good evening and welcome to politics nation. tonight's lead on this sunday evening, americans of all faiths and none are grieving over the loss of life. the brutality we saw yesterday in california. the fears that many others and i initially had had been born out by the investigations thus far. one woman is dead. three people are wounded. the 19-year-old suspect in custody alleged to have been inspired by the attacks on two new zealand mosques last month and exactly six months prior to the attack. that horrific mass shooting at a synagogue in pittsburg. authorities are reporting that life the pittsburg shooter, the

suspect posted a quote open letter on a popular far right message board just before the attack. in short, these reports confirm that it was indeed an anti-se m anti-semetic hate crime that we saw on yesterday. the latest of several such attacks committed in the united states in the last three years. and on president trump's watch. the president condemned the shooting. commendable perhaps but confusing just a day after he defended n terks o nrz nazis at the 2017 rally in charlottesville, virginia that also killed a woman. my question tonight, is how can the president condemn hate in one breath and continue to defend those that act on it in

another? joining me now danielle moody mills. republican strategist and constitutional law attorney and eugene scott. we are anticipating a press conference with the injured rabbi from yesterday's shooting in california. let me go to you first. how does the president who had just doubled down on friday about a clear anti-semitic march in charlottesville where they yelled jews will not replace us. where they yelled blood and soil are nazi term and turn around the next day and condemn anti-semitism. how do republicans reconcile this 24 hour flip? >> i don't think the president

has done anything to praise someone who shot a bunch of people in a mosque like he never did it with the synagogue the other day. the problem we have to face is unfarnts lip we do have a society where people are going to do horrible things and instead of turning anything into politics, we have to deal with the issues of why these things are occurring. regardless of whether the place of worship is a synagogue, every one should feel safe. the fact the places are becoming targets is a deeper conversation we need to have. because someone uses rhetoric, doesn't justify violence. >> there was a young lady killed in charlottesville prior to him saying there were good people on both sides. we are talking about him saying good people on both sides. what good people on the side of those marching to keep up a con fed rat general statue who had fought an attempted coup to keep

slavery in this country? >> i think you can use the same rhetoric with most of the politicians and leaders we ha had throughout america. >> we are not talking about most. we are talking about donald trump. >> rhetoric and words does not equal violence. someone saying something horrible to me does not justify me shooting up a church. whatever the man thought is because that human being is disgusting. >> danielle, let me ask you -- >> it's sad because this man has to take responsibility for his actions instead of all the speech and rhetoric that both sides are saying. >> it's not both sides. >> danielle, let me ask you because, i repeat. when donald trump made the statement about good people on both sides. there was a person that had been killed in charlottesville. not withstanding that and i'm not saying he incited that but he did not come out and strongly

condemn the people that had went with these attacks and what i'm saying is, he attacked anti-semitism on yesterday. that is not how he responded to charlottesville. there's 180 degree turn in how he's responding. >> the reality is this. the president incites violence. he does. his rhetoric is very, very obvious and clear to the people that follow him. the idea this president has talked about good people on both sides, has had conversations at rallies, inciting rough them up a little bit. >> i'll pay your legal bills. >> it's a lie because he lies all the time. rough them up. he was in front of the suffolk county police department, if you

catch a criminal, it's okay if you rough them up. it's no longer a dog whistle, it's a bull horn. it's totally problematic. we continue to say the president isn't radicalizing anyone, it's just words. it's not just words. when he talks about undocumented people animals, putting people in cages. when he's using this language, he's radicalizing people. we see the reports. hate crimes are on the rise under donald trump. >> i think that's the real point eugene that hate crimes are on the rise and this is where i agree with shelby. this whole idea of coming after houses of worship which are

supposedly houses of refuge whether it's a synagogue, mosque or three churches burned down in louisiana that have been charged as hate crimes. we're in a serious climate where people are not feeling safe going to houses of worship based on hate targeted attacks. >> absolutely. one of the real challenges that the president has is that no one is looking to him and finding someone delivering words of comfort in this moment. he's not been described as a comfo comforter in chief among all the other ways people view this president. this has real implications for 2020. we know that after charlottesville, more than 60% of voters said they believe that president trump isssupremacists groups, whether not he does, most voters think

