my thanks to kim, rick, the rev and donnie and to all of you for watching, thank you so much. that does it f our hour. "mtp daily" with my friend chuck todd starts right now. >> have they shut down the border of your show yet? they haven't shut down the border of my show. if it's friday, the white house's latest plans are bordering on illegal.

good evening, i'm chuck todd here in washington. welcome to "meet the press daily." the president this afternoon said he is strongly considering a plan to send detained immigrants to sanctuary cities seemingly as a way to retaliate against his political enemies. it's a plan that is potentially illegal, or as someone said, so illegal. nbc news ha learns learned the administration is considering running detention camps. the president told the acting dhs chief that he would get a pardon if he ran into legal troubles if he closed the border. they weren't sure if the president was joking or not. these are remarkable developments that raise questions about abuses of presidential power. a former official at the department of homeland security told nbc news they scrapped the sanctuary city idea after it was determined to be, quote, so illegal. officials at the white house and

dhs initially insisted it wasn't being taken seriously. but then the president spoke at the white house. >> we'll bring the illegal -- or the illegals. i call them the illegals. they came across the border illegally. we'll bring them to sanctuary city areas and let that particular area take care of it. they want more people in their sanctuary cities, we'll give them more people. we can give them a lot. we can give them an unlimited supply. let's see if they're so happy. they say they have open arms. let's see if they have open arms. >> let this all sink in a minute. the president of the united states says he is strongly considering a plan that would weaponize dhs, an agency he has gutted, and an agency he said just a few days ago he was personally running, as a tool to punish his political opponents. and now we've got this.

>> reporter:ing -- got this reporting about the president saying he would give a pardon. let's dive in with julia ainsley, she broke the story on one of the potential illegal plans by the white house to deal with this migrant crisis. with me on set is leeann caldwell, michael steele and neera tanden. julia, let me start with you. part of this feels as if it's the president sabre rattling again. after all, think about where we've been since december. he shut the government down over this, declared the national emergency, threatened a shuttering of the border, now threatening this. i take it most people are trying to deal with this as empty rhetoric. is it still being dealt with as sort of a sabre rattle empty threat? or are people starting to take this more seriously? >> chuck, i remember having that

same conversation when i heard in 2017, in february of 2017 about this concept of separating children at the border from their parents. we thought it was sabre rattling. we thought they were just using that as a scare tactic and they actually did it. those are the same conversations that we had at nbc and "the washington post" and "the new york times." what's happening at the white house is they're going over other tactics that could be illegal but the president thinks might be useful. some of these are being -- they're telling the president you can't do this, it's illegal, it doesn't even make sense logistically, but some of them could still stick. there's a higher likelihood of him going through some of these things because he's pushed out people who said they were illegal. people like kirstjen nielsen who told him you couldn't reinstate family separation. he's getting rid of the people that say no and filling the positions with acting secretaries, acting chairs, acting directors who say yes, even if they're illegal, partly

because he can put these plans in action and even if they're enjoined by the courts, the voters, the people in his base who want him to do something extremely tough and bold on immigration can see what he did it. in fact i think that's exactly what we saw with the sanctuary city story today. we were told this was so illegal it was immediately dismissed. those were the official statements from the department of homeland security to the press. then the president, rather than gepgt behind h getting behind his open spokes people thought maybe that's not a bad idea if i push it and make it look serious. at this point we have to cover everything even if told it couldn't happen because there's a reality now some of these things could go forward. >> i want to put up, guys in the control room, full screens 3 and 4. this was the white house statement before the president tweeted about the plan. this was just a suggestion that was floated and rejected, which ended any further discussion. that was a white house statement late last night. let's put up full screen 4.

