interfere with government functions. that's what the president did by obstruction. >> boy he's smart. >> that was fox news judicial analyst andrew nepalitano, who contrast to what donald trump said. trump also said he believes barr will do what's right and go after trump's perceived enemies, interesting given a decision that was made about a terrorist in the past 24 hours. we'll get to that. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, april 26 r, along with joe, willie and me we have john heilemann, the co-host and, tiff approach dueser of show

time's "the circus." renowned adman and political commentator donny deutsch is with us. >> and we're going to be putting master chain saw repairman as well. >> very good. >> republican strategist and analyst susan del percio. associate editor for "the washington post" and political analyst eugene robinson is with us on this friday as well. we've got a lot to get to this morning, joe, including more from the president's interview with fox news appearing to blame hillary clinton for the russia investigation. >> >> he also attacks john mccain given. and a coast guard lut ent accused of planning to murder

politician and journalists will not face terrorism-related charges and can soon be released. >> the judge in that still is very, very fearful that this man who was plotting to launch a terrorist attack and kill nancy pelosi and chuck schumer and most of the members of the democratic caucus who are running for president and as well as media members, barr will not charge them. the u.s. attorney will not charge this terrorist with acts of terrorism or a plot to actually kill people that run america's government i guess because they don't support donald trump. it is shocking. we'll talk about that in just a little bit. but i guess barr doesn't think that you're a terrorist if you try to kill people that don't support donald trump. >> woe're going to have legal

analysts talk about that. this is obviously deeply personal. we get to that part as well. not on did north korea send otto warmbier home but they sent a $2 million bill for his care. biden also got an early endorsement in the first primary state of new hampshire from popular former governor john lynch and cnbc reports that new york's current democratic governor andrew cuomo is throwing his powerful

fund-raising network behind biden. >> if you are the best choice for the democrats in 2020, why didn't president obama endorse you? >> i asked president obama not to endorse. and whoever wins this nomination should win it on their own merits. welcome to delaware. >> all right. so, willie, pretty good day yesterday for joe biden. >> yeah. i mean, the response to the video was good, the rollout the good, the president of the united states welcomed joe biden to the race, calling him "sleepy joe biden." we did see the first criticisms of him from bernie sanders who put out a fund-raising e-mail going after in a side ways way joe biden for having a fund-raiser with corporate lop

y -- lobbyists. we heard criticism from elizabeth warren over banks that shoes be she's been in a fight with him over the past couple of decades. biden is going to try to occupy a bigger space that trends towards the center. >> he's the only one who has put donald trump at the center of his campaign. the one attribute you have to give biden credit for yesterday is that video made very clear what the central rationale for his candidacy is. that's to himself credit. nobody waulks away not understanding what it's about.

>> "the new york times" led with the anita hill story, that joe biden called to apologize to anita hill. she didn't accept and she said biden now needs to apologize to women across america because he may have hugged them inappropriately. >> i don't think that joe biden given his long career in government, he cannot start this out on an apology tour. he can explain the decisions he made when he did and what's happened since and how if you want to say he's evolved or gone on a listening tour or something like that, but he cannot start apologizing out of the gate. and to john heilemann's point, i think that gate that he came out of, going against donald trump and showing that he is the one to take him on and that strength was part of that argument. you can say everything else you want about my record but cannot deny at least right now i am the

best one to take on donald trump. >> and donny deutsch, that does seem to be the belief by many people. what do you think about joe biden calling anita hill, anita hill not accepting the apology and then saying he needs to apologize to the rest of the women in america. should biden move forward? >> how is he going to address all of the things in terms of banking and criminal reform? i think the answer for biden is he's not a flip flopper age 47 and change your views at 48. 77-year-old men, just like 60-year-old men, we do think and act differently than 20, 30 years ago. i think americans are evolved enough to understand that when you have a 40, 50-year record

you're going to be able to look back and say, gees, as a 43-year-old guy that was pretty dumb. i think that's going to be the play book across the board. what was so strong about him yesterday, and, yes, he is the best or certainly one of the best antoine ghani-trumps, but word that came through yesterday that is to me from a tactic point of view or human description point of view is compassion. that's what came across as a human. it's so ironic that we talk about him always giving hugs. that was kind of a big hug to the country in effect. and to me if that compassion shows through in everything he does, whereas i have not felt in the gut about any of the candidates emotionally as much as i felt yesterday, that was a rig right-brain move. going forward all the left-brain

chunks in terms of policy have got to be in there but for him you could not have started in a better place. >> there are two candidates that stand out to me as ready to face trump. donald trump tweeted about biden, questioning his intelligence and said he disagrees with the premise of biden's announcement video. >> we are in a battle for the soul of this nation. i believe history will look back on four years of this president and all he embraces as an aberrant moment in time. >> when biden makes the statement talking about the soul, i mean, the soul, take a look at the obama -- i heard somebody say before that there was such dissension and division, people forget there was tremendous division during the obama administration. we actually have great spirit right now. and just to finish that off, we

are a country respected again. >> actually, everything he just said there was actually false, except for the fact, mika, that there were divisions during the baum e obama era but he took a bad situation and made it worse. >> i any what truthink trump's us the chance to show america exactly what he was talking about and put those sound bites side by side and hear bide i don't know ta-- biden talking about the soul of america and choosing his words carefully and then an idiot riffing, here it is, america. side by side. talk a lo-- take a look, take a listen and it's your choice. >> if you were in court you'd

say, "your honor, i rest my case" and joe biden can't rest his case. i liked the video putting the crisis at center stage, we must get rid of donald trump, he is doing tremendous damage to the country, potentially lasting damage to the country if he's allowed to stay in office an additional four years, it will be much, much worse. and to paint himself as a guy who can stop the madness, who can get us back on a course where we can have credible debate about foreign policy and defense spending and all the thng things we should argue about rather than dealing with this lunatic in the white house, this family grifters that have

attached themselves, like leaches to the white house. it it's incredible. i agree with something that donnie said, you can picture joe biden up on the debate stage next to donald trump, giving better than he gets, right? he's not going to shrink from trump, he's not going to look small. he's not going to look insubstantial in the least and he's not going to look intimidated. you know, that's important. i think those are nonverbal cues are important. >> for all the litmus test and everything that the candidates are being asked, those policy questions will be there. but i think what joe biden did yesterday was to tap into something more advice rah visce

donnie said, do you really want to go through this for four more years. when you go to dinner parties, you talk to each other, people aren't feeling great. he'll have some hard questions, he'll stumble, we know that, from time to time. but what he was saying yesterday is we don't want four more years of this and i'm the guy can put a stop to this and the polls show him up by 8 points in one poll. >> if he can stay on message and if that can remain his message and if he can take cues from nancy pelosi on how nancy pelosi has every time something as come up that she's believed would run off the suburban voters, that put democrats in charge in the house of representatives to give them the subpoena power to actually push donald trump on a lot of issues, if joe biden

follows that play book, that's very good news. so, mika, we also have some disturbing news coming out of the courtroom yesterday. >> wool ge'll get back to bide don't know -- biden. the coast guard lieutenant accused of planning a terrorism plot will not face terrorism charges and could be released. a federal judge said that 50-year-old christopher hassan is eligible to be released on bail as he awaits trial on drug and firearm charges because prosecutors have not charged him with any terrorism-related offenses. u.s. district court judge charles day said yesterday he still had grave concerns about hassan and could not justify holding him. he could be released in the coming days after the judge sets conditions.

judge day said he will hold another hearing to work out a supervision arrangement that will include electronic monitoring and other measures before hassan's release. in new court filings this week, federal prosecutors argue that hassan, quote, continues to pose a serious danger, however, his attorneys say the accusations against him are overblown. joining us now state attorney for palm beach county dave aaronberg and legal analyst david cevallos. >> help mee out here. this guy was found with a massive weapons cache, he had a manifesto inspired by a norwegian terrorist who gunned down 70 children in a summer

ca camp, white nationalist and had nancy pelosi and chuck schumer and democratic candidates running for office as well as tv hosts, yours truly, on that list. he had the means to carry out his manifesto, his murderous manifesto, and basically he wanted to decapitate the democratic part. h -- party. how does a judge and how does attorney general barr sit on this case and not let his u.s. attorneys charge this guy with something else? >> yeah, joe. the reason why so many prosecutors have dark circles under their eyes is we lose sleep over cases like this. here you have the guy with his target list and his manifesto and the judge himself says he

needs supervision, he's got grave concerns, but the law is what it is and he's not being charged with international terrorism. he's not even being charged with violent crimes, which could keep him behind bars. as far as domestic terrorism, there is no separate federal statute on domestic terrorism that's something congress should address. >> i have to ask why? how could this be? these are the thanksgiving that y -- things that you find after a massacre and you go, oh, these are the warning signs, we should have noticed them. i say this as the wife of someone who is on that list so you may hear a little intensity in my voice but i think trump's doing this. how can i not do that math in my mind that the attorney general is making a clear decision here to make sure the lives of people who are being targeted continue to be in danger because they will not put together the pieces

of this case. a stockpile of weapons, a list of people that he wants to kill. are you serious? there's no way not to let this guy walk? you've got to be kidding me. someone give me a legitimate reason. danny, try. >> i'll try. the attorney general is constrained by the law and the d.o.j. policies, and in this case there are no domestic terrorism charges that something congress can take up. in addition, the judge and the a.g. are constrained by the law. the bail reform act requires bail, unless there are no circumstances that will assure the safety of the community. and reasonable minds can differ on whether or not the community will be safe if this prn is ers released -- >> there's always a way around it. i know it. >> if somebody threatens the president of the united states, they're thrown in jail. >> that's right. >> and this guy put tif this gu

