i don't think we should question your credentials today. isn't it true you have a science degree from yale? what's that? >> bachelor of arts degree. >> is it a political science degree? >> yes, political science. >> so how do you get a bachelor of arts and a science? >> well, it's liberal arts. it's a bachelor. >> so it's not really science. so i think it's somewhat appropriate that someone with a pseudo sign degree is here pushing pseudo science before our committee today? >> are you serious? this is really a serious happening here? >> you know what? it is serious. you're calling the president's cabinet a kangaroo court. i'm calling this committee he's putting together a kangaroo

committee. why would he have to have a secret analysis of climate change? why does he need it to be a secret? >> let's get back to the science of it. >> but it's not science. you're not quoting science. >> oh my. republican congressman thomas massie and former secretary of state john kerry during a hearing on climate change. "rolling stone" posted the question, "was that the dumbest question in history?" and to that kerry replied, it's almost as if someone said congress has hit rock bottom" to which massie replies "hold my

beer." >> congressman has a masters from mit. he knows better. and kerry knows better. >> in response to your question, steve king has called in and hold my beer. >> we have mike barnicle, former treasury official steve rat per, washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay is with us, intelligence and ken dilanian, and we were going to

talk about mcauliffe wrestling an alligator but we have news. >> julian assange was arrested in london. wikileaks founder has been hold up there. >> so, i don't really follow the news and in my lineup you don't have to. the seen between on but i hadn't rahal approximately let's go to ken dilanian. >> i assume that you had but -- >> much closer than you i would seem but i think he's been

following this latest development closest to all of us. this has been ongoing since twen that but the president of ecuador that sean had repaed but a will and for all sorts of reasons, that his cat had been making a mess, that he had been skateboard nlgt halls, steeling wh. and we learned back in the wall that there were charges filed against assange, filed under seal, that was inadvert ntly revealed by mistake by the

scaramucci had been, you know, for the u.s. and britain to work out a way to get assange. we believe he will be extradited back to the u.s. the question is how are they going to get him out. embassy? ecuador just said enough with you, you're done, and the british police arrested him. >> this has been going on about a decade now, bradley and chelsea manning working to release those documents. >> wikileaks began as a transparency organization. and publishing those documents leaked by chelsea manning, who was in iraq at the time with the u.s. army. and at the time chime, and many

thidio and helicopter attack in iraq that drew allot of krit p criticism but it became clear the u.s. was getting closer to russia and there were never leaks that criticized the west and athor tate and then you get to the election, wikileaks was the recipient of leaked hacked democratic e. more than 130 times during campaign because they were publishing dnc air mats crushing with election interference effort and the u.s. intelligent

ram under it's not clear that it's also deals with the 2016 lks. >> so did they always consider assange to be a problem for the country? >> initially there was kate from freedom where he was wanted in connection from the to get hmm out of the country. now it seems sfchl they've seen more british police on the step of the ecuadorian extra city. they said he violated some of his terms and conditions of

living in the ecuador i didn't mean the isn't closed. i understand that sex clothes but it's either situaten or the unts that going get are aren't they great, willie? >> one of the best reporters ever. >> "new york times," "washington post." >> i was wondering where this was going. >> i don't know either if it makes you a. >> how did that end up? >> oh, well --

>> how, so -- >> jim: the good news is, joe, we have another six months to talk about brks i'll dress as about frrngs it's a date. >> okay, let's do it. everybody dresses as boris johnson. steve, the british government has realized that this is devastating financially. they understand they can't do this and yet the people are wanting them to do it. it's not a clean split down the parties. talk about what a nightmare this is for britain and what's next. >> part of why you see this deadline extended is because it's a mayor meyer to look, the

complication with brexit is there's no one position, there's three positions. there's stay, hard brexit and trying to found 351% that are for anything. >> jim: and these oo. by the way, we just got a tweet from congressman mssie why the wobd on the cover. he's very ring fwri sfrp snfrm.

>> it's going to be known as the black hole of brexit. >> exactly. we'll be following the breaking news throughout the show. now to the top story of the morning, am frm about ebb joined in to accuse the united states government of what he called spying on the trump campaign in 2016. >> oh, come on now. >> this despite lengthy declassification battles unp carter page after he left the campaign. but attorney general wellam barr told the senate he needs to exmove the issue. >> i think spying on a political campaign is a big deal. there are a lot of rules put in

place to make sure there's an adequate basis before our law enforcement agencies get involved in political surveillance. i'm not suggesting that those rules were violated but i think it's important to look at that. and i'm not talking about the fbi necessarily. pu intelligence agencies more broadly. >> so you're not suggesting, though, that spying owe kushd. >> well -- >> i think there was a spying did occur frvgts. >> is there anything to those investigations? >> i have no right now, about of fwrchl unfrm?

because i think the word spying could cause everybody in the cable news ecosystem to freak out and i think it's necessary for you to be precise with your language here. you normally are and i want to give you a chance to be especially precise here. >> i'm not sure of all the connotations of that word that you're referring to but unauthorized surveillance, i want to make sure there was no unauthorized surveillance. >> thank you. >> is that more appropriate in your mind? >> someone's been trumped. >> so, mike, so earlier i said last week and i think it's caught on that donald trump wanted his roy cohn, he got his roy cohn. even though barr doesn't really

feel it like roy cohn. that's why he got halfway out and ran back to shore, wasn't going to wrestle that alligator. but he makes an outrageous claim that ray cohn would make, the spy willing claim, after we all know about carter page and the pfizer -- and we all know who the pfizer judges in. we know they're in four, five fisa judges that supported this. you can almost see in his mind how do i answer this question so trump doesn't tweet at me, so i keep my job but still not make a jack ass of myself for life.

>> that's tough. >> that's tough. >> he better rethink it. >> in the beginning he was really making a fool of himself, humiliating himself, and then he started to clean it up a little built more at the end saying this is fine but i'm going to look into it. it's very interesting, very trumpian to, first of all, put out a summary and make conclusions that you know is doing the president's bidding, the type of summary that roy cohn would put out and then when people are on to you and you know you have to release that summary, now you throw more meat to the trump ecosystem. >> well, i mean, bill barr has become the gift that keeps on giving for donald trump. here's the headline of the day in "the washington post." this is the headline they've been waiting for in the white house. it reads "barr thinks u.s. spied

on trump. i spoke yesterday with two people who have known bill barr for 30 years. they are stunned at his verbal behavior over the past two weeks, up to and including yesterday but specifically the gratuitous interpretation that he quickly put on the mueller report without a conversation apparently with bob mueller before he made that statement, basically clearing the president -- >> can i just say this is what judges would call dicta. he draw as conclusion that is meaningless, just words, because he himself has said that donald trump can't get indicted. and if that's the case, then your job, mr. attorney general, is to do what mueller wanted him to do, pass it on to congress, but he wanted to poison the well. he wanted right-wing talkers to go out and blab for the last two

weeks and make fools of themselves before the report comes out. now the report has come out, he's thrown more red meat, which they just just can't and i talking about the trump political apparatus now, in their performance as meacham would love to say, after getting through the first 12 causes of the indian war -- by by the way he went left on yalta.

