good morning to all of you, from the msnbc headquarters in new york. 7:00 a.m. in the east, 4:00 a.m. in the west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." action on the hill. democrats plotting their next move as they may get a look at the mueller report. denial. it's one of the most quoted moments in the mueller documents. one of the president's advisers says it never happened. so, what's the truth? >> i'm not there yet. but i can foresee that possibly coming. >> what does one of the leading democrats see coming, as congress prepares to get back to work next week? patriotic millionaires. one group wants the government to tax them more. why isn't that happening? and where would that money go? we begin this hour with breaking news from the south asian country of sri lanka, where a series of explosions this easter sunday has killed

140 people. an initial wave of blasts targeted three churches and three hotels. it's all in the capital of columbo. now, there's word of more explosions. sarah harmon is following the latest from our london bureau. frightening times and horrific. what are you hearing? >> a sri lankan military spokesman has confirmed two more explosions near the capital. the first round of explosions happened around 8:45 local time as worshipers were attending mass. the near-simultaneous blasts ripping through three different churches around the country on easter sunday. also targeted were three luxury hotels in the capital, columbo. these are the hotels that are popular with foreign tourists and the business community. so far, 138 people are confirmed dead. but sadly, that number is

expected to rise. hundreds have been admitted to colom colombo's main hospital. and the government is trying to contain the situation. they've issued an overnight curfew, telling people to remain in their houses. they're shuts down major social media sites. the archbishop of colombo is cancelling all easter evening services in light of these attacks. world leaders are offering condolences. the pope addressed the attack in his address. no group has claimed responsibility. this is the worst violence in sri lanka since the end of the civil war ten years ago. >> it is horrific, to say the least. i understand there's hundreds that had to go to hospitals. you can imagine how overwhelmed they are. do we know if any americans were involved? >> we are getting reports that foreigners are among the dead. alex, right now, we don't have confirmed information for you on whether americans were involved.

as you can imagine, it's something we're chasing actively here. it is an active situation, after the first rounds of blasts to see two more. at the point we are at now, it's too soon to say. as soon as we know, we'll update you, alex. >> what a tragedy on an easter sunday. developing this hour, the attorney general is promising that beginning tomorrow, top democratic leaders will have access to view some unredacted sections of the mueller report, under secured conditions. also happening tomorrow, democrats are expected to hold conference call to strategize how to move forward. all this comes as the white house and the president and his allies are trying to control the public narrative. >> these people are disappointed that the president of the united states isn't a criminal. that's what they believe. they hate this president more than they love their country. >> they put all of the garbage in that one place. there's nothing in the redacted material that's different than you have read. everything in the cohen section, you can burn it. >> a true miscarriage of

justice. they've tried to have an asterisk next to his election. >> also prominent in that strategy, defending the attorney general, as democrats insist he mischaracterized the findings of the special counsel. >> the president was frustrated and angered by his sincere belief that the investigation was undermining his presidency. >> if you don't like the message, you attack the messenger. >> he is not going to put his reputation in jeopardy to do anything dishonest or sneaky. >> this as two trump allies are questioning, as quoted in the report, when the president learned of the appointment of the special counsel, he slumped back in his chair and said, this is the end of my presidency, i'm "f'd." >> i've never heard him say, this is the end of my candidacy. this is the end of my presidency. i've never heard him utter those words. >> he's a winner at everything he does. anybody who says he was debbie downer all of a sudden, my

presidency is over, is a liar. >> the attention turns on how democrats will face the president's messaging machine. congressman ted lu is outlining strategy. >> one of the reasons we're going to have these hearings of abuse of power and other crimes of donald trump and the associates, is to educate the american people on what happened. at the same time, we're going to focus on issues that move the american family forward, such as health care, infrastructure and getting rid of corruption. >> the mueller report renewing the debate on whether to try to impeach the president. the chairman of the oversight committee says he's not there yet but could see impeachment possibly coming. >> we have to make sure that congress has all of the information. then, we need to have the public know that information, so they can see that they have a president that basically has been about the business, i

