that is our show. "a.m. joy" will be back next saturday 10:00 a.m. eastern. up next my girl with the with the alex witt is back. >> what a pleasure, pride i've taken following you the last three years. the fact is you and i are sisters from another mother. i love that relationship. >> you were the first person i was on msnbc, so you were my deb debut and i love you. >> fast friends and thanks for the great lead-ins. good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters in new york. it's high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west.

welcome to "weekends with alex witt." nancy pelosi's new warning to testimonies how the president could contest the 2020 election results. plus the rainy day monday in the white house amongst a series of events that could rattle the president. down to the line, maximum security wins the kentucky derby! >> there was a raining day. hold your horses. the historic disqualification at the kentucky derby explained. the battle between white house and congress is likely to reach a new level this week. there is growing anticipation as to when the special council may testify, whether it will happen before the end of the month. plus the attorney general faces a deadline tomorrow to respond to an ultimatum to release the full, unredacted mueller report. republicans in the white house are defending barr. >> many of my democratic friends thought that mueller was going to indict the president. they don't know what to do, so

they're attacking bill barr. >> the democrats are scared and frankly, i think when we're talking about obstruction of justice, the real obstruction of justice is what democrats are trying to do to the attorney general. >> some democrats are calling for the attorney general to recuse himself from the 14 criminal referrals the special counsel sent to other prosecutors. >> mr. barr should not be a hindrance or raise any questions about whether this is going to be an investigation and a prosecution with total integrity. he has raised that question because of his characterization of mueller testimony. >> also happening tomorrow, treasury secretary steve mnuchin will announce whether he is releasing the president's tax returns. plus the president's former attorney, michael cohen, begins his prison sentence. then on tuesday, former white house counsel don mcgahn is due to provide documents as the white house and the

president seek to block multiple subpoenas and requests from democrats in congress. listen to the ranking member of the house judiciary committee. >> if the chairman would actually engage and find a way to find accommodations, offer accommodations, do the things that have been done in the past historically, instead of rushing to do a contempt or rushing to a press release or rushing to make an assumption, then i think we could get to the oversight that we need to have on this. >> wow, did you hear that? meanwhile a new poll by nbc news and the "wall street journal" shows the public does remain divided over the outcome of robert mueller's investigation. 60% of americans say the president has been dishonest in the russia investigation, while only about a third believe the mueller report clears the president of wrongdoing. the president's job approval though has not changed a lot, it's now at about 46%, and nearly half of americans surveyed oppose impeachment while the other half wants immediate impeachment hearings or more investigations. as the white house touts that unemployment is at its lowest

level since 1969, presidential candidates say economic inequality persists. >> i love that trump is taking credit for a recovery started under obama. >> i do not believe that trump's massive tax breaks for billionaires is the cause of the good economy. >> there are people out there that are not sharing in this economic prosperity. >> they can't afford a middle class lifestyle, and donald trump has done nothing to help with that. >> let's go from there now to the white house, and mike viq viquiera. two or three or four showdowns expected this week. how is the house responding via messaging or surrogates? >> the white house is stonewalling all of these requests coming from house democrats, alex and you're right, ratcheting up to another level. both sides hurdling to a major

confrontation. this sounds like hyperbole when you say a constitutional crisis and house democrats were talking last week openly about the possibility, listen to this, of actually having the house sergeant at arms go and arrest people, put them in a jail, if they won't comply with a request for both testimony and documents. so it's reaching that point, the soonest point comes at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow, as you reported, nancy pelosi and jerry nadler, the chairman of the house judiciary committee are insisting bill barr give them that full unredacted mueller report, and incidentally, alex, one of the top democrats on the committee who is not the chairman said today on television that they believe that mueller, he believes that mueller will testify on may 15th. i want to caution everybody, that's not set in stone now, according to our reporting. couple that with the investigations of the demand for

president's tax returns and don mcgahn's testimony. the republican senator from louisiana had this to say about the situation. >> the dispute between the white house and the house is dangerous to america's institutions. they need to work it out. if they all go to court and it becomes a zero sum game, one or two things is going to happen. trump's going to win, and that's going to undermine congress's oversight ability, or congress is going to win, the house is going to win and all of a sudden, the new standard is that the house or the senate can ask a president or a presidential nominee anything they want to about their personal life, whether it's relevant to being president or not. >> so what's the compromise? >> i think that's a dangerous precedent. >> reporter: aex-will, the pressure on nancy pelosi from within the democratic caucus ratcheting up, growing even louder for impeachment proceedings to begin in that judiciary committee. she still says no.

she favors investigations. meanwhile, an election year looms. many democrats feel like that is the best course to continue these investigations and wait until the election to try to oust president trump. alex? >> mike, looking at the president's twitter, he's making a staffing announcement apparently this morning. can you tell us about that? >> reporter: that's right. he's put forward a new nominee to head i.c.e. that individual is mark morgan. the president writes "i am pleased to inform aum of those that believe in a strong, fair and sound immigration policy that mark morgan will be joining the trump administration as the head of our hard-working men and women of i.c.e. mark is a true believer and an american patriot. he will do a great job." remember, it was april 5th, alex, when the president withdrew his previous nominee, ron vitiello. he said he wanted to go in a tougher direction. two days after that, the major shakeup, kirstjen nielsen was ousted finally by the president. now the president has a new

nominee. this individual happened to have worked for i.c.e., sorry, head of the border patrol over the last six months of the obama administrati administration. since then he's publicly endo e endorsed the president's initiative to build the border wall and the president has a new nominee to head i.c.e. >> i was going to ask you more but you filled in the blanks. thank you. joining me tessa baronson from "time" magazine and charlie sava savage, for the "new york times" and also msnbc contributor. welcome to you both. charlie, in addition to all of these headlines that are ahead aemgs is building for the special counsel to testify. you're probably hearing it, david cicilline had a discussion, may 15th is a tentative date. what if anything could stop him from testifying? >> the trump administration, including attorney general barr who remains his boss have said

they're perfectly willing to let bob mueller testify. it's what's convenient for his schedule, if that's the case, but it could be the case that the trump administration reverses itself and says they're not going to let him testify, orders him not to show up. that's the thing that does not look like it's going to happen, but unless and until the day happens and he shows up and raises his hand and takes the oath, i think we should wait and see. >> okay, but i know you want to wait and see but is there a sense, charlie, that a testimony by bob mueller could change the narrative at all, the with thaun followed t one that followed the release of the findings by bill barr? >> that's the huge question. the question is raised, attorney general barr puts out this four-page letter and for four weeks, or three weeks, that's the public's understanding. very clean exoneration, no collusion, no obstruction as the president likes to say. we see the final report, there

was complicit conduct that fell short of conspiracy agreement in terms of it welcoming and expecting russian interference to help the campaign and all kinds of episodes that look like obstruction of justice, and mueller was saying it's premature to make a charging decision until the president is no longer in office as opposed to barr said mueller left it to him to say no obstruction, move on. three weeks that impression hardened and now we already know what mueller actually was saying. does it change anything? would republicans be on the path to impeachment? i doubt it. nevertheless, it's probably important for the public to hear mueller say it directly on television, rather than just read the words in a 400-page report. >> yes, so tessa, we had the mueller report at one point, the investigation, rather, a dark cloud hanging over the white house, but as you lay out in this latest piece titled requests how trump is using the mueller report to reshape washington's balance of power." it appears as though this topic is what politically expedient

now for the president? can you elaborate on that? >> the white house certainly views it andin many ways as politically expedient as well as the trump campaign. i talked to members of the trump 2020 campaign who said they will be using this on the campaign trail as a weapon against democrats, kaylee mcananey the national press secretary told us it creates a massive credibility problem for the left. in their view trump is exonerated by mueller's findings and they think they can tell voters that democrats were wrong on this huge investigation for two years, thinking it would end an indictment against trump. so the campaign will be using it in their messaging strategy. in terms of the white house, they're also using the report as a shield in certain ways against participating more with congressional investigations. i talked to white house officials who basically hold up this report and point to all of the cooperation by many, many white house officials, don

mcgahn and others, with the report as a reason they don't now need to cooperate with congress. one white house official told me in their view it weakens chairman nadler's function. i think you'll see in the campaign and on the white house side them using this report as a weapon and as a shield >> how effective that will be remains in question. the "wall street journal"/nbc news report 60% of americans saying we think the president was dishonest when it comes to the russia investigation. there's that. charlie, with regard to democrats, as you've been reporting, i know, they continue to issue subpoena after subpoena, talking up the release of the full mueller report, hoping to get that tomorrow, the unredacted one. how can democrats carry out their oversight responsibilities without bolstering the president's narrative?

