that's it, that's all. "andrea mitchell reports" starts now. >> good day. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. right now, the president is about to speak in indianapolis, the vice president at the national rifle association convention. we will join that. we begin with politics where the gloves are already off. the president and joe biden throwing political punches at each other while the rest of the democratic field decides how to handle the new biden candidacy. mr. trump kicking things off this morning from the south lane

lawn. >> mr. president how do you see joe biden? >> i think we beat him easily. i am a young, vibrant man. i look at joe, i don't know about him. i don't know. >> in the last hour, biden responding to the president, labeling him sleepy joe during an appearance on "the view." >> look, i, everybody knows who donald trump is. the best way to judge me is to watch. see if i have the energy and the capacity. i mean, it's just, you know, this is show me business. >> you weren't sleepy joe? >> that's the first time i've ever been referenced that way by anyone else. it's usually, you know, at the other end, hyper joe. >> and joining us now, that was

on the view, joe biden. joining us now, mike, who has been covering the biden campaign in new york and here in washington, former congressman joe crowley joining us as well and margaret carson from the daily beast and political reporter eugene scott. margaret, to you, on "the view," joe biden going back against the president being asked about the president's criticisms and also being asked importantly about women who have said that he has gotten into their space inappropriately, saying he will apologize put doesn't think he has anything to apologize for. also being asked about anita hill. a complicated conversation there in front of a friendly audience on "the view." >> we thought hisses best day was going to be the day he announced but the day after is not the best day in any way. he should say i'm not going to

criticize trump for his youth and inexperience as, you know, a line regan used. >> regan against mondale in the 1984 debate. >> yes. for those who, in their 70s, to have a fight over who's younger seems to be a diverse. everything that could come out about joe biden seemed to come out on "the view." i don't think the handsy thing, let's not al franken joe biden. let us push that aside. there's some very serious things. why did he wait until the day before he announces to call anita hill. >> he called her some time quite a bit before and it only came out the day before because "the new york times" was publishing. >> it comes out -- >> that's 22 years after. >> he had given a very lame excuse. i wish i could have given her a better hearing. he's the person who could have given her a better hearing and she's not accepting this apology is not a surprise. there must be a stubborn streak in him that didn't do it 22 years ago after it happened.

and he wanted to be, you know, one of the other things, this might show something about biden that's not good, which is why did he want to be so much one of the boys there? why couldn't he have shown some courage and defended her and brought on the other women? he wanted to please john danforth. it's bipartisanship run amuck. >> i covered that hearing and recall very well that on that sunday, there were three days of the critical hearing, friday, saturday, and sunday, and there was overnight polling and the polling indicated to the democrats that people believed clarence thomas over anita hill. a classic he said/she said and they basically cut short the hearing. she had witnesses. she had a polygraph. none of that was introduced. joe crowley, he was the chairman. again, he and all of the -- all male judiciary committee, ted kennedy, who couldn't ask tough questions because of his own background, a lot of people were caught in a very difficult

situation but anita hill was, indeed, according to many people who covered it, victimized by that experience. >> no question. and we see that even further today, 20 plus years on, that this is still something that simmers in the backs of people's minds. it wasn't one of joe biden's greatest moments, quite frankly. at the same time he juxtaposed that with the video yesterday and, you know, we know we have a massage nist in the white house, and i think comparing even the frailties of joe biden -- >> beyond misogamist -- >> what this president is about, sometimes we maybe lose that sight to the trees. >> i was going to say, 12 -- 12 accusers before he was elected, two all whiof which he has deni and payoffs according to testimony to at least two women, again that he denies, but plenty of testimony in the michael cohen case.

>> margaret and i talked about this before the show is that getting these things out, have these questions asked early, not that they're going to go away, but at least they're confronting it early on and at some point get to, again, the issues that matter today in terms of the economy, health care, and other issues that are important. also the soul of america. what was brilliant about yesterday's video, charlottesville happened, it happened in our country. the president responded in the way in which he did and that is not reflebtive of who we are as a country. that's what joe biden i think eloquently laid out yesterday. the day after is always tough. >> i want to bring you in, eugene, and lay out a couple other things for our view percent. having watched "the view" it was clear to me that joe biden when he came out on that set, with all women hosts, was a little awkward and uncertain, do i hug these people whom i know well, and he said, you know, when asked about the hugging and that whole issue, he said, even when i came out here i didn't know quite whether to hug you, you're

