of done-ness. so let's get after it. ♪ everything is all right what would you like the power to do?® ♪ all right the conversation is going to go on and on and on but my show is over. my thanks to karine, eddie, john. mtp daily starts right now with steve kornacki in for chuck. >> if it's wednesday, defy, defy, defy. good evening, i'm steve kornacki in new york in for chuck todd. welcome to "meet the press daily." we begin with big news tonight. the president telling reporters at the white house that in the wake of the mueller report, he intends to defy every subpoena from democrats.

>> we're fighting all the subpoenas. look, these aren't like impartial people. the democrats are trying to win 2020. they're not going to win with the people that i see. and they're not going to win against me. the only way they can maybe luck out, and i don't think that's going to happen, it might make it even the opposite, that's what a lot of people are saying. the only way they can luck out is by constantly going after me on nonsense. >> the president told "the washington post" that he is opposed to having current and former aides testify before congress. "the post" also reported the white house is planning to fight a subpoena to have the former white house counsel, don mcgahn, testify before the judiciary committee. i'm going to speak with the committee's vice chair in just a moment. the white house has also instructed a former official not to comply with the house oversight committee investigation. the justice department has told congress it will not agree to

its demands to have a top official appear for a deposition. and the treasury department has now missed a congressional deadline that had been set for yesterday to hand over the president's tax returns. the white house will officially fight these requests on legal grounds, but the president made clear that political reasons are on his mind, arguing that after the mueller probe is over, congress should move on. >> it was the most thorough investigation probably in the history of our country. i think i read where they interviewed 500 people. i say it's enough. get pack to infrastructure, get back to cutting taxes, get back to lowering drug prices. that's what -- really that's what we should be doing. >> the bottom line here, by resisting subpoenas and defying congressional commands, the president seems to be trying to run the clock on efforts by congressional democrats to follow up on the mueller report. joining me now, jonathan lemire.

he wrote about the president's post-mueller strategy today and called it "just say no." elise jordan worked in the bush white house and is also an msnbc political analyst. maria teresa kumar, also an msnbc contributor. we are going to run into some constitutional questions here it certainly sounds like. and so we have with us robert sah, a constitutional law expert and a professor at american university. thank you all for being with us. john, let me just start with you. we hear about don mcgahn, former white house counsel. congress wants to hear from him, potentially folks, different folks at different levels in the administration, now former administration officials. what is the plan here from the white house? just everyone, fight them all, fight every single one of them, or is there anything they're open to? >> the president voiced today that they're going to fight. they're not willing to give an inch on any of these.

there's nothing they can do legally to fight the subpoena to have mcgahn appear but they can try to use executive privilege to suggest that that testimony would be damaging to personal conversations and so he can go but won't have to say anything. but it's more than just that. you just hit it. they're fighting on tax returns. they're fighting on security clearances. they're fighting on the trump organization and congress' attempt to learn more about the president's financial history with his business. they're taking their cues from the second half of the mueller probe. let's recall, when the mueller investigation first started, the white house strategy was to cooperate. lawyers cobb and dowd suggested if we give them what they want, in terms of witnesses and documents, we'll get this over quickly and we can move on. when giuliani and others came in about a year into the probe, there was a dramatic shift in tactics. it was to not only publicly attack the public counsel and try to undermine his credibility and, therefore, his findings, but also to stonewall. that's what they're doing now. the president, as we report tonight, is telling people

around him, including in the oval office today, that he is not willing to give the democrats anything. he thinks that more or less you had your shot with the mueller probe. anything further is political partisan overreach and we're going to fight it. >> robert, with that in mind, let's play this out here. if the white house takes that position, any subpoena for anyone and that includes mcgahn, defy it and say okay, they're not going. congress could then say we're going to hold you in contempt. they are telling us there has been no one in modern time who has been convicted by a court when it comes to contempt. it is up to the d.o.j. to prosecute you. >> it is sort of a hard line positioning, they're not going

comply with any subpoena, but it is not really a good legal argument, right? it is not a legal argument that onnest judged wis will accept. so they will have to come up with a legal argument to really justify their refusal to comply. now the executive privilege is one they will comply. it might bite them in the back now. they allowed mcgahn to go to mueller's investigators and to testify willingly. no it will be tough to say that