>> no one should expect the full report will be turned over by tomorrow or trump's taxes. the writing is on the wall this is headed to court. democrats in making these revived efforts to say let's talk about it, maybe we can meet you a deal. what they're doing is laying the ground work to say to a judge down the road we have tried to negotiate, we have tried to accommodate solutions that can overcome a claim of executive privilege, if and when trump decides it's time to make that, which is probably when the deadline comes due. so this is how can they do it? they have to go to court. by holding barr or others in contempt, by filing a civil lawsuit in asking a judge for a judicial order, saying that the subpoena is valid and the executive branch officials have to comply with it. that means if trump officials continue to stonewall, they would not just be in contempt of congress but in contempt of court and the key difference is that the justice department can decline to prosecute someone for contempt of congress, but if you are in contempt of court, the justice department declines to prosecute that, the judge has

the power to appoint his own special prosecutor to bring the case anyway. so it has more teeth. >> yes. last question to you, tess, with regard to nancy pelosi, who is concerned that the president would not ultimately be removed by impeachment, rather than a tremendous victory in 2020 and if the victory's margin is too small, it thereby could be a constitutional crisis because he would challenge it. what are the concerns there from pelosi and are they valid? is that a generally held perception? >> i do think we've seen trump call into question election results before and i don't think it's a far-fetched idea if it's a razor thin margin of loss for him in the election that he would put up a fight. you know, i think what makes this situation interesting as pelosi is considering whether to go down the path of impeachment and as all house democrats are, i talked to constitutional experts and law professors and one thing they point out is that watergate and iran-contra,

pointing to two presidential scandals in recent memory, happened in the second term of a presidency, whereas here, it's obviously in trump's first term, and so as democrats weigh whether to put the country through this very difficult process of impeachment, there's this sort of automatic back stop in november 2020, where this question will be kicked to the voters anyway. so that's certainly a consideration of maybe it's better to just let voters decide at the ballot box, since we have that option this time, because it happened in the first term. >> tessa berenson, charlie savage, thanks. >> thank you. michael cohen and nancy pelosi in agreement about how the president might act when it comes to the 2020 election results. we were touching on it. we'll do so further, after a break. coke, dr pepper and pepsi hear you. we're working together to do just that. bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all. smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels and reminders to think balance.

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given my experience working for mr. trump, i fear that if he loses the election in 2020, that there will never be a peaceful transition of power. >> the president's former attorney and fixer, michael cohen, back in february, this is before the house oversight committee and now three months later, the house speaker is voicing those same concerns, in a new interview with the "new york times," speaker pelosi warned democrats that the president "would not give up power voluntarily if he lost re-election by a slim margin next year." joining me now democratic congressman from tennessee steve cohen, member of the house judiciary committee and frequent guest. it's good to see you, my friend.

thank you for joining me. do you share the same concerns as the house speaker? are you worried this could turn into a constitutional crisis? >> there's no question that it will. this president loves power. he will do anything to maintain it and to keep it, and he will, contemptuous of congress, not turning over documents, asking people not to testify, it would be like a prosecuteor in court where they have a duty to turn over exculpatory evidence to the other side, there's no case here. i'm not going to do it, and refuse to turn it over. those are the rules and he has to do it. he'll do anything and as michael cohen said, he doesn't think trump will leave office in a peaceful way. we've got a constitutional crisis. we've got in the courts we're seeing evidence and having witnesses and after we got a crisis concerning the election with the russians meddling. they will continue to meddle, and trump doesn't care, because he sees it to his advantage and if he loses, i don't think the man will leave office in a

respectable fashion. >> sir, you talk about rules. donald trump does not always play by the rules, or he interprets the rules to his liking and to his benefit. so what will the democrats be able to do to protect the constitution of the united states? do you think american institutions, are they strong enough to hold against this? >> i think they are. they must be. we have gone to court on the emoluments clause and two courts are looking into his violations of the emoluments clause which is a constitutional prohibition on him, taking money from foreign powers to eventually influence his decisions. we're going to have investigations and oversight, which is one of congress's duties into his actions with obstruction of justice and his actions with offering pardons, which is part of obstruction of justice, unconstitutional acts that he's engaged in and we will go to court to see documents, to see evidence, to see the

unredacted mueller report that in the past the attorney general has gone with the majority party to see documents, ask the court to do it. i think justice howell, judge howell will do it, whether barr goes with us or not, but it would be best for him to go with us. but barr has shown himself to be trump's lawyer, like john mitchell was mixnixon's lawyer. acting in illegal manners, he lied and is contemptuous of congress. >> why do you think your party doesn't support fully the idea of impeachments? shouldn't the process of impe h impeachment and the line it draws for this president outweigh the political risk or do you say we could maybe get it in the house but not going to get it done in the senate? >> that's what we're looking at, alex. my buddy was warren zivan, he wrote about the excitable boy, sometimes he called me the

excitable senator. i'm also sometimes the excitable congressman and i got upset with charlottesville. there weren't fine people on both sides, that's when i drew up my articles of impeachment in 2017. he smiled at putin and he was happy about that, almost got me ready to want to put my articles in again. i've had them annotated and ready to go. nancy pelosi is keeping us on a better course. i have to keep the passions to the most important overall overcome the removal of donald trump by the people in november of 2020. the republicans obviously want us to go far with impeachment because their polling will show it helps them politically and if that's what it does, we can't have that happen. we can't do the right thing and lose on the big issue and the big issue is november of 2020, and removing this president, who does not act in a presidential fashion, and a constitutional fashion from office, and get us back to the rule of law, and to

the american democracy republic that benning majamin franklin g. "we've given you a republic cif you can keep it." >> you were clamoring for impeachment all the way among the first to do so, some time ago. you're listening to nancy pelosi -- >> i am but i see the big picture. i was with bishop michael curry in memphis, episcopal bishop. when the power of love overcomes the love of power, we will know peace. i had to think about donald trump. he knows the power of love but has no conception -- he knows the love of power but has no conception of the power of love. >> let me get hypothetical with you for a moment regarding don mcgahn, should he testify before your committee. what is next? because if the party has shied away from impeachment and you can't under the justice

department guidelines indict a sitting president, why is his testimony so important? >> his testimony is important to show the american people what happened and a lot of people -- people didn't read the mueller report and accept what barr and trump put out as a stage, that there's no collusion, which is not the issue. it was conspiracy, and no obstruction, and they've accepted that and his base accepted it. we need to get the whole public to hear straight from the testimony of the individuals that were before the mueller report and dealt with trump to show how he obstructed justice and told him to fire mueller, which he did. he said to get rid of it and barr's concept that he can do whatever he wants and if the president deems that it's not unconstitutional or not wrong it's hooey. few people in the legal community accept that kind of a standard and if you did, you wouldn't have a republic with three co-equal branches of government, what we're blessed with by the founding fathers. we want mcgahn to testify.

