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given my experience working for mr. trump i fear that if he loses the election in 2020 that there will never be a peaceful transition of power. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." when trump's former lawyer and fixer gave dramatic day-long testimony before congress in february that's just one of the alarming lines that stood out. cohen who heads to prison tomorrow also said that trump whom he served loyally for ten years was becoming an auto democra autocrat. now the speaker of house has announced the same concern. speaker nancy pelosi gave an interview to the "new york times" saying she doesn't trust the president of the united states to step down if he loses reelection next year. facing immense pressure to begin impeachment proceedings speaker pelosi told the "new york times" that she does not believe the president can be removed through impeachment. the only way to do it, she said, is to defeat him in 2020 by a

margin so big he cannot challenge the legitimacy of a democratic victory. she discussed her concern that trump would not give up power voluntarily if he lost reelection by a slim margin next year. if that seems hyperbolic consider what another politician said about what the results of the 2016 election would be accepted by both candidates. >> do you make the same commitment that you will absolutely -- sir -- that you will absolutely accept the result of this election? >> i will look at it at the time. i'm not looking at anything now. i will look at it at the time. >> are you saying you're not prepared now to -- >> what i'm saying is i will tell you at the time. i will keep you in suspense. >> that was what trump said during the final presidential debate of 2016. meanwhile, the new nbc "wall street journal" poll out today shows that while only 37% of americans believe trump has been honest and truthful about the mueller investigation, americans

are split on impeaching him. nearly half don't want congress to begin the process, 32% want lawmakers to continue investigating to see if there's enough evidence to hold impeachment hearings in the future and 17% say there's enough evidence to begin impeachment hearings now. joining me now med win charles, ej dion columnist for the "washington post," elizabeth holzman former congresswoman and author of the case for impeaching trump and cynthia altsny. i will start with the table with you, midwin. there is a disconnect in my mind. see if you can help me make this work. nancy pelosi agreeing with what michael cohen said, that donald trump may not leave office if he loses reelection, that he may refuse to leave the presidency, and at the same time saying, well, we can't impeach him, we just have to beat him in the

next election and we have to do infrastructure deals with him and we have to pass bills. these two things seem completely disconnected in my mind, can you explain it. >> it's a conundrum. it's astonishing that the speaker of the house would say that about the president of the united states. we need to step back and also recognize that you played that clip during the debates, in other words, trump has shown us all along who he was during the campaign. >> yeah. >> and when people show you who they are, you ought to believe them the first time. >> yes. >> he made it very clear that he had these sort of autocratic tendencies from day one. people now want to sort of act as though they are in shock. >> yes. >> and in awe. in a democracy one of the sort of telltale signs of a democracy is the peaceful transition of power. you saw barack obama and michelle obama during the inauguration sit there right next to the same person who sort of disrespected them for years by questioning the place of birth, but they did that because they recognized that we live in a democracy. so the transition of power is

incredibly important. so for nancy pelosi to recognize and identify that in this president he has these autocratic tendencies, but then on the other side to say that impeachment isn't proper is just mind blowing. it doesn't make any sense. >> yeah. >> and i think what she is doing is sort of chipping away at what can happen between now and 2020. the way we are going with the constant disrespect of the constitution, we saw the flagrant disregard from william barr when he was questioned. the way we are going, who knows what kind of democracy will be by november 2020. that's the concern. she seems to be missing that. >> and elizabeth, i want to go to you on that. let me play you what donald trump said. he's consistent. there's one thing about him, he's consistent. here is what he said in march of 2018 praising another autocrat. take a listen. >> he is great.

he is a great gentlemen. he is now president elefor life. look, he was able to do that. i think it's great. maybe we will have to give that a shot some day. >> and elizabeth, it was funny when bill maher said two years ago president trump is never going to leave office once he gets in, people laughed it off, then donald trump said he may not respect the results of the 2016 election, people kind of laughed it off. now the speaker of the house of representatives is saying she is not sure that he will leave office even if he loses and that unless it's a huge margin and, by the way, he lost by a huge margin last night, all right, so i'm not sure what she means by that, he lost by over 3 million votes, he may not leave office. add to that that experts like walter dell linger who is a former deputy attorney general has said he may need to stay in office to avoid being indicted. the only way he can avoid indictment is to remain

president so that that directive at the doj remains applicable to him. we are in a constitutional crisis. can you explain this conundrum of the speaker of the house saying that and then saying, but, you know, we will just have a normal election and thinking it's going to be a normal election. >> well, nothing about donald trump is normal. he's the most abnormal and the most dangerous thing that's ever happened to this country because you see the shades of fascism, you see the disrespect for norms, for constitutional systems, for our system, for the vote. i mean, remember, when he took office he was blaming barack obama for illegally wiretapping him. so he is capable of saying anything, making up total untruths, poisoning people's minds about our democratic system. i mean, imagine for him to denigrate it, to me it's a violation of his oath to take

care that the laws are faithfully executed, to denigrate the russian interference with our election. listen, the only thing that differentiates us from most of the countries in the world is that we have free elections. how can we tolerate having a foreign government affect our elections? i mean, now more information is coming out that apparently it leads one county in florida the machines themselves something may have happened to the machines, they may have been hacked. we don't know everything that the russians did. we know they interfered. the president hasn't lifted a finger to do something about it or criticize it. but i was laughing because what walter dellinger said is absolutely true. the president has several incentives to stay in office, not only that he loves the power and the parades and loves all of the trappings of it, but he can face indictment, prosecution, maybe even jail once he leaves office for various activities that he's under investigation

for right now, for example, in new york state and elsewhere. the real danger and i don't think we can put it aside, we do have a danger because of his disrespect. i go back to watergate. while the saturday night massacre was going on, i still remember that nixon called for a national emergency and the troops were put into readiness state and people got really nervous. >> yeah. >> and we also know that the -- that the defense secretary, schlesinger, gave out an order to the military not to obey a command from the president of the united states unless he approved it first. that could happen again, the problem is we have an acting, right now, in the pentagon, do we have people who are prepared to stand up for our democracy and this government. and that i don't know the answer to. >> well, how can one know the answer to it, cynthia? you also have an attorney

general currently who was essentially said that his -- well, he has essentially indicated that his only job is to protect the president at all costs, he has essentially said that he can't say whether if foreign governments decided to interfere in the 2020 election whether there would be anything wrong with that. we face the scenario where there is a real possibility that the president of the united states wants to have foreign interference again so he can stay office, so that he will not be indicted. that he doesn't have any intention of committing to a peaceful transition of power and he's got monarchists in his power who will willing to give up their own authority as congress, they are willing to give up all their authority in order to be obedient to him. the justice department obedient to him. he's stacking the courts with people who we don't know how obedient they are going to be. how can we have any confidence that just an election is going to cure these constitutional -- or that the election will even be fair, by the way? >> we obviously have a major concern because the phillip mena makes clear that the russians

