along with joe, willie and me week have mike barnicle, steve rattner and white house correspondent for pbs newshour, yamiche alcidor joins us. and joe bide i don't know is set to enter the 2020 race this morning. he's back and he's officially in today, joe. >> he is. first of all, it so funny talking about donald trump talking about a system rigged against him when he appointed

roy cohn to rig the system for him. he wins with courtroom politics by the rigging of the system itself. nobody would ever accuse robert mueller of rigging the system unless they were just roy cohn-type hacks and he has one as his a.g. turning the attention to joe biden now, listen, we're always very blunt on the show so let's be blunt. we both personally like joe biden very much. i was on the phone yesterday talking to democratic leaders all day. they will not say it on the air. i did not talk to one of them excited about joe biden running. in fact, they're all very, very concerned that he wasn't up to it, they were very concerned that he was going to go out and bumble around for two months and

then he was going to put the democrats in an even worse position. so he has announced it now, the web site is live. joe biden is running for president and now would be a wonderful time, willie, for us to remind ourselves and our viewers that everybody was saying about the same thing about donald trump this time four years ago. speaking of those two, there is a new poll out that shows joe biden handily defeating donald trump. >> and that is the key right there for democrats. through all the litmus test issues that have been put out there and candidates have had to answer about for progressive ideas, the core number one response you get when you polled democrats, what's the most important interest rate in a preside president, let say what the

campaign looks like over the next few weeks and months, joe biden may be the one who can defeat donald trump. he will reach back to nostalgic and try to take some of that back in the democrats' eyes. i would point out that donald trump is only a couple of years young are than joe biden at this point. the third run for president for joe biden, he ran in 1988 and 2008 and, joe, as he makes his announcement today, i think we can draw a straight line to a conversation you, me and mika had with him in a bar in philadelphia during which who said on tv "the clinton campaign is not talking to my people." by that whe meant januarscranto

pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, that's where he believes he can turn the tide, get those voters back and win the presidency. we'll just see how he performs over the next few weeks and month. i hear all the same concerns you hear but we'll give him a chance and see what he can do. >> we've got the video of the announcement. we talk, joe, about the concerns that we might have but i don't think the time has ever been right for joe biden and now might be the time. i think we'll find out if he's up for it when he steps out into the light and he makes his first, second and they're statement. it touching on a "washington post" piece you wrote about you don't know until they get out there and they open their mouth and they get on to the stage and they say what they feel. i do believe he might be up for it. i spoke to him a few weeks ago

and he sounded up for it. so we'll see. i understand the concerns. i do think the goodness that who brings to the table, the experience, the network of supporters that he has makes him formidable this time around. >> go ahead, go ahead with the announcement. >> talkke a look. >> charlottesville, virginia is home to one of the greatest documents in history, "we hold these truths to be self-evident that all money are created eequal, endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. we've heard it so often, it almost a cliche but it's who we are. we have never before walked away from them. charlottesville is also home to a defining moment for this nation in the last few years. it was there on august of 2017

we saw klansmen and white supremacists and neonazis come out in the open, their crazed faces illuminated by tortures, veins bulging, chanting the same anti-semitic bile heard across europe in the 30s. they were met by a courageous group of americans and a violent clash ensued and a brave young woman lost her life. and that's when we heard the words of the president of the united states that stunned the world and shocked the conscience of this nation. he said there were, quote, some very fine people on both sides. very fine people on both sides? are those words the president of the united states a signed a moral equivalence between those

spreading hate and to those standing against it. at that moment i knew the threat to this nation was unlike any i'd seen in my lifetime. i wrote at the time that we're in the battle for the soul of this nation. well, that's even more true today. that's even more true today. we are in the battle for the soul of this nation. i believe the nation look back as an aberration in time and if we give him another four years, it will change this nation. everything that has made america america is at stake. that's why i'm announcing my candidacy for president of the united states. folks, america is an idea, an idea stronger than any armer,

bigger than any ocean, more powerful than any dictator or tyrant. it guarantees that everybody is treated with dignity and gives hate no safe harbor and instills the belief that no matter where you start in life, there's nothing you can't achieve if you work at it. that's what we believe. and above all else, that's what's at stake in this election. we can't forget what happened in charlottesville. even more important, we have to remember who we are. this is america. >> all right. so joe biden is officially in the presidential race. he is the 20th democratic candidate to join the field. joe, i liked it. what did you think? >> it was done very well. he delivered it very well. we talked about political

athletes there. i thought also something again, he's such a nice, likable guy, at least for all the people i know that know joe biden and i know how we feel about him, that i smiled without thinking i was going to and he said "that's why i'm running for president of the united states." it was like an old friend running. mike, he's done it before and he hasn't fared very well when he's running for president. that's one of the things that some of the people in the obama administration expressing concern have said in the past but i will say this about politics, show me mike, i'm talking to mike, thank you. i will say this about talking politics, it's a funny thing that actually what people expect from you, your expectations, the expectations game is almost as important as anything and i'm not so sure that it's not bad

for joe biden front-runner, presumed nominee, that so many people are doubting him right now. first of all, it puts even more fire in the belly for him to prove them wrong. secondly, it lowers the massive expectations a little bit. so he goes out and does a pretty good job and people go, wait, maybe we were wrong. >> you know, joe, you could not be more correct on that. i think a lot of people when they think of joe biden because of everything that's been said negatively on the negative side of the ledger for the first four, five months, oh, he was awful in 2008 and collapsed in 2008 and he's a gaffe master and says some ridiculously stupid things at type, which we all do and now he's hopping back into the ring after a couple of years retirement. if he gets out there and he performs the way you just saw him perform, which i think he

can, think pi people are going to say wait a minute now, thoo th guy likes pretty good to me. that's where he's going in this campaign and we're going to find out very quickly, i think, within the next two or three months, whether his effort has -- can be successful. i don't think it going to be a long, drawn-out affair. we're going to see how he performs. and whether or not the 2018/'19 version of joe biden is up for the task. >> you look, willie, 1987, then again in 2007 and i mean, it's a long time. >> yeah. >> 30, 40 -- kp. >> ish, yes. >> i don't know.

come on. math. i saw on veep that muslims created math. so con p come on, really. have you seen veep this year, by the way? oh my lord, it is wonderful. anyway, if you haven't seen "veep." joe's been running for a very long time butch maybe for people that ran for the first time six or seven years ago, there is a strange new world, 2019. we're moving at the speed of sound politically and who knows, maybe that benefits joe biden, maybe it doesn't, maybe something that you said in 1987 that hung out there for dethree weeks and destroyed a campaign. maybe it's gone at the end of the day after a donald trump insult. >> and he's talked about those

things. but i think what he can't do is he can't go through and apologize for of step of his political life. we've soon young are candidates doing in 1978 i wish i voted differently than i did and if i had to do it today, at the amtrak station. i understand you have some world word from president obama this morning. >> that's right. a couple weeks ago when we asked joe biden about whether the party had moved too far to the left, he described what will the former president do? obviously a very important figure in the party.

an obama spokesperson is weighing in immediately with this statement -- president obama what as lon he relied on the vice president's knowledge, insight and the two forged a special bond over the last then years and remain close today. it's important to note that's not a statement that obama has offered for any other candidate entering the ways the president, the former president wants to and this will be the most south-over endorsement. make, what happens here now for joe biden? the announcement is out. what are his next steps in the campaign? >> so the biden campaign tells me and we can now say that the

biden campaign that, video today interestingly starting with those words, charlottesville, virginia, that's the first pill pillar. the second we'll see on monday. his first public going to be an and they will hool travel to all four el states, building up, talking to vetters and building to a major public rally sometime next month that will talk about joe biden is not necessarily saying i'm a candidate who is going to appeal but try to appeal to the most aggressive elements in this base. this is that's the signal they're trying to send with this roll-out. >> and mike, thanks so much. so, joe, again, former president

blaum saying of his vice president one of the bernie sanders decisions i've ef made he then sued his best he did get a really good vanity fair cover out of it he can always keep in his living room. but i want to go back to the apologies. this is nor thing i heard from democratic leaders all day yesterday, the fear that joe biden is going to apologize for everything he's donepublic service and even there was a track epidemic three, hour years

before that. it ripped apart black communities. it ripped apart america. yeah, i voted for the crime bill. i wantf who will say blilkly i was opposed to the crime bill. they want to see biden be defiant and say you weren't there, you don't know the champion ng was making at the time. yes, we took a chance and maybe it turned out wrong but at least we tried. i heard that thing i'm and time given. >> what do you think? >> first of all, i will agree with you 100%, it really sad this is veep's last season. it been really great. i did not know that oh, my god.

