that will do it for me on this hour of "weekends with alex witt." i'll see you at noon eastern. now, it's time for "up with david geron." good morning. ♪ >> this is "up." i'm david gura. we begin with the deadly synagogue shooting in southern california. four victims have been identified, including the woman who was killed. and officials are calling the shooting a hate crime. >> i can only tell you we have a fatalit fatality. it was a hate crime. and that will not stand. >> i will bring you the latest from california. breaking news this morning on the mueller report. attorney general bill barr may be a no-show at this week's scheduled house judiciary committee hearing on the investigation. why the attorney general is

threatening to cancel his appearance. and for the third year in a row, president trump ditched the correspondents dinner for a make america great again rally. >> she doesn't get it. she doesn't understand me after all these years. she's becoming too particular. i'm jealous. sarah, you're fired. >> president trump called out several candidates by name or nickname. he accused the democratic national committee of playing favorites of joe biden over bernie sanders. >> this is no time for petty divisiveness. it's a time to stand together. >> worships gathered on at a synagogue, a gunman opened fire.

three congregants were injured and one woman was killed. a manifesto found was similar to the man accused of attacking two mosques in new zealand last month. >> i want you to know, this is not poway. the poway i know comes together in an interfaith event. we walk with our arms around each other. and we'll walk through this tragedy with our arms around each other. >> president trump addressed the attack twice yesterday. this is what he said last night in green bay, wisconsin. >> our entire nation mourns the loss of life, prays for the wounded and stands in solidarity with the jewish community. we forcefully condemn the evil of anti-semitism and hate, which must be defeated. >> cal perry joins me now from

p poway, california. what are folks waking up to this morning? >> just 18 hours from the shooting. the investigation getting under way. a 19-year-old white male making his way into the synagogue behind me. not just shabbat, the holy day of the week in judaism, but the last day of passover. the synagogue was full at the time. the gunman opening fire with an ar-15 rifle. more on that as the investigation gets under way. there was something that stopped that gunman from shooting. whether his gun jammed or if there was an interaction with a customs and border officer. we know that officer was able to fire at the gunman, missing the gunman but hitting his vehicle. the gunman ringing 911 as he left the synagogue, reporting he

was responsible for the shooting. police were able to pick him up. one of the questions is this online profile. not only does it have shades of the new zealand shooting but the tragic shooting in pittsburgh at that synagogue. the shooter wanting to live stream the events of yesterday. unclear why that didn't happen but we'll hear from authorities about that today. describe where you are, again, 20 miles northeast of san diego. >> this is a middle class area, described by the congregants. the synagogue behind me opening in 1986. and congregants saying they've never been through anything like this. this was the end of passover,

the highest and most important prayer that you say in judaism on the last day of passover, to remember family members who have died. the congregants were inside the synagogue behind me. and gun violence. we heard from the surgeon who is treating the victims of this shooting, telling the media, while this community isn't used to mass shootings, they are used to gun violence. there's been 100 mass shootings in 117 days, we're averaging 100 here. >> we're going to continue to bring you the latest on the attack. up here in new york, is virginia heffernan. ali nistal is a contributor to

"the nation." christina grier is a professor of political science. and pete. talk about the sobering statistics of gun violence in america. i'm looking at what the anti-defamation league has written lately. back in 2015, there were 941 of them. 2017, that rose to 1986. we're hoping to speak to the head of the ndal in a moment. put it in context, if you will. >> this is the real national emergency. i think obama, talked about this was his biggest failure. his inability to motivate to do something about gun violence. at least obama tried. donald trump isn't trying. we need to have ann attack on

this violence. there's no time to talk about except after mass shootings. >> if you're going to call it a national emergency, i think we should name it white nationalism. it's not just gun crimes. last week when we were on vacation, a guy drove on the sidewalk because someone looked muslim. they will do what they can, to kill people. they target them because of minority status. and our president, on one hand will apologize. and he said, hard to believe. it's not hard to believe. it's happening all the time in america and around the world. >> can i push back a little bit? i don't disagree that this is so racially and religiously bigoted and motivated. other countries around the world have not mixed racism. other countries around the world have not fixed religious

violence. other countries have fixed gun violence. that's something we know how to fix and what to do. and other countries have succeeded where we continue to fail. >> they have different leadership. this is a couple of day s nra's conventi convention. >> follow the money. the reason we can't seem to figure this out is because the nra owns the vast majority of the republican party and quite a few democrats, as well. there's no need for any american to have an ar-15, especially a 19-year-old. what do you need that weapon for? in a domestic context. we see time and time again, this one particular machine. has nothing to do with pistols. people grow up hunting with their families and it's a cultural phenomenon that makes sense to a lot of people going with your mom and dad and your family with a shotgun is one

thing and having an ar-15. the crux of this question, after sandy hook, when we saw people of a certain race, class and certain age. this country did nothing about it. i think a lot of us around this table recognize that our elected officials, especially people in the republican party, would sell out the citizens of this nation for the nra membership and for their "a" rating. >> jonathan greenblatt is going to join us now. he's with us from poway, california. jonathan, i know your focus has been what happens in cyberspace. and as cal perry mentioned, this shooter left a manifesto online that was similar to the shooter in new zealand, as well. what is your take away from that? >> i think one thing i'll say off the bat is we need to assist the temptation to say there's a

template. right now, there's families grieving here in poway, just like six months ago in pittsburgh. every one of the tragedies needs to be considered on its own. we all need to mourn for those whose lives were lost. that means there's no doubt that this shooter socialized his ideas and set up this attack to be optimized for social media. and the technology companies in silicon valley in general, have a particular responsibility to play, to ensure this kind of rhetoric, which previously couldn't say the light of day, stops spreading on their platforms. they literally have been exploited by extremisextremists. it's time to interrupt that and end it now. that's why the adl opened a center in silicon valley in 2017. literally, that is the front line today in fighting hate. >> i'm going to read to you from what the president said yesterd

yesterday. he said after the shooting, we'll get to the bottom of it. we're going to get to the bottom of a lot of things happening in this country. i was in pittsburgh after the shooting some six months ago that took place there. and i spoke to chuck diamond, the rabbi of the tree of life synagogue. what is there to get to the bottom of at this point? and what's your message to the president and others this morning? >> there's a few points. first and foremost, our leaders need to lead. the reasons why extremists feel emboldened is they see their talking points into the language that elected officials are using to talk about minorities and policy. that has got to stop. we need clear and consistent language about this, long before there's an incident, from the president on down. and secondly, as pete was saying just a few moments ago, we need to recognize that white supremacy is a global terror threat. and the administration, like prior administrations, has

