>> "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. roosky business. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. what do we do when an american and a russian president agree to not only forgive russia's interventions in the election, but to forget it? that's what happened today when the two leaders chose to ignore

the mueller report's sweeping and systematic interference. >> did you address the issues that came up with the mueller report? >> we discussed it and he sort of smiled when he said something to the effect that it started off as a mountain and ended up being a mouse. he knew there was no collusion whatsoever. pretty much that's what it was. >> did you tell them not to meddle in the next election. >> excuse me, i'm talking. you are very rude. so we had a good conversation about many different things. >> did you ask him not to meddle? >> we didn't discuss it. >> trump's effort to end-all questions about russia has forced a constitutional crisis between trump and congress unlike anything we have seen before. >> is it done?

>> i would say it's done. we have been through this. nobody has ever done what i've done. total transparency. it never happened before like this. they shouldn't be looking anymore. this is all. it's done. >> it's done. the american system the governance the way we learned it in 6th grade is grounded in the idea that we have three separate, but coequal branches of government, each acting as a check and balance on the other ensuring none holds too much power. he obliterated the checks and balances. americans sent the president a warning by handing subpoena power to democrats after they won control of the house. a warning they chose to ignore by cirque um vending and under cutting congress. naps was wary of impeachment, however warned the president.

i think getting more information and you never know one thing can lead to another. impeachment is never off the table. >> starting to move towards impeachment. the house committee chair put william barr on notice to provide the un redacted mueller report or the committee will move to contempt proceedings and seek recourse. more from jackie spear, a democrat from california who is a member of the house intelligence and oversight committees. social justice at the new cool. presidential historian and peter baker, white house correspondence for the new york times and author of obama. i want to know what we are facing. this president is willing to push it all the way. ignore subpoenas and ignore threats of contempt of congress citations with the belief that the courts will not get in the

way and force him to behave any differently and nancy pelosi is not going to impeach him and he has nothing to lose. >> there is a risk for him obviously. one of the articles of impeachment in 1974 was defying congressional subpoenas. >> article three. >> exactly. the legitimate power of the legislative branch. this could provoke congress into something into doing something they would not do otherwise. her line wasit's not off the ta. she is sending a message. whether or not the president will listen or continue to fight the battle. >> you tweeted this image from 1974. 45 years ago. nixon rejects subpoenas and said he will get no more watergate data. just like today. he said enough. he declares we are not doing this anymore as if the president decides he can be his own judge.

>> almost taking it out of the nixon playbook. >> do you think it's anything like the nixon playbook? >> no, but he has people around him who were around nixon and know that history would be a dumb thing for him to do. to find the congressional subpoenas and oversight as peter is saying led to his impeachment a couple months later and he was defying the prosecutor who was saying you have to give up tapes and papers and nixon was saying no, they are shrouded with executive privilege. executive privilege does not apply if there are no military or diplomatic secrets and this may be concealing a crime. he went to the supreme court and this is another historical parallel. nixon may have said he would say them because he appointed four members of the court. you wonder whether trump thinks

because he appointed gorsuch and kavanaugh, he tipped the court in a direction that will save him as well. >> congresswoman spear, do you have teeth? in the end after all, the threats and you can't do this. we have the subpoena power. you ignore the subpoena power. we can cite you for contempt of congress. he is laughing at that. i think trump said you are a paper tiger, you democrats in the house. i think he is goating you. that's what he's doing. >> he's a foolish man if he pursues that. that's going to raise the ire of every house democrat and if he thumps his nose at the legal process, he will pay a price. no question. >> what's the price? >> the price, slowly but surely the screws will be tightened on

him. i think before long, you will see more and more people willing to be very aggressive. i think frankly our membership has been respectful and has tried to accommodate everyone in terms of having them come without subpoena. i think subpoenas are going to fly now and when they are not complied with, we have what's called inherent contempt proceedings. that means we send the sergeant of arms out to handcuff the individual who is declining to testify. >> who are you going to handcuff? >> i will start with mr. barr and bring him in. >> go through the guards at the door with sergeant at arms troops and take him up to the hill somewhere. you are serious? are you really serious about that threat? >> he won't get the last laugh. he has to comply with the