interfer interfered, the president knew about t welcomed it, lied about it and tried to cover it up. we also know the answer to why nancy pelosi has this opinion about impeachment and that is because she knows it will not happen in the senate. so she has to make a political calculation knowing it will fail in the senate. i mean, you have to give her that. she's making a political calculation. >> didn't the republicans know that about bill clinton? no impeachment has ever worked. >> no, they didn't know that. >> only with nixon he resigned because he had some modicum of sense of decency or respect for the institution or self respect that he resigned. the idea it won't succeed, it is the biggest sanction that you can confer on a president full stop. there's nothing more that they can do. >> i know that, but we do have to win the election. nancy pelosi has to make the political calculation and i'm old enough to remember the clinton impeachment, i went through it, and it was up in the

air. it was up in the air. it is not up in the air today. that is a political reality and nancy pelosi has to deal with politics. i mean, i can tell you legally i can analyze for you legally what has happened. she has to make a political calculation and to be fair she's making a rational one. >> let me get e.j.'s perspective on that. of course, nancy pelosi as the leader of her party has to hold the house, god forbid democrats lose the house and give it back to republicans. we won't have a congress, they're just going to complete be obedient. she needs to win elections, but is she making a rational decision if she says he's so dangerous that he may not leave office? >> i think that line is the line of the day. look, i think we should go back and look at when elizabeth holtzman did all that good work on the judiciary committee where

nixon was impeached. here is the difference, you had a democratic congress right out of the box in 1972, they began investigations right away. the republicans have put the country in a box because for the first two years of the trump presidency there were no real investigations, they blocked real investigations, except for mueller who was on his own. now congress has to start everything and the election is upon us. so the calculation on impeachment is far more complicated now than it was for richard nixon. secondly, i think pelosi is right on a couple of counts. one, you cannot have a close election the next time. trump lost some popular vote by 2.9 million and he still won the electoral college. i agree with her that he will try to play games if the election is close. third, she does have to keep her house a majority. when you have polls showing that

basically 60% of americans think trump did something wrong or think he lies, but only 17% are for impeachment now, if i remember those numbers right, then you've got a real selling job to do before you move to impeachment. so i think what pelosi has been saying is, look, we are going to keep pressing, we're going to keep trying to hold him accountable, we're going to try to reveal as much as we can about what trump did to try to move that 17% number up to try to move the number up that says, my god, trump really is lying here. >> yeah. >> and then we will have a different kind of politics both on the election and on impeachment. >> can everybody stay? can you guys just hang on for a little bit, i want to hold you guys over the break if i could. on the other side of the break i want to continue this conversation, we will bring in jill wine-banks and just keep this going so stay with us. d ju this going so stay with us when i book at hilton.com i get to select my room from the floor plan...

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my panel is back with me and joining the conversation is jill wine-banks, a former assistant watergate suppression prosecutor. jill, earlier elizabeth was talking about nixon and the fears that he would not leave office under the pressure of watergate. let me read from a political magazine article, this is from september of 2018 and they're talking about trump's final day and whether or not he would actually leave his office. this says according to reporters nixon intimates began to believe

he was count plating a coup d'etat to maintain power. an unnamed member of the joint chiefs of staff told her i wish in one meeting nixon called himself the last hope and claimed that the eastern elite was out to get him. said the officer his words brought me straight up from my chair. i thought the president was trying to sound us out to see if we would support him in some extra constitutional action. he was trying to find out whether in a crunch there was support to keep him in power. it's not completely unprecedented that the president contemplate the idea of staying in office unconstitutionally. how much of a threat do you think there is of that now with this president? >> i think it's a much bigger threat now for several reasons. one is the media has multiplied in a way that didn't exist during watergate and watergate we had basically three networks and they all had the same facts. now you have this awful thing where we have a bubble of people who believe facts that are

totally made up and then you have people who actually are paying attention to reading documents and paying attention to what is actually true. so that's one big difference. i think the other big difference is that ultimately richard nixon did believe in the rule of law and when the supreme court ruled unanimously that he did not have executive privilege and that he had to turn over the tapes, he did so. in this administration where we're worried about an attorney general who is enabling him and saying, well, if he thinks he's innocent, then he can't be investigated. that is a danger to democracy and, you know, it's one of those things where we could say it can't happen here. i think a lot of people in past history have said the same thing and it did happen. we have to be vigilant now and we have to really get out the vote to make sure that we change administrations so that the rule of law returns because i do think this is a significant threat and that the stonewalling

that is being threatened is really the end of the power of congress to have any say and any oversight of the executive branch. they are being eviscerated and they need to do something to show that they are a co-equal branch of government. >> on that note, you have -- let's go back to elizabeth for just one second. you have all these deadlines that are coming up tomorrow. you have bill barr supposedly william barr to comply with a lawful subpoena to turn over the full phillip mena. that sure sounds like nixon -- return of the nixon era. steve mnuchin his deadline whether to release donald trump's tax returns which has been legally requested and michael cohen of course reporting to prison. elizabeth, it looks like only one of those three things are going to happen, michael cohen is about going to report to prison. what can congress do? at this point i just mean the house because the senate is not going to do anything. what can the house do to enforce its subpoenas and make this

administration comply with the law? >> well, you know, in the end i guess there are a very limited number of things that congress can do. it can go through the court system, issue subpoenas as it has, and if the subpoenas are disobeyed they can go to court, take -- you know, it could take years before the courts finally rule on them. by that time the election will take place. congress also has the power and hearing power to jail people on its own, it's got a little jail in the capital, i don't think it's been used in 100 years, i guess they can get new sheets, as i've recommended, and clean out the rats and get it ready, but in the end we've got to have people on the -- in the executive branch who understand the rule of law and i'm not sure that's going to happen. but that doesn't mean congress has to give up. congress can't give up because congress has to explain it can't

just issue a subpoena and expect popular support here. if the administration refuses, if trump says, as he said, i mean, he actually said we are not going to obey any subpoena, we are going to fight every one of them, well, you have to begin to explain to the american people why this is such a threat because everything that donald trump does threatens our democratic system. we can't have congress investigate, understand what's happening in the executive branch, then we just have monarchy and that is not what the framers set up. we cannot have a king, we cannot have a one -- a power located only in the president. so i think that's incumbent on congress, but i just want to say one other thing about impeachment. impeachment didn't fail with regard to richard nixon, he never would have left office if we hadn't conducted our impeachment hearings. that doesn't mean that -- i can understand why the american people aren't in favor of impeachment now because they've seen the clinton impeachment, it was partisan, it was abuse of

power, they don't remember the nixon impeachment, which persuaded the country that impeachment was right. i think congress really has the story telling function now. what did trump do that was bad? >> right. >> how do we explain that to the american people on television, which is what happened during watergate. television was a powerful tool. >> right. >> that story has been covered up by the senate. >> yeah. >> why these subpoenas need to be enforced, what the importance of this information. if congress doesn't tell the story, then we are lost. the house of representatives has to give that narrative, has to make it powerful and simple and make the american people understand what's at risk, which is our very democratic system. >> absolutely. >> could i say something on that, joy. >> sure. >> i totally agree with congressman holtzman that congress has to tell the story and when she did the impeachment, was part of it in 19 1974, the whole year before, the summer of 1973 with the urban

