have to get beto in the race. there's something there. >> i agree. i hear you. my thanks to you all. that does it for us. thank you so much for watching. i'm nicolle wallace, see you back here monday at 4:00 p.m. the president is watching out for donald trump, not for the united states of america. the mueller report just over two weeks ago demonstrated complicitly that russia attacked our electoral system with the purpose of helping donald trump and he turns around two weeks later and says we are all good on this. we are not all good on it. we are at risk. we are at risk in 2020 and donald trump hits us squarely in trouble. >> good evening. welcome to the special live edition of a.m. joy or what we

call it, p.m. joy. senator elizabeth warren makes a point that about russia interfering with the 2016 election. the white house says the two spoke for an hour discussing several topics which included the mueller report. a normal president would have told putin to back off and stay out of next year's elections. donald trump is not a normal president. instead, he proved he is incapable of or unwilling to confront putin and stand-up for the u.s. electoral system. >> did you tell him not to meddle in the next election. >> excuse me, i'm talking. i'm answering this question. you are very rude. >> we had a good conversation about many things. >> did you tell him not the meddle in the next election? >> we didn't discuss it. >> joining me is malcolm.

former california senator, barbara boxer, a "washington post" columnist and co-author of "one nation after trump" and david corn for mother jones. in the open, we talked about a normal president and what they might have done. what might a president in a normal frame of mind and a normal sort of national security posture after what happened in 2016, what might they have said to putin on that call? >> they might have lived up to the o the oath of office, protecting and defending this nation as the first thought they have waking up in the morning, going to bed and when speaking to dictators who, you know, meddle in american fundamental politics, he should have said you will not meddle. you will not attack the united states again. you will stay out of this. this will be clean and fair.

but this is donald trump talking to vladimir putin. that's never going to happen. >> the question it begs, why wouldn't he say what you said before? it does lead one to suspect that either he still doesn't believe that russia attacked our election despite a 450 page report, books like yours, great reporting, there's lots and lots of reporting that should have told him, his own intelligence service told him it happened. either he doesn't believe it or he is open to it happening again. >> he doesn't believe it. he doesn't believe anything we are saying here. he views any questioning of whether the russians were involved or wikileaks or anyone else involved, questions the legitimacy of his presidency. it does. he had foreign assistance. we have heard his own lawyer come out and say it was okay for russia to meddle and that you could take information from a foreign power and, you know,

not, you know, not just the foreign power, foreign intelligence agency carrying out a cyber warfare attack on the united states. this man fundamentally does not believe in what america is about. he is wholly un-american. he wanted the seat and the power, protecting and defending the united states is the last thing on his mind. >> let me go to barbara boxer. you have served in the united states senate. there's a piece that talks about trump's surreal phone call with vladimir putin. a clip, trump is unwilling to hold russia into account for the brazen interference in the election. no one in government, other than trump, denies the russian attack. essentially, what they are saying is trump, i guess if he attempted to hold russia accountable for what it did in 2016, it would be a mission in

his own mind that his election was tainted. just the emotional or psychological can't go there. he's fixed it so his top officials can't talk to him about russia's attack on the elections. they can't bring it up. kristjen neilson in charge of security couldn't bring it up with him. do you think it's an emotional resistance or something more. >> you are a good psychiatrist. i think trump ought to send you 50 bucks for that analysis. i was in the house for a long time, now i'm a citizen. of this great country. i don't really care how trump feels about whether he is cautious about winning this election. he is concerned. we know that.

i don't care about his psycho analysis. what i care is he is kissing up in the worst possible way to an adversary for a country that manipulated our election and lord knows they are going to do it again. the whole intelligence, all the intelligence agencies have warned us. they have warned trump. so, what he is doing now is as bad as what he did when, i believe, he obstructed justice in the mueller report. this is a whole other avenue which is, in fact, sending a clear message and inviting putin to continue to do the same. it's extraordinary, it's dangerous. >> yeah, to that very point, e.j., this is -- let me play this, it's the ambassador to russia. he was on the 11th hour with brian williams and talked about this same phone call. let me let you listen to his