president of the united states on the list instead of the speaker of the house and democratic minority candidates, that person would be in jail and that person would stay in jail. >> that's partially right because threats against the president are a separate federal crime. what you have here and what the judge recognized is that unfortunately in our law, it is legal to have the most hateful, violent thoughts and even put them down on paper, but the attorney general is required not just if he has probable cause, he has to believe under d.o.j. policy that he has this case beyond a reasonable doubt and in american law there is a huge gray area between perfectly legal, evil thoughts and actual acts. and in this case at its core you have unlawful possession of firearms by an addicted person that's alleged and then a simple possession of drugs. all of that other intent in the writings and the hateful speech,

is really going to be a close call for a jury if he's charged with some kind of terrorism and, again, we don't have domestic terror charges in this country. so this has always been a challenging case from the prosecution and it was a challenging case for the judge under the bail reform act to decide whether or not to release him. and he's not being released into the community at large. he's going to have electronic monitoring, he's going to have a curfew, he's going to have to turn over all his guns. hoose going to -- he's going to watched. >> if somebody threatens the president of the united states, they're in trouble and go to jail. but if you have a plot to kill the speaker of the house, third highest ranking constitutional officer, you're fine, you get out of jail, even though you have the manifesto, you have the weapons, the plans and the means

and you've expressed you're going to can i go the speaker of the house. then you're fine? >> depends on what federal prosecutors charge you with. in general -- >> isn't that the rub right there, what federal prosecutors decide to charge you with. >> and they didn't. >> and they didn't. and barr didn't. and the u.s. attorney didn't. and yet when the republicans get gunned down, of course everybody was asking why didn't we do something before steve scalise and other republicans got shot at? who in the hell would look at this manifesto and then say, you know what, this might be a tough case, i don't know if we want to move it forward or not. who would do that after steve scalise's shooting, after the white nationalism that's exploding across america? >> joe, these are all fair points, i understand your passion and mika's pass on this. under federal law defendants are entitled to pretrial release

unless they pose a flight risk or if they pose a danger to the community, which you would think would be in this case. >> i think that's good. i think you could actually check that box off, william barr. >> it usually boils down to whether or not the defendant has been charged with a crime of violence and here the defendant is charged with weapons and drugs. if he were caught with a kilo of cocaine, he would likely be isn't to jail but here he was charged with procession of tramadol, which doesn't qualify. >> and the torng hattorney gene a lot of ability to do something and he hasn't, duh, i wonder

why. >> is there any method by which he can be detained, even if they don't bring charges? >> no. ultimately they have to bring charges in order to detain him. there must be pending charges. you bring up a good point. >> danny, hold on a second. who makes the decision to bring those charges? >> the u.s. attorney in that district and arguably you could say that a.g. barr can make a decision on that. >> the justice department makes that decision. >> you mean the president's lackey. >> go ahead. >> in this case i am glad willie pointed out the government is arguing strenuously for pretrial detention in this case. the judge recognizes that the bail reform act requires at least bail opportunity if there is not a crime of violence or some other certain conditions

where there's a presumption of detenti detention. the idea behind that unfortunately in this case is that defendants generally are entitled to bail. and that doesn't mean, again, he's going to walk free. he's going to have restrictions. >> thank up guys bo-- you guys much. i want to be really clear here. mika may have her reasons for being upset about this. i'm not upset personally. what i'm upset about is that there is somebody that has been inspired by a white nationalist who killed 70 children at a day camp and blew up six people in oslo with a bomb on the same day, this guy has written a manifesto claiming to be inspired by him and what concerns me is he's targeted nancy pelosi, he's targeted chuck schumer, he's targeted all

democratic senators that have decided that they're going to reason against donald trump and he's targeted people in the media who have been seen as critics of donald trump. i mean, the consequences of this, the long range consequences of this are shocking and it goes back to what i said just a week or two ago about the attorney general, that the biggest dangers, the biggest threats ahead to our constitutional republic would be if he continued to be a hack in deciding who hoove was going to prosecute and who he was not going to prosecute. >> and here we are. >> there is no other attorney general who would see the third highest ranking person in the land on a kill list from a self-professed white nationalist inspired by a norwegian mass murderer and say, you know what, i don't know if i can make this case or not, we're just not

going to charge him. it's absolute nonsense. in is all in the attorney general's hands and i hope that the democrats that are out on the campaign trail, i hope -- i hope the speakers office, i hope the lawyers at cnn, the lawyers at other networks, the lawyers at this network will start pressuring the attorney general, start pressuring the u.s. attorney general, start pressuring the judge to not let this domestic terrorist in training out. >> still ahead on "morning joe," bob mueller says don mcgahn is, quote, a credible witness with no motive to lie or exaggerate. judging by his twitter account, president trump feels otherwise. as matt miller pointed out, the president is weakening his already paper thin executive

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we're following a lot of other news this morning. officials in sri lanka lowered the death toll from sunday's easter suicide bombings to 253. the country's health ministry revised the number by nearly a third saying the error occurred due to difficulties identifying victims. sri lanka is bracing for the possibility of more attacks over the next few days as the prime minister says militants who may have explosives remain on the loose in the country. investigators in paris believe that a short circuit near notre dame's spire or negligence by workers doing renovations may be possible for last week's fire. while nothing has been ruled

out, officials say attention has been focused on electrical installations near its spire, including a series of six mid-sized bells. police also found cigarette butts on the scaffolding, but a spokesman for the company that erected the scaffolding denied the claims. >> willie, we lost a great one last night in basketball. >> i wish mike barnicle was here to talk about this. john havlicek died last night at 79. his steal of an inbound pass helped the celtics hold off opponents.

>> he gets it out. havlicek steals it! havlicek stole the ball! it's all over, it's all over! >> "havlicek stole the ball," the great johnny most on the play. he helped lead the buckeyes to the national championship, set celtics career records in point and games. every one of havlicek's 16 seasons was spent in a celtics uniform, 13 of them as an all star. and disney and marvel's final installment of the "avengers"

series, has raked in $43 million as overnight ticket sales are expected to hit $260 million to $300 million in the u.s. alone. the film could earn $1 billion globally in less than a week. i was online last night trying to get tickets for george and his buddy to go see the movie today. i was flipping through the show times and there was one in my neighborhood at 2 a.m. this morning and it was totally sold out. at that point there were a couple seats there in the front row but they were gone quickly after. it's a three-hour movie, it starts at 2 a.m., you got some previews, the movie starts at 2:15, people walking out of the theater at 5:15 a.m. on a friday morning just to be the first to see this movie. they might have a billion dollars this week. >> i actually looked at theaters within 20 miles of here and they

were almost all sold out. i finally found something at 8 a.m. on saturday morning. this was three days ago, 8 a.m. on saturday morning. but, you know, i think probably the reason why it will shatter all records, the reviews are over the top. i mean, rotten tomatoes, 97%. the early rear views from critics who have seen the film, the early audiences, talks about it being extraordinarily emotional, a great surprise ending and people crying four, five, six times during it. it is a three-hour movie that, you know, usually for this sort of movie is, you know, an hour 50, two hours. this is going to be a huge one. >> donnie, are you taking your kids? >> my daughters are not in that

wheelhouse. in this climate people really need diversion and need heroes. mika, i know you're not quite sure of the arc of ant man and you would have chosen somebody else beside paul rudd to play him. >> no, no, paul rudd is amazing. >> no, this is mika. >> if she had any idea what she was talking about, she would tell you she loved paul rudd. >> she doesn't see where the ant man character fits in. >> isn't that you, donnie? >> i know you're obsessed with ant man because that's what she's called you for years. >> i'm a political commentator, i'm not ant man. >> one of the reasons this movie is go well over $1 billion, the promotion has been extraordinary. of course, willie, i'm going to credit at least 500 million of the gross box office receipts to your stunning interview with

jeremy ritter this weekend where he gives away all the secrets to "avenge "avengers." >> the cast, they were contract you'llly n contractually not allowed to say anything about the movie. a couple clues he gave me, he said there will be some opening credits at the beginning of the movie, which are great. and he said right about the three-hour mark there are some closing credits that are really extraordinary. so you don't want to miss that interview on sunday "today." it going to it's going to be a real barn burner. the >> by the way, let's also talk about something that happened

last night, the nfl draft. once again an oklahoma quarterback selected first. what do you think about the giants' pick? >> if you watched any of that, the draft was in nashville last night, it was one of the most extraordinary sites. i'm passion to nashville having gone to nashville but the street of lower broad way, there were 100,000 people out there in the rain to watch college kids get drafted. this were hanging out in bars, singing, it was incredible. the core question is did the giants do the right thing? they had the sixth pick and the 17th pick, a lot of giants fans weren't necessarily pleased with the choice of duke quarterback daniel jones because they believe he still would have been there if this waited for the 17th pick. >> they had jones on their board much higher than haskins.

had the redskins taken jones, they would have lost their man. they still got a great defensive end from clemson in the future. we'll know in the future. >> give him a chance, i say. >> coming up, the must-read opinion pages, including two new pieces from gene robinson and david ignatius on joe biden's entrance into the 2020 race. why they both say he has what it takes to beat trump in the election. we'll be right back. every day, visionaries are creating the future.