>> it brightens up my week. on the bide i don't know front a couple of things. on the apology thing, he did try sort of a a an imimage pi so that strategy doesn't really work. i think there are three things to watch about biden as this goes forward. one is can he handle himself, quite frankly. and it see the have said it didn't obvious will the second thing to watch carefully is going to be the money because the money game has changed dramatically. it is now very much an online

game. he's never done online fund race so i think money's going to be an interesting barometer, maybe more interesting than pose for a while. and the third question to me is where does he position himself? you've got this spectrum to people like bernie do you think about a wealth tax? at some point people are going to try to pin him down on these issues and he's going to have to decide where in this con sellations of democrats.

he can't play to the blue check marks. he needs to be himself. he needs to railroad why people in scranton, pennsylvania love him, because at the end of this election, we're going to be looking at the state of pennsylvania. as the decider. you know, democrats are going to more likely than not win which. those aren't going to donald trump. if tim russert were here and was projecting, he would say 2020 is going to come do you to pennsylvania, pennsylvania, pennsylvania, a and that is a

chasing him around the campaign trail trying to get him off h hisamy, and then mike real quick. first of all, i don't know if he needs to be a different guy because it is a very different time we're does he fit in thispersonally i would this i think it having interesting that who used charlottesville to be the center of that video. the president has had all of controversial interactions to put it lightly. but for joe joe biden to effect focus in on that moment and

focus be o and that this i don't think woman died and that there were not fine pop at a naz oo rahal oo shows us i'm going call you out for specific behavior you've done. i think it goes without saying that the a. >> think his cam pawns put out a schedule but this he goes back to pennsylvania. so much i this tles' wreck information in f itrum the

campaign is worried about about this great victory he had, a victory that within sfchl -- and obviously they're a little worried about being in pennsylvania. >> that's where the battle will be and i wand to underl-- want underline, highlight telling candidates they need to ignore what the blue check marks said, what the manhattan leet say, if this class it is a lot of people

you're not hearing from now, that won't be heard until the south carolina primary that, determine who the (it black working class americans. it is actually the type of americans that joe biden has always been able to appeal to. good news for him. >> well, we'll be watching this. time now to get to other news this morning. thofrts now say it was 9 union side bombers mostly from educated, middle-class back groupds in sri lanka on union authorities are vgting l the is am f.

and sri lankan police are still looking for any. trump reignited the long-since debunked claim in a tweet yesterday, prompting a spoke prn for the shutterly ig and the summit between russian president vladimir putin and north korea's kim jong un got under way overnight. the two leaders met for the first time early this morning. they shook hands and posed for

photos for the? and joining us, keir simmons. what more can you tem us about the summit? >> whoever is president in 2020, be it a joe biden i don't know or a president trump or another, two of the most difficult leaders this can face as president right now. it was a diplomacy being opportunity to pivot toward russia after of course president trump p and it was negotiations

lasting an hour naf, much more than the 50 minutes that was expected. you know, mika, when you dig into the mueller report, one of my takeaways is actually how hungry russia is for a better relationship an as asked me to go to america and take his questionsage to perk. >> all right. nbc's keir simmons, thank you very much. and still ahead on "moe that as a imagine storesfchl the people

that were so shocked and stunned by bill clinton's personal behavior and then said oh, wait, personal behavior doesn't matter? and now suddenly they're worried about -- >> wow snp! we'll have that story coming up. we'll have that story coming up. so, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. ♪ the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. ♪ because the future only happens with people who really know how to deliver it.

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by the way, we talked about politics on "morning joe" sometimes. >> yes. >> as you know, we try to stay hip and be where the kids are. let's talk about what art

linkletter would call the popular culture. it's a long way to say my house is excited about two things that are going to happen today or tomorrow. taylor swift, maybe a new album will drop perhaps? my daughter says it may be a combination of 1989 and her first country album. so who knows, that's exciting. but what my house has been freaking out about, what my kids have been talking about, except for joey who never got into the avengers universe, tonight, "avenge "avengers, the end game," a lot of crying going on, a lot of

critics who said they wept openly time and time again. you talked to jeremy rinner, hawk eye, right? >> yes. have you seen some of the projections of what it's going to make this weekend? it's going to be by far the biggest opening in the history of movies. they're talking about pushing a billion dollars. they said it could get up to $900 million in its opening weekend. they are contractually not allowed to talk about anything that's going to happen in the movie. that's a fun interview for an hour, "i can't tell you anything, i can't tell you anything." it's going to make more money than even the "star wars" movies

did. >> in my house we used to look forward to "star wars" in anticipation. we're such "star wars" nerds we all freak out over the last trailer. but i will say this is huge. mika, you may not know it but saturday morning at 8 a.m., jack is looking forward to you sitting next to us as we go see avengers. >> 8 a.m.? >> i'm just joking. i got a ticket for jack, josh and aaliyah. those are the last four. they're running them every 30 minutes, starting at midnight tonight, every 30 minutes through friday, saturday and sunday. i found two tickets all weekend, 8 a.m. saturday morning. but for kate, taylor swift. don't know if you heard.

>> amazing. >> that's why john meacham finally showed up. >> a country music fan. breaking out of a cold medicine coma, thank you for showing up. >> thank you. >> we're going to give you an option. we can either talk about the avengers, t-swift and the hypocrisy of criticizing pete buttigieg for being gay. >> franklin graham has called for presidential candidate pete buttigieg to repent for being gay. >> just shut up, graham. you are a disgrace. you are a disgrace for

normalizing donald trump's behavior and for using your position to suggest -- well, john meacham, i will just let you go. here's a man along with so many people in my community, the evangelical community, attacked bill clinton for his personal failings. they are now using these positions, these evangelical leaders, they are now using their positions to gain political power and apologize for donald trump. now suddenly franklin graham's talking about lifestyles and sinning and a guy who has gone through a very difficult personal journey to figure out who he really is, he's criticizing them for that? it's not a lifestyle choice. anybody that's heard pete buttigieg talk knows that.

>> you know what reverend graham is doing here is basically practicing elective self-righteousness and selective script you'ual choices. and one of the problems is these kind of extreme statements given where the country is on these issues, this is no longer a mainstream view and thankfully so. one of points if you're a religious believer, one of the points of god's universe is that it does in fact reveal itself and you are able to change and grow and react to shifting data. reverend graham is disproving that, going the other way. cal thomas warned about this. cal was jerry falwell's p.r.

guy. he wrote the -- tylenol cold and a little bit of coffee and you, too, can do cruise ship humor. >> where was i? >> cal thomas co-authored a book called "blinded by the mite" where he said the religious right has to be careful not to place the pursuit of power ahead of the religious truth. and his fear was the movement was becoming a political interest group, not an embodiment of a group of people who were seeking a larger truth. and they put their truths in the

flakiest of individuals in trump. i'm an unsuccessful christian. i'm not saying this from some sort of secular, media alut because people feel you are simply another interest group pointing fingers as opposed to a church extending a hand. >> it's a grave concern that i've had about the evangelical community, my community over the past three years. and franklin graham is the most unworthy of vessels, again, because if someone had been consistent and criticized bill clinton and then criticized donald trump, unlike franklin graham, for their lifestyle choices, for their sins, then

they would be in a better position if they wanted to talk about people in 2020, they could. and there are millions of christians who look at the scriptures who believe that being gay is a sin. and so that is -- that has been the orthodox christian view for 2,000 years. and if somebody wants to come out and talk about that and if that is their view of the scripture, well, that's certainly their right. we are still america, you still have the prefreedom to worship as you choose and to believe as you choose. yes, you do. i know it's bad news for a lot on faith and what's right and what's wrong. but the thing is, john, in this case you had grang rin frankly graham saying when bill clinton

is president that care ter matters and now with donald trump saying character does even as an ort dobbs church, he's stepping ins that not been center of my and jesus doesn't talk about it. and if jesus doesn't talk about it, i don't obsess over it. >> you know, one more cynical reading of all this o could be that mayor buttigieg at this point might be complemented by this because he's risen to a level that the other side is worried. that's an interesting place to he referred to islam some years

ing a in religious circles there are two ways to look at one's capacity, one's role in speaking to the world, being religious. it's called prophetic religion and priestly religion. to be professed being and one of the things that i think is really complicated here is why prophetic religion has become so intrinsically divisive. >> don't you think it's time we in the media separate franklin gram from religion? when he speaks now, he separates now and you end up in the arena

and you but when the other side is throwing a bunch of stones, what do you do? >> speaking to the hypocrisy, this was a state made many monthsing a by franklin graham talking about president trump's alleged affair with stormy daniels. he said "these things happened many years ago. this thing with stormy daniels and so forth is nobody's business" and twisting himself in a different interview saying "the alleged appear do did i think he should have a little more grace when he talks to -- i

felt in army they used to say we work harder, do more before, you know, before mostit is joos us understood that. and you go through it the test ament time and too many again. jesus talks about how we are all sinners have have fallen short for you, we are all broken people and that's why franklin graham's words are so discordent. but gees of what jesus's own teachings were. look at what geeses said on the ser manned of the mound.