devoted a lot of resources to dealing with the threat of islamist jihadists. and that's what we saw in colombo last week. there's a through line from charlottesville to pittsburgh to christchurch, now in san diego county. and dhs, which literally defunded its effort to tackle extremist violence and right wing violence, need to reresource it yesterday, because this violence has to stop. i will give the last word to you, picking up on what he said there. underresourced is the right word here. and the lack of focus is extreme. >> jonathan greenblatt has done a beautiful job with the adl making it specific. like many of us in the wake of the fuel ermueller report, we s radicalizing the right looks like. we saw how we have a national

security emergency here at home with racism and how that got explo exploited. a chink in our armor, tech companies, unwittingly, tech companies in cahoots are amplifying the language of our enemies. and that's the place. we can decry hate all we want. but there are specific things we can do. this $5 billion fine on facebook is a good way to start. follow the money. >> we'll come back here in a moment. breaking news from the attorney general. bill barr is supposed to testify before the house judiciary committee this week. that testimony may not happen, according to nbc's reporting. we'll tell you why, next. ries a and unrivaled network to work. the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country.

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this is "up." i'm david gura. and breaking news, bill barr is pumping the brakes about testifying on robert mueller's report. the majority wants to question him on parts of the report that remain redacted. it's unclear if the attorney general will show up on capitol hill on thursday for his testimony. nearly 1,000 parts of the report remain unreadable. jerry nadler who chairs the house judiciary committee subpoenaed the d.o.j. and they have rejected an offer

by bill barr for a less reacted version of those finds. he gave the white house a sneak peek before congress and the american public saw a single page. bill barr absolved trump on obstruction of justice even though mueller did not. let's start with you and the momentousness of this. we knew he would be called to testify. see if bob mueller testifies, as well. this effort to postpone or punt the testimony, what does it say to you about where things stand? in some ways, the chief policy has been obstruction of justice. now if they don't have that, they will have racism left on the agenda. but obstruction of justice continues. this is what they live to do. this must be extremely

frustrating just to anyone who cares about plot, that all we have over and over again, is brett kavanaugh. let's not investigate. let's not take the extra day to investigate this thing. let's move on from the mueller report. these 448 pages, let's just move on. bill barr is recently there. this is the historical thing he has to do. let's not into this any further. >> one facet of this as we mentioned, they have to have committee lawyers do some questioning here. we have to see democratic committee chairs use for this democrat. why is that a fearsome thing here? >> the congress, in general, has proven they're not very good at asking questions of lawyers. so, they're like, let's bring on lawyers to -- you know, you have to release the bats to trap the mosquitos.

i don't care what this grim misclown says. the thing i say about least, is bill barr talking about how much they love trump. it will be valentine's cards. >> we'll get that opportunity on wednesday. i want to hear bob mueller. it's time for us to hear bob mueller. until we hear from robert mueller, the rest of this is show. >> what do you want to hear? if bill barr were to sit in that seat before the house judiciary committee on thursday, what are you most eager to hear from him? >> i want to hear every person questioning him say i have read the pull report, not the reda redacted report. we know that members of congress on this committee, have not seen the full 448 pages. they're getting redacted versions. >> it's cart before the horse? >> half of the report has been redacted for me. i'm supposed to be asking you

questions. bill barr -- everyone wants to have a man look at them like bill barr looks at donald trump. >> somebody make that. >> i would disagree. i don't want anybody to look at me ever. >> you see what i'm saying? part of the problem is, we have members of congress that are on these committees who are having a full report. how are we going to have a conversation about something when we haven't seen the facts. i think rbob mueller needs to b in the seat. >> the ranking member of that committee, doug collins, did go to the kennedy building to look at the redacted version. everything is unredacted but the part on grand jury testimony. a huge question is why bill barr gave that press conference 90 minutes before it was released to lawmakers. a lot of it has to do with procedure for lawmaking. >> he wants to cover for the president that gave him the job.

he was attorney general already. this is the second time around. he was the lead counsel for verizon. he's afraid of staff attorneys. he's afraid of questions being asked. that's what it looks like. his dishonesty and lack of transparency is only overshad overshadowed by his transpare y transparency. that's the job he applied for and wrote the letter for. he has to answer these questions. he can't bow out because he doesn't like the fact that -- don't forget, during the kavanaugh hearings, they hired a lady to sit there and ask questions because -- remember that whole song and dance? it was preposterous. and they cast her aside. he's saying, i don't want to answer these questions. >> maybe they bring back the lady. >> the democrats should bring her back. >> her official name was female assistant. >> thank you for the clarification. he ditched the

correspondents dinner, instead opting for his adoring base in wisconsin. he continued to take a lap after the conclusion of robert mueller's investigation, taking jabs at democratic candidates, as well. why they not be landing with the voters he needs in 2020. does this map show the peninsula trail? you won't find that on a map. i'll take you there. take this left. if you listen real hard you can hear the whales. oop. you hear that? (vo) our subaru outback lets us see the world. sometimes in ways we never imagined.

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in keeping with what's become a tradition, president trump skipped the correspondents dinner. he spent the night with a crowd in wisconsin. he was eager to go on the offense against democratic contenders vying for the opportunity to unseat him in 2020. >> can you imagine sleepy joe? crazy bernie. you look at the candidates, right? i think pocahontas, she's finished. that was the president's first rally since the redacted report was released. and the president said the investigation was not about him. this witch hunt was never really

just about me. it was about stopping you, the citizens that rose up on that incredible november day. remember that day? president trump was in attack mode, going after the liberals and the scum and the fakers. last night's return to the badger state, we saw a president playing defense. he carried the state narrowly in 2016, by a margin of 22,728 votes. and a marquette law school poll, showed despite being a strong economy, the president has a lot to do if he wants to carry the state in 2020. 28% say they would vote for him again. and 46 say they would vote for someone else.

his approval rating is historically low as other presidents at the same point of their presidencies. there's a lot of focus on the midwest a lot of reporting in recent days. i read a transcript of moat of the speech last night. he tried to focus on trade. >> i feel because we focus on the scandals and the corruption -- >> there's a lot to focus on, yeah. >> we almost lose sense that he is a historically bad president. his numbers are historically low. he's a joke.likes him. who can beat trump?

anybody. we can roll out the ghost of fdr and beat donald trump. he has his base that he has done nothing to increase his base. if anything, he's lost them because of these attacks. one of the things that the poll shows is that the mueller report is dragging him down. his attempt to gaslight the nation is not working. >> we have a couple of ph.d.s at the table. >> i don't -- >> i will leave. >> i'll have a doctorate for pete. he used the word you a lot. he's using the pronoun in a way he hasn't in the past. you sitting here, me fighting for you. in terms of the text that he's reading, it's less about themselves. am i being optimistic about that? >> you're being extogenical.