my friends, but i didn't know what to do, even with meghan mccain. he waited for her to approach him first. these are moments he's got to get past. there was this incredibly emotional moment with meghan mccain where she replayed the moment when her father was dying and he comforted her and he said, she said he's been her grief counselor and he talked about his empathy and dealing with cancer and that people come up to him all the time and that is the joe biden that connects with people all the time. i've seen it myself over the course of 40 years knowing this man. >> absolutely. and that's quite frankly one of the ways biden is going to have another advantage against trump. trump is not known for being the comforter in chief. and his charlottesville comments which trump even butchered again today by defending robert e. lee, helped remind people how poorly he responds to tragedy -- >> explain what he said today. >> we weren't talking about charlottesville until joe biden reminded us how poorly trump

respondeded a then trump told the media he was actually calling the protesters who were defending robert e. lee, very fine -- >> the statute. >> the statute. wanting to preserve that statute. >> i think we now have our tape ready. >> i was talking about people that went because they felt very strongly about the monument to robert e. lee, a great general, whether you like it or not, he was one of the great generals. i have spoken to many generals here right at the white house, and many people thought of the generals they think that he was maybe their favorite general. people were there protesting the taking down of the monument of robert e. lee. everybody knows that. >> and those comments, what the president demonstrated, was an inability to understand why so many americans would have problems with robert e. lee, who led troops and tried to destroy america to keep black people enslaved. joe biden would have never

butchered something like that. he has demonstrated he can connect with people and seeing him help someone mourn, being there as someone who has mourned himself, is what's going to endear him to people. >> well, and, in fact, when you look at the video from charlottesville, it's not silent protesters about a statute. it's people marching with -- >> nazi banners and jews will not replace you, wanted to play a little bit of joe biden on "the view" today when asked about anita hill. >> i did not -- since i had publicly apologized for the way she was treated, i had publicly said it, i've publicly given credit for her, the contribution she made to change this culture in a significant way, that what i didn't want to do and, you

know, i didn't want to, quote, invade her space. i spoke to some leading women advocates in this area, and i said, could you see whether she would take my call. >> yeah. >> i was grateful she took my call. >> i think what she wants you to say, is i'm sorry for the way i treated you, not the way you were treated. i think that would be closer. >> well, but -- i'm sorry the way she got treated. in terms of i never heard if you go back and look what i said and didn't say, i don't think i treated her badly. >> mike memoli, i was there. he had the dwav gavel and he was the chairman. yes there were terrible questions asked by arlen specter and other republicans, but he's still speaking in a passive voice. >> that's right, andrea. of course the biden campaign would rather there be no discussion of anita hill at this point. given the makeup there on the

set of the view all women they were practically begging him to make a more direct apology to try to move beyond this issue and he's clearly at this point unwilling to do so. i mean margaret, you referred to it perhaps as a stubborn streak. i think joe biden is a proud person and he genuinely believes he did everything he could do within the rules of the senate. that's just not an explanation i think that passes muster today. i want to read to you an interesting comment from this fund raiser that joe biden appeared at last night in philadelphia. i was one of the few reporters who was allowed inside to hear the remarks. it was very interesting moment there at the end to a supportive group. joe biden saying, i'm going to tell you exactly what i think. i'm going to be completely honest with you. as the old joke goes, no one ever doubts i mean what i say. sometimes i say all that i mean, but i make no apologies. what you saw there again today, is joe biden not willing to two there and make that full apology. joe biden's bluntness and forth

rightness a strength and weakness as he goes forward with this campaign today. >> do you think there's any consideration that he actually will do a full-on apology and try to put this behind him? >> andrea, that's a great question. he did say when pressed on "the view" he would be open to the idea of sitting down for an interview with anita hill together, that's something that the campaign, of course, will probably consider. you know, at the end of the day, he's been given every chance over the past few years here, especially as we move towards a potential campaign to account for this and he's using the same language in terms of explaining his behavior. i don't know we will see him willing to go forward. >> thanks so much to all of you. mike memoli and joe crawly and eugene scott. president trump is about to speak at the nra's annual convention in indianapolis. joining me is fred guttenberg, whose daughter was killed in the stoneman douglas school shooting? parkland, florida, dedicated his