subpoena. so far he has been -- it has been negotiated, but once there are specific subpoenas and he does not comply with them, he can be brought before the house and tried. he can either be held there to testify or he can be punished. there is actually a jail in the capitol which has been used as recently as 1930. there was the brother of a former attorney general during tea pot dome that was actually brought in from ojhio with a deputy sergeant at arms to be required to testify. >> i know this this is in the rule book. i don't think the rule book works anymore. here's what the story is. that's all true. the congressman knows the rules. the rules say you can cite someone for contempt of congress if you can get the justice department to bring the case. this justice department, you are

lucky. if they bring the case and you win in court, six months to two years from now, you can win the case and you know what the penalty is? six months or something. if the president pardons that person -- >> a year. >> it's still a misdemeanor. not quite a year. it's a misdemeanor. does the congress in the end as long as speaker pelosi say i need republicans to begin impeachment and as long as that's her standard, is trump walking free? >> the issue, there are two issues that we should separate out. one is winning a conviction on impeachment. the other is getting witnesses before you so you can establish whether or not you are going to go and push an impeachment vote. what she has been focused on is the latter and not what the actual vote outcome would be. >> excuse me, the process is, we saw this with bill clinton. congress has to resolve in the full house and have to resolve

to begin impeachment and begin hearings and then they vote. do you think speaker pelosi is ready to begin impeachment proceedings? >> i don't think she is there either. what she is saying or at least the way i hear it, if you keep interfering with constitutional powers of our coequal branch of government, you will give us no choice but to go the nuclear option. i think part of that is at least in the initial phase, go to court, go to court and see if you can get the court to expedite the process for making a determination on the witness subpoenas. the issue of the mueller report un redacted is a longer fight. the witness issues are clearer because there is less of a defense. there is not really any grounds that i can find for witnesses not to appear. certainly william barr does not have reason if he said i just

don't want to be interviewed by the counsel staff. he doesn't have the power to say no because of that. the bigger question is getting mueller and mcgahn and mcgahn's chief of staff who was taking the notes about the meetings with trump. i think the issue here is getting the witnesses who can provide the american public a direct story that is embedded in the mueller report in 448 pages, but where william barr has been able to cast a misleading narrative about what that report says. >> let me go to peter. looking at it big picture stepping back from it, what is a constitutional fight. i think trump is going to play it all the way out. he said mcgahn will not testify. >> he might. he often talks the game and

accommodates. chief justice roberts sent julys in the last two months that he is an institutionalist. that may or may not play in his favor. that's not going to help donald trump right now. >> i will get to the congresswoman, but there is a lot of unwritten protocol. you don't just say i'm going to push. >> that's a tradition as old as any in history. richard mix on said i'm not going to let you testify. irvin said i will have them arrest and nixon folded. the other thing is the reason why nixon 45 years ago this month said to congress i'm defying your subpoenas is he knew if the subpoenas were met,

congress would find out he obstructed justice by asking the cia to tell the fbi not to investigate watergate. he knew he would be impeached and convicted which calls the question, why is donald trump so eager to cut off this investigation? is he afraid that one of the witnesses my un-earth facts that may be damaging to him in the future and if so, what is he afraid of? >> this is everything. it has espionage and the story. it's over. it's not your job. peter, there is a fresh one. i like to see that guy again. he was flabbergasted he was being repieced by a buffoonish showman whose calling cards had been -- this is president obama. after meeting, he complained

that trump peddles in bull. the rest of that word applies, too. it's rich. >> this is the president's point to be clear. he spent eight years in the oval office. he thought transforming the country and his very election seemed to suggest a different united states than the that he grown up in. he was replaced by someone who couldn't have been more opposite. it seemed like a rejection not just of hillary, but of him. he was frustrated. he came along 20 years too soon. he said maybe we pushed too hard and he was struggling through the phases of grief to try to explain what happened. >> clean as a whistle president. great husband and father. he was a little aloof. the guy did everything right by all christian judeo standards in his life. he was a perfect gentleman in the way he carried himself.