>> i was about to use that word but i'm not a ph.d. >> jerome has a ph.d. >> dr. gore ka, as well. the mueller report is an attack on the people is a trumpian twist. we hold the base in this high regard and we're terrified of the base. you look at this thing, i think elie can fill three high school gym auditoriums, especially if you paid some people. and that doesn't mean anything. the lesson is not hit the white, working class harder. the listen we just got is that trump cheated. i feel like over and over, sh t cheating is incredibly

interesting. as a side bar, i'm obsessed with how we spend no time saying that lance armstrong's runner-up in his doping tour de france didn't target whatever. the top guy cheated. for a big cheat, not winning the popular vote. what's wrong? >> i have an associates degree. >> that's the most worrisome thing, the fact that we have never dealt with the fact that russia interfered with our election. >> despite the whitewashing and kirstjen nielsen piece that i read on vacation that she wanted to do that. >> exactly. we have not just voter suppression, but voter theft across the nation. if we're going back to the polls, this wouldn't be a huge scandal if 2016 were our only election. we're going back to the polls in

2020 and 2018. yes, whoever the democrats choose may do better in wisconsin and michigan, for whatever reasons. the reasons that people couldn't pull the lever for hillary clinton. but at the crux of the issue is that we have secondaries of state across the nation who are not seeing voter suppression, voter fraud and voter theft as fundamental dangers to our electoral politics system. saying knock of the census has not dealt with in a substantive way. >> i'm glad you mentioned that. there's been entirely too much focus on russia, trump and the election. superimportant. we have interfered in elections. sometimes it comes back to bite you, what the professor -- the doctor -- just said. if you're concerned about democracy, you should be looking at voter suppression.

particularly in the state that president trump was in last night. if you're concerned about democracy, that's where the focus should be. no matter who runs, they will have a better chance. i can't imagine anybody that didn't vote for trump says, i didn't vote for him. but this guy has impressed me with how he comes up with names to call people. he loves being up on stage and having that approval and owning that audience and calling people names. it's not going to work. it won't work. i hope. coming up more, more exigenical content. >> commentary. there's almost two dozen almosts

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because no one gets an opinion on why you shave - or how you show your skin. ♪ former vice president joe biden set to kick off his campaign tomorrow with a rally in pittsburgh. it will focus on the american middle class, as he seeks support from blue collar

workers. a new poll shows him leading trump. he will visit six battleground states in four weeks. he is the democrat ic front-runner. this may be a troubling sign for joe biden and his team. a quarter of his supporters say that senator sanders is the second choice for the nomination. the two contenders have biographical similarities. but their policy positions disagree on several key issues. there's a stark contrast how they view the 2020 election. sanders is calling for a political revolution. biden said he is fighting for the lost soul of americans. let's dig into the last point i made. the visions are distinct.

>> why are we just talking about these two candidates? joe biden, you want to go to coal country. let's be clear, the people turning out and helping democrats win, they are not the old soul of the democratic party. >> who are they? >> they are black women. we are the keepers of the democratic party. you go to a state and shush them. you pivot to your talking points about the nation, the nation. it's people of color that recognize the dangers that donald trump presents. and i'm not an ageist. >> i am. >> i know, pete, your ageism. >> we're dancing around this conversation that so many americans or possible just people in the media, are presenting this case that the only person who can beat donald trump is an older white man. if i hear the phrase, the adult in the room.

kamla harris was the attorney general of the state of california and is a senator. elizabeth warren, a professor from harvard. right? and a senator. the adult in the room. looking at you, elie. >> i didn't say anything. >> you didn't mention pete buttigieg. >> he is too busy having folksy conversations, butting up with people from chick-fil-a. >> shots have been fired. >> i wrote in the "daily beast" piece this, is someone that got elected with 8,500 votes. i am not interested in having a conversation with small-town mayors. let's be real about the conversations we're not having. they're gendered and unfair and ridiculous. we have to do a better job to say, is it biden or bernie? they have name recognition. let's talk about the qualified four senators in the race, who

are presenting real policy and not just talking points. don't worry about it, i can get the white democrats to vote for he and we can beat trump. we really want policy at this point. l let me read from here. the best argument for mr. biden that he can clear the field and take the bernie sanders and steer democrats to the center left, rather than off of the socialist cliff. they refer to him as a scranton scrapper. >> he is not afraid to curse? that should get him everywhere. the scranton scrapper. i love the pennsylvania references because they're talking about, you know, white, working class people. everything that dr. greer just said, you can't argue with it. this idea that we have to get

the hard-working old fossilized white people who are disgruntled, they're upset and afraid. the forgotten people, we have to get them back on board, it's a terrible strategy for anybody running. including the prostate primary, i'm sorry. >> send your letters to 30 rockefeller plaza. >> send all of your stuff to me at pete dominick. biden and bernie, both would be older than ronald reagan was when he finished, i think that's a problem. >> we saw this last night in the speech that donald trump made. >> didn't he say i'm the youngest person? >> i'm the youngest person. don't you have a baby? >> i have a baby. something happened. i don't think this is noble or anything. maybe during obama's presidency.

neither of these guys look like a president to me. look at camera harris. she looks like a founding father. >> you make the case she looks like a founding father? >> she looks like a warrior. >> biden, his teeth whitened and his stanning stuff drives me in sane. >> i'm going to vote for the nominee. i'm not going to try to jump up and down harder on either of these two. i'm worried about the theory of these candidacy. they represent two theories why people voted for trump. biden's theory was that they were tricked. bernie's theory was they voted for him to shake up the establishment. i think they just wanted him.

i give trump voters more credit than they do. i think they knew what they were doing. these are two divergent wings in the party. why did this happen to us? was it because people were tricked and stupid? or did people want institutional change? going forward, that is where -- if we're going to have this fight on the left, that's where we have to go. >> check out the piece in "the daily beast." d.c. turned out for last night's white house correspondents association dinner, an event that was supposed to be a reset after last year's dinner with a historian instead of a comedian. that doesn't mean that rod chernow couldn't land a joke or two along the way. >> washington committed only one blunder as a president. he failed to put his name on

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welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. president trump trump offered c pra programming to the white house correspondents dinner. he ordered administration officials to boycott the charity dinner. >> last year, this night, i was at a slightly different event, not quite the best welcome, so this is an amazing honor. >> president trump and company rallied the faithful in the badger state, his presence loomed large over the washington hilton ballroom where journalists celebrated the first amendment, scrapping the traditional roast by a comedian for some historical insight into the relationship between the presidency and the press. >> like every future president, washington felt maligned and misunderstood by the press, but he never generalized that into a gen debt ta against the institution. >> that's exactly what the current president was doing some

