in new york city. >> thanks. president trump stone walls congress refusing to obey se a subpoenas. >> we're fighting all the subpoenas. these aren't like imparabtial people. the democrats are trying to win 2020. >> it's not about politics. it's about patriotism. there's a threat to our democracy in terms of our constitution. don't ask, don't tell. the white house denying that top officials were told not to raise their concerns about russian election interference in 2020 with the president because it rehiends minds him. >> i'm worried about multiple foreign

foreign actors. veep. joe biden faces unique obstacles. how much will name recognition help or hurt? good day president trump sounding off against house subpoenas. defiant in the fame of congressional demands. >> i say it's enough. get back to infrastructure. get back to cutting taxes. get back to lowering drug prices. that's what really we should be doing. >> the president's combative message competing what he told the washington post in a call tuesday night saying there's no reason to go any further. mr. trump's strategy to slug it out in court telling key current and former staff to innognore

congressional subpoenas. >> this subpoena is ridiculous. i've been the most transparent president and administration in the history of our country by far. i thought after two years wooeds we would be finished. the house wants to know every deal i've ever done. mueller, assume, for 35 million checked my taxes. checked my financials which are great, by the way. you know they're great. >> joining me now nbc white house correspondent kristen welker and ruth marcus. welcome. kristen, we have seen it all but that was classic trump.

clearly trying to run out the clock and saying to the house democrats we're not getting anything. i'll see you in court. >> reporter: the president has been defiant all morning long on twitter and then upon departing the white house and he's heading to an opioid event in georgia today. that's where he wants to put the focus. the bottom line is he's digging in against these requests from congressional democrats for more information and for some of his current and former officials to testify. don mcgahn, they want to hear from him. the former white house counsel. he testified to bob mueller for over 30 hours. now democrats saying they have more questions for him because he's someone who is engaged in a number of those very thorny conversations that occurred here at the white house president trump's argument is this. he goes back to this issue of transparency. what he is really talking about his legal team strategy right from the beginning which was to turn over a number of documents.

to make a number of officials available to robert mueller. president trump never sat down with mueller himself. his critics would say there's not transparency there and congress wants the see the president's tax returns. this is an escalating battle. i think you'll see the president use it not only as he heads off to an event like the one today but out on the campaign trail. >> michael steel, when you were working with john boehner and trying to get information from eric holder, the attorney general, what was your experience? where do we stand on the whole issue of separations of powers? >> we were never happy with the speed of the obama justice department's transparency efforts but it's a whole different universe than what we're seeing now. usually the executive branch pretends to try. this administration is doing nothing but stone walling, delays and dragging it out.

they are only there about one day out of three. if krou can delay long enough, they will slip into this 2020 primary mode and you'll escape scrutiny. i think that's what they are counting on. i think washington democrats need to rediscover the fierce urgency of now if they want to get the results they are seeking in a time that makes sense. >> ruth marcus you're the only harvard lawyer on our panel today. what about the fact you have, in particular don mcgahn testifying for 30 hours. appearing 150 times in mueller report. he's told his story. how can you exert executive privilege. you have a trump tweet saying he was fine with this white house counsel testifying. >> yes. the concept behind executive privilege is the president has to know that his conversations with his top advisers will be

shielded from being revealed. once the president has allowed those to be revealed, they are out there. once you waived the privilege, you can't sort of turn around in a sort of normal world and say you want it back. as michael points out, we're not living in normal world. we're living this trump world which is to say that was then, this is now. the bigger question for the trump folks as the strategic matter and trying to prevent the testimony of former white house counsel don mcgahn is whether they want to be going out there and trashing him, trashing his veracity as they are hoping he doesn't testify because they are not the boss of him anymore. he needs to worry about whether he's got ethical obligations but he probably doesn't have those. i would not be just, if i with r the trump folks, not just thinking about the law of executive privilege but the law of don't beat up on the guy who could hurt you. >> just to recap, what the