he does. he's going have to encourage the independents who voted for him. >> shelby, don't you think a president and any public office holder and for that matter public figures should denounce any form of hate violence regardless as to who the targets may be if it's a hate crime and violent, dwroinon't you think t have a responsibility to speak clearly and uncompromising ways about this. >> yes. of course. we should all the -- >> how do you explain the president saying anything about the three churches? i was asking the rest of my question. how do you explain the president as not address the three churches burned in louisiana that has been designated hate crime and he's not tweeted or said anything. >> i can't explain it. i don't work for the administration. i would encourage people to ask

their communications team why they haven't. he should. regardless of what they say or don't say, i think there's way too much focus and talk on we need our president to stand there and give a speech. we have all had -- regardless of whether you're on the right or left, everybody in this kun think is sick of a speech and a conversation around gun violence. people want solutions. >> i said in the first part of my question, i said should they condemn it. he could condemn it by tweet or any way. >> i said yes. >> no one is saying he needs to necessarily make a speech but clearly when you have -- what you saw in new zealand, what we saw yesterday, which was despicable and horrific and what you see in louisiana, the asbestos sen absence of a statement or tweet is fwlar iglaring. that's not political. that's factual. >> i agree with a what you're saying. now that he says a statement, now what? would that change anyone's

opinion of donald trump. i don't think he cares. >> it will change people's opinion of him. >> i don't think anyone's people opinion would change. >> who cares whether opinions change on him. >> he's the president of the yiet. when a tragedy happens, it shouldn't matter who is the victim. three black churches are burned by a white supremacists. the president says nothing which says to me everything i need know about this president and how he feels about people of color in this country, specifically black people. they are not worthy of a conversation. it's not worth it for him to go on television or to tweet because he does that all day, every day to say that white supremacy is a problem in this country. my hearts and prayers or whatever else he gives out are with the people of louisiana who lost three century old churches. it matters. that's the responsibility. we have lost so much focus, so

much integrity of this office and what a president is supposed to do because donald trump has totally flipped the script in all the wrong ways. we should expect our president to stand up for all people, not just the 30% of his base that vote for him. >> as we look at the politics that is going on, don't you think voters are very concerned about the climate of hate crimes on the rise. no matter what you are. the rise of this and the fact we're seeing houses of worship targeted has got to be a concern to many voters that are now beginning in the early stages to focus on what ultimately will be the 2020 elections. >> absolutely. if you look at polling and see what voters care about most and have the biggest problems with with this current

administration, it's the president's tone. it's his temperament. it's his behavior. people are looking for leaders who can provide solutions to these real problems. we know his approval ratings are in the 30%. not because so many americans disagree with his policies although a lot of americans do but they disagree with how he handles things, how reresponspo things. i do believe the president could see more support and approval for his administration and prove if he did say words that encouraged people and provided people some type of belief that he really did want to see a decrease in hate in this country. the problem is he usually does the exact opposite. >> all right. my panel is back for more. first we're monitoring a press conference that's about to begin any moment with the rabbi who survived yesterday's shooting at

a synagogue. also bill barr is threatening to cancel his appearance at this week's house judiciary hearing on the mueller report and investigation. can he legally do that? we'll be right back. can he legally do that we'll be right back.

welcome back.

congress returns to washington this week and the democratic controlled house is ready to go head to head with president trump. the president so far has stone walled the house investigations by refusing multiple requests for documents and interviews and also filed suit to try and stop a subpoena. today we learned attorney general william barr putting the brakes on a scheduled testimony on capitol hill this week. what should democrats do? what should the democrats response be to now this putting

on brakes by attorney general barr that he may not testify on this thursday. >> first of all, i don't think the president has these choices. he has obviously his own version of the truth. he invents facts when ever he would like. he doesn't have the right to his own version of the constitution. we have an oversight responsibility. we have a check on the presidency. that's not just because we want to. that's because that's the design of our system of government. we have balance of powers. he can't decide because it gets uncomfortable or maybe we're getting too close to some of the truths he's trying to protect the american people from learning about that he's not going to have the kind of scrutiny that the institution, the framers of this constitution demand that we place on him. the one message i would give is

the truth is going to come out. it's going to come out. >> congressman, the fact that we are framed by the constitution would co-equal three branches of government. if the president and those that he's appointed as including the attorney general can defy the congress making inquiries, are we headed into a constitutional crisis where the executive branch feels they do not have to answer or be held accountable to the legislative branch? >> that is what is at stake. we're not going to roll over. if this heads to the courts, i'm confident that they will rule for congress. every previous administration has come plplied with the reque. hillary clinton was in front of

the benghazi committees. obama still produced documents. he still appeared. it's unprecedented. we have a lot of things we can do. we can hold folks in contempt. we have have the sergeant of arms go aftersomeone. i want you to listen to salliuatsally yates and what she said. >> i've prosecuted obstruction cases on far less. if we were not the president, he would be indicted. >> she said if he were not president, she feels he would be indicted for obstruction.