700 miles away in wisconsin. >> if i make any misstatement, if i'm off by just a little tiny bit, those people back there will be headlines, so i have to be very careful. [ booing ] fake news. they're fake. >> fake news! >> they are fake. they are fakers. >> joined by comedian liz winstead. great to see you. >> thank you. >> we were talking about what was said last night in wisconsin, what was said at the event last night in washington, d.c. how good is this contrast, something president trump is skillful at, elevating something to a profile. doesn't deserve. it's a dinner in a crowded ballroom in washington action d.c. but he made it for a foil for his annual rally. how useful is that to look at these two in parallel to say he's doing this as counter programminging to what's taking place in d.c.? >> i think that everything trump does is for the same people. to your point from last block,

pete, which i i think is so brill krant. i brilliant. 'not hard to rally the people cosigning on everything you side. gather and be the person he fancies himself, clever, funny and charm so long to have a rally at the same time to show the juxtaposition of size, the juxtaposition of insiders versus you're the regular people, it's fine for him. i don't know how it influences outside of the people who already agree with everything he says, but it's a good visual. >> pete was talking about the adulation he gets, how well he could play a room. what is it like to play a room like that? help us understand what that's like. >> i'm not, this is the thing, as a comic i would not allow to repeat the same jokes, have the same people some and see the same old tired. they've seen it twice as a comedian, you're done. give me something new, so that's the part that i feel a little bit annoyed by.

why are you buying this? >> well, it's different, though, obviously, with comedians, and with the comedy audiencer have sups the president versus the president of the united states. >> this president? >> almost like watching music. he's going to do the pocahontas bit, i love the pocahontas bit. >> you can't dance to the pocahontas bit. >> not yet. >> they can. they love it. they love the dance to racism but it's different, because they adore him just crushing and verbally abusing all of his opponents. i think that the idea of it being on stage as a comedian and having command of that audience, you feel so powerful and it's such a direct shot to her ego and you can have thousands of people just hanging on your every word, and that's what he wants, that's where he wants to be. he doesn't want to be in the audience at the white house correspondence dinner, where they're hanging on every insult against him.

he cannot take that, which is why he does the opposite and gets the adulation. >> can i say one thing about that? >> please. >> the difference is, at the white house correspondents dinner he gets the last word, were he to go, he gets the last word and the fact that he does not trust that he could take it over the edge and be the person they're talking about, should tell you everything. >> you remember he tried to do that at the al smith dinner that's based in new york. >> yes. >> it was a colossal fail. >> he's terrible delivering unscripted jokes. >> it's cruel and not funny so it wasn't just because he was going against hillary clinton. even cardinal dolan tapped hillary clinton on the shoulder, this is over the line. he doesn't actually know how to be funny because he just knows how to be abusive. >> and the audience at his rallies like that and wouldn't like it as much as the white house correspondents dinner. >> all of the biographies of trump, he has a weird sense of humor. tim o'brien remarked on the fact that he doesn't know how to

process humor or process a joke and that comes across as well. >> ron churnow was funnier. of course the white house correspondents dinner if george washington had valley forge or the cherry tree story. >> sure. >> the deep myth, the folklore around or the origin story of trump's hatred of the white house correspondsents dinner is of course he got beautifully, powerfully fatally roasted by barack obama. >> a man attacked mercilusly for months over a birth certificate. like the old guy we saw in the clip we played with ron churnow. >> exactly. but that was harder to laugh at. i think there was a comedy event we vnt raren't talking about, h

minaj, he hosted jared kushner, doing a show to make him realize his guilt about cha showikhasho. it was brutal. >> it's also so great because there was someone. if anybody knew anybody, like the way he laid it out. >> who could whatsapp mbs. >> it was great. >> and he looked exactly as dead as trump did at that white house correspondents dinner. >> lastly to you. >> i was just going to say the thing that i found astounding about having churnow there was they wanted to replace a comedian with a historian. if there was anyone who could have buried trump worse than a comic it's an historian. >> i'm honored to be here with liz. everybody watching should be a follower, she is individually one of its most heroic, important people in women's rights. >> wow. >> to those on twitter, using

exogesis and word that rhymes with trick, apologies for both. a lot more to get to, the latest from poway, california, where the jewish community is in mourning today. ♪ born to be wild (avo) moves like these need pampers cruisers 360 fit. with an ultra stretchy waistband and 360 fit that adapts to every wild move. plus, up to 12 hours of protection. so anything your wild child does, cruisers can too. our best ever fit is new cruisers 360 fit. ♪

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well come back to up."

we start with another tragic shooting, at a synagogue in poway, california, 20 miles north of san diego. the shooting took place saturday. a gunman opened fire on a congregation, marking the last day of passover. one woman was killed and three other kocongregants were injure. i want to go to cal perry on the scene in poway. tell us more about the victims, what we learned about the woman who passed away at the age of 60, after this shooting took place, on the way to the hospital. >> reporter: three victims in total. one deceased. we understand the rabbi is out of surgery. there was some surgery just on his fingers. he may lose a finger there. luckily, the injuries of those who are in hospital seem to be light injuries but as you said, that shooting yesterday morning about 11:30 a.m., a 19-year-old white male going into the

synagogue behind me on what is the holiest days of the year, the last day of passover, in judaism. we're finding out more about the shooter as well, david, this online trail that he left of hate, his rhetoric of this mass shooting, very similar to the new zealand shooting last month that massacre that killed almost 50 people. almost a copycat shooting when you look at the language online and the plan that he had. amazingly i'm standing here telling you it could have been a lot worse. authorities saying the automatic rifle that the gunman had possibly jammed and that caused the gunman to flee the scene. he turned himself in over the phone. police were able to apprehend him fairly quickly. we hope to learn more from police about the exact motive. >> cal perry from poway, california, thank you for the reporting. at a campaign rally in green bay, wisconsin, president trump responded to that attack. >> our entire nation mourns the loss of life, praise fys for th

wounded and stands in solidarity with the jewish community. we forcefully condemn the evil of anti-semitism and hate, which must be defeated. >> that's perhaps the most forceful the president has been rebuking anti-semitism. saturday's shooting was exactly six months after a gunman opened fire at the tree of life synagogue in pittsburgh, killing 11 members of that congregation, that became the deadliest attack on a jewish community in the history of the united states. president trump drew criticism with his initial response to the shooting, first focused more on the gunman suggesting the tragedy could have been prevented if the synagogue had an armed guard. >> the world is violence. the world is a violent world, and you think when you're over it, it goes away but it comes back in the form of a madman, a