>> yalta, yalta, yalt company. it's a weak finisher. again, do these people do not think that there's such a thing as videotape. they do not think there is an end to all of this. donald trump may get away with this 12 months away from a campaign, but the 30-second, and this is just what barr is doing? it's all going to be shouted from the mountaintops. he's just making a few, he should talk to mat why is, high them all to see how this ends. >> lrp two head hon fchbl snchlk

on the campaign. you understand why donald trump sass no conclusion? you would hike to think f but here we are, ken dlan there is. anonymous sources saying the attorney general views spying and surveillance as one in the same and that he didn't mean to suggest that something what happened, only that he wanted to look into what happened. pu that cat is now out of the bag, heand to be clear spying is a rile it's what they pay agents

can nrnls and what he did was reckless at best and at worst it was throwing red heat moo f at the heart of this investigation. the ft p just before barr sat down on capitol hill yesterday, donald trump stood on the white house lawn and made his moment inflammatory comments to date about the it nm, saying it bordered on but, ken, didn't he say offer. mueller was honorable, that -- didn't he say?

about dozen peeksfch sfrrjs, though know they're about to get blindsided again so now the a.g. throws this red meat out. okay, yeah, i really wasn't accurate about that stuff but while they're paying attention to that -- >> shiny penny. >> -- let's start a new controversy. >> the a.g. said there were failures at the upper echelon of the fbi. in doing show he preempted t the -- fine, there's legitimate questions here that need to be answered. the inspector general -- all he had to say was i can't say

anything during the brew all right. keng, thank you. a suspect is in custody in connection with fires that broke out at three historically black churches in louisiana. a federal prosecutor announced last night that authorities had raise concerns about a possible racist moat of thrt. >> the pret is ls from and according to a report, the number of cases is now up to 465. >> ork committee's health committee ond snachblt, 2,000

people who live and work in brooklyn and do not evidence to be tracks nated within 50 minutes i'm tape. when if the we are getting a glim b the national science foundation released photo of the black hole called n and it was captured using a network of telescopes around the world. >> massie still thinks it's a toe nouchlt hechlt yes, we had it cred.

dunk how he got his name? >> no. >> rasle the bear skp zwlp and hook sflrm o we're getting our first manyage in london. we'll show you that just ahead. plus richard haas weighing sfms we'll will be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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a 2280 pound alligator? if i can wrestle an alligator, i sure as hell can wrestle the president and you'd pay money to watch that. >> gator! don't let gator lose, man. >> it's the best answer to the roger mudd question i've ever heard. i want to be president because i wrestled an alligator. >> terry mcauliffe referencing a stunt in 1980. >> look at gator. >> look at him! >> nobody on the set is allowed to call him anything but gator.

>> gator's fine. that's just a relief. >> you know, they could use, mike, somebody like gator. you know, because like yesterday they started -- democrats started talking about guns, right? so beto is like, oh, oh, i inherited guns but i left them in the attic and they are rusted. i never touched them. and then pete buttigieg said i've got an antique gun but it never worked and bernie sanders said i have an antique gun but it never worked. why are they all speaking irish? you have democrats across the midwest that want to feel comfortable voting for you. it doesn't mean you need to get an a.k.-47 and start shooting up

the sky. go to the gun range. it's a lot safer than eating the crap they have to eat at those iowa state fairs. get a trained instructor, take this many down to the range and maybe you'll learn a little bit about the issue and can relate to some of those people who voted for ballpark aobama and t may want to vote for you. >> it's also the language around tru trump. specifically yesterday there was an event that took place in washington, representative omar

referred to 9/11 about some things. come on, get real. get real. >> dan crenshaw did a great job raeting out to snl. >> pete davidson. >> pete davidson. he was tweeting about this yesterday. i didn't understand this because he works with her. it's so important i think personally for her to succeed, right? there have been some missteps, but there's something much bigger here, like going on. we don't want one of our first muslim women americans to blow up politically like this. i just wish she'd walk across the aisle and go, hey, let me tell you, this is why this is going to be offensive to people and i understand how you feel about israel but just can we just talk regularly about this?

>> and then maybe he can tweet we just had a talk and there's hope that this conversation will get us together. doesn't even have to say we talked and we -- there's just a different way of why tweet? >> and, by the way -- >> we're right there. it would be like me tweeting at you right now, sitting right here. >> they can have a dialogue back and forth. >> that's why they're in washington together. >> it's not for the -- >> it's for the audience. but congressman crenshaw is a good guy and he's think today so maybe he do what they do in washington. if you don't like shooting guns, that's like totally fine. it wouldn't hurt to you go to a range but if you're just beyond going to range, just don't say

it because you're afraid blue check marks are going to lash out against you if you shoot a gun. >> by the way, that the "new york times" art krl that is out because we all live in a bubble, steve. we live in a bubble where we hear what people are saying on twitter and you see that all day and suddenly you think that's how the world is thinking. this straw is offensive, i hate mother earth. would somebody get me a wood bowl that i can drink my latte out of, please. the key is screening the noise out to connect to the reagan democrats and also on the other side of it, not just white, working class democrats, they also lost because hillary didn't

bring out the obama coalition and that's also why they lost in wisconsin and michigan. a lot of black voters just said you know what? i'm not excited. i'm not going to vote, it won't change anything. >> there's no question the energy, the voice, whoever you want to describe it, many of which don't make sense and the more sensible people are breaking through and having a hard time being part of the conversationsi conversationsins, we're going to dive deep are into that a little bit later in the show. still ahead, steve rattner proves he has charts for anything.

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the last few days we've been talking about the latest in the college admission scandal. while harvard hasn't been officially tied to the scandal, new data is shining light on who gets into elite colleges and why. steve, these are your charts. take it away. >> i heard joe ask the question the other day of how do these coaches actually get these kids in, this other part of the story that doesn't get as much attention. but if you look at this data from harvard, i think you'll see some interesting things about how admission works in general at these schools. half raj has a very i rose from 6 to 34%. if you were on something called the dean and director's interest

list, which means you are rich or you are famous, your chances of getting into harvard go up to 42. if you are one of the relatively small number of kids that apply who is the child of a faculty at harvard, you have a 4 7% chance of getting it in. if you a recruited at laet, and he said everything down on me, which there was so interested. >> there as still enough money, prestige, being part of the ivy league to do it. >> one big piece of pushback. your middle within was there are

also from time to time people that come along that don't fit neatly into an s and specific po but there's some people that a dean will go be be, if this is the sort of person. >> you're smirking suggests you're skeptical been. >> i'm absolutely skeptical. let's look at who is actually in the bass. in that category, dean or director's interest prrn ffrmgts, a whatting 37% of the class at harvard had a close

relative that attended harvard pr pmt and getting more people with less means foo school, this is not just harvard. it's a survey of 80 of the most selected colleges going back to the class of 2000 over here. you can see what happens to the 1%, which is the black line which starts at around 10% and steadily rises to 11.5%. on the other hand, if you are person in the bottom 40% -- sorry. if you're the person in the bottom 40%, then you go from here down to here. so the schools are getting at the same time more wealthy, even as we are trying to make them more inclusive, more diverse, more representative of america. >> well, the thing is even wealthy parents will complain that when their children started

at a school it was $45,000 tuition and by the time they get out, it's $65,000 tuition. it's hard, even for some upper middle class parents to be able to atoward that's the real scandal and it has gone up like inflation. those people in the middle who don't qualify for enough aid have a problem. back to your point, willy, athletics is still impressive in the mott earn eke joe, a couple days before or people have even

applied in sm the first grass but the last bar shows why and went to the rowing coach. >> that's when you go prn. >> okay. we're continuing to follow this and the case involving the two actresses and other parents. coming up, president trump will meet with south kaek a ben gin money. er. we'll go around the world with richard haas next. th richard haas next.