we want mueller to testify and hopefully he'll come on the 15th but nothing's confirmed and i think we should ask jeff sessions to come in, too. he could lay some things out as well. we need the american public to understand what's happened. the russians have attacked our system of government. they've influenced our elections. they did it through social media. i heard senator kennedy on and he said the russians have done this for 60 years. they just did a little more. hooey. we didn't have facebook. we didn't have instagram. we didn't have twitter 60 years ago. this has been a phenomena over the last five to ten years, where it's gotten so big and the russians took advantage of it and put out psychological information to try to sway the voters and they were successful. >> last question for you. friday, you said that you would support imprisoning the attorney general, if he refused to testify. do you see any political risks that would come from that? because there are those that would argue that is overreach. >> well, there are, but there's

some things, he's been contemptuous of congress and we have to respect the institution which we serve for future generations. you can't have future congresses, you can't have an attorney general who tries to dictate the terms, which is not his job, who refuses to appear and holds documents up. there's no question what he did with his stunt of giving a three and a half page summary and waiting three to four weeks to release the report but beforehand having a press conference to try to really set the standard. he was brain wash something what he was doing. they were trying to create and establish a mind-set of what the report said, which is not what it said. he did not say anything -- that's why mueller was upset, so no, if we do a contempt of congress that doesn't involve physically bringing him in by the sergeant of arms, his justice department will refuse to comply with it and end up in court. nothing will come up. we need to do some concrete things to show that we are following our oaths, our constitutional duties and responsibilities for this and

future congresses, and not let this administration run over us. as far as the president, if we can't impeach him, because i don't think the senate would impeach him if he shot the person on fifth avenue, we could censure him and a censure in the house which we can do, without the senate, would at least have us go on record as oadmonishing him for illegal conduct. the mueller report shows there was obstruction of justice. there wasn't guilt beyond a reasonable doubt but you don't need preponderance of the evidence for impeachment or censure. we need to eventually censure this president and that's unfortunately the best we can do the best with a senate that is totally in his control and lacks the spine to uphold the constitution. >> all right, i do have to get your response to one more thing, because as you know, you've been criticized a lot for the props you brought to the hearing on thursday. you brought a bucket of kentucky fried chicken, and then that small chicken statue there. i want to give you an opportunity to respond to some of the criticism you've received. here is a little compilation of it.

take a listen, everyone. >> well, this thursday in congress was take your chicken awork day and just think about the poor intern who had to go find a kfc at dawn. >> they disgraced themselves completely, the chicken stunt. >> it's embarrassing. >> steve cohen is lame humor, personified. if he knew his chicken he'd bring popeye's, not kfc. >> it's a shame for democracy when you bring the colonel into it. >> he's racially insensitive and can you imagine if that was a republican doing that to a democrat? >> i don't know, you made "snl." that's pretty huge but what do you want to say to those folks? >> it was humor. the "new york times" referred to it as levity. i intended to create

#chickenbarr, his inability to stand up to the councils, norm eisen and barry burke, attorney general with the acumen of an attorney general should not be afraid for the hearing and there's plenty of precedent for it. one of my staffers went out the night before and got some kfc. another staffer brought in the porcelain ceramic chicken. sarah silverman's become my adviser through the twitter. she said that was a hat on a hat, one would have been fine, two was too much and i guess i hammed up a bit, a bad thing for a jewish guy to do, eating the chicken. it was cold and not wonderful. >> extra crispy or original? >> i would have gone with the four-way grill from memphis or gus' from memphis but fedex couldn't get it on the short notice. but a little humor is okay and i've got some hunter thompson in me and it didn't hurt and people know more about chicken barr

than they ever did before. >> point well taken. always good to see you. thank you. >> thank you, alex. the kentucky derby upset that put a different horse into the winning slot, and why so many, including the president, are challenging the final call. and emotionally support children in urgent need. it's not just about opening up your home; it is also about opening up your heart. consider fostering. i swibecause they let metual, customize my insurance. - and as a fitness junkie, i customize everything, like my bike, and my calves. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ eh, not enough fiber... chocolate would be good... snacking should be sweet and simple. the delicious taste of glucerna gives you the sweetness you crave while helping you manage your blood sugar. glucerna. everyday progress

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now to that historic decision in the kentucky derby. look at this video of why the horse that crossed the finish line first was disqualified. maximum security, the overwhelming favorite, was found to have veered out of its lane, interfering with other horses on that final turn. joining me pat forte, senior writer at yahoo! sports. as you wrote, maximum controversy here around this 145th year of the kentucky derby. walk us through what actually happened. >> okay, maximum security wins the race, and then as everybody's beginning to celebrate, there's an announ announceme announcement, the result is unofficial, that means the stewards are looking in to a claim of foul, which was lodged by two of the riders in the race, that maximum security, as you said, veered out of his lane and interfered with the path of a couple of horses, war of will and long ranged toy.

look at the replay head-on, it's clear that's what happened, to a point it would have been a disaster if either of those riders weren't outstanding in keeping their horses up and keeping them from falling down and causing a horrible spill. so then there was a long deliberation obviously, and the horse was taken down, disqualified, and moved down. country house, probably wasn't the best horse in the race, moves up to first place and wins the kentucky derby. >> what was it about 20 minutes or so they went looking at the tapes? how unusual is that, that you get stewards -- i know there's nfl replay or baseball or nba, but in horse racing? >> yes. you do have claims of foul on occasion in horse racing. certainly not unheard of by any stretch but a 21:57 review is a really long time. it took a long time for them to come to that decision and clearly, look, nobody wanted to decide the kentucky derby this way, alex, and so i think they were just having to really weigh

are we going to really do this? are we going to take down the kentucky derby winner and put up a new one. >> the president is tweeting saying it's the era of political correctness and that overturned the race and doesn't seem to be pleased about it at all. did the condition of the track, did that, pat, play any role in how this race was won? the fact that horse was veering out of his lane, would that have happened on a dry track as easily? >> i think, yes, it probably would have. here is the thing. you hear a lot of trainers talk about this and jockeys talk about it. the kentucky derby sun like any other race. it's 150,000 people there, and when those horses start coming off the far turn, they run into what's commonly called a wall of noise. 150,000 people cheering and going crazy and it can spook them and this is a high-strung horse. i was back at jason service, the trainer's barn last wednesday and he said this horse has a bit of a temper, he's high strung.

he will act up and i think that's what happened. he heard that wall of noise and he basically moved himself out. i don't think it was the jockey's faumjocke jockey's fault. the horse did it to himself. >> pat, thank you for explaining. what an incredible race that was and we needed that explanation from you. close call, what investigators think might have caused a plane to slide into jacksonville river and why crews still can't get into parts of that aircraft. to kill 99.99% of odor causing bacteria. polident. clean. fresh. and confident.

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new details on the plane that slid off a florida runway. passengers are speaking out about their ordeal, when miami air international flight 293 ended up in the st. john's river in jacksonville, friday night. one person telling the "new york times" the plane was bouncing up and down, going from swid ide t side, things falling from the overhe overheads. bruce, welcome to you. you're leading the investigation in jacksonville. what is the latest? do you have any suspicions that you think are going to pan out as to what caused this? >> it's fairly early in the investigation process here, alex. i think the best news we have at this point is that we have recovered the flight data recorder out of the back of the aircraft, and that is in our lab in washington, d.c. right now, being analyzed, and our hope is that in the very near future, it could be as early as today, we'll have at least some

preliminary information that we'll be able to share, and the flight data recorder will give us a phenomenal amount of information, over a thousand parameters that are collected on that, so that will give us the touchdown speed, the altitude of the aircraft just prior to, all of the control inputs, what the engines are doing, and spoiler position and that kind of thing. >> how about cockpit voice recorder, that has yet to be recovered? >> the cockpit voice recorder is unfortunately underwater and we are not going to be able to get to that until the aircraft is recovered. >> okay. what about the navy runway not grooved but it was sloped. talk about the importance of this. z>> the sloping as on highways

roads are crowned and the same applies to runways. i'm not familiar exactly about what the navy's requirements are, but the runway was built to certain specification. not all runways used by commercial aircraft not a military basis, some of those are not grooved either. we've discovered over the years that grooving runways does improve drainage, but that doesn't necessarily mean that that was a major factor, and we know there was a thunderstorm in the area, but we don't know how much rain had fallen or whether the runway was flooded. that will all come out in due course. >> okay, bruce, we will be following the investigation. i know you're leading it up. thanks for spending time with me. i appreciate it. >> thanks. what the secretary of state just said about election interference, you may find incredibly hard to believe. that's next.