he is covered. for instance, the efforts to subpoena documents from a third party. >> are there different levels of this potentially where it is more likely that they would have kuk access getting mcgahn to appear. >> yay, i think various members will have to think hard about where to put their resources. some of these are more likely to bear fruit, others will end up being the kind of thing where it might take a matter of years. if you thinkback to the last time there was a fight over subpoena, ericholder was held in contempt of course for failure to comply, but it took a matter of years, something like 3.5 years later, the executive

privilege issue finally resolved. so i think you're right that the overall strategy is to run out the clock, but that also has it's costs. >> so that is a risk there politically for the white house for republicans potentially if they back the white house on this how does it look to the public? is there damage from that, but the question here is potentially as roberts is saying, this could run the clock substantially, into 2020, we could put some bolling polling up on the screen, but same days with basically, monmouth comes out asking a

variation of the same question but a very big difference. are democrats ready for the next six months or more. >> first, now he is a private citizen, he can go before congress. if i was the democrats i would focus on him versus mckale. but for the democrats, they don't want the both to run out the clock. it means they would have to secure the 2020 election during congress to they can congress the investigations. what democrats want to cois chew gum, continue the investigations, and pass legislation. from the very againing they were talking act the issues that americans care about. they looked at modernization of our election system. they talked about the importance of equal pay and equality.

>> does that get lost? >> they're not doubling down on that narrative, but they need to continue this and the investigation. you can see they will conduct by by law, the oversight hearings, they're going after cabinets, and you have not only overtemperatured your boundaries, but you will continue to see hearings. >> at least politically from trump's standpoint we saw in 2018, trump and folks around him wanted democrats to embrace impeachment hoping that would stir up problems. right now leaders are not pushing toward impeachment, but trump is sort of taking mosture

today to set up months of high profile confrontation with democrats in congress. does he see himself as being the focus -- >> i found it interesting that donald trump said he wants to go back to infrastructure. he is trying to talk issues, and not even talk the witch hundred dollar narrative as much because he wants to make it look like democrats are keeping him from getting things done. that is something i heard from democratic voters in the run up is that they were concerned that the mueller investigation welcome russia, it could overcome any policy gains. so they have to be very careful to navigate that fine line.

>> if you think back there is two fazes to this mueller faze. you had the release of the summary, and in that intermediate period i heard a lot of democrats start to speak up atombing i think that the political debate was going to move along. this came up zero times, it's better than we put it behind us. does that same instinct still apply. >> they could demonize the process but celebrate the results. and basically they're saying look, you had your shot, it didn't work, let move on. to your point, and trying to suggest that maybe we should at least a token nod to bipartisan.

the democrats are in a bind. they have tried to steer the party away, but they have grown he said it might be an issue. we saw senator warn and harris sights that maybe it is the president himself is skiddish. we know he had a couple reports that were like you're not going to impeach me, right? that is something they want to win on. they would rather do that right, they don't want the latter, but

they feel like they're not doing the job they were worn in to do you saw important drop and it coincided. i want to see if that goes surging back up in the release of this report, and what effect that has republicans were forced by their base, a lot didn't want to do it, they felt their base was demanding it and they had to long in, this came up as well. mcgahn, if -- and i don't know, but if he had an instinct that hey, i want to be responsive to a subpoena, i want to appear and testify and he got advice from

the white house, what is his position for a white house like that. >> i would be shocked. even if he privately wanted to have his piece, but my guess is that he would let the process playout and if a court ruled that what he told the investigators was no longer covered by executive privilege, i'm sure he would comply at that point. but there is really interesting questions too. here you got, i think, a real desire on the part of many people for a form of accou accountability. i think there might be a third way, but people sense that it is ramping up and that could get some compliance on these

subpoenas. >> thank you for joining us, we will be back, and coming up as that subpoena war heats up before the white house and congress, just how far are democrats willing to take their fight? we're going to talk to a senior member of the house judiciary committee. that is next. with just a day to go now until joe biden jumps into the race, 2020 can gaits are meeting in texas. could it be a breakthrough moment for one of them? be a brh moment for one of them so, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country.

