>> the people doing that investigation were people caught that were known scoundrels. >> it was a complete and total exoneration. >> i guess you could say they're dirty cops. >> so it's complete exoneration, no collusion, no obstruction. thank you very much. >> okay. >> dirty scoundrels. >> tough to square why a bunch of dirty cops, deep state, would totally exonerate the target of their witch hunt. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, april 18th. along with willy, joe and me we have washington anchor for bbc america katty kay, and former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele, national security reporter for nbc news, julia ainsley is with us this morning. i want to frame the morning.

we're going to frame really the last two years. in just over three hours from now, attorney general william barr will hold a news conference to outline the redacted version of robert mueller's russia probe. the "new york times" and "washington post" have been looking at preparing for the mueller report. there's even a piece done on the reporters and how they prepare. and, willie, the three of us, we take it very seriously. >> we take it very seriously. >> you should have seen us last night preparing for the release of the report. so joe -- i mean, how great was that at the cutting room last night? >> i don't know where you found that crew, but, man, are they good. the place was packed. one woman came up to me and said i came from cincinnati to see the show. i said are you in town for spring break, are you here to

see "hamilton"? she said, no, we came from cincinnati just to see the show. >> the whole thing was amazing. right there in the smokey cutting room, that's how we prepared. >> and mika danced. >> doesn't show that. we'll go back. it was really fun, lemire was there, our whole crew was there. >> we have a new manager. he smiled and seems sweet, i looked at my check last night and he takes 85% off the top and then a 10% handling charge. his handling charge is like protection. but that's another 10%. >> and he's got the new hair cut. >> and he looks so nice. he doesn't look like a scoundrel. >> he's just trying to guarantee another show for you, joe. >> exactly. >> so we're super prepared and we got all of our sleep.

in just over three hours from now, attorney general william barr will hold a news conference to outline the redacted version of of robert mueller's russia probe. the public won't see the findings until well after barr puts his spin on it and maybe the president's, too. democrats are furious on both front and it looks like subpoenas will soon be flying, as former acting solicitor general neal katyal futures, we'll be covering barr's press conference on barr's description on barr's action and barr's determination of exoneration and barr's explanation of barr's supposedly light redactions and

barr's justification for not going to court to release grand jury material. and all that as north korea fires off a new tactical weapons test, showing everyone that the nuclear-armed nation hasn't gone away. >> a lot to start with. >> this prebuttal so to speak. >> so many problems obviously with an attorney general who is supposed to be a neutral arbiter and not a roy cohn-type figure, to the only holding it and having a press conference to spin it but making sure the the president of the united states and he and how many michael phelps of his inner circle are in jail now or have had felonies of the investigation, you have someone at the heart who was given an opportunity to review

the report before members of the press and the american people, who paid for it. >> the attorney general now is going out of his way to make this more complicated and confusing than it could be. he could have his press conference at 3 p.m., after congress has looked at it and the redacted version has been looked at by the public and have questions for the attorney general. but he wants to set a narrative in the morning. if that report comes out and some would say it is likely redacted and it exonerates the president as attorney general barr's four-page letter said that it did, that there was no collusion, i'll be happy there's no collusion, but we need to see the report and the way they're rolling this out just opens more questions. >> also, it is vintage trump to have someone to push someone out there and maybe even put himself out there, which he's saying he might do to try and brand it his way. he even had his daughter,

ivanka, during her travel being the queen of ethiopia and she also went as far as to say what the report doesn't say, there was no obstruction. on obstruction, we do know that the report says because barr quoted it that on obstruction it was not an exoneration. and ivanka was branding it from that from wherever she was, all of a sudden coming out of nowhere having her analysis of the report. then the attorney general of the united states doing this for the president, he may say he feels he needs to do this, this seems to me, just analysis here, exactly like something trump would do, push someone out to brand it and rebrand it itself and then the report comes out and we have to go through all of it and do our best to deal with it fairly with every piece of information painstakingly. >> but, michael, it's also short sighted. he does something once again

that is going to scuff up his reputation. absolutely his reputation is shot. here's a guy that served in washington for 30 years, had the respect of republicans -- he won't get his reputation back. it's shot. it's suly liesullied, the way h handled himself. i always accused donald trump of being a day trader. welfare refo well, this is being an hour trader. he's so desperate to put his spin on the report, he knows what he's doing is wrong. he knows attorney generals like loretta lynch gets in trouble for just having a conversation with bill clinton for a couple of hours. he has turned over an entire report to the white house. and let them prepare their rebuttal before the american people who paid for this report get to see it first, before the oversight committees in congress who have a constitutional duty

to review it have had a chance to see it. and the thing is, it's not like he's going to change the facts. this time tomorrow after everybody's read it, he's just going to look worse. >> this is the part that i scratch my head over, what little bit of hair i have left, i'm sitting there going, wait a minute, why do you need to prepare rebuttal? >> what are you rebutting? must be upset about what you're seeing. >> the president has been, no conclusion, i'm completely exonerated. >> i have to tell you, i'm worried about what happened to the country here, about what happened to our election process. >> that's never been a concern, mika, what happened to the country. the concern, as you saw in the clip with the first daughter and the president himself is about how this concerns the president

and how it impacts him. and to your point, joe, what is so damaging and this is what i've been hearing around town in d.c. the last days, just shock even among republicans, about what barr has done, the way he's played this has surprised and hurt a lot of people. >> he's got some people on the far right wing and just some sad, pathetic trump apologists that are trying to make this seem normal. it's a breach of norms. catt katty, bar mr may be the person ultimately responsible for changing the way we choose our attorney generals. we've seen the breaching of norms and political norms and it seems bizarre at this point that a president should be able to select their own attorney

general, who can decide how the investigations are run against them, who can decide which political enemies gets prosecuted, who can decide which political allies don't get prosecuted, can decide what corporations don't get prosecuted. i mean, the fact that -- i mean, donald trump has shown us actually a flaw, a significant flaw in our constitutional system of checks and balances. this is not the way america is supposed to run. >> and in a way, it's not just the attorney general. he's doing the same thing with the fed board. another area that was meant to be depoliticized. and he's politicizing that as well, too. i think there does need to be a discussion about what is the best way to protect certain positions from the prospect of politicization if you have a president who is prepared to shed norms and customs and go that wa he got the job with the

specific aim putting the best upon spin on the mueller report, whether it was in the summer or this press conference at 30 -- to take this report, which is potentially problematic to the president and spin it in the bernie sanders pop. >> that's because people haven't seen the material. >> mike: and like that again are breaches of constitutional norms, the republican senators own attorney general barr. >> yes. who the ones that gave donald trump his rouf in william is

behaving in all the darch ways that people worry about his nomination and potential to be attorney general, he's doing all the things people were worried about, which is first and foremost protecting the president. julia ainsley, what is the just physic . how are they defending having it not at, say, 3:30 rather than 9:30. >> there is no rationale, willie. we should be asking why they are having this press conference. why would you have a press conference at 9:30 before reporters even have a chance to read the report and ask questions. that was something we were pressing on yesterday before we got this 11 a.m. timetable. will we have it, will we not? nobody would say we can have it.

another thing i would be looking for is whether or not william barr brings up this issue of spying again. we know from his testimony last week but he's so if he brings that up today, whether it's a that is a very deliberate conflation of that story, that narrative that's been pushed by republicans and what is at the core of this i don't understand why we need more bar today that are ran so what's your sense about contact over the last

couple of weeks. there was reporting that the white house has been briefed by the justice department about what's inside the mueller report. perhaps that's why i saw that reporting and it's interesting. the idea that they have them briefed, especially when you've heard from white house lawyers who have said we're preparing this count are report and we'll release parts of it released to the public. so i don't know when they actually no exactly what or what might be redabted. but it clear there are people in and it's the question of the level of contactin between the justice department and the white house over what's in this report. >> on the level of contact between the white house and the justice department, i don't

know, it's some sort of sal. >> you'll see a lot of strong things come out tomorrow. attorney general barr has done a fantastic job. >> there's contact. way too much contact. >> this is something that donald trump has been talking about since he first got in the white house, one of his great frustrations that he can't role

the "new york times" reporting, they are preparing trump lawyers, preparing their prebuttal based upon what barr has told them. based upon, you know, copies of these. so the question is we've seen the democratic press conferences. you almost sense that everybody's just playing right into donald trump's hands. they get whipped into a frenzy and then it comes out. so let's move beyond this. so, yes, attorney general barr has prove i don't know once again that he's unfit to be attorney general of the united states of america. fine. full stop. let's put a period and move that to the side. what happens next? what happens? the democrats get it. what should we expect to see tomorrow and the next day and the next week? because chances are good this is going to start an entirely new process in the united states

house of representatives. >> yeah, the interesting thing -- let's talk about that little thing called timing. we are beginning the easter weekend, which leads to an easter week for the united states congress. there are no members of congress in washington right now. they will not be there for ten days. >> which, by the way, we should explain, that is what politicians do. they'll drop something around the 4th of july, they'll drop something around easter. >> but you don't drop this on a holiday weekend, particularly when you know on monday members of congress are not going to be there. for democrats, they're in the disadvantage of sitting there waiting in a space where they have this thing that's out there but they're not here in town realtime to address it. so it will be interesting to see. nancy pelosi's in europe or traveling right now. you've got other democratic leaders who are back in their districts. it will be interesting to see if there's some level of coordination next week that you

hear response to some degree from where they are, wherever they happen to be. that's part one. part two is going to be what happens when they get back, when they are back in the room with the rest of the folks here in washington and how they then respond. they've got the window to sort of set that messaging up but here's the problem, trump will have already predefined the space over the next ten days. that's going to be the real difficult part for democrats to step in that when they're not here to coordinate message and to sort of put that message out on the street. we'll see if nancy's able to do that from where she is and have her communications operations in play to do that, but it matters. the timing on this thing matters, joe. as you know, as a former member, when you're gone, pretty much everything steps. short of a world war situation, those members are back in their districts and to pull them from that to focus on a big national story can be challenging. >> willie, you know what they're

going to need to do is they're going to need to at least have enough people staying in town to drive that message. you have to own the weekend. you need to get the report. let them own thursday and friday because people aren't paying attention. democrats need to own saturday and sunday. they need to hold press conferences, they have to prepared and get the big easter morning headlines by what they reveal on saturday, which actually will hurt donald trump, and then they need to own the sunday shows, which will dominate the next week. so somebody needs to stay in town and they need to make sure that there is an explosion of news on saturday that completely dominates the cycle sunday and leading into next week. >> i expect some of the democrats will do that. you're absolutely right that this is not the end of something, it's the beginning of something else. the house judiciary committee has already authorized a subpoena for the full report. they'll probably issue that under jerry nadler. you have house and senate

investigations into all the issues the special counsel was looking into. this is going to go on and on and on. this is not over today by any stretch of the imagination. so julia, as folks wake up and tune in this morning, let's just lay out the day today. what does it look like? the barr press conference is at 9:30 a.m. eastern time. what happens before that and after that? >> before that we'll just see the justice department be full of reporters. it's only open to the d.o.j. press corps, those of us who have hard passes at d.o.j. that does limit the number of reporters who can be there. then we'll have that press conference at 9:30. sometimes between 11 and noon, they'll send copies to congress on cd and then sometime after that it will be on the special counsel's web site. i'm also asked questions of could this web site crash?

