or a family history of colon cancer. maybe i'll be at your door soon! ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. covered by medicare and most major insurers. ♪ welcome to "kasie dc." i'm kasie hunt we're live every sunday from washington from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern. tonight the president handicaps the kentucky derby. also he says robert mueller shouldn't testify before congress. but as democrats work to find a date for that, that horse may already be out of the barn. plus nancy pelosi tells me the attorney general lied, but can she hold the white house accountable, keep her parties on the rails and not disrupt their

2020 chances at the same time? this week one of the president's lawyers go to prison while another refuses to go to the house. but the judiciary committee is angling for the attorney at the center of it all, robert mueller. for two years, he's been a sphinx like presence. then came a memo from the attorney general, a news conference from the attorney general. hundreds of pages from the report itself, a letter from special counsel to the attorney general, and hours of testimony from the attorney general. and yet, with renewed questions over what bill barr said this week, from many democrats and some republicans, there is a real need to hear more. hill democrats talking to mueller directly instead of going through the department of justice to find a date for him to come to congress, which the attorney general has said he's fine with. >> what about bob mueller, should he be allowed to testify

before this -- >> i've already said publicly i have no objection to him. >> and don mcghan, should he be allowed to testify? >> that's a call for the president to make. >> he's a private citizen at this point as i understand. >> i assume he'd be testifying about privileged matters. >> tonight the president tweeting -- i'm going to skip to the end here, quote, bob mueller should not testify. no redoes for the democrats. despite uncertainly over what robert mueller meant in some sections of his report, there's little movement in how people are thinking about this. in a brand new nbc news/wall street journal report 30% said he was cleared and nearly 40% said he was not. the questions the same from a month ago on impeachment. with nearly half of americans saying there should be hearings and the rest saying yes, keep investigating.

much of the uncertainty coming from the democrats themselves, wondering how hard to push for subpoenas and impeachment with the presidential election looming. here with me tonight, catty kaye, current chair of the ballard media group, raj shah. shawn a thomas and rick tyler. thank you all for being here. catty kaye, i'll start with you. in a broad sense here there was so much drama that unfolded on the hill this week. so much anger, nancy pelosi escalating against bill barr. and yet, it almost feels as though all of it is irrelevant if we don't hear from robert mueller. >> yeah, that's what democrats are going to push for, whatever the president tweets. i think the big question is going to be, even if mueller does testify eventually do those numbers you just showed us,

start to shift because having the mueller report out in public, having bill barr testify has not changed public perception very much either way. even those who the majority say the president lied over the russia investigation still don't want impeachment proceedings. normal in this week was what nancy pelosi said to you, barr lied and therefore is she trying to push for impeachment, satisfy the base of her party that want that, she's trying to walk a fine line between activists and her party that would like to see retribution and those saying this is not helping us get re-ele re-electe re-elected. >> the one blockbuster thing from the week was the letter from the special counsel who said he had a problem with what the attorney general did, and how he released the report. it was enough for lindsey graham to say he wants mueller to answer that question. you're on the outside of the

white house now. but as republicans are thinking about this, does this not give people enormous pause? >> i don't necessarily think so. i think that -- you know, if there's some controversy or complaint with how the attorney general may have handled the release of the letter, the release of the report. the report is out. he promised to release it, promised to provide minimal redactions. the public can now read it, make their own determinations about the president's conduct. >> hasn't every step of the way he seemed to be on the president's side? >> you're talking about the attorney general now? >> yes. >> he's a political appointee, no reason why maybe he shouldn't present information and use his prerogative as he sees fit. but bob mueller, the special counsel, has gotten to interview all witnesses that he sought to -- sorry, to talk to, who were white house employees -- >> except the president. >> but there was no executive privilege claimed, he never made