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caught. who knows what will happen from now on, but i hope it is very strong. >> welcome back. president trump is making it very clear that he plans to fight house democrats investigating his campaign and administration. my next guest can help us answer some questions. a democrat from pennsylvania and vice chair of the judiciary committee. congresswoman, thank you for taking a few minutes. let me ask you if the white house does what president trump is suggesting it does in fighting every suspect sent it's way, what do you do then. >> if he is going to do that he is precipitating a constitutional priesz. we have seen the bhous and the mu -- white house and the mueller report as i did tailed how they have fought the mueller investigation every step of the way. >> what would your response be.

is it something you would do in the court of public opinion. is it through contempt? a civil process, what would you do. >> there are subpoenas out for the mueller report, and we intend to support the subpoenas. >> if you were to put the subpoena out, and you don't hear back, and credit me if i'm wrong, and you don't hear back and you decide okay, we're going to hold you in contempt of congress. it comes down to the justice department, right? >> the problem is that the white house is now stonewalling multiple investigations. some of those subpoenas are not addressed to the white house at all. mr. mcgahn is now a private citizen. they have already waved that

privilege, so the subpoena should stand. >> do you do that through a contempt citation. what is the strategy, then? you say it sure, how do you make sure it does. >> it depends on who it is addressed to and how the challenge is made. right now -- >> right, let's take mcgahn what then. >> i think the question becomes where does the challenge come from then the white house has to come in and exert executive privilege, they have to go to court to make that claim. they waived executive privilege, they told mr. mcgahn they could talk.

th how much time does that add before it ends in a court battle? >> well, that is where it becomes the president is trying to withhold service that congress is legislately entitled to. constitutionally entitled to. so does that lead to further charges of obstruction of justice. >> we're sitting here april 2019 welcome how much time would this take? >> it would be on an expedited track. it is pretty hard to speculate i think. it doesn't run the courts just like the white house runs congress. >> what is your appetite and the appetite on your committee, and the appetite of your fellow democrats in congress to continue fighting this. in 2020 there would be someone to make the case that hey,

you're making this is a centerpiece issue. what is the appetite for keeping a person in the center of the political -- >> i think the appetite is to continue to do the work that we have been doing in the last 115 days to do the work that brought us to congress, to do things such as pass good government reform. to pass the paycheck fairness act. to pass the first gun safety legislation passed in decades. so we're going to keep doing that work. if the president is going to not cooperate with legitimate congressional requests, we'll have to deal with that, too. but we're not going to give up doing the work that we have to do in congress. but one part of our job is to protect and defend the constitution and act as an equal branch of government. >> we have been asking this week about impeachment.

where do you stand? are you right now in favor of beginning a proceeding why? is that something you want to hold out for the future? or is that something you don't think should be on the table? >> we're not there yet, congress has a lot of work to do. we don't even have the fuel muller report and a lot of that report will bear on what we do next. the mueller report really gave us a roadmap, anyone knows that congress has work to do both with respect to looking at the under lying evidence for obstruction of justice, but that part of the report leads like a charging document. the president did not kpoop rate with his questions. the president refused to answer any questions regards obstruction of justice and gave unsatisfactory answers about whether or not his campaign cooperated with russia. >> okay, thank you for taking a

few minutes. >> thank you. >> all right, and up next we know there was a blue wave last year for the democrats, and we now have new information, new numbers, on who actually voted and why that wave took shape. interesting new da da. e took she interesting new da da. (alarm beeping) welcome to our busy world. where we all want more energy. but with less carbon footprint. that's why, at bp, we're working to make energy

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all right, welcome back, there is the election music. there is a reason we're playing the election music right now in april of 2019. we have new information, new numbers about the 2018 midterms and maybe what we're looking at ahead coming in 2020. 2018, the big story there, democrats got that 40 seat gain. won back control of the house. a little different story on the senate side, but on the house side there was a blue wave last year. we know that. the question we have been asking is what powered that waef. we have some clues but now we have comprehensive deep data from the census bureau, and it gives us a look at who voted and why the democrats did so well. a couple things first of all,

just overall turn out, think back to the last midterm, that was a big midterm for republicans. the overall turnout was 42%. the last was 53%. this was staggeringly turnout. turn out up up everywhere. every group turned out in bigger numbers than we normally see, but some turned out, the surge was just massive. look at age, we talk all of the time, trump, the republican party in general. 66 turns out in 18, 69% in 14. a gain there. work back on the age like.