this sort of, again, this is the and t and he is actually supporting a man who has said i in never needed to be forgiven by god. i have never asked good fofr if there is cityof jesus' message and does more violence to jesus a mess paj. >> seven days ago right now was holy thursday. it's called mondy in some traditions because it comes from the latin mami'm telling you

tylenol cold is a really good aide -- >> have ale will more. >> shea's rebellion. >> okay. >> barnicle was there. he said "love within another" as i have loved you. that was the core message, christians around the world had a good memory of that. you have to then say is the religious right embodied by franklin graham at this point in the united states? are they following that mandate or are they wep. >> the chose has been made in jumping into the democratic 2020 fell a include the the disney

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♪ ♪ all right, it is 51 past the hour. joining us, the president on foreign lagss and author of the book "a world in disarray," richard haas. we go round the world with richard haas now quite often because there's a lot to talk about. >> talk about the world in disarray, putin and kim jong un meeting. putin saying eunhas asked him to a meeting. what do you make of it? >> in part because we're not willing to engage in nome al

diplomacy with some compromise, north weak has other option. it really mansion the sanctions won't disappear but they'll weaken. this idea that we're going to able to force them into giving up to them. >> just two things to me, one is that vladimir putin gets up in the morning looking for ways to basically be an outlier, toshot united states you can't have your way in the world and, secondly, it's what a post-america world looks like. the degree of primacy and advantage that we ven joyed since the end of the withhold war, that essentially fading and north korea with nuclear weapons and iran doing what it's doing,

this is not an american-dominated world like it was. >> the administration said they were not going to extend any waivers by the six countries that have them. there does seem to be signs that there are real financial pressures on iran for what's going on here. what's wrong with the policy is with at the moment? >> they say it's not regime change and pressure won't be enough to it's not obvious to me what it is -- what are we trying to accomplish here? are we historying to get ron to stop undermining the region? >> what should we be trying to accomplish? >> i would say to rein in some of their actions whether it's in yemen, syria. >> wouldn't this do that? >> possibly, possibly. it reduces resources available

to them to pursue guns and that might be it. it might simply be keep this in place but we ought to be doing more. it's as if the administration has an anti-iran policy and it doesn't have a middle east policy. >> so terror isn't in sri lanka, it's linked to syria, iraq, isis. there's within person in the united states, the president of the united states, who believes isis has been defeated. the degree of difficulty in defeating an ideology, especially when you seemingly at odds with your own intelligence community. >> it shows to me that this is not a tradition al battle. it just goss on and on and on. there's always going to be young men in particular but also women willing to die for their

misguided and perverted causes here. we got to be honest and be open or steal ourselves in that needs repush back, we build resill yns, we protect ourselves. but we can't sell the eye doo that we would have woken up one day and terrorism would be defeated. we have to be honest with our allies. o who and the president announcing two months before the election he won overwhelmingly. >> what happened? >> what it shows is how fed up people are there with the wars that been going on for years,

how fed up they are with all the politicians and literally the deep culture of corruption. it shows how outsiders in this day and age have a treep tyree medicalous advantage. to be a career politician is not only not an advantage, it's a disadvantage. in virtually every country we're seeing outsiders have an advantage over insiders. there's some opportunity there because also real risk. these are tough jobs to run an economy, to have a serious foreign policy. i'm not making criticism. you don't often get people who are prepared for the job. >> really? >> yeah. >> i thought i'd just put that out there. >> i. in joe biden begins a new campaign today. we'll take a look an at what

exactly he brings to the 20-20 race. and congressman selt moulton joins us life from iowa. "morning joe" is back in just a. a every day, visionaries are creating the future. so, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country.

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. my general view when it comes to my attorney is he's the people's lawyer. eric holder has been nominated. his job is to uphold the constitution, look after the american people and not to be swayed by my day-to-day polit s politics. so ultimately he will be making some calls. but my general belief is when it comes to national security, what we have to focus on is getting things right in the future as opposed to looking at what we got wrong in the past. >> barack obama just days before taking office in 2009. president trump meanwhile pressured his attorney general to both interfeern in the russia probe and prult.

>> i believe history will look back on four years of this president and haul he embraces is an abhorrent period of time. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is thursday, april 25th. with willie joe and me we have historian and autoand joins the conversation orkt ed toward of commentary magazine and an msnbc contributor, noah walt susan

beige, i'll just say that announcement by joe biden, not to sound of klee share offer whaer but in this campaign i can pt. >> i do think the moment could be right for joe biden. >> well, we'll see. we'll see what happens. a lot of skepticismin side the democratic party but, you know, they're a lot of people or than my father and people that had known reagan for a very long time, my dad had just seen him give a speech in 1979 and proclaimed him the next president of the united states. but ronald reagan, nobody believed that man was going to be elected president until the night he was elected president. and so we get it wrong a lot.

the media gets it wrong a lot. as tom brokaw told us after hill hl shocked barack obama in new hampshire, you know, sometimes you might january and yes, sir here he is again running the third time, just like reagan. for reagan the third time was in fact the that ever the f for a hearing he healed in 19 1. he's not going to get elected to anything. he's got to look forward. >> he's got to look forward. of course circumstances given that he's running against 68

other people may force him to try to deal with the credentials with the base. i wonder. . >> he's been in the senate since 19 2. it a generational struggle. prz reagan never really faced my own sense is the vice president will make -- former vice president, will make a

compelling case about the greatness of what -- not just the democratic party but a kind of american party, super party structure has done for the country. i bet it's, to my mind, this is the one to be sure, which is not worth anything, but it oops you have a vivid and fascinating two men borch in the 1940s approaching the third decade. the problem he's going to have is how does he get to that contrast? >> yes. >> the individual i don't a fas

he's going to have make a general election argument in a very divisive primary. and it will be fascinating to see who shows up to give if they want to give him this chance. >> and we went right at. >> woo saw klans men and pretty hu hugh. chanting the same ant oo semitic bile heard kroots you're in the 30s and they were met by a courageous group of americans and a violent clash ensued and a brave young woman lost her life. and that's when we heard the word of the president of the united states that stunned the

world and? it gives hope to the most desperate people on earth. it guarantees that everyone is treated with dignity and gives hate no safe harbor. >> you know, yamiche, those are some powerful states from joe biden, but, you know, it was so compelling to me at least because for myself and for so many other americans, sharr lotsville was perhaps the most frightening 24-hour news cycle in the entire trump presidency. watching those racists, those bigots, those neonazis, those white supremacists in broad daylight proudly march and the

prut f standing side by side, support being him, was for for me at least a low point of the presidency. and i would get for many americans. tell me spch that should have been in some ways a layup for the president. it not hard to say nazis are good people and that we all on heather die icy sea so i think

joe biden made an interesting choice there because there was so much to choose from over the last couple years of this trump presidency but to center that i think really sends a signal to the heart of the krit i think trup is going to find himself on the defense if he's on the debate stage with joe biden. oos that eight years of trump will forever and fundamentally altering the character of this

nation. he's speaking somewhere above poll sand some republicans doesn't want to continue to watch this show for another four years, which is willing you h r hear. when who gets into this primary fight, he will be asked things like do support med kaer at all? do you spoke. >> and if he says no to some of thos things, some will in the progressive movement i s say ufr a dinosaur or question request perhaps every every prn everywhere, your strength is your weakness, right? his strength is he's got

unparalleled experiences and that makes him not a frsh face in his previous two campaigns i disciplined, who wasn't very -- if look at democrats who have been nominated and won the agency, sfp after today's compelling announcement video, that will be the challenge from jooid. >> let's bring in national political reporter meek memoli and some endorsements right off the bat, mike. >> that's right, mikka. not a surprise necessarily, the person who occupies joe bennett's senate seat, chris toons is the first person out of the gate with an endorsement.

he says we are at a crucial moment in our history, we need letters to bring us. so he want the candidates sfchlt and he starts the latest chapter in a very long career. >> announcer: a lifetime of enormous times and devastating

lows, joad' will be later 3 30she's been tacking hospital ini felt la. that if that. >>before the reagan revolution into washington. >> after sitting out the 1984 president dpgs race, bide i don't know saw 1998 as his year. >> i announce my candidacy for president the united states of america. >> contrasting his affirmative action hi lks (.