think, of doing great harm. not only to our country but to our democracy. >> here's how other democrats are viewing the impeachment debate. >> i believe there is room for that conversation. right now, what i want, is i want mueller to come before congress to testify. >> i think we're on a path that could lead to impeachment. but we're doing everything, i think, we need to do. >> the political calculation is not on my table. i want clear, complete evidence. >> i would rather defeat donald trump. we are already a badly divided nation. the impeachment effort is only going to divide us further. >> let's go to the white house now. a happy holiday to you, my friend. let's talk about the message coming out of the white house. what's the interpretation here? >> reporter: the president is in mar-a-la mar-a-lago. he is expected to return this easter evening. in the meantime, he's taken refuge with the staunch allies

from the media. the white house taking the step of releasing photographs of that encounter. and the president has been tweeting. he's been watching a lot of fox news. he's been tweeting a lot of approval of the things he's heard there. the release of the report has turned bitter. the president turning his ire on people like don mcgahn, former white house counsel, one of the note-takers. calling him a quote/unquote, lying bastard. and mitt romney criticizing the president on twitter. and the president taking out on him, as well. the president's aides, rushing to his defense, criticizing the critics of the president. those include kellyanne conway. >> the real rebuttal for president trump will be his re-election. the democrats wasted so much time thinking this was the way

to get him out of office. and really diminish him to the american people. and it's had the opposite effect. >> kellyanne conway, the top aide and supporter of the president, it's her husband, a noted conservative lawyer, who has been one of the top critics on the republican side of the president, calling the presidency a cancer on the nation. meanwhile, you see this fight on the democratic side about impeachment. you report a conference call among house democrats tomorrow to determine how to proceed on this question. so far, the top democrats in congress looking towards 18 months ahead. toward the next election. they see a series of hearings and investigations, not only on the mueller report, but things like the president's taxes, taking a toll on the president. hit after hit after hit. sort of a slow burn. and meanwhile, those out on the campaign trial, who want the caucus voters to caucus for them next winter, they're calling for impeachment now.

a little divide you see among democrats. >> absolutely, mike. this is a great place to jump-start my next conversation. joining me now, julia m manchester and sarah harris for politico. sarah, the expectations about the conference call about the mueller report, why is nancy pelosi calling for it? is she trying to get everybody on the same page? >> she is trying to get everyone on the same page. speaker pelosi was out of the country when the mueller report came out. there's many members who are eagerly going through this report. they want to hear what the democratic leadership has to say because they've been remarkably sile silent, other than calling for the full release of the report. they want to see the underlying evidence. they issued that subpoena on friday. in the public statements they've been relatively muted on what the contents of the report will mean going forward. they haven't said what the next

steps will be, other than securing this evidence, trying to get the full report, trying to make sure that all of the democrats can see the information, even if it is in a private setting. >> you know, to that end, julia, congressional leaders from both parties, they are going to have the opportunity to view a mostly unredacted version of the mueller report. that's coming their way tomorrow. according to a letter sent by the department of justice, julia, that's what it's saying. what about democrats overall? will they take bill bar up on this? or are they going to revert to saying we want the entire thing released? we want it to be publicly released. is it better for them to get in and see what they can at this point and take it step-by-step? >> you're seeing democratic leaders pushing back. adam schiff said he wanted everyone in the caucus to review that report. right now, i believe it's 12 democratic leaders would be able to review those unredacted

portions of the report. this is setting up another battle between house democrats and the department of justice. another thing to really look out for is what is the future of this grand jury information in this? i think democrats would like to see the information that came out of this grand jury process during the mueller report. however, republicans are saying, that while that information was released during the ken starr investigation in the '90s and watergate in the '70s, this is different because impeachment hasners a battle brewing between the department of justice and house democrats. in a way,oule they're going to attack trump, they're really looking to bill barr as their new boogie man and setting the sights on him in the weeks to come in this battle. >> julia, before i let you go on this, what are the circumstances under which these 12 congressional leaders can see the report? can they only do an eyes only? can they take notes? can they take photographs?