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what are you saying about me over here? >> joining us now, the president of the -- >> you know you're not a legacy

and i've seen you hit a golf ball. >> author of "world in disarray" richard haas is here. >> seriously on our refrigerator mika has the "world in disarray" apron that you made for her. >> i do have that. that's actually true. i love it. i cook in it. >> so benjamin netanyahu looks like he's going to form a government. he's p.m. again. >> absolutely. this shows the decline of anything like a left in israel. >> how about a center? this guy's going to get indicted. >> he's going to be the transformational leader of modern israel. he will be truly consequential. by the time he's done, you will have a very different country and i think the prospect of a separate palestinian state ash two-state solution, will essentially be over. >> so i've always been offended by americans that try to hoist

their values on israel and try to explain what's best for the israeli people, so some of us don't understand why they would keep reelecting netanyahu. i don't because you'd think that they would want a lasting peace and he's certainly not ever going to do that. so what do the israeli people see in that netanyahu that the rest of the world doesn't? >> he's very successful with the economy he's been pretty good but more on the foreign policy. it's not obvious stlau an arab partner. he says rather says -- he is promoting a not a diplomatic solution but a military one. >> hamas a saying drive them into the sea. you're right, syrians right

there so are things as insecure now as they've always been? >> no. because in some ways, israel is relatively safe. the wall has worked, iraq is no longer a threat the way it was, iran the nuclear issue for the time being is under control. syria is more than consumed by what's going on. >> they've got sunni -- >> yes. >> the demographics are moving against israel and the real danger of bebe netanyahu is you have drift. again, a palestinian state is not simply a favor to the palestinia palestinians, it's a favor the israelis would make for themselves. >> the state department declared iran's revolutionary guard a

terrorist organization. what are the does it mean to make that declaration, to take this step? >> on one hand the i.r.g. do carry ou attacks. it places at risk those american soldiers. we have to ask ourselves is the appearance of calling out iran on this, is it worth it if it puts american soldiers in risk? in a lot of places look iraq, a lot of people would question it. >> katty kay. >> another one that hasn't got that much attention is libya and it it does seem to be getting more liberated and violent there. it was britain that led the air strikes against libya and fed to

the over kad if i, as we've watched out libya be under almost triple war. british politicians are so consumed by a single issue. >> brexit will end up diminishing the united kingdom and i believe locally will end up the northern kingdom. but in the meantime, it reduces our if not eliminates the band width in britain to play a global role. and the idea that we go in, get rid of gadhafi and there are no

real policies and i would say that we ought to think about it for venezuela because one day maduro will go. we don't want to have catastrophic success. we need to start arranging now for post events of a -- >> others are assaying this is a case for so what we be doing? is there trump administration doing welfare reform there opinion i would not be -- we need to use sanctions and put

pressure on the kpns. wasn't them off this financial support for the government, t k talk. >> all right, richard haas, thank you very much. steve cater in and catty kaye, thank you all as well. >> his book title, i like that. >> coming up, perhaps attorney general william barr was trying to appease the president. barr told lawmakers he thinks the government spied on dpt's 2016 campaign but offered no evidence. plus a growing number of rest igs administration in charge of the department and it's him. and we'll talk to the two 200

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every single thing about it. there were dirty cops. these were bad people. this was an attempted coup. this was an attempted takedown ar of a president. what i'm most interested in is getting started. hopefully the attorney general, he mentioned it yesterday, he's doing a great job getting started on going back to the origins of exactly where this all started. this was an illegal witch hunt and everybody knew it and they knew it, too, and they got caught. and what they did was treason. >> i think spying on a political campaign is a big deal. it's a big deal. there are a lot of rules put in place to make sure there's an adequate basis before our law enforcement agencies get involved in political surveillance. i'm not suggesting that those rules were violated but i think

it's important to look at that. i'm not talking about the fbi necessarily, but intelligence agencies more broadly. >> so you're not suggesting, though, is that spying occurred? >> i don't know -- well. >> i think spying did occur. yes, spying did occur. >> let me just say hows did pointing that the chief law enforcement officer of our country is going off the rails yesterday and today. he is the attorney general of the united states of america, not the attorney general of donald trump. >> good for nancy pelosi saying what we all know. the attorney general of america

shamed himself yesterday by throwing out a roy cohn-type charge. in case you're trying to figure out why donald trump would say after barr's letter came out that robert mueller ran an honorable investigation, said he's basically an honorable man and now he's freaking out, he's melting down, he's seeing the report part. he knows what's in the report. by the way, all of you people that took barr's letter and ran your victory laps, yay for our team, kept running around and screaming and pointing at everybody else, you're wasting a lot of energy and you're going

to look really, really dumb now. do you think he's seen it and he's acting differently now? the president of the united states, that should give -- i'd love to play poker against this guy because he's got the worst poke ar face in the history of american politics. claire mccaskill, i go back and i think about all the of people gloating after you had barr basically again playing roy cohn, something i haven't seen for weeks now, trump got his roy cohn. trump said he wanted roy cohn, he got a respected name that a lot of respected people vouched for and now he's being roy cohn, shaming himself yesterday by attacking judges and fbi, every bit as much as vladimir putin would and he's running interference as donald trump's personal lawyer.

>> and the weird thing about this, joe, is that they had a briefing in congress about the fbi, it was bipartisan, and everybody came out of the briefing understanding that the fbi had acted appropriately when they got information about foreign interference. >> when you say everybody, you mean republicans as well? >> yes. if they find out there is important interference going on around political campaigns, they're supposed to say, well, it a political campaign, we're won't identify anything -- >> cart page at the time of the feis a warrant no longer working for donald trump. >> correct. >> they had paul manafort -- >> by the way, paul and of

life -- correct. >> bob: and bar, this was a guy who understood the rule of law, understands there is a big difference between what the president wants and what the rule of law dictates. so now for him to be saying this stuff, to use the word spying, knowing that that is exactly what donald trump wanted to hear, he was playing to a crowd of one, which makes him no better than a bunch of the other idiots who have surrounded donald trump in terms of knowing what he was doing. >> he knew what he was doing. i'll read you a passage.

"mr. barr sees no technical difference between spying and surveillance." he wants you to know through union on mouse sources, that he had to say that. >> so, in order, he's talking there's just a normal investigation but can you call that spying -- >> as far as spying goes, you cannot get past the fact that they won't through four, five, feisia judges and, thos please, sop humiliating yourself and go to your neighbor's google machines. claire can tell you they're the best and they're the brightest and they're apolitical and they

are there and and, by the way, these fisa judges, meekia republicans, appointed by republicans. >> so let's get back to the mueller report, which you started out saying maybe he's seen it because this is such a change in behavior and attitude toward robert mueller. one problem with that, he doesn't read. he was asked had he seen it. ak, i have not read the mueller report. i won. as far as i'm concerned, i don't care about the he was talking

like a third-party dictator. put on your tape recorders here or whatever, you know, talking more like a mussolini than an american president. talking about treasonous and traitorous, things that american presidents have never, ever talked about when talking about the fbi and law enforcement personnel. >> presidents have never sounded like that. certainly republican help tifs have never said anything like that. i'm to try not insulting banana reno, of course he hasn't readth report but somebody's told him what to question about the

briefing. >> i haven't read it. >> he never said whether he'd been briefed ornd. not that it matters, he also told reporters that he knew nothing about a payment to stormy daniels. he lied when he got everybody together around wrote that lying document about why they had that secret meeting with the russians. >> two days ago he demured on whether or not he briefed the white house on this. previously the attorney general's office said, no, they hadn't met with the white house on this but then he wouldn't answer the question the question whether or not the president has been directly or indirectly briefed on this. claire, i'm curious what you think of the idea of redactions and full the senate get the full you unredacted support, we understand publicly when the rest of us may have see it there

may be deductions but would you want to see it? >> first of all, you have to understand that members of congress can't see things all the time and this notion that everybody leaks, both in the senate and the house, the chair and the ranks, they understand the responsibility of not seeking source and methods. they have to be very careful and they do that all the time. so of course they should see the whole thing. of course they should see the whole thing. by the way, i mentioned this before but i want to mention this again. did you notice when barr was testifying, he said "the redactions on the first pass," almost like embracing the idea that all these redactions weren't going to stand. he said on the first pass we're going to color code them and explain them. he almost knows, i think at this point, that the courts are going

to end up weighing in on how much of this will be redacted or there will be a back and forth. because why would he use that phrase? it's like they're going to start with redakking as much as they can congress deals -- the intel committee deal, the armed services committee, they all deal with classified information. you can't just deal with barr and sap i know you can handle classified information in all other realms but you can't handle it in a realm pertaining to whether the 2016 election interfered with after the record and sorry, your routine is not

going to work. >> it's not going well. new state tollsthe 20 new hampshire democrat being votes are followed by bernie sanders at. f with 11% just slightly ahead of elizabeth warren at the%. >> let's go back to that really quickly. i just have to say i saw elizabeth warren on tv last night, i will tell you i still don't understand why she's not connect he's not.