she's going forward as a prosecutor with less evidence. we are talking about obstructing justice inquiring on whether a foreign adversarial government interfered with an american election. we're talking about the basics of what this country was founded on, at least in writing and we're acting as if this is some civil case. >> this is an extraordinary set of circumstances. i've been going through the mueller report line by line. what she has to say aligns with what i see. it's a harsh contradiction to what mr. barr tried to do and that's characterize the report as an exoneration. not only is it not an exoneration, the mueller report makes it clear that this is not an exoneration. not only has he not been cleared of obstruction of justice, mr.

mueller says that the obstruction evidence is being submitted to congress and rather than making a charging decision it's up to congress to analyze this information and make what will be obviously a very tough decision in terms of how we go forward. this is by no means of exoneration. this is what is said in plain language, this is not an exoneration. it says there was no evidence of collusion but we cannot say that the president is exonerated of obstruction and one could suggest if they had not been obstruction, we don't know what evidence they may have uncovered that could have even led further to collusion. we just don't know what we don't

know. >> you're right. what should concern every american is you have the president of the united states ordering his subordinates to do illegal things. they defied him and don mcgahn didn't fire mueller but you have donald trump sitting there plotting, even going to his former campaign aide asking his aides to subvert democracy and do things illegal. we need to do our job. we need to have people testify. public sentiment is empg. we need to make the case to the american people why this is such a violation of our basic democra democracy. >> the argument that we're told between the attorney general barr and the head of the house judiciary committee, congressman nadler is the way the testimony

would go down in terms of how many minutes, who would question, how would question. you're on ways and means. have you seen the back and forth and threatening that i will not show up if the format is not the the liking of the witness. >> this goes to the heart of the problem. president trump and the people around him think they get to dictate the terms of everything. as congressman pointed out, sometimes people have to testify when it's uncomfortable. he pointed out that secretary clinton sat for hours and too questions and answered those questions. look, the american people want to know the truth. congress will have some decisions to make when the facts all come to light. the most important principal at stake here is that people understand what is going on in their government.

the fact this president ordered people around him to break the law and then to have attorney general barr try to paper that over as if it was some sort of a traffic ticket, he has some questions to answer. he has to answer those questions from the people's representatives. they don't get to decide what kind of questions and in what form those questions are answered. this is the constitution at play. this is the constitution at work. this is not some meeting of the board of direct tors at the condo association of mar-a-lago. >> when you look at the four page summation that the attorney general released and you look at the redacted report that came out, is it clear there's a clear gap between what he said and what the report said and we haven't seen the full report and is that one of the critical

things he should be questioned about this week. >> i think you're being diplomatic by calling it a gap. i would say it was blatant misrepresentation. if i were barr, i would be concerned about appearing before the house judiciary committee as well. he risks perjuring himself. he will have to explain why he wouldn't allow the full report to come out. he will have to explain why he has these misrepresentations. he's not donald trump. he doesn't have millions of followers and what with ve seen is the collateral damage in the trump administration is the subordinates are the ones who get in trouble. that's why barr is so hesitant to come before this committee. >> all right. let me thank you both. we're monitoring the press conference that's about to begin in any moment with the rabbi who survived ye ed yesterday's shoo. guess which state is making

it harder for voters to vote. i'll tell you after the break. ve i'll tell you after the break. we are now watch iing in

california as the rabbi will come forward and address the media. people are looking with sympathy and all kinds of concerns. six months to the day after a vicious attack at a pittsburgh synagogue. let's go to break. we'll be right back. gue. let's go to break. we'll be right back. yesss, i'm doing it all. the water. the exercise. the fiber. month after month, and i still have belly pain and recurring constipation. so i asked my doctor what else i could do, and i said yesss to linzess. linzess treats adults with ibs with constipation or chronic constipation.