hearings really began to tell that story to the american people. >> correct. >> and now it is compressed in a way that it makes it difficult. trump's stonewalling may force the house into impeachment simply to force trump to obey the law and turn over documents and let people testify. >> yeah, indeed. jill, really quickly. attorney general john mitchell during the nixon era went to prison. can you just walk us through how it can be that the attorney general can be jailed if he is the attorney general, because a lot of people are thinking that this attorney general committed -- perjured himself and if he did who would prosecute him? >> well, in our case, of course, we had independents that the current special prosecutor i think did not have and he was indicted for perjury and participation in the cover up. he actually was also part of planning the break in. he is the one who approved in his office as attorney general he sat in that office, the highest law enforcement officer in our country, and he said, oh,

that costs too much money, a million dollars is too much to spend. cut the budget and i will approve t that's exactly what happened and that's what led to the break in which led to the coverup which led to ultimately the resignation of richard nixon. there is a difference now which is that the special prosecutor is done, according to the rules. >> yeah. >> and the attorney general is the only one who can make this decision and he is standing in the way of justice in a way that could not have ever been foreseen and something needs to be done. so it may need to be that he gets impeached. even if it doesn't get convicted in the senate, which has stonewalled beyond anything we could have ever imagined, there would be a reason for doing it. part of it is what representative holtzman was saying, which is that we need to get the facts out to the public. educating the public is a key thing. we had public support for what we did because of the irvin

hearings and because the arguments about the tapes became so public. >> right. >> and richard nixon knew the power of tv in a way possibly less than donald trump does and that's why he's saying we can't have mcgahn, we can't have any witnesses because he knows that if people hear them, they will get the truth and they will turn on him. >> yeah. >> and that's an important fact. >> and we have potentially, midwin, robert mueller, now there is a tentative date of may 15th. that would be a powerful witness to have him actually come forward if he's willing to say what william barr did. >> and frankly they should have started with mueller. i don't even know why they bothered bringing in bill barr when we already knew what his position was going to be. >> fair. >> but i do want to reiterate a point that jill made at the very start of her presentation which is we are now living in a time where the media is entirely different than what it was in the '70s. the problem that congress is facing right now or hasn't done is they don't have this sort of

24-hour information being pitched out and pushed to the public whereas you see that happening with trump and fox news and conservative pundits. they are spinning a story every single day 24 hours a day and you don't see congress doing a counter to that. they ought to be selling. what is impeachment? do you just push a bell and, boom, he is impeached? no. it is a process. what does the process involve? that's what's missing here. you do not see congress taking the offense to let the american people know how dangerous the road that we are on is and that's what's missing here. >> let me go to my "washington post" columnist. i want to go to e.j. on this. the other thing that's happening is while the media is saying -- running these blockbuster headlines that the speaker of the house isn't sure the president will leave office if he loses election which would normally shut down every other story, then they pivot to, by the way, if donald trump starts speaking about the economy, maybe he can rise in the polls, let's see how he's doing in

terms of in the voters in the midwest. if he just pivoted this way -- they still treat him as if he's some kiwanis club republican. the media is acting like this is jeb bush and not donald trump. >> no, and i think you saw that a lot in 2016 where there were very awful stories about trump and then there would be a pivot back, but there's the server for hillary clinton and those speeches and it created a false equivalence. donald trump for both parties is an outlier, is lawless in a way that no republican has been and no democrat has been. so that is a problem. but i think there's another way to look at the economy story which is this is an unbelievably strong economy in the recovery we like to point out that began under barack obama and donald trump is still under water in his approval ratings. if he can't get to over 50% when unemployment is 3.6%, he's not

in a great position, he's in a terrible position. he should be much higher right now given what the economic numbers are. >> yeah. and, cynthia, just to button up where we started this conversation, from a legal standpoint i will have you and midwin answer this question, how would you get a president to leave if he just says i ain't leaving? >> well, i think what we have to do is win the battle of ideas in the house. the house is all we have. so we need to start focusing instead of fighting about barr and what barr said, we need to continue to focus the country's energy on exactly -- and attention on exactly what happened and that means getting bob mueller in, that means i hope getting mcgahn in, although not to be the bearer of the bad news, but i'm afraid mcgahn doesn't want to testify and he will just say -- he will use the president's executive privilege argument as an excuse and will have to go through the courts on that, too. i do think the house needs to focus on telling this story and

you can't tell the story by constantly fighting with barr over little details. i mean, that's telling their story. the story about what happened with russia, interfering, the president welcoming it, the president lying about it and the president obstructing the investigation begins with mueller and the live witnesses about exactly what happened. that's what the house needs to do. if they do that effectively we will do well in the election and then the president pelosi will be right and we will win. >> we will see if he will actually leave. that's the question. e.j. will be back later in the show, med win, elizabeth, thaw ul very much. win, elizabeth, thw ul very much shaving has been difficult for me. i have very sensitive skin, and i get ingrowing hairs. oh i love it. it's a great razor. it has that 'fence' in the middle. it gives a nice smooth shave.

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has the president or anyone at the white house ever asked or suggested that you open an investigation of anyone, yes or no, please, sir? >> um, the president or anybody else. >> seems you would remember something like that. >> black and white home ownership rates are larger than they were back when housing discrimination was legal. so i've got -- i've got a plan. i do. >> you've got a plan. for the last two weeks the 2020 democratic contenders who have had some of the best political moments when they stood out the

most from the now 22-person pack were elizabeth warren last week and kamala harris this week. warren received the most enthusiastic response at the she the people presidential forum in houston and saw an uptick in her poll numbers afterwards. kamala harris' grilling of william barr allowed the country to imagine a harris/trump debate and made it clear how thoroughly she could dismantle the real trump having dispatched his attorney general mini me. so why is it that after all these major successes and all of this really good press it's still joe biden who is surging the in the polls? joining knee jonathan kate, tiffany cross of the beat d.c. and giassi ross. giassi you are at a disadvantage because you are not hanging out with us at the desk. it's fair to say that bar none the two people who have had the best two political weeks in the last two weeks are the two women, two of the four women that are running, elizabeth warren and kamala harris. are you surprised that that has

not resulted in them leaping to the front of the back and joe biden just remaining there on top? >> no, i don't think we can be surprised at all. anytime people of particular marginalized groups are left out of the conversation despite their merit, that's kind of par for the course in the united states and especially in political discourse. certainly we have a certain amount of garden variety sexism and misogyny that comes into play, but i think that we also have and i think going forth in the 2020 election cycle a certain amount of inclusion exhaustion where people say, well, we tried that woman thing in 2016 and we see that -- where it got us. that comes from usually pretty liberal woke progressive people, where they -- well, you know, we tried this and now we have donald trump and women are to

blame for donald trump because hillary clinton wasn't able to come through with the victory. or alternatively even you can, you know, put the lens on african-americans, on black folks, with cory booker, where, you know, well, we tried the black thing in 2008 and that backlash gave us donald trump. you see this exhaustion where white progressives oftentimes will find any excuse to dismiss those people of those particular marginalized groups. >> gyasi, i wrote this down, that was so thorough, inclusion exhaustion. that explains so much that i think it makes sense. to the point where just to back up what gyasi just said, you look at the democratic primary poll, bide be is at 38, way out in front, warren has popped up, still at 12, sanders is at 11, you go down from there, harris is at 8, she has been riding at 8%. then you go inside the morning consult poll and you know who is

the front runner among black women? joe biden. and not by a little bit. 47% joe biden, kamala harris 9%, elizabeth warren 7%. even when you ask black women, that is not inclusion exhaustion, that's not the white woke world saying let's go back to a white guy, these are black people saying it, too. >> look, my former boss cornell belcher will kill me, but i don't always trust polls. when you look at some of these polls and dis aggregate the data, i mean, think about the wave of new voters in 2018 who don't have landlines who are not included in these polls. i'd also say, look, i think senator kamala harris is a formidable candidate, she had a stellar week, we talked about this last night, she really showed people this is what it would look like with me and donald trump on a debate stage. >> it would be brutal. it would look like --