a legal ask to interview the president of the united states. he was given access to thousands of documents, they issued hundreds of subpoenas, he's written the report and the findings and the substance of it, short of what may be grand jury testimony and other criminal investigations has been released. he's had the substance of what he focussed on for the last two years out in the public for the american people to evaluate. and it seems like those numbers haven't moved because it hasn't been -- >> jump in. >> i think what you are highlighting is why it's important to hear from bob mueller. because even the questions barr got during the hearings were questions he couldn't answer, what do you think mueller by this and what do you think this meant? there was one time bill barr said i don't want to characterize bob barr's thought process -- sorry, i keep doing

that. attorney general barr said he didn't want to characterize robert mueller's thought process. i think it's fair for congress to ask questions to bob mueller about what he meant, and what did he mean by the letter. if we want to know if the attorney general lied or not, i don't know the answer to that and i don't understand the legalese parsing of it, that's the only way to find out. >> what's up with the president changing his mind? the attorney general said publically on the record it's fine if robert mueller testifies? >> this is a benefit of being on the outside. >> what do you see going on? >> i think, again, like the special counsel investigates, issues a report. the attorney general didn't have to release the report under the legal guidelines. he did so. he did so with very minimal redactions. what bob mueller has to say is largely enclosed in that report. and i think what democrats want to do on the hill is add, you

know, tape to it, add some publicity to it and try to embarrass the president. this isn't about fact finding. can i quickly take issue with this claim that the speaker put out that bill barr lied. if you look at the plain text of what was said in that question and answer. he answered the question accurately and correctly, and i don't think there's anything he should be or the department of justice should be concerned about. >> i'm glad you brought it up. this week on capitol hill, this was a noticeable shift from nancy pelosi, a deliberate escalation in her war of words with the administration. >> madame speaker did the attorney general commit a crime? >> he lied to congress. he lied to congress. and if anybody else did that, it would be considered a crime. nobody is above the law. not the president of the united states and not the attorney general. being attorney general does not give you a bath to go say

whatever you want and it is the fact because you are the attorney general. >> should he go to jail? should he go to jail for it? >> there's a process involved here, and, as i said, i'll say it again, the committee will act upon how we will proceed. >> to, rick, she didn't want to say one way or the other whether bill barr should go to jail, which would be a natural consequence of committing a crime and being convicted of it. what do you make of that escalation that she took with the attorney general? i don't think she would say that if she did not think this was very clear cut. >> i think it would be hard to prove a crime. if the attorney general said i never received a letter from robert mueller and we find out he did, this would be more binary. but this was a characterization of what he thought and what mueller thought, i think that's going to be hard to prove. but we're into week three of a white house spin game. they know that most people are not going to read a 488 page

report. so they're going to rely on other people to interpret that report for them. so far the white house has been interpreting that report as no obstruction -- >> that's what the entire letter he said, that he wrote. >> the mueller report was to layout the facts and not come to a prosecutorial conclusion on it. that would provide congress with a road map to decide whether they want to impeach or not. we are in the process now. and congress should relax, calm down, look at the report, investigate the report, where it leads. they should get all the underlying documentation and pursue it. i don't think they should declare or write up articles of impeachment. i think they should go through the process first because impeachment is a political death penalty and i don't think it's going to happen. but they do need to go to the process because that's their congressional oversight

responsibili responsibility. >> you're saying barr is a political appointee and it's fine if he's a spin doctor. that's not how many people see the attorney general, they see them as upholding the law of the country. i think the disappointment of many people with bill barr is that he has put himself in this position of putting the best possible spin, it wasn't part of my team or this is not what bob mueller meant by that letter. that's not how most people interpret the attorney general's role. >> i don't think he's put on the best possible spin. he has not concealed parts of that report embarrassing to the white house. >> did they want those pieces of con concealed. >> they didn't exercise executive privilege. but he has the right to not release information. and i know the letter was a form of exonerating the president but he quoted bob mueller's report saying it did not exonerate the president on the portion of