linzess is not a laxative, it works differently. it helps relieve belly pain and lets you have more frequent and complete bowel movements. let's go live now and listen to the rabbi who was injured in the shooting. >> good afternoon. we're here together standing on sacred property. a synagogue, a house of prayer where 24 hours ago saw terrorism in the worth of way. yesterday was the last day of

passover. passover we celebrate our freedom, our independence from slavery. yesterday was a day we came together for memorial service for the past generations. my wife and i came here 33 years ago. this was an empty piece of land. i was 24 years old. she was 20 years old. we dedicated our life to do good for humanity. we built this community center with the help of all of our members and our supporters and our philanthropists. it was no easy task. we built it with it should be a warm home, a welcoming home, a safe home that people from all walks of life can come and partake in all of our programs.

from our pre-school, synagogue, our wonderful friendship circle serving children with specific needs. this is what we're all about. after 33 years we did not expect what happened here yesterday. i was preparing for my sermon. i wanted out of the sanctuary and i walked into the lobby and i met my dear friend lori kaye. a blessed memory. she came here because her mother recently passed away and she wanted to honor her mother at the memorial service. she invited her daughter hannah to come and sit with her, her only daughter who drove down from l.a. to be with her mother for the memorial service. she looks at me in the lobby. she says what time is the

memorial service. i told her at 11:30. i went to my office to freshen up. i came back and lori is there. for those of us who know lori, know that she is a person of unconditional love. i have known her for close to 25 years. she was a pioneer member from our congregation. she used to work for wells fargo. she helped secure us the loan for this building which is a very difficult task in the early '90s. she was one that went out of her way to always be there for those in need. one of our members wooives was diagnosed with breast cancer, she took i upon herself to drive her to every single doctors appointment. to be there for the children. lori had unconditional love for all. she was the most kindest,

genero generousest, and a great loyal friend which you don't find much these days. we were there when their only daughter was born, hannah and they were like brothers and sisters to us. two weeks ago our youngest daughter got married. they flew to new york to dance with us at this wedding. we just looked at the picture of the bride and lori dancing together so beautifully. here we are in the lobby on one of the holiest days of the year, the last day of passover, smiling another each other and i walk into the banquet hall to wash my hands. i walk two, three footsteps when i hear a loud bang. i thought lori may have fell or the table tipped over in the lobby right here. i turn around and ipse a sight

that i -- undescribable. here is a young man standing with a rifle pointing right at me. i look at him. he had sun gaglasses on. i couldn't see his eyes. i couldn't see his soul. i froze. my first concern was what's with lori. where did that noise come from? what's happened to lori. i do that and take a look and more shots came running right at me. i lifted up my hands. i lost my index finger on this hand after four hours of surgery. i turn around and i saw the children that were playing in the banquet hall. i ran to gather them together. my granddaughter, four and a half years old sees her grandpa

with a bleeding hand and she sees me screaming and shouting get out, get out. he didn't deserve to see her grandfather like this. i ushered all the children out. he's only two familiar with these types of saeps. ran into the banquet hall, gathered more children. he got a bullet in his leg risks himself to save the children. little noah who was hit by shrapnel in her leg and very close to her eye and thank god she's well and noah has been discharged from the hospital and they are in recovery. the gun jammed and in attendance at the synagogue, there was a border patrol off duty agent, mr. jonathan morales who

recently discovered his jewish routes. he would travel three and a half hours from el centro to pray with us. he felt this is his house of worship. many of times i would say jonathan, you work for the border patrol, please arm yourself when you are here. we never know when we'll need it. as soon as the gun jammed, and as soon as the shouting was going on, he jumped up. in pursuit. oscar stood, a former soldier jumped into action. he tried to tackle down the gunman. the gunman just exited, ran away. got into his car. this is all from hearsay. i didn't see it. jonathan pursued him and was able to discharge his weapon and got the car a few times.