then we bring in this guy. i don't think we did it because of him. i don't know what we were thinking. apparently according to the new book, he couldn't believe what happened to him by history. >> it's less of a reflection on former president obama and more of a reflection unfortunately on our candidate, hillary clinton. i want to say, chris, that one of the things that happened today that we are not talking about is he talked with vladimir putin who just spent 2018 messing with our elections again and is intending to do it in 2020. i think what they were talking about is what is vladimir putin going to do for donald trump this time? >> unbelievable. by the way, you are sitting in front of the one case in american history, perhaps human history where mankind improved on the natural landscape, the

golden gate bridge. the most beautiful structure. every time i drive across that, i'm in heaven. i love that bridge. totally unrelated, but what a great country we live in. jackie spear from california. we have a lot of long headed thinking here tonight and it has been helpful. coming up, a new pole shows several candidates leading president trump head to head. you will be surprised how many are beating him. a separate poll shows a huge gender gap. most american men like trump. that will get us is all through the weekend. things look bad for the president, but could it be this easy to defeat trump? the vast wasteland of broken reputations. the price they pay for hitching their wagons to this guy. much more ahead. r wagons to thiy much more ahead. you're thinkin. you're thinkin. i don't want to hear about insurance. 'cause let's be honest...

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welcome back to "hardball." we are 18 months from the presidential election itself in november. an early snapshot of voter preference doesn't look good for president trump. if the election were held today and it won't be, beto o'rourke who hasn't had the best month is beating the president. biden is up by six and bernie up by six. kamala pretty darn strong. buttigeig up by three. elizabeth warren. they only threw six names out to the people. she lost by a point. it's an early snapshot with a small sample, but will it be this easy? president trump continues to spar with rivals and joe biden made it this week. here's what biden said followed

by trump's response. >> china is going to eat our lunch? come omn, man. they are not competition for us. >> everyone is competition. i view everybody as competition. >> is he being naive? >> she naive about china. everyone took advantage of our country during the obama years. very, very big competition, china. i stopped it and i am stopping it. for somebody to be so naive and say china is not a problem, if biden actually said that, that's a dumb statement. >> for more now, michael, i will start with you. i know biden. we all know biden. he talked about this with that suspected fellow. why are we so resilient?

as immigrants, these people come from the nobel prize and they come from people who came here. people like that. a lot of it is with people who enrich ourselves. that's a nice pro. right or wrong, the president jumps all over him. >> he's right on the economics and off on the politics. that's the way it is. >> who is off? >> biden was right on the economics, but the politics was a little bit off because of how it sounds to people. >> what are did he say? >> how does a union worker who hears that take it? how do they get an impression of what biden is saying in that piece? >> is this going to hurt because he supported nafta? >> not at all. this is one moment in a campaign that is just started. it's an early lesson for biden that you have to be precise. the politics is going to drive

the narrative. not the truth of the economics or the facts, but the politics. >> sound bytes can hurt you, too. >> i don't care what he says. he's afraid of biden. the very team in trump stole from the democrats. >> trump missed this. he's not exactly an intellectual person. he can go after the white working class voters that we lost in 2016 in the rust belt. he knows that joe biden can claim them back. he is scared of him. >> he's not an elitist. you can't hit him with that. he's not a pie in the sky super ivy league type that looks down on people. biden is one of them. he's from scranton. that's a big difference. >> he's the guy you see on the train going to work and the guy at the lunch counter in the local neighborhood. >> have you asked about him on

the train? >> oh, yeah. he's very popular on amtrak. the conductors and the porters. everybody. >> the hall is named after him in delaware. >> that blue collar spirit. >> a separate poll found the president facing a wide gender gap. this is a poll we always use. 62% of women disapprove. more than three out of five don't like this guy. among men, this is startling as well. most men including all kinds of guys. california guys, including he still beats. he's approved by men. men per se. that's scary to me. >> they are reflecting here and take back the democrats and take back the presidency in 2020 will be because of women.