this is the white house statement after the president's tweet. democrats say we must have open borders and that illegal immigrants have a right to be in this country at all costs, so they should be working with the administration to find the best ways to transport those illegal aliens that are already set for release into communities in their states and districts. what's the president's end game? does he think the democrats will say, you know what, you're right, mr. president, your way of dealing with the border is the way to go. the carrot and stick works when you have a carrot. this is stick, stick, stick, stick. >> the president is feeling a tremendous amount of pressure. >> from who? where is the pressure coming from? who is pressuring him? >> himself. >> okay. >> this is his number one campaign issue from the 2016 campaign. he promised that mexico would pay for the wall. >> not happening. >> he said he alone could fix everything, including this. it's gotten worse. and so he has seen this. he is entering into the 2020 election, a lot of other

candidates are. he's feeling a tremendous amount of pressure to do something. as we are seeing that he's willing to test and go over many boundaries that are statutorily in place. >> and it does, michael, this sort of fettish about his base, they're not going anywhere. >> no. they'll be there. >> and all he's done is made a bunch of red border states purple. that's what has happened in the last two years. >> particularly in the house. >> and i think that's very true. but the president has never cared about that. >> doesn't he care about winning isn't. >> he cares about winning, but he doesn't see that as the pathway to his win. it was not part of the makeup of the 2016 campaign. he wasn't worried about border states and which one is purple and which one is blue. what he worried about is how can i get the base to turn out. a lot of this stokes the same interest, going out and supporting the president as you have referenced before, this is about making sure that that base knows that he's still in there fighting for them. he's still going to push those

buttons. then when it all falls apart, he can point at the courts, at the justice department, at democrats and say i tried, it's their fault. >> mitch mcconnell is expressing frustration by saying, you know what, maybe we've got to figure out if we can come up with a bipartisan solution. and you're sitting there saying, well, there is one sitting on the shelf up there, i remember that one. but in a very tiny way the way mitch mcconnell is pushing back in his own way. >> microscopically pushing back. >> it is there. i know the democrats don't feel ann incentive to do this with him, the president of the united states. what should democrats in the house and the senate be doing right now to deal with this? ignore the president and talk with mcconnell? >> you know what, i don't want to glide over the fact that the president of the united states is basically dangling pardons in front of people. it's highly illegal activity. and i know that trump is abnormal and we kind of change

the bar, but this should be like a hair on fire event. when any president of the united states -- >> you sounding like james comey. he goes, yeah, he wants me in jail and i laugh it off. suddenly i realize we're numb to this. we're getting numb to this irrational behavior. >> i do think this is a serious set of events, which is essentially what's happening is the president has a failed immigration policy, right? border movements are up. people coming across the border are spiking. he had a strategy which he said would succeed, which is the family separation policy. if you basically make it so terrible for people to come across the border, they would not come. that has been a failure. i think the challenge he has or the worry he has, and i agree with you, he is only the president of his base. that's not a successful strategy, but it is the way he thinks he won. it is alienating in fact everything he does violating the rule of law, being xenophobic

hurts him with suburban voters. he did campaign on the carry van in the last three weeks and lost the house. but i think he looks at the world and says i am not the president of the united states, i am not the president of states that didn't vote for me, my job is to torture these people, right? >> i'm going to raise the taxes in blue states, on people in blue states. i'm going to send people i don't like into the blue states. it is sort of -- we're sitting here laughing about it, but he's dead serious about this. >> this is the thing. the truth is mitch mcconnell shouldn't be like sending up a smoke signal, republicans who used to be constitutional republicans who were original republicans should not want a president who acts like a king. >> julia, speaking of mitch mcconnell, i want to put up what he said yesterday. because again, it's his own way of trying to acceptsend a messa the white house. evening it's way past time for us to have an adult bipartisan discussion about our immigration laws and see what we can agree

to. i'm willing to enter into a dpoerks to see what we can do to fix the problems. that almost seemed like, julia, mitch mcconnell begging nancy pelosi to do something with him. i don't know if she'll feelin se -- feel incentivized to do that. can mcconnell and pelosi do something on the side that somehow the president is left out of it? >> reporter: well, gosh, i mean the legislative proposals we've seen from this administration so far have included ways to deport children more quickly. perhaps if they can work on something on the sideline. i will say there was a strategy that the white house wanted last summer during zero tolerance, they thought, and people accused them of holding children hostage, they thought if they kept separating children from their families enough that congress would finally see that the laws that prohibit them from holding families longer than 20 days were not going to work and they would have to somehow come up with new legislation around