i've been told they're prepared for that and they think they have the band width to cover that. my question is what happens between the time between the press conference and when it goes public? >> can i just say pledges to notre dame -- come on, stirring resentment? >> well -- >> no, no well, no well. >> it's not just about rebuilding. it will be all the fights about how to rebuild. it's never going to be five years. >> if we're yelling at billi

billiona billionaires being billionaires, no thank you. we got together before the band played and we held hands and were weeping. >> virginia needs him. >> i had my gator jacket on, my gator cap on. >> terry mcauliffe says no. >> why? why? why won't gator -- >> he needs to come back on the show. >> come on, gator, get on the show. you know what, gator wants to come on and do shots again. >> you did some last night. how did that go for you? >> it was good. thank you for passing around the vodka shots. >> you guys are perky for people who were out late last night. >> i was there playing and mika liked to drink shots. >> it does well for you.

i'd do this every night because this is working for you. >> at the end i do my stage dive into the crowd, everybody was drunk, boom. >> it was fun. still ahead on "morning joe," a pair of presidential contenders. maybe pete buttigieg will be here on set. first, congressman tim ryan joins the conversation. also ahead, the latest on north korea's new provocation. and ivanka trump insisting she knows nothing on her father's intervention in her security process. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. [zara larsson - "wow"] ♪ ♪ baby i'm not even in a gown ♪ and the only thing u have to say is wow ♪

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whose first priority seems to be to make trump happy. >> you look at president obama. he had a massive campaign violation, but he had a different attorney general. we have somebody that they seem to like to go after a lot of republicans. jeff sessions recused himself. he took the job and then he said i'm going to recuse myself. i said what kind of a man is this? >> the attorney general says "i'm going to recuse myself." and i said why the hell didn't he tell me that before i put him in? >> reporter: [ inaudible ]. >> yes, i am. i think what he said is absolutely true. the attorney general was doing an excellent job. he's been a fantastic attorney general. he's grabbed it by the horn. >> the constitution and grabbed it by the horn. >> for the public release of the redacted mueller report -- we say redacted because it's ngoin

to be redacted. you're not going to see a lot of this. >> but don't worry, senior adviser ivanka trump cease unfazed by this while touring africa. >> i knew there was no collusion and there was affirmed in the mueller report and attorney general barr's subsequent summary. i never did. >> robert mueller never actually said that donald trump had been -- that his sins had been wiped free on the obstruction charge. >> i think she needs to check it again. if she would just even check william barr's summary, the one part he said is that obstruction

he was not exxonerateexonerated. >> ivanka also defended a previous statement that president trump had nothing to do with her or her husband's ability to sustain security clearances despite numerous reports that claim otherwise. >> i 100% stand by the statement i previously made. i have no evidence to the contrary. unfortunately, since i made that statement, there have been highly politicized inquiries into this very issue pertaining to numerous people in the white house. so the white house counsel's office has instructed us not to speak further on it, but i 100% stand by the statement that i made. >> reporter: you haven't asked him about it? >> no. intentionally. >> reporter: why is that? >> because i appreciated the fact that it was going through an ordinary process and i didn't

want to disrupt that. >> reporter: i mean since the reports have come out saying he was involved. >> no. >> it didn't go through an ordinary process. you have people who have been responsible for security clearances in the white house for years say time and time again certain people were not qualified and would be a risk if they were given security clearances because they would be threats for blackmail and there were other problems involved and donald trump said to hell with that and gave the security clearances anyway -- >> to his daughter and son-in-law. >> trisha newbold was the whistle blower who said there were 25 people whose applications for security clearances were rejected but those decisions were overturned. it's not politicized. it's from a whistleblower inside. >> isn't it a legitimate question when the president wants to hire in his daughter

and son-in-law, both of whom are completely not qualified for those positions, zero experience, zero. >> obviously there was concern this made him vulnerable to foreign manipulation offer r ex him to a conflict of interest, which is why his participation -- how many issues have been issued in china sin since -- for ivanka trump's business. those are things understandably the people in the intel community who are going through these processes have some concerns about. >> this is something, michael, that you again, regardless of who the relatives are, regardless of whether it was

bobby kennedy as j.f.k.'s attorney general -- >> i agree. >> regardless if it's ivanka or jared working for her father and his father-in-law, this is just something that shouldn't be done in the united states of america. again, it's caused great frustration inside the white house and the nepotism is just -- it's bad for the workings of the united states of america. regardless of their character or lack thereof, regardless of their conflicts or lack thereof, let's just start there because ivanka trump also said yesterday that she turned down the world bank job that her father offered to her. i wish my father had been baseball commissioner and i could have been an all-star shortstop. >> there you go. what was the president's response to that? well, i didn't do it because

people were saying something about nepotism. there's no nepotism. when you hire a member of your family -- >> who is not qualified and has -- >> but here's the rub at the end of the day. so what? what changes? so there's some bad reports about all of this. the individuals still have the security clearances. why? because he has the power to give it to them. at the end of the day he refigures or reconfigures the process to his own liking and he knows there's nothing that can be done to stop him from doing that. >> well, we've talked about checks and balances, we've talked about again, i've been thinking about the attorney general position for quite some time that there are some things because there are people like myself that said, oh, the institutions will hold, the institutions are fine, the institutions have held thus far but that's because good men and

women stood up at the right time, including jeff sessions when he recused himself. the attorney general, mr. barr, is now proving there are people that go in that are so craven for power that they actually will blow up constitutional norms. so whether you're looking at the attorney general possibly being selected like the fbi for ten years and i would say even by a supermajority of the united states senate, whether you're talking about a new way to look at these security clearances, there has to be a new way to look at the security clearances. we have to stop saying whatever the president says is declassified is declassified because after attacking hillary clinton throughout an entire campaign, for sending e-mails that might have been classified, he just blabs to the foreign minister of russia and blabs. and every time he does something reckless and irresponsible that concerns the intelligence community, everybody goes, well,

if the president says it's not classified, then it's not classified. wrong. that's the wrong answer. the president should be indicted, democratic or republican presidents. you can't shoot somebody in fifth avenue add ride it out. you can't be in a position where if he's not re-elected, he might be sent to jail or indicted but if he is re-elected, he still can't be indicted. wrong. and it's wrong for us to -- there are a system of economics and balances to be in place. we had a 9/11 commission. we need a constitutional i don't want to say convention because that will suggest -- >> don't do that! >> i don't want to be the state of california. we need a constitutional review

by brilliant republican and democratic conservative, liberal scholars a can look at it. i appoint george conway to run the whole thing. i'm dead serious. he's a conservative jurist. they get together and figure out what doesn't work when you have somebody that is a would be tyrant in the white house? >> you said in the beginning, you reminded us this has put the spotlight on the attorney's position. it's also reminded us that democracy is made up of customs and norms and you can already do serious damage to the process and the workings of democracy so you have to codify some of it. >> there are some things we cannot depend on when it comes to the goodwill of the president of the united states. one is allowing an attorney general that he or she picks to

determine whether his friends or allies are indicted, whether his friends or allies are let off the hook and l an investigation that sends five, six, seven of his people to being indicted and convicted, whether that president gets to run that process. >> i totally agree with all of that. but two things on all of this. one, what you're talking about is a post-trump process because none of that's going to change between now and the election. and certainly if he gets re-elected it won't. we're talking about a post-trump process there. two, you made the point about the checks and balances. who's there to check? we're talking about leadership in the administration that's all acting. >> acting or not -- >> so a lot of the people who came in to be that appropriate check, remember the conversation two years ago, republicans in town oh, we're not worried about

trump, we have the checks and balances, we have a way to process all of this. he's thrown all of that out and with it a lot of individuals -- >> right before everybody's ices. >> mika, rod rosenstein was a check. now he's barr's lap dog. >> we'll see what happens today. of course this is all building up to the morning for the big reveal to the redacted mueller report. coming up, we've got the nicest guys running for president in the studio today, congressman and 2020 candidate tim ryan is standing by. >> nice guy! >> he is so nice. nice is important. he joins the conversation next on "morning joe." rsation next on "morning joe. ♪ every day, visionaries are creating the future. ♪

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all right, joining us now, he is very nice -- >> you don't know that. >> well, you've been shocking him with your discussions here that we don't need to repeat. >> i didn't hear any of that. i heard nothing. >> michael steele, really. >> i'm with tim. >> so you've got the first question. >> i expected better of you, my snl skit. >> so let's talk about your --

>> i'm out! i'm out! >> i have no problem saying it. you're a nice guy. >> congressman tom sawyer? no, congressman traficant. >> he would go around and call anybody mr. >> joe, tim is running for president. >> one time he goes up on the floor and he says, "what is wrong with this picture"? and ileana ross leighton yells out "your hair?"