whacko. they had an armed guard inside, if they did, they might have been able to stop him immediately. >> that was october the 27th. later, the president turned his attention to the victims. >> this was an anti-semitic act. you wouldn't think this would be possible in this day and age. >> not only is it possible, the fbi has marked an increase in hate crimes in the united states, with a 37% increase of hate crime toward jews and 16% increase in hate crimes targeting african-americans. yesterday's shooting took place a little over a year and a half after the president defended men and women he called supporters of white supremacists and neo-nazis who marched in charlottesville, as "very fine people on both sides." remark former vice president joe biden used to launch his 2020 presidential campaign this week. >> "very fine people on both sides"? those words, the president of the united states assigned a moral equivalence between those

spreading hate and those with the courage to stand against it. >> this week president trump defended that infamous remark in response to a question from the white house press corps. >> if you look at what i said, will you see that that question was answered perfectly, and i was talking about people that went because they felt very strongly about the monument to robert e. lee, a great general. whether you like it or not, he was one of the great generals. >> joining me here in new york is dana milbank political columnist for the "washington post" and sean mchenry, cyber security analyst, and christina beltran, associate professor at new york university. christina, let me start with you. let's talk about the landscape, the context in which this occurred and sherlin iphyll had a tweet. "as more news comes out of pa po

way, to recast the deadly 2017 anti-semitic white supremacist as a gathering to honor robert e. lee." let's look at the context the last two years. >> one of the things that's important is yesterday we saw him read on a prompter carefully that he condemns anti-semitism. the larger issue is in terms of how trump talks about communities he disagrees with, is there's an anti-semitic logic to his entire politics. yesterday when he condemned anti-semitism the first thing he said was we're going to look into this and we have a lot of things to look into deep research into. there's a conspiratorial logic and sort of the language of anti-semitism with trump and anti-semitism without jews. sometimes he goes after communities he doesn't agree with as somehow not part of the u.s., and there was a shooting, shall there's a way in which he speaks the language of race

hatred or incites the language of race hatred. it's about think being populations as not part of the united states and it has such a long history now, that even if he says a few lines on a prompter, ultimately the logic of the race rhetoric he has is anti-semitic in its logic. it's not just anti-semitic in terms of the population he's talking about. >> i want to parparaphrase something from the daily news, why is it so difficult for this president to say he's sorry in the light of a tragedy like this one. christina was saying there is a constructed sentence or two he read about the incident that took place but it's not something that comes naturally to him as you look at the tragedies that occurred. >> amongst my juest friends, people felt sick to their stomach about this attack and sick about the way the president continues to be unable to respond the kind of way the leader of the country should be able to respond. this is sadly one of its most dangerous periods that american jews have ever had to face in

this country with this attack, and the conspiracy theories cited by these neo-nazis in pittsburgh, new zealand and outside san diego now all say the same thing, which is that this crazy story about how somehow jews are letting in immigrants into this country which is similar to what republicans ran on in 2018, saying that george soros was supporting and funding the migrant caravan that trump never condemned and seemed to support when asked about it. so the thing that i don't understand is why there aren't more democratic leaders willing to publicly say this president has emboldened neo-nazis and nationalists no in this country and two members of congress have blamed this attack on ilhan omar which is ridiculous, this is what is happening with the republican leadership in congress. a woman already facing many death threats in this month. >> "my heart is breaking after

today's deadly shooting on the last day passover and six months to the day after the tree of life shooting." sean, working at the fbi for as long as you did looking at cyber security issues we're talking about a fertile ground for this ideology to spread. let's look at this one case in specific, don't paint it with a broad wrush. there is an echo chamber which this can echo and echo. >> this is not an issue solely within the united states. we've seen the rise of anti-semitism across the globe and religious hate looking at germany, poland and france and what we saw in new zealand. social media provided a platform. historically people had pockets, neighbors or friends they knew but not this broad acceptance and with the advent of the internet, social media, people

are finding others aligned with them ideologically. that empowers them and emboldens them. we saw the same thing in the fbi with pedophilia, people found those like-minded and it empowered them, and we saw a widespread in the early 2000s and i think that technology allowed that to happen. we need to harness that and become proactive in the ability to mitigate it. >> facebook might say we did all right they didn't allow the live streaming to take place that took place in new zealand. how much of this is on the company themselves, how equipped are they to deal with these threats? >> there's been a lot of the conversation. a the lo of the technology companies have been before congress, put people in charge of identifying where the pockets of hate are. can they quickly respond and take them down. it's difficult to scale. they have the right intent but

the platform itself is difficult to harness and get your arms around. the scale is so great the ability for human beings to intervene is challenged. >> dana, you wrote a column a couple days after this happened, you started in birmingham and ended up in memphis and somebody told you this, as bad as things are now, we've gone through much worse. >> it's still true. you don't want to sit here and say it wasn't a widespread massacre so therefore it's okay what happened in san diego yesterday. of course that's not true. i think we need to keep things in perspective. that's not to say we don't have a a serious problem going on. the president doesn't come out forceful because he's afraid he's going to be blamed for this. the truth is, he didn't create

this problem. facebook didn't create this phlegm. this is a cultural problem. they're both making it a whole lot worse. the president, you can see you're exactly right, you know exactly when he's reading on prompter, because it's sort of a sing-song, they made me read these remarks and i don't really believe them, but the people who are committing these atrocious acts, trump isn't agreeing with them or telling them to do it, but they're hearing that, when he talks about the outsiders, when he puts the images of jewish stars atop money in his advertisements, goes after the prominent jews, whether it's against jews, i mean the same guy was very interested in attacking muslims as well. basically what he's doing is he's not saying it's okay to do this but giving a little wink to it, and saying, you know, there's no more political correctness. you can say what you want now and some lunatic is going to do this. >> sean, lastry, i w rlastly, "

tribune" noted like many synagogues t increased security through grants of the department of homeland security. what is your reaction to that? you heard what the president said after the tree of life synagogue shooting, there should be armed guards there. how much thought has gone into how to prevent these things from happening, aside from the rhetoric that's being passed around online? just in terms of preventing them at a physical level? >> we've seen a lot of synagogues in houses of worship that have put physical security in place, having a marked car, marked police vehicle outside or having people physically inside as a deterrence. that's reactionary and it will allow you to perhaps mitigate an attack but how do you stop this or the rhetoric? how do you stop kind of the people that are fostering this, and the ideology, and i think that starts, jonathan greenblatt talked about intelligence in the

communities working with law enforcement, how do you identify this activity early on with people in youth, in schools, et cetera, and try to quash that activity and stop it, before it rises to the level of violence. that really comes to the cultural piece, and what are we doing as a community, as a society, as a civilization to help to get our arms around this and stop this activity, before it rises to the level of this abhorrent attack. >> sean, thank you very much. great to see you as always. coming up, they were not satisfied with what they didn't get to see in the redacted version of the mueller report. they expect to hear from the attorney general but nbc news has exclusive reporting how bill barr is trying to pump the brakes on that. that's next. >> tech: you think this chip is nothing to worry about?