>> my business is behind this. let's move on. >> he returned to the senate and embraced the role of elder stage statesman and resume. >> are you running for president? >> i'm running for president. you're going to take on hillary clinton, barack obama and all plt his unsigh sensed -- >> men marrying win or women marrying wem are against a

seeminglyin. f condolences are now pouring in for a young man whose future seemed as bright as his father's. >> while i will not be a candidate, i will not be silent. >> but as biden watched from the sidelines, there has been in both parties not enough respect shown. >> oh, absolutely. >> -- to ordinary people. >> the failures to he'd his warnings -- >> that is why independent going to be living in pennsylvania, msh stan high --? take it back! >> now, i know in the last hour we were talking about the mass. joe biden first ran for public office, new castle county delaware in 19730, 50 years ago.

we all know he was bornscranton. his scranton routes are critical to this story. bobi bobies. >> thank you so much. i greatly appreciate it. and what look back off joe. >> sfmtd that democrats were going to have a hard time winning michigan, pennsylvania, ohio. we found that hard to believe and ed rendell was saying the same thing and sure enough, he was right.

if y -- if you look at a map, wisconsin certainly is leaning critic sfchlt o might be rushing to beto o'rourke anafrmt noah, it so having f i'm just wondering if are. he lifted lines from n it was a

devastating blow for the campaign. it reminded me of what happened with gary hart where everyone followed him around for days. we've been talking about how the political world has changed so much. you know, in 2019, though, that may praek in joe bide i don't know's faf because a little of t th theses approximately. >> why in 1987 i was a very seasoned five years old.

joe biden as weakness is pretty plaen. he's been running for president now essentially for several months and he has spent the time addressing what is his big rs and you're starting to see now some argue mpts in the press, which i think will being of of fch and somebody talking said

this was -- jim palmary, hillary clinton's communications mana r managersfchlt maybe even a bath f you're going to see more of that as nm they're not going to be told by morning joe or n about c or pe his f and this your what most democratic voters believe to in this if a setting the candidate who will beat donald trump and set him to mar-a-lago for good. >> woo should remember sam sackly what judd say and what vots are sfchlt ayyashy, was a

message for the democratic base because the core of joe bidenan's message is from front on and from pittsburgh and other places in the industrial midwest wfr sfchlt and that he is the person that can do the best job taking back the white house. >> joe meacham, let's talk about joe as a campaigner. you may have been at middle school in '87, '88. but joe biden has been an undisciplined candidate. not on in '87 but he said a few

things about an indian american in 2007 and convenience stores and obviously said something about barack obama and that struck many people as offensivo. i guess the question is are there examples of candidates that you can think of that changed their ways? can you teach, an old dog as they say in the south, new tricks. you can at least make them limit their tricks to, as part of the moment. >>. yes, he's done all those things but donald trump is president. so what the hell do we know? the whole top position if i american politics has changed. it seems to me that there's

almost bide i don't know could have said or said that to public people saying things that even five yearsing a we would have upon. it's an eera. is not a bad counterprogramming. again, forgive me for putting it in these terms but we might as well talk about it, at leastin sociological ways. . trump has put on one show.

biden has a narrative plot, a favor tiff story to tell. if we're going to be trapped in this world, biden's pretty good show to put up against that. i don't mean to say american poll sitics is a show, i understand -- >> it's a good counterterms. >> zwred than the incoming president of the united states. >> the bernie sandors, beto o'rourke, johnson opinion.

a world dopcht you have candidated to rauzed almost all of this on. and then you saw some conventional kpds o razzed $3 million, $5 million, trying to raise it in these $28 million checks. i think that is going to be a real challenge for him to do that, both when it is an om. f if he could get through the primaries and end up in a general election but we don't know. but the primaries n one is

through the center lane and the other is a progressive to energize the base and bring out all elements of a democratic party. and right now he'll have to deal with all this enormous progressive energy. >> all right sfm. sat, are (as far as fund-raising numbers go, if you compare to to even norm right now. if the lkss were hild in the

next three weeks, bernie would probably win iowa, bernie would then win new hampshire and then bernie would have db sfrfrmt to be able to grow up in criminal with thatf if he wins iowa, new hampshire and california, the race it in effect over in the democratic party. that's why i done understand the importance of small donors, but if i'm joe biden, i just raise as much money as quickly as i can raise it and get ready to ify while the smol don't. >> well, gentlemen, i think

you've put your finger on something that hasn't heal been talked about enough, inkr sfwp he does not at this moment have an. in even with the bud alreadies or the largest check writers because he doesn't like to make those calls. >> susan page, thank you for being onwhy par tra.

from john hatch. congressman (what it manse for jove sight and the rule of law in america. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. oe." we'll be right back. every day, visionaries are creating the future. so, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. - [woman] with shark's duos clean, i don't just clean, ♪ i deep clean carpets and floors, so i got this. yep, this too, and this, please.

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. >> joining us now, omarosa newman, the author of "unhinged" an insider account of the white house, available now in paper back. and now a contributor to nbc news.com's sophia nelson.

i'm going to ask you in just a moment what happens when a president does not actually comply with subpoenas? what's the process and could this drag on forever? but first, omarosa, every time i see you talking about donald trump i'm in sort of like struck by how much you are tapped into his instincts. and so this is vintage trump to immediately start getting on a so box and saying the subpoenas are ridiculous. what do we expect his behavior will bring us next as it pertains to answering questions to the house oversight committee? >> i think what you're going to see is classic trump. trump is going to try to create chaos. it's obviously donald trump is hiding something from the american people and he knows it's certainly that will affect himself presidency and --

>> so his distractions are things he just throw out there? he doesn't care if they're true or not? >> well, let me tell you, they have these lists of shocking proposals and they would just keep them on the side. whenever they needed to throw a hand grenade to blow up the press or take over the front covers of the newspaper, they would pull out one of these very shocking proposals. many of them dealt with something try to to eradicate the -- >> but they had them in their pocket. they child about child separations. we never imagined they would do them but that was one of the shocking proposals on this crazy list that.

>> i believe that executive privilege was waved when they talked to mueller. >> what only rosa is telling us and trump would say, o they can argue over that. that's legitimate. but here as what people need to know. the third argument of improvement requests, subpoenas, from the judiciary committee. that one of the articles. so it is in fact very serious not to respond to a co-equal branch of government, which congress is under article i. it gefs congress that authority to have oversight the executive.

now, the president has raised another point which is ridiculous, which is that he can go to the supreme court and they're going to stop congress. it doesn't work that way. the supreme court, they are the third rail, they are article three, which means if there is an impeachment in the right of a. this is not his business dealings, this is not his empire. this is the united states of america and we do operate on u.s. law and the u.s. constitution. >> omarosa, you said the president is creating chaos because you believe he might be hiding something. weep just had a long two-year investigation by robert mueller.

do you think there's something more out there that the special counsel about that that particular time and those issues related to those particular emails are still under investigation. they told us ongoing in that an endless amount of skndal, unethical, illegal behavior. i was talking with my attorney yesterday about the boxes of emails that the white house still has mine from the campaign and we were discussing in preparing for what's to come with the congressional hearings possibly, if that in fact was obstruction by not allowing us to take those emails and to share those were the mule are team. >> what . >> i think a very clear clr and

we no he too long advantage he wants the american people to believe that he was transparent and that hooves cooperative and that's just not true. >> from your experience, what are some the dynamics you can describe to us of the main players that have shown up in the mueller report or who have raised a lot of questions along the way, jared kushner, ivanka trump, hope hicks. >> hope hicks surprised me because she was constantly feeding donald trump the kind of things he needed to wreak the who have ak that she had. but when she got in front of mueller's team, she was very candid and told many of things

that trump. >> our lks was kupted, our sovereign and security violated. this is the definitive conclusion of robert s. mueller third's point. and it has been reduced to a

false choice, impeachmentment or nothing. we have to get this right. the mueller report isn't just a reckoning about our recent history, it's also a warning about the future. unless checked, the russians will interfere again in 2020. and this is an urgent threatnd unle unless. f -- oversight's do andy is to work on getting answers. can you also include what impeachment is about?

as who. >> so two things. hillary clinton nailed it in that op-ed. i know she'll come under attack because she's hillary clinton and people just don't like anything that she does. jove sight judiciary, the economies a snch or is thing we the people up for some type of tyrannical, authoritarian type of government. but this notion of impeachment, high crimes and miss ddemeanorm. go back and watch the florida statement of lindsey graham and

john thune when clinton was being impeached in the house. graham said you don't have to commit a crime to be put out of this office, you have to dishonor, disrespect this office. but that's the answer to your question. it is a process that the founders put in. the founders believed in a moral and virtuous government of leaders, right? but high crimes and misdemeanors in their day could mean a whole lot of things different. the if there are crimes in the southern district can deal with that i do think that misdemeanors are what we're looking for. >> only rosa, when you leftn.

