al sharpton in politics nation. good evening and welcome to "politics nation." tonight's lead, while even the redacted mueller reports conclusions are debatable, there is no question that it will continue to be polarizing as congressional democrats demand the unredacted version in the next nine days. the president's agents told his line -- tow his line at all costs even if it trends toward treason. >> there's nothing wrong with taking information from russians. >> there's nothing wrong. >> it's okay for political campaigns to work with material stolen by foreign adversaries? >> depends on the foreign materials. was it all right frr the new york times and washington post

to print against the objecti objection -- >> you're putting pentagon papers and vladmir putin on the same reality? >> they didn't have a right to know how sneaky hillary and the people around her were. >> yep. that was the president's personal lawyer, rudy giuliani this morning justifying conspiracy with a foreign adversary. that's okay because of where it came from and of course hillary. folks, it just corroborates what we have known for the last three years but even the redacted mueller report all be spells out and that is that russia attacked our democracy to help a presidential candidate who welcomed it and then turned around and tried to bury it by obstructing the special counsel investigation.

the question tonight as we wait to see how much william barr complies with the full report is what will congress now do about it. let me go to you first, carol. you were a prosecutor. the open question of whether or not the president is guilty of obstruction of justice is one that appears, at least, to my reading the report that mueller has pivoted and thrown it to the congress. in terms of where the congress can go or not, can they make the argument that if the evidence and the supporting evidence that is now subpoenaed and assuming

the attorney general complies with it or if he fights it, the courts gives it to them. can they, if they find obstruction raise that to a level of a high crime and ground os f grounds for impeachment? >> i think it's up to congress to do that. they have to right to do that. high crimes and misdemeanors is a phrase that's never been well defined. i think an obstruction of justice came case if congress thought that the elements were there and met, i think that would fall under the definition of high crimes and disdemeanors. >> it's almost unbelievable to me a that we're even debating whether a sitting president was

in any way shape or form seeming to be comfortable with getting aid from russia, a foreign adversary. we're not talking about a foreign government which in itself is something is questionable on legal and moral grounds but we're talking about russia. his folks are saying he didn't do anything wrong. he didn't collude but he was responsible comfortable with receiving the information and seems like there's a new norm they are trying to establish here. >> that's a treasonous norm. you said the right word, rev. that would be treason. that is treason and it's the height of hypocrisy and cowardice if the dems do not undertake an impeach. inquir inquiry. that's the lawful thing to do,

the moral thing to do and ethical thing to do. it can be under the umbrella of various committees. we need to see the tax returns to understand if this president is governing according to russian interest or american interest. until we see that, we won't know if that president is that manchurian candidate that we feared after helsinki and we continue to have the right to fear he is that manchurian candidate. the idea that is moot now is unbelievable. >> aren't we at a sad state for the republican party when you have a president where the debate is, well, he the justice department has a policy we can indictment a president. not that he shouldn't be but they can't. when we have a president that is fighting not to release his tax

returns to show the american public what are the sources of his income before and during the race that could possibly compromise his judgment as president. i mean, i don't know how low you can bring the bar in both areas. >> well, rev, you can't go any lower than this. i think i should preface my remarks by saying rudy giuliani is an ids yaciot. i worked on four presidential campaign pps the only now republican in the senate to speak out against the president, briefly with rand paul and my final campaign was with ben carson. i cannot imagine anyone on any of those campaigns doing what took place on the trump campaign in 2015 and '16. . it's further concerning that russia was able to manipulate individuals so high up in the campaign and none of them realized this was against the law and if they did realize it, then that alone should concern

us that the president should not be in office. i think once donald trump is out of office, congress has to likely pass some time of legislation to make it a law that every single future candidate releases their tax returns because the american people has to know that something like this cannot occur again where the president of the united states is beholden to a foreign power. it disgusts me that not a single republican in the senate has said anything about this. if barack obama did half of what donald trump did, they would have dragged him out of the white house days, week, months ago. >> carol, should they also, the congress, look into whether or not there should be a law that says that you can prosecute a sitting president even if you put the trial over to after. i mean isn't it undue protection to say the president of the united states is above the law? >> i think there's something that congress should do in that

respect. congress should put in what we call a tolling agreement or a tolling statute that says even if you have a policy or if we have law even which we don't have, we have a policy of not indicting a sitting president, that time that the president is in office should be excluded from the statute of limitations so it picks up again only when the president leaves office so the president doesn't get to avoid criminal charges by staying in office longer. >> the fact is that we must look to the world like we are out of control here. we're talking about very blatant statements. we're talking about even in the mueller report that we have seen, the redacted version that the president had knowledge that his lawyer, michael cohen, lied to the special counsel's investigators and other things that are clearly on the other side of the line in terms of the