>> a friend of mine said you should set up the debate stage with three years, you, your opponent and a chair with your toupee in it. >> how do you break through a field of 35, 40, 50 people by the end? >> focusing on what i think is the real national emergency in the country, and that's the struggles that every day people are going through. >> are you the only candidate doing that? >> well, my focus is primarily on the economic and anxiety level of people and that's what i'm hearing in the field, that they like my message because that's what i'm talking about. it's not just the economic anxiety that's coming that people in the bottom 60% haven't seen a raise since 1980, but it's taking its toll on people. people are exhausted. the anxiety level is high around health care, the mental health issues, the addiction issues. >> so you understand why people

voted for trump in -- >> i totally get it it. >> a lot of your democratic opponents don't. you understand. tell people watching the show why so many people across ohio bolted in donald trump's direction after in 2012 ohio was a solid state for barack obama. >> he spoke directly to their anxiety, he spoke directly to their economic need, the fact that they haven't seen a raise, that they do struggle with health care. let's think about what he was campaigning on. he said i'm going to open the steel mills, open the coal mines, get you back to work, raise taxes on the top 1%. >> he said all of that and then we learned quickly that he lied. >> right. then he torched the joint. >> how do you get people who are now predisposed to vote for him again because they don't want to hear the lies from the media, they don't want to hear the lies

from the democrats. anything that is true donald trump tells them is a lie and many believe him. so how do you break that cycle? >> because he hasn't delivered. that's the reality of it. >> how do you tell people he hasn't delivered. >> all have i to i have to do i. the 1,700 workers at the general motors plant in lordstown, ohio, they know things aren't better. >> so we're at the gate, we're shaking hands, you have one minute while you're shaking my hand to tell me why my vote was for the wrong guy. >> we need an industrial policy in the united states. >> what's that? >> we need to use the government, the tax code, every ounce of power we have in the united states as president to drive manufacturing back into the united states. there's going to be -- >> can you bring my jobs back? >> i'm not going to bring this job back that you've had. i'm going to bring you the

nextgen racial of jobs. if you want steel mills and coal mil mills, you're not going to -- >> what are you going to do about health care? you going to fix obamacare? i have a kid that's 25. >> we have to have a place -- >> are you going to take my guns? >> i'm not going to take my guns. i'd be happy to go hunting with you if you'd like to. but we do need reasonable background checks. >> what about that omar lady? does she like america? she doesn't seem to like america. >> you can't laugh at him because you lost his vote. >> i'm laughing at you being the trump supporter from ohio. it just kind of funny. >> most democrats that are

running live in a bubble. you don't because you're from youngstown, ohio and you get this. >> that's why he offered to go hunting. >> i want other democrats that are running to get. what do you say when they go that omarr lady, i see a lot of stuff on fox news. this is the president's consistent attempt to divide the united states. all find something, people of color, people from a different religion -- >> but you said that stuff aboabou about 9/11 -- >> because we're so divided, we can't get anything done. the president throws gasoline on every cultural riff we have. you know who likes that, joe? the russians. >> my name is not joe, it's pete. >> you know who likes that, pete? china. china is cleaning our clock.

it's not a line. they control 40% of the electric vehicle market, they control 60% of the solar panel market. you want to win and bring manufacturing jobs, you better have a national pollwhat about i'm seeing all this stuff in the news about babies that can be aported at nine months. that's just -- that's wrong. what do we do about that? are you going to support that, too? >> look, the reality of it is you got to protect a when do you start protecting the baby? >> when are we going to start talking about jobs in the united states? >> but i'm telling you the guy at the factory gate is not asking that question. the guy at the factory gate is conce concern. >> you do think it's shameful what drot has been doing to

representative omarr, don't you? >> course it's shameful. i would say i read her speech. at the end she talked about american values, about why she came to the united states. >> that's garbage. people should be ashamed for twister her words the way they have. they should be ashamed and the president should be ashamed for risking her life and the life of her family. >> are you pete or joe? >> i've become joe. >> it's all right, it's been a long night. >> he can answer his questions and this way he can win. >> if democrats can't speak to the struggle, people are tired of just getting by. they want to thrive. they want their kids to thrive. and if i have an agenda that's going to go into these communities and go into these schools. you look at what's happening in our country, joe. we're not having the re75% of

health care costs come from chronic diseases that are largely preventable. that is not even a part of the national conversation. mental health and mental well being in the united states, for 30 years people have been struggling. it is taking its toll on. >> that's al bahman, not ohio. >> let me ask about immigration, congressman. that's another question where i think a lot of people in youngs probably say i'm looking at a lot of these democrats and it seems like they want people to come in asylum seekers should have a path to get into the country. what do you say to them about balancing that with having

border security, secure boreders? >> we need to have a secure border. we need to know who is coming in and out of the country. i represent ohio. we have a terrible opiate epidemic. but putting a wallop in the middle of the rio grand river is not the answer. and eminent domaining they're coming in through the water and the united states postal service. the president is so distracted that he's forgetting how to really. >> you believe a pathway to citizenship who comes here undocumented and illegal is way to go? >> absolutely. i think the president kwai

frankly is lady this problem in central america needs to be solved in central mche's doing the exact opposite. he's cutting the -- if the president is doing his job, that problem will be that works on a general election strategy. but you're running on the democratic primary. >> and how do you navigate this space with 20-plus people who seem to be pulling the farther fully to the left. >> most people want to beat

trump. i believe i but i believe that really speaking to people's fears, their insecurities about the economic situation, their health care situation is something that's going to distinguish me because have i real solutions that are going to help address this. talking about or kids. what's happening? we need to get social and emotional learning into our schools. >> dbt. >> over 50% of our public school kid live in poverty. they have all we've got to have innovative that go these has to which seconds the kids to other kids in the school, to their teacher, to their community, it reduces their anxiety level.

>> i want to talk to you about that next time, the whol mindfulness concept a lot of schools are putting in. >> it's an 11 percentile increase. >> you definitely understand the trump voters. have you ever wrestled an alligator? >> i have not. >> oh geez! >> sorry. >> a bear? >> no r. >> you're going to need to work on that. everything else is pretty good. i thought you were going to be the top one here. it's mika. >> let's send him a clip of sympathy pro. >> and the other guys if i'm

asking myself what just happened snp. >> welcome to "morning joe." listen, are you around here much? >> a little bit. >> when come here by the way, we're going to make you the offer we make every candidate, if you're on the campaign trail, give us a call. pick up the phone, call us and say, hey, i'm up here in can be do, can but we'll give you 90 seconds free time wherever you are. if you're on a longer interview -- >> i'm going to bump this. >> a.j.: i'm going to iowa today. i'll see you tomorrow. >> mike: why don't the most,

sighting thing for me was when you knocked on people's doors and they told you things that nobody was telling you on tv. report from the field, what are people talking about? >> we tauched upon that at the beginning of this interview. >> i'm going to accepted dave and after you do it for the kids, maybe you can do it for mika. >> i need a lot of mindfulness. >> you are in a constant stage of fight or flight. >> all right, guys. >> thank you. >> we'll be back in two minutes. >> alex is mad. n two minutes. >> alex is mad the way they subscribe to movies. we don't follow the naysayers. ♪ ♪

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you'll see a lot of very strong things come out tomorrow. attorney general barr is going to be giving a press conference.

he's been a fantastic attorney general. he's grabbed it by the horn. >> oh, he grabbed it all right, which is exactly why bob mueller's team started leaking their concerns about the attorney general's conduct. in just over two hours, the attorney general will be in front of the cameras briefing reporters on redabted -- redacted findings of the russian probe that won't be released to the american people until hours later. it really seems like malpractice, doesn't it? >> yeah, it kind of does. >> i love the leading question. >> one of the big questions this morning, just how much of it the trump team has already seen. of course the white house has received several briefings from top officials at the d.o.j. well, that's appropriate. welcome back to "morning joe." it is thursday, april 18. >> it's so good to have you at the breakfast table.

>> with joe, willie and me, we have katty kay, msnbc political senior writer jake sherman, also author of "the hill to die on." >> how's it going? >> best seller. >> also with us national security expert, columnist at "usa today" and author of the book "the death of expertise," tom nichols is with us. and because correspondent for bloomberg news, shannon pettypiece. >> whenever we introduce tom nichol nichols, just like with k.c.d.c., we need the opening rift to "whole lot of love." >> that seems like it doesn't match. jake, i just want to ask you first of all, i'm not really good at math but a best selling

book, from what i've heard, you've made like $23 million, your own private jet, a bentley outside. i said don't send the morning joe car, i have my own bentley. >> how are democrats going to respond? what's it going to look like after this circus that the attorney general and the president are putting on this morning? >> first of all, i think you probably have talked about this, i was getting make-up done but schumer and pelosi have already called for mueller to testify on capitol hill. this is going to be a long process. i think this is the beginning of a legal process and a political process. i think democrats are not going to be happy no matter what happens, no matter what barr releases. i think republicans are going to be mute. i don't think there's any republican who is looking to

toss the president overboard period. this is lucky for trump. congress is out for the next week and a half. so no one is going to be on capitol hill. in normal times we'd be chasing people around with recorders. everyone's gone. pelosi's in europe, kevin mccarthy's in south america. >> wow, what interesting timing what could that be about? >> katty was talking earlier about the importance of constitutional nor aal norms, p norms that donald trump shatters time and time again. how does this play in to your ongoing concerns about those constitutional and political norms being shattered by donald trump? "the new york times" is already showing a report that basically examines the criminal conduct of people all around him and looked into the possible criminal conduct of the president himself.

>> a moment ago we were using the word malpractice. this isn't malpractice. this is the attorney general doing exactly what he thinks he's supposed to be doing. malpractice implies that somehow you've made a mistake or you don't know your job. i think this is exactly what the attorney general thinks he should be doing, which is -- i suppose they're releasing it now because christmas eve was too far away. or, you know, super bowl sunday. so they're releasing it at the most on tune time. they're putting it out in dribs and drabs. next we're going to fight over the redactions, next we'll have a fight over the fight for the redactions and the goal here is to just wear people out and remind them coming back to this question of norms is to get people away from this question of norms and to simply make them think that the whole business is just too complicated and it's too tiresome and too exhausting

and they'll just go for the top line, which is the president will hammer over and over again, which is no collusion. he will take that and make it mean that nothing bad or improper in any way has ever happened simply because there was no one charge. >> so manipulating the truth might be a better way of putting it. >> or creating a new truth. >> maybe just lying. >> so shannon pettypiece, let's put process aside for a second. i think we agree it's insane to have the press conference before anyone has read it. 9:30 a.m., after that the public will get a different version, more highly redacted. you've been reporting jove night about what's going to be inside the report, including perhaps some answers to the questions why the special counsel -- i think the most meaty section of

this is be will be the obstruction we're given voluntarily so they were not part of the grand jury. bar's already indicated there's not going to be -- trump's not trying to exert executive privilege. whereas all of the information is protected by the grand jury rules. i think both sides are going to be disappointed on what they get there because we know that barr has said sort of the structure of this report, mueller has laid out both sides of the obstruction evidence. so the side that looks like obstruction and the sort of more innocent explanation that the president and his allies have given in their testimony. and we also know that the law is just confusing and muddy around construction. if you're binaries could and it

has to do with nuances and how the law is and i think that he will where we'll see the most fight, confusion and disappointment. >> you also point out people should not expect a grand narrative of the 2016 campaign beginning with donald trump desending down the escalator in 2015 but more of a clinical, legal document in fact. >> right. this is not the star report because the rules the special counsel is i don't believe this is going to read like a spy novel. this was supposed to be a confidential report that laid out who was being indicted and who was vetted and not being indict that information will be redacted. so if they investigated paul

manafort and fount out about things he wasn't charged with, maybe things that are embarrassing or unsavoringy, would be redacted. and to jake's point, there will continue to be a legal battle to get the information out. >> if both side are unsatisfied, inherently because of the idea of intent, that puts democrats also in a striky position, doesn't it, because partly because they're not here and partly because bill barr's job right in the very beginning and to give willing for the president. he did thatand it's hard for democrats, particularly democrats are to.