30 to 44, a a 13 point jump, the younger group of voters the highest leap, nearly doubling from 20% in 2014 up to 36%. we have been talking for a long time boy if democrats could get the folks out to the polls they could reap in 2018. that makes a big difference for democrats. another educational level. trump powered by noncollege white voters. also a backlash against trump in the suburbs. college educated voters, post grad, start working your way up here, less than a high school diploma, there was an increase there of five points, but it gets bigger as you work your way up. high school an eight point increase. some college a 13 point jump, bachelor's degree, 13 point

jump, advanced degree, 12%, when you adequate into the democratic friendly demographics that where you see the increase. the trump friendly demographics are increasing but not as big. the folks that democrats have been targeting are the ones clearly most activated, the most energized, and turned out to deliver the house in a massive high turnout for midterm elections. the question for 2020 is can democrats get the same folks out with that much energy or even more of them, and can that trump base, not as activated or energiz energized, will it return? up next, eight presidentialfuls sequen sequen

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and some of the democrats trying to energize voters and those more key among them women of color, today eight candidates answered questions at the he is the people forum in houston. it is focused on issues particularly important to women of color. here is what some of the candidates had to say. i would stake my reputation on what i have going forward. >> i have a track record of getting things done for vulnerable communities. >> black women are an integral part of our administration and our campaign. >> we have a room full of people here who weren't given anything. we have a room full of people

here who had to fight for what they believe in. >> joining me now two road warriors that have been at the he is the people summit all day. garrett haake and allie vitalli. a forum focused on women of color, there is a candidate, kamala harris, who is a woman of color, what was her response today? >> before the event even started i was asking people who they were excited to hear from and the two names i kept hearing was kamala harris and elizabeth war whe warren. i think that while harris is the only black woman in the race there is a lot of focus on her,

but i think that is not the only consideration. the forum teaches something they candidates have said all along if is not just one issue, it's not just reproductive rights, but foreign policy, economics, health care, and that is what we heard today for voters that want to hear more about this. >> if you look back at 2016, the democratic primaries, if you look at the compilation of all of the polling, a look at the democratic elector rate you can see 15% of all of the voters in 2016 were black women. 9% black men, 4% -- 5%, excuse me were hispanic women. what were the most salient

issu issues in terms of generating conversation. >> e liz warren was the last to speak and he is was talking about maternal mortality and kitchen table issues. to get in the door here it was assumed you would be pro choice. it wasn't just about abortion rights, but family issues, family economic issues, and that is elizabeth warren's bread and butter. he she said multiple times "i have a plan for that." harris was very well received

here as well. he she suffers from very high expectations. there is an expectation, a dire to see her rise to the highest level here. if he is doesn't nail everything 100% he is slishe slips a littlr frame of mind. warren comes in, she is familiar as a senator, and she tells stories about growing up in texas and connects in a different way. >> it is interesting just strategically looking at warren, he she has not been at the front of the pack. you start to look in these national poles. he is has n she has not been poling well, especially with afric african-americans early, but she is reaching out to particularly

plaque vo black voters in this race. >> yes, you look at the wealth gap and income inequality, but also racial inequality. i think that in gaggles, in the campaign trail, we saw her really lean into this idea of "i have a plan." and i think that is something that we have seen. we're asking why he she is not translating more to the poles, but they're a campaign that is really organizing heavily in places like iowa, trying to lay the ground work so that maybe the polls are not popping right now, but i think they're playing the long game. >> joe biden apparently

getting in the race tomorrow. any consensus there? >> no one in the crowd waiting for joe biden. do you retreat to the safety of a white male candidate? the selectability paradox. a lot of the conversations that i was in here, they want to vote for their hearts, vote for a woman of color if they can, but they look around and say do we need a white guy on the ticket to make it feel safer to the rest of the country. that's the context in which joe biden's name came up. his name was not coming off of the lips of anyone else here beyond that today. >> thank you both for being with us and this saturday reverend al sharpton will sit down with the leading contenders to talk about

inequality in america. not just black and white. up next, democrats set their sights on texas for a long time if first they might have a primary on their hands. ly he i will go over to the boards to check it out. o check it out (speaking in foreign language) i'm sorry i don't understand... ♪ help! i need somebody ♪ help! not just anybody ♪ help! you know i need someone

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ted cruise down in texas and democrats are setting their sights on the state's other seats in 2020. they're trying to figure out who they will run against john cornan. so the latest news here, and a new challenger, potentially for john cornan. but hegar the new candidate. this was a very good performance for someone in this district. they better than determine grmo

formally do. . the question is will he is receive a channeler on the democratic side and will that challenger be kwau keen castro. he looks like he may be moized to enter this race as well. and of course the backdrop for all of this is in the last midterm election. beto beto o'rourke was close. there was a special election in 1993 when k bailey hutchinson was involved there. you have 11 races here where the republicans have one senate seat since 1998. that is when lloyd benson, the democratic that ran for vp, they

were blown out in caucus. that is the last democratic senate victory. let's see what 2020 brings, let's see what happens in the primary, we'll be back with another interparty fight to tell you about right after this. to l you about right after this 300 miles an hour, that's where i feel normal. having an annuity tells me my retirement is protected. learn more at retire your risk dot org. paper prepares us please have a seat. it inspires discussions... thank you very much for joining us today. if you'll all turn to page 1, we can get started.