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time now for the must read opinion pages and two on joe biden. david ignatius writes that joe biden is the best candidate to beat trump. he's piece reads in part "joe biden's limitations on oo presidential candidate are too obvious that that are almost a lit any. he's too old, too white, too male, too touchy-feely, too loquacious. but he has one huge plus. he may be the person who could

move president trump out of the white house. if the nom minating process produces a candidate who appeals to the party's base but can't defeat the ibt, it will have failed. none of these ideas matter unless a democrat wins. the dama the damage trump could do in a second term might not be undone for decades. in thinking about their pear's nominee, must be the country

first. >> he yesterday wanted to lay out the narrative that i can beat donald trump and that we can't continue this way. we know over the next weeks and months he'll fill in those policy blanks. gene is also writing in "the washington post" this morning, his piece "biden may or may not win the nomination, but he knows the stakes." he writes "to be silent about trump is to tiptoe around the elephant in the parlor. is biden too moderate for a part

that has moved -- >> gene, i think he'll have to do what you said, he'll have to reach out to the new left wing of the party. >> he'll have to show how the party is evolving, how the party has changed and he has to embrace the new. he can't be resistant to that. you know, that said, as i mentioned earlier, i can see him up on that debate stage against donald trump, i can see him out on the campaign trail against donald trump. and in strict political terms,

there are a couple of groups that biden starts with a head start on, one is the working class white voters in the rust belt, the voters who voted, many of them, for obama, some of them voted for bernie sanders in the primary last time and then they ended up voting to donald trump. joe biden speaks to those voters so he starts in a good place there and he also has a history with african-american voters that others in the race are just starting to develop because of the sort of long career. people know him. so you can imagine in a primary state like south carolina, for example, joe biden could do quite well. and you have to have african-american voters come out in large numbers if you're going to win a nomination, if you're going to become president. >> i agree with both gene, gene,

great column and also david's column. having said that, we've got to be careful if it just the moral argument. if you go back to '16, they elected, we elected a president that talked about going after john mccain, grabbing women and we need our moral compass in health care that's fair, in a legal system that's not rigged, in wages that start at $15 and $20. if it just me versus trump, good versus bad, i get worried when i look back at '16, although obviously he's not hillary clinton. >> no, but i do think there has to be a very clear message as to

how he brings the economy into the future. we're going to be bringing in the co-found aer of axios, mikel i don't know. your site is looking at what people call the biden disconnect. >> if you talk to any democrats within a few miles of where i'm sitting right now, they're going to give you that david ignatius l litany, they're going to talk about joe biden as a man out of time. yet if you look at the coverage and the country and the polls here at "morning joe", he's the front-runner. a biden adviser said they like being the underdog and because of the disconnect, they feel like they are the underdog. so many of the pundits, so many of the long-time democrats give him so little chance. so this is going to be the biden subtext. he'll never say this out loud but the message that we were getting yesterday was this is no time for rookies.

we saw that in that video for the first time on "morning joe" very presidential, old fashioned, saying i don't need to give you the bio shots like other folks do. >> hi, john heilemann here. he said it goi's going to be cl relatively quickly, whether or not biden will fall apart relatively quickly or maintain his status as one of the presumptive front-runners. a, do you agree with that? b, what do you think the metrics are the press will use to judge biden in the first couple of weeks that he's now a candidate? >> if you look at those from yesterday, the bide i don't know camp was encouraged. he was not pounced on by the left, which is what they're concerned about. it not going to be whether he falls apart. it's going to be how much of the

energy, how much of the criticism of the field is trained on him. and, john, as you know, the vice president is very prepared for the or people in the fooled to go aft -- field to go after him. he knows that they see him as the big dog. what he says is behind the scenes, i've been hurt a lot in my life, these people can't hurt me. so he's going in looking for that fight. >> thank you very much. appreciate having you on this friday. >> have a good weekend. >> susan del percio. obama endorsed hillary in june of 2016. why wouldn't president obama endorse joe biden? >> well, i don't think it's because of the reason the vice president gave that he didn't ask for his endorsement, which would be very odd, but there is a large field and i'm sure that in time we'll see how things kind of fall out, but there is time for an endorsement. and this is -- because of the change in the democratic primary

and their convention rules, it's going to be really -- it's going to be a tough slug because a lot of people are going to be going to the convention with a lot of delegates. so it is going to be a hard fight. i think that if former president barack obama can stay out of it just a little bit, it wouldn't necessarily hurt biden unless there is a big time to decide and say we need to now put who the next person is. and just one other thing on biden, i think a lot of other people have been talking about how stays front-runner and works in the primary, i think it's also those poll numbers are important to look at, but the other number that will probably be central to his campaign is the one that shows that he is able to beat president trump. if those numbers still remain high, much higher than any other democratic candidate and the democrats are putting the number one prior as beating president

trump, that will keep him in the race and keep him alive and well. >> yeah. just interesting because the decision hadn't been made as to who was the nominee when obama went behind clinton. so it was just -- i don't think you should -- okay. susan del percio, thank you very much. gene, thank you as well. still ahead, as biden was jumping in, bernie was doubling down. we'll talk about the senator's proposal to give all prisoners voting rights. that conversation is just ahead on "morning joe." everyone's got to listen to mom.

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we're learning new details surrounding the release of the late otto warmbier. pyongyang issued a $2 million bill for hospital care for the then comatose young man.

north korea insisted it pledged to pay the bill, which was first reported by "the washington post" be signed by u.s. officials before agreeing to release the university of virginia student in 2017. according to the post citing two people familiar with the situation, the envoy sent to get warmbier signed an agreement to pay the bill, which had not been previously revealed by u.s. or north korean officials on instructions passed down from president trump. the paper says the bill went to the treasury department, where it remained unpaid throughout 2017 and it is unclear whether the trump administration paid the bill at a later date or if it came up in preparation for the president's two summits -- >> all right, this is sick. north korea's leaders, kim jong un, who is one of the most tyrannical leaders in the world

beat to death -- he was responsible for beating to death a university of virginia student, otto warmbier, and now we're hearing that after they beat him senseless, beat him to death and bring him home comatose where he dies, they presented donald trump with a $2 million bill. and this is the guy that donald trump said he writes love letters to, the weakness of it all, the lack of shame of it all, this is humiliating for the president of the united states and by extension to our country. >> we shouldn't be surprised that kim jong un acted this way. the question now is was the payment made? you could say if you're sitting in that room and they ask you to sign a letter of intent to get that young man the hell out of that country you might sign it and never pay it. what we need to know from the treasury department was that $2 million paid? and i hope to god our country did not pay $2 million to

recover a young man who was killed by the north korean regime. the white house was asked about th this. sarah sanders says we don't comment on hostage negotiations this begs -- it raises further questions. we know it was signed, the letter of intend. weep ne we need to know if that $2 million was transferred to north korea. if it was, it is appalling but we don't have the answer yet. >> we have with us john heilemann, political commentator -- >> ant man. >> ant man, donny deutsch, senior adviser move on.org, corine jean pierre and host of the president national action

network, reverend al sharpton. r reverend al will host "not just black and white." really quickly, reverend, i'd love to ask you about joe biden entering the race. there's been a lot of attention on mayor pete over the last several weeks, but this election, the real election for the democratic nomination does not really begin until it turns south from new hampshire and goes down to south carolina because at that point you start moving away from two states that are predominantly white, overwhelmingly white, and start going to south carolina where you have a more diverse electorate that is far more reflective of what the democratic party is. >> no doubt about it. i think as we move south after new hampshire, you start dealing with not only a diversity in

race and you have a diversity in class and you're going to have to really prove to people that you understand their situations, be it economic or social, be it across rashial and gender lines and that you can relate. i think when we get to south carolina, on to nevada, california and all, we begin to see the real race. and i think the real battle is going to be, joe, whether or not we can have candidates that can appeal to thos blue collar white workers and at the same time talk to the black and brown communities in a way that we relate and that woo feel with our policies and how you're able to reconcile both. i think there's's been this strategy of one or the other. i think the one that can beat

trump can have a around black and brown pop around what their common is under this administration now. >> so does joe biden seem just at this point because people grow on the campaign trail, but just at this point, does joe bide i don't know seem to be best equipped to bring about that synthesis working class white voters and blah and white voters. >> he has the the request. you cannot ignore what anita hill is saying and should not. you cannot ignore some of the things around the crime building. he did dom out and say he was wrong. so he's got to get by some things but he has the equipment.

there are other candidates that may have it as well. he's going to have to prove himself. as a kid i used to love muhammad ali. he had to prove himself to be the greatest every fight. it takes one punch and you're no longer the greatest, you're the former greatest. >> joe biden's cam pan revealed yesterday he recently reached out to call anita hill to express regret over her treatment when she testified before the senate judiciary committee was. >> in a statement the biden campaign said they had a private discussion where he shared with her directly his regret for what she endured and his sad miration for everything that he has done to cha and speaking to the "new york times," hill said she left the conversation fooling deeply

uncharacterized biden's's word to her as an apology ji and quote, i cannot be satified by simp simplyi will be satisfied when i know there is rool change, real accountability and real purpose. core i corine. >> so this is really a tough one and i think it has been, to say the obvious, i think it has ban blind spot for joe biden. i know joe biden, i worked in the obama administration, i think the world of him and got to know him really well.