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welcome back. thisis no love loss between democrats and bill barr. nbc news is reporting exclusively this morning the justice department indicated to the house judiciary committee bill barr might not show up for testimony that is scheduled to take place on thursday of this week. at issue, the nearly 1,000 redactions you see in there behind me made to mueller's report. the attorney general does not want to be questioned. jerry nadler has subpoenaed the doj for the full unredacted version of bob mueller's findings. he also subpoenaed former white house counsel don mcgahn to force him to testify publicly

despite white house objections. bill barr's oversight of the russia probe is under scrutiny most especially over his decision to clear the president of obstruction of justice. the attorney general has been parroting some of the president's attack lines. >> they spied on me. they spied on our campaign. >> spying did occur, yes, i think spying did occur. >> democrats put all their hopes behind their collusion delusion, which has now been totally exposed the world as a complete and total fraud. >> there was, in fact, no collusion. >> our great attorney general made an immediate decision. >> that the evidence developed by the special counsel is not sufficient to establish that the president committed an obstruction of justice offense. >> joining our panel, danielle moody mills from sirius xm. hans nichols first is at the white house for thus morning.

let's go back to the nbc news exclusive. the attorney general might not show up thursday to testify before the house committee. he'll be there wednesday before the senate judiciary committee. help us to understand in finer detail what the doj is objecting to. >> reporter: we don't quite know because owe only have this from house democrats. house democrats certainly think there's a threat that he won't testify and the issue is going back and forth into open session and closed session. remember, when you have classified material, which some of that redacted material clearly is, you could go into closed session because members of congress have a presumption of having some security clearance. here's the issue. this is basically a protocol fight, a process fight when there's a bigger fight about the substance and this is an indication that this white house and this administration may challenge congress on a lot of these investigative hearings. william barr will be an interesting hearing. the one as a reporter i'd like to ask more questions to is rod

rosenstein. after that "washington post" report said he basically gave the president some sort of assurances that he could be trusted, i really want to know what sort of offers he made to president trump, rod rosenstein. remember the quote in "the washington post", i can land the plane, i give it credibility. we'll see how cooperative the white house and administration are. clearly the president is going to invoke executive privilege on a lot of these guys but this isn't that. this right now house judiciary seems to be a technical dispute. guys? >> danielle moody mills we were having a conversation the degree which you want to hear from bill barr without having seen the full report. if bob mueller is the one you want to hear from. hans is calling this a procedural fight but there is meat to this. >> the real sit bill barr is not the attorney general of the united states. he's trump's personal attorney and he's going on and parroting everything that trump has said in all of his rallies. he got up in front of the

american people and talked about no collusion, when that in fact wasn't the basis of the investigation. it was about obstruction of justice, but then he's talking, standing up there and he lied to the american people, knowing that within two hours of his press conference that we were going to be able to actually read the merits of what bob mueller put in his report. so the idea that he's going to decide where and when he's going to testify, like that's not, it's not normal, right, but we're all treating it as if it's okay. it's actually not okay. like when you are subpoenaed and you are asked to come before congress, that is your job as attorney general of the united states to speak before congress. you don't get to decide i'm going to go to the senate, why? because it's run by republicans? this level of partisanship that they have taken on the trump administration is not normal. you are not just president of 30% of the population of the united states that voted for you with putin's help. you are president of the entire united states. you are the attorney general of

the entire united states and that's not how they're acting and we're allowing them to keep moving forward as if it's okay. >> danielle, you write about the procedural fights well and often. you have a white house brazenly pushing back against the congress, trying to get members of this administration to testify. >> that part of it i get. you want to make it look like the democrats are obsessive. you throw sand in the gears at every stage. i wouldn't be surprised when they finally do get barr in there, somebody immediately moves to adjourn and they have another food fight, and the idea is to make it look like it's over the top. >> the house at its best. >> what is barr thinking? to the extent anybody knew his name before, he's like yeah, old time attorney general, respected figure but i think he's second only to scaramucci in the record time in which he has trashed his reputation. he's gone from this elder statesman, respected figure to

being an utter hack defending trump with these crazy talk of the collusion delusion and this whole notion of spying, as if that's some sort of illegal term of art. so what was in it for him to take this job and now look worse than jeff sessions. >> you're nodding over there. >> just such an odd form of being a political day trader. you had this long career seen as a somewhat legitimate person but i think it raises issues of what is the relationship between establishment republicans and the trump era of sort of trumpist politics. i think the connections between those groups are closer and more interesting and embedded together than we often think and i think he exemplifies that problem. >> scaramucci i heard is a measure of time. >> it's ten days. >> hans nichols, thank you for joining us from the white house this morning. when we come back, it's been characterized as the most controversial trump administration initiative to reach the supreme court, with

the justices now poised to allow a controversial citizenship question in the 2020 census. how that could shape nationwide elections and how federal funds are allocated for years to come. that's next. ♪ when heartburn hits,

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. welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. protests taking place in washington over president trump's move to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census. the supreme court heard arguments over the constitutionality. opponents believe it could lead to an undercount of people in urban areas with large hispanic and immigrant populations. the final ruling will be handed sometime in june. former attorney general eric holder writes "i'm deeply concerned the supreme court appears willing to allow the trump administration to weaponize the 2020 census to determine where political and economic power in the united states should reside." we're joined by my former colleague at npr, nina, always good to talk to you. there was a spirited back-and-forth between the san francisco attorney general and sonya sotomayor. help us understand what the

justices are weighing. i gather this was a circuit court decision plus the constitutionality. there's a lot of cases that are under way right now related to this. >> there are three lower courts that have found the addition of the question to be illegal under something called the administrative procedures act and that sets out the way you're supposed to adopt rules and regulations. there's also a constitutional question, but it really is unlikely that the court will get there, and in fact, the justices seemed extremely untroubled, five of them, the five conservatives seemed completely untroubled by the notion of adding this question, even though it hasn't been asked since 1950, and for the most part has never been asked in this form. it wasn't even asked of women at all until 1920, when they got the vote, and it used to be asked on and off of adult males foreign born, and so they've

asked, wanted to add this question, the administration said for help enforcing the voting rights act, but of course the voting rights act has been in effect for 50 years, without this information. so i thought it would be at least a more i expected it to be a less done deal and it was obviously a done deal. none of the conservatives seemed to think there of a problem at all. >> people might be tuning in the 2020 census, why should i care about this but the ramifications are potentially huge. it's about voter suppression and trying to rig the rules for house seats coming up in 2020 and beyond. the bigger picture here is that if the republican party is a party of white politics in a