>> the girl shows no mercy. you have to caution people that, you know, again, black people are not a homogenous group of people and senator harris appeals to a certain type of black person on the surface you have to look deeper and look at her policy. when people think this is where black women will go, she's greek, a member of aka, went to an hbcu, there are some people in my own family you talk to them with sororities and private colleges and you lose them. she has to reach beyond that, but unfortunately the media tends to focus on other things and other people who reflect a predominantly white media that is not very diverse. >> joy, we have been here before. just looking at that poll number and joe biden being so far ahead in general and among black women in particular, i seem to recall this happening in the run up to 2008. >> that's true. hillary clinton was way off. >> and black people were with hillary clinton because, well,

she is -- she is bill's wife and anything to get bill back in the white house i'm for it. >> yeah. >> so the fact that african-american women are with -- support joe biden by i think it said 47% is not surprising to me. my own mother is someone when i asked her what do you think, this is now back in january and she's watching, she's going to kill me, but back in january i asked her, you know, what are you thinking, and she said, i think -- i think we're going to need a white man. okay. which one? she said joe biden. when you talk to particularly older african-americans they're like joe biden because it's a loyal -- we are talking about loyalties here. >> and also black people are risk avers. black voters are risk avers. with the obama versus hillary african-american voters don't take a lot of risks. we want to know who is going to win. the most progressive person who can win. >> my mother was bill hillary until the night of the iowa caucuses. talk about risk avers. she did not want to put her heart on the line for something she couldn't imagine and then when they voted for him, i called her up and i said, so,

mom, where are you and she yells back obama, obama. i think the same thing can happen with senator harris and senator booker for african-americans and others to think that they really do have a shot and that there's not this inclusion exhaustion out there, they have to have a moment or have people actually go out and vote to show, no, there's no inclusion -- >> but part of that issue is that they bought into this old antiquated notion of what winning means. >> it means the white working class. >> we have to change that narrative in 2018. there were key constituency groups of color that determined flipping districts in some ways. the rising part of the country is more politically engaged, people have to let that go. appealing to white working class voters is not always a winning bet. >> gyasi, let me get you in on that specific case. biden's theory is that he can bring back the white working

class voter and hold african-americans and hold people of color because of he is obama's -- they're like that's our guy. >> right. >> the thing is that a lot of winning over and appeasing that voter, who is basically a republican, joe biden is saying things like in the past, these are not new things but in the past he said dick cheney seems like a good man. he said things like young people don't have it as hard. these are the things that people who are more progressive are is surfacing and saying it's not even clear that he is all that liberal. why is it that that is the answer if the country really isn't that group of people who are less than a third of the electorate? >> well, and with all due respect, i think tiffany made some incredible points. i humbly disagree. as a concession i don't want to disagree, but i do think that those middle class white voters are going to be the ones that swing this particular election. joe biden for all the accolades and poll numbers that he's getting right now, i don't think

that he's going to make it past the primary because he isn't liberal enough, because he isn't progressive enough, because he has a whole bunch of skeletons in his closet as anybody who has been in the public eye for 40 years will have. that said i think my humble opinion at this moment right now he is the person because of his appeal to a person in wisconsin or a person in michigan as a benign -- a trustworthy white guy who holds the presumed competence of an older white dude, he is the person that would be formidable on that stage against another, you know, old white guy, donald trump. but i don't see him making it past the primary and i have -- kind of hold my feelings in check regarding that because i don't think he is the best candidate. >> right. >> but i do think he is the best candidate at this particular moment to dethrone the current chump that's in the white house. >> you are about to be on here every weekend. do you see what you just ruined

your life. you can never have a day off again, a weekend off again. >> my mom texted me while we are on air. biden is older and has experience. explaining why. >> mama capehart is also on the panel. >> the thing is that there is this binary that people don't see it as an inclusive electorate. there is distrust of the american electorate among people of color but for white voters there is also a sense that donald trump has kind of destroyed what it means to be the american president and that the image that, you know, captain america is now lengths lex luther and finding another captain america is appealing. a heroic figure who looks like, quote/unquote, what a president looks like but who is a good person it's very tempting. >> it depends on who you are talking to. gyasi, i hear your point but it depends on who you're talking to. you can choose to focus on white middle class voters. >> and the democrats pretty much always do. >> but this is my point, if you

are one of these voters and you think, you know, i don't really like trump but i voted for him, i don't like his personality but i voted for him or i don't really like what he's doing but if i don't like who the democrats are going to put up i'm going to vote for him. you are not who democrats need to be going after. >> you are not going to vote for a democrat. >> and you are not a patriot while we are on the subject. i don't think that's who democrats need to be targeting. >> last word. >> seconded. >> a quick last word. jonathan and tiffany will be back next hour, gyasi ross will be back next weekend. >> thank you very much. tom foolery is next. thank tom foolery is next. feature maximum absorbency, beautiful colors and an improved fit for a sleek design and personal style. life's better when you're in it. be there with depend®. safe drivers shouldnt have to pay as much for insurance... as not safe drivers! that's why esurance has drivesense.® the safer you drive, the more you save. although i'm not really driving right now