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what is that? uh mine, why? it's just that it's... lavender. yes it is, it's for men but i like the smell of it laughs ♪ welcome back. time now for the lid. here's a piece of news. pe pete, he went after bernie sanders on the question of electability. he said people were refreshed by the novelty of that boldness. he said that i have a hard time seeing the coalition ultimately coming together there to win the election in 2020. it is an interesting strategic

decision. he sees some value in the democratic race of going after sanders. >> and i think that he recognizes that sanders, one of the reason he was able to come to prominence was he was able to galvanize young vote enters into his camp. that's exactly pete's wheel house. i have the midwest but i need these voters. i'm the generation that will be voting for me the first time. but i think pete did a misstep today. they were talking about whether or not there should be voting eligibility for folks in prison. he said no. that is going to be something that he will have to figure out, how he talks to communities of color where they know that is something very personal. and he will have to start unpacking those issues. that's where bernie sanders, if you recall, actually fell into trouble, too. he was talking about the issues of race in this country and who has accessibility to the voting booth. >> one of the issues, sanders is

saying, i'm looking early on at the coalition it has the hallmark characteristics. it skews white, liberal, he has some work to do to show he has broader appeal whether he can entice them. many of them went secretary clinton. you're right. mayor pete is such an unknown. and a lot of voters are getting to know him. he is the hot thing at the moment. he is receiving incredible media attention. has for the most part said the right things. made a few odd comments about his musical taste.

ever last? you're right. this is one of the first times, the question about voting for felons tonight. one of the first times he's facing scrutiny now. and this is the first time he has turned an attack on somebody else. a mild attack, to be sure, about bernie sanders. but it is another step into the big leagues of his race. >> and i think it is a question, as we get ready. we'll see if it actually happens. but joe biden gets in the race. biden will be one, sanders will be two. how biden hans bernie sanders. is he looking at him saying, i'm confident. i don't want to alienate focus in the sanders camp or is he separating himself? >> i'm curious to see if joe biden will try to skew more progressive. is he going to try to participate in the game of outliberaling other candidates within the democratic primary?

or is he still going for the obama voters, the more moderate democrats, while still basing on his electability. once he is really in the spotlight, how he'll respond. >> there was a poll that came out. pick a label. the term clinton democrat. it was like 5%. but obama democrat, the number one choice. >> he was the original coalition. he brought in, he unified the country in a different way where he saw republicans and independents voting for him while actually bringing in a resurgence of young people. you spoke about this idea of young voters and how they were participating. one out of six voters this past mid-term were young voters. we've never seen that. i've been doing this 15 years. the democrats have to make sure that's not an a no, ma'amly. the last time we saw a surge p.m. almost at that level was

obama is pete the one? kamala harris? they want some skid to make it mean something. >> the question of electability. it is there with biden even if he doesn't say anything. i think that is the underlying energy for his campaign. look at the 2016 map. i can win pennsylvania. i can win michigan. >> he will face questions about the lack of obama officials endorsing. eventually -- >> how about obama himself? >> at the end of the day, the president himself. that's exactly right. >> obama can say, look, there are 28,000 candidates here. i'm going to let democrats sort this out. but will he say something that makes it cheer, i like joe. >> he can stay out for a while. an elder statesman of the party. he needs to do something to encourage biden.

that hasn't happened yet. biden can make a case on the map. >> we have to go. i would love to keep talking about it. thank you all and we'll be right back. thank you all and we'll be right back ♪ ♪ ♪

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tried impeachment. plus, chuck's interviewed with harry reid and john boehner. you can download it now or wherever you get your podcast. we'll be back tomorrow with more "meet the press" daily. good evening to you, ari. thank you. we're covering new developments in the capitol hill showdown. president trump claiming he refuses to comply with subpoenas. democrats say they have a plan to deal with it. and later, bill barr has not told the whole truth about mueller's findings. why that matters going forward and what can be done about it. also, eric swalwell making his first appearance on "the beat" as a presidential candidate. that's later in the show. we have a hot. we begin with the president of the united states announcing his opposition to lawful subpoenas from congress. >> we're fighting all the subpoenas. these aren't impartial people. the democrats are trying to win 2020. the only