president told robert costa in an extraordinary interview last night on the telephone. he said i allowed many i lawyers and all the people to go and testify to mueller and you know how i feel about that whole group of people that did the mueller report. i was to transparent. they testified for so many hours. they have all the information that's been given. with a follow up to you ruth, don mcgahn is the lawyer for the presidency, not his personal lawyer. lawyer-client privilege would not obtain here. >> correct. >> if he was so transparent, why were there citations about the instances where the white house refused to cooperate, refused to be transparent and objected to permitting key people to testify. >> most notably declining to make the president, himself, available for an interview and declining to answer even written questions on the obstruction matter. i kind of go back to michael's

point which is in a normal world if you look back to say president clinton dealing with ken star's investigators, they thought it was too dangerous. they slow walked the star folks. they delayed for a long time but thought in the end they couldn't sustain the public relations injury of telling starr to take a hike, which i guess is the legal term, so they didn't. we're now in trump world. he told mueller to take a hike. we're done. congress take a hike. i guess my question is congress gets its backbone up and works for more than a day or two a week. how much they can really press this and get this accomplished

before trump successfully runs out the clock. it's a real worry. >> in fact, trump, the president and significantly his attorney general have completely branded the mueller report, the findings incorrectly and also branded the whole issue of russian interference. now you have the acting chief of staff telling kirsten nielsen before she was forced out not to bring up the subject of organizing an administration wide cabinet level against future russian interference with the attempts in 2018 because it wasn't a great subject. it should be kept below the president's level. this deliberate attempt, there were 5,000 russian bots eliminated from twitter. this is a continuous effort and

it's not being organized. . >> no. i think you're exactly right. this is just a reminder of the vulnerability that the president still feels about the russia investigation. he thinks the whole hacking issue casts a poll off his je legitimate ma si. he's deeply fearful of that to his day. it's gotten to him on a personal level. he can't let it go. i think the question going forward is whether or not the president's personal qualms, grievances, anger over the way that the democrats are going to be coming after him over the next 18 months overwhelm his ability to articulate a clear, concise case for why people should re-elect him. at the moment, there's a lot of worry among republicans that the president and the republican

party don't really have much to run on. the tax cuts, yes. they put more money in mediumpe pockets but just a little bit for most ordinary americans. there's a question about whether the country will face an economic slow down as we go into the general election. i think that you could be looking at a really ugly, negative general election campaign in which the president of the united states does really the one thing he knows how to do best and that's savage his opponents. that's absent any type of really clear case for why people should re-elect him. i know there's a lot of republicans worried about that. >> on the democratic side, michael steel, are they at risk of -- even though there are compelling reasons to have these house investigations to force, try to get some action on the subpoenas, are they talking about the wrong things politically because there's investigations fatigue. some of these hearings won't

produce the results they hoped for. >> i think they'll have to do three tracks here. first i'm amazed they are not doing more on the cyber security issue on capitol hill. i think despite the blinders the president has, that's a huge issue and one con grgsal democrats should be active on. they need to continue working on the bread and butter issues they believe helped house democrats win the majority. they need to talk about health care. they need to talk about infrastructure and all of these things that voters voted for. that voters are asking them about in town halls. they want abandon their constitutional responsibility to continue to do effective oversight of the trump administration. whether or not that leads to impeachment is unclear at this point. there are too many areas where there are outstanding questions. at this point this is less a fishing expedition than fishing with dynamite. >> kristen welker you reached out and got a response from mick

mulvaney about the pushback against having cabinet level against russian interference and the response that you got was i don't recall anything along those lines happening in any meeting. the trump administration will not tolerate foreign interference. we have taken many steps to revent r prevent this in the future. this against the backdrop of jared kushner saying the foreign interference was less damaging than the mueller investigation amounting to a couple of facebook posts which is just patently false. >> reporter: right. it was a lot more than a few facebook posts. we're talking about thousands they they believe were sweeping and we're increasingly learning about how sweeping it was and the threat continues. what has the administration done so far. if you ask top officials, they

will say what we have done, dhs, doj have this process to try to sure up the infrastructure at state and local levels. president trump signed an executive order threatening to slap more sanctions. critics argue those measures don't go far enough and needs to be a top down approach. president trump himself needs to send that message that it won't be tolerated now. upon his departure, he answered two questions today. we tried to get some questions to him about this very matter. didn't answer. we'll save them for next time. this is going to be put to the president over and over again. >> a letter from doj to elijah cummings. no one from the justice department will be permitted to testify to a house committee without a lawyer present. also, a question to you as to whether the white house can run the clock on the subpoenas and drag it out through the courts