after the shooter left, this terrorist left, i turn around to assess the situation. i walk into the lobby and i see lori laying on the floor unconscious. her dear husband, dr. howard kaye was like a brother to me is trying to resuscitate her and he faints and he's laying there on the floor next to his wife. then the daughter hannah comes out screaming, daddy and mommy. it's the most heart wrenching sight i could have seen. i was frozen in time. i grabbed a prayer shawl. wrapped my arm, my fingers with it that was just hanging, dangling and bleeding all over the place. my congregation was gathered

outside here. i said i got to do something. i got up on a chair right there and i looked at our congregation and i said, we are a jewish nation that will stand tall. we will not let anyone or anything take us down. terrorism like this will not take us down. we just came from passover. we sang a song that god has protected us that in every generation they rise up against us but god will protect us. yesterday, horrific terrible event that's occurred here. my own interpretation, lori took the bullet for all of us. she died to protect all of us. she didn't deserve to die. she's such a kind, sweethearted, just a good human being. she didn't deserve to die right in front of my eyes.

i was the last one to see her and to be with her but i do know that this is lori. this is her legacy and her legacy will continue. it could have been so much worse. if the sequence of events didn't happen the way it happened. it could have been a much worse massacre. i grew up in brooklyn, new york. i grew up with limb. he taught me that we need to battle darkness with light. no matter how dark the world is, we need to think of light. a little bit of light pushes away a lot of darkness. a will the of light will push away much more. he would say we all need to teach every where you know no matter what religion you're from. we need to do random acts of kindness. we need to toilet tilt the scal. you and i have the ability to

change. i will never forget yesterday. my missing finger will forever scar me, physically, but it's going to remind me how vulnerable we are and how heroic each one of us can be. we're all created in god's im e image. we're all partners in creation no matter what faith or religion you're from, we all have to make this world a better place to prevent this from ever happening again. to this, i want to thank our dear mayor. i've been living here my whole life since i got married. our children grew up here. now our grand children are growing up here. this is literally, i felt my safest place. growing up in brooklyn, new york was not a safe place. i came here because i knew it was a safe place and it still is in safest place. no matter what happens, we are going to keep our freedom tight

an close to us. we're going to stand tall. we're going to grow from it. i also want to thank our sheriff's department who has been absolutely incredible from the very first call and their response, i've enjoyed being a chaplain for the sheriff department for close to 20 years. he told me what my mission is going to be is to have to be there for the deputies and give them the optimism, the positive feeling that the world is yet going to be better place. i want to take note for other of the victims who have suffered yesterday, physically, emotionally, spiritually. the best we can do to combat is to grow, build and be stronger and stronger and stronger. yes, every single one of us can do that. i look around at the cameras that are here. the message needs to be brought out to the public. how does a 19-year-old, a

teenager, have the audacity, the sickness, the hatred to publicize such anti-semitism in his manifesto. how does he come here to a house of worship to do what he did. we need to think about what are we teaching our children. we need to perhaps consider reintroducing in our public school system a moment of silence where children can start the day with pausing and thinking why am i created. why am i here and what am i going to do. i hope we can grow from this and we can become stronger from this. i want to thank our neighboring churches to see religions come together and support is the

warmest hug we could have ever gotten. to be able to be together and show unity and solidarity. i want to thank all of my fellow priests, ministers who have been here with me. who have pulled me here and shielded me. we're so grateful for that. the community has set up a go fund me account to help us through this very difficult time and we're certain that san diego will be able to participate and do your part in helping us rebuild an get back on our feet. i want to take this opportunity to bless every one here with blessings of long life, great health and let's look for peace. yesterday, i was going to read the prophesy of isaiah. tf it was that the world will see better days. it's reality. we pray for it to happen.

one good deed at a time will make that happen. i'm appealing to all of our fellow jewish members of our faith and others. this friday night, this saturday, go to your synagogue. we need to fill up those rooms. we need to show them that terrorism, evil will never prevail. let's fill up the synagogues. let's stand tall. let's dance together and for our jewish people who haven't been to synagogue in a long time, this is the time to do it. it's a personal request for myself. come to synagogue this weekend just to show solidarity and god will i spinspire you and bless . you should no longer have to have such press conferences but only greater and better times for all man kind should happen. amen. >> can i ask you a question?