life to pursuing gun safety reforms. what would you like to say to the president if you could? >> well, first, congratulations on your award, andrea. >> oh, fred. thank you. >> you know, here's what i would say to this president. or i'll tell him what i would hope for. his governing philosophy is so easy to understand it's summed up in the word hate. and what i would say to him is, please don't go out there today and talk about why everyone in that room should hate people like me, people who are working to lower the gun violence death rate in this country. people who don't want to have any impact on any legal lawful gun owner, but we want to keep the guns out of the hands of killers. what i fear is, he is going to go in that room and rather than give a responsible argument on why we should all work together to lower the gun violence death rate, he is going to lead a

cheerleading session and get people amped up to go out and attack those of us who want to do something about gun safety. because that's what he does. he's an overgrown child and he doesn't know how to handle moments where responsibility -- responsible behavior would be the norm. >> what should he know about jamie and her classmates, the surviving students and the way they have mobilized, the way they have organized? they've changed the law in florida. remarkable achievement. and the conversation around america. >> listen, the kids are fighting for their lives. every one of those kids understand it was a matter of feet or seconds or it could have been them. and they get it. they lived it. they had falling dead bodies on them. they were running from the sounds of bullets. they are fighting for their

lives. and all they want is not to interfere with anybody's rights to weapons, they want to interfere or get involved with having the ability to fight for their safety and keep guns out of the hands of killers. the truth is they understand what we all should understand, and it is this, when you're fighting for gun safety all you want to do is bring down the ability of those who want to harm themselves or someone else you want to make that harder. and the nra, where the president is about to speak, the truth is, they should be leading the fight for gun safety. if they believed what they said, which is, guns should only be in the hands of legal lawful gun owners they should be doing everything possible to ensure that happens. but they do everything to put up roadblockses in the way. the kids see through that and i

see through that and we're not going to let it happen. >> the president and the nra are in a different posture than they were before. the nra the last year or two has lost a lot of power, lost a lot of money. >> yeah. >> they got swept up in the mueller investigation because of their involvement still being investigated with russia. >> yeah. >> do you think the nra is as powerful on capitol hill as it used to be? >> no. no. listen, unfortunately there are some weak legislators who still look out to the nra more than they should. the president right now is going to lead a cheerleading session for them. but the nra is weak. within the past hour, butina the russian spy just received a pretty aggressive sentence for her efforts -- >> i just want to say that legally she wasn't accused of spying of being a foreign agent for russia, but not specifically spying. but you're absolutely right, talk about that sentence because we were going to report on that as well. >> yeah.

she received a pretty aggressive is sentence for her efforts to infiltrate, connect with, the nra and be part of the russian effort to sow chaos in this country. you know, it's an effort that our president still defies, but it's -- it's the convergence of events that are happening, get to the -- why the nra is weakening. they got involved with the wrong partners. one of them being russia. they have gone ahead and they have paid themselves the leadership an abundant amount of money and they've gotten involved with some very expensive contracts that were not in the best interest of their membership and they have not existed to serve their membership. that is coming to haunt them now. and so you have the lawsuits. it's like a circular firing squad with the lawsuits that are going on. they're losing money because businesses and banks and insurance companies are cutting off ties with them. and they are weakening.

states and cities are passing legislation that is gun safety legislation and the only response the nra has, because they used to be able to stop it, now their only response is to file lawsuits. i want to encourage every governor and every mayor to pass legislation and encourage the nra to sue you. they can't afford to do it and it will bankrupt them. >> guttenburg mentioned maria butina has been sentenced to 18 months, including time served, so she already served nine months i believe, so that would go against it, but she's not getting the sentence that she wanted which was time served. >> correct. >> and deportation to russia. fred, thank you so much for being with us. we always are so grateful to you for your perspective, painfully, the pain you've gone through and the way you've turned that into a political action is really astounding and inspiring. thank you. >> thank you.

>> and joining me now while the president makes his thank yous to that audience, the nra audience, joining me now is peter alexander, our white house correspondent, jeff mason, reuters white house correspondent act the south lawn this morning in republican congressman david jolly, msnbc contributor, former republican as well, left the party since, peter alexander, first to you, the president and the nra, this is a very tight relationship. it's indianapolis. mike pence was on stage. no wavering at all in the president from the president's perspective on gun policy in this administration. >> yeah. andrea, you're right. that was punks waited by a tweet from the president, the nra, despite what you heard moments ago, the president said is getting stronger and stronger right now. he said that their support has been vital to his maga, make america great again, philosophy. he's trying to deliver a pep talk for a group that has been