detaining families and asylum. some people say they regret reversing that decision because they think they were just a harrhai hair away from getting congress to the table. so the problem with mcconnell putting out statements like that when we're seeing these extreme policies being lobbed up into the air, it actually shows the president that his strategy could be working. >> interesting. >> a lot of people would say that's not how our legislative discourse should proceed. >> leeann, julia brings up the catch-22. his my way or the highway approach, you don't give in to a temper tantrum teenager, right? i have two of them at my house, i'm aware of how to parent them, i get that. but neither of my teenagers have executive power. this one does. >> the way i read mcconnell's remarks to the president, it was a message to the president saying, look, if you're serious about finding a solution to the

border you need to start these negotiations and come to the table honestly to come up with some legislation. jared kushner was on the hill this week talking to republicans, meeting with republicans to try to restart this process. mick mulvaney was on the hill talking to democrats. i'm told the conversations didn't go that far. apparently there's going to be more conversations about it. there's a small group of people on the hill who do want to solve this problem. but then there's the larger number of people on the hill who know that they have been here again and again with this president and it's exploded and gone nowhere. >> michael, how is -- why would anybody want to go work at dhs if he's going to do this? john kennedy, a republican senator from louisiana, said they're opening her up like a soft peanut, talking about kirstjen nielsen. how do you anybody to work over there. who would wanting to work for the president under these circumstances? >> certainly not at the seniormost levels. there's less and less interest to do that because more careers

are dying on the altar of donald trump as he sacrifices them for their own particular pleasure. >> i want to remind government workers that there are people that went to jail or that have to go to jail in new jersey who were following political orders when the politician in chris christie refused to stand up for the orders that he and the aides did illegal acts on his behalf and ended up being punished and the politician doesn't. they have to think about this. >> and that's probably the latest secretary's view on this. you want me to do what? no. i'm not hiring any lawyers. so yeah, there's less and less incentive to go in. let's understand what we're talking about. this is what trump wants. he doesn't want real managers. he doesn't want real cabinet secretaries. he doesn't want a real chief of staff. he doesn't want a real communications director. he is, as he said in the clip this week, i do it all.

i'm the one who makes this decision. so he is the ceo of the united states of america. as the ceo of what he thinks is a closely held corporation that is family run, he gets to decide, just as he did in trump world where everything came to him. he was the ultimate arbiter of what was truth and what wasn't. that's the space he likes. the question for mcconnell and others in the cabinet is how can you continue -- what is your expectation to think you're going to get that legislation you were talking about. >> however, you know what he successfully did today? we laughed off, oh, my god, it was a crazy idea of stephen miller's to send them to sanctuary cities. we're writing it off. an he's like nope. he's probably making sure it's the lead story in every news organization, local, national. i've done a whole bunch of -- he has forced this to be taken seriously even though it's beyond an absurd premise. >> it is. but look, i think a good response to donald trump an a

good response to this hollowing out of dhs is his policies are not working by his own measure. he said he would be the tough on border president. he said democrats want open borders. when he has a surge of people coming across the border that is much higher than during the obama administration. with all of his failed policies and his policies of defunding support for central american countries, for the family separation policy, he's taken a number of steps. and smart people will say your policies have failed. and there's no one who's working at dhs and no one who's working in any of these agencies, so it's chaos on top of failure, which was the reason why he didn't do so well in the midterms. it will be a good strategy for 2020. >> julia, there's another phef m phenomenon going on here, which is the coyotes, who are trying to take advantage of these frightened citizens of guatemala

and honduras and el salvador, the message is come now or you'll never get in. perversely his threats to shut the border have actually incentivized more migrants. >> reporter: i'm so glad you brought up that, chuck. i remember right before trump took office i saw a spike at the ending of the obama administration of illegal immigrants. i had what was the message? why did you come now? they said well, we were told we better get there before trump is elected because he's going to build the wall. by an large, his policies have either hit a legal wall or he's pulled them back, like reversing family separation. so he's spewing a lot of tough rhetoric that doesn't come through. while he's focused on getting that message out to voters, the message where it's landing is among coyotes and the people following them.

