that does it for me today. thank you very much for watching. "a.m. joy" with joy reid starts right now. i want you to know this is not poway. the poway i know comes together as we did just a few weeks ago in an interfaith event. we always walk with our arms around each other and we will walk through this tragedy with our arms around each other. we have deep appreciation for those who showed courage at the chabad, deep appreciation for the law enforcement agencies that responded so quickly. we will get through this. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." six months -- six months to the day after the deadliest attack on american jews in u.s. history, another man opened fire on a synagogue. it happened saturday, the final day of passover in poway,

california, outside of san diego. one person was killed and three others were injured. >> i looked to the entrance and i see a guy who was like 5'6", 5'7", white, with like glasses with a vest on and he was just standing there and like shooting, shooting, shooting everybody. >> officials have a suspect in custody but they aren't releasing any details about a possible motive. one thing we do know is that a man by the same name posted an open letter on the far right message board hours before the attack. it's anti-semitic, hateful and cites inspiration from the new zealand mosque shooter and the attacker of the tree of life synagogue in pittsburgh. the writer of the open letter also takes credit for an arson last month at a mosque in escondido, california, something that's now under investigation. joining me is ted lieu, a

democrat from california, maddy hassan host of up front and jennifer rubin opinion writer of the "washington post." congressman, i'm going to go to you first on this. what do we know about whether or not there is, in fact, a link between this suspect and a previous arson and just what do we know in general about who this person was and the inspiration that this person is claiming from other mass attacks on jewish people? >> thank you, joy. my heart goes out to the victims of the synagogue shooting in poway, california, my understanding is that lori kay got in front of the shooter to protect her rabbi and she passed away. then the rabbi who was shot continued to finish her sermon for passover. that is amazing strength in the face of evil. what we do know is that there has been a stunning rise in white nationalism since 2017 according to anti-defamation league, there has been a nearly

60% increase in anti-semitic incidents. from 2017 to 2018 there has been a rise in white nationalist groups. this shooter from reading his manifesto clearly was influenced by white nationalism ideology and we need to stamp out white nationalism and anti-submit tichl and all its evil forms. >> this person writing this open letter and posted cited invasion from the christchurch attack, claimed an attack on a muslim mosque, an arson attack. so what you a're seeing is this amalgam effect where these shootings seem to be both anti-semitic and anti-muslim but in the same ideology. >> i definitely think that what you're seeing here is the ways in which the jewish community and the muslim community are facing a common threat from white nationalism, you're also seeing movingly the coming together of these communities in support for each other. >> right.

>> i do think there was another aspect to the manifesto, he is a white supremacist, the person who wrote this, however, he also mentioned things like jews controlling the slave trade and jews controlling politicians, things that you hear often on the left as well. so i think it's really important for us to think about what is our response to this? and one response that i think is not appropriate is people who come out and tell jews which anti-semites and which anti-sem tichls they are allowed to be afraid of and allowed to be worried about. >> where do you think that the energy from this is coming from? there are a lot of people that look at the charlottesville march as a really sort of seminole moment, really horrific moment in u.s. history when you saw people willing to not wear hoods but just come out and openly chant jews will not replace us, you know, in just --

openly to do that with tiki torches as if it was almost like a klan march. is there something that you can point to that is the rise of this? is this about the politics in the country right now? what is it about? >> look, it's undeniable that the age of trump has seen a rise, an exponential rise in anti-semitic attacks, rhetoric and anti-semitism. that's true. at the same time the jewish community very much was a consensus feeling that they are being attacked from both sides. so while the white nationalist threat is much more physical and real and murderous, at the same time when you go to jewish communities you're feeling the fear that is really pervasive. >> let me bring you in on this because it's undeniable that statistically that the anti-semitic incidences have

gone way up under this president. the anti-defamation league tracks how many attacks, you can see it there, it's gone from 941 attacks in 2015 all the way to 1986 attacks now. we know that there is this kind of sort of widespread open white nationalist ideology and ideation that is pro live rating not just online but physically, people showing up to places and proclaiming it. >> definitely, joy. let me start by saying this, i want to offer my condolences in solidarity with my jewish brothers and sisters that are still mourning the worst attack in history and to have this happen again at the end of passover is unspeakable. this guy claims to have attacked a mosque recently. we muslims and juiews are now t victims of what is an epidemic. over the last ten years 70% of

the terrorist-related deaths in this country have been at the hands of right wing extremists. last year in 2018 every single one of the 50 terrorist deaths on u.s. soil came at the hands of white nationalists. this month alone, joy, in the united states in real life a guy burned down three black churches in louisiana, another guy tried to run over an interracial couple in new orleans, another guy was sentenced to prison in oregon for murdering a young black man, in california a man drove his car into a crowd of pedestrians because he thought they were muslim. put a teenage girl in a coma and yesterday we saw this man, this alleged killer, 19-year-old who they have arrested walking into a synagogue and opening fire and killing one person, injuring three. this is an epidemic and we have a president who will not -- not only will not acknowledge that we have an epidemic of white nationalist after new zealand, he is providing the mood music for it. that is the reality we face and that is very scary reality. >> normally, jennifer rubin, what would happen in a situation

like this is you would have a sense of national emergency that comes out of the white house and a typical president whether they were a republican or democratic president would be doing something to try to beat back what is obviously an anti-semitic tide, anti-muslim tide, white nationalist tide. no one can deny it's happening but this administration pulled back the resources to each investigate it or quantify it. so what could the american people do if the white house is not exhibiting the normal kind of emergency footing that we would normally see? >> you make a key point which is that this administration is making it worse. they're making it worse because they won't identify white nationalism as a major catastrophe, not only in this country but around the world. trump after new zealand of course said it was just a few people, he wasn't concerned about it. he is so obsessed with muslim or rather radical islamic terrorism

that he has set up all of these nonsensical provisions like the muslim ban and he is really ignoring the core issue here. i think it's undeniable that when he himself talks about being a nationalist, when he says in this language of xenophobia and hay trid about immigrants this emboldens people, this gives people who have these views confirmation that they are not outside the mainstream, that they are perfectly accepted in american society. that has to end. you absolutely need it from the white house, but it can come from other places. congress can come together. we've seen as was pointed out the muslim community, jewish community come together, religious leaders, faith leaders, governors, mayors, and i think there has to be an outpouring and a demand for

leadership. i understand so personally that we look to the president in times like this, but i think it's time to realize he's not going to help. he's making things worse. so i think we have to organize ourselves collectively and i think we have to establish some boundaries for public debate and for public speech by the president of the united states who is now trying to rewrite history and deem charlottesville all about a historical debate or a historical movement, which, by the way, would be in favor of a vicious slave owner who rebelled against the united states of america. he is not going to help and for that reason i think the rest of us have an enormous responsibility, democrats, republicans, not to squabble about ourselves, not to say who is the worst anti-sem might, or who is the worst white nationalist but really as a moment of national unity to come

together and condemn this. this has to end. >> we have a congressman, we happen to have a congressman in the house. what can congress do? funding emerges from the house of representatives, you've seen this administration pull back on supporting the department of homeland security, department that's supposed to be in charge of beating back or investigating white nationalists. this he don't seem to want to do that. what can congress do? >> one issue i've worked on every year i've been in office is to make sure we have enough funding for security grants to places of worship. i believe we need to have an increase in that funding which is operated through fema and available to all places of worship, whether it's a synagogue or a mosque and people can apply. it's something we need to work together on a bipartisan basis in congress. i'm glad that you mentioned charlottesville, that was not a march in honor of robert e. lee. that was a march in support of anti-semiti