facing turmoil as we detailed moments ago. the democratic controlled house only recently obviously pushing back on the violence against women's act or moving forward with the violence against women's act which will make it difficult for those people who have committed crimes against women to buy guns. that's something that nra had been fighting. so this is a moment where the president and his vice president just moments earlier are coming in saying hey, guys, we're on your team, need your backing and we're going to stand with you the rest of the way. it was little bit striking, though, because the president has said, you know, in the past that he would be tough on the nra, that he really wanted to revisit a lot of these issues in the wake of the school shootings but here today you can see where his allegiance lies. >> with the base. exactly. jeff mason, you were out there asking questions today when the president denied what the mueller report reported, alleged obstruction, clearly a case that couldn't be prosecuted, involving don mcgahn and he said

he never told don mcgahn to fire mueller. may not have used the words but ample testimony from don mcgahn to the contrary. >> there is. what was interesting that he said that he has said before is that he didn't need to tell don mcgahn to fire mueller because he could have done it himself. he wanted to emphasize the fact that he had the right to fire mueller but he didn't and he made a point of emphasizing the fact that his administration cooperated with that investigation and for that reason, he doesn't see any real reason to cooperate with the democrats on the hill pushing now for subpoenas and further conversations with the people who are quoted in that report. >> and david jolly, when you look at what the president is doing as a former member of congress, for him to say that congress has no right to any documents, that no testimony from current or former aides can go forward, saying that don mcgahn can't and they're going to go to court, no tax returns to the ways and means committee, what legal ground does he stand

on? >> very weak legal ground. history proves him wrong. look we know the power of the executive, but if you look at the withholding of testimony and documents the two cases that apply most likely to this current situation is u.s. v. nixon which established executive privilege works you can have it but you can't have it in the case of investigations in the public interest. you do have to turn over tapes and documents. also the bill clinton impeachment case where bill clinton sought executive privilege to protect himself and the first lady, hillary clinton, from testifying, they lost that case in federal court as well. ultimately the clintons didn't appeal it to the supreme court because they knew they would likely lose. donald trump is receiving poor legal counsel if he thinks he will win this case in the courts. >> well how does he say also i'll go to the supreme court and stop impeachment? there's a separation of powers. the supreme court has no authority over whether or not the house will start impeachment hearings. >> he said on the white house lawn today he's a student of

history. he's certainly not a student of the constitution. there is absolutely no footing for him to suggest he will go to the supreme court over impeachment. look, the president is fighting back as best as he can and i think at the end of the day politically they're trying to extend this as long as they can because i think the longer this goes, it gets them closer to november of 2020 and he's in a safer political environment because this becomes white noise if you will, which is why house dems should move very quickly, clear the deck of this matter by labor day so that you're not -- your presidential candidates can talk about immigration, health care, taxes and the policies they want to run on. >> and at the courthouse, at the federal course, where maria butina was sentenced, let's recap in case we muddied it up, did we get it right? 18 months including time served, contrary to her request for time served and deportation back home to moscow? >> that's correct, andrea. the judge sentenced her to 18

months, she will get credit for nine months of the time she's already spent in jail. the significance of this is that this is exactly what the prosecutors asked for. the defense asked for no time. the judge really -- there were two starkly different views of this case presented in court and in court papers and the judge really came down wholly on the side of the prosecution. you know, the defense tried to say look, she was a naive college student who failed to fill out the proper paperwork. her motives were pure. she wanted to improve relations between russia and the united states. the government and the judge agreed, this was a sophisticated russian influence operation. she wasn't a spy in trying to steal national security secrets but she was cultivated america's image to improve russian relations that undermined national security. >> thanks to ken. let's give a listen to president trump responding to some of the issues raised in the mueller

report. >> started two and a half years ago. on that great november 8th. that was a great day. remember that day. a year and a half we have one called november 3rd this time. get ready to vote. you better. you better get ready to vote. it's all called draining the swamp and we are doing it faster than anyone ever thought possible. very proud of it. around the world, america is respected again because we are finally putting america first. in a long time. our economy is now the hottest anywhere on the planet earth. just this morning, we learned

that the gdp smashed expectations with the economy growing at an annual rate of 3.2% in the first quarter, always the worst quarter for whatever reason. 3.2. and if we kept the same interest rates and the same quantitative easing that the previous administration had, that 3.2 would have been much higher than that, but they hadn't hit these numbers in 16 years. we had a tremendous increase in inventory investment. you know what that means. and listen to this, a very big increase in net exports. isn't it about time? isn't that nice?