and resist the subpoenas for the tax rumeturns and testimony fro former officials like don mcgahn. >> to enforce the subpoena, i'm not sure about the tax returns because that's a separate provision of law but to enforce the other subpoenas, you have to get, i think, the justice department to litigate for you. good luck with that. if you can't do that, there may be other avenues to enforcement but the normal process is give and take and negotiate terms and is it under oath. is the lawyer present? what's the scope of the inquiry? we are not in normal land. i keep saying that. i think that the ability to -- normally the ability to enforce the subpoenas and requests are norms, but when you need to

resort to litigation, i think the experience of eric holder is he left office by time that litigation was completed. that's a kind of troubling road map and maybe a good one for the trump folks to be looking at. >> ruth marcus and kristen welker, thanks to all. coming up, the biden factor. how the 2020 presidential race will change once the former vice president officially announces tomorrow. stay with us right here on an dree t -- msnbc. dree t -- msnbc. oh...i needed this. no, i can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on our car insurance with geico. we could have been doing this a long time ago. so, you guys staying at the hotel? yeah, we just got married. oh ho-ho! congratulations! thank you. yeah, i'm afraid of commitment... and being boiled alive. oh, shoot.

believe it. geico could save you 15% or more on car insurance. that guy's the worst.

the latest inisn't just a store.ty it's a save more with a new kind of wireless network store. it's a look what your wifi can do now store. a get your questions answered by awesome experts store. it's a now there's one store that connects your life like never before store. the xfinity store is here. and it's simple, easy, awesome.

joe biden is less than 24 hours away from his big announcement breaking into the 2020 presidential race. already facing several charges in a new political era highlighted by diverse candidates, expanding progressive base skeptical of the old guard. he will have to compete with familiar faces like bernie sanders and beto o'rourke and pete buttigieg. joining me is former democratic governor who has worked alongside joe biden for decades and considered running until last week. >> great to be back with you. >> why didn't you run? >> i got close. i would have thought a week ago

i was definitely running. it would have been a tough pathway. a lot of the things i thought were important to say on the issues but you got to go where your heart is and where you think you can make the biggest difference. virginia needed me. i decided to go where i can make the big difference. as governor i worked hard for four years. took the state to the next level. took it to a level we hadn't seen nationally. now we need to go globally. yesterday i agreed to 41 events. it's an important election coming up in virginia. >> what about the national election? what about donald trump? is joe biden the right answer? you know him better than anyone. >> sure. we have a lot of great

candidates running. what i lo above about joe biden people know his value and his character. you can put joe biden up against any world leader in the entire globe. he will build a strong relationship which will benefit america. he stood next to president obama. pushed for the aca, the affordable care act and made sure that everybody got health care. 20 million more people got health care. he's been a leader in climate change. >> just to interrupt you for a second. on the assault weapons ban in the '90s, he was helping the nra with some issues they had. does he have too much of a record and a lot to answer for as things have changed?

>> a lot of folks have been in politics a long time. i know his character, his value set. you put joe biden against donald trump, are you kidding me? it's not even close call. he'll have to answer. he's had a long career in politics. we all do. that's okay. joe biden will get out there and explain all those. what i'm hoping is we have a real discussion on issues. i want to see us talking about what american families care about. i can tell you right now in virginia and these 40 plus events, i'm going to be with local folks who want to talk about health care. people put these litmus tests and medicare for all. we got to focus on what matters to the voters at home. health care costs, coverages is important. we better drill down on helping people pay for their prescription drugs, people are upset they go to a hospital. they're in network.

