sharpton and "politics nation." good evening and welcome to "politics nation." tonight eavesdrop tate. if he keeps his word is slated to release the redacted mueller report as early as tomorrow or tuesday. as expected, democrats are sharpening their knives and the president's allies are digging in on his unsupported claim that the mueller report contains nothing damaging. >> there was no collusion. there was no obstruction, which i don't know how you can interpret thatny

that democrats are going to continue to push this false narrative that there was somehow wrongdoing on behalf of the president. >> we also have now reporting from abc news today that the white house has been briefed about the quote logistics and timing of the release and will not seek further redactions, but what they are really worried about is the 30 hours of testimony from former white house counsel don mcgahn. that is contained in the report allegedly delving deep into whether or not the president obstructed justice. it all doull says contained in mueller report is a blueprint for how the president and his cadre operate which can let us know how much the president

tried to suppress the investigation to begin with. joining me now, chris lou, former secretary of labor under president obama and sarah long well, republican strategist and publisher and clee, national political reporter for "the washington post." what are you getting in terms of the fears around the 30 hours of testimony by a former white house counsel doug mccann. why are we hearing reports there is real concern, 30 hours is a long time for testimony and mcgahn was in a lot of those meetings, probably 85, 90% as white house counsel. >> you mean what am i hearing on the campaign trail? >> yeah, what are you hearing on the campaign trail of concern in that area all from democrats of

keen interest in that area. >> sure. democrats on the campaign trail have been really keen on mentioning the mueller report, on talking about it but when they take questions from voters, you know, voters are more intimately focused on kitchen table issues like the economy. i heard about reparations and the mueller report. >> now, scary, what are the republicans fearing? we saw the president's press secretary saying exoneration, exoneration and that, all that h matters is they didn't come out with accusations of collusion or obstruction but there can be a lot in the report that maybe doesn't rise to the level of criminality but can really be harmful. are republicans fearing that or do they think it will not matter and won't be that heavy a load to carry?

>> no, they are definitely fearing it. i mean, look, this isn't 400 pages about why the president was exonerated. there is very likely going to be troubling things in that report about ways in which the president may have sought to obstruct justice and look, the real question is this is going to be a test, a test for republicans. are they going to stand up if there was some attempt to obstruct justice and say something about it or will they continue to gamble their credibility to cover for the president? so yeah, i mean, i'm very interested to see it. i mean, i run a group called republicans for the rule of law. we've been waiting for this moment. there are only two people i trust, robert mueller and my own two gueyes. i'm excited to read the report. >> chris, you were a top official in the obama administration, what sarah said has to be something of concern

at the level 06 government you've worked and even those that might have been slightly higher although you were close to the top. 400 pages could not be 400 pages about nothing. >> yeah, there should be a lot of concern in the white house. the white house set a high bar by completely saying there is -- they have been exonerated in this effort and as you've talked about, it's not 400 pages explaining why he's been exonerated. there is going to beish sh issu about inappropriate conduct and embarrassing contact, as well. there is a lot of risk for the attorney general on the issue of obstruction where he over rode the determination of obstruction and as your reporting suggested, this issue about don mcgahn and 30 hours of testimony and what he said, don mcgahn would presumablably know about efforto

curtail the investigation and in front of witnesses, how white house witnesses were prepared before they went into the grand jury. there is a lot of issues there that people should be concerned about. >> let me go back to you cleve, if the report comes out and suggestions of obstruction of all kinds of inappropriate kinds of approaches to potential witnesses, do the democrats who you've said have not really relaid at this point, do they in light of the fact the president is refusing to relax tax returns with possible conflicts of interest from sources of income and combined with if there is the suggestion, if not out right saying that there was attempts to suppress this investigation, will the democrats shift and make this a main talking point in their pursuit of the nomination? >> i think it definitely gives