>> you are the political expert. why do women detest this guy and men say i sort of like him? >> because he has been a misogynist and all of his policies have been anti-women from the embracing of the nra and we know the gun safety issue is a wedge issue that drove women in 2016 to support college educated women to support hillary clinton, especially republican college educated women. we will see that again this time. there is a whole array of wanes. >> why do men like him? >> he's the guy at the bar who talks trash. >> and all guys like that. >> put it this way, it's just a little bit more base than most. i appreciate that 62%. those numbers say a lot, but

when it comes to the vote, how will they vote? at the end of the day, you have to deal with looking at white educated women went for trump three years ago. >> and before the break, we said just because somebody disapproved of the president doesn't mean they are going to vote against them. >> that's right. that's his ace. >> i started looking at the pictures of the 21 candidates. two old guys are the front-runners. biden and bernie. all these bs drive me crazy. one young guy, buttigeig and two women doing well. certainly kamala and elizabeth warren. there is only one young guy running. interesting. >> it's early and i think a lot of this is focused on name id. cory booker is plotting a strong

campaign. >> i like him, but he's not running at the top of this poll. >> we have 39.5 weeks until the first caucus in iowa. we have time. a lot of this is focused on name id. >> kamala harris. >> 99% name id. she is doing well. >> she's the right age, early 50s which is perfect for president. a woman of color which in the democratic fight helps. people tell me african-american women will be dominant in picking the winner. she's a woman. >> she will do well in the early states. she will do well in iowa and certainly in south korea and california is now. >> what about the deep south? i think she will walk away with it. >> i think you are right about that. >> she was on this week. >> she had a good week, but this is a long stretch. we are 39 weeks out.

we have the first round of debates coming. who is on that stage will matter out of the gates. not everyone will be there. there is a lot of dynamics. >> 18 i believe made it. it's this skwlun is next month. thank you for coming. you are supporting everybody including cory booker. >> i am absolutely. i support cory booker. >> i want them all. >> real crazy. jamboree. up next, 550 days from the tum election and not the first. lawmakers across the country are wasting no time making it difficult for people to vote. you know who they are trying to stop. democrats. a round up of the boldest voter suppression happening right now. suppression happening right now. at panera, our salads are uniquely crafted.

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welcome back to "hardball." president trump is not alone when it comes to engaining in obstructionist behavior. they are following his lead in state legislature that they control. particularly when it comes to voting rights. in florida, voters overwhelmingly passed an nishl last year. they serve your time 20 years

later and once you are out, you can become a citizen again. the 15th amendment back. you can vote. republicans are making it more difficult for those people who served their time. the lawmakers passed legislation requiring the felons to pay court fees at the time they were arrested and tried and all restitutions if there is any involved before they can vote. according to the center for justice, there are 18 bills restricting voter rights and moving through nine states with republican control legislatures. i'm joined by jason johnson. some of this is partisan and predatory. the guys get out of prison and the hard time. the thing that might give them a sense of citizenship again. >> we are talking local city couple.

>> you want the guy who served for armed robbery. i am back here with my daughter and engaged in the community. 64% of the population wanted this bill. more people wanted felons to vote. republicans, white people, plaque people. republicans have the will of the people and taking away people's rights. it's anti-democratic and horrendous. >> it's not that many votes. do you think some of the gainsmanship is they are shrinking ethnically. the federalists controlled the courts in the beginning. maybe they can get another victory. >> the party has become not state by state, but a white people water. they lost latinos and african-americans and the asian population. >> i think they still have

advise nam ease and cubans. >> that's mostly state by state. nationally, they are having difficulty. that's why you see them ending voter rights. that's why you see things in tennessee. >> i'm not a big fan of george w because of the iraq war, but he said i'm going to make my case in texas. he got high 30s. >> 25% of the african-american vote. that's not the current republican party. this is the biggest sticking point. if you are saying yes, i'm donald trump. what have you got to lose with the black community and your party in georgia and florida said we don't want you to vote. that's what the party doesn't care about. >> another call for obstruction and gerrymandering. a three-judge panel ruled that