you know, this phone call that biden offered and made, it was 28 yoors in the making, right, it took a long time for it to happen. and for it to happen wooks before he was about to announce, i can understand why anita hill is a little bit kind of like, well, you know, it's a little bit too late. so it is something that's he's going to have to continue to deal with. it is something that's he's go to have take on a little bit more head on. and it going 's going to ten to up. the fact is, anita hill was treated badly during the clarence thomas hearings. if you really think about it, if you look at the visual of it, too, if you look back at videos, it was a black woman sitting there with her older african-american parents and a committee of white men and it was very uncomfortable to watch and i'm sure it was incredibly

embarrassing for her and it, look said, it's been 28 years and no conversation has ever happened. and in is certainly a blind spot. >> anita hill said the phone call didn't feel like an apology to her, it felt hike an explanation, i'm sorry you didn't feel that way about it. have up heard enough from him, has the national action network heard enough from him to explain that vote? you said he'd apoll joozed for it and thought it was the wrong thing to do. do you believe voters will move past that? >> i think it has to be discussed because now pop that suffered in undue long sentences, unjustified sentences, are still in so so you can't just wipe it away.

its i didn't ask him. this want in roo spops to a question. who brought it. in the crime balance the community had been unundated with crack. people were react be. when i marched gps the crime balance bernie sanders voted. this is not a joe biden issue, but if woor going to have this discussion, we should have it as a asks and i don't think it fair to isolate it to one candidate who many in in ras supported at

that too many it was you have to remember the context of so many of these things. the a first round pick draft. and also the epidemic, the crime wave epidemic from '89, '90, '91, '92. there were democrats and rabs supporting it. again, context of it. a lot of people are going to go back to 1974 and him voting against bussing.

there were a lot of democrats saying, wait a second, we want to integrate schools,s that fine, but doesn't ask micah to whack up at 5 dlk 30 in the morning and drive 45 minutes across town. that wasn't a rab or a democratic thing. and so for a guy that's been in office this long, it's awfully difficult to rach back 30 or 40 years, look at a vote, i don't so i know who len bias is -- >> you're ameasures in it there that would help the community, there were measures that dealt with gun control and there were these draconian sentencing

guidelines. s that why people like bernie sanders supported itso there's nuance to has to legislations and you have to deal with the nuance. the difference here is that bide i don't know was the bide i don't know needs to figure out is how to show contrition without -- it was accused obviously of inprchl prchl and pop have meksed foolings or he

joked about it at the union event. i thought that was a very peculiar way of happened willing it. i was a little bit surprised to be honest. nom ally he madd can be. >> welfare reform, he also said, though, who lds sudden right, but then he made the jokes, which sort think he need to get a about the grass things that you no he's going to have to address, he's going to have to learn to show contrition a

little bit better. >> he also has to say hey, listen, i was there, you weren't. the walk war vote was a year and a half after 9/11. we had the cia director tell, that it was a slam dunk that almost almost weapons of mass destruction. krakor of doing this. i'm not relocating this about it decisions they make in 197 or 1994 or 2002 when just about, i'm sorry, people doesn't like to hear this but just about and i'ms can going to sta it would have been good for the new york

city to editorialized. did you no that just about every intel agency across the globe said sat sat had who, mr. president, that's a slam dunk, a year and a half after 9/11. hillary clinton was there, george wncht bush was there, you were there, i was there. i was wrong on the iraq war, just look all of those people that i mentioned. >>. 735% of americans were. joe biden needs to say i was there during the crime bill. i have seen imagine ma'am ravaged by crashing. it's oosy for you to sit

interest behind yfr baptop brning why are soy latte judging beit's free to joyed. >> in is where husband age bkts a been fit. hoop sass something look nk i wouldn't have done it different then as to your point. i do think the prp is nnl that in in all those experiences with wrong call will get me closer to a right call. i don't think that there asing in he can't do it as motional, hey don't japan pu and he is

message why would was some move aej and experience and losing two chrn and loding a wife and and maybe woo shouldn't get you to a place where in and -- admits that hoose mad but be you no, johnson i've never soon ones that been about the past. they're allfuture. if joe biden i don't know is always apologizing i oat will

the fact is in today as democrat party, he is out of step where the activist lft. f but in terms of the october he is historically throughout hits kroor. . -- the one thung that is most surprising in this run-up tothe him going out and come p appropriation claiming i'm the most progressive democrat you've seen, the floating of the balloon hooves going to put staesy abrams on the it be thos

are not the acts of a confident candidate defense of krout about hts history and he is making the race about that history. who if transings toward running a winning. i think the sort of "inside baseball" folks, are we watching those? i don't think so voters across america are following that specifically. weep saw that with hug gate, which was ridiculous. and everyone realized that, especially people who vote in america. >> and, by the way, a lot of people will be angry that just said that. >> sorry, it true. >> i will tell you from day one, you were warning democrats against kavanaugh.

you were right about kavanaugh and i think you're staking out a position on biden, that's your analysis. but you have a history of certainly knowing what the american people think on these issues a lot more than blue check marks. reverend al, i always enjoin talking to you because you get it. you get politics, you've been around on it on the grass roots level, a national level. my feeling from hearing you is that you sort of -- you agree with bill clinton that it's better to be strong and wrong than weak and right. and joe biden, while you disagree with joe biden on the crime bill, you wouldn't want him spending the rest of his campaign apologizing about the crime bill. apologize, get it behind you, talk about the future and take it to trump. >> and i also think we've got to irfair and as we analyze this,

when we go back to '94, that also goes to 2004 and 2008, where bide i don't know stood are we -- we used to call this many limousine liberals, they can go back 30 years but can't go back ten years because then he have to where were they during trade? a lot of the judgers who can't, in my opinion, stand up to judgment themselves. joyed i don't know made of these so-called self-appointed and aponted progressives have been appoint

appointed. so before we start judging, let's also look at who the judge is. >> you're right. joe biden was the first to move a lot of people inside the obama strags, i railroad in rool time they were enraged at joe biden he was per sewn toward the president. barack obama did not want to be pushed there and he was given the cold sholder by stephs that part one of it. part two, if you're going to talk about what he did on the judiciary committee with aajoe

biden leading the fight against william reasonagainst antonin and biden was a pit bull. these lately liberators are within jackson why you're not allowed to. you got to talk about all you and it and in context, if you are a democrat, if you a interrogatoryive, oo did a lot more good than he did bad. contacts, it's the word of the day on sesa"sesame street." >> be stay with us. it very well said. >> why, thank you, mika.

>> still ahead on "morning joe". >> here is my view. if somebody commits a sear i don't see crime be sexual assault, murder, they're going to be punished. this may in jal for 10 years, 20 years, 50 years, their whole lives. s that what happens when you commit a serious crime with you but i think the right to vote is inherent in our democracy, yes, even for terrible people. >> that was bernie sanders earlier this week. yesterday he doubled down. we'll dig into what he said and brac down the arg-- break down s on all side of the debate. what if other kinds of plants captured it too? if these industrial plants had technology that captured carbon like trees we could help lower emissions.

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that's the rev show tomorrow night at 8 p.m. joe, the president of the united states i believe was walk watching our segment about otto warmbier and the allegations in "the washington post." he tweeted this, "no money was paid to north korea for otto warmbier, not $2 million, not anything else." then he goes on to make wild claims about president obama, that we won't get into. "the washington post" was saying there was a letter of intent signed for the $2 billion to get otto warmbier out of the country. we hoped it was not paid, he said it was not. >> i'll sign that. why don't up send it to my treasury department, that's

awesome. great, great. send it to my attention and then get the young man out of there. so, you know, no problem with them doing that but a huge problem they ended up paying it. i'm glad the president said they didn't pay a dime. i hope sarah huckabee sanders will not be so equivocal when asked next time whether they paid the money or not. >> so, reverend, there's even a beto sighting there. >> we invited all of the democratic candidates that had announced at the time and only two showed. i wanted them to look at the race gap, when you look at economic standing, to criminal justice and there's a race gap and a class gap. even under this economic good

times the president talks about, blacks are still doubly unemployed to whites. how do we close that race gap? we need to have a real serious discussion about how we deal with that. i wanted the candidates to respond to that so that we don't have race as a marginal issue or some convenience for, as i said, for the latte liberators but something that we have a serious discussion and make it a mainstream issue so we can deal with healing the racial divide for real and not just use it as a talking point. tomorrow night at 8:00, i ask questions of every one of the candidates to be as specific as you can within an hour and weep discuss on our panel the reaction. the only way we'll get past the racial divide in this country is to take it seriously and make it an issue that we've got to resolve and not just pick at just to get votes when you want to go by a church on sunday morning. >> all right. joining us now, executive

director of the justice action network, holly harris. very, very good to have you back on the show. >> good morning. >> we want to get your take on these comments from bernie sanders. at a carally in fort worth, tex, he doubled down on every citizen having the right to vote, even if they're in jail. >> the other day i was roundly criticized for i think that every american citizen because of their citizenship should have the right to vote, even if they're in jail! if you commit a terrible crime, you're going to pay the price, but that does not mean that your right to participate in our democracy is taken away from you.