them a talking point. it definitely gives them another avenue of afak but the question the democrats are asking is whether they want to be that for forthright and go on the attack. some say i don't want to talk about trump, trump, trump all the time. that said, dem kraocrats have mentioned the mueller report and trump and they have mentioned administration obliquely but the question is which democrats would seize on that issue? >> sarah, when we look at the lineup for next year, there is some very vulnerable and some that are close in the reelection of republicans. they are the ones that have the seats that could get tricky for them. will some of them potentially break rank as you suggest you're

waiting to see? would some of them break rank if in fact this report is very damaging to the president, will some stand up and say wait a minute, i'm loyal to the party but this is wrong and start attacking the president? how do you keep them in the tent so to speak? >> well, obviously, it depends on what is in the report and i doubt any of them will actually attack the president but i do think there is going to be a need for some of these people if there are, you know, real attempts to obstruct justice. people like ben sass up for reelection but a real constitutional conservative. if it looks like the president did things that are deeply unethical or problematic, yes, they will have to come out and say something. we've seen signs of life from republicans lately. there were those that voted against the president on the national emergency. you just saw a bunch of republicans come out and push back against hermann cane's nomination to the fed.

while i would say generally republicans haven't been great pushing back against the president, they will do it hopefully, hopefully if there are things in there that are bad enough to rise to the level where they have to speak out. >> let me push on that. is that a possibility that if let's say things are very play tablet a -- blatant and we don't know this, let's say there is blatant statements by mcgahn or someone, will some of the center republicans fear that people that have your type of view in the republican party may even give them primaries? >> they might. although, i don't know that's going to be the big criteria. the people that will speak up will speak up maybe less about electoral concerns and more because they are the kinds of people that really care about things like the rule of law. i'm going to look really closely at mitt romney. he's not up for reelection but somebody i think will do the right thing when it matters and so those are the kinds of people i'm looking at. >> chris, when you are looking

at this situation with the president again with this report but potentially could say some things that are inappropriate if we look at the president saying that he will not agree to releasing his tax returns, though it will be up to treasury and the irs, but he's saying they would fight it top supreme court, are we seeing as one who is a senior member of the obama administration, are we seeing rules being shifted if not shafted on how we run the executive branch and how it relates to the legislative branch, are we seeing some concern here about the actual operating of how this government has worked? >> well, you're exactly right. i mean, we've just seen over the last couple days the rule of law being shattered in a couple notable ways. for instance, the secretary of

treasury is holding on off releasing tax returns not with standing the fact the statute says he shall furnish it and today you saw sarah sanders say well, we're not going to give the tax returns because we don't think members of congress are smart enough to understand them. that's a co-equal branch. we've seen reporting over the past couple days where the president said to the incoming head of the homeland security that you should go violate the law and if you violate the law and get in trouble, i'll pardon you. that's outrageous. those are two examples over the last couple days but it's really everything that we've seen over the last two years. >> cleve, you said that voters are more concerned about issues, pocketbook issues and similar issues, one that i've heard as i travel a lot is criminal justice. how will this be placed in the criminal justice discussion if in fact the president tried to

suppress an investigation on himself and those around him? >> well, you have, you know, several of the people running for president who are actual, you know, lawyers. i think kamala harris said that voters need to let somebody who will be able to prosecute the case against the president. so i think that there will be, you know, a lot of -- there is two kind of attack lines there. one is against trump and whether he is a good president and ethical president and another one is simply about, you know, whether voters have confidence in the individual that the executive branch to do the right thing. >> all right, my panel is sticking around for more but coming up first, white nationalist group will fundraising off a live stream of a congressional hearing about hate crimes. i'll explain when we come back. hate crimes. i'll explain when weom ce back