. this is a myselftory to me why elizabeth warren is not doing better in sm of these early calls. >> especially after not just coming out early but laying out a policy agenda. >> she's telling people what she's going to do. >> exactly. >> unlike hillary clinton's campaign, she know what is she stand for. y livers so i don't know why she didn't doing betters are in new hampshire if she's going to have any chance of denomination, right? >> she commonwealth kpm that's a

bill had your murmansk. >>. biden in the lead with 26%, sanders at 18 and kamala harris at 17%, followed by butte judge and warren, both polls ton communicate while biden was do claim, if you are a sitting state in nrm ands that sort of seen as your key to victory again, there's another person, kamala harris, they say she had a great pats is.

. see sheechs that's 1817. that's a little bit different than the situation. >> how would you feel if you were running for president in -- >> it wouldn't surprise me. i've had $75 million of negative advertising in missouri. >> that's another thing, she has not yet. >> she's never had negative. how many of these candidates have never been in a mono to mono political fight so i think time will tell. i think her being second, collapse dunn belope you're

going to sm f and so why doesn't 4% -- "vanity fair" told us he was the new bobby kennedy basically. what does beto need to do, other than get me to pronounce his name right between now and the primaries, how does he get any ak he's had an incredible media right. f a lot more interesting be permanent the way donald trump broke through against 16 other candidates. >> you beat mayor pete,s that

how. f if you want to look it. somebody who can it the it him, it not beto. i thinks goes sfrchl he got a lot of press because he did f. >> he lost. >> i know that. he came close and i'll never forget the violent moment where he talked about him kneel be before the national anthem. it was really something, it was courageous and it was authentic. that's why he got a lot of attention, not just because he's cute. >> on a debate stage, he's not going to saying in, if he comes off a little award times if be

it's about him. everybody wants it to be about frrchl he's going to sit on the top these polls as well as lees is permanent and the hugs and the touching and all that temperature. a problem. i want to be clear on beto and up said what he did is extraordinary, i know they rng zrnl and somebody that is going fur

furng. because yran a tough senate race and lost. >> i'm just glad you called it mid life. >> somebody told me i was having a mid life crisis. i said, yeah, i'm waiting. you know what i'm saying this is the wrong time for that pose. >> i agree with you about mayor pete. he is -- >> of time he says anything, it working, stch. >> if the ratio is 50 lsh 50, woe can't afford that. >> what's.

he hit a home run of tame? he in. >> well, iin dr grrm thank sbrm congressman smallwood sass his. we'll talk about coming up. we'ltal lk about coming up or what i witnessed, who m but i can tell you liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i only pay for what i need. oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no... only pay for what you need. liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ grab those command picture hanging strips and let's make it work! they're tool free and they hold strong. or change your mind damage free. like a pro. command. do. no harm.

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>> so, eric, what you're telling us is your parents aren't watching us but you'll send them a tape. >> exactly. >> your story, your approach to this is just so refreshing because you do go on fox news and you tell other democrats they should go on fox news. bill mahr had a wonderful monologue a few weeks ago about don't preach to the choir, go to fox news, tell people what you

stand for. what's your reactions -- have skrats skoaled you for going on pock? >> they're le hale have --s tha noise to me. there's always going to be haters. i given to fox news yorks agree with you but i i see you sfrnl a lot of people may not staunt i had a guy come up to the you remember -- love for you to talk to miy republican club.

talk about how people respect that. people respect that you're willing to go out and try to meet them halfway. >> went to a gun shop and the guy brought some of his best customers. he didn't want to see it affect his sales spm that's a resource injury. he think. $ $ $ and we didn't agree on much. >> eown. sffrmt they want it to be

effective. it's not good pore them or (on the biggest issues, health care, education, hem been flchl. for all with a banning and buying back assault. . ffrmt so how are you going o break through the seend sfuchbts, i know why people work hard and what they expect it to add up to but being able to go to college and come out and work as a prosecutor, i've seen all the people that the and american dream not adding pup but see as

washington that can't find cures for people who need it, that can't solve this climate change issue. then when it comes to experience, i've been in congress through seven year. and what that means on the inside. so on day one. from s did that man an frn and you want to keep your own planned, keep.

sfrm he seek sfchlt sfp. he has three kids and he's coming to me and he's not saying that his kids have a.l.s. >> so you don't for farce as brp heem peacekeeper pfrmt head scratcher for me, the notion that a democratic candidate running for president, that it's a negative. cam la harris was elected

prosecutor and spent time in the courtroom. i pauls,aren't you worried that we are going so far o pfrp someone who is trying to keep communities safety as is neff f and i'm proud for self-jrmt testimony f a family justice court, too. we elected the first woman d.a. just recently, too. when it comes to russia, the reason i care so much about what

they did, putting the prosecutor hat on, i have looked at the evidence. i feel very strongly this wasn't just about transactionally helping someone who would help you back and taking it sfrk the idea that if my dad worked as a would be be that why et so rmt did attorney general barr ma many -- he's the opposition of sessions, who was recused. he's completely imif n 136789

who wrote basically a letter to donald trump basically proving that he was -- he was terribly compromised and should never have anything to do with mueller or beyond. >> who shouldn't have opinion confirmed. once he was confirmed, he should have recused himself. and that letter, which was 15 pages longer than the letter that he wrote describing a two-year investigation with 2,800 speen, a 500 saefrt search warrants, 37 indictments, he has no business being on this case. i won't accept anything about this investigation until we hear from bob mueller. >> are you going to demand to see the report? >> yes. we parade. ffrm and what woo have seen is a isn't and has a very, very difficult relationship with the

troous to say the least. how do you break through on that level to show americans, to show voters, that you can do this? >> i can add states, born in iowa, born in the south, married to a girl from southern indian and elected m one of the moe diverse states in the country. and being a working class candidate, i can look those people in the eyes who really generally wanted a candidate who would increase wages, bring down health care costs and give gritz a nut fudge. what they wanted mostlies right, dismiss the guy who has ut erte. >> just turn the "w" upside down. >> you needed it. he'll say you were wait out

there on trip's campaign to russia. you were asked by chris mat use is you believe that president trump still is an agent kof can be when you say agent, what do you mean by that? >> if he wasn't taking orders, he wouldn't take the interpreter's note. he would release the report that said he's 100 percent exonerated with. why does he act so suspiciously with rab with the way that he's acting the way that he's leeing

and we should. is the highest standard in the law. it's not the same of more likely than not. i went on fobs news the same day that the molet case could happen and they were expressing, from he was in charge with the crime, that you have the same gripe had i it all right. congress ma'am tar tab and in our next hour, we'll speak with another democratic 2020 hopeful, john pb federal budget sflrchl it's i.c.o. >> con srt. >> she can see with him.

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okay. so here's the thing -- >> what's the thing? >> that's what alisa monica

says, give me your 2020 final thought for this segment. go. >> breaking through is a challenge. >> it is. >> i think keeping an eye on low donors is a big deal because you're going to have to sustain this operation over months and months. the burn rates matter for everybody out there. that means how much of your money you're spending in your process of getting 6% of the vote, current polls. and finally, my advice to them is if russia calls you, call the fbi. >> exactly. thank you. good advice. >> biden look like he weathered this? >> i think it probably helped him. >> with rank-and-file voters? and, by the way, the "new york times" article yesterday would suggest it probably helped him. people rolled their eyes going are you kidding? >> that's a much bigger topic. still ahead, beto o'rourke posted video on instagram of his trip to the dentist, elizabeth

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all right. joining us now, director of the polling at the institute of politics at harvard university, and the president and ceo of the mascenic group, and director of barack obama's 2012 campaign. >> i was about to start a story off camera and you know the rule, we have to finish our story. >> you're taking a group of 12 people to see the red sox, right? queen elizabeth comes in 1990

and after what hours of baseball queen alelizabeth was asked, "s what do you think about baseball" and she said, well, nothing much happened, did it? it's an american game. >> i've done this before. they'll love the food, the sausages at fenway park. >> we have the story that said don't listen to the blue check marks, get out and listen to the voters because that's a very small insular bubble. >> the people who regularly tweet are 2% african-american whereas the primary electorate is 24% african-american, right?