>> it met donald trump in 2003, 16 years ago. of course everyone knowsin "the apprentice." one of the things you realize when you first get around him is how charismatic he is and if you're around him, you could,s that important to know that had. and and i think it is time we put the country first. kpr some of nem had go with the trump congressman 0he joins the

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welcome to the race. this is the first time talking to you. the number is now 20 since joe biden got into the race. how do you set yourself apart as we look at a graphic on the screen. how do you set yourself apart from the 19 others? >> i think if we're going to win this race, we need to take on donald trump where he is weakest, which is his dereliction of duty as commander in chief. so i'm going to be talking about

a lot of these issues like patriotism, like security, about what we need to do to make our country strong and safe, issues that just haven't had much of a role in this campaign so far and where we have to be willing abl confront donald trump. my experience is a little bit different. the hardest thing that i've done in my life is lead an incredibly diverse group of americans in combat in iraq and even in the midst of a war that many of us disagreed with i had to find different americans, different political believes all behind a mission to serve the country and that's the kind of leadership we need from our next president. >> why are you the best vessel to articulate these things or to lead this country in the way you just mentioned? wh why you? >> my experience is unique and it is different in this field. and i'm willing to take on the

president on these issues. i mean, donald trump has delicted his duty to defend the united states. the fact his administration is defending his behavior, defending the russians on their attack in the democracy is just example number one today. he has disparaged our allies around the globe. he's cozied up to our enemies like kim jong un in north korea. i think our model for the united states of america should be the same motto that we had in the first division, which is no better friend, no worse enemy than the united states and that's how we should be acting on the world stage. >> let me ask you about the democratic party. in what ways might the party be out of sync with the american people? >> i think wef 've seated these

issues to the republicans. and that's wrong. because we're the party right now that's standing up for the constitution. we're the party that is prepared to defend this country against russia, against north korea, against the daily assaults through the internet of china on our businesses and on our military. we need to show how we are going to keep this country safe and that's what i'm going to do in this race. >> you've been critical for not bringing up articles for impeachment earlier. in your view, has leadership put politics ahead of the rule of law? >> well, this is the thing. we have sworn a duty to protect and defend the constitution of the united states and part of that duty is to put a check on the executive. it's clear that this administration under donald trump has committed plenty of crimes. i mean, 30 -- over 30 of the president's close associates have been indicted by the

mueller investigation. his campaign chairman is in prison right now. so don't tell me that's not enough to discuss impeachment. congress does two thing it is. we debate things and we vote on them. i'm not advocating for a vote right now t. we don't have all if facts, but we should be having this debate and we should have started that last year which is why last year i voted to move forward with this discussion. >> steve rat wagner? >> congressman, going back to where you started about your experience and knowledge in national security and international affairs all of which i think we would happily agree with, but those issues don't register when you ask people what the are top three or four things they care about? it's economy, health care and things like that. so how would a message center around national security do you think would advance your presidential chances? >> i'm going to talk about how we need to nak sure how ever

american will need health care. i'm going to talk about how we need to move our economy forward and embrace the new economy, not just the old, but at the end of the day, the thing that's most important to democratic voters across the country, as i talk to them on the ground is defeating donald trump and that's why we've got to be willing to take him on where i believe he's weakest. this is a prime case of dereliction of duty of the commander in chief of the united states. the way he is cozying up to our enemies. the way he's refusing to have a discussion about how russia attacked her democracy. that's shameful. after the pearl harbor atakes there was a commission and after the 9/11 attacks there was a commission that was critical of the bush administration. but you didn't say no, we shouldn't be looking at this

because it might make me look bad but that is exactly what trump is doing. that's exactly what his administration is preventing which is protecting our democracy and whether you like it or not russia will do this again. i would be shocked if russia is not involved in the 2020 campaign already given what the mueller report proved they did in 2016. >> so seth, given who you are, given your life experiences, you mentioned russia. they're here now, they've been here for a while. they'll be here in 2020, but this country has been at war for nearly two decades. if you're president of the united states, what do you do about countries like syria, iran our supposed allies, saudi arabia in fighting not an enemy in the isis but the ideology of isis, terrorism, what do you do about that nest that would be on your plate?

>> it is a mess. and frankly if you step back from these individual conflicts and just look at the war on terror at large since 9/11, there are about four times more terrorists in the world today than there were at 9/11 so we need to totally rethink our approach to the war on terror. i think we need to rethink our approach to international security in general. it means making sure troops have a clear mission and they know what they need to accomplish to come home. that's not the case right now in syria. we need to make it more clear in afghanistan so the troops know what they need to do so they can come home and we can't repeat the mistake we made in iraq when we pulled the troops out so quickly with no plan that we had to seasoned them back a year later. we need to make sure that we strengthen our alliances like

nato, that we build a pacific nato i like to call it that would help contain north korea and china. and the point is that we need to totally rethink our national security for a new world. for a new century and i don't think weir doing that right now. this administration certainly isn't doing it but we're not doing it enough in the democratic party either. >> all right. thank you so much for being on the show this morning. and until this morning congress moulton had been the most recent person to get into the race. joe biden took that mantle making his candidacy official two ours ago. we'll get the latest reporting on biden's journey. plus, oscar, tony and 'emmy award winner joining us with the look at hr latest project that sheds light on a health care epidemic affecting more than 30 million americans. we have a packed 8:00 a.m. hour ahead on "morning joe." ed 8:00 ahead on "morning joe.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is thursday, april 25th. still with us we have mike barnicle, former treasury official steve rattner. we've been talking about joe

biden's entrance to the presidential race. here's his announcement video posted just a short time ago. >> charlottesville, virginia, is home to one of the great documents in u.s. history. we know by heart. we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal and we've heard it so often it's almost a cliche but it's who we are. we haven't always lived up to these ideals. jefferson himself didn't, but we have never before walked away from them. charlottesville is also home to a defining moment for this nation in the last few years. it was there on august of 2017 we saw clansmen and white supremacists come out in the open. their crazed faces illuminated by torches, veins bulging and bearing the fangs of racism,

chanting the same anti-semitic vile heard across europe in the 30s. and they were met by a courageous group of americans and a violent clash ensued. and a brave woman lost her life and that's when we heard the words the president of the united states that stunned the world and shocked the consciousness of this nation. he said there were quote, some very fine people on both sides, very fine people on both sides? those words, the president of the united states assigned a moral equivalence between those spreading hate and those with the courage to stand against it. and in that moment, i knew the threat to this nation was unlike any i'd ever seen in my lifetime. i wrote at the time that we're in the battle of the soul of this nation. oh, that's even more true today.