>> as i was in my house, i received a personal phone call from our president donald trump. i was amazed to answer the phone and say the secretary of the white house was calling. he spent close to 10, 15 minutes to me on the phone. it's the first time i've spoken to a president of the united states of america. he gave me condolences on behalf of the united states of america. we spoke about the moment of silence. he spoke about his love of peace and judaism in israel and he was so comforting. i'm grateful to our president for taking the time and making that effort to share with us his comfort and consolation. i'm open for any questions. >> you said this could have been a lot worse.

can you expand on that? the gun got jammed. >> i'm not an expert in this field. from what i have observed that he was standing right there in the lobby. he was aiming at me in the banquet hall but he could have, as easily turned left, gone into the sanctuary where the seats were full for the memorial service and he could have used all of his clips that he had and it could have been such a blood bath. i don't want to think about how that would be. >> i think we're going to wait for the questions till the end. we'll get comments and at the end get some questions. >> i'd like to ask our sheriff representative. >> my name is jeffrey duckworth. i'm the captain here for the city. our hearts go out to your

congregation. we will be conducting extra patrols in and around not only the synagogue but all of the religious establishments in our city and be reaching out to all of our people in the city and assuring them we are here for them and we appreciate being here and being able to help serve. that's what we're here for. we are sorry for your loss. >> thank you. >> has the gunman been charged? >> i'm not going to talk about anything going on right now. the sheriff's department homicide unit is in charge of the investigation and any press releases that they send out, we'll let them do that. [ inaudible question ] >> absolutely. >> you came face-to-face with the shooter. did he say something to you? >> one second. i'm going to ask our mayor.

please hold your questions. >> we love you. this whole community loves you. we'll be there with you. >> we'll take two questions. >> did the shooter say anything as he entered the synagogue ? did you say anything to him? >> i did not see him enter. the first shot, i didn't hear him say anything. >> you said you -- is that true. >> what was that? >> your congregation has trained

for active shooting se flacensc. is that true? >> the city had a conference that i attended. they were talking about the active shooters. >> how did that help you yesterday? >> tremendously. they evacuated so well. we have so many exit doors that are so effective that people really -- they ducked down and they crawled out to safe areas. >> have they reached out to you. have the suspect's family reached out? >> that will be it for now. i want to make one announcement for every one. 7:00 p.m. at valverde park there will be a candle light vigil. you're welcome to attend. >> tomorrow will be the funeral for lori kaye. >> where is that? >> it will be probably the hardest day of my career. it will be 2:00 right over here.

there's a common expression of paying last respects at a funeral. there's no last respects over here. tomorrow we're going to salute lori. we're going to salute her life, and we're going to keep her legacy alive, the legacy of goodness and kindness. and our heart goes out to her husband howard and her daughter, hannah. and the show of support from the whole community has been exceedingly comforting to them, and i think you all. >> rabbi, thank you for speaking with us. >> you have been listening to rabbi goldstein who was injured in yesterday's shooting in

poway, california. he made a very passionate plea for people of all faiths to come together. the way to deal with darkness is to bring light. and i think all of us should adhere to that and examine ourselves to do whatever we can. hearing him with this impassioned plea and to hear him recount lori gilbert-kaye who lost her life, he said gave her life for everyone. the closeness of her husband, howard, and daughter, hannah, with the rabbi's family, i don't know anyone listening who could not have been touched and could not have been moved by this heart wrenching recollection of the events of yesterday by the rabbi who lost his index finger in a vicious hate crime and lost a dear friend of his synagogue and congregation.

my panel is back, radio host danielle mills, shelby immet, and eugene scott. danielle, as i sat there listening to him, and as we keep seeing these hate crimes and attacks on how isuses of worshi and to hear the rabbi standing there bandaged up explaining what happened. and what struck me when he said what are we teaching our children, a 19-year-old? where did this come from? i think it is something that all of us, whatever religious faith we may have or if we don't have a faith have to really pause and say, wait, a minute. this is not politics now. this is not the mistakes that have been made. we've got to deal with humanity and how we deal with humanity's

way of dealing with humanity. >> it's just so troubling that for many young people that these are common headlines now, that they know that they're unsafe, right? they're unsafe when they're at school because of mass shootings. mass shootings are happening at schools, churches, movie theaters, concerts, everywhere. and we have a government that doesn't do anything about it. it's an ar-15 that was used again, right? every single time that we have had a mass shooting, it has been an ar-15. but yet we have a president that just spoke at the nra's conference celebrating them. so, there's no political will here to do anything about this. and hopes and prayers are all that are offered. and we need to think about what we are teaching our children. what kind of world are we creating for them when we tell them that we can't do anything, that it's okay to have little kids do red alert drills to hide