>> i think what you're going to see a lot of over the next two and three weeks is asking rm why he did not interview drpt to get that that intend why didn't he do everything that he could to speak to the president in this investigation. that would help establish intent if you believe he obstructed justice. >> so nobody wants to criticize robert mueller other than the president of the united states. democrats and republicans alike. but are you hearing a lot of frustration from the hill about the fact that robert mueller, after all of these months, years, seemed to come up short on quite a few things. like, for instance, not providing -- not pushing the president to come testify. not challenging this president, taking it all the way to the supreme court, which i think the

supreme court would have required the president to testify and mueller didn't even push that. also, not just adding a line in there about obstruction of justice saying i'll leave it to congress to make this determination and instead of allowing himself and his work to be twisted and des torted by the attorney general. >> there is frustration but democrats have build bob mueller up to be a god-like figure over two yoors. and mueller's been remarkably quiet. this is going to be the narrative over the next couple of weeks, i guarantee it. >> robert mueller knows, this and he's not going to come to

the hill and trash the attorney general. he's not going to come to the hill and trash the justice department. he's a pro i think it going to have to stay within the four walls of the report that's released by bill barr. i'm not sure he's going to come to the capital and talk freely this is also perilous for democrats to have him on the hill. if he says i did what i could and i couldn't get the democrats to talk to me, democrats are out of what they are calling, quote,

a new type of tactical weapon, which carries a powerful war -- >> he apparently observed yesterday's test of the unpes spied weapon. so don't think you would think the ancht p. reports it could be a new type the test appears to break a promise trump says kim made to him back in hanoi. >> there's no more testing. and one of the things, importantly, that chairman kim promised me last night is regardless, he's not going to do

testing of rockets and nuclear. here not going to do. >> both trump and kim recently said they're open to a third summit, with trump adding looking for today and called for secretary of state mike poemio to be replaced in sugar talks. which means, yes, kim and trump are soul mates. >> and kim said of pompeo when he, quote, pokes his nose in, the talks go wrong. north korea wants someone, quote, more careful and ma sure

this is a live picture of william br pb before he will address the mueller report where any of us or even if congress gets to lock at it. go ahead, tom. >> maybe one or two more sum it's and the north koreans can land in san diego. if only there had been experts that could have predicted this. the north creeps are now in charge of this process, they're pecking ands and we want sanctions relief and if you have don't, we're going to keep humiliating you. i'm not sure what this weapon is. a tactical weapon is a short-range weapon.

could be anti-aircraft, could could be a cruise missile. mostly it's a webbon of mass embarrassment for the administration. it designed to street than to force the president to come forward, treat kim like a peer and an equal to the united states and to go and this is not going to get better. this is going to continue down this road because kim has learned the lesson that this kind of stuff works. >> it heuer if you. you think he did that right after "the reckoning." early 80s. i'm always fascinated by the disconnect between the united states and europe on things that we consider to be extension or

iraq in the 1990s and also before the 2003 war. >> what about north kaek? . as far as singing as an exstrgs sfr sfrch. >> up until trump, if had anyone anybody about north krae, they would have said it the biggest prospect of the world and then certainlying them on to on-steam actors. nobody about these sum is and everything more than a credit opportunity more than a credit

opportunit and if they're going not going o got them, they're going to what are you hearing? >> we know itting is about 400 pages. this t is going to be rar significantly redacted. i nope they're trying to redact as little as possible. i would just worn everybody to disagree and democrats will think it's the imagery writing against people that are popped there. if nothing ls it's not 400 pages

that say no conclusion, no collusion, no collusion. i think the president will hold hod a gentlemen and he's going to attempt to have do not look at this new meeting we don't know about involving russians. they're going to say just look at the bottom line results, case closed, let's move on. that's the messaging i'm expecting from the white house. >> jake. >> also the political dynamics are what would surprise everybody? we know his campaign had people tied to the russian government. what could be there as very little to be honest. >> mike: joe, what do congratulations do at this jung

oh he waswas -- it very hard for them. er that on break. how do they shift this? >> i always thought my staff think in the headlines. what do you want the headline to be a week from now, three days from now. so understand that the headline on friday is going to be barr, it's going to be trump saying so something outrageous. and again the big day is saturday. because if you hold a press conference, they will come. because trump was always brillia brilliant. saturday mornings, he would tweet something at 7:00 in the morning, not just because he was a sad, lonely man i which would

then begin to drive the press coverage the folg week. so democrats, i don't care where they are, come home, hold a press conference on saturday, give yours staff and your members 24 hours to digest this report and come out and hammer it. you will dominate headlines or and shannon, pelley ps thank you all. coming up, if you need proof that mayor pete is started to get noticed, just tune in to late night." t tune in to late night."

i'm a rhodes scholar. harvard bribed me to go. that's how i got the nickname aunt becky. >> coming up, the presidential candidate joins the set live here on "morning joe." t live here on "morning joe." version o. because here, you can choose any car in the aisle, even if it's a better car class than the one you reserved. so no matter what, you're guaranteed to have a perfect drive. [laughter] (vo) go national. go like a pro. see what i did there? and i don't add trup the years.s. but what i do count on... is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. boost® high protein. be up for life.

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you're watching mayor pete budget j buttigieg's announcement. >> by age 14 i knew i wanted to be president of the united states. the years have flown by. i'm a rhodes scholar, the two smartest kids in the navy. nowadays most of you recognize me from the rallying cries of hope i have stirred across the nation. but others know me as "the boy who became mayor" only on disney

channel. >> oh, my god. i don't know. that's okay. joining us now, mayor of south bend, indiana, pete buttigieg. after launching a presidential exploratory committee, mayor pete on sunday formally declared his candidacy for his 2020 nomination. i was watching that. that was so much fun. >> you were talking tiger in the other room. >> really, you need to watch tiger for a couple hours. i went and watched tiger. you guys waited. smart thing to do. it was quite an announcement. i -- i was really taken by your interview with rachel the other night, rachel maddow. i did not realize until the interview that you had not actually told your parents that

you were gay until after you came back from the war. is that right? >> that's true. >> so the question was and it was so fascinating, what were you more fearful of? combat duty or telling your mom and dad? >> yeah, it was -- i'd say that was a fair question. i mean, you're a war veteran, a sitting mayor, and my palms were sweating. and my parents are wonderful. when you're not out, there's a lot of energy that goes into not being out. but when you do, even when you

expect or hope it will go well, there's a level -- i don't know how to describe it. when i was getting on a plane going to afghanistan, i more or less knew what was going to happen, i was physically surrounded by dozens or hundreds of people doing the exact same thing. you have a little more of a peace of mind there than you do taking the leap of coming out. >> talk about making that decision, moving forward to deciding to run for president of the united states. of a all you've been through at your young age, i would guess what seems to be such a life threatening, scary decision to you don't seem quite as significant. >> i don't mean to minimize the gravity of putting yourself in line for the highest position in

the last -- >> you wouldn't say, for instance, "i was born to do this" on the cover of "vanity fair," probably not? >> i think of it a little differently. as a mayor, you get a kind of muscle memory for not just decision making but how to conduct yourself, how to handle television exposure, criticism. all of those things that come with public office. what i'm experiencing now is of course a radically different scale. making the decision was one of saying where do i fit? the way you should come to any decision, you map the office, what does it need, what does it call for? and then you think about what you represent and bring to the table. at any given moment, it could be a different answer. that's the process that led me to not run for office. a couple of times i thought of

running for conference and the stay treasury race to running for dnc chair. not so much in terms of could i win, but in terms of what combination of things does this office need? as improbable as it is, you think about an office that is occupied by somebody with a lot of frantic arm waving and attention-seeking behavior, a moment when there is a lot of frustration that the heartland isn't being spoken for and maybe for the one time in a hundred years where the exact person like me is what the position is calling for. >> earlier today i had a question which had to do about health care, which seems to be the top issue, certainly in democrats' minds but even in the

general election it will be. i asked him what do you say to the factory worker who asks you a question about health care and says, you know what, we have health care through my wife, i don't have health care anymore, my wife has a job, has health care but it doesn't really do enough for us. we'd love the government to be more involved, we'd love obamacare to get fixed but we still want to go to the doctor that we've grown up with. what do you say to that ex-factory worker? >> that's what i -- >> can you have it both ways, a medicare for all who want it and the old traditional system? >> i think if we debt it right, the traditional system will -- it's giving the traditional system one last chance to improve itself. i don't think it will all add up -- >> why are you skeptical it wouldn't add up?