legal line and in terms of what you would expect the head of state of a democratic country would do and yet we are debating almost the footnotes here and acting like this is acceptable behavior. it's almost like we're letting him frame the conversation in very narrow, almost, small ways rather than the big picture is we are talking about things that are really putting national security at risk if we have adversaries that can influence the sitting president and we're talking about people lying to investigators. millionaires have gone to jail for lying to investigators, federal investigators. >> we're talking about the fundamental foundational underpinning of civil society.

law and order. for the democrats to dispel of impeachment and to think that it's politically disadvantageous is ludicrous. a return to normalcy, a return to law and order is a message that can be consistent with the platform of any of the announced democratic presidential c contendered whether it's mayor pete, senator harris, vice president biden who supposedly is entering the race next week. a return to law and order. more over, this president can be impeached. he can be. a simple majority in house of representatives can impeach this president. conviction, he can't probably be convicted but the idea of a sitting potus, an impeached potus running for re-election is a sight to see that has profoundly disasterous repercussions for his electoral

fate and something the democrats can rally behind, unite in favor of an argument for a return to law and order. >> if the president is impeached and the senate has to decide on conviction which most people feel they will not. is the reason that many of the republicans that would vote to not convict the president, is the reason that they fear that they would get primaried by pro-trump candidates in their state? >> absolutely. we have to keep in mind ooze as consider the politics, the president still has an extremely high approval rating within the republican party. what sort of really concerns me about this is that when you look at a lot of, at least the most recent polling data and surveys that are out there, this still isn't a top issue for the average american voter. that puts this in a very odd

sort of place, if you will for democrats which is why you see some folks like nancy p pe lelo saying we're not going to remove impeachment off the table but let's be careful in the way we approach this. democrats have to convince the american people that this is in their best interest. identify public meetings. bring back trump junior and others so they can make a case to american people. if you can put enough pressure on americans to say this is important enough, you can put pressure on maybe some republicans in the senate to say maybe we need to do something about this. that's not going to be easy and that concerns me. >> they have to be public hearings. >> absolutely. >> the other part is that you as

a former assume that prosecutors have to be concerned about how do we appear when we're not seeming to fairly enforce the law. i mean how many people will now be sought after by federal prosecutors that are use the trump defense saying i'm doing the same thing the president did. it almost raises the question of are we undermining the criminal justice system and hold up it is manipulative which many of us had our suspicions but this is almost blatant. >> that's always a concern to federal prosecutors. the issue of credibility of the department of justice is always a concern because if your jurors and the judges who preside over your cases do not believe that the department of justice is being an honest broker in how it carries out the laws and who it

chooses to prosecute and not prosecute, then there's a break down in the system and defense attorneys then argue that the law is not being administered fairly. that's a real tragedy for the justice system. keeping the playing field level, keeping the decisions transparent and fair, that's so important. >> all right. thank you. the panel is back for more. coming up, how much of the mueller report should be discussed on the 2020 campaign trail. i'll ask one of the candidates. does this map show the peninsula trail? you won't find that on a map.

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ncht my next guest is one of 18 democrats who are already announced that are running for president in 2020. congressman in ohio says the outcome of the mueller report is not what he's hearing about while talking to voters on the campaign trail. what about the impeachment of

trump. joining me tim ryan. 18 candidates in the race. we understand former vice president joe biden will join the race this week. how will you distinguish yourself from 19 opponents without having to do something bizarre or extreme? what is the difference that tim ryan brings to the offering, if you will, of candidates to democratic voters in the primary that is different but not divisive? >> well, i understand that people are struggling. i understand that people are sick and tired over the last really 20 or 30 years of just surviving. it's time for america to start thriving again. the fact that the president of the united states spends a lot of time dividing us, trying to divide white workers if black workers and black workers from brown workers and people who are

in manufacturing areas from people who are in rural areas or agriculture versus manufacturing. these days are over. i come from a district that president trump did well in and i do well in. i can bring this country back together. i've got plan for the future. they are tired of making 15 bucks an hour where they are lucky. we want to get todays where we're making 30, $40 an hour. i'm going to get us there. i understand what people are going through. i lived in the epi center of the deindustrialization of the united states and we're tired of the under employment. we want good solid jobs. i think that's a unifying mission for all of us. if people believe in that mission, we want them to two to t timryanforamerica.com. i'm already feeling it oen the