do we know what the restrictions are? >> it's unclear really yet. i think they'll be able to essentially look at that. i don't know how much they will be able to share with the other members of congress. that's something that's going to be a key point for democrats, looking to share this with their entire congress. democrats want to get as much information out of this as possible because they've been pushing already to get the entire report released. in their mind, it's too late to go back now. >> okay. sarah house judiciary chair nadler issued the subpoena a few days ago. they want the full mueller report. might he have waited to see it in a closed setting than making this move? is there any political risk here? >> they see a political gain here. they want to talk about everything on the ways they see the department of justice has obscured or tried to make it more difficult for democrats to see the report. that's why we saw democrats

really go after attorney general barr. they are really aiming their fire at him. they want to make it clear that democrats feel they are -- the department of justice is making it so difficult for democrats to get the information. so, they are going to put out these high-profile southbouubpo. they will be attacking bill barr before they can see the full report because they feel like they deserve a better -- thiey think they should have been able to see this in public. and they're going to be focused on that for the coming weeks. >> is there a concern among democrats on how to move forward on this? is this the predicate for this nancy pelosi phone call because they have to have a unanimous voice on this? >> there's concern. there's a concern because they're headed into a 2020 election. where not only democrats are trying to take back control of the white house but various democratic members will be fighting for re-election and looking to be elected in the house. that's something that they're

keeping an eye on. while the american people have, you know, polling has shown, they believe the report should have been released publicly. they wanted to see more details. if you look at various polling, the russian investigation, the mueller probe isn't top priority. we're seeing issues such as health care and the economy being talked about more, especially on the campaign trail among voters and the democrats. elizabeth warren has come out and her comments on impeachment the other day were setting her apart from the rest of the pack on that. i think democrats are very concerned going into 2020 because in 2018, they were able to make significant gains in the house and statehouses across the country by focusing on health care. i think focusing on this continuing issue of the mueller report, it could hurt them with some voters in swing states, such as the midwest, that they need to focus on. >> the messaging post-mueller

report, let's talk about that relative to "the washington post," which is writing about it. it says in the first days of the release of the underrated mueller report, democrats have struggling to find a clear messaging and talking points. is that a fair characterization? >> it is fair. speaker pelosi and her top lieutenants have not had a message they've all been touting. we saw majority leader steny hoyer came out. he gave appearances on cable news over the last couple days and said impeachment is not on the table for democrats. they're not planning to go there. he's repeating speaker pelosi's point, in a way that othersurpr. they saw him getting ahead of the pack there, setting the tone. but democrats have not had a chance to come together and decide how to move forward on this. that's why we're seeing so much focus on -- they're talking about getting the report. they're talking about how much they think the attorney general really botched the release. those are the things they want

to talk about until they have a chance to talk about the way to go forward on this, exactly who they will bring in and what hearings they want to have next. >> ladies, thanks so much for getting up early especially on a holiday sunday. thank you. did donald trump jr. get off easy? don't tell your mother. dad, it's fine. we have allstate. and with claimrateguard they won't raise your rates just because of a claim. that's why you're my favorite... i know. are you in good hands? you get the freedom of what a 7-day return policy. this isn't some dealership test drive around the block. it's better. this is seven days to put your carvana car to the test and see if it fits your life.

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investigation was left unindicted. mueller said his office declined to charge donald trump jr. and other trump campaign officials involved in the infamous trump tower meeting because of the difficulty prosecutors would have proving they would have that the participants knew their behavior was illegal. i know you read the report. do you believe this was an indictable case? or was there just insufficient evidence to prove this claim in court? why not charge junior with solicitation? >> the june 16 trump tower meeting is disappointing when it comes to the mueller investigation, in my opinion, because i do think that robert mueller could have gone further in the prosecution of donald trump jr. we know that donald trump jr., just like his father, refused to voluntarily sit down to be interviewed by the mueller time. but it would appear that in

volume one, the collusion/conspiracy component. and in volume two, when we deal with the obstruction analysis by the mueller investigation. it's obvious there's a clear and definitive attempt by donald trump jr. and the president himself, with the cohorts around him, to be able to disguise the true intent behind the meeting that took place at trump tower. we know that donald trump in his written answers states he did not recall any details or having knowledge prior to the meeting. we do know that his hands and his fingerprints, the president's, all over the cover-up why that meeting took place. i find that was a lost opportunity, frankly, alex, for them to go after donald trump jr. >> again, to what mueller had concerns about, it would be difficult to prove that going into this, donald jr. and anybody else, knew they would be committing a crime by doing so. how hard is that?