and i was roundly criticized for this but you know what, once you begin taking away somebody's right to vote, you're moving down a slippery slope. >> all right. holly, your thoughts? >> i jump forward there because it is music to my ears. we're no longer having a discussion of whether the american people are in favor of restoration of felon voting rights, i think we're talking about the degree to which we're in favor of voting rights. i think this is something that best needs. ref, you rev, you and i talked about this a lot. bernie sanders did vote for the crime bill and so i think that's something he needed to do. >> i just wanted to say, look, this is what's the great part about a primary, you get to put

out ideas and discuss it and it will play out the way it will play out. but voting in this country is a fundamental right. it is part of what the founding fathers wanted to make sure happened. so do think there as a lot more nuance in in conversation -- >> what is do this mean. >> right. i definitely want to continue to have this conversation. >> i think you're right that it nuance because you also have to dal with as do a lot, vk testimonies. they ought to be part the conversation. how do you go to family but i want to make sure they have rights, to what degree? i'm not saying they should lose their rights but we ought to be mindful about having everyone in this conversation. >> i want to ask you about kamala harris. she was asked at a town hall and

we can talk about this framing if the boston marathon bomber should be allowed to vote, which i don't think exactly who we're talking about, we're talking about non-violent offenders. but then she came out the next day and said in the town hall it's a conversation we should have. she drew criticism for that. the next day shoo said do i think people who commit murder should be deprived of their rights? yeah, i do, i'm a prosecutor. but leaving open the idea of non-violent victims, you know what prks i think we do need to have this conversation about non-violent crimes and there is

a real, true, in-depth conversation we can have. we're seeing what happened in florida with the felons now being able o and it a larger pat is such i ne for a lot of americans, as you all just brought up. reverend al, want to go back and talk about kamala harris for a minute. i'm wondering about her position as and as a strong prosecutor in the state of california that not only was loved by the latte will

be down at the l.a. prnt nt she was in her own way a uniter and not a divider. now, i'm just speaking in general election and it seems to me having a democrat who is also a tough prosecutor thats that can union oot northern california and southern california,s that somebody the democrats want in the johnson lks so we're just passing out unsolicited advice this morning on "morningio o whens that exactly the type of credentials a democrat being candidate will i think it talks to a broader

request that is really febsive o me is that we act as poe that to to say we want treated farley means we don't want trillion progressive iisism sometimes in own race, and she's were hurting people in her own race. that's her job and she should have done her job opinion we don't want the system to protect people as, we are not trying to become the just fires for criminal behavior. we're just trying to make sure that it fair and if criminals

and if somebody comes down on you, we're going to say the community is when you when you are hurting the community. >> sam stein. >> i have a question for you. it mostly a question about where advocacy groups are in terms of prioritizing mission. u know, the restoration of voter rights for people who have left jail is something that was a major focus, and there's progress made in places like florida, for instance, where the ballot initiative allowed it. but it's not done. florida legislatures are now trying to impede on some of thos about granting voting rights to thos currently ins are who is

left on a mgs that is still very much o be company motted. >> and, you know, there does seem to be this thrilled hold of progressive infectionism. and in and it's finding that sweet spot, finding that place much like we did with the first step act where we were able to get sentencing and prison refor asked. it foupd that you've got to win

if you want to be president. >> holly harris, thank you very much. and tomorrow night at 8 p.m. eastern, right here on and coming up, john delaney wants hit trum. -- trump where he tweets. "morning joe" is back in a moment. from household trash. it not only saves about 80% in carbon emissions... it helps reduce landfill waste. that's why bp is partnering with a california company: fulcrum bioenergy. to turn garbage into jet fuel. because we can't let any good ideas go to waste.

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the network operations center for comcast. we are working to make things simple, easy and awesome. we still are more than 550 days away from the election but our nest guest declared his candidacy for president more than two years ago. joining me is john delaney. in a field that's gron to 20, he was the first democrat to say he would take on donald trump for the presidency, announcing his candidacy in july of 2017. congressman, great to have you back. >> thanks for having me. >> it's latest iowa poll, the marge be of a-- margin of error.

take it or leave it there. the point being, there is a massive cluster of people, you no, you've got joe biden, o got in the race yesterday, bernie sanders occupying space at the top, mayor pete buttigieg is moving up as well. how do you, a guy who has been out there delivering his message for a couple years, how do you rise, how do you separate and get your name up higher? >> we win it on the ground. i've done 26 trips to iowa, and i think up win this with a better message, an opt mikie sherrill ic i still believe the

early states matter on the ground. >> when you go into iowa, last week we had tim rightian, congressman all also he said there wasn't a single question the snum one question you get is will there be jobsand when you peel it back, 80% of the venture capital was incested in 1.6 million people and you get 80% of our kids living in a con

congressman i want to ask about baby thing aboutest issue. it's the news of plrpt there's a process to do that if the united states and they have to find an pichl to investigate and see where that takes them. i think it the how is it ever

going it be a has to tech companies are going come. so it's a grand justice tur, an add persian gulfin communities that are considered economically struggling. we're largest buyer of goods and services in the world, the u.s. government. create a huge incentive for them to start le kating in it's one of the problems we have in our country right now, we don't. take the earned encome tax credit, which the that wouldn't

turn around. i believe as president, if i were to got those nour in 80% of the money in new companies will go to 1,500 counties. i found that process a little unseamly. if so some. but there as a whol bunchs of or besss out there, too. what my business dids focus on finance. i left money to pa in they need people to want to invest in those communities. >> you just mentioned you're a businessman. i want to lead into and so i

want to talk about a wage gap, in particular with african-americans. wage gap in that nature? >> the wage gap kind of correlates to the skills gap in some ways. if you want to address the kind of racial injustice in this country, we have to fix public education. and we have to think about how public education is funded. that's the number one issue that drives so many of these inequities, that poor kids and people of color who disproportionately live in poor neighborhoods fundamentally have schools that don't have the kind of resources and aren't delivering the kind of public education the kids deserve. it just perpetuates this. >> what's the idea here behind the hashtag unfollow trump we talked about in our tease? >> it was a simple thing, right. i think a president should spend every day trying to unify the

country. i think they should take an oath as part of the oath of office. i swear never to divide the american people. i think this president wakes up every day and thinks about how to divide us and uses twitter to do it. if you want to start rejecting all this terribly divisive politics, just unfollow the guy. he obviously has a huge ego about this. he berates them for dropping followers. send him a message where it hurts. >> you don't think he would wake up and rank cable news shows? >> it seems like he decides which one of you to go after. it's a serious issue. i've always thought the tone at the top really matters. when you're running a business, the tone that you set as the ceo of the company matters to your employees. and i think it's the same thing with the president. right, he could be or can be the ultimate role model for this country. right, but he's obviously not doing it. >> john delaney, candidate for

president, thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me. >> john lithgow has played all kinds of roles during his long career. add bill clinton to that list. we talk to the tony winning actor about a new broadway play about the clintons. you might take something for your heart... or joints. but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in clinical trials to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

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president trump's decision to pull the u.s. out of a trans-pacific partnership is turning out to be a big win for japan. "the los angeles times" reports the white house is scrambling to undo the damage caused by trump's quick withdrawal, which has put american businesses, particularly american farmers, at a significant disadvantage in the asian markets. meanwhi meanwhile, japan has reaped some of the biggest rewards from trump's trade policy, signing deals to lower duties and significantly increase its imports, while the u.s. engages in tariff fights with the eu and china. trump's attention has now turned to japan as prime minister

shinzo abe arrives in washington for a two-day summit where trump is demanding negotiations for a bilateral free trade agreement on the threat of increasing tariffs on japanese automobiles. a japanese official tells the "washington post" the move could be a turning point in the two leaders' relationship. one of the president's strongest over the last 2 1/2 years. and we're back in two minutes with a packed 8:00 a.m. hour, including trump's reaction to biden entering the 2020 race, and one member of congress saying that members of the trump administration should be put in jail if they defy congressional subpoenas. there are people out there

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no collusion. and also no obstruction because the statement was made and the attorney general, you know, understood it very well and he read it and he made a decision right on the spot. no obstruction. >> the attorney general of the united states is of the view that obstruction of justice can only occur if you're interfering with a criminal investigation of yourself. but that's not what the obstruction statute says. and that's not what law enforcement believes, and that's not what prosecutors do. prosecutors prosecute people who interfere with government functions. that's what the president did by obstruction. >> boy, he's smart. >> that was fox news judicial analyst andrew napolitano. in stark contrast to president trump, who says attorney general william barr made the decision right on the spot to overlook a

dozen instances of obstruction as discussed in robert mueller's 400-page report. trump also said last night that he believes barr will do what's right and go after trump's perceived enemies. interesting given the decision that was made about a terrorist in the past 24 hours. we'll get to that. good morning. and welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, april 26th. along with joe, willy, and me, we have nagts nal affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc john heilman. he's the co-host and executive producer of showtime's "the circus." renowned ad man. >> he's renowned. >> and political commentator donny deutsch is with us. you know what -- >> also we're going to add master chainsaw repairman as well. >> i'm just reading. okay.