tape. >> it means that maybe there's a possibility to engage directly with president trump to achieve things they want to achieve and to create a gap between the president and his administration as you rightly pointed out, they are oftentimes not on the same page. here is an example. if you read their readout, number one initiative by us. it's a good question. what was the objective of the call. but, then when you read the russian side, they are putting down their markers about their policy. >> e.j., one of the things donald trump has seemed to do is he wants to say that he is not in the pocket of vladimir putin. he's not under the control or he's not being swayed by vladimir putin, but he rushes out, no sooner than the mueller report redacted version comes out and goes right to call him. he apparently initiated the call. he is seeking favor with putin. from the russian side,

ambassador put out, they don't give trump anything. they ask for things. they want what they want and put forth their policy ideas. for whatever reason, the american president adopts them. that doesn't give, at least this is in confidence that donald trump was -- i mean, the whole idea of collusion was not a provable crime but it's obvious donald trump really, really curries the favor of this country, i'll just say that. >> it's almost like he's saying, if you didn't think there's collusion, look at this. look at what i'm doing right now. i mean, there's something curiously helpful about this because a lot of people have been trying to say, well, well, maybe there was russian interference. look at the administrations policies. many of the administrations policies toward russia are tough. the fact is, there is such a clear split as michael mcfall said between parts of his government, our government, by the way, are saying and doing and what trump is saying.

the other message is that if they interfered the last time, i really like the way things turned out the last time. i'm sure not saying anything now, except you never say it that way because he doesn't want anyone to believe he was elected by russia. it sends so many terrible messages to russia, but ought to help the rest of us understand who he is. >> yeah. david, there's been a lot about the christopher steele memo. the fundamental point, i think, that was made in that memo, correct me if i'm wrong, russia has sought to infiltrate to get next to, to create swayover and influence over donald trump for a long time and used many avenues to do it. donald trump doesn't like the idea of the steele memo, but not

doing anything to disprove what's in it. >> a lot of allegations in the steele memo we have talked about that didn't pan out in the mueller report. i looked at it this afternoon, the first line in the first memo says that russia had a operation, a plan to try to cultivate trump for the previous five years. that goes back to the trump-miss universe contest in moscow and putin playing him during the election saying things that trump interpreted as putin saying i'm brilliant. now the phone call, yesterday, for all the reasons my fellow guests enumerated, outrageous, atrocious, so on. it's also nothing new. go back to the helsinki meeting with putin in 2018, last year. he came out and said putin says he didn't intervene, i kind of

believe him. >> not kind of, he believed him. >> he never acknowledged the attack happened for all the reasons we discussed, too. that's troubling because this past week, chris wray who works for donald trump said there was serious with the russians. anybody who worked in the federal government knows if the president isn't aboard a particular policy, priority, it doesn't happen as well. we have no one working hard to protect this country in this matter. >> let's play what vladimir putin said at that summit about what he wants out of the relationship with the u.s. >> president putin, did you want president trump to win the election and did you direct any of your officials to help him do that? >> translator: yes, i did. yes, i did. because he talked about bringing

the u.s.-russia relationship back to normal. >> he said yes i did. he didn't say which of the two questions he was answering. let's move to north korea. another thing that happened is donald trump's nobel prize winning effort to end the nuclear crisis on the korean peninsula went up with a rocket and yet another rocket fired by kim jong-un. he tweeted he supported the murderous dictator there. we know otto warmbiers mother said the whole thing is a charade that they are trying to negotiate is a charade. donald trump thinks this is a winning effort. >> i mean, this just, you know, brings out what we have already know. donald trump's love, admiration, a brutal murderous dictators has no boundaries whatsoever. everyone has been saying this from day one.

they have played us like a fiddle. or donald trump's version an accordion. he's easily squeezed and you can press any key and get noise out of it. north korea will get whatever they want if donald trump is president of the united states. we did promise to pay them $2 million for beating and torturing and then throwing on to an airplane an american citizen and donald trump thinks that's a victory and that this man, kim jong-un, the man that uses anti-aircraft guns to blow his family members to bits, nerve agents and spy operations to poison his half brother, donald trump thinks this is admirable and this is where we are going to have a serious problem because when north korea starts launching icbm's again, donald trump will cover for it. >> barbara boxer, what should the democrats in the house, you