country seeing a declining white majority, i don't know another country with a smooth transition of power from a dominant ethnic group to new voices and diversity. so they will, we saw it in wisconsin, we saw it in north carolina and they'll continue to rig the rules. i don't see any presidential candidate speaking to the issue about what that means for our country and what it means for our democracy that this is going to continue to be what the republican party does. donald trump speaks forcefully to that question and i'd love to see presidential candidates speak forcefully about this issue and tell a story about what america should mean as the country's demographics change. >> nina, what does this is a about the role of expertise in washington, d.c., today, how expertise is valued? adam liptak writing in "the times." about 6.5 million people might not be counted if the citizenship question is allowed. willber ross, the secretary of

commerce at the center of all of this, heads up or oversees the census broadly and he went against the recommendations of his department. >> he went the unanimous recommendations of the statisticians and scientists in his department and remember that the census bureau has been considered off limits in terms of political influence because it's such an essential part of what we do and the census is in the constitution. the founding fathers said let's take a count of all persons every ten years, so that, and we want to do that so that basically political influencers can't fiddle with the system, and what opponents in this case, the challenges in this case are saying wilbur ross fiddled with the system. when you look at emails that came out during the course of the litigation, it quite clearly

contradicts a lot of things he said about why this was the citizenship was, question was added. they started to talk about it with the white house early in the administration with steve bannon leading the charge. >> i attended the argument this week as well and i was like nina, astonished to the extend to which the justices were just fine with this. it's obvious what's going to happen, california, new york, texas may lose seats, latinos will be disempowered, and the justices, like alito for example, sitting there saying maybe it's not the presence of this question that causes them not to respond to the census, and briar says what is it, the presence of dogs or cats in their home? i wonder if nina knows the justices better than they know it themselves, could this be one of the cases when roberts, even though he's ideologically with the administration, says i don't want the court to be disgraced and look like it's being so political. >> nina, last word on that.

what do you say? >> never say never, but i'd be surprised, let answer put it that way. >> nina, thank you for joining us. were you at the correspondents dinner last night? >> me? >> yes. >> no. >> i want to shed light n 2016 it was a different day. i was up late watching c-span, you were on the red carpet interviewed by c-span, one of my favorite quotations, squd what you were wearing and you said "something that can take a lot of wear and tear." i'm pretty sure that was chanel. >> it wasn't chanel. i work for public radio! >> i should say administration official and 2020 candidates are sounding off on the sunday shows. we'll bring you what they are saying on the shoedws, coming u next. r. it has that 'fence' in the middle. it gives a nice smooth shave.

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do you think we should keep troops in afghanistan? >> i do not. i believe we need to do it in a responsible way. >> where do you see your party right now? >> it's going to be how do we think government should work and who do we think government should work for? welcome back to "up." i have my producers watching the other sunday shows so you don't have to touch your remote. president trump's adviser kellyanne conway was pressed moments ago about the president's view on white supremacists. jake tapper asked her about trump's comments after the attacks in charlottesville when he described fine people on both sides of that incident. >> when the president of the states condemns neo-nazis and kkk in the first couple months of his term and it is twisted around for almost two years for people's political per versions. >> i don't know who he was talking about. >> he made that clear.

it looks like you and others looking at 2020 are worried this guy can't be beaten fairly and squarely. why does joe biden come out and not say one thing about his senate race. >> that comment is beneath you. >> "that comment is beneath you" says jake tapper. we've seen over the last few days in light of the president doubling down in response to a question from a white house reporter, a rewriting of the narrative surrounding what the president said in charlottesville. >> in that comment you see john kelly also, there's video of him shaking his head at trump's comments. the white house press team have trying to spin this since it happened. tends to not tell the truth about what happened, about the way donald trump is, you know, and for me, it's more about kind of the press and the democratic party, too, because by allowing kellyanne conway to go on air and continue to spin lies like

this, i don't think it's helpful to anyone. i don't think it's helpful to people who feel really hurt right now, feel under attack in this country. she is a propagandaist for the administration and going to say whatever it takes to protect her boss. there are many other people to talk to, who are experts on the subject, who can tell you about how the president has emboldened white nationalists and white supremacists in this country. >> danielle? >> i'm so confused why we keep talking to these people. i don't understand why the press goes to the press briefings. but when they do, like they show up and they listen to sarah sanders, stand there and lie. we learned in the mueller report that she just made stuff up. >> we knew what we knew. >> like we learned what we knew and kellyanne conway going on television. why are you having her on, to his point, why are you doing that? the fact is that this administration blatantly lies all the time. you are doing a disservice to the people of the united states

by continuing to have them on, and then just not ask the right questions. we're not asking like oh, is the president, maybe the president is a white nationalist, maybe he's a racist. no. the president of the united states is a white nationalist. he is a racist. everything that comes out of his mouth is either xeno phobic, hoe know phobic or racist. there's no mixing of that. why do we pretend there's a conversation to be had? there isn't. why did joe biden come out with that video? because he needed to remind the american people how racist the president of the united states is. >> we should add jake tapper is wrong, no comment is beneath conway. >> go ahead. >> that was it. there is no comment. >> there's no below, there's no bar. we've lost the bar. i think this speaks to the fact it's incredibly hard to manage the fact when you have a deeply

corrupt administration at every level, because the normal procedures we're supposed to talk to the people and have them tell you something that has some relationship to the facts and the truth and when you don't you're sort of constantly, the media is still trying to manage how you talk to the people in charge who are assigned to tell you what's happening, when none of them have any commitment to fact. so then how do you find a way to sort of continually, and that gets twisted as bias, so i think this is what happens when fundamental corruption infests an administration. you have no, it's very hard to pull the levers of normalcy, right, because everything is corrupt from the top of the head-down. >> let's look at cultural studies here, the academic at the table, it's rewriting history as well.

>> true propagandaists have certainly intelligence, doesn't matter what the facts are, i'll keep saying this, hoping a vaguelyis engaged population will hear the din of politics and take that in. i think they understand that structurally, for people who aren't paying a lot of attention, this is a chance to move the ball forward a little bit on these issues because a lot of folks are vaguely reported. that's the barr report, having barr come out and do that was an opportunity to muddy the waters, and i think really trying to play on civic confusion and citizenship disengagement is like a tactic of wanting and assuming a disengaged public and playing on it. >> lastly to you, danielle, what is it about kellyanne, the pseudo shakespeare, her husband and what she has to say. >> i want to get to one dinner without talking about the conways. >> as you look at the new washington, where in the past you'd turn to somebody in her position or within the white house for comment on the

matters. how do we move beyond that protocol or that? >> because we're still going through the motions the old conventions. it's the sunday morning show. you have the official on. none of these things works anymore. we've learned not to carry the president live because we're broadcasting what he's see is enial essentially lying to and fact checking him in real time. she'll say the same falsehood again. what do you do? the answer is you stop the interview. >> yep. >> we'll stop this one, no. president obama breaking his primary silence, who will he knight as his successor? may have given us a hint at what he's looking for, next. (mom vo) it's easy to shrink into your own little world. especially these days. (dad) i think it's here. (mom vo) especially at this age. (big sister) where are we going? (mom vo) it's a big, beautiful world out there. (little sister) woah... (big sister) wow. see that?