look at all the things that could happen if you don't come right now. >> it's like all the phony gun -- the gun store people who would say, oh, my god, obama is going to come take away your guns. buy one, get one free. it's the same phenomenon. the political threats that get out there and somebody grabs it to make a buck. that's what these coyotes are doing. >> deterrence has been the number one message of this administration. they say their policies are going to do that. it's done the exact opposite. >> it's encouraged it. >> i was talking to one person who used to work in the administration. they said no one should be using that term anymore. it's obviously not working. the only thing real deterrence is if you can deport people back to central american countries immediately, that is the deterrence, and anything else is just -- >> michael, in a rational society under the circumstance, i grew up in miami. the cuban boat lift in the '70s. the carter administration asked

states and cities, can you help out. i believe the governor of arkansas said yes and that cost him. it hurt him politically. we've relocated somalis into minneapolis. when the government asks for help during a period like this, like we could actually get together and say, okay, let's try to find these military installations -- you know, there are ways that we as a country will do this if everybody is singing from the same song. >> if everybody is singing from the same song sheet and if the person or the event that is being pushed out there is not forced on you pby the president. you know, the central antagonist is the guy you're looking to, to actually calm the waters and make things easy. but that's not the case. and to your point about the policy, there is no policy here. i mean building a wall is not a policy. you know, putting -- >> the last time you talked about h1b visas.

>> there is no policy. that's where the chaos comes in. for the administrators and the secretaries, there is no directive to say this is the goal. >> is that the feature? is chaos the feature, not the problem? >> the actual feature of this is to basically use immigrants as a political tool. that is what -- this whole thing, the fact that right before the midterms he's discussing the caravan, not the tax cut. the fact that he's been talking about immigration for the last several months. >> but he won the senate and he thinks the caravan won him the senate and claire mccaskill will say the caravan didn't help. >> sure. but i think the truth is when you look across the country, it's a presidential election. there's a lot of states on the border. some new states that might be on the border. arizona may well be in play this time. i think the truth is those suburban women and a lot of suburban men don't like the fact that the president of the united states -- what's really happening here is not a policy, you're absolutely right.

what it is is a campaign tool to attack immigrants and attack people who are different and whip up hatred. >> and we're also not talking about mueller and barr. >> he has the convening power if he wanted a bipartisan team to show up. >> he can't make a deal. he goes back on every deal. >> julia ainsley, thank you. leea leeann, michael, neera, stick around. there actually is a problem at the border. what can be done to solve it? julian castro is standing by and will join us in just a moment. he is the only candidate with a comprehensive immigration plan right now. we'll get his reaction to all this breaking news, next. plus three more democratic candidates are about to make it again. the presidential campaign announcement game is coming soon this weekend. every day, visionaries are creating the future.

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choose cruelty as a weapon against these people and against political opponents. last week i released an immigration plan. i'm calling on americans to choose compassion, not cruelty. >> that was democratic presidential candidate julian castro. the former san antonio mayor and hud secretary says that the, quote, cruelty of this administration never seems to end. we can have a secure border while also being compassionate. castro is the only member of the democratic presidential field with a detailed policy proposal on immigration. he's also the only latino candidate running for president in 2020 as of this moment. julian castro joins me now from san antonio. mr. castro, good to see you, sir. thanks for coming on. >> great to be with you, chuck. >> i know -- i have a feeling i know what you would think of the president's various proposals over the last few days about dealing with this current problem at the border. but let me -- before you get into the rhetoric against trump, your president right now, you've

got to triage this situation right now, what do you do temporarily? we know that there's got to be a legislative fix. i'll well aware of your plan. but what do you do right now? >> what i would do right now is reverse course on what this administration has done. you all were just having a conversation about how a lot of this rhetoric that he's put out there in addition to his cruel policies have actually made the situation worse, not better. so what i would do is, number one, as i say in my plan, i would go back to treating these violations, somebody that's coming across the border, as a civil penalty, not a criminal one. i would not treat people who are seeking asylum as criminals. i would allow them to make their asylum claim. that would help reduce the backlog that has happened because we've been treating this as a crime. i would also be much more active in terms of investing in our judiciary system so that those asylum claims can be processed.