served in the senate, but what can the democrats or the only ones who are willing to do anything about this, what can they do? >> if you are talking about russia, if you are talking about north korea -- >> or donald trump refusing to defend the united states. >> well, yes. what is a high crime? i mean, let me say this, i think nancy pelosi set the table well. i tell you what i think the biggest story is, the biggest story is the fact that we do not have republicans speaking out. it's awful. i want to tell you, you know i'm from california. when i started out in politics, we were a red state. then we became a pale red, then purple, then blue. we are bright blue. i was looking at the numbers today. do you know republican registration is down to number three in our great state? we have 44% democrats then we

have about 25% independents and under that come the republicans. they are going to go that way nationally if they don't understand that we have to defend our nation, our electoral system, our constitution, our separation of powers and it's not about the democrats. we will stand-up. we have to stand-up. i know nancy pelosi. she's going to take those bread crumbs and lay them out where they go, they go. what about my republican friends? where are they? how can they get up in the morning and look at themselves in the mirror when they see this president talking to putin. i would say to david, he is right. this is after the report. so, clearly stated what happened, how they interfered and there are russians in prison and the president says, oh, he said it started out as a mountain and became a mouse. that's when putin said. and i think trump said, i could

see the smile in his face. maybe they were facetiming, who knows what that relationship. you know? >> yeah. >> apparently he didn't tell the truth about that because apparently they weren't facetiming. >> you know, he felt the smile in his heart. >> he could sense it. they are so close. >> in his soul. barbara boxer, david, thank you so much. malcolm and e.j. will be back later on in the show. things are heating up for defiant william barr. that's next. r defiant william barr that's next. geico makes it easy to get help when you need it. with licensed agents available 24/7. it's not just easy. it's having-a-walrus-in-goal easy! roooaaaar! it's a walrus! ridiculous! yes! nice save, big guy! good job duncan! way to go! [chanting] it's not just easy. it's geico easy. oh, duncan. stay up. no sleepies.

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has the president or anyone at the white house asked or suggested you open an investigation of anyone? yes or no please, sir. >> um, the president or anybody else? >> seems you would remember something like that and be able to tell us. >> i'm trying to grapple with the word suggest. there have been discussions of matters out there that they have not asked me to open an investigation. >> perhaps they have suggested? >> i wouldn't say suggest. >> hinted? inferred? you don't know? >> during william barr's testimony, he struggled to say whether or not the white house explicitly asked or suggested he open investigations into trump's political rivals.

barr could not provide clarity on whether or not foreign entities should be prohibited in involvement in u.s. elections. >> some russian all guard says we may need you to lobby, is that allowed today? >> depends on the specific circumstances, the nature of the agreement, who the person is representing, the foreign government. >> malcolm is back with me and barbara mcquaid. go down the list where we ended. there's a story in the new york times, a day before the hearings, within a day of the hearings that rudy giuliani was soliciting information that he used to undermine the mueller report and damage joe biden. rudy giuliani briefs donald trump and they are suggesting the justice department should investigate. you already see donald trump's

team mining foreign sources to find dirt that they can take to william barr, probably presuming he will use it to harm the opponents. >> do you remember this thing called the steele dossier and the republicans were ap lep tick that it found its way into the justice department via the fbi and david coren and buzz feed. they are trying to engineer an investigation into all of donald trump's enemies that are related to the mueller report and sim t taniously try to use dirt. joe biden ought to come out, immediately and call out that this administration and his campaign are now under the control of foreign powers. if anything comes from the solicitor general of the ukraine or whoever it is that's out there, this is on par with their attack for hillary clinton.

it won't hurt him. giuliani thinks he's the master of the universe. >> le's talk about the other things that seem to be on the menu. i want to play william barr from the same not hearing talking about the criminal investigations he already has under way. >> what are you doing to investigate unauthorized media context by the department and fbi officials during the russian investigation? >> we have multiple criminal leak investigations under way. >> you know, people who are loyal to donald trump respond to everything he says and tweets by putting his tweets and statements into action. donald trump complained about leaks, he complained about the fbi. he's now got roy cohen to prosecute people for talking to the press. your thoughts? >> i worry president trump will feel empowered by the things he is hearing from william barr.