obstruction. he made the determination -- >> he completely wiped ignored the whole section of the report where bob mueller essentially said that congress should decide whether or not the president obstructed justice. bill barr decided for himself. >> congress has the right to look at whatever it sees fit to look at and the president and administration could comply where it sees fit. what he characterized is he also as the attorney general should look at the facts that are established here and determine whether or not he thinks the president committed a crime. he and the deputy attorney general, whose opinion seems to be always overlooked, rod rosenstein, who everybody hailed as the savior, who was going to protect bob mueller, did just that and said i come to the same conclusion as bill barr, the president did not obstruct justice. >> it comes back to this idea that number one, bob mueller lays out how he considered the olc opinion when it came to trying to make a decision -- >> and the olc opinion, ton

clear, is a ruling that says a sitting president could not be indicted. >> yes. that did clearly play in his thinking when it came to not coming to a conclusion about that. that's one thing. but that's because if you keep going with that logic, that it comes back to the fact that it is congress' job to decide whether a president should be able to stay in office or not, or it's the people's job to decide that when it comes to an election in 2020. so it's like rick said, he laid out a road map. he felt he could not say the president should be indicted because of the olc opinion. now it's up to congress to make that decision. i think when it comes to bill barr, one thing we have to realize, and i think the memo or letter that he put out before he became attorney general about what he felt was executive powers, he has a specific definition of executive power. i think it's sort of clear, and i don't want to come off as a bill barr apologist, but i think it's fair to say his definition

of it i think comes from an idea of being wary of a constitutional crisis. so if you don't have all the proof and all the evidence and everything else, and you think the president should be able to act in certain ways then his instinct is to protect it. for him i think it's based on his legal beliefs and everything else. >> we knew that going in. >> i think we have to make that clear. >> what the white house wants to do is put up a roadblock and turn the page. which is why they're not honoring subpoenas, why they don't want witnesses to come before congress and congress needs to ignore that and follow and proceed along the road map. we have a lot more to come on "kasie dc." i'm going to talk to a member of house leadership and the attorneys for convicted russian agent maria butina. i'm also joined by representative joe cunningham about the climate for drilling for oil in his hometown.

we've seen stunts before in congress and then there was what happened this week. we're back after this. congressman steve cohen of tennessee brought a bucket of kentucky fried chicken to the hearing. >> what's the message you're trying to send. >> bill barr is a chicken. >> you're a chicken. >> you're a chicken. >> what are you doing? >> women -- >> that's what i was just telling him. >> i haven't found the right girl. when i do, i will ask her out. has anyone in this family seen a chicken? ♪ >> oh, come on! >> oh, come on like my bike, and my calves. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ there's thousands of ingredients out there. the freshest stuff this planet can grow.

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it's difficult to recall an interaction or conversation between president trump and vladimir putin that didn't draw widespread criticism here at home. there was the time the president ignored a do not congratulate warning in his briefing materials following putin's reelection and congratulated him over the phone anyway. during their first face-to-face meeting the president took his interpreter's notes afterward and told him not to disclose what he heard. and there was the summit in h d helsinki where the president took putin's word over meddling

in the 2016 election. so it shouldn't come as a surprise when they spoke about the mueller report, the topic of future meddling didn't come up. >> did you address the meddling issues that came up in the mueller report with putin today? >> sort of smiled when he said something to the effect that it started off as a mountain and it ended up being a mouse. but he knew that because he knew there was no collusion whatsoever. so pretty much that's what it was. >> mr. president, did you tell him not to meddle in the next election? >> excuse me. i'm talking. i'm answering this next question. you are very rude. >> so we had a good conversation about many different things. okay? >> did you tell him not to meddle in the next election? >> we didn't discuss that. >> just noting the word rude is the last word i would use for my colleague kristen welker, who was asking that question.