>> that's a good start. we could end right there but keep going. >> people who are normal democrats but aren't on twitter only have a 50% name watch regu think aco is the democratic nominee for president. but it's just not a big deal. they're focused on what all other voters are focused on which is economy, which is education and how to make their lives better. and with our 917 candidates they haven't started focusing on it yet. >> mika, i saw half of democrats -- half after democrats think political correctness is a problem mpl. >> you brought up an amazing point that i'd love to hear more about from the group but you thought that the actual joe biden controversy on a grand scale helped him. if you look maybe in the blue check mark or the different ways of looking at opinion you would think it was really hurting him. >> i think first of all, america kind of knows who this guy is.

>> that's right. >> they know that he, you know, sometimes says things that are awkward and that somehow his desire to connect with people can be awkward and you flow, certa -- know invading people's personal space is not a good thing. it's not about being predatory and i think most americans get that and i think most democrats get that and the fact that they went after him in the media is just incessant for days and days. i think people just said stop it. just stop it. i think it helped him. >> so you have some great polls about the people again active on social media and the ideology of the democratic party. >> every poll whether statewide or national, joe biden has an advantage. among those who are very active on social media he's down by 7. among those less active on social media he is up by 7. >> that backs up what you said. that's incredible.

>> let's talk big picture about joe biden. a guy you know well, helped campaign a little bit probably in 2012. what do you see a his challenge? he's not even in the race yet and even through the controversy he's held at the top of these polls. what does he have to do to stay there? >> i think john and i would agree that his early lead is mostly about name id and people having good association with him being with barack obama and i think husband challenge is going to be raising the kind of money that he's going to need in this race. he came out of this well, but it took him four days to respond. in today's check mark world you can't spend -- you can't take that long. >> hold on. >> he's got to run a modern day campaign. >> maybe you can. maybe the point of this is that you immediately respond to the blue check marks and you go

deeper into the trouble. the blue check marks are not the rest of america. so maybe not even responding at some point is something to consider when you look at these facts here. >> yeah, i get you, but i think in a race against that many democrats back and forth, you can't do that for as long -- and he knows this. he's going to build a campaign structure, he's going to do all this. the other challenge for joe is what is his future message. what is the economic issue that claire and i know from being missouri and montana, these democratic voters are going to want to hear and it's not going to be enough to be uncle joe. you'll have to have a vision for the country. >> absolutely. >> i think it's brilliant. this campaign, even though i'm sorry, it would feel good for me and feel good for a lot of americans, it can't be about a restorati restoration. it can't be about how we all felt watching the john mccain funeral or the george h.w. bush funeral. it's got to be about the future. >> the millennial and genz

didn't represent 30% of all voters in the next election. we know what an important role they played in 2018 but when i get off of twitter i hear republicans who care about climate change and i hear democrats who believe that health care is right but they're just not sure we shouldn't have insurance companies and they're concerned about their own personal situation so there's a lot more gray out there in america than what the blue check or the black and white version of twitter might otherwise indicate. >> as we look at that screen with about 18 people and growing we know there will be over 20 candidates. who jumps out at you in that crowded field as someone who may be able to join joe biden at the top. >> kamala harris. she's going to be an early favorite. we then go right into california which is her backyard. she should be able to do well int. you know, the early -- the way

democrats have changed map and moved big states to the front means money is even more important than it used to be which is not good for american politics but it is what it is. it's going to take 150 or $200 million to get where you need to be and there's only six or seven candidates that can get there. if she were a stock right now i'd buy her. >> likely democratic voters showing almost 40% of themselves consider themselves to be liberal. 27% moderate. this is a bit different than some of the polls that suggest that democrats want a more moderate candidate. what's that mean? >> the difference there is that among those who are on twitter they're 10% more liberal. i think democrat primaries are looking for ways to modernize the way in which democrat capitalism works and what that means is how that connects to health care, how that connects to education. looking at the big structural

barriers that are preventing the next generation from achieving the american dream that so many ba baby boomers were able to attain. >> the number i think is more important, 61% of democrats say the most important issue is who can beat donald trump. donald trump is a unifying factor in the democratic party and people are going to look at these candidates and say to your point, can you win? can you have a future message that beats did because this is a crisis and we've got to get rid of this guy. >> thank you both for being on this morning. coming up, former colorado governor john hickenlooper joins the conversation. we'll also be joined by democrat democratic senator joe manchin who questioned william barr. >> he slot a gun, by the way. >> and julian assange has been arrested in london. he was removed from the ecuadorian embassy a short time

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kay. and we want to go right to the breaking news this morning. wikileaks founder julian assange under arrest in london. he was taken into custody at the ecuadorian embassy where he's been holed up for years after that country with drew his asylum. let's go right to ken on this. why was the asylum lifted overnight? >> reporter: it's not entirely clear, but the president of ecuador tweeted that assange had repeatedly violated diplomatic convention and they've withdrawn his asylum. there have been reports for some time that assange had outliffed his welcome there in the embassy for all sorts of reasons including that his cat was making a mess and stealing wifi so the ecuadorians were getting sick of having him there but there's more sere warehouse issues at play. there is a grand jury investigation into assange in the eastern district of virginia and we learned back in the fall that there were charges filed against assange filed under seal

that was inadd ver dentally revealed by mistake when a lawyer put assange's name in a filing by accident. but ever since then it's been pretty clear that the plan has been, you know, for the u.s. and britain to work out a way to get assange. we believe that he will be extradited back to the u.s. that's certainly what our sources are suggesting here. the question i had in my mind was how are they getting him out of the embassy. ecuador just simply said enough with you, you're done and the british police walked in and arrested him. >> just to refresh viewers, if you go back to bradley manning and chelsea manning working with assange and leaking those documents. through the presidential campaign not directly linked but wikileaks working allegedly with russians to get the dnc e-mails during that campaign. >> yeah, so wikileaks began as a transparency organization and publishing those documents

leaked by chelsea manning who was in a roi iraq at the time wh the u.s. army. basically holding governments accountable and many news media organizations published those materials. there was a helicopter in iraq that drew lot of criticism but over the years it became clear that wikileaks was growing closer to russia. there were never leaks that criticized authoritarian governments and at some point the u.s. government even during the obama administration began concluding that wix kileaks auz acting as an arm of the russian intelligence. and wikileaks was the recipient of leak hacked e-mails and they were publishing dnc e-mails that

were embarrassing to the democrats. and then the u.s. intelligence committee waited and said that was not by accident. they knew what they were doing. they were acting as an instrument of this russian interference effort. this investigation we believe dates back to the earlier leaks of classified information. >> katty, did the british government long consider assange to be a menace in their own country? >> he's always been a problem for them because what they wanted is to get him out of the country. there was that case from sweden where he was wanted in connection with sex crimes and the swedish government wanted him. the question was how to get him from the ecuadorian embassy to heathrow airport to get him out of the country. now it seems we've had a buildup of police outside of the embassy. reporters say they have seen more british police on the steps of the ecuadorian embassy so we

were wondering whether something like this was going to happen. the embassy fed up with him. they said he violated some of his conditions of living in the embassy. his internet use was taken away from him. he was trying to use it and it seems like the ecuadorians in the end were fed up and handed him over to british police. the question is now what happens to him. the swedish have rescinded his case for him. it's either sweden or the united states. more likely the united states is going to get hold of him. >> so you know, we've got great newspapers in america. i just -- aren't they great, willie? just great reporting. >> the best reporters ever. "new york times," washington post. >> i'm wondering where this is going. >> i don't know either katty. >> they don't cover british news that much so how do you guys end

up resolving brexit? >> oh. >> there's nothing in here, but i know you had to resolve it by now. >> the good news is, joe, we have another six months to talk all about brexit. isn't that fun? i'm so excited. and it ends on halloween so you can dress up for halloween. >> that's beautiful. who i will dress -- i'll dress up as boris johnson. >> october 31st, it's a kadate. >> steve, the british government has realized that this is devastating financially. they can't -- they understand -- they can't do this. and yet the people are wanting them to do it, it's not a clean split down the parties. talk about what a nightmare this is for britain and what's next. >> well, part of why you see this deadline extended is because it's a nightmare for all

of europe really. britain obviously in particular, but this is not a good thing for europe either, not just economically but italy cozying up to the chinese and having its own set of issues and there's a lot of fear that brexit could be the beginning of something else that happens after that. the complication is there's not one, not two positions like leave or stay, there's three positions. right? there's stay, there's a soft brexit and a hard brexit and you cannot get the majority of people for any one of these ideas. and thigh go round and round trying to find 51% trying to find anything. after two years of allegations from the president of the united states and members of congress about wiretaps and spies, yesterday, the nation's top law enforce mts officer joined in to accuse the united states government of what he called spying on the trump campaign in 2016.