after water gate, we put a lot of rules in place to try to protect the american people from presidential overreach. to see william barr come to his defense, i worry president trump will do things like he said about changing the standard for liable and other things when they have a public figure. investigating leaks when it is someone who has security clearance and is bound to protect classified information and discloses that, that is a legitimate investigation. members of the news media might be investigated. the good news, i suppose is the fact that in the mueller investigation and as we have seen in the assange investigation, this department of justice is drawing a line between publishing material obtained illegally or stolen and those who actually steal it and focussing criminal charges to those who disclose it or steal it. >> i want to show a trump

campaign text that went out on thursday. time to investigate the investigators. stand with president trump and demand an investigation. add your name to a petition. this is just a campaign. donald trump is making it clear this is what he wants and republicans are echoing that fact. do you have confidence that the justice department, below william barr can with stand if it he says you are going to investigate members of the press. this is what you are going to do regardless of what they are doing with wikileaks? >> anytime someone in government has done misconduct, it should be investigated. what's motivating this crime for investigation isn't allegations of misconduct, but political partisan outcry and revenge. robert mueller's report says the investigation into president trump began when george papadopoulos bragged about having dirt on hillary clinton. god forbid we would not make an

investigation. based on that, it is predication, the idea you would investigate the investigators for that seems absurd and to do it solely because of political partisan people who are calling for it strikes me as highly inappropriate and worrisome for anybody who wants to be an investigator. >> it's a chilling effect on those who were going to investigate attacks on future election. the message has been sent if you attempt to investigate further contacts between foreign intelligence services and the campaign, you might end up prosecuted. the republicans have a cry, already, about the methods used to investigate the foreign interest in donald trump's campaign. there was an fbi investigator posing as an assistant to meet with george papadopoulos. this person was sent under cover. is there something unusual about doing that, if you believe the campaign is being contacted by a hostile foreign power?

>> no, there's nothing wrong with this. this is the fbi, the federal bureau of investigation. no one seemed to have a problem with them doing it against mob bosses for decades. this is how they get information. sometimes they get informants. sometimes they run their own agents. other times they use electronic surveillance. every one of these was court authorized. there is abc lutdly no problem with them going out and getting information the way they want. can i make a quick side on that previous subject? >> yes. >> investigate the investigators thing, i have seen this before. i worked my entire life around third world decembspits. putin did it, kim does it. he really thinks he is going to now turn the internal surveillance organization, the internal police organization of the united states and he is going to start pulling out his

enemies and start, you know, bringing them down and holding show trials. that tweet is an intelligence indicator. he fully intends to do this. can he do that, barbara? is that possible to do if he has a willing attorney general and he does have one that is open to it. republicans are threatening to go after the fbi. hillary clinton, reopen investigations on her. going after the obama administration. this is what they want to dochlt lindsay graham is going to call chief justice roberts to get the fisa court under control or else. this is what republicans are saying. if trump is willing to do it and has an attorney general willing to do it, what's to stop them? >> i agree with you, joy. it is a real concern. he has an inspector general to investigate fraud, waste and abuse. there already have an investigation going on into this investigation. it's been led, so far, by the u.s. attorney in utah named john

hu huber who is someone i know and credibility i respect. now that william barr is getting involved, it cease using words like spying. i don't have confidence in him that he is objective and independent and fair. i know this came up during the hearing where he said spine is a fine word and i use it all the time. no one in the department of justice talks in those terms. they talk court authorized surveillance. to use it is so loaded, he is siding with those who are politically motivated and undermines my confidence in his ability to be fair. >> it's used against foreign adversaries. the idea that is what was done because they were investigating foreign contacts with donald trump's campaign, which happened with the mueller report. it's stunning. thank you very much. coming up, my conversation with donny deutsche, the host of the new show airing tonight.