the map is unconstitutional. it needs to be redrawn ahead of the 2020 elections. the republicans consistently winning 12 congressional seats compared to the democrats with just four that's despite democrats getting half of the congressional vote. they are facing questions about partisan gerrymandering including the case in maryland where the democrats did the bad stuff. they are petty before the supreme court. most people hate gerrymandering. when you look at a map with a salamander and weird curly qs. with maryland, you have frederick surrounded with another district. >> it's cutting the slice of the pizza and nobody wants a district that looks like a slinky. this court is going to tomorrow

if partisan gerrymandering is okay. they said you can't racially gerrymander, but if partisan gerrymandering is a problem. it's anti-democratic. >> what did they do for years in california. to make all the incumbents safe. so a voter, man or woman couldn't go into the booth and make a change. the incumbents were unbetable. >> the voters in 2018 voted to have an independent commission draw the district. the legislature is fighting against the will of the people. the people want their districts cut fairly. they will vote for you if you are good. you don't need this party protection. it's the most dangerous thing we face in 2020. >> i think the problem is with gerrymandering like a lot of this stuff, it creates parties that are only hard left or hard right. the only thing you fear is a

primary. the only thing you fear is the primary, you edge further than you think you would be. thank you, jason. this is vigorous here. what is it about donald trump that makes so many people willing to sacrifice their personal and professional reputation. why do they get smeared by joining this guy? if you roll with dogs, you get fleas. that's what's going on here. stick with us. fleas. that's what's going on here. stick with us. pnc bank has technology to help make banking easier, like.. pnc easy lock, so you can easily lock your credit card when its maximum limit differs from its vertical limit. and clover flex, for when you need to take credit cards when no one carries cash. or requesting a call to help get a new credit card- that hasn't followed the family goldfish. pnc - make today the day.

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welcome back to "hardball." after attorney general bill barr had his defense of the president, many were asking what happened to that guy? susan glasser writes in the new yorker that the trump presidency has been a great wrecker of reputations. he managed to shred the careers and professional integrity and dignity of many who work for

him. let's watch. >> you can't subpoena a person because you are a member of congress. you can't ask for tax returns because you want them. you have to have a reason. >> any president who cheats our institutions shall be impeached. >> if it was based on false allegation, the president does not have to sit there constitutionally and allow it to run its course. >> so if the president orders the attorney general to halt a criminal investigation -- >> i think it would be a breech of the president's duties to faithfully execute the law. an abuse of power. >> from early in the administration, president trump has taken steps to ensure that the federal government will never ever penalize anyone for their religious beliefs ever again. >> donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shut down of muslims entering the united states. >> those are not even the most

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will never recover from. it takes character to avoid the damage because trump eats your soul in small bites. earlier this week, trump's 2020 campaign manager gave us the ultimate evidence of a sacrifice for trump, tweeting about his boss that only god could deliver such a savior to our nation. that's pius. joining us now is juanita tolliver. george, i have never seen -- what is it about people? the position, the prestige, the position of power? lindsey graham, a likeable fellow. why does he do this? >> these people didn't have situational ethics, they would have no ethics at all. there is the cult of the presidency itself. that's a title of a wonderful book at the kato institution. the grotesque inflation of the

institution in all its trappings while power wanes. you talk about the dictator trump, you can't get people on the federal reserve board. second, the cult of him, the republican party having thrown away almost all beliefs, small government and free trade, it's now a cult. and there is fear under this. these people are terrified of him. they remember senator flake and senator corker. all of them paid the price. >> two members of congress are gone because he decided they were not worthy. >> he made it clear if you cross me, there will be repercussions. >> if you are on his roster to be recruited, he starts lying about you and to you and creating this environment where if you have weak character, you have no way out and you feel trapped. the other side is working in that administration is a bit of a revolving door. cash in and cash out.