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we have made a little bit of progress but we are far, far from being through. we hear white nationalist are fundraising with this hearing but live streaming it is really, really troubling. >> house ju dish rarediciariry

from the rise of hate crimes in violent extremism. the southern poverty law center says hate groups have grown by roughly 30%. joining me now, pennsylvania congresswoman mary. she is the vice chair of the house judiciary committee. congresswoman, let me start right there with the sound byte we played from you at the hearing. while the hearing was going on about hate groups and violent crimes, based on hate and the like, there were actually groups fund raising while live streaming the hearing. tell us about this. >> certainly. as the hearing went on, there was a hearing to look at the rise of activity by white supremacist the last couple years and to look at the impact of social media and how that was playing into this rise and what

could be done to curtail it. as the hearing was going on over the course of a couple hours, first we heard that the comments on the youtube live stream had to be disabled because there were so many racist and other hate speech comments being entered there. >> during the hearing while they were watching the hearing? >> while they were watching the hearing, yes. the copper themments on the liv were so extreme that youtube blocked them and took the comment section down and a little while later, we heard it was live streamed on other platforms and that various alt right groups were using the live stream to fumd rain fund raise. >> you stated how you were looking as a committee how social media played into this whole question of hate groups and white supremacist. there is clear as i observed the

hearing that there is a rebranding that goes on. one minute identified as this, another minute as that. explain to us this rebranding they are doing with social media. >> well, i'm not a social media expert. i mean, that was one of the problems with the hearing there was a lot of ground to cover. i mean, we had people there from the adl, from the lawyer's committee from civil rights. we had a family who had been subjected, their loved ones had been murdered purely as a hate crime in north carolina. so we had a lot that we were looking about what was going on statistically and personally for people with the rise of white supre supremacy but we talked to people from goggle and what could be done lel slgislatively what they would be doing to legislate. >> i heard the quote and i like

to hear quotes that capsulize what is being said that some of these hate groups have traded in their hoods for having their screens in terms of their using social media. what was meant by that quote? >> well, it wasn't my quote but i think what was meant is that we're -- >> the computer screens is the word they used by go ahead. >> sure. well, we're seeing the way that the white supremacist groups recruit change. there was a period of time they were very active recruiting on college campuses. we're seeing that that's changing somewhat and they are using more social media to recruit beyobnd the college campuses. >> what is interesting and frightening to many of us that are targets of these groups based on race or gender or sexual orientation is as you state fundraising going on ugly

statements, it seems like there is a sense of being more emboldened and plblatant with ts hate. it not subtle or under ground that we're witnessing. >> well, i think that is what the fear is and that's why we were holding hearings is that, you know, it one thing, robert kennedy said it's one thing to be having extremist speech but whether you combine extremism with intolerance is when we really get worried. so if you're going to be intolerant of other people's speech and act on that intolerance, that's dangerous. i know just in my district alone here in philadelphia and western suburbs, you know, the mosques now have police outside since the new zealand shooting. >> right. >> and our synagogues have police outside since the pittsburgh shooting. so people don't feel safe in the places where they worship and where they go to school and where they go to movies and that's, you know, that's not the

way we should be living so we need to tackle this. >> what did the tech industry's testimony indicate that they are willing to do, can do, or should be doing? >> we didn't have the amount of time to really dig into that. i mean, obviously, they are doing some things already and google was there. google owns youtube and google was taking down comments as we were in that room. but i think they -- we really need to work with them and legislative need be to work on their use of the alga rhythms that draw people in and keep them online to the extent those are getting confused with, you know, that it's using some of these really volatile hate speech websites. we certainly know they have to do a better job with respect to taking down the material. >> isn't it a difficult or very

sensitive task to be able to do this without violating free speech at the same time because i think that's going to be some of the argument some of the groups use and who decide whose is the hate group and who is not? >> sure. i mean, that the always the fine line you have to trade between the first amendment is what is hate speech but just like you can't yell fire in a crowded movie theater, you cannot incite people to violence. >> all right. >> no matter what you are. >> thank you very much congress woman. up next, tomorrow is the deadline for all americans to file their tax returns, but will we see the president's paperwork? be right back. he president's paperwork? be right bac we switched.