republican strategist and msnbc political analyst susan del persio. associate editor for "the washington post," eugene robinson is with us on this friday as well. we've got a lot to get to this morning, joe, including more from the president's interview with fox news appearing to blame hillary clinton for the russia investigation. >> also attacks john mccain. >> fantastic. that must be in that list omarosa was talking about, that list of crazy things you pull out when you want to deflect and present to america. plus the coast guard lieutenant. this is what i was talking about. accused of planning to murder politicians and journalists will not face terrorism-related charges and could soon be released. >> of course the judge in that, we'll talk about that in a minute, but the judge still is very, very fearful that this man who was plotting to launch a terrorist attack and kill nancy pelosi and chuck schumer and most of the members of the

democratic caucus who were running for president, and as well as media members, barr will not charge them. the u.s. attorney will not charge this terrorist with acts of terrorism or a plot to actually kill people that run america's government i guess because they don't support donald trump. it is shocking. we'll talk about that in just a little bit. but i guess barr doesn't think that you're a terrorist if you try to kill people that don't support donald trump. >> we're going to have legal analysts talking about that. this is obviously deeply personal, and we'll get to that part as well. and not only did north korea send american college student otto warmbier back to the u.s. in a coma, but the regime sent a $2 million bill for hospital care. the unanswered question is, did the trump administration pay? but we begin this morning with

former vice president joe biden receiving a warm welcome to the presidential race yesterday in the form of congressional endorsements. ten members of the house and senate mostly from pennsylvania and delaware quickly endorsed his white house bid while a few more attended a fund-raiser for him last night without officially backing him. biden also got abearly endorsement in the first primary state of new hampshire from popular former governor john lynch. and cnbc reports that new york's current democratic governor andrew cuomo is throwing his powerful fundraising network behind biden. biden said he did not seek the endorsement of another prominent democrat. >> you are the best choice for the democrats in 2020. why didn't president obama endorse you? >> i asked president obama not to endorse and he doesn't want to -- whoever wins this

nomination to win it on their own merit. welcome to delaware. >> all right. so willy, a pretty good day yesterday for joe biden. >> yeah. i mean, he had the response to the video was foogood, the roll was good, the president of the united states welcomed him to the race, calling him sleepy joe biden. we saw the first criticism of him from bernie sanders, who put out a fund-raising email, kind of going after in a sideways way joe biden for having a fund-raiser with corporate lobbyists as one of his first acts of the campaign. we heard from elizabeth warren going after joe biden for his, in her view, support of banks in the financial crisis and passing along legislation, a public fight with him over a couple of decades. we're seeing the opening salvos of what will be the progressive lane owns do far by bernie sanders and occupied by elizabeth warren going after joe

biden, who's going to try to occupy on a bigger space the trends toward the senate. >> he has been the only of the 20 democrats running for president, he's the only one who has put donald trump at the center of his campaign. and there's -- one attribute that you have to give biden credit for yesterday was that video made very clear what the central ration nail for his kand da si is, and that's to his credit. there's no one who walks away from that video not understanding what that video is about, i'm the guy who can best take on donald trump and we must do it to stave country. >> the anita hill story that joe biden called to apologize to anita hill, she didn't accept his apology and said he needs to apologize to women across america because he may have hugged them inappropriately. >> well, i don't think that -- joe biden, given his long career

in government, he cannot start this out on an apology tour. he can say, explain the decisions he made when he did and what's happened since and how if you want to say he's evolved or, you know, gone on a listening tour or something like that, but he cannot start apologizing out of the gate. and to john heilman's point, i think that gate he came out of going against donald trump and showing that he is the one to take him on and that strength was kind of part of that argument. you can say everything else you want about my record, but you cannot deny, at least right now, i am the best one to take on donald trump. >> and donny deutsch, that does seem to be the belief on v by many people. what do you make, though, of joe biden calling anita hill, anita hill not accepting the apology and saying he needs to apologize to the rest of the women in america because of the stories that came out before? should biden just move on now

that he's made the apology call? >> it's not necessarily this specific issue. how is he going to address all of the -- some of the things in terms of banking, criminal reform, and i think the answer for biden is he's not a flip-flopper if age 47, change your views at 48, a 77-year-old man, just like 60-year-old men, act differently than 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago. it's okay to say i made mistakes then, i thought of the world this way then, this is the way i think now. i think americans are evolved enough to understand when you have a 40, 50-year record you'll be able to look back and say as a 43-year-old guy, that was pretty dumb, and i think that's going to be the playbook across the board. what was so strong about him yesterday, and yes, he is the best or certainly one of the best anti-trumps, both in terms of stature -- i always go what do they look like up on stage against trump? he's large, has a great

presence. but the one word that came to me yesterday that is to me from a tactic point of view or human description point of view, is compassion. that's what came across as a human being. it's so ironic we talk about him always giving hugs. that was a big hug to the country in effect. to me, if that compassion shows through in everything he does, whereas i have not felt in the gut about any of the candidates emotionally as much as i felt yesterday. that was a right-brain move. now, of course going forward, all the left-brain chunks in terms of policy have to be in there, but for him you could vot knot have started at a better place. >> totally agree. there are two candidates that stand out to me as ready to face trump. president trump is responding to the core message of former vice president zwroe biden's candida candidacy. he tweeted about him and questioned his intelligence and then trump told fox news that he disagrees with the premise of

biden's announcement video. >> we are in the battle for the soul of this nation. i believe history will look back on four years of this president and all he embraces as an aberrant moment in time. >> when biden makes this statement, talking about the soul, i mean, the soul, take a look at the obama -- you know, i heard somebody say before that there was such dissension and division. people forget. there was tremendous division during the obama administration. tremendous division. we actually have great spirit right now. you know, just to finish that off, we are a country respected again. >> everything he just said there was actually false except for the fact, mika, that there were divisions during the obama era, but he took a bad situation and made it worse. >> and gene robinson, i think what trump's tweets and his sound bites on fox about biden's

rollout video gave us the chance to show america exactly what he was talking about and put those sound bites side by side, and hear biden talking about the soul of america and choosing his words so carefully and then an idiot riffing with absolutely no intelligence or preparation base behind it. what do you want america? here it is. side by side. take a look. take a listen. make your choice. >> yeah. if you were, you know, in court, you know, a defense attorney or whatever you'd say, your honor, i rest my case after those statements. >> yeah. >> but of course joe biden can't rest his case. i think it was -- i really liked the announcement video. i thought putting the crisis, you know, at center stage, we must get rid of donald trump, he is doing tremendous damage to the country, potentially lasting damage to the country, if he's

allowed to stay in office an additional four years, it will be much, much worse. and, you know, to paint himself as the guy who can stop the madness, who can end this, and who can get us back on a course where we can have intelligent debate about health care policy and about foreign policy and about defense spending and all the things that we should argue about rather than dealing with this, you know, this lunatic in the white house. this family of grifters that have attached themselves like leeches to the white house. it's incredible. >> awful. >> so i thought that was good. and i agree with something that donny said, you can picture joe biden up on the debate stage next to donald trump, you know,

giving better than he gets, right. he's not going to shrink from trump. he's not going to look small. he's not going to look insubstantial in the least, and he's not going to look intimidated. and, you know, that's important. i think those sort of nonverbal cues are important. >> still ahead on "morning joe," it is a shocking story on two fronts. first, a man allegedly drew up a hit list of politicians and journalists, and second, that he may soon walk out of jail. we'll run through those disturbing details and what may be behind them straight ahead. but first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> good morning to you, joe and mika. we are watching the severe storms from yesterday, the ones that produced that deadly tornado in louisiana with the two fatalities, that heading to the east coast today. a lot of heavy rain in the ohio valley, not a fun morning commute for new england with light rain, but it's this afternoon, we'll get a little bit of warm humid air pumping up

the eastern seaboard and when the cold front comes through we'll get a few isolated strong storms, maybe an isolated tornado or two, philadelphia, richmond, virginia, eastern north carolina including raleigh. we'll keep an eye on this afternoon. as far as the rain and thunderstorms go, we'll get the airport delays almost like last friday, dealing with a similar scenario, and especially this evening in areas of the northeast. that'll where we'll have significant delays, possibly some cancellations. and how about this weather headline? i thought i was done with nonsense. winter storm watches, minnesota and wisconsin, maybe a period of moderate to heavy snow as we go through portions of saturday afternoon and evening. as far as totals go, areas of the blue here, a little bit of purple, 3 to 4 inches of snow, not far from chicago. we'll keep an eye on that this weekend. lit melt in a hurry but a cruel end to your weekend in areas of the midwest.

for today, middle of the country, you're fine. watch out for those travel issues on the east coast. new york city's one of those spots we could see some airport delays. heaviest rainfall will be this evening. timing of that about 25 p.m. to about 8:00 p.m. then it should clear out nicely for saturday. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ be right back. with moderate to severe crohn's disease, i was there, just not always where i needed to be. is she alright? i hope so. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of crohn's disease after trying other medications. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions,