we are in the battle for the soul of this nation. i believe history will look back on four years of this president and all he embraces as an abhorrent moment in time, but if we give donald trump eight years in the white house, he will forever and fundamentally alter the character of this nation, who we are and i cannot stand by and watch that happen. the core values of this nation are standing in the world, our very democracy, everything that has made america is at stake. that's why today i'm announcing my candidacy for president of the united states. folks, america is an idea. an idea that's stronger than any army. bigger than any ocean, more powerful than any dictator or tyrant. it gives hope to everyone on earth and gives hate no safe harbor. it instills every person in this

country the belief that no matter where you start in life there's nothing you can't achieve if you work at it. that's what we believe. and above all else, that's what's at stake in this election. we can't forget what happened in charlottesville. even more important we have to remember who we are. this is america. all right. so joe biden is officially in the presidential race. he is the 20th democratic candidate to join the field, joe. i liked it. what did you think? >> well, it was -- it was done very well. he delivered it very well. we talk about political athletes there, he certainly was a political athlete. i thought also something that again he's such a nice, likable guy, at least for all the people i know that know joe biden and how we feel about him, that i --

that i smiled without thinking i was going to and you said, that's why i'm running for the president of the united states. it was like an old friend running and mike, he's done it before and he hasn't faired very well when he's running for president. that's one of the things that some of the people in the obama administration are expressing concerns have said in the past, but i will say this about politics. it's a funny thing that actually -- what people expect from you, your expectations, the expectations game is almost as important as anything and i'm not so sure that it's not bad for joe biden, front runner, presumed nominee, that so many people are doubting him right now. first of all, it puts even more fire in the belly for him to prove them wrong and secondly it lowers the massive expectations a little bit and so he goes out

and does a pretty good job and people go wait, maybe we were wrong. >> you cannot be more correct on that because a lot of people when think they of joe biden because of everything that's been said about him on the negative side of the ledger for the past four or five months, oh, he was awful in '88 and he collapsed early in 2008, things like that and he's a master, he says some stupid things sometimes which we all do and now he's coming back, he's getting in the ring like an old athlete. and if he gets out there and he performs the way you just saw him perform which i think he can, i think people are going to say, hey, wait a minute now, this guy looks pretty good to me. you know, he can beat donald trump. that's where he's going i think in this campaign and we'll find out very quickly i think within the next two or three months whether his effort can be successful. i don't think it's going to be a

long drawnout affair. he's going to be covered enormously well over the next two or three months and we're going to find out very quickly whether or not the 2018, '19 version of joe biden is up to the task. >> first time he ran in 1987. it's been a very long time. he's reason running for president for quite some time. here we are, what is that 40 years later? it's a long time. 30, 40, math, come on. >> fit's not a math show. >> so 30 years. so joe, joe's been running for a very long time but even for people that maybe ran for the first time six or seven years ago, this is a strange new world, 2019. we're moving at the speed of sound politically and who knows, maybe that benefits joe biden, maybe it doesn't.

maybe something that you said in 1987 that hung out there for three weeks and destroyed a campaign, maybe it's gone by the end of the day after a donald trump insult. >> he's gotten out in front of some of the problems he expects to have. the crime bill, the accusations that were made against him a month ago or so and he's talked about those things but i think what we can't do is he can't go through and apologize for every step of his political life. we've seen younger candidates doing that now. a lot of the candidates saying i wish i had voted a different way three years ago but if vice president biden is out there saying yes, in 1978 i wish i had voted different than i did and if i had to do it today i'd do it differently. you don't want to get caught in that spin cycle. let's go to delaware. mike standing by for us in wilmington, delaware and i understand you have some word from president obama this morning. >> reporter: that's right. a couple weeks ago when we asked

joe biden about whether the party had moved too far to the left he described himself as an obama biden democrat. what will the former president do? obviously a very important figure in the party. an obama spokes person is weighing in immediately with this statement. president obama has long said that selecting joe biden as his running mate in 2008 was one of the best decisions he ever made. he relied on the vice president's knowledge, judgment and insight throughout both campaigns and the entire presidency. the two forged a special bond and remain close today. that's the statement from an obama spokes person, so a clear signal of support, not an endorsement but it's important to note that's not a statement that obama has offered for any other candidate entering the race. the president, the former president wants to maintain his status as sort of a fair arbitor of the primary but it was important for him to send that

signal. >> we'll wait to see how the race plays out. what happens here now for joe biden, the announcement is out, what are his next steps in the campaign? >> reporter: so the biden campaign tells me and we can now say that, the biden campaign, that video today interestingly starting with those words, charlottesville, virginia, that's the first pillar of three that's going to be part of the rollout of this campaign. the battle for the soul of this country. the second we'll see on monday. his first public event is in pittsburgh. he'll talk about rebuilding an inclusive middle class and he'll travel to all early states building up, talking to voters and building up towards a major public rally sometime next month that will talk about bridging america's divides. this talk about charlottesville, a battle for the soul of america, joe biden is not necessarily saying i'm a candidate that's going to appeal but try to appeal to the most progressive base. this is a joe biden get on my

back democrats. i can take the fight to donald trump. i can beat donald trump. that's the signal they're trying to send in this rollout. >> we heard it in the video already. mike, thanks so much. so joe, again, former president obama saying of his vice president one of the best decisions i've ever made was selecting joe biden to be at my side for those eight years. >> he's always said that. i will say he did -- steve rattner, he did send his best people to beto o'rourke who's now at about 3% so a lot of team obama moved very quickly behind beto. that's not going so well, but he did get a really good vanity fair cover out of it that he can always keep in think living room, but he did -- i want to go back to the apologies. this is another thing i heard from democratic leaders all day yesterday. the fear that joe biden is going to apologize for everything he's

done in public service and even somebody who was dead set against the crime bill said -- told me yesterday, what biden needs to say is hey, you weren't there in 1993. there was a crack epidemic three, four years before that. it ripped apart black communities. it ripped apart america. yeah, i voted for the crime bill. i wasn't going to sit on my hands and do nothing while all communities across this country were ripped apart and there was, again, even are from people who will say publicly i was opposed to the crime bill. they want to see biden be defiant. and say you weren't there, you don't know what the challenges america was facing at the time and yes, we took a chance and maybe it turned out wrong. but at least we tried. i heard that theme time and time again that if he starts apologizing he loses. what do you think? >> on the biden front a couple of things.

on the apology thing i agree with you. he did try a sort of a mini apology saying i wish it had been handled differently. so that strategy doesn't really work and hi eel probably go down your road. to me i think there are three things to watch as this goes forward. one is can he handle himself quite frankly and is he a new candidate or is he the candidate we've seen before which has the previous people that spoken have said it didn't obviously go very well. so we're going to see whether biden has learned from all that and whether he's a somewhat different guy this time around. the second thing is going to be the money. the money game has changed dramatically since he last run, it is very much an online game. he's never done online fund raising. and if you can't do online fund raising you're going to have trouble being competitive because he also never really liked raising money and asking

all the wealthy people to write checks so i think money is going to be an interesting barometer. and the third interesting, really the question to me is where does he position himself? you've got this spectrum from bernie sanders on one end to klobuchar who are very much going down the center lane and biden is going to be asked at every press stop, are you for medicare for all? what do you think about a wealth tax, what do you think about this and think about that? he can talk about the middle class all he wants but at some point people are going to pin him down on these issues and he's going to have decide where he wants to fit in. >> still ahead on "morning joe," pete buttgieg is challenging the religious and christian right and that's makes some of the president's supporters very nervous. we'll talk about franklin graham's new attack on the south bend mayor.

but first a check on your forecast. >> we watch a line of thunderstorms moving from texas to louisiana last night. there were tornado warnings and unfortunately we're now getting word of two fatalities from an overnight tornado. we're still waiting to get some of the daylight pictures as to how bad the damage is. but we do know two dead in overnight tornados located one hour east of shreveport. those thunderstorms have exited that area but we have flash flood warnings. it's going to move into mississippi as we go throughout the rest of this morning. as we go through the afternoon we'll watch some of those storms along i-10. it only takes one tornado to have something occur like we did last night so from new orleans to mobile, pensacola, panama city, those are the areas at risk during the day today. this storm will make it to the east coast. the rain and storms are down in mississippi, louisiana, a little bit of rain in st. louis heading

towards memphis and nashville and also heading towards columbia. the northeast is dry today but that changes as we look towards your friday. so once again, it looks like a rainy east coast for friday. maybe some heavy rain. some could get one to two inches of rain. that should clear out through the mid-atlantic region on saturday but lingering rain early on saturday and another messy storm coming through the great lakes. this is cold. we may get some snow mixing in in some areas. so it's an active weather map and that's sad news of two fatalities from a tornado overnight in louisiana. pictures of washington, d.c. pretty nice day. a pretty good stretch of great weather that ends up friday with the rain. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. we'll be right back. pnc bank has technology to help make banking easier,