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hi, ted danson, i'm here for my appointment no matter who you are, it's important to go for an annual check-up, and when you do remember to be open and honest with your doctor about how you're feeling. because how you're doing emotionally, affects your physical health - and vice versa mr. danson, would you mind? i love doing this thanks, but i just need you to fill out the medical history. that's embarrassing go in for your annual check-up, and check in physically and emotionally cigna. together all the way. do i have to do the age part? okay when you rent from national... it's kind of like playing your own version of best ball. because here, you can choose any car in the aisle,

even if it's a better car class than the one you reserved. so no matter what, you're guaranteed to have a perfect drive. [laughter] (vo) go national. go like a pro. see what i did there? internet that puts alright boys, time to eat. that handles anything. [ crowd cheering ] that protects what's important. and reaches everywhere. this is beyond wifi. this is xfi. we have worked diligently to protect america's election system, something i wish the previous administration had done more effectively. the president's done more on election interference than any previous president. we're very proud of what we accomplished there. >> huh.

secretary of state mike pompeo after criticism of the president's call with vladimir putin. the white house saying they agreed there was no collusion, but the subject of election meddling was not raised at all. let's bring in jonathan altar, columnist for "the daily beast" and msnbc political analyst. kurt bardella and susan del perc percio, msnbc political analyst. susan, what is the reality when it comes to potential election interference? are we better off or worse off than we were in 2016? >> i think the mueller report as well as president trump's own security people are saying we are more, we are vulnerable. we continue to be vulnerable and we may be vulnerable by more entities than just russia. we hear more and more about china looking to interfere with our elections and i just wish that, for a moment, when the president talks about our great military, which they are, he remembers what they're there to

do, which is protect our freedoms, our democracy. so he should start by doing it at home, and it really does concern me that we may see some big, you know, interference in the upcoming election. >> okay, jonathan, your take on pompeo and what he said. >> look, the president just talked to vladimir putin for, what, an hour and 30 minutes, and pompeo said afterward they did not have time to talk about russia's attack on our democracy in 2016. they didn't have time to have the president say, look, we might agree that this mueller report didn't amount to anything, but there were more than 30 of your people, 30 russians indicted, more than 250 contacts between russians and people in the campaign. they made a serious attempt to interfere in our election, and it was up to him as our president and commander in chief to fire a shot across putin's

bow and say, do not do this again, as barack obama said the last time, knock it off. we're not going to have this happen in our elections. he didn't do it. >> and having not done that, former fbi official said that the president's call with putin effectively gave russia a green light to meddle in our election again. compare that to what secretary pompeo said. what are your thoughts on this? >> you know, we've seen time and again this president refuse to even acknowledge the legitimate intelligence findings that russia interfered in our election. standing next to vladimir putin, he's refused to believe our own intelligence. he has time and again chosen foreign adversarial dictators over the very people he's appointed, the very people that work for us, the very people who put their lives on the line every single day to try to keep our democracy safe. now after the mueller report and the way he's disparaged it, all of it, calling it fake, calling it a hoax, he's given the green light to russia saying, hey, whatever you did last time, you can do that times a hundred now. if we thought it was bad last time, imagine how much more problematic it's going to be

with a president who's acquiesce sent in this with a republican party who doesn't seem to want to do anything about this either. they have a complete green light and we know they haven't stopped doing what they were trying to do. they haven't tried to undo the hacking of our election systems, looking at rules, going into local and county and state election offices. it's only going to be accelerated. >> guys, i want to ask you about speaker nancy pelosi, who's told "the new york times" she's worried that the president could challenge the legitimacy of a democratic victory in 2020. we have to inoculate against that, be prepared for that. ms. pelosi sadiscussed trump wod not give up power if he lost the election by a slim margin next year. >> let's face it, she's doing it based on trump's history. he was ready to call 2016 a rigged election if he didn't win. so of course it's a potential. and in that story, i think that speaker pelosi was also looking

to say to democrats, we have to get a huge turnout and keep our numbers in the house strong and win by huge margins not just in the total tallies but in the electoral college as well, which is really her trying to center the party. there's a little twofold there. >> do you agree, curt? is that what's motivating pelosi to raise these concerns right now? >> i think pelosi realizes the single best way to ensure that donald trump doesn't return to office is with complete and clear, decisive victory across popular vote, electoral college, keeping the house majority for democrats, making inroads in the senate a complete wipe youout o trump is the only way this is going to work. we saw in 2016, he started talking about the rigged election. he even had the investigation looking at illegal immigrant voting, which turned out there was no evidence to support that at all. he had to close that voter commission he started to look into it. so we see the signs every day of a person who thinks more like a

dictator than someone who's been freely elected in a democratic process. >> so politically speaking, jonathan, the speaker's jat indust -- strategy is to, quote, own the center left, own the mainstream. so what's the implication of that for progressive candidates? >> well, they can be out there with their progressive ideas, but they need to abide by a version of what ronald reagan and the republican primaries in 1980 called the 11th commandment. don't speak ill, in his case, of another republican. they have to not trash each other in these primaries, not apply purity tests. oh, you're not progress give enough because you're not for, you know, medicare for all. you're just for public option. not try to slime people for not toeing a certain line. >> is that going to happen, jonathan? i mean, come on. look at bernie sanders, the way he's going after joe biden. >> bernie sanders is going to do that. so not to put too fine a point on it, for the democrats to win,

they have to have elizabeth warren or somebody else knock bernie out early. what's going to happen is if bernie stays in for a long time, he continues to have a lot of support, or if he were to win the nomination, you lose women in the suburbs who are the swing voters in all these elections nowadays. they don't vote for trump. they just stay home because they're not socialists. they're not going to vote for a socialist. so you know, nominating bernie is equivalent to losing the election. but also, just letting bernie have too much influence in the democratic primaries could cost the democrats the election. it's going to be very important for them to not let bernie buffalo the other democrats and to kind of essentially send a message that they're going to run, as pelosi says, as a center left, not a far left party. >> you agree with that, curt? >> a hundred percent. the reality is the places where this election is going to be decided, there's no way they're going to vote for a socialist. there's no way they're going to

vote for someone who is overtly liberal. they want a center left candidate. in the midterm elections, democrats did overwhelmingly great in so many places where they previously weren't as competitive. the only way you're going to keep that coalition together and win those seats and win those votes is if you have a centrist democrat, someone like a joe biden. >> you can be overtly liberal. don't say these progressives and very liberal candidates can't win. they can. it's just you can't win as a socialist. bernie is not even a democrat. >> last word to you, susan. >> you're talking about 21 fierce political competitors. so to think that they're all going to be in check, i could see if it was maybe a smaller field. these folks are going to be fighting for their political survival, and i think you're going to see them throw more than a few punches. >> they're not going to be that nasty this time. >> okay. here's hoping. jonathan, curt, susan, thank you all so much. good to see you. a potential collision of events on capitol hill tomorrow that could shake up washington and namely the white house.