>> barr, barr, come on, barr. >> this despite lengthy declassification battles uncovering surveillance on carter page after he left the campaign but attorney general william barr told the senate he needs to explore the issue. >> i think spying on a political campaign is a big deal. it's a big deal. a lot of rules put in place to make sure there's an adequate basis before our law enforcement agencies get involved in political surveillance. i'm not suggesting that those rules were violated, but i think it's important to look at that. and i'm not just -- i'm not talking about the fbi necessarily, but intelligence agencies more broadly. >> so you're not suggesting though that spying occurred? >> i don't -- well, i guess you could -- i think there was --

spying did occur. yes, think spying did occur. >> have you any evidence that there was anything improper in those investigations? >> i know specific evidence that i would cite right now. i do have questions about it. >> i think when the attorney general of the united states uses the word spying, it's rather provocative and in my view, unnecessarily imflam to . inflammatory. do you want to rephrase what you're doing because i think the word spying could cause everybody in the cable news ecosystem to freak out and i think it's necessary for you to be precise with your language here. you normally are and i want to give you a chance to be especially precise here. >> i'm not sure of all the connotations of that word that you're referring to, but unauthorized surveillance. i want to make sure there was no

unauthorized surveillance. >> okay. thank you. >> is that more appropriate in your mind? >> someone's being trumped. >> so mike, so early i would -- you know, i said last week and i think it's caught on that donald trump wanted -- even though barr doesn't really feel it like roy cone did. he knows what he's saying is unbelievably reckless and you can see in his mind barr going okay, how do i answer this question so trump doesn't tweet at me, so i keep my job, but still not make a jackass of myself for life. >> that's tough. >> bill barr has become the gift that keeps on giving for donald trump. here's the head line of the day in the "washington post."

here's the headline they've been waiting for. barr thinks u.s. spied on trump. i spoke yesterday with two people who have known bill barr for 30 years. they are stunned at his verbal behavior over the past two weeks up to and including yesterday. but specifically, the gratuitous interpretation that he quickly put on the mueller report with other conversation apparently with bob mueller before he made that statement that would basically clearing the -- >> this is what judges would call dicta. he draws a conclusion that is meaningless. just words because he himself has said that donald trump can't get indicted. a president can't get indicted and if that's the case, then your job, mr. attorney general, is to do what mueller wanted him to do. pass it on to congress, but he wanted to poison the well. he wanted right wing talkers to

go out and blab for the last three weeks and make fools of themselves, he told you so before the report comes out. now the report is coming out, he's showing more red meat which they just can't help taking and they're making fools of themselves again. they did the first half of the meeting and then they had to back off by the end of the hearings. >> but in their terms and i'm talking about the trump political ap rparatus now, thei terms on their grounds, it's working. >> still ahead on "morning joe," the college admissions scandal is shining a bright light on how some kids get into elite schools. it helps to ace the sats but as steve rattner will show us it's hardly the only way to get into the ivies. "morning joe" is back in a moment. for your heart...

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all right. the last few days we've been talking about the latest in that college admissions scandal and while harvard hasn't been officially tied to the scandal, new data from on going affirmative action lawsuit is shining light on who gets into elite colleges and why. steve, these are your charts, take it away. >> i heard joe say i asked the question the other day how do these coaches get these kids in. but if you take a look at this data from harvard which came out in the course of the lawsuit i think you'll see interesting things about how admissions works in general at these kinds of school. harvard has a roughly 6% average acceptance rate. incredibly selective. however, if you were a legacy, had a close relative that went to harvard your chances of getting into harvard rose to 34%. if you were on something called

the dean and director's interest list which means you are rich or you are famous, your chances getting in to harvard go up to 42%. if you are a relatively small number of kids who apply who is the child of a staff member of harvard you have a 47% chance of getting in and if you are a recruited athlete, the number is 86%. >> and that's what i don't understand. out of everything, i just don't understand that. >> well -- >> why there is so much emphasis made. >> on money. >> to recruited athletes. >> but there is no money in -- alabama it makes sense because the program makes $100 million a year. harvard football is not making any money. >> there's still enough money and prestige being part of the ivy league to do it. >> can i just really quickly, your middle one was the dean or director's interest list.

i would suggest, and sure, that may be, hey, you know, doing a lot of favors for a lot of people. there are also people that come along that don't fit neatly into an sat, you know, which my bigger criticism of elite colleges is they didn't accept people like mika and me and there's sometimes people have emotional iqs so we didn't have that going for us, but a dean will go the numbers don't line up but this is the sort of person i really want in our school. >> there are probably some of them in there, but i think the vast preponderance of them are in a different category. >> your smirking suggests you're skeptical. >> i'm slightly skeptical. let's look at who's in the class. they are roughly 10% in that category, dean or director's interest list. 12% recruited athletes and a whopping 37% of the class at harvard had a close relative who attended harvard, they are

legacies, so it doesn't leave a lot of room for the rest. and then lastly, you can take a look at what's happening to the nature of student bodies. we talk a lot about equal opportunities and getting more people with less means into schools. this is a survey of 80 of the most selective colleges going back to the classroom about 2,000 over here and you can see it started -- you can see what happens to the 1% which is the black line which starts at around 10% and then it steadily rises to 11.5%. on the other hand, if you are a person in the bottom 40%, sorry, if you're a person in the bottom 40%, then you go from here down to here. and so these schools are getting at the same time more wealthy even as we are trying to make them more inclusive, more diverse, more representative of america. >> the thing is, even wealthy parents will complain that when

their children started at a school it was $45,000 tuition and by the time they get out it's $65,000 tuition. like, it's hard even for some upper middle class parents to afford to be able to send their kids to these schools or these kids that go in but do i really want to have that kind of debt coming out? >> that's the real scandal here, the cost of college is outrageous. it needs to be lowered. >> it has gone up way faster than inflation and if you have very, very modest means you can get a full scholarship. if you're very, very wealthy you're okay. but those people in the middle have a problem. but back to your question, athletics are still important in the ivy league. they view it as prestige, maybe some amount of money and you end up in the situation where -- and this gets back to the comment you made joe, a couple days ago when the coaches can wave people in and then you find out they're

getting in before people have even applied. >> in that first graph, but the last bar shows why people are taking pictures of their children on rowing machines and presenting to the rowing coach. >> that's why when you're going to have a scandal like this, you want to find another door in, the door in is through athletics. coming up on "morning joe," our second presidential candidate of the morning. we've already heard from eric swalwell and up next john hickenlooper joins the conversation. "morning joe" is back in three minutes. "morning joe" is back in three minutes. nothing says spring like fresh flowers, so let's promote our spring travel deal