and instead of spending money on useless things like a wall, billions and billions of dollars on that, i would spen d it on things like the family monitoring program that was developed in the obama administration so when somebody comes over across the border and they go through the legal process, they are allowed to be in the country but they're actually monitored more carefully in a community-based way and this program actually had a 99% success rate of people checking back in and making their court appearances. so i would do this in a smarter way. in the long term, as i put in my people first plan, i would have -- strike up a stronger relationship between these countries so people can find safety and opportunity there, instead of having to come to the united states and seek opportunity here. >> all right. i want to peel back a couple of these things.

fif first i want to talk about your decision that you want to make it a civil penalty as opposed to a criminal penalty. opponents to that will say that you are essentially opening the door to open borders. peep will come in, you'll never see them again because there's no penalty. what does that do to the power of deportation, for instance? >> yeah, this whole talk about open borders is -- the only thing that is is a republican talking point. we still have 654 miles of fencing. we have thousands of personnel. >> would you keep all that fencing? >> what was the question? >> would you keep all that fencing, by the way, that's still there? would you keep it all? >> i don't know that i would keep every single inch of that fencing. to the extent that some of that fencing goes over environmentally sensitive areas, i would be open to reviewing that. most of that fencing is there, it's going to stay there. but let me finish answering the question. you know, this is not open

borders, that's sicmply a talkig point. what it would do is treat people with compassion and respect. they would still be in a judicial process. i would also say, chuck, as a lot of your viewers know, this is how we treated these types of violations all the way up until 2004. they were treated from the late 1920s until 2004 when we had something called section 1325 of the immigration and nationality act in place where this could be treated as a crime but it wasn't. it was treated as a civil violation. i believe that's the better route to go. that would not bean open borders, it would just reduce the backlog and treat people hu humanely and ensure, as i said, through something like the family monitoring program that they show up back in court. so there's a smarter way to do this that would not create the chaos that this president has. i mean it has been a total failure. is there anybody out there that can look at what's happening on

the border today and say that trump has actually been a success? no. he's actually made it worse. >> you know, ironically the idea of the monitoring program, i remember that during the 2008 republican primaries. mike huckabee was a big advocate saying if fedex can track packages, we can track people in the country, there are ways to do this. i don't know if he still shares that view now, but back then he did. by the way, how would that work, a gps device, something like that? >> actually in this program, this particular one they did not do that. they had essentially people who would check in with them. they would also have to go and meet with essentially a caseworker that continues to monitor where they're at, keep in touch with the family, maybe sure that they show up to their court appointment. it turned out to be very successful. had a 99% success rate. so this is something that we can build on and scale up instead of

wasting billions of dollars on a wall that is not going to work. on top of that, and i hope this part doesn't get lost in the shuffle, we need to take a long-term view. we need the equivalent of a 21st century marshall plan for central america, so people can find safety and opportunity at home instead of having to make the dangerous journey and knock on the door of the united states. >> i'm curious if you couldn't get your plan through but republicans said, you know what, we'll take the 2013 compromise plan that the so-called gang of eight built that the senate passed and the house never took up, could you live with that piece of legislation? >> well, you know, i think what i proposed is a better plan. i'm always willing to listen. and of course in any legislative process there's going to be negotiation. but i believe that the plan that i've set forth is a better plan. i think it spends money more wisely, that it treats people with compassion and not with