all of a sudden an an these gist shows up that's out of net work. you get home with a $2,000 bill. fwhe we need more generic drugs. that's what i'm hoping the democrats focus on. let's get away from these shiny objects and people have these litmus tests. people want action. they want results. they want people to get in and help them. i've been leading on this effort. tell me what you're going to do for me. sg you' >> you're making a very good case for your campaign. he's getting in a little late. he's on fund raising alone, he's in the old model. right now joe biden would have

to raise more than $100,000 every day until next christmas only to match what sanders has banked at the start of april. that is, a co pretty extraordin. are you going to become a bundler for biden? if so, isn't that the old model? that doesn't work according to the current campaign. >> i've raised a lot of money in my past. joe biden has gigantic name id. a lot of the other candidates will get in, buttigieg and others need to name id up. he doesn't need as much money as the others. i hope as we go forward, there's a yearning in this country for people to talk about infrastructure and ha do we do about infrastructure.

i'm proud as governor of virginia. >> will you going to endorse joe biden? >> i'll sit down and have discussions. i'm a huge fan, a huge supporter. i want every democratic candidate, listen to me closely, i want every single one of you to commit you'll come to virginia this year. you're going to do a fund-raiser with me and do a political event with me to win the house and senate in virginia for the first time in 26 years. i fought hard to stop all of those issues that i had to deal with as governor. shutting down or woman's health clinics. i stopped all that. there were bills i wanted on assault weapon ban and background checks and closing gun show loophole. they never saw the light of day in a republican legislature. with a democratic legislature, we can make virginia the beacon globally. i need these candidates help and i need it this yiear. presidential will come fast.

redirecti in redistricting is something i cared about for years. we need fair lines, competitive lines. i support non-partisan independent groups. we got to get the voters. >> there's nobody better than staying on a message than terry. state, local. it's about virginia. get them to commit to campaign with you. >> virginia for lovers. we're the place to be. don't live anywhere. >> thank you so much for being with us. coming up, separation anxi anxiety. the new homeland security chief telling lester holt how he will resist the pressure. resist the pressure. does this map show the

peninsula trail? you won't find that on a map. i'll take you there. take this left. if you listen real hard you can hear the whales. oop. you hear that? (vo) our subaru outback lets us see the world. sometimes in ways we never imagined. wake up! there's a lot that needs to get done today. small things. big things. too hard to do alone things. day after day, you need to get it all done. and here to listen and help you through it all is bank of america.

with the expertise and know-how you need to reach that blissful state of done-ness. so let's get after it. ♪ everything is all right what would you like the power to do?® ♪ all right

tto harrison, the wine the tcollection.. to craig, this rock. the redwoods to the redheads. the rainbows to the proud. i leave these things to my heirs,

all 39 million of you, on one condition. that you do everything in your power to preserve and protect them. with love, california. president trump today warning about a new so called caravan of migrants as a 3-year-old child was found

abandoned in a corn field at the border tuesday morning. illegal crossings and the separate of families among the many issues for kirsein 's replacement. he spoke about the border crisis to lester holt. >> you became the face of the family separation issue. the reports are your predecessor was shown the door because she didn't want to move down that road. is that something that you would reconsider, family separations in any form? >> i think the president has been clear that family separation is not on the table. again, this was a zero tolerance prosecution initiative. it have targeted at adults violating the law. it did have the impact of several 2,000 plus families being separated during that prosecution. >> in your view, did family separation work even if it was ugly publicly? >> prosecuting violations of law does have a consequence and deter behavior. it did not work if you lose the

public trust. if you can't maintain an initiative from an enforcement perspective is not worth it. >> joining me now, is jacob along with sydney. congratulations. we are so proud for all of your reporting across all of the networks of nbc. >> thank you for all the support throughout. this touches the at a time department. it touches the white house. there r dozens were dozens of p involved. >> only today, the congressman bipartisan call from foreign affairs committee against the cancellation of state department moneys to the northern triangle. to the three countries where it counts. we know it works. it stopped the flow and reduced the flow during one of the previous migrant surges. the president is against it.