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the former governor of colorado in 2017. john hickenlooper you're back. >> i'm back. >> you're ready for the question. are you ready for it? here we go. are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party? wait, that's not the right

question. hold on a second. so are you a capitalist? >> i think the answer is yes. i am -- but you know, more than that i'm an entrepreneur. that's the best part of being a capitalist and i started 20 businesses, created 1,000 jobs. i understand how this system works, but the point i was trying to make is capitalism right now isn't working for america. >> that's our -- the next question that's so important. talk about the failings of capitalism and -- because again, this is a safe thing for capitalists to do. alan greenspan even said income disparity is the greatest threat to american capitalism. so looking at what's gone wrong, what's the greatest challenge to american capitalism and what's the reform we need now more than ever? >> well, we're a start but first i'd say over the last 40 years if you look, we have -- it's

amazing. we had 81,000 trade organizations that each have a lobbyist so they're constantly working to help their sand and gravel association, whoever, but i would say the greatest challenge is really skills and we have the last department of labor information showed there were 7.2 million unfilled jobs, only 6.3 million people looking and the real issue, we don't have the skills. and think about this. 70% of our kids aren't going to get a four-year degree. >> let me stop you there. bill clinton, i remember he's sludging around new hampshire talking about a new economy. and here we are in 2019, people are talking about the same thing. he was talking about retraining and skills, you're talking about it now. why haven't we done more over those 30 years, 25, 30 years? >> i think that's a fair question. you know, when i went out to colorado as a geologist i got

laid off. the thing that the department of labor did for me was give me a two-hour seminar on how to write a job application and an application letter to try to be a geologist again when everybody was losing their jobs. we've got to see automation dislocate our work place like never imagined and we've got to see who's going to lose not just their job, but their profession and begin training them before the giant transformation takes place. >> president trump has begun to make the case and he will make the case that the economy is humming along, that unemployment is low, the stock market is doing well, wages are on the rise, not high enough yet, but that things are moving in the right direction. what will you say to him when he says that? >> i'll say that just because we have record corporate profits doesn't mean america is strong. >> what about unemployment being low though? >> well, again, right now we've got 7.2 million -- 6.3 million

looking, 7.2 million jobs that are unfilled. we don't have the skills and as close as i've seen he's done nothing to begin training people so they can take advantage of this new -- the 21st century jobs. we've got a universe of community colleges all across the country. they are perfectly poised to be able to give workers the training they need. think about it. 70% of our kids are never going to get a four-year degree. we need to give them the skills and we have the structure there waiting to happen and business, when i talk to businesses and community colleges they're happy to invest money, loan executives, if they can get workers with the skills they need, businesses want to be part of the solution. >> so why aren't those two things being connected? a lot of people agree with you. community college, things like that should be helping retrain and find new jobs for people from the old economy. why isn't that happening in your estimation? >> that's a fair question. i mean, i think it's a classic -- it's not sexy enough,

it doesn't rise to top of the table. one of the reasons i'm running is i believe i'm someone that has a long history of actually bringing people together and looking at things differently and getting things done. and this is one of our top priorities is to say how do we get that huge number of people that have been kind of left behind, not kind of, have been left behind, how are we going to get them the skills so they can participate in this new emerging economy. >> some people have said that you're a moderate. and some of the people who have said that use that as a negative term. do you own it? >> well, now i've learned that i'm going to have to own all the labels. generally i -- i move away from labels because i think they get in the way and they kind of compartmentalize. labels if i'm a moderate, i'm extreme moderate, they play a

role but they often distract us and i think when i'm in someone's living room in high what or new hampshire and i hear about what their greatest fears are, what their hopes are, it's not a question of whether you're a moderate or an extreme visionary, it's really a question about who's going to get thing done and i think that's what i did in colorado. we got almost universal health care coverage, we were able to get the oil and gas industry to sit down and negotiate methane regulations. those are the things that matter when you talk to them in their homes. >> are you usually identified as a moderate? >> yes, i am. >> how do you break through the field? there are 20, 21 candidates. there are going to be more than that. you know, you know how to work with the republicans, you know how to work across the aisle. is that something that the democratic base wants this year?

>> well, i think the democratic base d-- they've always been a big tent and've been impressed when i'm in south carolina or new mexico, they want someone who's gotten things done and i think as we get further into this election people are going to be judged more on what they've done than what they are saying or what they're promising. >> what was your reaction to what attorney general barr said yesterday about the possibility of the obama administration pieing on donald trump? >> i think it's a distraction. you know, it sound like something that was a late night phone call perhaps between the attorney general and the president, i don't know. i think it's a distraction. >> and do you agree that vladimir putin tried to influence, tried to sway the 2016 contest? >> well, certainly there's -- i think from all that i can understand and i take the media at their word and i look at

the -- i mean, some of our top intelligence officers are convinced it one just freelancers. this was a concerted effort on behalf of a large number of people and that probably goes right up to putin. i accept that. >> let me ask you broadly within the democratic party, there were many progressives and many democrats believe it is long past due for a woman to be president of the united states or for a person of color to be president of the united states especially given they believe the election was taken from hillary clinton who should have been the first woman in their view to be president of the united states. how do you answer that criticism? it's not a criticism of you but it's a belief that a lot of progressives hold that it is time for a woman to be president. >> sure. and just about hillary clinton. i think it's fair to point out that she had the foreign government interfering in election for the first time in history, she was the first woman candidate of a major party to run for president. she had the fbi come out ten days ahead of time and make misleading statements against her. she had the entire deck stacked

and she still won the popular vote and came close to winning the electoral college so i don't think we should hold her up -- >> she's not president so people feel it's time for a woman to be president. what do you say to that? >> i've always celebrated the diversity of the democratic party. i have a set of experiences both in the private sek soctor as a restaurant owner and a small business person. i've been able to bring people together and get things done and i think that's part of what american people also want is they're going to -- they want somebody who's a doer. and that's what i spent my whole life being. >> thank you so much, governor. hope you'll come back. >> of course. thanks for having me. >> all right. govern nor john hickenlooper. and coming up next, attorney general barr suggesting that spying on the presidential campaign was not the only controversial thing he said in a senate hearing.

we'll play his comments on not defending obamacare in court. joe manchin will be with us next. e manchin will be with us next i switched to liberty mutual,

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i disagree strongly with the department's decision not to defend the rest of the aca. >> the rationale for that is that it is a defensible and reasonable legal position given that that was the decision of the district court and the position of four justices on the original nfib case. >> i'm really surprised by the answer because the supreme court did uphold the law. the aca, and now the attorney general is saying we will not defend it. >> at the end of the day, i felt that this was a defensible legal position to take.

>> when i worked there in two different administrations attorneys general did stuff that was against their political instinc instincts. i remember almost throwing up when we had to defend the don't ask, don't tell policy for example, but we did it because we felt it was our duty. the constitution requires the president to faithfully execute the laws, not to gut them and this attorney general is just wantonly gutting laws like the affordable care act. >> attorney general william barr yesterday defending the administration's position not to defend any parts of the affordable care act. a quote defensive legal position is not the standard for the doj to abandon the defense of a federal law. it's now a member of the appropriations committee which conducted yesterday's hearing with the attorney general, democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia. joe, it's always great to see you, buddy. how are you doing? >> fine, we haven't been on for a while. what happened?