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now for this week's got ya, tomorrow is tax day, the deadline for all americans to file their taxes and that includes mr. donald j. trump. yet, this president is the first one in 40 years to refuse to let anyone see his tax returns, either as a candidate or as a

president and he's trying to hide behind the treasury department and the irs to avoid turning over his tax returns to congress. now the law is a bit complicated when it comes to privacy rights but one thing is for sure, it is required under law that the irs hand over even a president's returns when it is requested by a chair of the house ways and means committee and this week, that request came in when chairman richard neal issued a formal request for the irs to hand over six years of the president's personal and business tax returns, by the way, house oversight chairman elijah cummings planned to subpoena trump's accountant tomorrow morning, as well. for all his financial records from the past ten years and that is really a big deal. the decision is not up to the

president, it falls under the treasury department. congress has given the treasury secretary steve mnuchin until april 23rd to present the president's taxes but he already says he needs more time because of the nature of the request. might want to hurry up because if secretary mnuchin or tax commissioner charles rigged fail to hand over the returns, they could be in violation of the u.s. tax code and risk up to five years even in prison time is the ultimate penalty if used. i want to be clear, at the end of the day, mr. mnuchin's duty is to serve the american people, not donald trump and whatever trump may be hiding in the finances will be revealed either via responding to a simple request or a simple subpoena. get it right, mr. secretary.

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they call me mayor pete. i'm a proud son of south bend, indiana and i'm running for president of the united states.

>> mayor pete looking very presidential as he throws his hat officially into the ring for 2020. the south bend man joins a crowded and diverse democratic field and all candidates at some point all will have to face the same tough question, can they win over african american voters? back with me, former assistant to president obama chris lou, director of republicans for the rule of law, sarah longwell and political reporter cleve. you did an article that caught my attention about how in many of the rallies by progressive candidates, there were very few african americans that attended and that there seems to be the

feeling of progressives on issues but not issues of race or concerns to african americans. >> sure, i was with bernie sanders at royal missionary baptist church in north charleston. there was some 1600 people there and i did a head count, there were something like 37 black people there and i think that what voters are telling me is they want candidates with progressive policies but will specifically say this is what benefit i will bring to black voters. >> when you look at that, chris, because there is a race gap in this country, when it comes to employment where you worked as deputy labor secretary when it comes to wealth, when it comes to education, when it comes to health care and certainly criminal justice, you have got

to deal with the race gap even as you deal with the class gap and the gender gap because even in the gender data that we have, there is a difference in how black women and white women fair in those areas. what are the democratic candidates challenged in terms of dealing with the race gap and can they deal with this in all of their outings, not just when they go by a church on a sunday? >> well, i think that's exactly right. the key is not to have a jobs plan for african americans, a jobs plan for hispanics, a jab plan for whites but a job plan that helps everyone and work harder to expand health care and work harder to make educational opportunities broader and when you look what candidates are talking about, they work to address the issues but also understanding and being empathetic of the history and concerns of african american

voters and frankly of all people of color and you don't need to be a person of color to have that empathy but you need to constantly be able to talk to those audiences and help them understand why you conserve those communities and whether it's mayor pete, whether it is, you know, people like elizabeth warren, they can do that effectively but have a bar they have to clear. >> let me ask you, sarah, the president said when he was running that african americans should vote for him, what do they have to lose? and many of us can give a lit knof reasons that we can say a lot is being lost or threatened. how does the republicans if donald trump is renominated as expected, how do they appeal to black voters? he, i believe, got 8% of the black vote in '16, he's trying to get more. what does he try to say to african american voters or because he's given such conflict to elements of white nationalism

because he ignores it and hope some would come because they come? >> yeah, i don't think donald trump is doing an awful lot to appeal to african american voters. i mean, donald trump is doubling down on appealing to his base, which is white working class voters without a college degree and i think, you know, the republican party at one point really had an opportunity. you know, in 2012 they did an autopsy and were going to reach out to african americans and women and figure out how to reach out to hispanics and donald trump is pretty much thrown that in the sledder an s decided we'll double down on working white class voters. >> cleve, as you know last week we had most of the candidates, i think, all but one or two that were at the convention where they spoke and where i questioned them on everything from criminal justice to rep x

reparations but the question is not just empathy but policy and commitment and some of them were pretty well received i thought mayor pete was well received, which i didn't know how he would be received in that we had hundreds of people in the ballroom and beto and others, i think the question is policy and people want to one, know you understand the difference in the race gap but that you have a program to close the race gap because saying that if we help everyone, it will help blacks when blacks are disproporti disproportionally disadvantaged in many key areas. let me -- i think something is wrong with his mic. let me ask you that, chris lou. >> that the exa's exactly right. there is a set of policy propels every candidate has to put out. as i said, there is a sense of empathy. you have to understand the struggles of these communities.