>> he's a career guy with jeh johnson and his predecessor. no comment from your calls to homeland. >> the super caravan which you go to the people, you expect the folks who know the most about it and i was able to get nothing. i guess you got to go to the source, the president. he's the one that puts his information in this tweet. are you getting your intelligence from? if i can't get an answer from the department that deals with this, what are you talking about? >> children were separated even starting before they acknowledged what jeff sessions announced, the separation policy. they had a trial program. they had no procedures for reuniting these families.

you also have an i.c.e. crackdown on people that had been here for decades. a family of from chicago, man who had been here for 30 years and he was deported to mexico so his american kids, his three daughters, four daughters, i think including a disabled child are now have moved to mexico along with his wife to be with him. >> i'm done very similar stories where you have an american child going to school in mexico because his father was deported even though the little boy was born and raised in the united states. the father did have a criminal conviction. let's be clear. those types of deportations definitely happened under president obama. president obama deported more people than any other president in history. far fewer in the second term and far fewer people without criminal records. that's the distinction. in the trump administration he's buffer bumped up deportations on people that don't have criminal record, violent crimes. it's one element of many that's got everybody looking at this

administration and saying what is the intention here. is it to go after -- remember, the number one group of undocumented immigrants are people that over stay their vee sa -- visas and not people that come across the boarder. it's not something they talked about until right now. >> lester also asked about the report that the president told him to shut the border and if he broke the law, he would pardon him. something that's been denied. let's watch. >> so i'm not going to do anything that violates the law. ever. i'm a law enforcement official. i've been asked to serve in this role. i'll carry that out with full focus on my legal duties. that said, i've never been asked, never been suggested to do anything unlawful by the president or anything else and i wouldn't do it. >> he said i've never been asked to do anything unlawful but he didn't say the president didn't ask me to do that. he's in a sensitive position.

sher he's a career -- one of the top career folks before he moved over to dhs. now he's up against the president who has an underlying policy. wants to detain families during their asylum proceedings and number two turn around and immediately deport, young, unaccompanied minors the minute they set foot in this country. that's something immigration activists say is inhumane. >> your focus on this, your reporting in the field is just been extraordinary. now it's being recognized. we could not be more proud. >> thank you. she is people. this afternoon 2020 candidates are on stage in houston. a first of its kind forum. readyaveeno's sheer formulaiant? packed with pure soy evens tone and texture. so skin looks like this. and you feel like this. aveeno® positively radiant get skin happy™

about medicare and supplemental insurance. medicare is great, but it doesn't cover everything - only about 80% of your part b medicare costs, which means you may have to pay for the rest. that's where medicare supplement insurance comes in:

to help pay for some of what medicare doesn't. learn how an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by united healthcare insurance company might be the right choice for you. a free decision guide is a great place to start. call today to request yours. so what makes an aarp medicare supplement plan unique? well, these are the only medicare supplement plans endorsed by aarp and that's because they meet aarp's high standards of quality and service. you're also getting the great features that any medicare supplement plan provides. for example, with any medicare supplement plan you may choose any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. you can even visit a specialist. with this type of plan, there are no networks or referrals needed. also, a medicare supplement plan goes with you when you travel anywhere in the u.s. a free decision guide will provide a breakdown

of aarp medicare supplement plans, and help you determine the plan that works best for your needs and budget. call today to request yours. let's recap. there are 3 key things you should keep in mind. one: if you're turning 65, you may be eligible for medicare - but it only covers about 80% of your medicare part b costs. a medicare supplement plan may help pay for some of the rest. two: this type of plan allows you to keep your doctor - as long as he or she accepts medicare patients. and three: these are the only medicare supplement plans endorsed by aarp. learn more about why you should choose an aarp medicare supplement plan. call today for a free guide.

eight of the 17 or 18 or 20, 2020 hopefuls, the democrats will gather in houston today at a conference organized by women of color. a critical block in the democratic primary. the she the people forum is focused on gender and economic issued identified by the organizers. while each candidate was hand picked to reflect the diversity of the crowded field of democrats, polls still show this white men are taking the top spots. early polling can be very

misleading. joining me is former white house communications director for the obama white house. welcome both. first to you maya. this is unusual because it's such an important voting block. we see it in all the results yet we haven't seen in the past focusing on these issues. >> yes. the way i think about it is black women have had a fora. it's called the beauty shop. black women it's not just voting which black women vote in very high numbers but it's get out the vote. it's voter registration. it's all the participation that drives what can be very successful election results for those who can garner their vote. this is the first time we've had this national convening that has really called all the candidates to come speak directly to black women about what they will do for black women. >> jim, we know how important

this focus was in this sector. made a big difference in the primaries last time around. who is it going to appeal to the people to women of color, to people of color and why are pete buttigieg buttigieg and beto o'rourke and bernie sanders still bunching through in the ways that some of the women candidates are not? >> i want to underscore what maya said is black women are the best voters in the country meaning they vote more per capita than any other demographic in the country. they are important to the democracy. they are the best, most reliabilireliable voters. bill clinton would not have been president of the united states, lyndon johnson, carter would not have been elected either were it not for black women. i don't know if you can predict how they will vote based off of someone's demographic.