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we are mere minutes away from the premier of saturday night politics here on msnbc. earlier today, i had a chance to chat with the host, donny deutsche to discuss the 2020 race, the interview with mayor pete buttigieg and how they should respond to the report. let's talk about the democrats. we have talked about them a lot. you are a messaging guy. it's what your career is based on. they don't seem to know how to explain why what is in the mueller report is important and what to do about it. >> that is the challenge for next 20 months for the democrats. how do you walk and chew gum at the same time. here is how. like it or not, voters, i know we had an exciting or frightening week. voters are not going to vote based on obstruction. do you walk away from it? no. you turn it into an issue, there

are two sets of laws, the overriding message is, it's a rigged system. it's a rigged system for the wealthy. it's rigged for the wealthy and powerful. it's a rigged system when it comes to law. look at the president. look at his in-house counsel. they are not playing on the same laws. that resinates with voters. take it out for what it is and turn it into something that means something for me. >> you have known donald trump for a long time. >> unfortunately. >> what is it? is he trying to be an autocrat? that's what michael cohen says. he wants to be like vladimir putin. >> do we start using the "d" word, dictator? we nice and humbly say, he's got the thor thaitive ssh what is the word? >> athortarian. >> you become a student of

history, it's a dictator book. what keeps us from being a free world? free society? free press. he is trying to take them down. i believe, and this frightens me that study history and i believe the worst things that happen in history are capable. what they do is show their hands. >> right. >> i think, basically, what happened this week with barr since citizens united most scary thing toward democracy is powerful. people should be frightened. >> if he loses, will he accept the results of the election? >> no. they telegraph. he did it last election. he was teeing it up. michael cohen said this, if he loses, he is going to get out of office, but will not be a graceful, peaceful transition. he will say it's rigged. he's not beyond telling his people to take to the streets. this is how dangerous this man

is. >> you have a show coming up. i am your lead-in. >> don't screw it up. don't screw it up. guys can she handle it? is she up for it? do i need reruns of "full house,". >> you could do that. you interviews pete buttigieg, who is the it guy right now. let's play a clip. >> 80% of the views of the various candidates on the democratic party are pretty well aligned. you are going to see differences from the left most and center most candidates. you are going to see differences on what we choose to emphasize. at the end of the day, while there will be some disagreements over substance, the alignment is strong. what's really going to matter is what kind of message do we put forward. >> they are doing a risk assessment. we put a split screen up of you and that young man. a young guy like that -- >> are you calling me old? >> no. >> all right. >> the split screen of trump and

him. will the american people will risk verse enough even though donald trump is not qualified, he is there already. >> comes down to what happened on camera. the three best anti-trumps are pete, biden and harris because of that. what you get with pete is everything that every democratic winning candidate, going back to roosevelt had, the fresh, new face. the challenge is, does he have the strength? trump has that. the thing you have with biden that traditionally would work against him, he's been there and done that? is america ready for comfort food. harris, that way she handles herself. they are great anti-trumps for me. >> good advice from donney deutsche. you can see more when saturday night politics premiers after this very show tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. coming up, more on the very,

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beast by seeing who is going to land the biggest punch, the best zinger. the reality is, that's an environment, the mentality that represents. it's almost as if he is the one we are trying to impress. i want to move on to a world that recognizes this presidency and this president will come and go. >> pete buttigieg and the other 2020 democratic contenders will have to come to terms with another political reality, who is best suited to beat an incumbent president not willing to play by the rules. back with me, e.j. dionne. let's talk about it. there is this thing that is happening, buttigieg is going up in the polls. he's had a lot of attention. his team has done a good job of lots and lots of media attention. let's look at the polls from march 21 and april 26.

if you look, biden pops up from 29 to 38. elizabeth warren got a boost. she did a lot of good the last two weeks. sanders is receding a bit. you have o'rourke receding more than a bit. you have harris remaining steady. she's been a steady performer. buttigieg popping up considerably. is this about the attention that he's getting or something else? >> i think it's more than the attention he is getting. when everyone was raving about beto o'rourke, i kept thinking why all this raving about beto o'rourke when you have pete buttigieg out there who is saying things and has a message and now we are seeing people are, you know, they have done a great job of putting him out there. media attention carries you so far. he's getting media attention because there's a there there.