it's one thing after the fact to go, wow, that is something i probably need to cover up. but with intent, that's hard to prove. >> and that's an excellent question because you're asking whether somebody knew before something happened versus afterwards when they figured it out was probably wrong. think about the people that attended that meeting though, alex. paul manafort was there. paul manafort, campaign chair. he knew or should have known about the laws that forbade that kind of contact with a foreign agent that had, quote, dirt on your opposition. the fact that paul manafort had a meeting with donald trump that very morning before that meeting took place at trump tower, suggests to me, circumstantial evidence that donald trump himself knew about the meeting and what it would be about. i find it hard to believe that donald trump jr. could not be impute ed knowledge, but therei lies the rub. when you're prosecuting somebody in a criminal case, you have to

prove their specific intent, the mens rea, or what they were thinking. they have to prove they had a specific intent to commit a crime. you cannot prove it. that's why robert mueller was cautious. >> he lays out a lot of information about the meeting. why is that important? what can be done with that going forward? >> it doesn't mean that because the mueller investigation in and of itself, has ceased to exist, in terms of it's done. it doesn't mean there might be further exposure for jared kushner and others. we know that other people that were not only involved in that meeting and involved in subsequent conduct that occurred during the course of the campaign and subsequent to the campaign, they have the subject of further investigations. when it comes to the specific, though, trump tower meeting in june of 2016, i don't think we're going to see indictments come out of that. but remember, there's so many other continuing investigations dealing with the trump inaugural

committee, the trump foundation, the trump organization, that not everybody should be breathing a sigh of relief if you're in that trump syndicate. >> this is like a road map, right? and for other prosecutors potentially. given the things they need, the evidence to win in court, should they decide to take this into court? >> well, here's the thing. it's an exceptional road map, kind of like the watergate road map by the garage. robert mueller lays out a legal analysis and factual analysis why certain things worked. volume two on obstruction of justice made it clear, that congress can go after a president. congress can prosecute a president for high crimes and misdemeanors. they can go after the president for his conduct that, perhaps, didn't rise to the level of a tra traditional obstruction of justice.

it gave a road map for congress to pursue. and we don't know what the underlying source documents are because we haven't had the benefiting of seeing them. we've had a redacted 440-page report. there's documents that gave rise to this report. i'll bet there's something there that congress can use. >> thank you so much. enjoy your holiday. >> you, too. a new report on how trump is learning what's in the mueller report and how he's making his judgment on it. his judgment on it alright, i brought in

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approaching the bottom of the hour. from sri lanka, a series of blasts has killed 140 and injured about 500 people. it happened at three churches all during easter services and three luxury hotels in the capital city of colombo. two more blasts occurred at another hotel in another city and at a private house. pope francis condemned the attacks. he called it such cruel violence. he visited sri lanka in 2015.

and the president has tweeted about the attacks, saying the united states has heartfelt c condolences to the people of sri lanka. house oversight committee chair, elijah cummings is giving his takeaways for the mueller report and what it means for impeachment. >> he said to us, it's up to you to take this further with regard to obstruction and other matters that might come up. >> already, mr. chairman, el elizabeth warren, julio castro, says we should begin proceedings to impeach the president. are you there yet? >> i'm not there yet. i can foresee that possibly coming. >> let's bring in bishop garrison and brian darling,

founder and president of liberty affairs. good morning on this holiday. let's start with you, bishop. house democrats are holding a call tomorrow to discuss the next steps. is this building a path towards impeachment if they aren't there yet, as elijah cummings said? >> it's quite possible. what we have to look at in the mueller report, the big takeaway is there's ten different instances of obstruction efforts by the president. this seems to be a lot of smoke here. and the mueller report leaves it to congress to determine if there's actual fire. we have to determine whether this obstruction actually happened. these are crimes that can be considered high crimes and misdemeanors. if that's the case, you have a path towards impeachment. but mueller -- special counsel mueller, i should say, played the role of finder of fact.