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- the tech industry is supposed in invention and progress. but only 11% of its executives are women, and the quit rate is twice as high for them. here's a hack: make sure there's bandwidth for everyone. the more you know. i lost my voting eligibility for life before i ever had an opportunity to ever vote. >> why do you care? you've got your life back together. here you are at a fine law school doing very well. >> come every election, as much as i can forget about the fact that i'm disenfranchised, on election day i'm reminded. angel, you don't count. as much as it is a vestige of the jim crow era, today it's not just impacting african-americans, but it's

impacting people across the board. >> the republican bill would force former felons to pay a tax and pay all court ordered fees and restitution before being eligible to vote. the 24th amendment outlawed poll taxes for federal elections and they were declared unconstitutional altogether in 1996 when five states kept enforcing them. don't let that hold you back, florida gop. that's not the only thing they were up to this week. they passed a bill that would allow teachers to carry firearms in classrooms if they pass a training course. concern by black lawmakers, the teachers could essentially use florida's nra backed stand your ground law to disproportionately shoot black and brown students due to implicit biases. republican governor ron desantis is supposed to sign both of

those laws into force. thank you for being here. this idea of putting guns into classrooms. let me quickly tell you what senator chevron jones had to say about trying to get some kind of implicit bias training involved in that and teachers being able to use stand your ground. >> i ask for i78 police city -- implicit bias training because we're talking about black boys and girls getting murdered by bad police officers and bad teachers. >> 25 out of 67 school districts are participating. >> chevron jones is a hero among cowards in that room. we know, you don't have to take my advice or my word for it, we know what studies show. studies show young people of color, specifically young black men are disproportionately

disciplined in schools. they are unfairly viewed as threatening or more likely to cause disruption in the classroom and so that's why what the florida legislature did is so insulting and dangerous. when asked if there should be some sort of implicit bias training, the same bias training that law enforcement officers are required to take the legislature said absolutely not. when asked to reject the potential use of stand your ground law as a legal defense for murdering a student, the florida legislature again said, we don't think so. so the reality is this, and i think this is a nightmare scenario for communities of color in florida. at some point in the not so distant future you and i will be sitting here and we will be talking about a young person of color having been shot in their classroom and the florida legislature will not only have happened that teacher the gun, they'll have handed them the fool proof dleel fence as well.

this is a nightmare for communities of color. >> yeah, in the state where trayvon martin happened, not shot by a police officer but by a citizen who was able to claim the rights of a police officer, act in lieu of a police officer. the other thing that's going on here, the idea of redisenfranchising some of the 1.5 million people that just got their right to vote back. they decided to put in poll taxes and other legal means of keeping black people from voting. pay your poll tax and pay a fee to vote. now the florida republicans are saying, no, you have to pay all your fees before you vote again. what could that mean for the rights of people to vote in the state of florida. >> republicans are afraid of people voting. we saw that in georgia in the mid term elections and now we see it here with the poll tax. the more people that vote the less often republicans win. they're on a campaign nationally

to disenfranchise people and specifically communities of colors to make it difficult to get to the polls and to in essence rip the voting rights away to ensure that they stay in power. this is not a floridian issue, not a constituent issue. this is a lawmaker issue. they voted 65%. they didn't ask for bells and whistles and a poll tax. there's a myriad of things that the legislature seems to be totally tone deaf to. i would love to know whose phone calls are these lawmakers taking? who are they asking because it's clearly not asking florida n. 2016418,000 black people, nearly one in five were ineligible to vote. do you think florida is going to have a free and fair election in 2020? >> you know what, i really hope so.

i think it's going to take people like andrew gillum who's out there trying to register folks to vote. if republicans have their way, they very often do in the state of florida, they're going to make it as humanly impossible as they can. they're going to continue to pass nonsense legislation that nobody in florida supports so that's why it's really critical for people to get out there, to register folks to vote, to volunteer for campaigns and to make sure that we push back against this really tyrannical force of enforcement. >> come on, florida. thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. >> thanks. more "am joy" after the break. tender, smoky, and together on one plank... ...but not for long- so hurry in!

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the president has come out and said it's wrong that paul watson was banned on facebook and that the defamation of facebook saying he's an anti-semite is incredible. yes, mr. president, it's wrong but we need more than tweets. this is nazi germany level. this is racketeering. this is higher levels. we need your help. we need it now. you can take on big tech. you can take on the big social networks. they're already attacking you, undermining you and using military deception to lie to your face and say it's not happening. >> welcome back to "am joy" alex jones sent a, quote, emergency message to donald trump on friday imploring him to go after

the big tech companies after facebook in an effort to crack down on hate speech ban several prominent extremists from both facebook and instagram. the banned included alex jones, mile low unapalous and louis farrakhan. they banned info wars itself. info wars is an actual fake news site, not that trump will ever attack it. instead, trump spent saturday morning retweet iing their vide and he even retweeted white nationalists. trump said this week he will monitor the censorship of american citizens on social media platforms while talking his own conspiracy theory that social media, the mainstream media and the democratic party are all in cahoots to muzzle the

right. joining me is gabriel sherman, matt wright, sherene fischer and angelo carasoni. i'm going to you first, angelo. you were quoted in the washington post piece about the decision by facebook. you said the timing is never an accident when you have these massive catalyzing moments that are connected to real life consequences it puts pressure on facebook and others. why do you think they made this call? >> there's distinct civil rights push to recalibrate and think more broadly about what their rules are and how they go about enforcing them. separately there are these major moments in the christchurch shooting. there was another synagogue shooting in the united states. there as an intensification of hate and acting to that. i think one of the things that put into focus was the way that facebook was enforcing a lot of its rules was narrow and insufficient. it was sweeping up criticism

while simultaneously letting the other bad actors continue going around and driving up misinformation and putting people in danger. >> sherene mitchell you were quoted as saying facebook's moderation policies have allowed, you know, sort of hate and harassment to be weaponized against women of color, particularly those advocating social change. do you think banning individual users is a step in the right direction or what do you think? >> let's be honest. black women who have spoken about race on these platforms have been banned or suspended for saying things like white people. the bans happening with white nationalism is after the fact. after they have been able to run amuck and be able to say whatever they want to and be harmful to black and brown people. now everyone is concerned they are being banned when they've been able to be on these platforms unvetted, unchecked, do whatever they want. so now we're saying oh, we're going to ban them.

they are the ones that have been on these platforms consistently. now they're upcity set because that is being taken away from them. it should never have been given to them rather than do it now of the same fact. the people who have been banned info wars, alex jones, lewis farrakhan who espoused a lot of anti-semitic views. you have laura loomer who was actually banned from twitter for spreading misinformation from ylan omar. paul nehlen. do you think that that is a proportionate response to the harassment and the things that they have used the platform for? >> the first basic thing is that facebook is a private company. social media company still now are private companies. >> yeah.

>> they can do whatever the hell they want. that's part of freedom of speech. politicians including donald trump, not limited to him, democratic politicians are in a moment where everyone wants to regulate social media companies. they want to treat facebook like a speech utility. >> right, like it's a platform not content provider. >> western europe is kind of doing this right now. when we see that happens, who's going to be next in the barrel? i'll tell you who's going to be next in the barrel, it's going to be pro palestinian antizionist activists. it will be people like the sweet meteor of death who has an online ongoing parody of blowing up the company. >> there is a real sweet meteor of death? >> yeah, there is. i worry about all of us more than i worry about other things, which is to say every morning i wake up and there's a journalist asking for more people to be

banned on social media, including politicians. >> that seems to me to be strange. >> what do you make of the idea that now the president is stepping in? he met with the head of twitter with jack dorsey and complained about his follow lower count essentially saying he should have more followers than barack obama. etd' love to get them to give up a platform. >> the president has said so many assanine things in the past few years. what i worry about is politicians and the culture at large don't share the same epic right now. >> dave, we've watched this white house essentially throw out the constitution whether or not they have to, i don't know, respond to lawful subpoenas, follow the law that says they have to give tax returns or show