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franklin graham has called for presidential candidate pete buttgieg to repent for being gay. >> oh, just shut up, franklin graham. you are a disgrace. you are a disgrace for normalizing donald trump's behavior and for using your position to suggest well, john meacham i will let you go. here's a man who along with so many people in my community, the evangelical community attacked bill clinton for his personal failings. they are now using their position, these evangelical leaders like religious leaders of jesus' day, they are now using their positions to gain political power and apologize for donald trump. now suddenly franklin graham is talking about lifestyles and -- and sinning and a guy who has gone through a very difficult

personal journey to figure out who he really is? he's criticizing them for that? because it's not a lifestyle choice, and if anybody that's heard pete buttgieg talk knows that. >> you know, what reverend graham is doing here is basically practicing elective self-righteousness and selective scriptural choices and one of the problems it seems to me with this is these kinds of extreme statements and they are extreme at this point so twitter can calm down, given where the country is on these issues, this is not anymore -- it is no longer a main stream view and thankfully so. one of the points, if you're a religious believer, one of the points of god's universe is that it does in fact reveal itself and you're able to change and grow and react to shifting data.

reverend graham is actually disproving that. he's going the other way and you know, cal thomas warned about this t. cal was the jerry falwell's first pr guy which is like being the radar operator at pearl harbor, but there he was. >> pretty good. >> thank you. >> new material? >> tylenol cold and coffee, you too can do cruise ship humor. anyway, where was i? >> about the reverend, pearl harbor. >> reporter: he coauthored a book called blinded by the mite 20 years ago where he said the religious right, the evangelical community has to be careful not to place the pursuit of power ahead of the pursuit of religious truth. and that the -- his fear was that the movement was becoming a political interest group, not an

embodyment of a group of people who were seeking a larger truth. and the psalmist said put not your trust in princes and for whatever reason these folks have put their trust in the flakiest of princes in trump. i think, you know, i'm an unsuccessful christian so i say that because i'm not saying this from some kind of secular media view, but making -- making statements like the ones graham made is exactly why it gets ever harder to communicate the gospel because people feel that you are simply another interest group pointing fingers as opposed to a church extending a hand. >> coming up on "morning joe," president trump was oh, so proud of his first face to face summit with kim jong un. president putin says hold my beer. what the new meeting this

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joining us now, the president of the council on formal relations and author of the book, "a world in disarray" richard hoo richa richard haas. >> putin and kim jong un meeting, putin saying that un has asked him to come to americas to deliver a message. what should we make of that meeting? >> it's ae reminder if the u.s./north korea talks have stalled which they have, in part because we're not willing to engage in political diplomacy. and it really means the sanctions which have been one of the pressures on north korea, they won't disappear but they'll weaken. so this idea that somehow we're going to be able to force them into giving up what to them is

their most important asset to me is simply not going to happen. >> what does that visual say to you where you have putin shaking hands with the dictator of kim jong un after he's arrived on his bullet proof train? >> twoi things to me. vladimir putin shows to the united states you can't have your way in the world and secondly, in some ways a portrait of what a post american world looks like that the degree of advantage that we have enjoyed which is really unprecedented in history since the end of the cold war, that essentially fading and part in the emergence of china and north korea and this is not an american dominated world the way it was. >> so the administration announced the other day that they were not going to extend waivers on the countries that have them. there seem to be signs that there are real financial pressures on iran from what's going on here. what's wrong with the policy

toward i rap is at this point. >> it's not clear what the goal is. the pressure we're putting on iran won't be enough to bring down the regime so the issue is, what's our definition of success? i'm a great believer in foreign policy, you know what you're trying to bring about. it's not obvious to me what it is we're trying to accomplish here. are we trying to get iran to undermine the nuclear agreement? >> what should we be trying to accomplish. >> i would say it's to reign in some of their actions whether it's in yemen, whether it's in syria. >> wouldn't this do that? >> possibly. possibly. but it reduces some resources available for them to basically pursue guns and that might be it. it might simply be, keep in in place, put pressure on these guys but we ought to be doing more to push back against them in syria. >> so richard, terrorism in sri

lanka, it's linked to syria, iraq, isis. there's one person in the united states, the president of the united states who believes isis has been defeated. the degree of difficulty in defeating an ideology especially when you seemingly are at odds with large areas of your own intelligence community. >> the biggest message to me is it shows that terrorism is not a traditional battle. there's not going to be a battleship ceremony where isis breaks its sword. it goes on and on and on. there are always going to be men and women willing to die for their perverted causes here and we should stop talking about eliminating it. we've got to be honest and steel ourselves for an open ended future where terrorism is part and parcel of our lives. it needs to be pushed back, it

means we protect ourselves but we can't sell the idea that we're going to wake up one day and terrorism will have been defeated. it doesn't work that way. we've got to level with the american people. we've got to be honest with our allies. >> finally, richard, explain what's going on in ukraine, a comedian has been elected president and what exactly that -- it shows us about an overall -- >> it's stunning. he not just got elected it came from nowhere. it would be if steven colbert announcing. >> what happened? >> it shows is how fed up the people are there with the war that's been going on for years. they're fed up with the politicians and the deep culture of prupgs. it shows how outsiders actually have a tremendous advantage. it's a disadvantage and quite honestly we've seen it here, we saw it in france with macron and

we're seeing outsiders have an advantage over insiders. this is a tough job to run an economy, to have a serious foreign policy and i'm not making criticism of the new iranian president, it just shows when you turn to outsiders you don't get people who are prepared for the job. >> really? >> i thought i'd just put that out there. >> coming up on "morning joe," what's driving the day on wall street? we'll go to cnbc for business before the bell. plus, oscar winning actress viola davis joins the table to discuss her new documentary. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ning joe" is back in a moment when did you see the sign?

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when they told me i was diabetic he gave me a pamphlet. >> and that was it. this isn't a problem. this is an epidemic. >> a new look at the new documentary, a touch of sugar that dives into america's diabetes health care epidemic and how it impacts communities across the united states. the film created in collaboration with the pharmaceutical company merck will debut today and joining us

now is the film's narrator, academy award winning actress viola davis. so you think this is early? >> well, you know what, i do have an 8-year-old so usually i do roll out of bed around 5:30, 5:00. so i wish it were evening joe. >> we'll work on that because i do too. tell us why you decided to dive -- to put your time into this. >> well, edecided to dive into it because i have a family that's been really seriously affected by diabetes. my two sisters have type ii diabetes. i had a great aunt who had type ii diabetes. both of her legs were amputated and i was doiagnosed with

prediabetes. i see myself as very educated, and when you're diagnosed with cancer people talk about radiati radiation, hormonotherapy, when you're diagnosed with diabetes it's silence, you're left alone like too much. >> joe has the next question. joe? >> yeah, my son, one of my second son has type i diabetes and so many promises of advancements but the advancements as you know, come so slowly, but it's something i really took a deep dive into for the past 20 years and you talk about cancer and cancer is tragic and it takes lives. diabetes though is so widespread it is such a crisis, and it also

is a strain on our health care system. the amount of money that is spent treating diabetes instead of preventing it is pretty staggering, isn't it? >> yes, and once again, that's why i narrated this film. i'm narrating this film and merck has also created a website, because we need the support in order to understand how to manage and live with the disease. we need advocates. we need to understand it's like even when i was diagnosed with prediabetes, i went to my doctor because i was checking for my hormone levels and she took an a 1c test. i didn't know what that was. it's a comprehensive test to measure your average glucose rate in the last two, three

months and i was at prediabetic level. that doesn't mean i movered to type ii diabetes but it meant that i had to be almost a warrior and arming myself with information of how not to develop that, and i know with -- listen, i was born in stamt matthews and you got the sugar and then pretty soon maybe you lost a foot to gangrene or whatever and it's like yeah, that's because you know, she got the sugar, you know, and people kept eating the starch, eating the corn bread, eating all the foods that's associated with my culture, african american culture and you just sort of suck cosu suck co develop it. you got to get it out in the

public forum. when you share your testimony it gives people the courage to then share theirs and to feel like they're not alone. you have so many communities that are food deserts. you know, i grew up in central falls rhode island. i grew up in abject poverty. i know there are supermarkets that don't carry -- not every supermarket is whole foods. you know, not everyone understands that you need a health care provider, that you have to be in constant communication with. some people don't even have that. but this is -- there is help out there. there is information out there to manage the disease and that's the message i want to send. >> you touched on so much of this is rooted in what you just talked about and that is poverty and that speaks to nutrition, it speaks to what you experienced where your school lunch as a child was the best and maybe only meal you had all day.