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about this? >> reporter: well, alex, these are absolutely horrific pictures. every traveler's worst nightmare. you can see the flames coming from the back end of the jet. we think there were about 78 people on board based on local media reports from russia. nbc news hasn't been able to independently confirm that. there's still a lot we don't know. we don't know what caused the fire. we don't know whether anyone was injured. there's conflicting information at this point. some reports say there were five injured. one russian media outlet is saying one person is injured. we're still chasing the facts for you. but looking at those pictures, you got to wonder that it wasn't worse. it just looks so scary, alex. >> yeah, sarah, so at this point we think there are survivors. as i look at this right now from this vantage point, it looks like the entire plane is engulfed in flames. you would have to have, you know, the fire department there immediately trying to, you know, extinguish those flames to get

anybody out of there. nobody could get out of that plane with those flames like that. >> reporter: well, we don't know at what point this footage was taken. we don't know if it was after everyone was evacuated. but a plane with 78 or 80 people, that was probably a regional jet. it landed in an emergency landing in northern moscow. it was believed to be coming from another russian city. we're going to have to wait and see until we can get some official confirmation to learn more about who was on board and what caused these horrific flames on the runway, alex. >> i'll tell you, i've got chills looking at this. as soon as you get information, come on back to us and we'll update this story. again, that's a russian plane. nbc's sarah harman following this overseas. also developing this hour, a source with the house judiciary committee is telling nbc has a date has not been set yet for special counsel robert mueller to testify.

we know judiciary chairman nadler said he has been looking at may 15 as a possible day or at least before the end of the month. meanwhile, the attorney general faces a deadline tomorrow to respond to an ultimatum to release the full, unredacted mueller report. republicans in the white house are defending bill barr. >> many of my democratic friends thought that mueller was going to indict the president. they don't know what to do, so they're attacking bill barr. >> the democrats are scared. frankly, i think when we're talking about obstruction of justice, the real obstruction of justice is what democrats are trying to do to the attorney general. >> but some democrats are calling for the attorney general to recuse himself from the 14 criminal referrals that the special counsel sent to other prosecutors. >> mr. barr should not be a hindrance or raise any questions about whether this is going to be an investigation and a prosecution with total integrity. he has raised that question because of his characterization of mueller testimony. >> also happening tomorrow,

treasury secretary steven mnuchin says he'll announce whether he's releasing the president's tax returns. plus, the president's former attorney, michael cohen, begins his prison sentence. then on tuesday, don mcgahn, a star witness on obstruction, is due to provide documents. all of this as the white house as the president seek to block multiple subpoenas and requests from democrats in congress. just a short while ago, i spoke with democratic representative steve cohen. >> this president loves power, and he will do anything to maintain it. if we can't impeach him, because i don't think the senate would impeach him if he shot the person on fifth avenue, we could censure him. a censure in the house we can do without the senate, would at least have us go on record as admonishing him for illegal conduct. >> meanwhile, a new poll shows the public remains divided over the outcome of robert mueller's investigation. 60% of americans say the president has been dishonest in the russia investigation. only about a third believe the mueller report clears the president of wrongdoing.

the president's job approval, though, has not changed a lot. stands at 46%, and nearly half of americans surveyed oppose impeachment, while the other half wants immediate impeachment hearings or at least investigations. meanwhile, as the white house touts that unemployment is at its lowest since 1969, presidential candidates say economic inequality persists. >> i love that trump is taking credit for a recovery that started under obama. we've got to make sure that this is a shared recovery because right now it definitely is not. >> i do not believe that trump's massive tax breaks for billionaires is the cause of the good economy. >> there are people out there that are not sharing in this economic prosperity. >> they can't afford a middle class lifestyle. and donald trump has done nothing to help with that. >> one more time we go to the white house. it's been a long day for you, my friend, but i'm glad you're here. also a long day for the white house. it's riding on this wave of economic strength, but it's also

gearing up for a major confrontation with congress. >> reporter: alex, seems like we say this every sunday afternoon, but it's hard to keep up with everything that's been happening between the president's tweets and developments elsewhere. really like drinking from a fire hose, but you're right. we're heading towards some sort of constitutional face-off here, maybe a little early to call it a constitutional crisis, but it's heading in that direction. simply because the house of representatives wants documents. they want witnesses for the myriad investigations they're doing of the trump administration. the president ees's taxes, they refusing to hand that over, even though it's written in a law that's almost a hundred years old that the ways and means committee chairman has a right to see those. the security clearance process around jared kushner, the president's aide and son-in-law, getting a high-level security clearance, stonewalling on that as well. and this 9:00 a.m. deadline tomorrow from the house judiciary committee, jerry nadler, the chairman there, the democrat, he wants the full and

unredacted mueller report, or he's threatening to hold the attorney general, bill barr n contempt of congress. republicans are saying this is overreach. they think democrats are going too far, notwithstanding their long history of investigating the obama administration when they were in the majority of such things as fast and furious and the benghazi situation. but senator john kennedy always well spoken, always entertaining, had this to say. here's his take on the democratic investigation. i'm sorry, alex. we don't have that sound right now. but this is basically the situation now come 9:00 a.m. tomorrow. alex, there are even some democratic members of congress by the end of last week who were talking about jail time for officials in the administration if they don't comply with these subpoenas and document requests. >> yeah, can you even imagine? give me the latest on this mark morgan. he's now going to be part of the administration. the president announcing on twitter today. >> reporter: right. you remember it was april 5th,

exactly a month ago, the president withdrew his previous nominee, the acting head over at i.c.e., to be the nominee. he said he wants to go in a tougher direction. a new tweet, you see it there. the president has a new nominee. i'm pleased to inform all those that believe in a strong, found, and fair immigration policy that mark morgan will be joining the trump administration as the head of our hard working men and women of i.c.e. morgan was head of border patrol in the last six months of the obama administration. he lost his job. at the time he said he was forced out. since then, he's publicly backed the president's push for the border wall with mexico. lo and behold, here's mark morgan. the president will formally nominate him to head i.c.e. again, former head of the border patrol. this comes after a period of a lot of upheaval at the department of homeland security. of course, two days after the president withdrew that first nomination, the secretary of homeland security was forced out. so a lot of changes there coming from the president on the

homeland security front. alex? >> all right. thank you for the latest on all of that, mike. joining me now, california representative ted lieu. he's a member of the house judiciary and foreign affairs committee. we're always glad to see you here. thank you for joining me. >> thank you. >> there's a source telling nbc news that your committee has begun direct conversations with mueller's team for his testimony. first of all, do you have a date for this testimony? and i'm curious about the terms your committee is trying to iron out. >> thank you, alex, for your question. it is correct. we are in negotiations with special counsel robert mueller for him to come testify before the house judiciary committee. we don't have a firm date yet, but we hope that'll happen this month. >> okay. how about terms? anything special we need to know? and do you refute the may 15th date that has been put out there by a member of the committee, who said he believed it was that day? or is that just a working date

possible? >> i don't refute it. it's just not firm yet. until something is firm, we don't want to set out there saying anything. i want to note that it's important to hear from robert mueller because attorney general bill barr completely mischaracterized his report. we know that because robert mueller wrote a letter to attorney general saying essentially that he mischaracterized his report. that's why it's so important to have bob mueller come in and tell the american people what his report actually says. >> okay. any terms that would have to be in place? any negotiation back and forth on that? >> that i do not know. but robert mueller, unlike bill barr, i do not expect to be a hostile witness. i expect that he's going to want to tell the truth to the american people. so i'd be happy to accommodate what robert mueller would want. >> picking up on the word hostile, do you expect the administration to put up a fight over any of this? >> oh, absolutely. we already have seen them do this. they essentially have denied every congressional request. this sort of maximum denial is now unifying democrats in congress. i think it's also unifying the

american people. the framers set up our constitution as co-equal branches of government under the necessary and proper clauses of the constitution, congress has a right to conduct oversight investigations. the administration simply can't do this. if they're going to do this, we're going to use all the tools at our disposal. we're going to take them to court and likely win on all the requests we have. >> okay. your committee chair, jerry nadler, is threatening to hold the attorney general in contempt if he does not respond by tomorrow to the final counteroffer for the unredacted mueller report, all of its underlying documents as well. what happens if the department of justice does not respond by tomorrow morning? what happens? might he be jailed? do you push for him to resign or be impeached? what happens? >> so let me walk you through the process. there was a subpoena that the house judiciary committee put out to get the unredacted mueller report and all its underlying evidence. by the way, republicans voted with democrats 420-0 on the