back then we didn't have a lot of choices. now we have a lot of great diverse choices that they can consider but they do seem -- when you see women interviewed from the forum they are fou kcu on issues. they want to hear what they will do to create jobs. they are concerned about issues and things that will affect their own lives. it's something to see all the top of the polls being led by three white men. i have to say, i'm concerned that somebody who worked for a woman candidate last time that there's something that about the sort of bias we still hold about leadership and what that looks like. that makes us gravitate towards men and even white men. that it is something about how we -- this image that we still

hold makes it harder for the women candidates who are really great to breakthrough. i think that maybe some of the rea reactions we'll see today will tell us if that will change. >> we lived through this in the campaigns where hillary clinton was so focussed and advised in 2008 to prove that she could be commander in chief and we remembers who is answering that 3:00 many the morning call. there was a counter point in 2016. i'm a grandmother. i'm a woman. not knowing how to define women -- women not knowing how to define themselves in terms of gender and what people want and how to fit in. you see women affected by that. one of the organizers of the she the people campaign was on with rachel maddow last night. i want to play part of that interview. >> she the people is telling a

brand new story about women of color to the nation. that is we're the most progressive voters as you rightly said. we are the very critical core of the democratic vote. we're one of four voters in many of the swing states that trump won. elevating women of color in this moment to speak directly to the presidential campaigns is crucial. we believe women of color can lead and build a multi-racial inclusive coalition to win not only the primary but the white house itself in 2020. >> maya. >> absolutely. all we have to do, regular doug jones in alabama. doug jones owes that senate race to black women. black women have always been interested in issues that are fundamental to families, to prosperity. when we see candidates starting to address issues of housing, as we have seen with elizabeth warren and child care.

actually making child care an issue, that is in part because black women have worked very hard to fight for those issues. i think we are seeing, i would say about it withe polling, one the things i think is happening, there's a way in which the media gets directed to some of these candidates and the name recognition does happen to benefit them in the early polling. i think we'll start to see that change. >> briefly, we see that stacy abrams broke through in a way. she had so many head winds from the legal restrictions, the false restrictions from the secretary of state but look at the way her candidacy took off. >> it did. elizabeth warren is very focused on issues. i suspect that's the kind of candidate whose por ypularity

breaks. they're not kind of candidates that catch the early head lilin and the early buzz. >> great to have you both. thank you. coming up, enough is enough. a former trump transition team member is using the i word. stay with us. you're watching andrea mitchell reports on msnbc. g andrea mitch reports on msnbc add up the year. but what i do count on... is staying happy and healthy. so, i add protein, vitamins and minerals to my diet with boost®. delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals your body needs. all with guaranteed great taste. the upside- i'm just getting started. boost® high protein. be up for life™. look for savings on boost® in your sunday paper. like... a business borrowing solution to help get a little more space with a lot less mom. or home insight, to search for a new house within your budget.

because, they really need their space. pnc - make today the day.

my time is thin, but so is my lawn. now there's scotts thick'r lawn 3-in-1 solution. with a soil improver! seed! and fertilizer to feed! now yard time is our time. this is a scotts yard. openturning 50 opens theuard. door to a lot of new things... like now your doctor may be talking to you about screening for colon cancer.

luckily there's me, cologuard. the noninvasive test you use at home. it all starts when your doctor orders me. then it's as easy as get, go, gone. you get me when i'm delivered... right to your front door and in the privacy of your own home. there's no prep or special diet needed. you just go to the bathroom, to collect your sample. after that, i'm gone, shipped to the lab for dna testing that finds colon cancer and precancer. cologuard is not right for everyone. it is not for high risk individuals, including those with a history of colon cancer or precancer. ibd, certain hereditary cancer syndromes, or a family history of colon cancer. maybe i'll be at your door soon! ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. covered by medicare and most major insurers.