you have to understand how the words of bigotry that come out of the mouth of this president, the disportionly affect people of color and historically oc oppress oppressed, you can have the policy proposals and they can do good things but you have to fundamentally understand the struggles of those communities, that's a bar each candidate will have to reach. >> cleve, i understand you can hear me now. >> fine. >> i was saying and chris answered it but i want your view, at convention last week, i raised questions to each of the candidates that specifically dealt with their policy. not empathy, policy. when it comes to criminal justice more health care or reparations specifically around the race gap of the disadvantaged that blacks suffer in those areas. blacks don't just want to hear sound byte, they want to hear a specific commitment and policies, are you finding that

covering this campaign and talking to black voters? >> sure, i'm finding that a lot of black voters that i've talked to and a lot of black influencers have said, you know, it's nice that you are for reparations, it's nice that you talk about the disparity within the disparity but where are you on the policy issues? some of them are even going a step further because you know, these candidates have records. they are saying, you know, why didn't you vote for this particular piece of legislation? or, you know, where were you a decade ago when you weren't running for president? so it's, you know, voters want to be listened to. they want to be heard but they also want some evidence that the day after the primary, that these candidates are still going to be around for them. >> the record will speak for itself, sarah, when we look at this white house and you can reveal to me if i've missed

something, i don't remember in my lifetime and even my studies of before in terms of the white house makeup where we did not sense the turn of the 20th century having black in the west wing that we could identify as a senior person that had the ear of the president, this is the first white house that i don't know the black -- that the president is listening to on the west wing or in the west wing of the white house. >> yeah, i mean, look, diversity is not a priority for this white house and you can look at it -- >> not a reality. go ahead. >> yeah, i mean, if you look at judicial appointments, or just about any other sort of test of where people get nominated for things, there is just, look, there is not a lot of women or african americans or people of color and i don't think that obviously that should be doing it just for doing it sake but

it's important to listen to a multitude of voices, not just something that this white house is particularly interested in doing. >> and talking about 2020 happening now, california congressman eric swalwell is holding his kick off campaign rally in his hometown of dublin, the democrat sits on the judiciary committee. we'll be right back. judiciary c. we'll be right back. fidelity is redefining value.

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president trump's threat to flood sanctuary cities from the southern border has the nation's mayor's pushing back in a way he surely didn't expect with kindness as dozens of american cities respond with messages of their own to migrants. it's come on in. to the president, it's bring them on. joining me now, democratic mayor of newark, new jersey, a sanctuary city. what's your response to the president saying he will send detainees into the sanctuary cities like newark? >> that's exactly right. we would gladly accept them. they add to the economy. raise the opportunities for folks in the city, this narrative that, you know, immigrants or non-documented rest deidents create problems f the city is not true. >> he did not any of the mayors,

what their reaction could be. i think he assumed this should be a shot between political eyes and it seems to have been the opposite. >> that's right. his curse is our blessing. many immigrants kept cities afloat in difficult economic times. they opened stores and purchased goods and services and uplifted the economy. this does nothing but create more opportunity for folks in our city. >> what about those that said well, they are taking out jobs and coming in our cities and we would have had those jobs, how do you respond to that? >> that's not true, as well. a lot of the jobs these undocumented folks will get not necessarily people want to do in the first place. they are working in these communities, sometimes working under the table at places that will hire them. it's very difficult for them to get employment in the first place, and when they do, they are usually getting employment that's frowned upon by many,