anti-semitism, of hate and white nationalism. >> if it had been a march it would have been a march in honor of a vicious slave owner who thought that he had the right to own human beings as property. what can citizens do? >> i think one thing that it's really important to remember is that jews in america are in a very interesting place. on the one hand we have huge amounts of privilege that other minorities don't have, huge amounts of institutional power and on the other hand we're extremely vulnerable to these kinds of attacks like our muslim american brothers and sisters and african-american brothers and sisters. i would urge people to keep that in mind when they're seeing jews in moments of power and also in moments like this. what i'm seeing in my community is jews acknowledging that, using their privilege to stand up for other minorities but also insisting on their right to protect themselves. >> what about the media because it's complicated to do these stories, because you don't want to give people like this person any notoriety, you certainly don't want to put their views

out there and their open letters or whatever it is they're saying, but how can we -- is there something the media can do to be helpful here? >> i definitely agree that we can't give them notoriety, but on the other hand we have to call a spade a spade. we need to talk about this problem. we have talked about it in the past about how the media was disproportionately covered horrible muslim terrorist acts but has ignored white nationalist terror. the studies are clear on the facts like that. we have a president who ran for election, he use you had to say barack obama wouldn't say the words radical slick terrorism. we need to be able to do that and say that and call it out because that is the real threat we face. this is not just domestic terrorism, this is a transnational problem. this is happening across the globe. the guy in san diego says he was inspired by the guy in new zealand, the guy in new zealand says he was inspired by the guy in norway who killed 77 people

in 2011. this is a national security threat, a global threat, we need a president who will take it seriously and yet this is a president about whom white national igss after he was elected remember what they were chanting in d.c., hail, trump. that was richard spencer after he was inaugurated. the editor of the neo nazi daily stormer website said, and i quote, trump is setting us free from the racist horse's mouth. >> it should be an issue in 2020. let's see if the democratic candidates take it up since obviously the guy in the white house is not going to. thank you all very much. coming up, the nra leadership struggle hits the front pages as the organization seems to be hitting the skids. that's next. zation seems to be hitting the skids. that's next. this is the story of john smith seems to be hitting the skids. that's next. he organization seems to be hitting the skids. that's next. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith.

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i'm thrilled to be here in indiana with the men and women of the nra. you are great american patriots. chris cox, wayne lapierre, oliver north. i've been following oliver for a long time. great guy. >> donald trump is going to have to find a new nra bestie. oliver north, you will remember him from iran-contra infamy, announced yesterday that he is stepping down as nra president in one of the biggest leadership

shakeups in decades for the gun rights lobbying group. north has been locked in a bitter battle with wayne lapierre. lapierre is accusing north of extorting him and trying to force him to resign. north's announcement comes as latesha james has opened an investigation into the nra's tax exempt status. could this be the beginning. end of the nra as a political force? joining. >> he now tim mac, fred guttenberg father of parkland victim jamie guttenberg and shannon watts. tim, let me go to you first, walk us through the controversy that is roiling the nra between oliver north and wayne lapierre. >> i think you could easily say that the last 24 hours and 48-hour period has been some of the most dramatic times for the national rifle association in its modern history. first what you had was its president as you mentioned oliver north stepping aside

after 20 years on the board. you had an effort on the floor of the convention to try to oust the ceo of the nra, wayne lapierre. then you had the new york attorney general announce that it had sent out subpoenas and opened an investigation into -- into issues relating to the nra. so it's been a very dramatic weekend here in indianapolis. >> so let me read you first the latesha james what she said to the "new york times" about the investigation that she's conducting of the nra. she wrote -- this is what "the new york times" wrote about her. even before her election last year ms. james had promised to investigate the organization's tax status and to told ebony magazine that the nra held itself out as a charitable organization but was actually a terrorist organization and the reason that she's able to investigate is that the nra is chartered in new york. tim, isn't there also an aspect of this that has to do with an insurance kind of product that the nra was putting out?

>> yeah, there's been a lot of legal battles over this issue of insurance that involves liability when you carry a gun. the nra has put a lot of time and effort trying to promote this insurance product, but is having a lot of trouble with new york. they're going back and forth with lawsuits and it's been -- it hasn't been the boone that the nra anticipated that it might be. >> and what is this extortion claim about, tim, between oliver north and wayne lapierre? >> well, there are a lot of accusations right now amongst folks on the nra board, they are making allegations of financial misconduct and the basic -- the basic premise behind wayne lapierre's claim of extortion is that oliver north was trying to force him out of the organization with allegations of financial impropriety. there have been a lot of allegations of financial impropriety on all sides of the nra's board and, you know,

various investigations are looking into it. i think we will learn a lot more in the days and weeks to come. >> let me read the nra's response on these investigations, at least the new york investigations, they said the nra will fully cooperate with any inquiry into its finances. the nra is prepared for this, has full confidence in the committee. >> fred, what would it mean to activists such as yourself for the nra to at least be stalled while it's dealing with whether or not it has cha cane ri in its finances rather than spending time trying to get more liberal gun laws passed. >> it would mean maybe some lives can be saved. you know, i joined this movement on february 15th. shannon -- and good morning, shannon -- has been fighting this for years with these fierce moms. i as a dad have guilt that i didn't get into it until after my daughter became a victim of the evil that this entity

pursues. they create chaos for the sole purpose of selling guns and the reason that we now have a 40,000 gun violence death rate in this country is because of the efforts of this group. i am thrilled right now to see the chaos that they live by and the evil that they live by coming back to hit them in the you know what. it's time -- it's time to make them as irrelevant as the tobacco industry is now. >> and, you know, shannon, you saw that the poway shooter who went into a synagogue and killed one person, one person has died as a result of that shooting and shot the place up, used an ar-15, the ar-15 is the weapon of choice of mass shooters in the united states. when the christchurch shooter in new zealand shot up a mosque immediately that country moved to ban that weapon, you know, so that people can't walk around as if they are war lord's with war weapons in that country, but this country has had a very hard

time getting those kinds of guns out of the hands of people. do you think with the nra side lined that might be easier? >> well, we've definitely seen the nra weakened more than we have ever seen it before this their history. last year we were able to pass stronger gun laws in 20 states, nine of which were signed by republican governors. we've he experienced this weakness for a long time and it's really just coming to light, but as you saw the talking points yesterday with the president and with the nra, the solution is always more guns, right? so when the horrific shooting happened at a pittsburgh temple they said if only the could think gats had been armed. yesterday the president praised the border patrol agent who was there, a highly trained border patrol agent who wasn't able to hit the shooter, he hit his car and while we're grateful for the heroic efforts the answer is not more guns. the answer is how do we make sure that a 19-year-old teen who is clearly a white supremacist does not have easy access to an ar-15. that's what we have been working

so hard to do and, yes, i do believe we can take advantage of the fact that the nra a weaker than they've ever been. >> fred, in the case of your daughter and the other parkland students they were also facing a very young guy who was able to get, you know, something just below what he could have gotten by joining the army. that's literally what, you know, innocent kids are facing in schools. are you -- do you see the nra as weaker post parkland? it does feel like those kids really did make a difference in weakening them in the minds of americans, even before these financial issues. >> you know, he was an 18-year-old boy who legally bought an ar-15 that he used to kill my daughter. i will tell you the children have been fantastic in highlighting their demand to want to live free of bullets. the moms have been fantastic in highlighting it. the nra is weaker.