he did not play the role of providing additional type of legal theory here. it's up to congress to determine if there's an argument for impeachment. >> let's get the numbers here, brian. a new poll was conducted after the release of the mueller report. it's looking at opposition to impeaching the president has dropped by 7%. and americans on the fence is up about 6%. should democrats take impeachment more seriously because it appears support for the president might be weakening? >> i think there's no chance that the president gets impeached. the democrats are moving to say the redactions are too much. the mueller report wasn't enough. the president said he has been clear. no obstruction. no collusion. and he's correct. i mean, it is ultimately -- it's true. i agree with bishop. it's up to congress to make these determinations.

high crimes and misdemeanors. that resides -- that decision resides with congress. and congress will make that decision. but iny conclusion, especially politically, when you have the senate controlled by republicans. when you look at this report and read this report, we see a president who is angry, a president who was really upset he was being investigated and rightfully so. and the ultimately conclusion was, he didn't do anything wrong. >> if i can add quickly, collusion is not in and of itself a violation or a crime. the obstruction is. and the individual that's under potential investigation who has been very public about his feelings on the report, is going to say there was no collusion. and he's going to use this opportunity to say that it shouldn't be further investigated. we don't let people who are potentially guilty of crimes to determine whether or not they're actually investigated for the crimes. so, that's something that we

need to be clear on. >> bishop, do you think that the mueller report makes it clear that the president did things that were wrong? and if so, do you think he has to face some sort of accountability? if not impeachment, there's been talk about censure. >> i think i agree with this. that special counsel mueller went out of his way he was not making a determination of guilt here. he was providing evidence as a finder of fact. it's up to congress to continue down this path. there's a great deal of smoke here. where there's smoke, there typically is fire. it's up to congress to find that fire. that's something that brian and i agree on. this is much bigger than partisan politics. we, as a nation, need to understand and know that we can trust our government and trust the institutions that we rely on daily. and in order to do that, we have to go forward with this investigation. >> brian, i asked the president's 2020 press secretary, kaley mccnanny.

>> the congressmen stand behind the president because there was no collusion. >> do any of the president's people recognize he did some things that were at the very least troubling? >> no. prosecutors aren't in the business of exoneration. >> how about you? can you admit that the president did some things that were troubling, at the very least? >> well, yeah. we've had an investigation, it's disclosed of conversations with the president dropping salty language. if that's the worst he did, dropping f-bombs and said some things that are inappropriate, i'm okay with that. ultimately, this investigation costs millions of dollars, almost two years. and what did they find? they did prosecute many individuals. but the prosecute wasn't one of them.

you know why? he didn't do anything wrong. if he considered hiring and firing people, that's what he does. that's his power under the constitution. and you can't prosecute him for that. so, when you look -- >> under the take care clause, you could, though. under the take care clause, article 2, section 3, clause 5. if he obstructed justice, he wasn't taking care of law to ensure that it was upheld faithfully. >> his power under article 2, he has the power to fire and hire. it's indisputable. how do you obstruct justice when there's no underlying crime? there's no allegation of an underlying crime. collusion with russia, it's not criminal. >> we have to determine if there's crimes that were taking place. and that's up to congress. >> and congress will fish away. and they'll fish away and try to find something. >> i want to get back to what

kayleigh mcennanny said. "the new york times" is commenting on the significance of that commentary. and it says, mr. trump had not read the document himself, according to people close to him. that means that the fates of the witnesses will depend on how they are portrayed on television and how friends and advisers tell mr. trump, who is spending the weekend at his mar-a-lago resort in florida, about the report. what do you make of that? you first, brian. >> this is going to be shaped a lot by the media and how individuals involved in the report, how they respond to it and how they talk publicly. i don't think many americans will sit down and read the 400-plus pages of the report. unfortunately, me and garrison were stuck doing it over the last few days. but most americans aren't going to do it. they're going to read "the new york times." they're going to read "the washington post." they're going to watch cable news and gather information like that. and the president is watching