house floor to get the entire report. bill barr did not go along with that request. the deadline was this past wednesday. we've now had a reasonable counteroffer, gave him until this monday to provide the materials. if he doesn't, then the plan is to go to contempt proceedings. the house judiciary committee has to take a vote on it. if we vote to hold him in contempt, that goes to the house floor. then the house can vote him into contempt. once that happens, it triggers two things. it allows house counsel to litigate this issue in court. and second, congress has an inherent contempt powers. we can start levering fines on bill barr without having to go to court. >> so following the no-show to your committee, you told reporters that attorney general barr is now one of the most dangerous men in washington, d.c. why do you think that? >> two reasons. not only did he mislead the american people when he was told by robert mueller he was misleading the american people, he doubled down and continued to

lie to congress and the american people. so he's now the top law enforcement officer in america. he is misleading the american people. he is enabling donald trump to basically attack the rule of law. and at the same time, he's also suing to eliminate health care for millions of americans right now in court. that makes him a very dangerous man. >> house speaker nancy pelosi was asked if he believes barr committed a crime. here's what she said. >> he lied to congress. he lied to congress. if anybody else did that, it would be considered a crime. nobody is above the law. >> all right. so like minded between the two of you. however, doj spokeswoman kerri kupec responded saying, the baseless attack on the attorney general is reckless, irresponsible, and false. so your take on this is what, that he indeed committed a crime? >> well, the facts are very clear. he gets a letter from robert mueller essentially saying he mischaracterized the mueller report, and then representative

charlie crist questions bill barr under oath in a congressional hearing and asks bill barr if there were any concerns by the special counsel's office about bill barr's characterization of the report. bill barr says no. that is a lie. so he can call it what you want, but it is a lie. if you lie under oath to congress, that would be perjury. >> it's my understanding it was explained by the doj spokesperson here that he's splitting hairs. he was saying, when i was responding, i was responding to what the investigators had been saying, what he was privy to, as opposed to what robert mueller was saying. there's a lot of us that are going to go, oh, come on. it seems like he's splitting hairs there. but if that's true, does bill barr have cover? >> not at all. robert mueller is the head investigator. so bill barr was lying to the american people. he was lying to representative charlie crist. when you do that, that looks just like perjury. so that's one reason that

representative kathleen rice and i have written a letter to both the d.c. and virginia state bars to investigate bill barr for perjury and misconduct. they actually have the power to revoke his bar license if they determine that's the case. >> okay. so the president is now responding as well to the subpoena that was issued by your committee to former white house counsel don mcgahn. take a listen to him. >> i've had him testifying already for 30 hours. i don't think i can let him and tell everybody else you can't, especially him because he was a counsel. they've testified for many hours, all of them. >> so as far as you're concerned, it's done. so is it done? >> i would say it's done. we've been through this. nobody has ever done what. i've done. i've given total transparency. it's never happened before like this. >> yeah, but i'm curious to your reaction to that. if he gave license to don mcgahn to testify before, and that's while he was part of the white house, which he is no longer, he can't claim executive privilege,

can he, to try to keep him from testifying this time, right? once he said, go ahead and testify, he can testify again. >> that's absolutely correct. the president has no legal case. and you need to ask, what is he trying to hide? why doesn't he want don mcgahn to testify in front of the american people? it's very important because with the redacted mueller report, we already know the president ordered don mcgahn to fire robert mueller. that looks like obstruction of justice. and we need to see if, in fact, that happened. the house judiciary committee needs to investigate this issue. that's why we need don mcgahn to testify. >> what specifically do you want to ask him, if he gets in front of your committee? >> we expect to ask don mcgahn, one, did the president ask you to fire robert mueller? second, what did you think of that request? and third, what's the reason you didn't execute it? if you look at the obstruction of justice statute, however, it doesn't require don mcgahn to have actually executed that order. if donald trump merely endeavored to obstruct justice, that is a violation of the law.

>> california representative ted lieu, always good to get your take on things. thank you for joining me. >> thank you, alex. the china trade situation just got more intense. what the president is tweeting and why it could be a big deal tomorrow. that's next. that's next. -keep. i have a system. -keith used to be great to road-trip with. but since he bought his house... are you going 45? -uh, yes. 55 is a suggestion. -...it's kind of like driving with his dad. -what a sign, huh? terry, can you take a selfie of me? -take a selfie of you? -yeah. can you make it look like i'm holding it? -he did show us how to bundle home and auto at progressive.com and save a bunch of money. -oh, a plaque. "he later navigated northward, leaving... progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents. but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us.

presidential contenders out on the trail today. vice president joe biden making his first campaign appearance in south carolina this weekend while three other candidates are in iowa, including beto o'rourke.

he talked to voters about climate change, equal rights, and criminal justice. a new nbc poll shows big sl enthusiasm for gooiden. it's up at 70%. that's followed by senator sanders, warren, and harris. for the latest on biden, let's head to columbia, south carolina. a big welcome to you. talk about this visit. what's going on? >> reporter: yeah, alex. i think the biden team is feeling like they did everything they set out to do on this first trip to south carolina since announcing his candidacy a little over a week ago. in south carolina, it's all about the african-american vote. that's such a critical factor in these southern states that kick off with south carolina next year. you saw the vice president this morning. he started his day at church. he was at the brookland baptist church, where the pastor said he was even more well received than some of the other candidates who have dropped by. yesterday at a rally, the former vice president mentioned the former president a number of

times, reference to jim crow sneaking back in. but the aim of the game here for the former vice president at this point of this campaign is staying above the fray. we heard him last night at a fundraiser talking about the former -- talking about president trump, excuse me. a supporter asked him if he had a anymore make nickname for the. he said, i'm inclined to give him so many nicknames. let's start with clown. clown was the one he gave him. as it remits to some of his democratic rivals, the former vice president is staying above the fray, choosing no the to engage. let's listen to what he told our affiliate last night in an interview. >> i'm not going to speak ill of any other democrat in this campaign. that's not useful. the last thing the democratic party has to do is get in a big fight. that only benefits donald trump. >> reporter: so alex, the former vice president done in south carolina. he's on his way to las vegas. he'll continue his early state swing as well into california before winding up in new hampshire next week. >> i tell you, he makes a good point about that democratic

infighting. mike, thank you so much from columbia, south carolina. new today, growing demand for special counsel mueller to testify before congress. >> we want mcgahn to testify so the american public can hear the straight testimony. we want mueller to testify. hopefully he'll come on the 15th, but nothing is confirmed. i think we should ask jeff sessions to come in too. >> joining me now, jeff mason, white house correspondent for reuters. being welcome to you both. good to see you. jeff, you first here. as the president last said, he's not going to stand in the way of mueller testifying. does the white house still stand by that? >> well, i mean, as recent as just a few days ago, i think kellyanne conway said if mueller wants to testify, he should testify. at this point, the white house hasn't changed its tune on that. on the other hand, we've seen the white house sort of put up roadblocks or the president indicate he does not want further testimony from members of his own administration and

that he feels that this investigation went on long enough. he feels that it exonerated him despite some of the details in the report that do not suggest that. and he's ready to cut it off. so whether or not that might impact mueller, we'll have to wait and see. at this point, they haven't changed their tune. i think the question will be whether or not the committee is able to arrange a date with the special counsel and make it happen. >> what kind of insight could mueller's testimony provide that we don't already know from the released report, albeit redacted? >> his testimony could really have a huge impact. arguably, it could go either way. he could come before the committee and say, there's nothing to see here, everything you have in the report is what you have. that would be a blow to the democratic investigation. >> but is that likely because of the fact he responded to how bill barr characterized everything, and he seemed to be in direct confrontation with