from gunmen rather than create senseful gun laws? >> you know, shelby, the rabbi also said we should have a moment of silence and reflection at schools. he said he talked to the president. and i think that is what a religious and moral leader should do. but shouldn't government also look at gun legislation and look at how do we protect houses of worship? there is also a governmental response, no matter who's in office, republican or democrat. i think that we cannot normalize houses of worship under these kinds of attacks. >> i completely agree with you. i thought what the rabbi said with the moment of silence was probably one of the best short term policy positions we can take right now. i know it doesn't seem like much, but i thought what he offered of this idea -- his quote was "we need to ask ourselves how does a 19-year-old

say, don't ask why was i created" i think there's a role of faith itself and most people feeling lost now in terms of specific policy situations, look we already do background checks. we already do all these things. i think the image is right. the idea is right that if we take away guns, it's going to stop all these things. it's not going to happen. what you're seeing here and seeing around the country is that a lot of churches, synagogues, and mosques are doing a more aggressive approach here. and that's starting to train their own congregations to be armed. in my church we've talked about this. are we going to have people in the front of the church be armed. i think it's sad to get to that point. but i think it's sad telling people taking away guns is going to solve the problem when you see that's not happening in europe. in charlottesville, that wasn't a gun. that was a car. telling people getting rid of guns is going to solve the problem is a great talking

point, but it's not going to solve the issue. >> eugene, i think i've heard people say in the midst of this debate that taking away guns doesn't solve the problem. people are the ones shooting guns. guns don't shoot themselves. but you can't shoot a gun you don't have. and ar-15s and others are not just regular guns. military-style weapons and all are not necessary to regular civilians. and how does a house of worship -- i'm a minister. how does anyone prepare for a 19-year-old young man walking in the church? what does a terrorist supposed to look like? what is the profile? you don't know until it happens. and i think that it does beg for, and you're a political reporter. i think there's going to be all kinds of ideas in this coming political race on how we deal with this. the moral leadership come together as the rabbi said. and must come together.

and after pittsburgh, all of us stood together in new york and other places and when mosques were attacked. that is what we should do as ministers. but there must be some real debate on how we deal with this rather than just normalize it or just say everybody's armed up and we don't know who is armed, who are -- the rabbi said he was standing outside the banquet hall. if somebody was in front of the synagogue, that would not have dealt with that situation when he saw this young man with this rifle. >> absolutely i believe we are going to see a more robust conversation about gun control as we heads toward the 2020 election. the fact that this tragic situation happened the same weekend we saw our top elected officials speaking at the nra convention shows just how much of a hot-button issue both hate crimes and gun violence and how

the two intersect currently are and will continue to be. i think what is concerning many americans is they don't see any real solutions to this problem. i fear that things will get worse before they get better, if better at all. and many voters will be looking for a representative to provide some type of answer about how things can change. this is a new normal that many people aren't willing to accept nor want to accept. and it seems like there are quite a few people hoping to be in the oval office who have some ideas about how this cannot be the status quo anymore. it'll be really interesting to see what solutions and detail are presented that voters latch on to. >> i think that though we come from different places in the body politic, that all of us agree that this must be dealt with. we can debate about how to deal with it. but we all must do what is

necessary to stop this. i think the rabbi's appeal must be heard. those that are having memorials must be heard. those that are helping to rebuild those churches in louisiana must be heard. they are not politicians. they are not activists. they are people that wanted to pray and worship their god. and if any of us and all of us can't get past our differences to really deal with this moment, then i don't think we deserve the platforms that we have. and it starts with our own inspection and reflection on ourselves. as i said last night, i will never forget mrs. scott king, the widow of martin luther king, jr., and her son martin iii telling me refrverend you've go to watch what you say.

i've had to deal with that. all of us need to do that tonight when we look at what we do whether it is large or small, that we can make sure that we're part of the light rather than the darkness. thank you, danielle, shelby, and eugene. that does it for me. i'll see you back here next saturday at 5:00 p.m. eastern. up next, "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> this sunday, the president versus congress. president trump says he's done cooperating with russia investigations. >> i have been the most transparent president and administration in the history of our country by far. >> vowing to defy congressal democrats. >> we're fighting all the subpoenas. >> i wouldn't give him a dam thing. >> as democrats plan to use the mueller report as a road map on obstruction. >> congress has the responsibility and obligation to hold individuals in contem