are they gone? no. we need to ensure that we don't stop keeping this pressure on them. they are still there, they are still going to fight back, but do you know what, we're pretty fierce, too, and we are not going to stop. they serve one purpose and one purpose only, to sell weapons. while they stand around shooting incidents like this and say we are a safety organization and we are all about sport, if they believed that for one second they would be leading the way on gun safety measures to keep the guns out of the hands of killers, but they don't. they stand there putting up road blocks. it is time to remove their grip on legislators and legislation, it is time for them to be gone. >> shannon, we also learned that the nra was part of russia's sort of overall attack on our election, one of the ways in which they've tried to infiltrate u.s. politics is through the nra. let's play maria butina who was

sentenced to 18 months in prison for alleged spying. here she is a few years ago questioning one donald trump. >> i am visiting from russia. >> oh, putin. good friend of obama. >> if you would be elect td as a president who would be your foreign politics especially in the relationships with my country and do you want to continue the politics of sanctions that are damaging both economies or do you have any other ideas? >> i believe i would get along very nicely with putin, okay? and i mean where we have the strength. i don't think you would need the sanctions. >> there is no second amendment in russia, you cannot own guns, it's much easier to own guns here than it is in russia. it's very hard to. shannon, do you think now that we also know that the nra is a vehicle for russian influence in american politics in the republican party that that also might be a way in which they lose their influence over american voters?

>> well, you would hope so, right? they have not yet been forced to come clean about what actually happened and what their ties were to russia. we know they gave over $30 million to donald trump's campaign, they haven't had to say where that money comes from, but it really comes back to the matter that gun lobbyists should not be writing our nation's gun laws and that the nra no longer represents the values of the average gun owner. 80% of gun owners and 90% of americans support things like stronger gun laws. what this is about is the strangel hold the nra has on a few american politicians and we are loosening that finger by finger. i believe that after the 2020 election we will have a prime opportunity to actually put forward the gun laws that americans want, both at the state and federal level, but it really is about every american getting off the sidelines, getting involved in this issue, using their voices and their votes to make sure that we have a president and a congress that will do the right thing.

>> let's thank tim, fred and shannon, thank you all for your time this morning. really appreciate it. >> thank you all. have a good day. >> thank you. >> thank you. coming up, eight candidates showed up at the she the people forum to talk to women of color, six got a really warm reception. we will show you who didn't do so well next. ception. we will show you who didn't do so well next

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joe biden officially jumped into the presidential race on thursday, but he reportedly delayed the announcement by one day so as not to step on the she the people forum in houston on wednesday. where eight of his fellow contenders spoke to a full house of mainly women of color at texas southern university. the forum produced lots of headlines including the great reception that senator elizabeth warren got for breaking down what it means to be a woman candidate right now. >> there is a fear in a lot of people of color and a lot of women of color that say after the experience of 2016 they don't have the confidence in the electorate of this country to elect a woman president. they want to vote one way, but their fear says they may need to flee to the safety of a white male candidate. how do you address -- >> i think that's called --

>> are we going to fight because we are afraid? are we going to show up for people that we didn't actually believe in? but because we were too afraid to do anything else? that's not who we are. that's not how we're going to do this. >> well, coming up not every candidate got such a warm reception at the she the people forum. we will show you who didn't fare so well with the crowd next. we will show you who didn't fare so well with the crowd next. your brain is an amazing thing. but as you get older, it naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall.

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kept bringing up because they knew it would cause heat and dissension among us? race. so guess what? the irony of it all is that what otherwise we have been always knowing as a civil rights issue has now become a national security issue. >> the best studies that i've seen put it down to just one thing, prejudice. that doctors and nurses don't hear african-american women's medical issues the same way that they hear the same things from white women. >> this past week i had the opportunity to co-moderate the she the people forum and it's a candidate forum focused on women of color. senators elizabeth warren and kamala harris received by far the warmest reception, connecting with the crowd and proposing specific policy ideas. specifics was definitely the watch word. take a look at what happened when another candidate,

independent senator bernie sanders, responded to questions from the audience by defaulting to his standard lines from 2016. >> as president what would you do with the rise of white supremacist violence to protect our communities? >> absolutely. you know, as somebody who -- i know i date myself a little bit here, but i actually was at the march on washington with dr. king back in 1963. >> well, joining me now is marcus ferrell a former african-american director for bernie sanders, nina turner, jason johnson, political -- mississippi political contributor, editor for theroot.com. nina, good to see you. >> you, too. >> at the forum on that stage we didn't show a long clip of it, but there was like audible booing in the room when senator sanders went right to the i marched with king.

there was a more extended piece where he was asked specifically and i asked him what would you specifically do for black women and he went back to medicare for all and taking down the billionaire class. he said the standard things that we now are all used to hearing bernie sanders say, but the audience started really cat calling and jeering. i mean, people were really upset by the fact that he didn't answer those questions and that he didn't directly address what women of color wanted to hear but really just said his standard thing. why is it that senator sanders knowing he's going to she the people which is a forum of women of color, he's got you that he can talk to on his team, why wasn't he prepared to give specific answers on issues important to black women? >> and he has, joy, and he does. certainly i wish he had articulated those things in a deeper way, but certainly when he is on the trail -- >> or at all. i should say or at all. not even in a ep deeper way, he didn't even answer those

questions at all. >> so for the senator when we look at healthcare, for example, we know that black women are uninsured, about 14%, and when you link that to healthcare it is vitally important that we do have medicare for all because that will impact african-american women. we know that the modality rate among african-american women is higher. he talks about the disparities within the disparities. i think for him in terms of pivotal moments in his life that led him to really be a champion for justice, it was being at the march on washington, for him personally, and so the opportunity to wrap that into a larger vision for black women, he talks about more black doctors, more black dentists -- >> with all due respect, i know that that's what the campaign wants to put out there. with all due respect, nina, in the moment when he could have articulated that in front of black women, if that is the case

and he has this larger vision to wrap-around, why didn't he just do that? >> for the senator, again, in that moment i'm not sure what was happening for him in that moment, but i'm telling you what i have seen, you know, he gives the speeches talking about the disparities within disparities, even when he is not talking to a majority african-american audience. the morning consult poll shows very clearly that over -- that almost half of his supporters are of color. he's polling over 50% with women in general. so, yes, the senator does have a larger vision and being able to take what was a pivotal moment in his life and then connect that to why he has been such a justice warrior, that would have been certainly the moment to do that. >> right. maybe he should have sent you to the forum because you could have done that. >> i was there. >> my question is is the campaign concerned because one of the reasons that senator sanders did not win the nomination is because he was not

able to win a majority of african-american voters, particularly when you went down south, he did not do well in those primaries where the majority of the voters were black. he did not do well where the majority of voters were registered democrats. is the campaign at all concerned that he isn't improving upon and expanding his support among black women voters? >> oh, he is expanding his support, joy. i mean, we were just in south carolina, the senator to this point has more african-american leaders endorsing his campaign in south carolina than any other candidate. that is light years ahead of what happened in 2016. you know, we had the opportunity to visit regenesis which is in greenville, south carolina, it's a community health center where senator sanders working along with congressman clyburn were able to increase the funding for community health centers which we know that 28 million citizens across this country enjoy the services of those centers.