how do we intervene before this comes a problem in children for example and as they get over. >> i think it's already there. >> to teach them how to recognize it and how to prevent it. >> it's up to the people who very have an understanding about the disease. when i was growing up i remember we had a health center, black stone valley community action and the and they had a nutrition program that my mother fought for. she was one of the first women that fought for welfare reform. that's when i first learned about nutrition at 8 years old. so it's -- it's up to the communities and -- and people who have an understanding of the disease to open their mouths and help the people who don't know, you know, throw them a rope. you know, i wish i were a politician, i'm not in the house of representatives, i'm not in the congress, i probably could change laws or whatever, the only thing i could say is that

awareness. >> yeah. >> this isn't just an epidemic here in the united states. i remember traveling overseas with my mom who was a nutritionalist and specialized in diabetes and i remember a lot of people coming to us and asking how they can help because they were asking what they can do to help squash the disease. how do we become leaders on a global stage when it comes to diabetes just in your experiences and what you've seen so far. >> my experiences and my community, even with the reference to diabetes as the sugar, it's just an understanding everything is about the sugar. it's -- it's a way for us to describe the disease when we don't understand carb counts. we don't understand fresh foods. we don't understand all those foods that are associated with our culture that we just -- it becomes a habit until it becomes detrimental to us.

the only thing i could tell you is you have to see where you could fit in. listen, when i go back home i -- you know, was very, very instrumental in creating the -- and keeping that blackstone valley community action health care program going, because when i was a kid, the only health care you got was when it was an emergency and then you had to walk to memorial hospital which was three, four miles away and sit in that emergency room for five hours, you know, it wasn't until we had those little one stop health programs in these small communities that we had a place to go. and it was a source of information. i would sit there literally all day with the nurses and they would arm me with all kinds of things. that's when i learned about the food groups. do you know what i'm saying? but i don't know. you know, that's what i did with my community. that's what my mother did, but you know --

>> it is interesting to note that you're talking about access that we live in an information overloaded age, everybody has access to information multiple times a minute now. not a day. and yet we have a disease that is maybe more -- more common than the common cold it's called diabetes. children are urged to get flu shots when they're 5, 6, 7 years of old. too many people don't learn about diabetes until they have it and you're talking about growing up in central falls rhode island, and the information, you culdobe live ng a three decker and not have a computer in your home and have to go to the doctor which is the emergency room. what do we do about access to information about diabetes for more people especially minorities? >> well, you know what? you have to stop tig stigmatizi

it. i'm an actor. one of the things i realize is that when you get into a group of people, mom groups, i'll use that as an example. everybody sits in silence about what they're suffering from. and when you sit silence, what happens is people feel less alone and then they rely on their own source of information, which is nothing. you cannot tell me that within each community, even impoverished communities, that there are not people who have that information. my two sisters are in constant communication with each other about their type 2 diabetes, how they can change their diet, what they can eat, but that's because they opened their mouths. when things are stigmatized and people don't share their testimony, then people suffer in silence. this is why this documentary exists. that's why they created the website. you can go to a library.

central falls -- i went to central falls public library every day when i lived in abject poverty. i walked there when i was 5 years old. i would walk from my school on broad street to the library, sat there all day and walked home at night. it's there. if you blow the lid off of it and you tell people it is a crisis, it is an epidemic, i suffer from it, my mom suffers from it, this is what we did, this is what we did, and it's like a domino effect. it's like anything. you know, not to mention any sort of thing that's happening now where people finally share their testimonies and then it became a hashtag, it became a movement, it became a conversation. well, this needs to be a revolution and needs to be a hashtag, it needs to be -- yeah. >> that's why you're doing the new documentary. it's called "a touch of sugar." viola davis, thank you so much for being on the show. it's great to meet you.

>> nice to meet you too. >> a great message. up next, two big business stories this morning. facebook braces for a huge financial fine, while new criticism of disney hits close to home. abigail disney, whose grandfather co-founded the company, is taking aim at executives' multimillion dollar paydays and wage inequality. as we go to break, someone who knows a thing or two about negotiations. >> what mistakes do you think that women make along the way in their careers that end up having them leave money on the table? >> i think the most important mistake that women make is not asking. >> exactly. >> it's just simple. if you are not prepared to ask, then you are never going to get what you deserve. >> yes. and as a member of the know your value team, senator claire mccaskill is jumping into this conversation. this week she's talking about the disease to please. we have it, right, as women? it's so bad, get rid of it.

viola davis knows all about it, right? >> yeah, at 53, a mom, absolutely. >> the disease to please, we've got to stop. so go to knowyourvalue.com, claire will help you with that. something we will discuss in detail at next month's ascend summit right here in new york city. go to knowyourvalue.com for tickets to that. "morning joe" is coming right back. t back we call it the mother standard of care. it's how we care for our patients- like job. his team at ctca treated his cancer

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do some interviews, do a town hall because mayor pete is coming in hot. right now you're just a dude who supports legal marijuana, wears the same shirt every day and rides around in a van. you're shaggy from scooby do. >> oh, my gosh, that's him. okay. that was funny. my daughter gave me her thoughts on beto yesterday. >> what did she say? >> i'm not going to share. time now for business before the bell. what a tease. sara eisen, sara, facebook says it's expecting to be hit with a multi billion dollar fine by the u.s. government over accusations of privacy violations. how much could this cost the company? >> so, as much as $5 billion. the significance here, mika, is that it would be the first real financial punishment or penalty for facebook in the united states for violating users' trust over privacy. now, it's also a drop in the bucket for facebook. i mean this is a company that gets $56 billion in annual

revenue per year. so barely makes a mark. the stock is actually surging today because what the earnings revealed yesterday is that users are still coming to facebook, 8% growth there. advertisers are still coming to facebook, 26% growth on sales there. but yes, we did get this bit of news that the trump administration is likely soon to settle, that's the federal trade commission, with facebook over violating this privacy consent decree that goes back to 2011 where facebook did promise to be more careful with user data. that was reopened after the cambridge analytica scandal when they were accused of not doing that during the election. so facebook is still a winner today, but we did get that clarity. and that revolution on the ftc possible fine. also just wanted to tell you broader markets are being dictated right now by earnings. it looks to be lower on concerns about industrial companies, but generally, guys, it's been positive. i mean stocks are just a few points away from record highs.

it's been a tremendous recovery in 2019, up about 17% for the overall market, mika. >> all right, sara. in an op-ed for "the washington post" entitled "it's time to call out disney and anyone else rich off their workers' backs," abigail disney excoriated the walt disney company for awarding its chief executive, bob iger, a pay package last year worth $65 million. abigail is granddaughter of roy disney, who founded disney in 1923 with his brother, walt. the disney family has not been involved with managing the company since 2003. she writes this, it's time to call out the men and women who lead us and to draw a line in the sand about how low we are prepared to let hard-working people sink while top management takes home ever more outrageous sums of money. the people who contributing to its success also deserve a share of the profits they have helped make happen. here's my suggestion to the walt

disney company leadership. lead. if any of this rings any moral bells for you, know that you are uniquely situated to model a different way of doing business. yasmin, this is like the ultimate inequality story. i've heard this a lot about disney and other companies where the people at the very bottom, they never grow. >> and it's interesting because disney's defense to all of this is we know, we pay our workers more than the minimum wage of $7.25. but elizabeth warren made this point a couple of days ago, you cannot expect people to live on that. that's not a living wage for anybody at $7.25. that's not even a proper defense. >> no, it's not. and bank of america just raised the stakes by making minimum wage $20. like why can't disney do this? sara, why can't they do this? what's the excuse? what excuse could there be? >> well, one big excuse is that if you look into bob iger's pay package, a lot of that is tied to how the stock price is doing. that is just executive

compensation incentives. and by the way, since iger took over, to his defense the stock has quintupled. now, that doesn't mean it looks good for it to be 1400 times your median employee. their median wage is about $46,000 and that's going to come up in politics. but i would say in their defense that the stock price really has a lot to do with the story. >> i will also say, mika, really quickly that one movie, "the avengers," which disney took over after bob iger, one movie will make that entire salary tomorrow. so i understand the anger and the concern, but the world has changed since walt disney and roy disney were at the company. the stakes are much higher and they're making billions and billions more dollars today than they were even ten years ago. >> we'll book this out tomorrow and continue the conversation.