we've added almost 6 million jobs since my election and if i would have said that during the campaign, all of those people back there, we call them the fake news, they wouldn't have believed it. they're fake. they're fake. blue collar jobs recently grew at the fastest rate in more than three decades. nearly 5 million americans have been lifted off of food stamps since our election. wages are rising fast, and the lowest paid workers are making the biggest percentage gains of all an it's nice to hear, it's about time. unemployment recently achieved

its lowest rate in 51 years and very shortly, it should be its lowest rate in the history of our country. african-american, asian-american, hispanic-american, have reached the lowest levels of unemployment in our history. america's future has never been brighter and yet democrats have never been angrier, especially now that their collusion delusion has been exposed to the world as a complete and total fraud. >> and so you can hear the president continuing his theme which is that the mueller report was fraud and that the russian

investigation was a delusion. back with us now, nbc's peter alexander at the white house, jeff mason, reuters white house correspondent, who is out questioning the president this morning, former republican congressman david jolly and msnbc political contributor, nbc's intelligence and national security reporter ken da lane yan at the courthouse and joining us here, national security analyst clint watts, former fbi speshts agent. let's get to the final point the president was making about the collusion delusion. speaking about volume one, that's the way it was framed by the attorney general in his four-page memo three weeks earlier, that's hardly what you get from reading volume one of the mueller report. >> not only that, is it not what you get, but a free pass to russia and open door for everyone after this. if you look at that part one, it is a blueprint for how you go in, divide up a country like the united states, get it fighting amongst itself, elevate your

foreign policy positions, with leaders that you have helped elect, and then create chaos for two and a half years. by the president not acknowledging that it even happened and focusing on collusion delusion and saying we know russia interfered in our election and never let anyone do this to us again, we are saying this may well happen again because we're not going to do anything about it. >> and there has been reporting this week that kirstjen nielsen could not convene a cabinet meeting to have a systemwide government-wide attack for defensive action against russia and other countries that tried to hack us and also manipulate public opinion because it was so offensive that mick mulvaney said back off, the president doesn't like to hear about that, because it reminds him of questions he thinks about the legitimacy of his own election. >> what was novel about what the russians did, they attacked every aspect of our election, either through going at our

electoral process or influencing the public. that requires that government has a unified approach all of the governments so that we can keep this from happening again, whether russia or china as the president likes to talk about, or iran that does influence activities. if we can't talk about it in the white house we can't execute that. it's impossible to do. what's interesting the institutions after a delay after the inauguration have moved around. the fbi has a foreign influence task force, general naksoni took offensive cyber operations an kirstjen nielsen trying to bring these together and the attack goes against the indiana election infrastructure. how are we going to defend that? how would indiana know? that falls into dhs. >> the general heads the national security agency, but also cyber command so that is a unified approach. >> right. >> and -- >> he owns that part of it. it's just interesting that they basically can't go to the white

house to get this done. they have to move around the spokes of the wheel. they can't go to the hub. that's an inefficient way to do things. it creates the big question all the time which is, do all of the parts of the wheel know what the other parts of the wheel are doing? if you don't it creates immense vulnerability. the other part of the mueller report we saw not only does he not acknowledges this, but oftentimes his deputies don't do what he says or avoid what he's nudging them to do. if you're a foreign influence, doing foreign influence operations you say the president may not be aware of what's going on and when he tells his deputies they might not do what they want. this allows me to run wild inside the united states. >> the point you make, david jolly, after 9/11, the reason to bring everything together, all of these agencies into homeland security, which was an awkward fit for some and took a while to work out and to create the dni and bring all the intelligence agencies together in that

fashion, was to eliminate what they call the stove pipes that prevented each agency from talking to each other. where would you want a unified approach, if not against cyber attacks against our country? >> well, that's right. and to your point and to clint's point this is where the president seemingly always fails to rise to the moment or the opportunity. the top line narrative from the president of the united states on this entire matter needs to be condemnation of russia and a conversation with the american people about how we will address this going forward. if it requires reorganization or if it requires the cabinet hearing that apparently secretary nielsen was asking for, that is the leadership moment. not to continue to talk about collusion while you're being investigated or doubt the investigators. we see this time and time again, we saw it with the charlottesville comments. we see it today. the economy is the only message the president should be talking about, but he can't talk about it without also taking a swipe at the independence of the fed

and the reporting of the media. this is a president who continues to fail to rise to the moment. >> it's -- it is so striking, he has the 3.2% gdp growth number and why isn't he out there campaigning on that. jeff mason, you've covered the white house for quite a long time and you've seen other chief executives in how they handle these kind of issues, this president seems to get in the way of his own message. >> well, and i think it's a good point in terms of what he's focusing on. i think it also struck me from the part of the remarks you just played how the nra is a good chunk of his political base, and he's just giving what is essentially his normal political stump speech that is becoming his stump speech actually, going into 2020. talking a little bit about the economy al know not emphasizing it based on what he could say would be his accomplishments but it would be better if the fed continued to intervene, but also going into russia collusion.