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the coast guard lieutenant accused of planning a terror plot against politicians and journalists and tv hosts will not face terrorism-related charges and could be released. the associated press reports that a federal judge said that 50-year-old christopher hassan is eligible to be released on bail as he awaits trial on drug and firearm charges because prosecutors have not charged him with any terrorism-related

offenses. u.s. district court judge charles day said yesterday he still had brave the concerns about hassan and could not justify holding him. he could be released in the coming days after the judge sets conditions. judge day said he will hold another hearing to work out a supervision arrangement that will include electronic monitoring and other measures before hassan's release. in new court filings this week, federal prosecutors argue that hassan, quote, continues to pose a serious danger. however, his attorneys say the accusations against him are overblown. joining us now, state attorney for fooepalm beach county, dave aronberg. >> dave, help me out here, this guy was found with a massive weapons cache, silencers, which obviously are used only for the purpose of quieting guns when you're shooting people. he had a manifesto, was inspired

by a norwegian terrorist who gunned down 70 children in a summer camp, a white nationalist, and he had nancy pelosi and chuck schumer and democratic candidates running for office as well as tv hosts, yours truly, on that list. he had the means to carry out his manifesto, his murderous manifesto, and basically he wanted to decapitate the democratic parparty. how does a judge first of all let him go? and secondly, how does attorney general barr sit on this case and not let his u.s. attorneys charge this guy with something else? >> yeah, joe, the reason why so many prosecutors have dark circles under their eyes is because we lose sleep over cases

like this. here you've got a self-professed white nationalist with a stockpile of weapons and ammunition with his target list and manifesto, and the judge himself said he needs supervision, he's got grave concerns, he needs eyes and ears on him like nobody's business. but the law is what it is and he's not being charged with international terrorism, he's not even being charged with violent crimes which could keep him behind bars. as far as whether he should be charged with domestic terrorism, there is no separate federal statute on domestic terrorism, and that's something congress perhaps should address. >> coming up on "morning joe," a look at some of the stories making headlines this morning including updates on the terror attack in sri lanka and what may have sparked that devastating fire last week at the notre dame cathedral. we'll be right back. ♪ limu emu & doug

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i receive travel rewards. going new places! going out for a bite! going anytime. rewarded! learn more at theexplorercard.com. we're following a lot of other news this morning. officials in sri lanka lowered the death toll from sunday's easter suicide bombings to 253. the country's health ministry revised the number by nearly a third saying the error occurred due to difficulties identifying victims. sri lanka is bracing for the possibility of more attacks over the next few days as the prime minister says militants who may

have explosives remain on the loose in the country. investigators in paris believe that a short circuit near notre dame's spire or negligence by workers doing renovations may be possible for last weesk's fire. while nothing has been ruled out, officials say attention has been focused on electrical installations near its spire including a series of six midsized bells. police also found cigarette butts on the scaffolding. a spokesman for the company that wrecked the scaffolding denied the claims. >> willie, we lost a great one last night in basketball. >> yeah. i wish mike barnicle were here to talk about this. john hon"hondo" havlicek died yesterday at the age of 79. he was voted one of the greatest 50 players in nba history. havlicek's steal of hal greer's

inbound pass helped the celtics hold off philadelphia in the 1965 eastern conference final, one of the most famous plays in nba history and create adderallying cry that was as "the boston globe" puts it, quietly repeated by countless numbers of aspiring numbers in pickup games across the country for years after. >> gets it out. havlicek stole it! it's all over! it's all over! johnny havlicek! >> havlicek stole the ball, the great johnny most on the call, one of the most accomplished players in boston history, the team winning six championships in his first seven years after he was drafted out of ohio state in 1962. he also helped lead the buckeyes to the 1960 national championship in college, mvp of the '74 finals. he set celtics career records for points in games. every one of his 16 seasons was spent in a celtics uniform, 13

of them as an all-star. again, john havlicek died yesterday at 79 years old. and disney and marvel's final installment of the avengers series on track to shatter box office record this weekend. "endgame" reportedly has raked in at least $43 million from opening night overnight showings across the country, a record for the studio, as overall ticket sales expected to hit $260 million to $300 million in the u.s. alone this weekend. the film potentially, they're saying, could earn $1 billion globally in less than a week. so, joe, i was online last night trying to get tickets for george and his buddy to see the movie today, and i was flipping through the show times and there was one in my neighborhood -- there's my tweet -- at 2:00 a.m. this morning and it was totally sold out. at that point, there were a couple seats in the front row. but they were gone quickly after. it's a thee-hour movie. think about this.

starts at 2:00 a.m., some previews, the movie starts at 2:15, people walking out of the theater at 5:15 a.m. on a friday morning just to see the movie. they might hit a billion dollars this week. >> i looked at theaters within 25 miles of here and they were almost all sold out. >> totally. >> i finally found something at 8:00 a.m. on saturday morning. this was three days ago, 8:00 a.m. on saturday morning. but, you know, i think probably the reason why it will shatter all records, the reviews are over the top. >> yeah. >> i mean, 97%, the early reviews from critics who have seen the film, the early audiences talked about it being extraordinarily emotional, a great surprise ending, and people crying four, five, six times during it. it is a three-hour movie that,

you know, usually for this sort of movie is, you know, an hour and 50 minutes. this will be a huge one. >> coming up, hillary and clinton, a new broadway play taking a unique new look at the former first couple. we'll talk to the stars lori metcalf and john lithgow just ahead on "morning joe."

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since 1821, the supreme court has recognized the inherent right of congress to hold individuals in contempt and to imprison them. that was reaffirmed in a case in 1935. congress has the responsibility and i would say the obligation to hold individuals in contempt who do not comply with a lawful subpoena who do not produce documents and we ought to be prepared to imprison them. >> that was rhode island congressman david siciline

saying it's time to hold trump officials who defy subpoenas in contempt and take them into custody. president trump meanwhile is contradicting a portion of the mueller report and the sworn testimony of his former white house counsel. tweeting yesterday, as has been incorrectly reported by the fake news media, i never told the then white house counsel don mcgahn to fire robert mueller even though i had the right to do so. if i wanted to fire mueller, i didn't need him to do it. i could have done it myself. nevertheless, mueller was not fired and was respectfully allowed to finish his work on what i and many others say was an illegal investigation. many lies and untruths in that tweet. but the mueller report for which president trump refused to testify under oath states, quote, on saturday, june 17th, 2017, the president called mcgahn and directed him to have

the special counsel removed. mcgahn was at home and the president was at camp david. in interviews with this office, mcgahn recalled that the president called him twice and on both occasions directed limb to call rod rosenstein and say mueller had conflicts that precluded him from serving as special counsel. president trump says he will fight efforts to have mcgahn tell his story before congress. joining us now, democratic congresswoman robin kelly of illinois. we want to get your reaction first to those -- actually the congressman who thinks that we should be putting members of the administration in jail if they defy subpoenas. >> i agree with my colleague that we need to do what we need to do, whether subpoenas, hearings, fining people, and if we have to put people in jail. i think that we should do that. >> but is that the process?

is that the next step when -- just explain to me how this works. i want to know what constitutionally, what according to the letter of the law, what according to process is the next step if sps are defied as it appears to be happening. >> well, i think, and i'm on an oversight and reform, we changed the name, so chair cummings is my chair, and we'll have to gather and talk about what's the next step if they still disregard our subpoenas and what we're going to do in hearings. >> congresswoman, new york city native, welcome back home. >> thank you. >> happy birthday coming up. >> thank you. >> there seems to be this internal debate in the democratic party about the question of impeachment. some of your fellow democrats in congress right away after the release of the mueller report said we need to drive toward impeachment, there are impeachable offenses in this document, but speaker pelosi, i

don't know if you were on the call, but she shad the meeting saying pump the brakes a little bit. the more we scream about it, the more we help donald trump. have you seen impeachable offenses in the mueller report? >> i think there are, from my understanding, impeachable offenses, but i agree with speaker pelosi. i think we need to do our due diligence. special counsel mueller started it, and i think we need to have our hearings and our investigations and then see where that leads us. >> do you accept the special counsel's conclusion, at least in volume one of the mueller report, that he could not establish a conspiracy, a criminal conspiracy between the trump campaign and the russian government? because some democrats are disputing that even. do you accept his conclusion at least on that question? >> he's very well respected, so i guess i want to see an unredacted report before i say, you know, i agree with him 100% or disagree with him. i would like to see the full report.

>> all right. so here's now some news from president trump saying he's changed his mind about going after his 2016 democratic rival hillary clinton. last night appearing to blame her for the russia investigation while also suggesting that people in the obama administration who were quote a lot higher up will also be found responsible. in an interview on fox news, trump began by explaining his november 2016 statement that he would not ask the justice department to investigate clinton, which is in contrast with the report from special counsel mueller which says he did just that in numerous public and private attempts with then attorney general jeff sessions. >> when i won, they were all saying, lock her up, lock her up, and i said no, no, let's get on with life. that was different. it was like right after the election, you want to get a new page and turn -- turn over a new leaf. but now what happened is, fairly shortly after that great evening, they started coming at

us with the insurance policy. and everything they did was so dishonest. and then we really started looking into a lot of things like her deleted emails and acid washed emails, which is unheard of because of the expense of doing it, and how she got away with it, how her lawyer got away with it. in the meantime, look at what she's done, how she's destroyed the lives of people that were on our campaign. she's destroyed their lives. i really say, now we have to get down, because this was a coup. this was an attempted overthrow of the united states government. these are sick people. these are sick, sick people. so let's see what happens with mccabe and comey and brennan and clapper. they were in on the act. and let's see what happens, and let's see how high it goes up, because it's inconceivable when it goes to clapper, brennan, comey, these people, i would imagine some other people maybe a little higher up also knew

about it and maybe a lot higher up. >> congressman, i'm going to ask you to respond to what the president is now saying. in this way, you're going to object and say that he's nuts and that this investigation of the investigators and barack obama, hillary clinton, this is all fox news fodder and shouldn't go on. i ask you those v though as a practical matter, if tomorrow the attorney general says, you know, the president wants me to investigate hillary clinton, we're opening a formal investigation of hillary clinton, barack obama, jim brennan, jim comey, all of the above, right, what can democrats in congress do about that if anything? >> well, frankly, because he's the president and barr is, i don't know how much we can do about it. i don't think much. but i think that we can still keep pushing what we're doing and his investigations and subpoenas and hearings and those kind of things. >> so that actually raises the question i wanted to come back to, because mika asked is youyo

question, if the president continues in the posture he's currently adopted, we're not responding to any of these subpoenas, we're going to defy every element of democratic congressional zroefr oversight in the investigation going forward, i know you said we would have to talk about what we might do. what are the actual tools at your disposal? what will you be talking about? what are the options available to you you have to decide if you're going to use to enforce the subpoenas? >> we'll be talking about fines, we'll be talking about actually putting people in jail that are not cooperating. and i think that we have to g to that extreme, that we should go to that extreme. i don't think anyone really wants to do that. i think the american people deserve the truth and that's all we want to do. we're just doing our jobs and we're in our right to do that. that is our responsibility. but if they don't cooperate, then i'm for putting people in jail. >> donny, you perked up when you heard acid-washed emails. i recall many of your style choices in the '80s. >> i would say more current than that.