so he is working very hard. $11 billion into the affordable care act for community health centers. so we see a shift, again, the polling shows time and time again that the senator is polling well in the african-american community, in the latino community and also among women. so things are happening. >> okay. let me go to marcus because you were actually in charge of this last time. you were in charge of african-american outreach for the sanders campaign in 2016. but you are not back. >> right. >> with the campaign. we know that the two most prominent black staffers yourself and simone sanders didn't come back for this second round. why not? >> well, to be honest with you, i enjoyed my time working for the campaign, but there's bigger things to do and even more importantly i want to be very honest with you, there is a multitude of candidates that are in right now and i want to hear everyone's voice. >> so do you perceive the same thing that nina turner said that senator sanders is expanding his support among african-americans and women. >> i think he's doing well.

when it comes down to the she the people summit i want to give a shout out to jessica byrd and amy allison and all the women who joined there. jessica made a statement at the beginning of the she the people summit, she said something to the likes of this is your living room. so she was talking to a room of women of color, right, and it's the first time that a national audience got a chance to go inside of a black woman -- women of color's living room and talk about the issues. she the people summit is one of the most special events that ever happened when it comes down to it and candidates should have been more prepared when it comes down to speaking to these folks. >> let me go to jason. jason, i don't know if you were able to watch the summit. >> yes. >> i'm just telling you from the stage it was pretty clear that two candidates did not do well in front of that audience, just to be blunt, senator sanders did not do well. he got a good reception coming in, but by the time he left it was really not working. right? and chelsea gabbert specifically

it was on the issue of syria. a lot of jeering from the audience. you are reporting on this now, do you see him expanding his support among african-americans and among black women to better than he had in '16? >> so a couple things, joy. first i want to mention that i'm the only person here who has never worked for bernie. i want to be clear about where i'm coming from on this. number one, this was sanders' audience to lose. i talked to a lot of people who were there, he got the largest number of cheers when he walked on stage and then he blew it. the thing that's been missed in all of this is he was asked about what he would do about white nationalism and terror, and, i'm sorry, but healthcare after i've been shot by dylann roof isn't what the question was. so he failed to answer the actual question that he was addressed with. the second thing is this, and this is extremely important, look, no one is trying to insult bernie sanders for the activism he has had in the past but the problem is the perception of a

lot of people both in that crowd and around the country is he does this whole like forest gump of civil rights thing and i was with jesse and i was with mlk, i wrote "fight the power" and all this different kind of stuff. that's not what people want to hear. they want to know what you've done now and in the future. when i come back i want to talk about the women that were running at she the people as well, we don't just want to talk about biden and sanders, but i also do want to talk about this biden/sanders dust up, too, we will do that on the other side of the break. thank you very much. that on thee of the break thank you very much. b from any one else. so why accept it from your allergy pills? most pills don't finish the job because they don't relieve nasal congestion. flonase allergy relief is different. flonase relieves sneezing, itchy, watery eyes and a runny nose, plus nasal congestion, which pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one. and 6 is greater than 1. start your day with flonase for more complete allergy relief. flonase. this changes everything.

all right. we're going to pick up right where we left off before we went to break. back with me, marcus farrell. jason, what are you hearing when you're going out and talking, particularly with women of color? because there's another article posted today that i'm probably going to post to twitter in a bit about women in general and women of color being really freaked out by the idea of supporting a female candidate, because they just aren't confident. and that is sort of an explanation as to why the bs, the white guys, the bidens, bernie sanders, the betos, are pulling so much better than the

kamala harris and warrens, particularly for those two candidates. >> when i'm out talking to people who aren't in the d.c. metro area, the three women who come up the most, senator harris, senator warren and stacy abrams. those are the people that black women and latina women i know talk about most. and you're right. there is skepticism. but similar to skepticism about barack obama. a lot of people didn't believe he had a chance until he actually beat hillary. i have said all along regardless of how african-american women feel, it's probably going to end up being a white guy. but the success of these women so far, especially with warren, and we've been seeing this a lot, elizabeth warren, yes, she is not a woman of color. what she has been able to do is speaks with passion and enthusiasm. and for sophisticated black women voters, and we've had to be -- women have had to be sophisticated voters, if we can't get somebody brown or black in that position, we at least want somebody who will listen. that's why warren has done well. i think in some respects she has a higher ceiling than senator

harris, because she doesn't have the baggage of criminal justice in her background. and one last thing is really key. the largest group of minorities in iowa are actually latinos. so all these candidates need to do a better job of addressing that community. >> absolutely. and i'll go to you on the same question. i asked beto this at the forum, nina turner. why shouldn't -- if -- why should black women choose an older, white, male candidate like bernie sanders, who isn't openly addressing issues of importance to the community when they can choose a woman or even a woman of color? those two options are on the table. >> joy, he is openly addressing the issues that impact women of color. but people should vote for folks not just based on, you know -- they should vote for people based on who is going to be the biggest champion for their issues. and that is a myriad of ways to do that. when we talk about the hate

crimes, about what just happened in san diego within the synagogue, nobody understands that as deeply, joy, as senator bernie sanders. you know, his father came over here at the age of 17 years old to escape the holocaust. there are people in the senator's family on his father's side he never got a chance to meet because of nazis who represent the ultimate white supremacists. so senator sanders will appoint an attorney general, who will bring the heat against white nationalism and hate crimes in this country. that lived experience informs him. he has the highest polling among hispanic voters right now, among women, african-americans. so he does -- he does understand the disparities within the disparities. >> the latest poll -- this is all name i.d. saying somebody has the highest polls -- >> it's not just name i.d. >> these polls are name i.d.

right now. let me get marcus in. let me get marcus in. >> i want positive oipoint out. marcus -- >> a message out. if senator harris gets her message out, what's going to end up happening, it's going to be bigger than just actually saying things you're doing for women, for women of color. you are going to actually have a real woman and a woman of color possibly as your leader of the country. if these messages get out the right way and their campaigns do a good enough job getting it out. people are feeling senator warren right now. people are actually listening to senator harris right now in comparison to months ago when they were just -- this time there are serious candidates. i'm waiting for some more issues to come out. when it comes down to vice president biden and his criminal justice background, crime bill stuff, and when it comes to bernie, which literally he is trying his hardest to get his

message across to women of color, but it's not resonating. if they have a problem with you speaking about martin luther king, figure it out. if they have a problem with your hair, figure it out. they're the largest voters. at the end of the day it's not on black women or women of color. >> let me let jason get the last word here, since he's the one guy who is completely neutral, covering this race. do you see -- you talked about -- there is this dichotomy of what people say they want and what they're saying in the polls. do you agree with me that right now the polls are mostly name i.d. nobody is even getting 40 me%. >> joy, nobody cares until after labor day. nobody should be jumping up and down and stunting on anybody. not enough people are paying attention which is why forums matter, because they're influencers, and if you can't work with them, you can't change it this fall. more "a.m. joy" after the break. more "a.m. joy" after the break.