>> you look at the things that make it the case, pretty much every country with a single pay environment, it's not only covering me people but it's covering people more effectively. >> we spend more money on health care per patient than any country in the world, we don't get the results. when you talk that way, people start talking about beadeath pas and rationing. all of a sudden you're not going to let me go to my doctor, you're going to ration my health care and there are going to be death panels. >> well, seeing is believing. convince as many people as you can, you implement a policy and if you are wrong, your policy didn't work, you're run out on a rail. in south bend, we did public meetings, we implement the policy but in the end seeing is

believing and the story you're telling i think is a great example. think of the political life of the aca, how it went in eight years from being the toxic issues we got murdered over in 2018 2010 over a winning issue in 2018. of course the death panels didn't happen, good coverage did happen for more people than before and a lot of people who couldn't get coverage at all were in better shape. so you have to have the courage to launch a program, you convince people as much as you can but then you do it. and if you were wrong, deservedly you'll be punished for that in a reelection. >> the mueller report redacted version being released today. what do you think of attorney general barr holding a press conference before? >> it's really disturbing but more evidence of this administration's attitude on

transparency. another thing i learned very quickly as mayor, if people don't have full information, they're going to full in the blanks and they're going to fill in the worst. i imagine what's happening here, there's a lot of redaction and i'm guessing they want to fill in the blanks a certain way, put a certain idea in our heads before we have a chance to formulate our own opinion. the solution is maximum transparency. on our most sensitive issues at home, we try to as much information as we could and we just published them online so everybody could read them and didn't have to dig them up out of the courtroom themselves. so if we were going to get beat up on something, at least it was factual and we could explain our choices, admit to anything that could have been done differently and move on.

if i was advising a president at a moment like this, i would advise being as transparent as you can. instead it sounds like what they want to do is describe this and then turn it over. >> there's a great deal of energy surrounding your campaign. about your base, the support appears to be be coming from overwhelmingly white voters and households with a high annual income. steve kornacki described this as an early warning sign about your viability for the democrat being nomination. take a listen to what he said. >> the support that he's attr t attracting right now, if you look in these national polls, it comes dispro partialatly from white voters and when his nm and it comes from self-described liberal or very liberal voters.

>> very interesting. >> you can go all the way and the one thing all of those candidates have in common. they got traction at some point the primaries and they failed to cross offer to african-american voters. >> maybe pete we shall have good news and bad news. the good news is you dominate like brooklyn -- like people in brooklyn who like to wake up to their deconstructed chai lattes. that's your crowd, my friend. how do you expand your appeal and expand your appeal in a way that bernie sanders didn't in 2016 because you're pretty good in iowa, new hampshire, if you keep moving forward it looks good. but then you take a turn and you go to south carolina and the deep south. how do you attract black voters, latino voters, how do you

attract people who really haven't heard of you and -- >> it's extremely important. and we're very attentive to that. i think you do it through substance and organizing. substance is making sure you get a a message out in substance. and also reaching out to audiences when we're making appearances to broaden our coalition. i keep coming back to my experience from home. om from a diverse city, about 45% nonwhite. we had a similar pattern when i was running for mayor. it felt like all the support was coming from the more affluent east i'd of election. so we really campaigned hard and organized hard to make sure that message reached everybody.

in the end, the majority and majority districts of or but what you can do is make sure you're finding the touch points. in the minority communities as well, there as an interesting the newer generation leaders organize themselves in different ways than people who were part of my parents you've done something a lot of democrats have been a. they like you. but they get to the point where they look down your resumé and they say life is precious. they talk about the sanctity of life and they can't get past your support of late-term

abortion. what to i think any pro-choice official or candidate from a conservative state faces. i respect and understand where people are po and the way this is characterized is by asking questions that almost in themselves are misleading about the medical situations that women face. not to mention just the personal decisions that they're confronted with. to me it's a very complex issue that should be guided by a very simple principle, which is having these things dictated by government does not make that decision any easier. in some ways, some of these questions are religious or media physical. er that when you're wrestling

with an incredibly painful set of decisions -- in these horrifying medical cases around or is at tremendous risk. that's not something you can compute the right answer to. that is something that happens as a matter of conscience. >> but to people who would criticize that, they would say it's a pretty easy -- that is a human being who could be born alive and have a great and full life. so who would criticize your answer? >> the promise of the question is very misleading. >> you don't get to that stage, i don't get to that la if you have been planning to bring a pregnancy to term.

these are. >> i see how it might be helpful to take outside counsel in the form of what a doctor has to say. doctors, by the way, who are committed to preserving and protecting life. that's why they're doctors. it might be useful to call in the counsel to whoever you turn to for morals and and the counsel of a medical professional, that somebody else who comes in with their irn at theation and their michael steele and katty kay will join in the conversation. we'll be right back. ill join in the conversation. we'll be right back. they're the ones who see a city that make those who live in it feel a little safer.

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all right. you're looking at a live shot of the department of justice in washington, d.c. >> so where do you think they're going to put roy cohn's portrait inside of there?

>> i'm not sure but he's going to brief reporters on the mueller report before the mueller report is given to reporters. so the president and his attorney, the attorney general of the united states, really the people's attorney, but he's lawyer for trump today. >> i'm going to ask you a couple questions, mayor pete. willie talked about faith. i'm curious, reporters asked donald trump what his -- is he an old test ament guy, new testament guy, what his favorite scripture was and he said "i like 'em all," especially two co corinth i corinthians. is there a part of the bible you go to solace in difficult times? >> i'd say the worse your day is going, the more the psalms are the place to go.

i draw most of the ethical counsel is in the new testament but the songs capture anguish i think in a really healing way sometimes and they're so poetic. there's this amazing translation tradition about how you try to capture the hebrew poetry of the songs. but when i'm thinking about ethics, about how to live, i'm thinking about the scriptures about how you're supposed to have the same mind as christ, the idea of the imitation of christ comes from, that can comes in divine, doesn't take advantage of that but rather views that as a reason to humble himself. i think for good reason the beattitudes are such a touchstone for us. and it's amazing, you know, for a body that -- a body of words that is touched and used in so many different ways, you can still, at least for me, find

something new every time you open up the bible, every time you turn to scripture, find something you hadn't thought about before. >> katty? >> you've had a lot of experience being a mayor of south bend. that doesn't give you a lot of policy experience. how do you in a world that's uncertain, with russia throwing its mite around, economic at the moment but it could be military, who knows in the next presidential term, what qualifies you to lead america in an unstable world? >> the truth is i probably learned as much about foreign policy when i was driving a vehicle around afghanistan as i did when i was studying international relations at oxford. but none of this is theoretical today. we're in a moment where, you know, the u.s. has to face this increasingly multi-polar world, different models being held up. remember, because of the chaos here at home, more and more

people are being asked to look at the chinese model as an orderly, stable alternative, which is something that frightens me because we're talking at best a kind rushing in to fill the void every time american leadership is withdrawn from or area. just in the form of soft pour or the diplomatic aid that we might have been providing in central america, the chinese are coming with things like the beltan road initiative. they're thinking in long-term planning mode. and if we have a strategy is being informsvested at a fracti that. >> what would you do to keep america ahead? >> first of all, investments at home. we also need to have a more competitive edge. that means investing in

artificial intelligence research, recognizing that the very space in which we're contesting these power dynamics, the hard power and soft power are around us. the pivot to asia that took place in the boston marathon ob administration was a good thing. but do we still believe that the world is a more stable and safe place for america. if the values are vindicated on the international stage so making excuses for saudi arabia, conferring legitimacy on north korea, if we're being taken advantage of by vladimir putin and if we have very little to say about bad actions coming from china then it becomes harder and harder for the american values that i still believe in and i think are universal values to win the day and that creates a much more dangerous environment for us before you even get to tactics

around military readiness and the more conventional hard power tools that we use to secure the homeland. >> so mr. mayor, it's good to have a fellow ro dell in the spotlight here. i appreciate your effort but here's the deal. a lot of republicans are being warned about you and joe and mika just touched on a number of the reasons why in terms of how you come at this -- your faith, your relationship with god, et cetera. and so there's that concern on that piece, but how do you see yourself fitting in with the rest of your democratic field right now? are you as progressive as they are? how do you define social -- being a social democrat? are you a social democrat? what does that mean if you're going to pursue the democratic nomination as you climb up that ladder and how does it all fit for mayor pete versus

presidential candidate pete? >> so i think first of all it's a good sign if warning bells are going off. i think early on they thought i was awe doorable. now it looks like we're getting somewhere. some of the income is starting to pick up too. adorbs. >> mika says you're adorbs. >> i talk a lot about what it means to be a democratic capitalist with an emphasis on democratic. and i think that the democratic electorate too is less side logical than we think. what i'm getting at is the reality is about 80% of what 20 or however many of us there are now. about 80% of what we have to say will converge in the policy space. there will be some differences in emphasis. a few signature policies that only one candidate has, there

will be a few areas where we disagree. but the democratic message is pretty well aligned. we bant want to protect society return decency to the white house. a lot of distinctions are a manner of approach and part of what's helping hold the people together in my previous political experience is to be very forthright about my progressive values, but also make sure that i convey that in a way that even people who have different values see that i came by that honestly and i find you get credit for that. a lot of times i'll get a lot of credits among republicans not by pretending to be more conservative than i am but to be straightforward about the values that motivate me and being focused on results and i think the 90s play book where you got to end pendents and republicans,

the best feedback i get from across the aisle is from an an interviewer and a speech where i thought i was tacking pretty left but something about the way i said things or an effort i made to explain it in a fashion that appeals across the aisle reached people who might not have tuned in otherwise. >> you mentioned your military service. you graduated from harvard. you're on a glide path to a very comfortable life. but you decided to volunteer and serve in afghanistan. i'm interested in the decision, something you certainly didn't have to do. there's no compulsory military service at this point in this country. less than 1% of men and women like you go and do the fighting. tell me about the decision to go to afghanistan. >> the funny thing is, a couple l of generations oeg, if you had gone to harvard that would be more likely that you would be expected to serve. you think about the young generations of a john kennedy

and george h.w. bush and based on that idea of them two much is given, much is expected. it's assumed that people like that would go serve. >> that's not true anymore so why did you do it? >> because i realized i was part of the problem. so i'm not the sign of a wealthy and powerful family but i did have the privilege of an amazing education and i'd always kind of sort of wanted to serve. there had been a family tradition. my grandfather was career military, my mom grew up in a military household, but there's always some reason or some excuse not to do it. the thing that put me over the top was in 2008 i was knocking on doors for barack obama. very low income area, very rural and it felt like every time i met a young man, some of them looked like children to me, we had a conversation about them going to -- they were on their way to basic training, on their way to the guard and i thought these communities are emptying their youth out into the military and i started doing the

math in my head and i could count on one hand the number of people i knew at harvard had gone on to serve. i thought, wow, you know, this very thing that used to knit people together across class divides, the environment where john kennedy is on the same level as a worker from indiana has now become something that's deepened the class divisions in our country and if i'm not there, who? . and i realized that somebody who -- i wound up joining the reserve because i thought i should be at least susceptible at getting called up as anybody is and i'm so glad i did. because then i got to know people with radically different backgrounds especially when i was deployed. you know, people i had nothing in common with other than being american but we learned to trust each other with our lives. >> thanks being with us. first of all, you had a chance

to meet tim mcgraw. that had to be very exciting. >> yeah, he came and played a show. we saw him backstage. >> he and brad paisley. >> okay. so he said the name. >> oh, really? >> what did i do? >> okay. >> so they won't be my red neck advisory counsel. >> so you do know who this man is. because let me tell you something, brad paisley says he walked right past you and you were like, hello young man. and your husband was horrified that you did not -- i know you're a busy man. but that is brad paisley. >> it was born with a condition called celebrity blindness. >> oh, i have that. >> sometimes i meet an extremely famous person and i don't know who they are. i appreciated brad paisley's work. at that hour of the morning i should have known, he greeted me

very kind li. -- kindly. i think i thought he said i'm fred. no, he said i'm brad paisley and i said to one of my colleagues, i said, do you know who the guy in the hat was? and then to my horror -- >> i've seen him on commercials. >> this segment is over. >> but tim mcgraw is giving brad paisley hell every day for that moment. >> anyhow -- >> i don't know how i'm going to live that down. >> still ahead, we're counting down to the release of bob mueller report. "morning joe" will be back in two minutes. report "morning joe" will be back in two minutes. the american red cross needs your help