up when they're called to testify before congress and the president, you know, the speaker of the house said she's not sure he'll love office when he's ready to go and you have his attorney general indicating he's ready to investigate trump's enemies. could you see a situation where donald trump goes back to facebook, twitter and lay the heavy hand on sp them? there's a lot he could do to them. >> we've seen this before where the president has used his own grievances to intervene in the private market. it's been reported he asked his then economic advisor gary cohn to investigate tnt, the parent company of cnn. there's a past predicate for the president to intervene to act on his grudges. we haven't seen that with facebook and twitter but there's a precedent. >> i want to go back to the platforms. facebook shows up in the mueller report. this is element 5 from my

producers. muller has written by the end of the 2016 u.s. election, ira had the ability to reach millions of u.s. people and hundreds and thousands of participants and they say they reached 126 million people. you have companies like cambridge analytica who was trying to get people's information. do you think facebook needs to not worry so much about banning individuals but worry about that. >> it is happening again. i'm sorry. we experienced it in 2018 as well. we are experiencing that now. some of facebook's mechanisms trying to deal with what happened in 2016 harmed more brown and black people on the platforms and made it more

impossible to get things out there. they were banned. but we just saw trump's ads who were targeting muslim people was let go and they didn't stop them until someone brought the attention to facebook that these ads were there. so we've watched both facebook and twitter, by the way, have said out loud that they won't ban hate speech or use their algos to stop hate speech. we're talking about hate speech. we're not talking about conservative bias, we're talking about hate speech here. they won't ban that because of the algos. that's a problem because why? politicians are peddling in hate speech. we should stop that. we should ak nocknowledge that. both of these platforms have done that and understand this is part of the process. facebook had originally -- let's just go back. facebook had already originally said white nationalism on their platform was fine.

they're now saying it's not fine and that little part of this conversation is also, missed because they allowed that and they participated and that part that we're still avoiding, i was on youtube in 2009 and was removed to u tube for speaking up about the tech companies and race discrimination and yet alex jones gets to say whatever he wants. by the time they took alex jones off is when they decided to kind of give me my account back. we have a problem of the tech companies in general. >> angelo as an activist here, media matters monitors this, weighs in on it. >> we should go back to 2016 and see what lessons have been learned? in may of 2016 when mark zuckerberg went in and he met with them and he made a massive

overhaul based off of no data whatsoever, there was a three fold increase in the reach of fake news that's on facebook immediately after that. finally exceeded the reach of actual news outlets. they got work and so really what we're talking about here today with the bannings are not necessarily the bannings of these individuals but i'd like to take a step back and look at the rules. you need to get the rules. you need to get facebook to change the rules and say, oh, yeah, we're going to include white nationalism and white 13re78 supremacy and separatism. then look at the enforcement side of it. the one thing about this action that makes me feel a little bit better is that instead of using the basic key word analysis that they did in the past, they took it to a little bit more of a holistic view which is to say what are their activities and actions and are they actually contributing to harm of

individuals? so taking a broader view, actually allows more robust conversation and it eliminates some of the free speech censorship concerns and the reduction of those ideas while it enhances the enforcement and gets rid of people gaming the system that are abusive and designed to suppress the engagement and the participation of all kinds of communities, in particular women and people of color. >> i want to dovetail on that quickly. that kind of enforcement, it takes resources and people to engage and look at the content across the platform and evaluate it. facebook and twitter's business model is actually opposite of that. it requires as we were talking about algorithms and as few people as possible. they face a problem where wall street and the investors want but the pr parts of their

platforms would require them to hire vast new people. they want numbers and those numbers in twitter's case, they don't have to be human beings. >> this is why we should be very upset when donald trump is there. we need to be regulated. of course you do, as soon as you control a market, you write the rules that your competitors live with and they tonight have your money or your market share. that's what we should be afraid of. how that is going to affect speech, rules, internet rules going forward. >> the reality is a lot of people didn't realize facebook and instagram is the same company. >> i deleted my facebook account and i have an active instagram. >> what about the question of the data? these people are gone. that's taken care of. there are questions of what facebook is doing with the data.

we saw in the cambridge analytica strategy, is that being addressed? >> i think like a lot of things, most of the changes that we see with facebook are designed around public relations moments. they're not meaningful. they're not structural. they're not proactive. we're not having a conversation about deep fakes. we're not talking about future threats we're talking about how they're solving problems we've known about for the past couple of years. that's the part that concerns me. no, they're not. there's strong indicia. they got rid of the cambridge analytica set. there are plenty of other copies of the cambridge analytica data and there's not even an ongoing voegs. >> some of them are back again

doing some stuff for the trump campaign. that should be interesting for 2020. it's going to be a great year. thank you all very much. coming up, congresswoman r carmilla gyhall weighs in. >> mom: honey is that a chip? >> tech: they wanted it fixed fast so they brought it to us. >> mom: hi. >> tech: with our in-shop chip repair service, we can fix it the same day... guaranteed. plus with most insurance a safelite chip repair is no cost to you. >> mom: really? drive safely. all right. ♪ acoustic music >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, ♪ safelite replace. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist.

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we are going to use what process we have in the courts and elsewhere to get the answers and the information we need.

the attorney general, we got a letter late last night refusing to adhere to the subpoena. this is indefensible. we will make one more good faith attempt to negotiate and to get the access to the report that we need and then if we don't get that we will proceed to hold the attorney general in contempt and we'll go from there. >> how judiciary chairman jerry nadler has given them an ultimatum. turn it over by tomorrow or be held in contempt of congress. will it be enough and what happens if barr refuses? joining me now is congresswoman from washington state. >> great to be with you always, joy. >> before i get to the barr question, i want to get your reaction to the "new york times" article in which they interviewed the speaker of the house nancy pelosi in which she said she's not sure donald trump will willingly leave if he loses

re-election in 2020. your reaction to that? >> i think she is articulating what we are all feeling. this is a president like no other. he is in my opinion moving us from a democracy towards a dictatorship where equal branches of government, co-equal branches of government don't get authority or jurisdiction. i think she's articulating a fear that prapgserhaps a lot of people have that there's nothing indicating the president will follow the rules much less the rules of an election. >> do you expect william barr to turn over the full mueller report as demanded by congress tomorrow? >> i the am not hopeful that he will but i -- we want to give him one more chance to do that. i think the chairman has been very, very patient. this is our last opportunity to

make sure that the department of justice complies with a co-equal branch of government. when you say we are not going to comply with any of the subpoenas, number one that the president has been saying. number two, par said in his letter to us where he declined to provide the full unredacted mueller report and underlying information, he said he does not see a legitimate legislative -- we do not have legitimate legislative authority which is absolutely crazy. congress legislates everything from, you know, issues around election security. volume one was all about russians interfering with our election. volume two, all about obstruction of justice. well within our legislative authority and well within our

jurisdiction. for him to deny us takes us to this next step of a white house that does not believe that congress is a co-equal branch of government. >> yeah. >> i think that is incredibly dangerous. >> if he doesn't turn it over, what will congress do? what is the next sanction? >> we will cite him for contempt. we will issue a contempt citation. as you know, there are two sort of means of enforcing that, one is through the courts. and we will explore every single avenue we have. the secretary secretary is through inherent contempt. you can jail people for not complying. there are fines. there are all kinds of avenues and if the attorney general continues to insist on being defense counsel for the president instead of attorney general for the entire country and refuses to turn over this information, we're going to be looking at every sing willing one of those legal avenues that we have. >> would the house of

representatives consider cutting off funding to the department of justice which is also within your power to do or cutting off his salary? >> i think everything is on the table. attorney general barr should resign. he should not be in that office. i think he has proven exactly what we all knew when he sent that 19 page memo last year before he was attorney general auditioning for the job and says saying he couldn't be indicted. saying he is above the law. i have to tell you, joy, when i saw mueller had written not just one but two letters to barr saying he misrepresented what was in the report, that his summary, his four-page summary was not a summary at all, that robert mueller cared so much about getting the real information and the report out to the american people that he prepared his own summaries of volume 1 and volume too.