closely. he's trying to see how this is spun. and we'll see if the american people, what their judgment is. ultima ultimately, they're going to matter. they're going to vote on 2020 whether he did something wrong or not. >> ultimately, bishop, wouldn't whatever the president has to say about the report, had more validation to it if he read the darn thing? >> i typically would agree with that, that ignorance is not going to be excuse in this. and in order to be educated on the report and in order to actually comment on it, from an educated perspective, you need to read it and you need to find out what's in it and understand it. if someone is telling you you're potentially guilty of crimes, i would hope that the president would take this opportunity over the next few days to sit down and review it and review it with his staff and understand what is actually in it and be properly informed in it. honestly, we've seen this president go through other situations in which he doesn't take that advice and that counsel.

he specifically pushes against the idea of being informed on a lot of these issues he has to make decisions on. i'm not confident -- >> all right. guys, good to see you both. happy holiday. where to go from here? i'm going to talk with debbie dingell about two major events happening with the mueller report. rt billions of mouths.

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expectations running high for a couple of big events around capitol hill. first up, you have the

department of justice inviting congressional leaders to view a mostly unredacted version of the mueller report. second, congressional democrats holding a conference call to discuss how to move forward now that the report has been released. here to talk to me is representative debbie dingell of michigan. you look great in this bright pink for easter. that's great. >> happy easter. >> and to you. thank you. let's talk about the conference call. what is the purpose of that for? is it about messaging, getting everybody on the same page that nancy pelosi wants to do? >> it's a time for our caucus to come together. you know our caucus has different ideas how to proceed. i have red the report, like most of my colleagues have. i'm on my second reading right now. and it's really disturbing. we don't talk about some of the disturbing facts in there, about russia trying to interfere in our elections and the number of

meetings. do we -- some of my colleagues think we're supposed to immediately proceed with articles to impeach. i say, let our committees work and get more of the facts. i want to hear mueller and barr testify. but it's a chance for us to come together and exchange ideas. i think we're all deeply disturbed by what we read and how do we proceed and how do we proceed together as best as we can? >> there may be more disturbing elements forthcoming with this. as you know, the attorney general is going to provide some members of congress the unredacted sections of the report. let's take a listen to what intel committee chair adam schiff was saying about it. >> we don't want the justice department to hide behind the gang of eight or hide behind the intelligence committee and shield from the other members of congress information they need to determine how to do their jobs in congress. >> is that a fair assessment? i mean, shouldn't they take at

least the opportunity to get at least the gang of eight, if you will, to get their eyes on it? and do you know any of the restrictions that come from seeing it and then being able to share the information? >> well, i suspect -- i mean, i do agree with that. members of congress should be able to see the unredacted. but then, we need to -- when there's national security issues, we need to keep our mouth shut, about what was found in there. normally, if you're in that type of classified briefing, you are bound by national security not to share what you have learned. i think the leadership of our various committees of jurisdiction are taking this very seriously. they understand what an impeachment process would do to this country, tear it apart if we don't have republicans working with us. but that we have -- the fore fathers of our country gave congress serious oversight responsibilities and we must protect the very foundations,

the pillars of our constitution. at the same time, the american people need us to be delivering on other things for the people. like, prescription drugs, pre-existing conditions, fixing our roads and our bridges, trade bills that level the playing field. so, we have to figure out how do we address serious attacks that were on our national security? when russia is trying to interfere in our election and the number of people in the trump world that talked to -- instead of going to the fbi and saying they are trying to interfere -- should bother people. we also have to figure out, how do those of us on the other committees doing their work, pay attention, lower prescription drug prices. that's my number one focus right now. >> it's been said before that the democrats can walk and chew gum at the same time. exactly. but tomorrow, ultimately, do you think that some of your democratic colleagues are going to accept the invitation to view the unredacted parts or do so

soon? and when they do, will they be able to report back? that's the part i'm not clear on yet. and i'm trying to figure out if it's going to happen. >> if you are in a classified setting, reading an unredacted report, you need to treat that as comfortabnfidential. and i want you to know that my colleagues take that seriously. those terms are probably being negotiated right now. i want everyone in this country, americans, to know that we respect classified briefings and protect national security. and when you think you read it on the front page of "the new york times," you shouldn't. >> any concerns about congressman nadler? as the chair of the house judiciary committee, issuing that subpoena, saying you have to hand over an unredacted version of the report? might have have waited to see barr's unredacted version? >> i think the subpoena was the right way to go, for him to receive that unredacted report.