cruelty, and that in the long run it's going to mean not only that this challenge is going to be addressed in a better way and more humanely but in the long run we're not going to have as many people knocking on the door of the united states. >> the president wants to threaten these so-called sanctuary cities, and i say so-called because there really isn't a definition to all of this that is fully out there. but is there actually a need to find a way to keep -- i mean should -- if we were living in a rational moment here on this, we would -- for instance, i grew up in miami and there were times that the federal government asked other cities and states who can help out on refugees? who can help out on placing folks, because at the time miami was getting overloaded at the time and you saw other cities and states step up. i mean there is -- there is some precedent to doing this when everybody is singing from the same song sheet. >> no doubt. in fact the way that it used to be done, as you said, and even

most recently in the obama administration is that the federal government would work with local communities, including with local nonprofits, whether it's catholic charities or a number of other nonprofits that help support migrants who are released here in the united states to see what the capacity was for them to take on the number of people that were going to be released. but what they wouldn't do is what the president is suggesting, is essentially to use these migrants as political pawns to go and in the view of the president punish his political opponents by, quote unquote, dumping migrants or flooding them into those communities without the support services they need, without the community being aware that this is happening. that makes no sense. it's another example of how cruel and how irrational this president is when it comes to this issue. you know, what's become clearer and clearer is that he believes

that this issue, and this issue more than any other issue out there, is the way that he thinks he's going to get re-elected with a very narrow electoral college victory in certain states. and what i've said is that we can't be afraid of that as democrats. i put my plan out there with a completely different vision from this president because i'm not afraid of that and i'm going to make the argument for the opposite case that he's made. >> what would you advise, if your brother came to you, he's serving in congress, and said mitch mcconnell wants to try to have a bipartisan -- wants to try to have some bipartisan talks between the democratic house, republican senate, see if they can get something together. it sounds like mcconnell almost wants to ignore the white house for a while. would you advise house democrats, including your brother, you know what, sit down with mcconnell, not a bad idea right now? >> i would always advise people to listen, see what's possible. you know, you can't get anywhere

if you don't at least sit down and talk. i don't see anything wrong with that. however, it all depends on the details. like any other piece of legislation. so yeah, i think it's worth talking. i wish the president were more amenable to reaching out to the other side of the aisle to get things done. i have my doubts about mitch mcconnell too, honestly, but on this issue i do think that it is worth talking, sure. >> let me talk a little bit about the campaign. is there a point where there's so many candidates it's hard to stand out? >> what are we up to now, about 19 or 20 candidates? >> that doesn't count biden, right? he hasn't announced yet. yeah, we're getting close to two dozen. >> there's no doubt that it's crowded. you know, i'm going to let other people deal with their campaigns. for me, i've been out there. i've been delivering a compelling strong vision for the future of the country, talking about how we can become the

smartest, healthiest, fairest and most prosperous nation in the 21st century. pointing out that i'm one of the few candidates that has executive experience and a track record of getting things done, as somebody who has served as a cabinet member and as the mayor of the seventh largest city. and also that i represent a new generation of leadership, so that's what all the candidates are going to do and i'm going to do is go out there and work hard, do all of the things that you need to do. knock on doors in iowa and get out to these town halls. i'm looking forward to the debates because i think people will get a chance to compare candidates next to each other. i'm confident at least for myself that once that starts, you know, i'm going to make some traction. >> very quickly on health care, there's a lot of discussion about single payer versus obamacare and expanding that. which category are you in? would you like to see the whole

system scratched and start over, go with the single payer system, something similar to bernie sanders' approach is or take obamacare, make it work and have a public option? >> i grew up with a grand mother that had type 2 diabetes so throughout my life when i was growing up i saw the impact diabetes had on her and the procedures that she had to go through. she had to have one of her feet amputated right before she passed away in 1996. but thankfully she had medicare that whole time. i want to strengthen medicare for the people who have it and then make sure that medicare is there for everybody who wants it. at the same time, i'm not against somebody having their own private health insurance plan if they want to do that. but we absolutely need to make sure that people can be on medicare and a strong medicare system if they want to do that. >> so you'd like to see a voluntary medicare for all it