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violation. jeff sessions recused himself. he took the job and then he said i'm going to recuse myself. i said, what kind of a man is this? the attorney general says i'm going to recuse myself. and i said, why the hell didn't he tell me that before i put him in? >> i think what he said was absolutely true. the attorney general was doing an excellent job and he's been a fantastic attorney general. he's grabbed it by the horn. >> president trump at least for now feels very differently about his former and current attorney general. within the next 90 minutes, william barr will hold a news conference to outline redacted findings from the mueller report. he'll have the information in front of him while the reporters in the room will not. since the document will not be available until after wards. nbc news has now confirmation from a doj spokes person that

the attorney general will address the following. executive privilege, interactions with the white house over the last few weeks, and the redaction process. he's going to try and explain all that. reporters will be waiting for what happens after. and that is the redacted mueller report. it is portions of the mueller report and portions will be blacked out so the press will not be able to see what is there. welcome back to "morning joe." it is thursday, april 18th. along with joe, willie and me we have former chairman of the republican national committee. michael steele. former u.s. attorney barbara mcquaid. usa today opinion columnist, curt pardella. and nbc news national security analyst. >> so we're less than 90 minutes from attorney general barr's press conference which precedes

the release of the report both to congress and to the public. the president is ready. he just tweeted the greatest political hoax of all times. crimes were committed by crooked dirty cops and dnc, the democrats. >> so the president stepping up on his attacks while we've waiting for this report. there's a couple of things that seem a little out of order. maybe a little inappropriate especially as it pertains to the attorney general. help me, why am i struggling with exactly the chain of events that are about to transpire? it seems the attorney general is working for the wrong person. >> there are a couple of things that unrushl here. the promise of a press conference with a report not to come until several hours later. typically those are done si simultaneo simultaneously. the other thing that is bothering me, we had learned there would be four bases for redaction and today we're hearing about a fifth of executive privilege and there

have been conversations with the white house, the subject of the investigation before the public knows the details of this, so i think it does raise some suspicion that things are not as transparent as we might like them to be. >> so around noontime the public will get whatever version is presented, heavily redacted. what will you be looking in this report as somebody that's studied this so closely? >> i'm interested in what bob mueller found with what the president's reaction was when he was told the russian federation had made a decision to interfere. did he just say it's fine with me, it's okay, i love it, did he express any concern, any alarm? what was the reaction of his senior people and what did he do in the months after wards to benefit from that russian interference and ultimately to reward it? because i think this began with

a international security investigation and it ends today with a national security question which is why do we have a foreign policy that seems to be under russian levers? that seems to be under russian influence. why do we have a presidency and an american foreign policy where we're doing russia's bidding and i think that's the question t t that's presented today. >> in your experience how much can the public expect to see of this report? >> i think the vast majority of the report will be available for the public. i think there will be sections that the intelligence committees will gain access to. there may be some small aspects that can't be revealed. i also think it's important that the underlying investigative material, the fbi 302s, the case files also be made public as they have been made public in other investigations. >> all right. sort of an oversight question, i

guess, but it appears to me when i look at this chain of events and the way the president is now tweeting that he's very concerned about himself and how he reflects in this report. what is this report looking at and what are the questions oversight committee members are going to have beyond his, you know, wild worries about looking bad as opposed to what happened to this country. >> how shocking that donald trump is making it about himself all the time in every way possible. that's all that he ever does. i think what oversight committee democrats and republicans are going to look at is the main question of when they get -- when they ask the attorney general to release the full report unredacted to congress, when those subpoenas start coming, when they start asking mueller and barr to testify under oath, are they going to do that or are they going to push this to a court and legal battle? are they going to use executive

authority to shield disclosure to congress. remember, when republicans were in power they issued more than 100 preponderances to t 100 subpoenas to the administration. jim jordan who's now the lead republican on the committee sat there and said how can you ignore the facts when we don't get the facted and then voted to held him in con tend. the standard for heading the executive branch accountable was set by republicans in the obama years and now donald trump be held to that standard. >> you know, donald has -- the president has such a bad poker face, and so we've been talking about how barr is spinning this, can he spin it and then dorl donald, donald trump is going to have a press conference and spin it. the fact that he is still

frantically tweeting this morning after knowing what's in the report, what a taell that i. >> very much. this is all about early damage control, getting out ahead of this thing, clearing the field as much as possible so no one else gets to play at the same time the president is playing, and i think the tell in this sort of poker analogy was when the justice department and the white house sat down and i'll use the word, colluded over this report. and particularly over the idea of executive privilege. now this is going to be a part of what's going to be addressed by barr. well, why is that even an issue? who's claiming executive privilege here? the administration or the attorney general? and so it just opens up a lot of other cans of real worms for -- for this president given the fact that they think that they're preventing something from happening. getting up and creating a

different narrative that they want. but they're actually joe, to your point, feeding that. >> but willie, again, after he got barr's letter, sanitized letter suddenly robert mueller was an honorable man who ran an honorable investigation. if the "new york times" is right, he knows what's in the report. and if you knew that the report was benign and you were exonerated you would be saying the same thing. that he ran an honorable process. the president's hair this morning is on fire. and for good reason. it is a tell that the mueller report is damning regardless of the spin that his attorney general is going to put on it. >> from honorable man to dirty cop pretty quickly once he heard what was in the report. >> chuck schumer and nancy pelosi have now called for robert mueller to testify publicly. they said we can't trust this process anymore the way the

justice department have handled this. we need to hear from mueller directly. a lot of people asked this yesterday. why isn't bob mueller holding a press conference if there is one to be held. what's the answer to that? wouldn't he want b to answering the questions and to speak publicly and directly about some of the things in the report? >> fully transparent process, yes, i think it would be helpful for people to hear from him himself. why he found that the evidence was unable to establish conspiracy for example, but it is not unusual i think for the head of the agency to be the one to stand there before the cameras. so that doesn't bother me so much. what does bother me a little bit is the timing of this that william barr is going to speak before the report comes out. it feels like a lawyer's trick of fronting bad evidence yourself to take the sting out of it so that you get to use your spin so that when people hear it they are sensitized to your position and they will receive it in a different way.

>> are you surprised -- maybe we shouldn't be surprised by anything more, but the attorney general of the united states behaving this way? i mean, would you have your press conference at 9:30 before the information was even presented to congress? >> no, i've never seen it. what typically happens you present the report as you present the press conference. they're trying to get out in front of it to control the narrative and so that people when they read it they can diffuse any bombs that are within it. >> talk about the curious case of rod rosenstein, a guy who actually followed donald trump's orders and wrote a letter justifying his firing of james comey and then seemed to snap back and burnish his reputation a bit by running a straight process but now sits at the right hand of an attorney

general who is just breaking through one constitutional norm after another. what has become of rod rosenstein? >> it's an odd journey because as you point out, rod rosenstein was also an individual who wondered whether or not the 25th amendment ought to be invoked with the respect to the president. whether the department of justice ought to run an investigation and conduct surveillance of the president because he was so deadly seriously concerned that the president was under the influence of a foreign adversary nation and so here we have him in effect providing cover for the process. maybe he has some confidence that redactions were done appropriately or what have you, but i think his conduct also has to be questioned and i think overall the whole issue of obstruction of justice is a legal question. it's a constitutional question. we largely know the facts. this is a question of law and constitutional import. that's something only congress should look at.

>> we of course have heard the news out of north korea. another missile test after donald trump telling us we had nothing to worry about, there were going to be no further tests and not only that, now you have kim jong un considered one of the most tir ran cal leaders in the world ordering the president to keep his secretary of state at home for no further talks. >> and nobody writes beautiful letters. >> love letters almost. >> isn't amazing that the north koreans make fools of one president after another but no president trump has been made as much a fool after when it comes to north korea. >> it's easy to do once you size up your opposition and you know that your opposition's weakest point is flattery and nice letters. the substance of foreign policy and the relationship between the north koreans and the united

states and the peninsula as a whole take a backseat for this administration and it has. and it is the reason why over the last 60 years there has always existed this tension between the u.s. and north korea, because you've had presidents, joe, who would look the devil in his eye and call him the devil. and he couldn't get away with nice letters and platitudes. this administration has been played a fool when it comes to north korea. missile tests are going. the nuclear program is well underway. and now you're being instructed by your adversary that if you want to have a conversation with me, you leave your secretary of state at home because we don't like the things he says to us, which speak to the bifurcated messaging of the administration, because if -- you know, the president is doing the pally thing -- >> that's a nice way to put it.