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♪ excuse me. just so you understand. so we got a great -- excuse me. excuse me, i'm not responding to you. i'm talking to this gentleman. will you please sit down? excuse me. excuse me. very fine people, on both sides. you had people in that group -- excuse me. excuse me. excuse me. you -- you are not -- you are not called on. excuse me. to say that, what you said, is so insulting to me.

it's a very terrible thing that you said. >> welcome back to ""a.m. joy."" two words donald trump loves to hit the media with, not no collusion or fake words. excuse me, excuse me. it's a phrase or rebuke trump uses to avoid topics he doesn't like and shut down reporters who ask questions he doesn't want to answer. "excuse me" is how trump tries to put reporters in their place. this week he used it to cut off reporters before a press gaggle and it worked. rather than have to answer questions about whether white house counsel don mcgahn lied to robert mueller or whether he would let him testify to congress, trump was able to redirect the conversation by repeatedly making reporters stop talking. excuse me, excuse me. the day before, his press secretary, sarah huckabee sanders, held her first meeting in almost two months, and only answering questions from children. the children of journalists participating in "take our daughters and sons to workday."

journalists who now know sanders told mueller investigators under oath she made up information during white house press briefings. so who knows what tall tales she told those kids. it's all very authoritarian state and comes as we learn more and more details of just how much trump is leaning on fox news. not just for emotional support, but for actually policy advice. even recently putting fox business host and immigration hardliner lou dobbs on speakerphone during a meeting of the counsel of economic advisers, according to the "washington post," which calls the trump/fox connection an echo chamber. joining me is rob reiner, the columnist at the daily beast and author of "if we can keep it: how the republic collapsed," tiffany cross and our special correspondent for "vanity fair." a power panel. i want to start with the "excuse

me" thing. it struck me and when i pitched this story to my team this morning that donald trump literally has a way of getting to filibuster and not answer questions and the thing that's odd about it, the press doesn't simply walk away from him or turn off the cameras in the same way he was able to kind of bully the white house correspondents' association to not have a comedian so it works. >> it does work. and what he's done -- you reference sarah sanders. her entire job is "excuse me." that's what she's doing. she's basically saying, i'm not going to talk to anybody about anything. >> right. >> and he does have his propaganda wing with fox, who he doesn't say "excuse me" to. and he is -- the one thing he is good at is understanding how to work the media. >> yes. >> that is his one attribute. and he's playing it -- you know, incredibly. he's got -- you know, we were talking earlier. if richard nixon had fox news,

he wouldn't have had to resign. so we have a situation where a guy who is a master manipulator of the media takes fox news, anything that's going to harm him, he parks them, sarah sanders. i'm still surprised kellyanne conway goes on the air and i'm surprised news outlets allow her to go on, because it's pure, unadulterated propaganda. >> and nixon wanted -- they were going to call it conservative tv. so nixon and roger ailes have understood that since that time, if you have an in-house or state tv, you can just pretend everything else doesn't exist and make things up as sarah sanders now admits she does and still be taken seriously as the press secretary and just don't answer anything. >> without question, you look at roger ailes' career, the long arc of it, clearly he wanted to get that project started for richard nixon in the mid '70s, tried to start another right wing tv network.

and finally in 1996 with the money of murdoch he had the means to do so. one thing i want to point out that rudy guiliani told me last week when i was reporting a piece, this tweetstorm, all of this madness you see, according to rudy, is actually designed, and i'm surprised he was honest about it, to throw sand in people's eyes about robert mueller that trump's voters don't know what to believe. >> right. >> so the media says trump is raging. but rudy says this is a calculated strategy to sow doubt and create confusion. >> you wrote a whole book about the construction of the constitution and the gaps that we all glaringly see. it wasn't built to withstand a silvio b silvio burlisconi. >> and wasn't also built to withstand the republican party we have today, which is lockstep behind trump on these questions. the founders, the people who wrote the constitution, assumed,

of course, that people, whatever political party they were in, would be able to rise above that and transcend that if the evidence was such that it required them to do so. there is no way the republican party is going to do this today. on this question of the media, let me just say real quickly, as shocking and amazing as it is, sanders hasn't had a press briefing for two months and only talked to kids. it's almost a blessing, because it's worse what they do say when they do communicate with the press. and trump and kellyanne conway going out there after barr's letter, saying we're accepting apologies is worse when they clam up. >> and tiffany, i read my d.c. every morning. you're in the business of explaining what's happening in washington and telling people what's going on. doing that, having to exempt the white house. >> right. >> what the white house is saying is either nothing or

lies. >> or we translate. we translate the lies, saying this is what they're saying, this is what's actually happening. and i would say, yes, trump does know how to work the media. but there are no innocent parties here. this is also a failing on behalf of the media. i've seen very few substantive interviews where he's really held accountable by journalists. i've seen kellyanne conway completely take over an interview by saying something asinine or accusing the reporter of being biased and the reporter ends up defending herself against this ridiculous claim instead of staying the course and addressing what she's saying. and i want to say also, there's been an ongoing attempt to dumb down the american electorate. so as long as you have things like celebrity click bait and not really paying attention or putting headlines of what trump says instead of a truthful thing, making the headline of his statement the thing you want people to click on. that's failing. almost 70 me% of adults are getg their news from social media, twitter, facebook. and that's having a devastating

effect on media outlets. you see all of the time the increasing number of layoffs at newspapers and prohibint outletd too many people rely on us to form their opinions. and as much as i appreciate it, it should be a small part of your news buffet, not the only thing. >> absolutely. >> i was going to say to that point, the media's real blind spot is their fear of being branded liberal. so the mainstream media is always looking over their shoulder. they don't want to be called out by kellyanne conway or donald trump so they bend over backwards when those actors are not dealing in good faith. this is a case where the media should not care what the right wing is going to troll them with and report the story. >> and i do. >> i also think there is a big, you know, thrust for access. that's the whole thing. and, you know, he is the president. and you do want to have access. but your access to what? that's the thing. and so, you know, media will play it this way, that way, because they still want to --

you know -- maintain that access. >> so i wonder, just in the functioning of democracy category, right, of all of what we're dealing with, i wonder if the media is unable to deal with trump. maybe we're not equipped -- maybe not built for this any more than the constitution was. >> we're not in a lot of ways. there are certain rules of objective journalism to the extent that it still exists that require reporters to, you know, be balanced and evenhanded and present both sides. but, you know, there aren't both sides to the question of whether the sky is blue or green. >> right. >> that's the problem that we constantly run into. small silver lining here should be added into this conversation. not many people buy what they're doing. >> true. >> his base buys it. the democratic base obviously doesn't. and then the people in the middle, i think, a large majority -- >> don't. >> does not. >> there are some nuanced subtleties happen that the media

is complicit in perpetuating. for example, when you say things -- steve bannon came out and said things with racial undertones. i don't know what that is. >> and why is he getting interviewed. he made breitbart.com the home of the alt-right, which is white nationalism. why is his opinion still important? let's talk about fox news for a second, to go off of him for a moment. there was this daily beast story about an e-mail exchange internally in which someone at fox news radio said that the discussion of the charlottesville incident and the attempt to clean it up on fox, which is what their job is as trump tv, sounded to this person like it could have been read off a white nationalist board. that and advertisers walking away from some of the big shows, it doesn't seem to impact what the junior murdochs are doing. >> exactly. and i wrote a piece in the may issue of "vanity fair" about that. and when jeanine pirro made

those comments that were intercepted to be islam phobic, donald trump picked up the phone and called rupert murdoch, his son is ceo, he still controls fox news empire and saved her show. so the idea that the president is intervening in a news network, if we just stop for a moment, that should shock everyone, no matter what your political affiliation is. >> not only interviewing but getting policy -- so lou dobbs saying here's how to do immigration. >> so to michael's point and what his book is about, the founders had a good faith idea that we would respect the other side, and there wouldn't be this kind of, you know, throwing, like you say -- throwing sand in everybody's face. but here we are. here we are at that point, and benjamin franklin said, the democracy -- the republic is there if you can keep it.