many folks. >> you have a close working relationship with many of the faith leaders in nu we're talking about children in many cases. we're talking about putting children -- and part of what is being looked at is putting them in detain knee camps and havinge military police them. this is something that is toetly outside the bounds of how you treat human people, particularly babies. >> you can't be inhumane to people you don't think are human. people who you believe are less than you, you don't believe you're doing anything to their democratic rights because you don't believe they're equal to you. i don't think it has anything to do with his morality. he simply believes these folks are less than human or less than people period, so they should be able to do to them whatever they

want. >> you were very active when you were elected mayor in a lot of the meetings i saw at the white house when president obama was there around urban agendas, urban planning. have you heard from this white house on urban agenda, urban plans on infrastructure, anything? you're a mayor of a major city. >> not once. no discussion around criminal justice reform, no discussion around jobs, no discussion around anything, unemployment, health issues, environment, none of the issues that plague cities across america. we have not been convened, talked to, organized, not once. >> now, i want to go to something i asked in the last segment. you know and you've been in politics all of your life, was born into activism. we always would know the black -- we could call it the white house even if it was an administration we didn't feel was acting correctly.

but we knew this was call robert brown to get in nixon's ear and on and on and on. do you know as mayor of new ark who you could call that is black in the west wing of the white house? >> not a single person. i couldn't name them at all. i couldn't name anybody that was close to being able to close to what we could call black in the white house. >> now, let me ask you this, mr. mayor. yesterday your hometown senator, home state senator, corey booker announced and there was a big rally in newark. how do you assess the presidential race at this time on the democratic side for the nomination? >> i think it's a diverse field. it's good for america, good for us, the issues that we're talking about. some of them have not been talked about in the history of the country, reparations for african-americans, free college.

all these things are being discussed because of the diversity of the field. the senator had an excellent speech, hit all the major issues. i think most of these people sound alike. a lot of the nominees sound alike. they're going to have to struggle to distinguish themselves the from one another in the next coming weeks? >> isn't that the line they're going to have to thread, how do you distinguish yourself without helping the republicans they're going to oppose? and how do you counsel -- i know you support senator booker. but how would you counsel those in the race to be distinct? >> i think they stick to policy issues and talk around policy and be specific about what they want okay the do. not beat around the bush. be very straightforward, particularly when it comes to issues in our community that have been plaguing our commune tis for years. not only talk about the issues. what do you consider doing when you become the president of the

united states? what are you going to make happen? >> and one of the things that i've really took note of in newark is that the -- a lot of the intelligence and the pundits would say how is the private sector going to react. you've not only maintained it but have grown where there's a new spirit even with businesses in the newark area and has not done so at the expense of the community. >> we're struggling to make that happen. that's right. we are experiencing economic boom, billions of dollars in growth, and we're trying to do it the in equitable way, bringing the community in, creating opportunities around affordable housing, around ownership in the community. >> mayor, thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me. >> thanks for having me. to see every corne of your growing business.

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one today. my message is certainly not about golf. i'm not a golfer. my message is that what he showed is even when you fall, don't relax. get back up. keep coming even if everyone doubts you. whatever you face in life, don't ever give up. if wherever you're sitting watching this show, if someone pushes you off your seat to the ground, don't relax on the ground. it is not your job or your fault if someone pushes you down. but it's your job to get back up and keep going. whatever it is, keep going. don't give up. tiger proved today it may take a minute, but you can win again. that does it for me. thanks for watching. i'll see you back here next saturday at 5:00 p.m. eastern. up next, "meet the press" with chuck todd.

>> this sunday, immigration fight. president trump ups the stakes saying he may release migrants to sanctuary cities. >> they're always saying they have open arms, let's see if they have open arms. >> taunting states like california that oppose his policy. >> we can give them an unlimited supply. >> and urging homeland security to close the border as he publicly said he wouldn't. >> this suggests another notion that is unworthy of the presidency of the united states. >> plus spy games. when attorney general bill barr makes this claim without offering evidence. >> you're not suggesting, though, that spying occurred. >> spying did occur. yes, i think spying did occur. >> he pleases his new boss. >> i think what he said