on to the board of the largest company running the largest facility for unaccompanied minors. there is benefits here. >> what struck me the way that lindsey graham, janet reno when she was attorney general for clinton, ever time he called her up, she said let me get my notebook. she was going to be an attorney general. >> did you read the novel from 1941, darkness of noon. it's about the soviet union and how people loyal to the party, the party was all things to them. they would twist themselves into intellectual pretzels to follow a party line. there was a character there who is the inquiz tor to the party and the party has a not large party. it's worse than fear. this is twisted conviction. >> and a piece for the new yorker, the spouse of peter baker also points out trump's

crude efforts to humiliate those who work for him. he dropped his federal reserve pick in a tweet. stephen moore said the nomination was full steam ahead. reince priebus found out he was fired via tweet and left alongside air force one as the motoricate sped back without him in it. former secretary of state was in the bathroom when he was told he was getting fired. the humiliation of people. i was watching a rally and he makes fun of sarah huckabee sanders and said you're fired as a joke. >> it's sport for him. this is a reality star who used to point to people and say you're fired. this is all fun and games for trump. >> do you think he's a sadist? >> i'm looking at people who join the administration knowing how he treats his staff and if

they make the decision to sign on, whatever negative comes from that is fully on their shoulders. >> when i first came to washington, i asked a friend of mine who got me in the door, i said do you have advice about life? you wonder what people are going to say. >> i'm waiting. >> he said it's who you associate with. >> you forgot about chris christie. he campaigns and he's a menace to the party and endorses him and flies with him down to texas and he turns to him and said get on the plane and go home. >> in and out. easy peasy. this is fun and games for trump. people who sign on know exactly what they are signing on for. you started with this what happened to barr? barr signed on knowing full well the treatment he would receive and he made a decision to play to the party of one this week in the hearings. he played well to trump.

>> i always get back to the man for all seasons and the people who went with king henry on the divorce and the marriage issue. those who didn't had their heads chopped off. those who didn't didn't look good in history. they didn't care about their souls. but for whales, one of the best line in the movie. you are giving your soul away. the duke of whales. >> if he has the whole world, you are doing it for whales. >> well said. >> we are getting biblical. my one question, was it like that working for other politicians? you worked for others. did they insist on slavery. >> you are talking to a woman of color here. >> some humiliate their people. >> still very short of slavery, but there have been bad bosses, but nothing to the degree of what we see in the trump

administration where he is actually creating this web where people get entrenched and can't find a way out. there is a reality that some people who are in his administration feel fine because they believe in what he's doing. >> lyndon johnson treated them like slaves. we didn't hear about it until later. >> that's true, but they stuck with him because they knew big things were happening and they were important. he also treated them well in the sense that he involved them in big events. >> remember how he treated mcnamara. he said i like to show i can make this guy cry. the secretary of defense. great to have both of you. on this freedom day, president trump makes clear his regard which is pretty low for a free press. you are watching "hardball." press. you are watching "hardball." oh! oh!

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>> today is world press freedom day. if you didn't have the person we have now in the oval office, this topic would have us

thinking about conditions overseas. the freedom of the press guaranteed to this country by our founders does not stand here today as an uncontested value. today we have a president who believes the free press is to be derided. not just on certain occasions, but relentlessly. a day doesn't begin until he launched his sunrise ceremony of assault on the leading newspapers and news networks. here he is making a certainly statement for world press freedom today. >> did you tell him not to meddle? >> excuse me. i'm talking. i'm answering this question. you are very rude. >> what you just heard was a white house correspondent, kristen welker asking following the reportfashion, if he told the president not to meddle in our next election. a reporter doing her job and a president smacking her with an insult.

no wonder why thomas jefferson, author of the founding document would say these memorable words. were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, i should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. fortunately, thanks to jeffer sop and the others, we don't have to choose. we need a president who helps the spirit of our constitution. journalists have died doing their job of trying to get the truth to us. "the washington post" highlights today in the new ad, all about that. let's watch. >> when we go off to war, when we exercise our rights, when we soar to our greatest heights, when we mourn and pray. when our neighbors are at risk, when our nation is threatened.

there is someone to gather the facts. to bring you the story. no matter the cost. >> that's "hardball" for now. all in with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight on all in -- >> did you tell him not to meddle in the next election? >> excuse me. i'm talking. i'm answering this question. you are very rude. >> a president who wouldn't talk to mueller talks to vladimir putin bp mueller. >> did you ask him not to meddle? >> we didn't discuss that. >> new evidence that the 2020 election could be a replay of 2016. >> that the way you handle