sounds like of some form? >> yeah. for people to have the opportunity to be enrolled in medicare. but if they have a private health insurance plan that they want to stick to, then i believe that's okay too. what i don't believe is that the profit motive should ever determine whether a human being in this country gets health care and medication that they need. i disagree with that. we need a system where everybody can get care, not just insurance, but actual care in this country. >> all right. julian castro, much appreciate you coming on. i know we spent a lot of time on one issue. i look towaforward to having yo again. >> great to be on. three democratic candidates are ready to launch or relaunch this weekend. how long can the buttigieg boom really last? i'with uncontrollederson who moderate-to-severe eczema, . or atopic dermatitis... ...you feel like you're itching all the time.

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welcome back. tonight's 2020 vision, three democratic candidates are ready to launch, but you'll be forgiven if you thought they already had. >> my focus is running for president of the united states. and i will be running hard and going directly to the people. >> senator cory booker made his presidential announcement in february, but this weekend he'll hold his official launch in newark. the delayed kickoff has become fashionable this campaign season. >> i'm running for president of the united states. >> it's official. it's official. boy, did it feel good to say that. >> congressman eric swalwell is rushing for a kickoff rally. it's this sunday in california, just six days after his actual announcement. and sunday is the same day that mayor pete buttigieg will make his campaign official in south bend, indiana. >> i'm very pleased to let you know that we'll be making some

big news this sunday. >> mayor pete has been doing some good interviews, bringing in good money and racking up good poll numbers, but can he give a good rally as well? we'll find out this weekend. could the buttigieg boom lead to an even bigger bump in the polls, or is it going to have a bust moment? we'll talk about that in just a moment. just a moment every day, visionaries are creating the future. so, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. e-commerce deliveries to homes so let's promote our spring ftravel deals, on choicehotels.com like this: (sneezes) earn one free night when you stay just twice this spring. allergies. or.. badda book. badda boom.

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as we just said, pete buttigieg is in the midst of a moment. he's about to hold his campaign kickoff rally in his hometown. he's got some money, raising $7 million in the first quarter, and might just have some momentum. third place in both new polls in iowa and new hampshire, so we're calling this moment a buttigieg boom, but we've seen this before and these booms can go bust. beto o'rourke raised more than $9 million the first two and a half weeks, surged to third place, brought in big crowds, but the former texas congressman is polling a little lower, starting to settle down in the mid to low single digits. neera, are we going to go through what republicans went through in 2011, sort of a front-runner a month? >> i was just going to reference 2011 and 2012. >> will we see a front-runner a month? it's like we all kick the tires at the same time around these candidates. is that what we should expect? >> i think that is a big -- i mean obviously the vice

president hasn't come in. he has strong support in the party. his numbers were still strong this week, even after the last several weeks. but i also think you've seen a number of candidates who have surged into second or third. i think the big issue, the next big moment will be the debates. in 2007 the debates were a big moment in that primary. but we could be in a situation where there is a bit of a flavor of the month. and, you know, as people -- i think you have to see what everyone does. do they have their big rally? then they do the tv circuit, and are they strong or weak after all of that. >> michael, i am very curious on sunday to watch buttigieg at a rally. he's great in these single interviews, he's been good in the town halls. the guy is made for iowa. he's got that perfect iowa appeal to him. sort of the friendly midwesterner thing. but the big rally moment matters too. we do want our presidents to be larger than life.

>> because lord knows the one we have really is. larger than life seems to be the order of the day for a lot of voters out there. so how do you make that appeal? buttigieg, you know, i see him more as a serious guy. he sort of really thinks through stuff before he says it. the rally is a whole different feel. >> it's crazy that politicians do that. he actually accepts the premise of the question. i think that's why people are attracted to him. he comes across as normal. >> he pauses and goes, okay, yeah, let me process that and give you an answer. but the rally is a different thing, you're right. it evokes something very different in the electorate, in the excitement that people have. can you capture that, hold it and draw people closer into your campaign? that will be a big test. evening he passes it, though. >> i think one question for him just really briefly, i think at the end of the day a lot of people are looking at whether he can have a diverse group of people behind you. at the end of the day the democratic nominee hasn't been