and it is all up to whether or not we as, you know, humans, as americans, as decent people, can say, all right, the sky is blue. we all agree on it. now let's have the discussion. >> yeah. >> and if we can't agree on that, then we are on the track to destroying what we have had for 243 years. >> let's talk about the democrats. i'm going to start with you, tiffany. at the same time, the republicans do understand the democrats really well. and kirk mardella was on this show or "all-in." i've been working so many hours, i don't remember what show it was. he said, they understood the democrats will always back down. they understood the democrats are always going to walk away and always give in. and so on the idea of impeachment, republicans have another way to kind of bully the democratic party, which is demonstrably afraid of taking a step that big. >> yeah. >> so is this -- is it going to be difficult for democrats to come off of that posture when,

a., they're a more diverse party. they have more conservative members, members who may not want to go home in their districts and deal with something like impeachment, and don't understand if it's republicans, it will be the impeachment tv show. >> exactly. i don't know if i'll say difficult. i'll say challenging. it's not insurmountable. and i think to your point, this is a new congress, the most diverse congress the country has ever seen. and you have that ain't never scared trinity i call them. ilhan omar, aoc and rashida talib who are gusto, guns blazing. so i feel like this party is going to have to reconcile with that. and it's not -- i think it's really dangerous when congress starts to do things to try to apie appease the american people, because if you did that, you might have hearings on reality tv shows and dunkin' donuts. you have to do the business of the american people. and not everybody sits around and consumes the minutia like we do, but members of congress, we expect you to do that. how many issues do they address in congress that most people

have no idea about? and when you have a president who is loudilauding praise, you failing. >> how might fox -- i'm sorry. >> there are times when the politics, the political calculations have to be discarded. >> yeah. >> there are times -- our country right now and our republic, our democracy, is in the crosshairs. and so we have to make that decision. and if it means we all get voted out, we have to make sure that the american public sees what is going on. >> right. >> and the only way they'll see it is if people go on television. when you've got william barr refusing to go in front of a judiciary committee in congress. >> openly defying. >> we're in -- >> different democracy. >> let's say if democrats did go the right of doing either big impeachment hearings or mueller hearings, whatever they want to call it, a watergate style

approach, how would fox news deal with that? they would have to deal with it. they've already got some folks like judge napolitano who are throwing reality juice on the table in addition to the meal. >> two things. first, as a network, that would be a gift to them. i'm not saying -- it is the right thing, i think, politically and morally. but as a political matter, fox news would play the victim that donald trump is being scapegoated by the media and democrats. that's the narrative they would push. secondly, there are voices of sanity like judge napolitano, but they get scant amount of air time compared to sean hannity, three hours a day. and a fox person e-mailed me just last week to say that producers see ratings go down whenever there is a trump skeptic on the air. the audience will actually change the channel. they can measure this. and so, you know, if you are a network, you see a person like judge napolitano, you're not going to give them significant air time, especially during a case like impeachment. >> he's an expert! okay. we're out of time.

>> also going to air it. they'll air little bits and pieces and take the position of, like, they're bullying him. but they're not going to air it wall-to-wall like other networks would. >> what a world. thank you very much. appreciate your time. coming up -- >> this land is our land. this land is our land! this land is our land! >> we will talk to the author who was subjected to that harassment by white nationalists at a bookstore in washington, d.c. what a world. that's next. does this map show the

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this land is our land! this land is our land! this land is our land! this land is our land! >> on the same day a gunman opened fire at a synagogue in california, that was the scene at a bookstore in washington, d.c. a group of self-proclaimed white nationalists chanting "this land is our land" while interrupting the author of a book on whiteness. joining me now is that writer, jonathan metzel, director of the center of medicine, health and society at vanderbilt university and the author of "dying of whiteness: how the politics of racial resentment is killing ma america's heartland." >> thanks for having me. >> so you were doing the talk and -- >> i was in the middle of giving a book talk and this was a very friendly environment in

politics, and ironically in the moment of the talk where i was making the claim america is better when we are the most generous, strongest and inclusive, there was a man in the audience, 80-year-old man, who had been one of my father's host families who helped my father escape the nazis and get to the united states. so i was lauding this version of america that welcomes immigrants in. and everybody is facing me and i'm facing out and i see this well-organized -- very well-organized chain of eight or ten white men and women. there was a woman also who marched to the front. there was a guy in front with a bu bullhorn, and they were very well-orchestrated. they had a videographer with them and they came to the front of the group and started doing these chants. and, you know, saying this land is our land and keep america white. and, of course, i was giving a talk about whiteness and my book. and so initially i think people thought, is this part of the presentation? people were a little bit shocked in the beginning.

>> yeah. >> and then people were quite terrified. and then there was this remarkable moment of bravery where people in the crowd just started standing up and pushing back and people of all ages and backgrounds started booing and booing. and these guys went on with their performance, really. >> yeah. >> and after about five minutes, they left and, you know, the scary part was initially when we thought, you know, are they armed, is this something that will escalate. after that, people were quite brave at standing up and defending the integrity of what was happening. >> it's amazing how much it looked like the charlottesville march, other than the tiki torches, right? it was sort of a similar vein of this replacement theory, where you have this particular vein of white nationalists who believe that they have to fight immigrants and have to fight people of color and have to get rid of jewish people, because in their minds, they're being replaced. >> right. and one of the great ironies of this situation is that part of my book -- the main argument of my book is actually that white

americans, working-class white americans are in many ways being replaced. they're just not being replaced by immigrants. not being replaced by minorities. the threat to the health and longevity of working-class white americans comes from people like donald trump. and policies that in effect take money away from support systems like health care, roads, bridges and schools that support working-class people across the board. and give these huge tax cuts. and so part of -- again, the irony is, i was in a way making the same point. i was just saying, you're looking in the wrong place. >> in the wrong place. and isn't -- there's a thing that has happened since the announcement by the census that white americans would become a minority in the country, that the southern poverty law center said there is this rise of anxiety and that anxiety about white americans, about becoming a minority group and becoming the minority in the country is producing real effects, both in behaviors of extremists, but also even in health. >> right. i mean, you know, one of the shocking things about the research i did for the book was

to show that actually the politic -- really the policies that claim to make white americans great again and restore this dominance end up making white, working-class lives harder, sicker and in many instances shorter. and so in a way, the response to this is exactly the opposite of what should be happening, horizontal inclusive societies are much healthier societies. >> let's talk about the president of the united states who is -- he at least is not stopping. he's not standing up against this kind of thing. he re-upped and doubled down on his defense of himself after what he said in charlottesville and said, there are very fine people on both sides. and then came out and said he thought he answered perfectly. that that was a perfect answer. here is kellyanne conway this morning on cnn saying, yeah, that was perfect. >> when the president of the united states, donald trump, condemns white supremacy and neo nazis and kkk in the first couple months of his term and it is twisted around for almost two years for people's political --

>> he was talking about the people. i don't know who he was talking about, though. because here's my -- >> he made that very clear. it looks like you and others, looking at 2020, are worried that this guy can't be beaten fairly and squarely. why does joe biden come out and not say one thing about his senate race? >> they're fighting on the ground of just overtalking -- whoever is questioning them. and and insisting donald trump isn't doing that everyone can see what he's doing. why does that work on a substantial share? you know, a substantial share of white americans? >> it's in large part because he's telling them a narrative that's very familiar. the narrative is, it's not your fault. white america is under attack by immigrants and minorities. we need to defend what's ours. and so in that sense, there is this narrative that trump is tapping into. and even after the quotes from trump, there was a great article in the "post" for example, that talked about the charlottesville truthers and all this rearticulating about how this taps into this narrative. so i think a good part of the narrative is he's telling people -- telling people what

they want to hear and what sounds quite familiar and comfortable to them. >> yeah. jonathan metzel, definitely want to have you back to come and talk about your book called "dying of whiteness." i'm glad you guys were safe in that situation. up next, team trump hits the sunday shows with more alternative facts. ♪ ♪