there's a call for impeachment today not from a democratic house freshman, but from a lifelong republican. writing in the atlantic, if you actively work within a political party there is some expectation that you will follow orders. even when you disagree. there's a point, though, at which that expectation turns from a mix of loyalty into something more sinister. the mueller report was that tipping point for me and it should be for republican and independent voters and for republicans in congress. joining me now is j. w. vered.

i know this must have been a hard decision point for you, for many republicans and independents, your reaction to the mueller report, why now? what was it in the report that struck you as being very different from the way it was described by the attorney general and certainly by the president. >> well, it was about a series of 12 counts of obstruction of justice, it was the tone in former director mueller's report that made it very clear to me that this was essentially a referral to the house to begin impeachment proceedings. and i don't think we need to fear the "i" word here. impeachment is the constitution's version of a grand jury. and a grand jury is nothing but a check on the prosecutor, essentially a gut check on the prosecutor. is there enough here to start a hearing? it certainly is with me with 12 potential counts of obstruction

of justice about an investigation that touches on potential treason by the president or potentially by other people in his orbit or connected to russia. >> what do you do if you can't get the underlying material distributed only being shown, according to the white house and the justice department, only to be shown just to selected leaders and not to be discussed even among their colleagues. how do you have an impeachment hearing in the house if you can't get the evidence from mueller? >> well, remember, one of the things the house can imimpeach officers for is failure to respond to appropriate subpoenas. and the congress can impeach inferior officers of the president as well. once this process starts, i think a lot more people will be willing to walk. i think the congress will get more information than even what is contained in the mueller report which is quite substantial. and so i think that public airing just like with the nixon

hearings will i think develop a whole lot more in terms of witness cooperation and just the development of diligence and underlying facts to get to the truth. >> what do you think of the stone walling right from the white house, the president saying the mueller report was done, it's over, it's finished, i'm not going to comply, they won't turn over the tax returns, they won't go -- respond to any of these subpoenas? >> frankly, this is where aisle disagree with many democrats, i've seen that before with the obama administration. i wrote the subpoena authority that maxine waters is now using to subpoena financial records, the unilateral authority for that chairman. but for the former chairman. he needed unilateral authority to subpoena the federal reserve about insider trading. i'm familiar with the subpoena that maxine waters has. and she's well within her rights to ask for that. one of the counts in the

impeachment that was coming for nixon was failure to comply with lawful congressional subpoenas. >> a former trump transition officer, thank you very much for being with us. thanks for your insights. and we'll be right back. applebee's bigger, bolder grill combos. now that's eatin good in the neighborhood.

hey allergy muddlers...

achoo! ...do your sneezes turn heads? try zyrtec... ...it starts working hard at hour one... and works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. zyrtec muddle no more. title x for affordable natbirth control

and reproductive health care. the trump administration just issued a nationwide gag rule. this would dismantle the title x ("ten") program. it means that physicians cannot tell a patient about their reproductive health choices. we have to be able to use our medical knowledge to give our patients the information that they need. the number one rule is do no harm, and this is harm. we must act now. learn more. text titlex to 22422 thanks for being with us. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." remember, follow the show online at mitchell reports and here is ali velshi and stephanie ruhle for "velshi & ruhle." >> great to have you here again,

andrea. i'm ali velshi. >> and i'm stephanie ruhle. it is wednesday, april 24th, let's get smarter. executive power play, president trump tells "the washington post" in the wake of the mueller investigation, it is now unnecessary for his staff to comply with congress. >> the subpoena is ridiculous. we have been -- i have been the most transparent president and administration in the history of our country by far. >> is executive privilege being considered here in the white house? >> that's up to the attorneys. >> i fight every subpoena they issue for him, for a witness, if i was representing a witness, i would fight it. >> why? >> because they're illegitimate. they're prejudiced, biassed. >> and despite the report's top-line conclusion that russia did meddle in the election, team trump insists the investigation, that is the real interfer