elected to win the primary without really backing the people of color and white voters. that's an important test for him. >> buttigieg in this little back and forth with mike pence has probably only helped him a little bit. here he is showing that he can -- that he's willing to confront this administration. >> absolutely. and he's done it effectively too. >> absolutely. >> mike pence is engaged. and that's a good sign for buttigieg. >> by the way, mike pence seems a little rattled by it. he seems -- >> his wife got involved in it too. >> a tad ralts erattled by it. >> but what i will say as far as polling is concerned, i feel like the last place you want to be is at the top of the polls. anywhere near the top. i think that we are definitely going to have a flavor of the month. i've been on the campaign trail. voters are completely candidate shopping. no one is committing right now. >> but they're open minded about it. >> and they know they have a lot

of choices. this is going to be a sport for the next year and a half. >> on the pence thing, a little cautionary tale. there is a legacy of a marco rubio. when you decide to engage with the trump team, just be prepared. just be prepared and be smart. he's -- the vice president has got him engaging with him. i would not say it's the other way around. >> it's very interesting you say that, because there's this invisible test that i think voters are giving that i think elizabeth warren is running headlong into. no matter how much they like you, no matter how much they want to fall in love with you, they're curious to see can you handle this? there was an interesting lead-up in "the washington post." they were talking about elizabeth warren, has he hit a wall here. i wonder if voters have in their head, wow, boy, you really took the bait on that pocahontas stuff and didn't handle it. >> i think the central issue for everybody, and they have to

figure out how to handle it, is can you get in the ring with trump and survive. and i think people believe the vice president can get in the ring with trump and survive. when assume he can. if beto o'rourke had only three people instead of 10,000 people. i think this is a big issue. you see kamala harris saying she can go door to door with him because she's a prosecutor. you don't want to replicate trump but you have to beat trump. >> and abaaobuttigieg can do it. >> all of them. that's another thing that i heard on the trail over and over

again. electability is top of mind. >> and that's something that you mentioned elizabeth warren. she has that problem. the pocahontas really seeped into voters' minds and voters told me they didn't know if a woman could go up against trump. not that a woman couldn't be president. they thought a woman could be an effective president. but they called trump a bully and they're not sure on the debate stage if a woman can effectively attack trump in the way that needs to be done. >> what do you say to that? i've heard this from some voters. a lot of times it is women voters who say. this they look at trump and they say, don't, don't, the first woman will get eaten alive by him for some reason. >> i think it is a hangover that hillary clinton was an incredibly qualified candidate who did best him in the debates. if you're a woman, what else do you have to do? much better taking him on one to

one. she didn't get rattled and she still lost. i think a lot of people see that. >> that's how some felt with the woman. and that colored it. >> that may well be true. but it is a question about how people react. right now the wrem doing, if you add up all the numbers. it is a quarter of the vote. i find deeply distressing. >> all right. i'm going to pause the conversation. thank you. up ahead, what does ecuador do now with the julian assange sweep in london? ian assange sweep in london? i wanna keep doing what i love,

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that's all we have for tonight. we will be back monday with more "meet the press" daily and a possible redacted mueller report. if it's sunday, it is sunday on "meet the press." my guests will be kellanne conway, senior counsel to the president, and jay inslee, the governor of washington state who wants to make climate change his big issue in the presidential

trail. that will be on your local nbc station. and don't miss richard engel with stove banning. why he is now going after pope francis. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. >> are you expecting a big "newsweek" next week? >> i know you are. i am. the question is is it monday or tuesday and how redacted will you feel? >> how redacted indeed. >> i hope you have a redactful weekend. >> a redactful weekend to you as well. we'll see what that really means. monday or tuesday or whenever. we have a big friday night show here. rod rosenstein out defending his boss, attorney general bill barr, and interestingly, previewing parts of the mueller report which as we just discussed we are expecting next week. and betsy devos under fire for using kids as props while still trying to slash