and i don't -- i really want people to understand, i think how important mueller's testimony on the hill, where we might get his take and his opinion. he did not vindicate the president in this report, ether nor did he vindicate any in this administration. and the attorney general acted like a defense attorney when he wrote that four-page summary. that four-page summary having read the 438 pages, does not summarize what's in that report, and it is avoiding things that are making me not sleep at night. >> representative debbie dingell. good to see you. >> happy easter. >> and to you. the patriotic millionaires. how they want to save the middle class. but what accounts for their generosity. >> i love the country and i'm grateful. i have a good life. fe did you eat all of your treats?

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skewed in their favor and that is ultimately hurting the country. joining me now morris pearl, a former blackrock managing director. morris, with a welcome to you, this is an extraordinary concept. talk about the group, how it was formed, and what find of response you're getting from legislators. >> sure. the group was created about ten years ago to urge then president obama to let bush tax cuts expire for the wealthiest. they thought we were kind of dorks for tagging the left but we realized we were helping them and giving them space they needed to do what they wanted to do. they had us on the podium with the president when he gave it fame is buffett rule speech. since then we have expanded to basically use our members to let them speak out about how this gross inequality is hurting our nation. it's making it not the kind of country we want to grow up and raise our children and grandchildren and we're deeply concerned about that. we've been getting great responses from legislators.

every time we meet mostly with people on the democratic side, it's almost like a pep talk. yes, go on, this is what we need to do. a huge number of legislators have been using the material we've been given them to campaign on that material and 13 of the freshmen won election. >> but this has been a ten-year plan. you say this started ten years ago. so what exactly is the plan? how would you get the money? how would you get the money implemented into the country's coffers, if you will. what would you want to see done with it, how would you control it. lots of questions there. >> well, the plan is to explain that this gross inequality is really hurting our country, and we need to make -- instead of having the rich people get even richer an richer and richer, we need to make the rich people pay taxes that at least the same rates working people do. the problem is people like me may taxes at a fraction of the rate as regular working people

like you, alex, and that's just so unfair because it's making the people who are the wealthiest get even wealthier every year. the rest of the people are just getting by. so we believe that just has to change. >> morris, let me ask you, who are these people among the 200 or so members? everything you're saying i think a lot of people listening would think, wow, this guy really makes sense but how widespread is your opinion shared among those who could afford to do this kind of approach? >> as i said, we have a few hundred members around the country. they're mostly business people and investors. they're people who need middle class people to shop at their stores. they're people who sell expensive organic groceries and ice cream and shoes and all kinds of things. people more concerned about how much money their customers have to shop at their stores and help them get rich than about their tax rates. >> so it's win-win. do you have any guesstimate as

to how much you might be able to raise? >> well, changing the tax rates, it's not a matter of how much money we can raise, it's a matter of decreasing inequality in our country so the regular people can get by and have enough money to survive as opposed to the rich people getting rich are and richer and richer. that's the problem is the growing gap between the regular people and the few at the top. >> we hear that all the time. extraordinary that you are addressing it, morris pearl. bravo is all i'm going to say to that. >> thank you. >> thank you for joining us. >> thank you, alex. coming up, president trump's fascination with "game of thrones." woman 2: ...this... man 1: ...this is my body of proof. man 2: proof of less joint pain... woman 3: ...and clearer skin. man 3: proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis... woman 4: ...with humira. woman 5: humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. it's proven to help relieve pain, stop further irreversible joint damage, and clear skin in many adults.

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