ground ground in iowa and new hampsh e hampshire. >> the democratic party has been dominated by the west coast and the east coast. do you agree with that and do you feel there needs to be female kfocus on the middle of the country in a lot of their concerns. >> like the midwest, the south and et cetera. >> i do. us losing that sends a signal we have become disconnected. i will tell you there's a lot worveging class people on the

coasts too when i go on shows in new york or some big city on the coast. the camera people say we're rooting for you. we need a working class candidate. we need a working class president. it's the sensibility that there's more concern about the political class. forgetting about the workers who built the country and raids ead go to work in good paying jobs. they want the government to help build aen econo an economy that for everybody. we make one to two million electric vehicles today. by 2030 we'll make 30 million electric vehicles. i want those built in the united states.

the president keeps dividing us. i can unite this country. you should benefit in the midwest as well as the south as well as silicon valley or wall street. we all have to move together. i believe i can do that. . >> do you hear people wanting the congress to move forward on impeachment and what is your position on that as a member of congress? >> i've not heard a lot about it with the people i've talked to. i know this is a concern. i've read the report. it is shocking. i believe there is obstruction been the president of the united states on multiple occasions where he did that. i believe that jerry nadler and

the judiciary committee should continue having hearings. your previous guests articulated it well. let's make sure the american people understand what's going on here. let's have these open hearings. let's bring mueller and others from the administration before the american people and allow them to really fully understand what's going on. what's most shocking is what russia is doing. i talked about the president trying to divide us. russia wants us divided because a divided country is weak country. china wants us divided because a divided country is weak country. you can't get a good economy going. i think we need to let chairman nadler move forward. we need to heal from this process but we also need to hold people accountable. i think jerry nadler needs to take that next step.

>> thank you. congressman tim ryan. up next, another shameless effort to stop and criminalize voter registration. i'll explain. a programming note, tune in next saturday for a msnbc special where we put the hard questions to leading 2020 candidates about inequality in america. it's called not just black and white and the 2020 race and the 2020 election. that's next saturday, april 27th at 8:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. we'll be right back. be right ba.

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now for this week's gotcha. in two weeks i'll be headed to tennessee to speak to the graduationing classes of both tennessee state and fisk university. as it turns out, these students as well as the rest of the state are facing a fresh attempt by republicans to suppress voting rights. less than six months after the black voter project registered more than than 90,000 voters in tennessee. the gop led house has now passed

a bill to make tennessee the first state to criminalize some voter registration drives. the legislation would require groups leading voter registration training to face fines up to $10,000 for turning incomplete applications opinion stop sign secretary of state thinking the best thing to do is levee fines or possible jail time for registration mistakes. now keep in mind, that tennessee has one of the lowest voter turn outs in the nation and apparently that's how republicans want to keep it. you don't jail people for participating in our democratic process. this is not only immoral but

reminiscent of jim crow. this is being done in direct response to black folks mobilizing during the mid terms and republicans are trying to do everything in their power to stop this. tomorrow when the tennessee senate takes up this measure for once put our democracy first and protect voting rights. if the 2018 midterms were an indication, the blue wave is coming so either way, we got you. coming so either way, we got you. h. not this john smith. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith. who we paired with a humana team member to help address his own specific health needs. at humana, we take a personal approach to your health, to provide care that's just as unique as you are. no matter what your name is. ♪

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joe biden will join the democratic race for president, launching a campaign that biden is gambling that his politics will impress the issues more than the democratic rivals. >> you said last year that you would make a decision january of '07. are you running for president? >> i am running for president. >> joe biden is running for president again. well, not officially but numerous sources are now saying that the former vice president will announce this coming wednesday he is joining the presidential race for the third time in his career. how will that shape the field of candidates? back with me republican strategi strategist. some say that joe biden is the one that can talk to those

states in middle america and can appeal to some of the trump voters that have felt the economic support benefits that mr. trump as president have promised has come forward. what say you? >> i agree with that. what concerns me though is biden will probably run more as a centrist. i'm not certain there's an a ti appetite for his stature. least o he's older. you think about the blue wall, if you will. you need someone who can talk to those disenfranchised voters. those working class white voters. i know a lot of people are saying the future for the democratic party is minority, african-american, hispanic, et