when i interviewed him, people asked me who do you think, who do you think? i said keep your eye on mayor pete. he was at 1%. now, look where he is because there's a there there. he has a message. >> you were one of the early people who told me about him as well. there's two things happening. there's another poll that showed the electability factor who everybody cares about. beto o'rourke does the best, actually, if you put him there. biden does the second best, then sanders on down. the only person in that poll who is not ahead of trump is warren. we know the branding is that warren is, for whatever reason, people worry she can't beat trump. in the last two weeks, buttigieg has had a consistently good media cycle. the two people with the single best weeks of the cycle were elizabeth warren and kamala harris. they have had really, really strong weeks. >> rikt. >> why do you suppose these two

women who with doing well aren't popping in the same way some of the white guys are? >> right. when you say media attention only takes you so far, tell that to donald trump. far. i think when you see a candidate like buttigieg climb in the polls it shows people are voting on personality than policy. and i think a lot of the decision makers in terms of executive producers they look like pete buttigieg. it's like oh, yay, the new shiny object, let's talk about himmism it is a shade to the responsibility those of us in the media carry. i know how he feels about policy that other people have put out. i'm curious what policy he himself is going to rollout, and we haven't seen that yet. it does baffle me when you have these superstar women who are rolling out policies, who have a

legislative record who are doing things that don't get as much attention. and i think there's a danger putting so much attention on a candidate. look, we don't know what's going to come up next but i would just say there's a bit of a danger to celebrate, you know, the second coming of a candidate and not look like their actual substance. >> you know what i did just for fun, i sent out a tweet saying you've got three votes. who would you give them to, and i just did it just to engage with my twitter following. what happened was something i did not anticipate. people took my seriously. and when i saw that the number of comments eclipsed over 1,000 comments and now it's over 5,000 now i think, i started clicking through and trying to tabulate, and what was interesting and, you know, a twitter poll is wildly unscientific and i put all that out there, but what was

interesting is it was either harris-warren or warren-harris with biden, castro to be be nounced. elizabeth warren as you said has got all these policies out there. >> she's getting a lot of attention. >> folks are getting engaged. >> one of the things that has been frustrating to i think a lot of women watching this happening is if you stack all the candidates up and put them in order all the guys are at the top, and mainly white guys at the top and the women are at the bottom particularly when you talk about the working class voter. are we underselling the viability of a woman candidate? >> two things. one is the guy side is sort of -- is bigger because the two

front runners within the established base, joe biden and bernie sanders, are at the top of the pack. and so until somebody dislodges one or both of them, they're going to ride up the top. so then the question is who else is there, and i think some of this has been cyclical. we've forgotten what a great start kamala harris had. she really went up from very little to doing quite well in the polls right around the time 06 her announcement. i think buttigieg is a phenomenon. he gives very good answers. i like to think he gives very politically shrewd answers that never sound political. he's built a very particular base. his base is a very well-educated piece of the democratic party he hasn't extended elsewhere. and for those who say policy

doesn't matter or it's gone out of style, warren has had something of a surge in the last couple of weeks built almost entirely on policy. so i think -- and then now after the barr hearings i think that kamala harris is going to have another surge because of how of focus she was on barr, how careful her questioning was. she didn't give senatorial speeches. she sounded like the prosecutor she was. so i don't think this is a permanent deal, but i do think bernie and joe biden are going to hang there until somebody gets them out. >> it's interesting you mention that because the prosecutor part of kamala harris' past has been a double-edged sword for her, but in this case it was real helpful because people got to see a split screen of what it might be to prosecute donald trump in a debate. >> people are inching to see her

on a debate stage with donald trump. and wheshe asked the attorney general of the united states a very simple question and his response was umm -- i really do think it'll crib to those who maybe have some challenges with her prosecutorial record or the ridiculous question, can a woman be tough enough to stand on the stage with donald trump, and i think she's a part of a constituency group he does not mess with. there's a reason that man has never said anything about michelle obama. >> quick lightening round. who do you think has had the best political week in the last week? one person. >> harris. >> it has to be a candidate? >> yeah, one of the candidates. >> i would say harris. >> i'd hate to go with the consensus, but i do. >> she had a really good week. and so next week i guess in the polls and let's talk very quickly. we don't have a ton of time? we don't have anymore time, all

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good evening. i'm donny deutsch, and i'm thrilled to be here. there are 548 days until the 2020 presidential election. tonight the big stories of this week and next. did the embattled attorney general give the democrats a play book for defeating trump? pete buttigieg is going to join us. lots to cover. this is "saturday night politics." welcome. first a little bit about me. consulted to presidential campaigns and a former business associate in front of potus for 20 years i'm here to shed some strategic light. i'm going to bring in some thought, leaders and influences outside of politics in addition to some of your