you at least -- the part -- the beginning of the speech that we heard he hadn't started talking about gun policy or any of his policies for that matter. it was a kind of a hey, the greatest hits of president trump's campaign re-election argument. >> well, i want to thank you, jeff, and peter, and david, but before i let you go, peter, i want to show everyone this wonderful piece today in "women's wear daily" on our white house team. peter and kristen and chief white house correspondent hallie jackson and kelly o'donnell and geoff bennett and all of the ways in which they work 24/7 on broadcast on cable, on-line, in all the media and we're just scoring so many triumphs and working so hard, thanks to you for everything we've been doing. >> we learn from you. thanks, andrea. >> thanks again. more coming up on maria butina the russian agent who conspired

to infiltrate the nra and whose prison sentence was just handed down in the last hour. stay with us on "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. i had a few good tricks to help hide my bladder leak pad. like the old "tunic tug". but always discreet is less bulky. and it really protects.

'cause it turns liquid to gel. so i have nothing to hide. always discreet. but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. my gums are irritated. i don't have to worry about that, do i? harmful bacteria lurk just below the gum line. crest gum detoxify, voted product of the year.

it works below the gum line to neutralize harmful plaque bacteria and help reverse early gum damage. gum detoxify, from crest.

ten detailed acts of obstruction of justice. robert mueller's report lays out a roadmap for impeachment proceedings against this president and challenges congress to do its job. i'm tom steyer and we can't let this president destroy the public trust, break his oath of office and get away with it. congress has to do its job and hold him accountable. please call them at this number. tell them to get going. on the same day president trump addresses the nra, russian gun rights activist maria butina as we have been reporting has been sentenced to 18 months in prison. 30-year-old butina requested a sentence of time served and deportation to russia.

she pleaded guilty in december to conspiring with a senior russian official to infiltrate the national rifle association. nbc's intelligence and national security reporter ken is with us again from the courthouse. also joining me, msnbc national security analyst clint watts, former fbi special agent. ken, what happened in court with the judge coming down hard on her with the prosecutors against the defense argument she was basically just a -- a tourist or a young student. >> yes. >> interested in learning more about the united states. >> that's right. andrea, the defense and the prosecution agreed she had pled guilty to this crime but agreed on nothing else about this case. the prosecution said this was a serious case of harm to u.s. national security. she had been working on behalf of this russian alexander toreshin a government official, trying to cultivate influence within the nra and republican party circles. the defense said no, she was

simply a student trying to improve international relations and her only mistake was failing to register. the judge took a look at the evidence and said the defense is wrong. this was a lot more than a simple naive student and basesing this on the massive record of evidence in this case on communications between butina and her handler. at one point, butina suggested that the russians might even have influence over who would be appointed secretary of state in the trump administration. there's no evidence that that's actually the case but these are the kinds of conversations she was having with her russian handler about how they could influence the trump administration. they were both gun rights activists and nra members which is curious, because, you know, there are no gun rights in vladimir putin's russia and the judge really said look, you know, this case was dangerous to u.s. national security. she adopted the prosecution's view. the prosecution presented an affidavit from the former head of fbi counter intelligence, robert anderson, and he said that this was a classic russian

intelligence spot and assess operation by butina. she was identifying people who could later be recruited by russian intelligence. she wasn't a spy in the traditional sense or stealing secrets but trying to bunnish russian influence outside state department channels and that was a dangerous thing. a lot of people look at his affidavit this week and say this is what the russians were doing with the trump campaign and the trump transition outlined in the mueller report, andrea. >> and clint watts, i assume you know robert anderson. we've had him on our program coming from counter intelligence and the fbi. he laid out exactly what has been described in the mueller volume one, about how many different effort, multiple efforts, chris wray talked about this on the council of foreign relations as head of fbi, not that everyone was a major player. some of them were more better trained and more effective or not, but she was part of this massive effort to gain influence