that. >> certainly. i think there's a very high likelihood that he's coming to say something. i think we saw this with james comey as well. his sort of predecessor, successor at the fbi. these are very skilled lawyers who are very much in control of everything they say. you don't put something in writing you don't fully intend to be read by someone. you don't say something or decide to go before congress and say something if you don't have a very clear aim that you are hoping to accomplish with that. so to your point, i was going to say, it could go that way, but i think there could be the potential for fireworks here and democrats could ask about things that didn't end up in the report, whether he followed up on any financial issues with the president, whether he perhaps interviewed witnesses about things that didn't end up in the report. it really opens up the aperture of what democrats could be going after in their investigations down the road. >> okay. switching gears here, jeff, i want to ask you about the

president's latest tweet on china, announcing that on friday the tariffs on $200 billion of chinese imports are going to increase to 25% from 10%. then another $325 billion in goods will shortly be subject to tariffs. what's behind this move, jeff? >> well, that's a great question. for context, the president's team has been negotiating with chinese negotiators for several months now over a big trade deal. the tariffs that have sort of been the background of that were the president's way of enforcing or putting pressure on the chinese to come to the table and to make some massive changes in how it does business with the united states. several weeks ago, the president made a decision not to increase tariffs because he said that negotiations were going well. last week the team was in beijing doing further negotiations. this week, in a few days, the chinese were expected to be in washington for another round. this is a dramatic escalation of pressure from the united states.

he's now suggesting that the negotiations are not moving quickly enough and saying that tariffs are going to go up dramatically on $200 billion worth of goods and potentially 325 more. that suggests to me, and i think others who are watching this deal and reporting on it very closely, that the progress that some administration officials have been talking about was not much progress at all, or certainly not as far as the president wants it to be. the market has been extremely sensitive to news about trade. so i suspect this will be an impact on stocks and markets tomorrow. >> guys, unfortunately, a little brevity with regard to this particular conversation. thank you. good to see you both. the first u.s. mayor to try a universal basic income for a city, he's explaining how it's working and whether it's an idea that could go national. it's an a that could go national

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up to $500 a month. >> if you imagine everyone in the country getting a thousand dollars a month, $12,000 a year, kids are healthier and stronger and have a better chance to learn, graduation rates up, mental health improves, relationships improve, domestic violence goes down, hospital visits go down. >> you heard it there. universal basic income quickly becoming the buzz among 2020 democrats. andrew yang, of course, has made it the centerpiece of his campaign. joining me now, michael tubbs, mayor of stockton, california. he's launched his version of universal basic income, first in the nation to offer it as a city. michael, a big welcome to you. you started it in february. the result of a million-dollar seed grant to give 130 people $500 a month. how is it going? what's the reaction? what are you seeing? >> it's been fascinating how something as small as $500 a month is making a meaningful difference in people's lives. anecdotally, i've heard from folks that $500 is enough for

them to pay for car issues so they have more reliable transportation to get to work. that $500 has been enough for them to pay off credit card debt. that $500 a month has been enough for them to make sure their lights are on. i think the tragedy, alex, is the fact these folks were selected at random. there's probably 300,000 other people in my city who could use something like $500 a month not as a handout but a real economic flora to reward the ways they're working and contributing to our society. >> despite all of these great details and ways it's working, what do you say to critics who say once this seed money runs out, mayor, it's just going to be another entitlement program? >> well, i think if you look at the history of this country, there are a lot of things that a hundred years ago, 200 years ago, 300 years ago were seen as crazy ideas or radical ideas or bold ideas. things like social security, things like weekends and a five-day workweek, things like child labor laws. all these massive kind of social entitlement programs were once considered too crazy and too radical. they're actually perfect for the

times. now when you look at the fact that one in two americans can't afford one $500 emergency, you look at people working two or three jobs and still can't pay rent, people who are working who are now homeless. the problem demands bold solutions. i think a guaranteed is one of many we should consider. >> yeah, sometimes you hear people talk about things and you think, i wonder what their personal relationship is to it. you have an extraordinary one. i know, sir, that you grew up -- your father was incarcerated. you're in a very unique position to relate to the grinding reality of poverty. but even more so, your remarkable rise, you got two degrees from stanford. there's an hbo documentary, right, that's going to talk about your life. talk about kind of your position and how you bring such an extraordinary perspective to this program. >> well, absolutely. i think particularly for all the work we're doing in stockton,

gun violence prevention, focusing on ensuring every kid has a scholarship when they graduate, and now this basic income problem, it all stems from a very personal place. my father is still incarcerated. my mother had me as a high schooler. i remember growing up and seeing how hard she worked. two, three jobs, exhausted all the time. i never saw her waiting around for somebody to do something for her. i saw her working hard despite poverty. i realized not just her but the people i grew up with, the community that raised me, a lot of them were full of working-class people who aren't lazy, who aren't bad, but are working incredibly hard in an economy that's not working for them. so the basic income program comes from that lived experience but also from understanding the needs of my constituents, folks who immigrated from around the world to come to america to work incredibly hard and search for a better life, and they're working, contributing, and just a real understanding that the problem with poverty or the economic insecurity isn't the

people. it's the structure, that people are smart, resilient, and hard working when provided the proper opportunity they can really contribute even more to our society. >> yeah, you are living that for sure. your mom is so proud of you. i want to say more props to you. best of luck. i'm loving following this program. good luck. >> thank you. we're following breaking news from moscow. that's where a jetliner has crash landed in flames. one person has reportedly been killed. we'll bring you more in just a bit. we'll get our facts and figures. stay with us. res. stay with us look limu. a civilian buying a new car. let's go. limu's right. liberty mutual can save you money by customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh... yeah, i've been a customer for years. huh... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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many of my democratic friends thought that mueller was going to indict the president. and so the mueller report was kind of like a hair on their biscuit. now they don't know what to do, so they're attacking bill barr. my feeling about it is it's time to move on. >> a hair on a biscuit? okay. anyway, republican senator john kennedy ahead of tomorrow's final deadline set by the house judiciary chairman jerry nadler. he plans to initiate contempt proceedings against attorney general bill barr if he does not comply. let's bring in democratic strategist do strategist don calloway, and former pennsylvania governor ed rendell. i don't know, guys. that hair on a biscuit thing. i was like, what? >> that was disgusting. >> it is.

so beyond that, please comment on the senator's remarks there. is it possible that that's how this battle with bill barr looks to people at home? should democrats be picking their battles and just stay focused on the president? >> first of all, i could listen to john kennedy all day, and i don't agree with anything he says politically. >> he's very intentertaining. >> he's one of the great characters in washington, d.c. but in this very folksy way, he's spinning the new yarn of the republican talk, which is you didn't indict the president, so let's attack barr, as though democrats consistently need someone to attack. that's not really the case. the reality is that we're criticizing attorney general barr's realistic behavior. from day one, even from the point where he was being confirmed, we saw that he was here to serve this president's needs. he's not here to serve as the people's lawyer, as the american people's lawyer and as the defender of the department of justice. he's here specifically to serve the president. and i think as we said three weeks ago on your program, alex, attorney general barr has put

himself in a position where realistically, he should be the one impeached alongside this president. >> so amy, gauge for me the level of concern by republicans by the trump administration's disregard of subpoenas. there's got to be some that are concerned about this. >> well, sure, there are. we have to go back in history. you know, we had somebody who was already held in contempt. that was former attorney general eric holder, who unfortunately set the unfortunate precedent that if you don't follow through and if you're held in contempt, nothing is going to happen to you. so why bother? is it the right thing to do? no, but that's where we're at unfortunately. >> so then governor, these contempt proceedings against barr, they could start tomorrow, but where's the progress on all the kitchen table issues? can democrats walk and chew gum at the same time like they've been claiming? >> i think they can, but the