there's no message. >> there is no message there. no policy there. >> nothing. >> that you can latch on to. >> so jeremy, this is a disaster 20 years in the making and again, one president after another has mishandled it. i remember almost 20 years ago being on the armed services committee and getting classified briefings from experts saying that north korea was moving towards having long range ballistic missiles that could reach the heart land of america and that was in like 1998, 1999. and here we are 20 years later still bungling this issue. >> yeah, and previous presidents bear some responsibility, joe. what this president did was not only did he go to the singapore summit to try to size up kim jong un and you could argue maybe that was an important step but then when they made clear they would not denuclearize, the

president essentially caved by giving him a second summit at hanoi and there was no chance that was going to succeed and i think the reason secretary of state has been asked to stay home is because he's taken the appropriate hard line with them and they realize they're not going to get anything done with him so they want to go around him and go to the weakest point of our government which is the person sitting in the oval office. >> so let's end where we began and talk about this report. >> he's still tweeting. >> what do we expect, not just today, but tomorrow, next week? what should the democrats do, what should reporters be looking for? >> well, i think members of congress should see the full report without the redactions. that's one thing that they should be looking for. i think as we head this report one of the most important things to look at is not just the obstruction piece but the conspiracy piece.

when mueller did not establish that conspiracy was committed that is a very different thing from saying there is no evidence of collusion. to say establish, that means be able to prove a case that you can sustain beyond a reasonable doubt. a really high standard. that doesn't mean there's not a lot of evidence and i think to protect our country going forward we all need to understand what happened so we can protect ourselves from russian interference. >> i think we have to put the president's tweets in context. unfortunately these are official statements by the president of the united states but as we have learned over the patterns that we've seen since he's been in office that these are often to distract, deflect and divide. >> so -- >> here is the latest one. >> let's go to the tweet desk. >> familiar tune. presidential presidential harassment. he's also tweeting about hillary clinton's e-mails. >> his judicial watch really

tweeting about hillary clinton this morning? >> well, he's retweeting their -- yes. >> how sad, how pathetic. >> how pathetic. >> how irrelevant. >> so you've been on the oversight committee. you know how it runs. what do we expect to see from the democrats and oversight committee over the next month? >> well, one, they've invited stephen miller to testify before congress about his role in crafting and shaping the president's border separation policy. two, i think they're going to look at this report and they're going to look at, are there any threads that relate to the financial investigation of the trump finances and taxes? they've already issued a friendly subpoena. it's a friendly subpoena is when they need the legal coverage to provide that type of information and so they ask for the subpoena. that's been served and i think the real question is how much did mueller go into trump's finances, if at all? how much of that informed his investigation?

did he see any concerns about could this president and those around him be in any way financial i compromised and beholden to some of the crazy behavior we've seen. these are the types of things as they go through the report. it's why they want the surrounding materials in evidence because they're conducting a number of very important sensitive information gags, investigations right now. there could be a lot of things that could help those investigations and guide them. >> i'm sure you saw that mayor pete has repented from not recognizing your good friend bad paisley. i held up the picture. he knew right away, he will not do that again. >> well, you know, brad talked about maybe we need to have kind of a red neck identification training program for pete going forward that he could serve as an advisor to help him through that. i was there in south bend this weekend with tim and he

recognized mcgraw immediately when he walked in the room, so i don't know. i still think pete's going to have to make this up to brad somehow. >> i think he will. >> all right. thank you very much for being on this morning. and still ahead on "morning joe" we'll go live to the white house with nbc's kristin welker ahead of attorney william barr's prez conference. we'll be right back with "morning joe." joe."r what you . nice! but uh, what's up with your partner? oh! we just spend all day telling everyone how we customize car insurance because no two people are alike, so... limu gets a little confused when he sees another bird that looks exactly like him. ya... he'll figure it out. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ we see two travelers so at a comfort innal with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, "wow, maybe i'll glow too if i book direct at choicehotels.com".

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we are just one hour now away from the press conference from attorney general william barr where he will address the special counsel's report. and joaning us nining us now, k welk welker. the president has fired off tweets or retweets ahead of the redacted mueller report release. what are you hearing this morning? >> reporter: well, i think you can look at the tweets and get a sense of the fact that this is a

very tense, very heated moment for him. he's responding to the fact that the public is going to get its first real look of what is in the mueller report. let me tell you what's going to happen at the white house today. we know that white house officials are going to be reading this report, particularly the house counsel. they'll be huddled here in various rooms as they try to digest the information. we also know that the president's legal team planning to do the very same. they have prepared a counter report, willie and i talked to jay yesterday who told me that this counter report is roughly 30 pages or so and it deals with a couple of different issues. it deals with issues surrounding obstruction, collusion and then the origins of the investigation. now, the legal team hasn't yet determined how much if any of this counter report they're going to put out. they'll have to wait and see specifically what is in the information that is released today before making a final

determination, but the president and his allies really bracing for what they believe may be damaging information to come. at least politically. we have been talking to some of the more than two dozen current and former officials who spoke with, who cooperated with the special counsel and i can tell you there's real concerns and consternation there that it's going to be obvious who gave what information about the president and if the president perceives it to be damaging, will there be some type of a backlash. the president has an event later on this morning so we're hoping to get some questions to him and then a little bit later on "today," we may have a second chance to ask him about all of this as the world and the white house waits for the mueller report to be released. >> preparing a rebuttal to a report that already says exonerates the president. what's your sense of how much the white house already knows about the report? there was some reporting from

the yiem "new york times" that they had spoken to the president about the report. >> reporter: we do believe that there have been conversations between the white house and the department of justice based on that "new york times" reporting. the white house not commenting specifically but no one pushing back against the "new york times" reporting. those conversations would have really centered around issues likely of executive privilege. we know that the attorney general has been redacting portions of this, so before he makes a determination about some piece of information that may or may not be protected by executive privilege he would likely need to discuss that with the white house and we no the attorney general is going to be holding that news conference at 9:30 today and i think that's really going to be the center of it, willie, according to a spokes person at doj who says that's what barr is going to discuss. some of his discussions with the white house as its relates to these redactions and the broader redaction process, but as you know, all of that is just

fuelling the ire of democrats who say this is some type of coordinated effort to spin the findings of the mueller report. they're demanding to see the full report. they're even demanding that mueller testify himself and they're saying they could subpoena the full report as early as tomorrow. >> yeah, chuck schumer and nancy pelosi calling just this morning for robert mueller to testify in an open hearing. one hour away from attorney general barr's press conference. >> all so unusual. when we come back we'll be over on the nightly news set as our crew preps for special coverage of the william barr news conference. it's scheduled for just about an hour from now. brian williams will head up that coverage. before that, we'll be joined on set over there, next on "morning joe," we still have a lot more to get to. we're back in four meants after some musical chairs. we'll be right back. r some musical chairs.

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savin' on this! savin' on this! savin' in here. rewarded! learn more at theexplorercard.com. who if anyone outside the justice department has seen portions of all of the special counsel's report? has anyone in the white house seen any of the report? >> i'm not going to -- i'm

landing the plane right now. i'm just not going to get into the details of the process until the plane is on the ground. >> that's not a detail. that's actually wondering if you've talked to the president about what's in the report and how much has been shared. that was attorney general barr in his testimony last week dodging on information he had shared on the report with the white house. you're looking at live pictures of the justice department right now. joining us now msnbc chief legal correspondent, national political reporter for nbc news and nbc news intelligence and national security reporter joins the coverage as well. >> so i've asked this question of willie an awful lot before. i'll ask you. where are we? >> oh, we're on the nightly news set right now, but we're also on a different planet in terms of the president of the united states and his relationship with the attorney general.

the attorney general is about to have a news conference, weir doing special coverage here at nbc news. it is a highly unusual sequence of events. >> is that what we're doing? >> because the attorney general is going to be doing a press conference before the redacted, highly controlled and not complete report that bob mueller put together over the course of two years looking into russian interference in our election process and the president. he's going to be talking about it. i don't get it. >> the leading question -- >> is there anything unusual going on here? >> is there a question in there, counselor? >> yes, there is. >> to both of you, to both counselors to the firm of mika and joe, your line of questioning is -- >> i'm not a partner yet. >> still associates? >> ityour line of questioning i important because i keep a binder of all this stuff and

here we are 23 months in. i have a letter from mr. barr and when you read from this letter it says on march 29th, everyone will be able to read the report soon. i'm not going to further summarize it in a piecemeal fashion. he wrote that for whatever reason he wrote it. that's the barr standard from march 29th. we know if he walks out here and starts trying to summarize what's in the mueller report before congress even seeing it, that is not even what he said he would do let alone the normal course. so we should always be suspicious of our government and skeptical of it. that's an american tradition. >> so the report is 400 pages long. did he say that before he read it all? >> he said it on march 29th when according to him he could reach his own conclusions. today is obviously a big day. that's why there's so much action. that's why there's so much clash right now and mr. barr has decided he would clearly rather take the heat for what everyone

can see violates his own letter and the normal standard procedures. clearly he'd rather take that heat than just unload whatever heat is going to be when we see the report later in the day. that alone may be telling. >> so willie, has been the case for a couple of years, right now we're seeing through a glass. we know what's coming with barr. we know that donald trump may weigh in after that. but again, there are some tells. the fact that the president has gone from saying after the letter that this was an honorable process to now -- he's -- he's melting down this morning. obviously there are some things inside the report that he's already seen, that the white house has already seen, that his lawyers have already seen, that we have not seen, the taxpayers have not seen, that clearly upsetting. this is not going to be a whitewashing of donald trump. >> all the decisions he made

over the last couple of years have led us to this day and he's tried to create a prism through when he wants the american people to see the mueller report. the press conference at 9:30 this morning down to the fact he just tweeted where people should watch it. he said they should watch it on fox news or oam, another friendly network for him. i would say a couple things. number one, when we look at the redactions, we don't know how redacted this report will be when the public gets its eyes on it, but the department of justice did work with the special counsel's office on these redactions. in other words, robert mueller and his team had some say in what should and should not be redacted. should the american people take some heart in that in terms of what they'll see in a couple of hours? >> i think so, willie. and it's certainly our reporting here, those of us covering this investigation closely that the notion that barr is going to hide some significant damaging

facts or redactions just doesn't seem to hold up because it was revealed in a court document yesterday that congress will see a much less redacted version oor some members of congress will of this report and i think you know, the intelligence committees will see the whole thing. so there's really no point and we are certainly being led to believe that there are some very damaging revelations in this report that will not be redacted. we'll see the light of day and in terms of what barr may be up to with this news conference it's looking like based on what the doj said earlier today, barr will not be talking about the substance of the report. he'll be talking about the redaction process but one thing to look for is will he talk about his review into the origins of the investigation of the mueller probe because that's what donald trump and the republicans seem to be obsessed with and it would be a way of barr throwing a bone to the president on a day that's not going to go well for him. >> that would be wholly