in america. >> that's correct. the russian influence operations have three levels. there's the state to state, the party to party, and the people to people aspects of it. butina was really part of that party to party relationship. let's go in and let's work with groups that are sympathetic potentially to our cause. she picked two. the nra and gun rights movement. the other part the national prayer breakfast. let's build relations with them to elevate a pro-russian position, pro-russian foreign policy position. she knew what she was doing, it talked about the need to essentially hide the kremlin hand. it's not seen as propaganda. this is a very classic approach. it's an agent of influence. we oftentimes get confused in the u.s. because we watch a lot of tv about spies and the red sparrow and those sorts of things and that's different. an agent of influence are to go in and ser repetitiously under the cover of these organizations look like they're elevated a foreign policy position. it works two ways. not only the kremlin going you go infiltrate the united states

but people developing levers, toreshin and butina, being able to develop policy and go back to the russian government and saying look at what we have done and we have access and benefits them in both directions. >> fascinating case. thank you so much, clint watts and ken delaine yan at the courthouse. on defense, president trump denying reports his administration paid $2 million for the release of otto wa warmbier. former security adviser under president obama ben rhodes joining me next stay with me on "andrea mitchell reports." hey there people eligible for medicare. gimme two minutes. and i'll tell you some important things to know about medicare. first, it doesn't pay for everything. say this pizza... [mmm pizza...] is your part b medical expenses. this much - about 80 percent...

medicare will pay for. what's left... this slice here... well... that's on you. and that's where an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company comes in. this type of plan helps pay some of what medicare doesn't. and these are the only plans to carry the aarp endorsement. that's because they meet their high standards of quality and service. wanna learn more? it's easy. call unitedhealthcare insurance company now and ask... for this free decision guide. inside you'll find the range of aarp medicare supplement plans and their rates. apply any time, too. oh. speaking of time... about a little over half way and there's more to tell. like, how... with this type of plan, you'll have the freedom to choose any doctor who accepts medicare patients. great for staying with the one you know... or finding... somebody new, like a specialist. there are no networks and no referrals needed.

none. and when you travel, your plan will go with you- anywhere in the country. so, if you're in another state visiting the grandkids, stay awhile... enjoy... and know that you'll still be able to see any doctor who accepts medicare patients. so call unitedhealthcare today. they are committed to being there for you. tick, tick, tick, time for a wrap up. a medicare supplement plan helps pay some of what medicare doesn't. you know, the pizza slice. it allows you to choose any doctor, who accepts medicare patients... and these are the only plans of their kind endorsed by aarp. whew! call unitedhealthcare today and ask for this free decision guide. call unitedhealthcare today my mom washes the dishes... ...before she puts them in the dishwasher. so what does the dishwasher do? cascade platinum does the work for you, prewashing and removing stuck-on foods, the first time. wow, that's clean! cascade platinum.

...when a plan stops being a plan and gets set into motion. today's merrill can help you get there with the people, tools, and personalized advice to help turn your ambitions into action. what would you like the power to do?

president trump today was denying that the administration paid north korea to get american college student otto warmbier out of north korea after a report that the north koreans had demanded $2 million for warmbier's medical care before the regime finally released him in 2017. they had been holding him for a year and he came back in a coma, dying only days later. asked if the u.s. had paid what in essence would have been ransom for violation of long-held american policy the president stood firm. >> we did not pay money for our great otto. there was no money paid.

there was a fake news report that money was paid. i haven't paid money for any hostage and i've gotten approximately i think it's 20 or 21 out. we don't pay money for hostages. >> joining me now is ben rhodes former deputy national security adviser in the obama white house and now an nbc political contributor. what do you think is going on there with the north koreans putting out this story that money was demanded? we don't know if anything was paid. >> well, i mean the report seemed pretty definitive that money was paid, and, you know, first of all the idea that you wouldn't pay a ransom, second you wouldn't pay for medical bills when they essentially killed this young american tragically, and the last piece this is connected to the fact that you remember that trump standing in vietnam said that he took kim jong-un at his word that he knew nothing about what was being done to otto warmbier which flies in the face of everything we know about north korea. kim jong-un, who trump has been

lavishing praise on knew about the conditions of otto warmbier and knew that his life was in danger and this whole thing, again, points to how much trump has been duped repeatedly by the north koreans and by the north and kim jong-un. >> going to vladivostok and his first meeting with vladimir putin, running to the russian embrace, as a strong signal to the president, you know, give me what i want. lift some of those sanctions. stop demanding complete denuclearization. come back to the table or else i've got vladimir in russia to take care of me. >> and we saw the north koreans test a weapon for the first time since the beginning of these trumps. >> we don't think it was a ballistic missile. >> it wasn't. everything north korea does sends a message. and look where we are, they have done nothing to role back their nuclear program, their missile program.