there was no reason for barr to take 39 days basically or to release the report or find out robert mueller didn't think he had done a service to what was in the report. i've got to tell you, i was floored that barr could not only misrepresent, get those letters, lie in front of the house and senate about whether robert mueller had agreed with his characterization of the findings and then give a news conference and do the whole thing again, exactly what mueller said he disagreed with. >> you talked about him lying in front of two committees, one in the senate and the house. speaker pelosi believes he committed a crime. >> he did. a crime for which anybody else would be put in jail. this is the seriousness of what

we have. an attorney misrepresented the facts in order to protect the president, an attorney general saying that there was no evidence for all kinds of things when in the report, i'll just give you two examples, in the obstruction of justice section two places where robert mueller said substantial evidence exists that the president told don mcgahn not to tell the truth about the president's attempts to term my nate the special counsel. they were trying to terminate the special counsel's investigation because it was into his performance and actions and obstruction of justice. these are substantial charges of epic proportions and i think that everybody in the country should be worried about what this president is doing and what this administration is doing. >> i'm going to ask you quickly,

i'm going to pivot to robert mueller. let me play you, your colleague, david sisilini of rhode island speaking on fox news earlier. >> tentative date has been set for may 15th. we hope the special counsel will appear. we think the american people have a right to hear directly from him. >> let me interrupt because we're running out of time. when you say a tenttive date has been soet, has he agreed? >> i think the representative's special counsel has but absolutely until the date comes we never have an absolute guarantee. >> can you give us anymore clarity on that? whether or not we can expect to see him arrive. it's up to robert mueller and our judiciary to set the date, which is one good thing.

we have said we want him to come in before the 23rd. we had asked 230for the 15th. we have to get him in as quickly as possible so we can hear directly from him what was in that report and ask him some questions so that we can clarify exactly why he didn't come to a charging decision, what was under some of those ten obstruction of justice potential charges that he laid out and the more bill barr tries to diminish mueller by calling his letter snitty, i think the more lead he gives to robert mueller to get truly angry and tell us exactly what he thinks and where he -- you know, where he thinks congress should go. so that is an essential piece. so is the testimony of don mcgahn. we've got to get don mcgahn in to testify and we will be pursuing that as well as his

legal secretary that took the notes that in some ways might be the smoking gun equivalent of the white house tapes. >> we will be keeping an eye on that and whether congress can enforce the article 1 powers. thank you so much. >> thank you. coming up, the white house tries to explain the bizarre phone call between trump and putin. putin. ♪ limu emu & doug what do all these people have in common, limu? [ paper rustling ] exactly, nothing. they're completely different people, that's why they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual. they'll only pay for what they need! [ gargling ] [ coins hitting the desk ] yes, and they could save a ton. you've done it again, limu. only pay for what you need.

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i don't get your point. >> well, i -- >> i'm confused. i'm confused. >> let me make it. >> you are looking at the administration that has been tougher on russia than any of

its predecessors and yet you continue to be fixated on something robert mueller wrote down. >> i'm not fixated on robert muller. i'm fixated on the president's conversation with vladimir putin and he doesn't mention meddling in 2020. the question i'm asking, i think it's legitimate one, a lot of people are asking it, why not? >> i talk to leaders a lot of times. we cover a broad range of subjects. sometimes conversations aren't long enough to cover every issue that may be brought up. >> everybody is lits rally laughing. secretary of state, mike pompeo defended the boss this morning over trump's hour plus long phone call with vladimir putin and trump's failure to confront him over russia's interference in the 2016 election. joining me is jonathan capeheart, e.j. dionne.

we're double washington post down. >> i'm sad not to be there. >> we wish we had cocktails but we don't. let me get to react to that, e.j. there is a thing you have to perform -- those are not dock tailings. you have to perform when you work for donald trump is that you have to twist yourself into his link kboe and words and you have to throw your reputation out the door. is that what pompeo is doing at this point? >> that's amazing. trump had an hour long conversation with vladimir putin in this teens si tiny little thing of russia interfering in our election, there just wasn't room for that. i mean, i think what you saw there was pompeo trying to deal with the complete contradiction of trump's policy on russia by calling out chris wallace for pointing out the contradiction that the administration has

pulled out. the fbi and cia have called attention to russia's role in interfering in our election and trump just doesn't want to mention it. and so pompeo is stuck there. it's another story of basically trump ends up corrupting everyone who works for him because pompeo just has to twist himself into a pretzel because he holds one view on russia and trump clearly holds another, just like he seems to love kim jong-un no matter what. >> he said on with him. >> there's two versions of it. either the people get corrupted because something about trump mesmerizes them or they were open to be this kind of people. >> mike pompeo is a liar. we should start there. everybody who works in his administration comes out and lies repeatedly. because you keep saying something does not make it true. trump was in the oval office trading secrets. >> brought him right in.

>> trading, just giving. >> exactly. just giving. >> he didn't get anything. >> exactly. i think the way these things get overlooked is so dangerous. we are watching our democracy fall in real time. >> that's the thing. >> people are being spoon fed lies and they're consuming them as though they're the gospel which is scary. i know there's a lot of issues around congress and there are a lot of investigations happening and they have to build the case. we talked about pelosi's office and she details all the things that they are doing targeting this president, it's like the news cycle is not a 24 hour news cycle. when you lay all that stuff out back to back to back -- >> why don't they? shouldn't they do that? this is republicans talking about william barr, okay? we have senator kennedy, not that kennedy family, the republican kennedy and of course jim dord dan. this is like the a-team of trump, you know, obedient trump

supporters. here they are. many thought he was going to indict the press. >> the democrats r scared. when we're balking about -- >> i'm almost embarrassed to have played that. what was that? is that a member of the united states congress? >> yeah. >> i just want to admit right now, i almost cursed on air. i just want to put that out there. >> technically we're cable. we're cable. >> those two people should be ashamed of themselves. >> but they're not. >> they're not, no, no, they aren't but they should be. those are -- those were the republicans who used to lecture me/us about morality, about reverence for the constitution, about reverence for the office of the presidency, about the rule of law, constitution, all of those things. they're there on the air excusing all of these things, defending bill barr? >> yeah. >> the united states no longer

has an attorney general. the president has his roy cohen, but the american people don't have someone looking out for their best interest. from bill barr to secretary of state mike pompeo, these folks are not talking to the american people, they're not talking on behalf of the american people, they are talking to president trump. they're talking to the boss because they know the boss is watching and if they're talking to him and not to the rest of us, to tiffany's point, we are watching the crumbling of our democracy and there are no more breaks in place. >> there was a piece by jim comey that says president trump eats at your soul. do you have a theory they want to be close to power.