>> yeah. you know, spring break. come on. >> spring break. okay. >> so anyway, can you believe that? >> hope all is well with you and the family. hope everybody is good. >> everybody's good. thank you. so joe, i know trump won your state by about 800 points but there are a lot of people in west virginia that defend on the affordable care act. there are a lot of people in west virginia that depend an medicaid and depends on donald trump keeping his word that he made in 2016. he's just not keeping it so where does that put the good people of west virginia. >> i wouldn't be standing here if it wasn't for that issue and the way they've attacked with no way to throw it out, no way of helping 800,000 elderly people or people for the first time getting mental illness treatment, getting opioid

addiction treatment, all the things that we're trying to get back into a productive economy and society and trump won by 43 points in my state. he's still very popular in my state. i won a state that basically with an r 43 and my good friend claire there knows these are extremely hard. why would you throw that -- when john mccain came out and voted and put his thumb down, joe, he didn't do that because he thought it was a great piece of legislation. he knew that we could fix it in a bipartisan way and the process wasn't working. that's all john was saying. we're not throwing it out because we can repair it. >> the you talked to any republicans? because i've been hearing republicans since 2010, i made no secret of the fact i wasn't for the affordable care act at the time. but i said at the time republicans -- >> the man date was the problem. >> the republicans need to come up with a plan.

joe, that was ten years ago. they still don't have a plan. >> they voted 56 times to repeal it without anything to replace it. >> have you heard any republican come forward with a plan that would take care of the good people of west virginia? >> well, susan collins, my dear friend, is helping me. we're working together, we always do and we're going to reintroduce the reinsurance bill. and patty murray have a great piece of legislation that would help repair that and reduce the rates for the private payers who are getting squeezed in the middle can reduce it by 30 to 40%. this is asinine caught up in a political fire storm. i've told the president many times i said mr. president, you can fix this. why don't we call trump repair care. you can fix it. let us fix it and put it in place. now they're talking about all these ideas that people have, we can't even fix what's in front of us let alone start over from

nothing. >> senator, like you, i am surrounded by people i grew up with who voted for donald trump against their best interest. people in unions, firefighters, police officers, please take us to west virginia. take us to cabin creek, explain briefly, what's the magic here? what resonates with them? >> mike, i'll tell you one thing, i've tried. i go everywhere i can and say come on, guys. they say well, they like -- they just basically think he's going to be there fighting for values that he has and he thinks that basically making america great again, these were all people that made america. these are mine workers, factory workers these are people in the hard labor making this country great and feel like we've abandoned them. people feel like the returning vietnam veteran we've done every tough difficult, timbering

mining, manufacturing, we've done it and now no one appreciates it and kicks them to the side and there's nothing for them. >> why are the democrats still so disconnected from those people? had three guys running for office yesterday that acted like touching a gun would make them melt. can you take a couple of democrats out and teach them how to shoot a gun? >> well -- >> not -- i mean, only because if you want to start winning states like west virginia and the upper midwest you can't pretend like you're scared of them. >> i said this, if we can't win in states like west virginia, missouri, montana, north dakota, the rural parts of the country that are doing a lot of the work being done in the country, if those people aren't connecting and if the majority of labor basically is leaving us because they don't think we're protecting their jobs, there's a problem. why are we talking about

education? why aren't we talking about the health care? why aren't we talking about foreign relations, things that really matter? >> yeah. joe, and do me a favor next week, would you? su since i can't be there to mouth off -- >> i miss you. >> would you do me a favor and say everyone needs to stop talking about them gutting aca and talk about preexisting conditio conditions. that is as you know -- >> you and i honed in on that. >> and it is, i think, 85% of america wants preexisting conditions protected. they have no plan to do that. and the president's lying about it, he's continued to lie about it. now he's said to his department of justice, i want you to go gut preexisting conditions. i -- yesterday in that hearing, i wanted somebody to make a headline getting barr to say i thought the president wanted to protect preexisting conditions. you're now going to court to do away with them. >> well, i can say this.

i've hit barr pretty hard on that and i've had him in private meetings. his -- understanding they defend it. he was trying to defend not going after and supporting the texas decision. but he was overruled by the person he has to answer to, i guess, the president and they wanted to go on a different reason because of political promises made, claire. preexisting condition carried me all the way. i used it from day one and never got off of it because it touches everybody's lives. >> absolutely. >> and there's somebody that's going to be denied and i've said west virginia like as where joe was raised or mika, people would say i just don't want to be a burden to my family has they had toward end of life diseases or whatever because they couldn't afford it. it would bankrupt the family. people really relate to this and now that they're actually getting care and you're going to take it away from them? remember the republicans came up with a program, they says we have one. they were so ashamed of what

they came out with they won't introduce it. >> they wouldn't even put it on paper. >> they would not because what it said we're going to cover all of your body for anything that happens to you but if you had a preexisting condition you ought to pay extra or won't cover it at all. >> well, heck, we're back to square one. >> hey, senator. i want to ask you about some of the chatter inside west virginia is that you may go back and run for governor, a seat you held. you won the first time by 30 points, you were re-elected by 34 points. is that something that interests you to return to the state? >> those really were the good old days, that's all i can tell you. >> would you run again? >> i will say i'm considering it. it's going to be a family decision. we've come through one of the most brutal campaigns we've ever been in and i've been around this since 1982. so people know me pretty well in

west virginia. i'm just joe. whatever it takes to make my state better i'm going to do and i want to make my state the best it possibly can and right now we have challenges so i'm going to make that decision that decisio probably this fall. we're looking at it very seriously. i'm now ranking member on energy, and claire knows when you're ranking member, you have more input and have the staff to work, so it's how i can best help the state and the country. >> great to see you. >> you too, mika. good to see you all. up next, we're going to talk about a brewing health crisis with the number of measles cases. >> can you believe this? >> i can't. climbing to record levels. and the inaugural ascend summit in new york city. i'll be talking about the great lineup of guests.

it's all about the push to drive change and get more women into leadership positions. i hope you'll join me for the kickoff summit. to learn about this, go top -- >> you actually are. >> smoking is allowed, isn't it? >> no, it's not. we'll be back in three minutes with the important medical news on the measles outbreak. we'll be right back. on the mea outbreak we'll be right back. patients with serious diseases are being targeted for cuts to their medicare drug coverage. new government restrictions would allow insurance companies to come between doctor and patient. and deny access to individualized therapies millions depend on. call the white house today. help stop cuts to part d drug coverage that put medicare patients at risk.

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. so president trump is celebrating his solid approval rating in a new poole. there's a problem, though. it's totally inaccurate. >> what a shock. >> he posted a screen grab from fox, apparently lou dobbs show, quoting his soaring approval at 55%. >> wow, that's great. 55% was unfavoritable rating. >> it's been a rough couple weeks for the president.

let's go to the next story. a mandatory vaccination order has been issued, to be vaccinated within 48 hours. the first time the city has imposed mandatory vaccinations. >> joining us right now. dr. dave campbell. and secondly, what can parents do? is there anything else they can do?

it's directed towards this very highly contagious disease that's easy to forget about. in 1963 when the vaccine came out, the numbers went down dramatically. it's a highly contagious disease, keeping people he, and not immunized can keep. that's --s. >> diarrhea is especially dangerous, a side effect. i understand there's a home remedy that health officials are suggesting? >> yes, first, gatorade and pedped ped pedialyte. or you can make your own oral replacement, salt, a liter of

water, six tea spoons of sugar, half a teaspoon of salt, mix it together with orange juice and help. that's the leading causes for severe side effects. dave, williamsburg is a highly compact area. what do you do if you have a child between the ages of birth or 2 or 3 years of age who have already received a vac. would that child be immunized? >> well, they could, because the vaccines are about 97% effective. that leaves that dangerous 3%. there are some kids out there who haven't been vaccinated because of health problems, immune suppression. and then of course the policy that aren't vac nailed at all.

you're not totally protected, but it's a critically important thing to do, to protect everybody. >> that's what they say about flu shots as well it may not helped you totally, but it -- >> that's the herd mentality. the more people are vaccinated, the less likely somebody that, for whatever reason is not vaccinated, will catch the disease. critical important. we'll be following this outbreak -- >> doctor, i just hope that you realize the medical profession has a huge role in stepping up and talking about vaccinations. this misinformation is really dangerous. >> every doctor in the country knows that, and they're today talking to their patients about what to do for themselves and their families to get vaccinated it's not just measles.

there's mumpses, rubella, adult diseases that need vac nations, so in general vaccinations are important. >> thank you, doctor. that does it for us. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. thank you. this morning we have breaking news, julian assange arrested as the ecuadorian government withdraws the asylum. the attorney general of the united states says the trump campaign was illegally spied on. >> i think spying on a political campaign is a big deal. spying did occur, yes, i think spying did occur. and 2020 vision. in just moments presidential candidate elizabeth warren unveils her