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the time-honored tradition of championship sports teams being feted at the white house is slowing being replaced by another tradition, teams preemptively declining the president's invitation so as not to have to spend quality time and do photo ops with donald trump. the university of virginia men's basketball people which just won the ncaa championship title said the team would decline an invitation to celebrate their victory at the white house. their coach says it would just be too difficult logistically to get everyone together. i'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that uv a's campus is in charlottesville where white nationalists chanted "jews will not replace us" and heather heyer was mowed down and trump

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so when the president asked his former adviser and my former colleague at fox, kt mcfarland, to write an untruthful letter, knowing the government would subpoena it, that's obstruction of justice. when the president has corey lewandowski, his former campaign manager, to get mueller fired, that's obstruction of justice. when he asked his then white house counsel to get mueller fired and then lie about it, that's obstruction of justice.

when he asked don mcgahn to go back to the special counsel and change hiss testimony, that's obstruction of justice. when he dangled a pardon in front of michael cohen in order to keep cohen from testifying against him, that's obstruction of justice. breaking law to save him from the consequences of his own behavior, that is immoral, that is criminal, that is defenseless. and that is condemnable. >> wow. fox news pundit andrew napolitano daring to speak against the official line this week, prompting this response from the president of the united states. ever since andrew came to my office to ask to be appointed to the supreme court and i said no, he has been very hostile. back with me, tiffany cross, jason johnson. so tiffany, you have been on fox news. how unusual is it? how does andrew napolitano stay employed at that place, saying truth like that? >> i asked the same question

about shep smith, because he's another person. >> another one. >> who frequently speaks truth at that network. the other question is who is listening to him, do people receive it? i would argue no. there is a better home for napolitano in many other places if he ever wants to exit. i don't think he's penetrating that impenetrable layer of ignorance that the trump base which largely comprises the fox news audience listens to. and again, some of the things the other mouthpieces say on the network are demonstrably false. a quick google search can show you the truth of what the mueller report stated. so i think it's a really dangerous time to have him speaking into an empty echo chamber. there is nobody there to receive the truth or the sound he's spewing. i would wonder if they ever take any data or any polling among their viewers to see who they like, what their q ratings are. q ratings, as you know, where you resonate with audiences. i wonder where he resonates on

that. i don't think people are receptive. sure, his twitter feed mentions are not anything nice. >> probably just shouldn't read them. and so this morning, michael, on the sunday shows, kellyanne conway is out on the road. i'm declining to use it, because it's -- we played a little bit of it earlier. and when you hear what she is saying, we have this choice to make in the television side. >> yes. >> of whether or not we must play what she is saying, because she is the spokesperson for the administration. she is out there giving their side of the story. but what she is saying is so bluntly false that we then have to decide, do we have an obligation to hear her, or do we just know what we're -- that -- or would we be elevating what she is saying and simply disseminating it more? >> there's too much of the latter, unfortunately. and we were talking about it in the previous segment. she comes on and she -- you know, it's straight out of 1984, right? it's ignorance is strength, and

what are the others? freedom is slavery? >> yeah. we've always been at war with east asia. >> right, right. that's what she does. that's all she does. now, there have been times, admirable times where she has been directly confronted and called on it on some cable networks. and then what happens then? >> yeah. >> then there is this huge hubbub on fox. >> right. >> and in the right wing echo chamber she is being treated unfairly. >> she's being attacked by being confronted with the actual truth. so let's -- let me go to you, jason. lindsey graham was also out. it's similar. lindsey is a flack for donald trump. that's what he decided he needs to be to be re-elected in south carolina or whatever reason, he's donald trump's best friend and out there to defend him. but this is the guy who in 1999 was an impeachment manager against bill clinton. so i want to play these two lindsey grahams. because they are really two different people. i'm not sure they ever met. maybe they should be introduced to one another so they can have a chat. let's start by playing previous lindsey graham. this is -- there's a democrat in

the white house lindsey graham back in 1999. >> you don't say, we're going to commit perjury at noon, don't be late. we're going to obstruct justice at 1:00, don't be late. he doesn't have to say go lie for me for it to be a crime. you don't have to say let's obstruct justice for it to be a crime. you judge people on their conduct, not magic phrases. >> all right. and hopefully maybe the two of them are both watching so they can see each other and realize they're twins like that movie, "three identical strangers." here is lindsey graham from today on "face the nation." >> i think the idea that this president obstructed justice is absurd. he turned over a million documents to the special counsel, almost everybody around him testified. i don't care what he said to don mcgahn. it's what he did. the president never obstructed -- >> it doesn't matter to you that the president is changing a version of a -- some would say lying. if you're. >> if you're going to look at every president who pops off at

a staff and ask them to do something that's maybe crazy, we won't have many presidents. >> i'm told by my great producers right after that interview, jason, he went golfing, this lindsey graham, with donald trump. your witness. >> you know, i love this. donald trump, if there is nothing else he knows how to do, he apparently has some magical mind power that he gets people to sort of, like, split in half. there's, like, pretrump kanye and post trump kanye. >> yeah! >> prelindsey graham -- i don't know what magic he's got, right? so the problem with this is that it's not just -- it's not just the sort of mind split, but people pretend this evidence isn't out there. they pretend -- unfortunately, so many news people act as if -- you know lindsey graham? no, lindsey, this is completely different than what you said before. so explain to me the difference. that's sometimes what i think we're missing in the news discussion. not that people are saying these crazy things out of both sides of their mouth, but not confronted with the contradictions they have established. >> that's all i want to see, is a lindsey graham interview in

which he is playing 1999 clips. >> and we haven't seen that. and a reminder, we don't have to go back that far. let's go to 2016 when trump mitch-slapped him all over tv and gave his cell phone number out to everybody. >> play that back! >> right? what happened to you. it's like he was sprinkled with trump powder and all of a sudden it was like, i worship, i love you, i'm with you. it's embarrassing. and you do wonder -- i personally, truly wonder. what does trump have on these people? does he know a secret about you? some sort of financial impropriety that he roped you into something? because there is no way that a rational-thinking, seeing, hearing person, that can go from 2016 lindsey graham, 1989 lindsey graham to today's lindsey graham. >> you do if you want to go to south carolina. >> he's being challenged by harris down there. we'll see how it goes. >> we'll see. >> it's all kind of amusing, but this part of the lindsey graham story is not amusing. he chairs the senate judiciary committee. >> he does. >> and he's going to use the power of that committee over this next however many months,

right up as close as he can to election, to try and discredit the fbi investigation into trump in the first place. >> yeah. >> people watching this show should know that next month or the following month maybe, the report of the department of justice inspector general, michael horwitowitz is going to coming out and say whether there's improper behavior in that investigation. if there is one sentence in there that they can pluck and use as a justification for hearings, endless hearings. so then there will be four hearings. >> there is some counter balance. they don't say they don't have subpoena power, but you have mazie hirono and cory booker. they don't have the gavel, so it's hard. >> but the thing -- during watergate, those watergate hearings we see on tv where john dean is giving that blaockbuste testimony that helped to bring richard nixon down, those were in a senate select committee. that was not in the united states senate. it was not in the house judiciary committee where impeachment emerges. so now what you have is the possibility, and they keep

telegraphing it. that what lindsey graham might do to michael's point, is conduct hearings, what they think will be blockbuster hearings to help donald trump's election on the investigators. dragging fbi people in front. dragging jim comey in front of the senate. one could imagine lindsey graham using his power to conduct those kinds of hearings or maybe just go back and get hillary clinton. >> exactly. and here's the thing, joy. knowing what the republicans are likely to do -- look, lindsey graham got on national television last year and defended a multiply accused potentially sexual assault or at least harasser brett kavanaugh. it doesn't matter who he's trying to defend. it's fascinating, given that republicans might try something like that next summer, why are democrats in the house so afraid of impeachment? at least under those circumstance, they will be making real substantive arguments and stretching out what we know now from the mueller report so that voters can make a choice. democrats always act afraid.