important thing that we're forgetting here is what's the underlying purpose for subpoenaing mr. barr? that is to get the mueller report out in front of the people. and the american people are overwhelmingly in favor of getting the full mueller report out and to the public. >> in addition to unanimously in the house, by the way, too. every single member of the house said we want the full, unredacted report. >> absolutely, absolutely. >> so as we look ahead to 2020, don, i want to do that with you. there's this new piece in "the new york times" which points out how joe biden is taking on donald trump while also extending an olive branch to some republicans. some of his fellow opponents are not agreeing with his approach. do the democrats, don, want a bipartisan deal maker, door they want a partisan warrior? >> we want a president who's not donald trump. so i think that the good thing about 2020, this rigorous, robust primary process, is you'll see someone -- whoever

emerges, you will not see the partisanship we saw in '08 where the hillary supporters didn't want to support obama, where the bernie supporters didn't want to support hillary. biden appears to be the leader right now. mayor pete is having a great run. whoever it is, there will be somebody, a strong segment of the democratic party has a real issue with. whoever it is will be better than this current guy who's in the white house right now. so joe biden has got the spark right now, but he's not going to have the unanimous support of all of the party. it's a broad and diverse tint. whoever our nominee is will have unified support of the party. >> are you sure about that, don? right now there are those taking aim at others within the party. i mean, bernie sanders in particular to joe biden. that's sanders' style. >> it's a rigorous contest. when you have 20 qualified and capable and competent folks, you know, there are going to be some elbows thrown. i really think it's, as cory

booker calls it, a healthy sibling rivalry. and people should -- this is what we should want. people should have to account for their record. and what i've liked about this process so far, first of all props to you for having some of the lesser known candidates on every week. that's important to the process. what i really appreciate about this process is it's not about personality, but folks are getting attacked based upon their real substantive records. so i'm excited about it. >> what about the president, for his part, seems to have his attention on biden. is this the proof that the vice president is doing something right? is he the person that you believe donald trump fears the most that he comes up against for 2020? >> well, he's said it himself. he's said he believes it's either biden or bernie that's going to come out on top. yes, i do. i agree with don wholeheartedly that if the democrats are going to have any decent possibility of trying to replace the president with their nominee, they're definitely going to have

to come together. there will be some soft republicans and some independents. now, he says it's not a campaign on personality. i disagree because i think some of those soft republicans and independents, as great as his policies have been and as successful as the economy has been, personality wise, there's still some people who aren't as comfortable with him. i think that's where they have wiggle room to play with. >> what about you, governor, with regard to the news nbc news/"wall street journal" poll, which compares the enthusiasm and reservations voters have. there are those who say they're very uncomfortable with the candidate, 49% feeling this way about the president. just 24% feeling the same about joe biden. talk about the significance of those numbers. >> well, i think don is right. the democrats are going to come out to vote this time regardless of who the nominee is. if it was me, if it was you, they're coming out to vote. >> they're not coming out for me, but anyway. >> they're coming out to vote

against donald trump. and there's no question in my mind about that. i think joe biden has played it perfectly. one, he's taken on trump. our democrats want to see someone who's got the cohjones o take on trump. at the same time, he talks about being a deal maker that can get things done. the nation yearns -- 70% of the nation yearns for washington to get things done. so if biden is having it both ways, he's doing a very good job. but it's early. >> okay. last word to you, amy. i want to back up on what you said with regard to these numbers again. 49% feeling this way about the president. they're very uncomfortable with him as a candidate versus 24% for joe biden. is this part of what you were referencing before, the personality of this president that works against him? >> absolutely. i mean, there are people who still feel a little uncomfortable with the way he presents himself and the way he, you know, is so involved on

social media and with his choice of words. but it's very hard to find people who dispute the success of his policies. so you know, what are you willing to do? you willing to go for somebody who can manipulate you with a smile and not come through in the end with policies, or are you willing to go with somebody who's a little more rough around the edges and actually gets the job done? >> i'm telling you -- >> if i can just interject quickly. in the spirit of bipartisanship, i'm wearing a trump tie today. >> wow. >> made in china. >> that's impressive. >> made in china. >> oh, man. don is just shaking his head. listen, you guys, good to see all three of you. have a great sunday. thank you so much. meantime, the president's greatest immigration fail, the results of a new investigative report next. report next.

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five months you've been doing a deep dive. you've been researching the trump administration's policies for a major data analysis piece. it comes out tomorrow. can you give us an overview of what you have discovered? >> right. so over the past five months we've been analyzing everything the trump administration has tried to do since trump has taken office. so we broke it down to 13 immigration issues, everything stemming from him trying to end the daca program this 2017 to him obtaining funding for his long promised border wall to even him trying to revoke work authorization for h-4 visa holders. what we found out of the 13 immigration issues he's only really accomplished foyer things and that includes him lowering the refugee admissions cap, which is at its lowest level in u.s. history right now, him obtaining the funding he wanted for the border wall, him implementing a travel ban and

increasing interior immigration enforcement in the country and that includes him increasing administrative arrests and deporting people from the u.s. and it's really important to note that he has been only able to accomplish those four things because he's used the executive authority that's given to him because he's president. those things can be easily undone if the american public decides to elect a democrat in the next upcoming election or in the future. trump hasn't really been able to pass significant immigration reform because his inability to compromise and work with lawmakers across the aisle, democrats and republicans, to really pass legislation that addresses a lot of the problems that he has cited within the immigration system. >> is part of it also because of his obsession with building a wall? that was his signature platform. yes, all these different 13 entities you're talking about absolutely legit. that said, he kept talking about and stoking up the crowds on the

campaign trail and since about building a wall, building a wall, building a wall. is that what it is in part? he seems to be singular focused. >> it's one of the reasons. we've seen time and time again when it comes to daca, that was the first time he tried to end when he came into office. he gave congress a six-month deadline to find a legislative solution to protect dreamers. and every time that republicans or democrats worked in a bipartisan fashion or they tried to introduce legislation amongst themselves to find a solution and come up with something to pass, he would threaten to veto it because it didn't do enough, that he didn't only want protections for dreamers. he wanted to include funding for his border wall, to eliminate the diversity visa program. he started adding on these things and his approach was either i have everything owe take nothing. and so that's really affected his ability to pass meaningful immigration reform. >> and what has been his biggest defeat of these 13 entities that

you researched? which one? >> one of the things he really campaigned on when it came to the 2016 elections was trying to crack down on illegal immigration at the border. he found in recent months there's been a surge of unaccompanied minors and families arriving at the border. one of the biggest defeats is when he tried to implement the zero tolerance policy that resulted in more than 2,700 children removed from their parents. less than seven weeks after implementing the policy, he had to sign an executive order to end the program because of all the backlash he received not only from democrats but also from republicans and from the public. >> absolutely. camila, it's out tomorrow, this huge piece. five months worth of research. it's on roll call, is that where we'll be able to find it? >> online and in the magazine print copy. >> it's important. well done. thank you so much.

>> thank you so much for having me. what michael cohen is saying about michael trump as he heads to prison tomorrow. n tomorrow how will they know i worked hard? i've gotta make stuff harder. ♪ there, that's hard. ♪ the doctor's office might mejust for a shot.o but why go back there when you can stay home with neulasta® onpro?

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you can barely feel. listen to your mom, knuckleheads. hand em over. hand what over? video games, whatever you got. let's go. you can watch videos of people playing video games in the morning. is that everything? i can see who's online. i'm gonna sweep the sofa fort. well, look what i found. take control of your wifi with xfinity xfi. let's roll! now that's simple, easy, awesome. xfinity xfi gives you the speed, coverage and control you need. manage your wifi network from anywhere when you download the xfi app today. we're all out of time on "weekends with alex witt." hey, kendis. >> enjoy the rest of your sunday afternoon. thanks. at msnbc world headquarters we're following this breaking news story of the terrifying scene as a