i saw donny in some acid washed jeans last weekend. >> and my cowboy boots. we subpoena him, doesn't come forward, when you say p ut them in jail, which i don't see that happen, what would be the process, does the sergeant of arms come in at that point? how would that happen? >> i can't tell you exactly how that would happen yet. i just know that it's a tool in our toolbox. and again, i don't think that that's something cummings or any of the other chairs that are closely involved with this, whether it's, you know, adam shift or maxine waters, the six chairs involved with this investigation, but that's what we have to do or fines, that's what we can do. >> the tough reality is they can kick it down the road, and that's something democrats will have to manage. >> right. >> congresswoman, we were talking in the break about your district, kankakee, for example, a place we both know pretty well. when you go home on a break like this, what are people worried about? what do they ask you about?

what's top of mind in this country and district? >> my district is urban, suburban, and rural, so it's a little different depending on which part of my district that i'm in. the economy is always number one and health care. people are very concerned about that because they see this president and my republican colleagues are trying to take health care away, depending on where we are. in the kankakee part of my district, the more agricultural part, they're concerned about, you know, how farmers are doing and trade and tariffs and things like that. so it's really multifaceted what people are concerned about. >> cover a lot of ground in that district. >> right. right. >> all right. congresswoman robin kelly, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> and now to breaking news on the u.s. economic growth for the first quarter. cnbc's sara eisen is at the new york stock exchange with the numbers. sara? >> mika, good morning.

surprisingly strong take on the first quarter for economic growth in this country. 3.2% growth. that was higher than most economists were expecting. the average estimate was 2.5% that we'd get. it's particularly impressive if you think about what happened during the first quarter. we had a five-week government shutdown, which did slow economic activity. we had some freezing cold temperatures during a seasonally weak period, and yet a really strong 3.2% growth number. now, to pick it apart, it's not all rosy because consumer spending, which is what you really want to see grow, that's the engine of our economy, only 1.2%. business investment also cooled down, so you could raise questions about whether the trump tax cuts are still working because you didn't see much of a boost there in spending. however, you did get it in inventories and trade, which could be temporary phenomena. wall street looks that the number as backward looking but it shows we entered the year with a lot more momentum than we

originally thought, so potentially good news there. we'll see what the numbers start to show. i wanted to mention amazon because this affects consumers everywhere. we got earnings numbers and they announced that prime shipping is no longer going to be two days. it's now going to be one day in term os-that free perk for amazon shoppers. we don't know how exactly many there are. some estimates point to 100 million, but the point is some of the key commerce growth is slowing in amazon and they are going up against walmart, target, and everybody else, so they're trying to be more competitive. one-day shipping for consumers. good news in my household. i'm sure yours too. >> cnbc's sara eisen, thank you very much. donny deutsch, what do you make of those economic numbers? >> it's important to remember the economic numbers were soaring in november when the democrats were seeking seats. what's important for the democrats is to strait spraepar words and wages and health care for the economy.

you could say the economy is good for them and not for you, and obviously if the economy falls that's a double down favor. >> okay, donny. coming up, our next guests account for four tony awards, nine emmys, and three academy award nominations. our conversation with lori metcalf and john lithgow for their new broadway play "hillary and clinton." that is next on "morning joe."

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a new broadway play that takes place in an alternative universe considers what could have happened if then presidential hopeful hillary clinton after losing the iowa caucuses considers accepti inin barack obama's offer to become his running mate. in an act of desperation, she decides to call in her husband, bill, to help save her campaign. joining us now, the stars of "hillary and clinton," two-time tony award winners. good to have you both. the warning was, don't call bill. >> don't call bill, whatever you do. the warning comes from mark

penn. don't call bill whatever you do. >> that's mark in the play? >> what happens? >> i call bill. >> and i arrive like that. >> and the rest is -- tell us about the play. >> well, the rest is speculative history. it's kind of our playwright, our marvelous young playwright has done a riff on that historical moment, the 2008 primary in new hampshire. when hillary was running against barack. and, so, we -- laurie and i make absolutely no attempt to impersonate them at all. >> oh, that's so fascinating, though. >> it liberates us and liberates the audience. we don't have to perfectly resemble them and it becomes a play much more about the public clintons and, in fact, much more than just about politics. >> we get to spend some time

with them in their marriage behind closed doors. >> oh. joe? >> i was going to say, on behalf of all southerners, thank you all for having an alternative universe where you did not have to fake southern accents. >> we're very relieved ourselves. the clintons are so extraordinary. it reminds me of the line from "jesus christ superstar," i don't know how to love him. there are people at the same time so grateful for their service to america. hillary clinton was a wonderful secretary of state and bill clinton, in fact, i impeached him, voted to impeach him, you know, 20 years removed was a far better president than we've had in quite some time. there's still this conflict at the heart of the clinton story. talk about how that plays out in this act. >> well, bill and hillary, they are a unique marriage, as all

marriages are unique. they have a kind of passion for public service, but in their way they approach it quite differently. if you think about bill, it's, i feel your pain. he trades in emotion. you think about hillary and it's, i have a plan. it makes for very interesting emotional and political conflict. >> on the set of this hotel room that we're occupying for the 90 minutes of the show, hillary finds herself torn about which path to go down in this -- for this new hampshire primary. does she follow bill's lead or does she follow mark's and numbers, let that play out. bill tries to introduce -- >> show the parts of yourself that you're ashamed to show. >> yes, which she can't bear. >> it's like a political, romantic triangle. >> we talk about how that's sort

of been beaten out of her. >> yeah. it reminds me of what i heard about "the americans." everybody told me i had to watch "the americans." they would say it's not a spy story. it's the story of a marriage, the story of a relationship. this sounds so much like that. this isn't about politics. this is about two people who love each other struggling through terrible times in public and behind closed doors. >> it's a quirky and funny play that turns into an extremely emotional play. i don't think i've ever been in a play where the audience brings so much of their political and emotional feeling into the theater with them. i mean, we all have a strong connection with these two people. and laurie and i get to play on that. >> so, you're talking about, and you're portraying two people who have been with us for nearly 40

years. by the way, they're never going away. we all know that. and yet what we know about them is nearly all public perception, but what you're talking about is portraying people in the intimacy of a moment in a marriage that is fraught with tension and a strong woman, when pushed, says, call bill. how does that tension, that dynamic tension work within the framework of this play? >> well, you just see a very intense moment in a marriage that's full of conflict. of what i've done recently, i compare it to "the crown," which is another piece of work about very public people whom everybody are obsessed by. but you never see the other side. you never see the private side. and there's something very compelling and theatrical about

that. >> that is true. it makes for a very theatrical evening because the stakes are really high, where this play takes place. and over the course of two days. and they get down and dirty with each other. it's not things we haven't, you know, imagined conversations between them, but there's some low blows. >> so that brings to mind the one moment during the campaign where i feel like the masks came off or the suit of armor came off and she answered -- i think it was a child's question and she answered, the answer was love, that love is so hard. i just wonder what you learned along the way as you guys tried to duke it out and figure out how difficult it must have been to be hillary. >> i can't imagine. i can't -- and even -- and because this is set on the campaign trail, it's

unfathomable to me that people can put themselves through that, watching it presently. the year and a half that it takes of being under that amount of scrutiny, the stamina that it takes. i can't imagine. >> and you think of the things they've been through. bill's impeachment crisis last november for -- november two years ago for hillary. i mean, these people have endured just real political and emotional traumas in their lives. and at every point they've had each other. so, this is a kind of examination of that. i don't know. i have a long marriage myself and, to me, that was as much a reference point as all the reading and research i did about the politics of that moment. >> the new play is "hillary and clinton." it's great to have you on "morning joe." that does it for us this

morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much new hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle live from d.c. this morning with a little trump unleashed. the president calls into his friend sean hannity's fox news show, are you ready for this, for 45 minutes, blasting the investigation of his campaign team. >> this was a coup. this wasn't stealing information from an office in the watergate apartments. this was an attempted coup. >> now saying robert mueller was not an impartial investigator. >> i had a nasty transaction with him and all of a sudden he's my prosecutor. very, very unfair. >> and once again back to an old favorite, attacking hillary clinton. >> look at what she's done, how she's destroyed the lives of people that were on our campaign. she's destroyed their lives. >> and how about a privacy