inappropriate. the country has been waiting 23 months for this conclusion. whether it's good, no conspiracy indicted or whether it has bad news. if mr. barr steps out before providing the report to congress and starts bringing up other new things on this day of all days it will be quite obvious, quite i think glaring that he's trying to hi jack this news day which is what it partly is to washington and the country to talk about something else. the country, the political process and those who are reporting it to say well, we'll get to that. it may be news but i don't think it will be the priority if the attorney general says i know i've been on the job a couple months. i know there's 400 pages but let's talk about a new investigation of an investigation. >> there's a lot going on right here, joe. i mean, there's trumping going on. everybody's being trumped right now and we have to deal with it a little bit differently every

time till we figure this out because you have trump doing his thing and having, some would argue, his attorney general behave in an inappropriate way and kind of be his roy cone and kind of set the narrative for whatever is going to be released in the mueller report which is going to be redacted which is complicated. you have trump tweeting wildly very divisive things, ugly things, even focus toward the media telling people to watch fox news where he has a lot of influence and connections and people who work on his behalf and you have this branding experience that's going to happen before the report is released where the attorney general and probably the president, he said he would speak after is going to try and brand what this report is all about. meanwhile, reporters and our experts here are going to have to spend the entire day, the entire weekend pouring through whatever is available to us. we must then remind the audience

that only some of this is going to be available to us. the president is taking this whole thing and trying to make it a branding event to clear his name or to divide us or to royal the base. he's going to use this moment the way he does, and we have to methodically work through that and not get distracted by it. >> but the moment -- it is a moment though. he's going to use this moment. i think that's the thing that people have to keep in mind. that this is just a moment. we are going to know soon enough and you can only assume if the attorney general, who has had a good reputation in washington for 30 years is willing to sully his reputation even more by -- by holding a press conference without letting reporters and tax paying americans see the report, if donald trump is

tweeting wildly this morning and telling people to go to fox news which i find quite interesting because a few days ago he was angry at fox news because fox news said come on, democrats, we'll be fair and they actually have been fair. bernie sanders and other democrats are going to go there. it just suggests that we should all take a deep breath, wait 24 hours and understand that this sort of day trading never works. one thing we do know though is that the attorney general of the united states has forever sullied his reputation. regardless of what people thought about attorney william barr over the last several years his actions over the past months have been the actions of a political hack and not unfortunately a respected legal mind. and it is interesting also, that we've been getting tells from

donald trump that he's concerned about what's going to be in this report, but your reporting suggests that there are members and former members of the trump administration also concerned because of what they told robert mueller throughout the entire process. >> reporter: absolutely. and you can see why based on the way that the president is tweeting about this this morning. he's calling it saying it's a witch hunt and all these other things that he has said prior to the barr summary. the way he's characterized the investigation, the people who cooperated with the mueller investigation, who worked for president trump, who are either currently in the white house or used to be in the white house are worried of being the target of that sort of wrath. that when this report comes out that it will be clear that they spoke extensively with the special counsel's office and also that they were the source of some of what we expect to be pretty damaging information for the president and the flip side

of that is going to be a president who is -- can be very vindictive, to likes to retaliate and he will go after them and his allies will go after him. so that's one of the things that people around the president have been bracing for in the last few days. >> all right. we'll have much more of "morning joe," the special coverage of william barr's news conference and the impending release of the redacted mueller report is straight ahead. straight ahead ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe." you're looking at a live picture at the podium at the department of justice where 41 minutes from now the attorney general of the united states will stand to make some sort of presentation. not even congress will have the report until after that news conference is complete. but we're about 40 minutes away

now from william barr starting what is sure to be an extraordinary day in this country. you were talking about taking a deep breath. let's all stop, make our conclusions and report are so in one outcome or another. even members of congress who called president trump a russian agent. on the other side you have people who believe the president's narrative from the beginning that this has been a witch hunt to get him out of office. how do you walk back from those positions? do the people have the integrity and the honesty to read the report and say maybe i was wrong? >> i don't think so. unfortunately it's not just members of congress. it's also members of the media who have gotten so far out in front and said donald trump is a russian agent or intel communities are corrupted. so -- but i do think, though, again, just talking about this politically, a lot of americans don't care about this, but

enough voters in michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania do. and so donald trump knows that. that's the tipping of the scales. those independents that broke for him and helped elect him president, they will go the other way if this report goes badly. so i don't want to speculate, but with ari, i do feel a need to warn as we warned people, willie, mika and i for six months that donald trump was not a joke and he could win the republican nomination and win the white house, i do feel the need to warn journalists. and warn americans that we could see the attorney general this morning doing a followup to his testimony last week before the senate where he actually put forward a conspiracy theory to try to distract the senators and americans from actually looking

at the report it. he could very well use this 9:30 press conference to talk about investigating the investigators. if that's, in fact, what he does, he will be remembered as the sleaziest attorney general since john mitchel, but that is a concern. and i hope reporters are alert to that fact, and those aren't screaming headlines except on the most sadly pathetic pro trump websites. >> i think you put it starkly. i think it's an important dose of skepticism to bring to an announcement that is not normal, that is suspect as we've stated in our reporting because it violates barr's claim that he would not do more piecemeal summaries. this is by definition that because even congress, let alone the public won't have the scrubbed or redacted report. we talked about the stakes of the branding. this is in a real sense for america today a war, an

informational war between the evidence and facts even in redacted form that will be there for everyone to see, and whatever comes out from the president or rudy giuliani or the attorney general and the attorney general will show us who he is and how he conducts himself at 9:30, but whether that is an attempt to distract from, to overarchingly basically take over what people understand comes out of this. i think that's important. we need to look at what we get in findings and ed out of these 400 pages which will take more than one hour to process. people talking to you about the report or other things, trying to change the topic today are probably not trying to help you the viewers understand. >> i'm predicting a lot of deflecting and dividing. >> mika, sadly the worse not just on the facts. the president has shown he's willing to declare war on our intel communities and our law enforcement officers. watch for that today. >> we know the patterns. speaking of investigating the investigators another

justice department report linked to the russia probe could come out as soon as next month. the justice department's inspector general has been -- based on information from christopher steele, a former british spy behind the infamous dossier on trump's ties to russia. several people interviewed by the office over the past year tell politico the ig's team has been focussed on gauging steele's credibility as a source for the bureau. one former u.s. official left the interview with the impression that the inspector general's final report is going to try to deeply undermine steele who spent over two decades working for russia for m-16 before leaving his launch -- leaving to launch his own corporate intelligence firm.

president trump tweeted yesterday wow, fbi made 11 payments to fake dossier's discredited author trump hater christopher steele. he tagged one america news watch and judicial watch before adding the witch hunt has been a total fraud on your president -- >> kim, let me bring you in here. first as ari and i were talking about and willie and mika off camera, cross fire hurricane did not lead to the indictment of carter page. >> it did lead to the indictment of three other people that were targets. 75% right? not so bad, and also this was a footnote, and in the fbi's efforts to get surveillance that's a footnote. as you and i both know judges look at footnotes and decide whether to put weight on that or

not. >> that's the point. whatever christopher steele's credibility issues, and let's remember the doj inspector general is an independent actor. he was appointed by president obama. if that's where he's going and if he casts doubt on christopher steele, that does not bear on the integrity or the originens of the mueller investigation. the mueller investigation which began before mueller did not hinge on the dossier. the fbi was aware of the dossier, but it began when george papadopoulos spoke to an australian diplomat about being offered e-mails, hacked e-mails that the russians said they po saysed on hillary clinton. and there was a pattern of unexplained contacts between the trump campaign and russia. the cia was getting reporting from overseas and john brennan passed that onto then fbi director james comey. none of that had anything to do with the christopher steele dossier. so this narrative and by the way, it's millions of americans

believe this the way they believe the benghazi attack was a scandal that implicated hillary clinton. that this whole investigation has its roots in corruption. it was a put up job. it was a coupe. and to the extent that william barr feeds into that appointing a panel to review this matter, when in fact there's an independent doj inspector general that's about to report, that raises questions about what barr is up to. >> exactly. willie, how many indictments did the justice department get out of this? how many charges? 199? >> 37 total indictments out of the mueller probe itself, and others handed off. >> 99 charges or something like that? >> yeah. >> carol lee, as we come up on 9:00, we know thanks to your reporting that a lot of people inside the trump administration will be reading it nervously looking for anything that reveals them and how the

president might react to that. how will you read this report when we finally get our hands on whatever version we get our hands on. >> i think the three things i'm looking for is one, what do we learn new about any contacts between trump associates and russia? the extent to which russia tried to coordinate or collude with members of the trump campaign. the second thing is the counterintelligence piece of this. they put out there was a counterintention investigation on whether or not the president was a witting or unwitting agent for the russian government. we still have no answer on that question. will there be anything in here that helps us get to that, and the thing that all the people who work for president trump who cooperated with the investigation are going to focus on the obstruction piece. what do we learn new this president was doing that we don't already know? all signs point to the fact that there are a number of things that we still don't know despite knowing a lot about how he tried to obstruct the investigation. >> i think carol raises a great

investigative question. we talked about the spin, what's in the report. because mueller didn't find a conspiracy to charge, what was donald trump hiding and why did so many people lie at great risk and sometimes putting themselves in jail? why so many lies? we could learn more about that today. >> why so many lies? why did the president of the united states call everybody together on air force one? to make up -- >> the excuse for the meeting. >> right. and why did the president himself lie and put that together and actually then have his team lie to the new york times about the trump tower meeting? >> the facts, the questions, the charges, but also the personal. trump worked closely with paul manafort. he worked closely on the campaign trail. days and nights, plane rides side by side with michael flynn. he had lots of people around him that are now either facing jail

time or are already there. and i mean, this has happened before our eyes and the president yet still is trying to undermine the reality of what is going on. >> and by the way -- >> something to watch for. >> and when you hear somebody talk about witch hunt, the president's national security adviser charged with a felony. manafort, his campaign manager, in jail. the list goes on. i mean, but we'll let brian williams complete that list throughout his coverage. he's picking up msnbc's coverage of the release of the redacted mueller report right now. brian. and thank you to joe and mika. good morning and welcome as our special coverage of the mueller report now gets underway. i'm brian williams. 9:00 a.m. in the east. 30 minutes from now we're expecting to hear from u.s. attorney general william barr, the opening act in a day-long dramaha