lindsey graham has no problem putting himself out there for this president, for his own political future. and that's a mistake. you have one side that's playing to win and another side that is playing by an old set of rules that don't apply any more. >> if not appointing their own special prosecutor. there is nothing that -- you need to use your lurid imagination. the republicans are not going to be afraid to put on a show trial of hillary clinton or a show trial of andrew mccabe or a show trial of the fbi and general. that could happen while the democrats are saying, well, you know, people might get mad if we have impeachment. >> yeah, you know, i mean -- i'm a little bit of a soft person on this question of impeachment. i have mixed feelings about it. but i will say this. like, if it continues to be the case that they don't answer these subpoenas and they just won't send in tax returns and mcgahn won't testify and miller won't testify and this one won't testify and they just ignore everything the democrats do,

that's a really, really serious -- that's a new bar. >> yeah. >> that's a separation of powers question. that's -- you know, there's 100-something years of precedent that says congressional investigations like this are absolutely legitimate. that's really very serious. >> it's all these so-called patriots who perpetuate this ridiculous. you are not a patriot when you actually support and cheer on this type of behavior. >> well, watch "vice," the unitary executive theory. where they believe the president is king. it's an extraordinary movie. thank you very much. coming up next, our guests will tell us about the week. will tell us about the week. helps keep me feeling dry,

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upcoming election for what it is. the soul of america. it is a very, very important time in our history where we either stop the flow of flow of authoritarianism, which will take root if trump wins the next election. and he positioned his campaign that way. that to me -- now, whether he gets the nomination, i don't know. but i do believe that he has positioned himself the best to win if he gets the nomination. >> and you're talking about the charlottesville -- >> the charlottesville video and then he also, you know, got $6.3 million in the first 24 hours and a good hire that he made with symone sanders. >> pinched her from bernie sanders. >> that was a good move. i just think he has positioned this race where it needs to be. >> do you think that he handled the anita hill situation correctly? because he did try a couple of times to talk to her. it didn't go well apparently.

she sort of came back. what do you think? >> the problem is the anita hill wasn't handled at the beginning. and you know, that's the original sin. and i don't think there's much you can do about that. it was a different time. there were all white men. and even the african-american caucus voted for thomas. so it was a different time. he has some sins but all the candidates do. they're all flawed. and to me we have to go all in on whoever gets the nomination. my feeling is that he has the best position to beat trump. if he can get through the primary. >> quickly before i get your who won week, tiffany, do you think that biden is going to have more baggage than maybe some of the others just because he's been in the game a long time? >> he's got a long legislative record to defend. i do think to your point there's some danger in judging him in 2019 through 19 -- for what he did in 1989, through the present-day lens. he did hire michelle kwan, who i

also think is a great hire, came from the hillary clinton camp. the figure skater. but it's going to be a challenge. but look, any of these people on the left are phenomenally better than the travesty we have in the current white house. i think you have to remember they're not running against donald trump, they're running against each other. i will say again elizabeth warren has the most policy substantive campaign out tlp. it's going to be really hard not having a kamala harris on the ticket in this election. >> i agree. and to me that's the best ticket right there. >> biden-harris. people say it all the time. >> or harris-biden. but i don't know if you want to do that job twice. >> i don't think he wants to be eternal viermt. although a lot of americans would be like joe, be eternal vice president. tiffany cross, who won the week? >> my who won the week from your neck of the woods. california state senator holly j. mitchell. first of all, i had a chance to speak with her on a panel at south by southwest and she was very impressive. i think we're going to see a lot from her. i think she's going to extend

beyond the california state legislature but this week she pushed a bill through the senate that says you can no longer discriminate based on someone's hairstyle. now, this matters particularly to me because it's really directed towards black people and their hair. and there are still people who are fired, discriminated against, not promoted, passed over for promotions because of the way they wear their hair. we all remember when that high school student, the wrestler, had to cut his locks. it was tragic to watch this child be humiliated because of the way he wore his hair. the bill passed the is that the, voted unanimously, and it's so hard to explain how an attitude of european beauty standards and how we are expected to meet them across every -- in every facet. we could probably do a whole hour's show on this. but in this particular instance how it impacts our policy when we appear on tv, when we show up for job interviews. >> or go through the tsa.

>> exactly. >> i don't have that problem. the hair issue is not a big problem for me. but i understand it is. >> it's a major issue. and i just want to say joy won the week because where else can we talk about all this policy and black women's hair? >> you always win. >> it's a little bit of an advantage, i might have a little bit. and i will say back when i was a young woman i can remember back in the '90s being told by a person who i was going to like the agency that's would send you out to try to get a job tell me my hairstyle which was in braids at the time, i thought it was quite fly, was unprofessional and i need to change it. >> they just changed the rules in the army that women could wear their hair in braids. our friend angela wise criticized for wearing cornrows. >> absolutely. but can we get somebody to invent a tsa machine that we can go through with braids in your hair and not have people rifling through your afro, your braids? can we stop that? my who won the week, of course it is the right answer because -- >> it's got to be.

>> slight advantage. i'm going to pick amial allison. and also jessica bird. the folks who put together "she the people" in my view won the week because i have to tell you, this forum that aimee and i co-moderated has generated so many headlines. they manage to get eight of the 20 now, there were 19 at the time, presidential contenders to show up. and major top-tier candidates to show up to speak to an audience of women of color and answer their questions. it was a phenomenal event and also texas southern university got some love as it well should. it was a packed house. i mean, to the rafters. people were all the way up in the balcony. and i thought it was a solid forum. i think people did a good job. if you guys had a chance to see it, do you think that anybody came out of it with any mo? >> again, elizabeth warren. she knocks it out -- when you ask her questions on policy, she's been doing this a long time. you can ask her anything. she's ready to defend it. look, i think going in obviously senator harris has the advantage because it's an audience that

she connects with. look, when we ge through, this i want to say to bernie sanders a lot of people are confused why are they booing him? people outside the community. and i think people get a little -- it's a turnoff when you say i marched with king. people want to know what are you doing now? >> and i will say to go to rob reiner to my friend who does this better than almost anyone else. inspiration is important in politics. >> it is. >> senator harris got up there and gave an inspirational talk. >> she's inspirational. buttigieg is inspirational. beto's inspirational. so is joe biden. so is bernie sanders. they're all inspirational. and you do need that element. >> you've got to have that. it's policy yes but you've got into spire and that's one of the things that candidates need to do. tichb any cross rob reiner thank youing very much. you guys both won the week. and more after the break. you guys both won the week and more after the break asterpi. and...whatever this was. because we make our meat with the good of the deli and no artificial preservatives. make every sandwich count

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