they say we should support him and it's worth accepting all of this other stuff, but a lot of it has to do with the radicalization of the republican party that's been going on for 20 years and trump has carried it to an extreme that we should have anticipated, could have anticipated and now they say holding on to power is more important than anything we used to say, we care about. barr performance was really appalling and he signaled that's what he was going to do in his hearing in january. nobody should being surprised but we should be shocked. >> exactly. senator cory booker was on cnn. this is hard neurosurgeon tv. he's talking about his support for medicare for all. here he is. >> do you support medicare for all? >> i stand by supporting for medicare for all.

i'm the pragmatist when i'm chief of the country, i'll find what i can do. we're not going to pull health insurance from 150 million americans. >> it's been a tough go for candidate booker. he's sort of a rising star -- not even sort of, he just is and has been. it's difficult to get traction. the issues he's looking to get traction on are not issues that are new for him. is it a wise strategy not trying to carve out something completely his own? >> medicare for all, this puts him at a divide for the bernie bros. booker's biggest challenge is he seems to believe that love conquers all. >> right. >> it just does not. sometimes a girl has to come from high. >> get a pot of hot grits. >> look at you. >> that works, too. >> in this environment where we're seeing republicans pull

out every dirty trick, throw away reason and long beginning and truth, you can't really meet those people with kocoombaya. he can't come out and call republicans racists despite everything our seeing, thinking selves watch displayed before us. i like cory backer -- >> joe biden says that he thinks this is -- this is i thought was of the people in this. he was put into office like being down from space. there are millions and millions of people, look at the polls, they love what he does. majority of men, majority of white voters at least half like what he is doing. trump is not an island. saying he's the only bad actor and there's no one around him. he's just a thing unto himself but trumpism really doesn't exist, why does he get away with

that? >> he's only a week into this and that comes back to haunt him. >> in a general election -- >> right. >> in a general election i could see that. i'm with tiffany saying you're going to get three of them. people are not going to change their votes. it's tribal. if you voted for trump, you are going to vote for him. it's tribal. there are amy klobuchar on being able to somehow wrestle these people away mr. this person. i think his campaign manager almost am said he was close to jesus, he was close to a savior. he said that. >> there's a contradiction biden has to solve. it's very clear from the 2018 election that there are some

just say they're not happy with him. that's why pennsylvania and michigan and wisconshich is koc to do business with democrats, that just won't sell. but if a majority in the senate aren't going to vote for this it should apply to everything. you're not going to get these either. jonathan and tiffany will be back. e.j., go out and have a wonderful brunch. thank you. >> thank you. up next, my panel, these two lovely folks here are going to tell you and me who won the week! maria ramirez? hi. maria ramirez! mom! maria!

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>> good morning, everyone. i'm joy reed and welcome to "a.m. joy." good morning, everyone, welcome to "a.m. joy." despite the fact you had the condemnation of donald trump from the national security establishment, he's within four points of hillary clinton on questions of national security. why do you think that is? >> he exploits fear. >> what do you suppose the reason he is so excitable? >> he just has thin skin. >> first of all, i'm dying to get your reaction to michelle obama's speak. >> michelle obama is like a prophet on the mountain. >> i think we are in a situation of national security crisis that is only going to get bigger. >> that was the first time he was on. >> a strat stick political warfare operation against the united states and we are at cyber war with them. they are running an operation to select or influence their preferred candidate to get into the white house. i think katy turr hit itten othe head. do you have any pause about what you're doing and no pause

whatsoever. >> one of the groups that created donald trump is the congress. >> my uncle harry. no relation. >> today the resistance will be televised, live from washington, d.c., where more than 200,000 people are expected to gather to join the women's march on washington. >> i have a greater degree of discomfort with the latino in the washington, d.c., area, where a 15-year-old was savagely attacked by members of ms13. >> these people by definition of working. they are poor. they don't have the money to buy insurance. how would giving them more choices help them if they don't have any money to buy any of the choices? >> first of all, i would question whether they're all working. >> hillary clinton took money from the chinese in 2008. >> that's not true. violent clashes are under way in charlottesville, virginia, as counter protesters confront white nationalists marching in a "unite the right" rally. sxwlifs invited in to give a speech and as we were closing

down -- i've got to go. i've got to go. >> my goodness, i don't know what just happened there. >> we were saying the hurricane is gone but it's still gnawing at us. >> this week the state of alabama took a stand and dodged a bullet. rejecting republican roy moore, the trump endorsed accused mild molester and the horse he rode in on. the outcome of the vote in november could determine which party controls whether you keep your health care. it may wind up being the biggest political upset of the year, alexandria owe casio cortez stunning defeat of reilly. >> it resonates. >> i'm going to throw it over to you. >> i tell folks i am mississippi raised and georgia grown and there is no higher honor than of that marley evers endorse my race for governor of georgia. >> democrats took control of the house for the first time in eight years, shattering glad ceilings and ushering in the most diverse congress in u.s.

history. senator kamala harris. >> joy reed. >> thank you for being here in this beautiful capitol. senator cory booker, thanks for having us. >> thanks for being -- >> in your house. we invaded your man cave. >> joining me the governor of washington state, jay ensley. joining me is andrew yang, thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> my name is elizabeth, i'm running for president, i say to little girls, because that's what girls do. >> wow. [ cheers and applause ] ♪ >> and a cake! oh, you guys are so cute. >> hank and murray. >> oh my gosh. murray, oh my gosh, murray is back, our director, and you, and you, and you, and you! oh, thank you, hank. you guys are great. this is so -- surprise! thank you guys so much.

this is awesome. well now i don't want to continue but i have to. you always win the week because you are our favorite, these are some of our favorite guests. tiffany and jonathan, part of the "a.m. joy" family, and thank you to all of the viewers who tuned in and supported the show. the show is so much fun and we're always talking about subjects that are kind of dark but we manage to have a good time. >> and inform audiences. >> i don't know how much time we have left but joy, wherever i go, people always say, i watch "a.m. joy" i love "a.m. joy" thank you for what you are doing. you have to understand and know for a lot of people you are a lifeline to sanity. >> thank you. i'm going to cry. i love you guys, bye. more after the break.

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that is our show. "a.m. joy" will be back next saturday 10:00 a.m. eastern. up next my girl with the with the alex witt is back. >> what a pleasure, pride i've taken following you the last three years. the fact is you and i are sisters from another mother. i love that relationship. >> you were the first person i was on msnbc, so you were my deb debut and i love you. >> fast friends and thanks for the great lead-ins. good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters in new york. it's high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. out