cetera. i agree with that but in those places, the demonstragraphics a different. that's a reality. you need someone who can talk to the voters and build the infrastructure to mobilize the people. i think joe biden has the best chance to do that in comparison the the other candidates. i think him matched with the right person, maybe a kamala harris and serves one term and kamala run the next term, i think that could be a solid team. >> he's already gave one term. he's reassessed the demographics of the democratic primaries. what do you say? >> we'll see if this is another flame out from the former senator and vice president. those campaign ts didns didn't endurance. the american public wasn't on

board. i think this campaign will be the final determining test as to whether or not he does have that stam ma and endurance. whether it was president clinton's appeal or president obama's appeal. i bring up the mueller investigation only in so far i think this will be contentious primary as long as sanders retains 20% of the primary caucus vote. this team of rivals will require a unified front on this question of impeachment, law and order.

if they don't have that unity then they won't have the ability to counter program what will be i think a contentious, skirmishing anomong them. he didn't represent pennsylvania. the point is more than joe biden can appeal to disaffected workers whether they are yellow, green, orange, black, white, whatever. it's not simply vice president biden's perogative. >> there's a debate going around

that the dnc said we're not going to do any of the debates on fox. now you have democrats starting with bernie sanders doing town hall meetings on fox. some of the message is they are trying to get the hearing with the trump type of voter, the trump base and some are saying why aren't you working more to bring out more black, more women, more lgbtq. why are you chasing that vote? are they making a mistake going on fox, reaching out for that? >> in the town hall format, i don't think they are making a mistake. that's smart. you're got giving the fox propaganda machine an opportunity to assault the democratic front runners or candidates but an open forum of

ideas. mayor pete came under fire on twitter within last 24 hours for feeding the idea of politics of resentment and justifying the ill will of certain folks ta might have been denied opportunity. >> let me ask you this because i'm going to run out of town. do they risk making fox more normalized with their own voters. does that run counter to isolated fox as those are not people that are considered in the mainstream political media by the democratic party. >> i don't think so. the democratic party will do whatever it sees.

as you talk about the rust belt and that means talking to some of those voters. this notion that we only talk to people that agree with us is concerning to me. that's what donald trump does. we don't need a continuance of that. i commend them to say i'm going to go where it's uncomfortable. i'm going to say this guy has failed you. this is what i can do better. that's the way democracy works and that's called good candidates. >> all right. thank you. enjoy the rest of your easter sunday. up next, you know them as gifted musicians and soul music f phenoms. wait until you hear what they have to say about the president

and politics. the o jays are here on politics nation. are here on policits nation conventional wisdom says you can't make a 400 horsepower sedan, that's also environmentally conscious. we don't follow conventional wisdom. ♪ ♪ it's kind of unfair that safe drivers have to pay as much for insurance... as not safe drivers! ah! that was a stunt driver. that's why esurance has this drivesense® app. the safer you drive, the more you save. don't worry, i'm not using my phone and talking to a camera while driving... i'm being towed. by the way, i'm actually a safe driver. i'm just pretending to be a not safe driver. cool. bye dennis quaid! when insurance is affordable, it's surprisingly painless. p3 it's meat, cheese and nuts. i keep my protein interesting. oh yea, me too. i have cheese and uh these herbs.

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uniquely responsible for what we know as soul music today. for nearly six decades, they have class, stage presence and of course there's that harmony. what was always something that set them apart from their peers is they had social and political messages just beneath the silky soul. their 1974 hit for the love of money was all about the dark side of the dollar. making it the perfect theme song for donald trump's show the apprentice. they have taken pains to distance themselves from the trump stamp forcing their displeasure with conservatives using that i can musing their m president trump in general. i think we can all sing to that.

i'll leave it to my next quest guests. joining me in studio, my heroes, eddie levert and walter williams. i've known y'all for years. first of all, unlike what many people think, you always supported causes as you perform. this is nothing new for you. we started out with the love train, the back stabbers, for the love of money and then donald, mr. trump, used our song "for the love of money" for his apprenti apprentice. you just -- then we had to part ways because he wanted to use "love train" as -- >> call it trump train. >> we had to tell him.