we had these huge spectacles of trump embracing kim and now we see kim pushing back. >> i want to ask you about rod rosenstein in a speech criticizing the obama administration because he says the previous administration, for not doing more to make public the russian interference before president obama left office. let me play some of that for you. >> the previous administration chose not to publicize the full story about russian computer hackers and social media trolls and how they relate to russia's broader strategy to undermine america. the fbi disclosed classified information about that information to selected lawmakers and staffers. someone selectively leaked information to the news media. >> well, there's a lot packed in there. i know this -- your administration, your previous administration, has said that there was a balancing act here, president trump, candidate trump

was campaigning on how there were efforts to rig the election. there was concern that he would say the election was fixed if you went public. but could you have gone public more forcefully, could the president have said more forcefully something about russia. were you push backed about to take it up on the hill. >> what we did revealed to the public that russia was interfering in the election. we did that the same day the access hollywood tape came out. >> and wikileaks was dumped. >> and we continued to talk about this. i think you can say we could have talked about it more. we tried to get a bipartisan letter with the leaders of congress, mitch mcconnell refused to sign a letter, but we did that warning. rod rosenstein works for a president of the united states who continues to deny that this even happened. and in the same speech, he praised president trump for his

fidelity to the rule of law. rod rosenstein is going to have to figure out how to live with himself writing a memo about james comey. it's president trump who, by the way, is also, i believe, sending signals that he would like the russians to do it again in the 2020 election. >> he -- do you think deliberate signals asking them to interf e interfere? >> when you have the president's attorney, rudy giuliani, saying there's nothing wrong with receiving information from the russians, why would you not think that this crowd, once again, would want to benefit from that kind of interference? they're doing nothing to prevent it. all reports are that even the outgoing secretary of homeland security wasn't allowed to talk about this with president trump.

i think we have to take very seriously the fact that they're holding the door open for the russians to do this again. >> it's pretty alarming. thank you very much, ben rhodes. we'll leave it there for now but will follow up with it. and breaking news in the case of robert kraft right now, tammy lighter is in west palm beach, florida, and lawyers have been fighting to suppress the video evidence of their client. i understand it was a pretty contentious court hearing today? >> reporter: they just broke for lunch a few minutes ago. the defense has said they're going to subpoena 30 people, unclear if they actually will, but as you know, that is just heard of. that doesn't happen in murder cases. so far the only person they've called to the stand was a detective who's provided quite a bit of color of what was going on inside of this massage

parlor. he talked about an early bird special. another thing that he described was a group of men showing up to the massage parlor in a golf cart and coming out and doing a touch down jesus as they left. the detecti they tried to poke holes in the detective's testimony. today's hearing is really all about the video. video that allegedly shows robert kraft naked, receiving services inside of this massage parlor and that's the crux of everything. how was this video obtained and stored. that's what today comes down to. andrea? >> thanks so much. and we'll be right back. you might take something for your heart... or joints. but do you take something for your brain.

with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in clinical trials to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. my gums are irritated. i don't have to worry about that, do i? harmful bacteria lurk just below the gum line. crest gum detoxify, voted product of the year. it works below the gum line to neutralize harmful plaque bacteria and help reverse early gum damage. gum detoxify, from crest.

the latest inisn't just a store.ty it's a save more with a new kind of wireless network store.

it's a look what your wifi can do now store. a get your questions answered by awesome experts store. it's a now there's one store that connects your life like never before store. the xfinity store is here. and it's simple, easy, awesome. and thanks for being with us. follow the show only and on twitter. and i'll be back, filling in for chuck todd hosting "meet the press." and here is ali velshi and stephanie ruhle for "velshi &

ruhle." >> we came because we wanted to congratulate you on your lifetime achievement award. >> here's one of the reasons why andrea mitchell gets a lifetime achievement award, she's filling in on a show when someone is away on sunday. it's never done for andrea. there's always work to be done. >> that's what we hope. >> that is amazing. when i feel badly about working extra, i'm going to remember that andrea fills in for people. >> it is friday, april 26th and we're live in washington, d.c. let's get a little smarter. >> it's under assault -- it's under assault but not when we're here. they tried for a coup, didn't work out so well. and i didn't