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vo: getting to a comfortable retirement doesn't have to be an uncomfortable thought. see how lincoln can help you retire on your terms at lincolnfinancial.com - when you're volunteering, "it's not my job."r that's because right where you live, there's a need for your time and skills and effort and talent. please consider volunteering and feeling that feeling that you helped someone today. welcome back to "up." former joe biden entered the 2020 presidential race. the former obama vice president racking up a growing list of endorsement following the thursday announcement with one noticeable exception. biden says he asked his former boss not to back him in the primaries, instead he prefers to earn the nomination against the rest of the field based on his own merits. >> i hope that i've learned from

him and that relationship, and a philosophic basis. it's about moving to the future. it's not about recreating what we did. it's about taking the same decency and the philosophy that we have, the political philosophy, and taking it into the future. there's so much we can do. >> president obama who has long said picking biden as his running mate was one of the best decisions he has ever made also is said to have dissuaded his right-hand man against running against hillary clinton in 2016. last night at a mandella foundation event the 44th president spoke about the pitfalls of fears in our leadership. >> fear induces closed-mindedness. leaders who feed fear typically are also ones who avoid facts. >> danielle, i want to start with you, you had joe biden there a few moments ago talking about his brand of politics, the kind of politics that he and president obama engineered together as he sees it and it's

one he says that's looking to the future, it's not looking back. there is a bit of dissidents in the campaign as a few days in about that, him harkening back not way things were and to cross the t and dot the i looking to the future. >> i do think that it's going to be an issue for joe biden. i think that the idea that once again, everyone wants like a white male savior to come in and save the day and also thinks that that's the only person that can go toe to toe with donald trump is kind of a problem, but i also think, again, joe biden is operating as if the world is normal right now and wants to harken back to the day when there was decency, when you expected a certain level of respect and facts from your president, and that when your leader stood up for you they were speaking for all of americans. i think that that's wonderful, it's wonderful as a bedtime story but it's not the reality -- it's not the nightmare that we're currently living in. so you need someone that is going to speak to the reality of today, right, and the danger

that this country is facing. i don't know if joe biden can do that or will do that, right? like we need someone to actually say what is actually happening. i think that yesteryear it was glorious, it was wonderful, i loved the obama area, i try to think about it often as a way to like move myself -- >> cope. >> it's a soothing blanket, if you will. the reality that we're living in i don't know that you can go backwards and move forward at the same time. i don't know that he can be the throw back candidate that makes everybody feel comfortable but also meet this moment with the urgency and the emergency that we're actually in. >> you're anti-establishment arian in light of the campaigns you have worked on and what you're doing now, what do you make of him after months and months of deliberation deciding he's going to run. >> i think joe biden will be judged by joe biden not by barack obama at this time. in 2008/2012 those elections were about barack obama not joe

biden. he ran as an anti-establishment candidate, ran talking about taking on wall street. he criticized free trade agreements. he was a populous candidate and that's not going to be joe biden's message because joe biden is not a populist in the same way. he is from the establishment in the way that barack obama ran on, yes, we can, joe biden's career has often been a career of no, we can't. he will continue with this progressive energy in the democratic party, he will continue to say we can't to the medicare for all, no we can't to a green new deal, no we can nt to free college. most of the endorsements are from the centrist wing of the democratic party, harper, feinstein, cuomo. that is not where the energy is in the democrat tk party today. >> how much does president obama matter as we talk about who he might endorse going forward here? i'm reminded of the kid in high school who decided he got no harvard but decided not to go. >> what he implied was that

obama was ready to endorse. >> that was my tortured metaphor. >> right. there is this, you know, real and natural tension in the democratic party of how do you answer donald trump? the biden folks, i don't know if it's centrist so much as they're saying what we need is a sort of reassuring figure who will tell everybody out in the middle of america that we can get all along and that we're better than that? i know how things work. >> we're decent and we're competent. then you have the bernie sanders who seems to be capturing that energy the most who just say, no, it's about an equal and opposite energy on the other side. i don't know how that gets resolved. i also don't know who is right. i don't think any of us know who is right here. but you can sort of envision a scenario under which death by 1,000 cuts for joe biden the way it happened to hillary clinton and some sort of a -- i'm sort of having really bad feelings about a 2016 repeat. >> yeah. >> it seems like it could be set

up for that. >> in the past it hasn't gone well for joe biden, this is his third time running and we've been in single digits the first two times. >> and historically candidates don't to well when it's my turn is your campaign message. it didn't work for bob dole, didn't work for john kerry. >> the pre sump tichbs. >> didn't work for hillary clinton. it is a dangerous path. biden ask running on most alg gentleman and restoration. most al i can't gentleman for the obama era and the restoration of decency in the white house. one of the dangers of that is with biden what you end up talking about mostly is biden and trump. how does biden -- what does he say, how does trump respond to him. what we don't get to talk about is us. we don't get to talk about the future, climate change, instead we get to talk about 40 years -- what happened with the flange richl, what happened with anita hill, what happened with the crime bill, what happened with busing. we're having this kind of conversation and i think to daniel's point i think one of the things that's really important here is we have three

candidates talking about the brokenness of our system, sanders, interestingly buttigieg and warren. they are all saying the system is broken in critical ways and we need a candidate to talk about some of these issues. >> we will leave it there. thank you all for joining me. coming up at the top of the next hour my colleague joy reid with more on what's the second fatal synagogue shooting in six months' time as the community in poway, california, continues to come to grips with what happened there yesterday. tinues to come to grips with what happened there yesterday.

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that does it for me today. thank you very much for watching. "a.m. joy" with joy reid starts right now. i want you to know this is not poway. the poway i know comes together as we did just a few weeks ago in an interfaith event. we always walk with our arms around each other and we will walk through this tragedy with our arms around each other. we have deep appreciation for those who showed courage at the chabad, deep appreciation for the law enforcement agencies that responded so quickly. we will get through this. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." six months -- six months to the day after the deadliest attack on american jews in u.s. history, another man opened fire on a synagogue. it happened saturday, the final day of pass