he tried to use it any way. >> so you're telling me that love train, he wanted to use it for trump train. >> yes. >> while he was running. >> that's amazing. >> especially when he came to cleefd cleveland. they played it throughout the whole convention. >> you had to take position with that. >> yes, legal action. cease and desist, please. >> i think that people don't understand that you all did this even risking commercial value of your career. there was a line you said, we'll take a position for a lot of artists ignore. you've been consistent with there's been the o jays and i've known the o jays you stood up. >> walter, i want to read to viewers, i want to talk about this. one of the lyrics from the song

that you're coming out now called "above the law." it says man with pen in his han the war on poverty. so now you say we're all created equal, but the sound of the gavel tells us quite another sequel. black boy on drugs, imprisonment and heavy fine, white boy on drugs, treatment to restore his mind. what did y'all have mind? >> to tell the truth about the whole situation. when i had to sing this lyric, i told him somewhere in the south we'll be arrested for this. y'all gone have to come get us out of jail. they laughed it off, but i meant ut. what i think we have to do is stay prayed up. >> eddie, what did those lyrics mean to you? you say this is the last word. i don't like to hear y'all are

not going to do any more albums. but what was your statement here? >> at the end of the day just to let them know that we see the changes and we want the people to understand while they dance and understand that this is what's going on behind your back and behind the words. and if you listen to words, you will understand what you need to do as far as correcting this stuff. and the -- i think it was something that needed to be said and to let everybody know that no one, not even donald trump, is above the law. >> wow. now, do you feel artists, a lot of young artists on the scene now, do you feel they have an obligation to make some statements about the conditions, the fans, that have supported them are going through? >> absolutely. i totally agree with that reverend because of the fact that they -- these young kids --

they're getting a lot of money. they're getting -- they're getting a lot of exposure. they can be cause and effect here. they can make changes just by educating the young people. and that's where it has to start, with the young people. they've got to get into their mind, let them know that all this material stuff is not the important thing. we've got to pass some on to everybody. >> walter, when you say last word, do y'all really mean this is it in terms of albums? >> i kind of in between right there. >> i'm on the other side. y'all have got to keep. >> i think we're going to keep going as long as we can. '76, '75 -- >> really? and still dancing. >> yes. sometimes. >> i've seen you. y'all still can do it. y'all will be at the apollo this week. >> friday.

>> y'all can still move. and what gets me is a lot of young artists try to move and walk back and forth to the microphone. you are out there -- you might not do a split but you're doing everything else. >> no, they'll never see that again. >> we still have to entertain, and we still enjoy entertaining people. we're going to do what we can while we can as long as we can. >> what has been the secret to why the o jays has been hot for 60 years and still coming back and still wherever you appear people are paying to see you? what do you think is the secret? >> exactly what you just said, we still respect the fact that people are spending their hard-earned money to see us. and we have to respect that to the point that we have to give them people what they want every time that they come and see us. and that's what we do. and we try to make them want to come back and spend their money. >> what do you hope the legacy

of the o jays will be in music history and american history? >> every time they saw us or heard us, that we were trying to do the very best that we could. and what it really comes down to is god and me and eddie. >> well, you've done that. and you'll have that legacy. thank you eddie and walter. the o jays new album is called "the last word." you need to check it out. >> and no one is above the law. >> you hear that, mr. president?

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>> today christians celebrated easter sunday, and many observe passover. as we all sincerely stop and deal with holidays that represent our religious beliefs, we must also keep in mind that around the world people are being targeted for their religious beliefs. what has happened in sri lanka where hundreds have now been killed targeted at places of worship, pittsburgh where jews were targeted because of their place of worship, in charleston, south carolina at the ame church targeted because of their religion. when we become so insensitive and so cowardly that we would

kill people in prayer, kill people that are communicating with god as they see and relate to god, then we all that remain alive and well in believes in whatever faith should remember this on days like this and all be involved in trying to make sure that the world is sensitized that that is in no way, shape, or form justified or excusable even if it's not a place of worship or faith that you believe in. when i bring up about the churches burning in louisiana which was arson, we need to understand that there was a time that people had their views but would at least have a line that they would draw. it's a sad day when even houses of worship are not houses of refuge. that doesn't it for me.

thanks for watching. i'll see you back here next saturday at 5:00 p.m. eastern and then again at 8:00 p.m. eastern for an msnbc special. it's called "not just black and white: race and the 2020 election." that's next saturday at 8:00 p.m. on msnbc. up next, "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> this sunday after mueller, president trump. >> no collusion, no obstruction. >> and his allies. >> the best day since he got elected. >> claim total victory with the release of the mueller report but the report paints unflattering picture of the president and has campaign and lays out a pattern of obstruction prompting mr. trump to bash the report with a profanity. and democrats demand to see the whole document. my guest this morning the chairman of the house