raj shah, i realize this is your maiden voyage on "kasie dc," i'm sorry to put you on the spot but explain why it is the president has these interactions with vladimir putin that baffle not just democrats but the republican party. they don't understand why the president treats him this way. why? >> i don't really understand sort of the obsession in washington d.c., both sides of the aisle, with how the president speaks to putin, whereas if he confronted him for five minutes in the phone call, all of a sudden the election meddling plans out of moscow would not happen -- >> you're saying that he can't do anything about it? >> no, i think that actions speak louder than words -- >> so what has the president done? >> the russians are going to consistently try to meddle in elections all around the world. >> the president has defunded the dhs task force aimed at

election security -- >> the president has sanctioned institutions and individuals throughout russia involved in meddling, continued the sanctions. the treasure department has taken action. and on the geopolitical side they armed ukrainian operatives with lethal weapons. they have taken actions in this administration tougher than previous administrations. if you want a road map for not how to handle election meddling, look at the last dpradministrat. >> is raj correct in this had? >> no. there's concern why the president doesn't take on vladimir putin. the argument they didn't have time in this conversation, this conversation apparently lasted for an hour and a half. there is time to say do not meddle in this our elections. it wasn't just on the elections. also over the issue of venezuela. the president comes out and says the russians are not meddling in

venezuela, the president told me so. the next day his secretary of state tweets out a video saying the russians are responsible for why we have 3,000 refugees from venezuela. on two big issues the president sides with vladimir putin. >> this seems to be something where the national security apparatus is in a different space than president trump. >> first of all, president obama removed 12 russian operatives and closed two compounds down, i think he was pretty tough. but secondly, i think that donald trump is going down a very dangerous road when he won't confront vladimir putin, whose government is responsible for interfering not just in our election, in the brexit election, the french elections, the ukrainian elections and their goal is simple. they want to undermine the united states, our freedom and they want the united states to

help him undermine nato, that's clear. i call putin an enemy. >> i think romney called him a geopolitical foe. >> you go down this road where you give vladimir putin more credibility than american intelligence over the reporting of the american media and other the mueller report, which the first section details in great detail russian meddling in the election. this is another thing congress has to pursue in the mueller report is to get into that first part of the report and figure out what congress is going to do to stop election meddling. we can dismiss it like jared kushner did, a few facebook ads -- >> do you agree with that? was kushner right? >> i think the spending was several hundred thousand dollars -- >> was that all it amounted to? >> the wikileaks and the releasing of the emails. >> and they breached an election machine, they didn't do anything with it, but they breached it.

you need to breach one county in one presidential election and you can turn the election. >> we also had a 2018 midterm election which there was unprecedented efforts and spending by the department of homeland security that protected the integrity of the election. >> why does the president defend putin? >> i any the united states has a lot of important issues in which russia is a major act -- >> like what? they have an economy the size of new york. >> north korea, venezuela. you can agree or disagree with what the president is doing but to say he should focus exclusively on election meddling. >> not exclusively. >> last word. >> you mentioned venezuela and north korea are things that russia is involved in. those are things we don't like russia's involvement in eitherov those two things, number one. number two, if actions speak louder than words and this administration has continued the sanctions that the obama administration started on russia

and longer ones since then, then is it sort of upon the president to say if we have to protect our country, then should you support legislation -- we talked to mark warner earlier this week and he was like, okay, if it is not illegal for a campaign to be reached out to by a foreign power and they have to report it to the u.s. government, if that is not illegal, it should be illegal, right? couldn't the president, even if he is going to be buddy, buddy with president putin, couldn't he be, say, proactive about other things to do internally to protect our election systems. >> i think those are fair questions to raise. i don't think if there's legislation -- >> answer that question. >> if there's legislation to be looked at, that's fine to have certain legislation looked at. when i was at the white house, i got to go to the podium and announce the united states led a coalition of countries, including in european, that expelled hundreds of russian diplomats from their countries.

we closed a consulate in seattle. this president walks the walk and doesn't just talk about it. >> it would be foufrl powerful if he talked about it. >> i think actions are more than lip service. >> the way he treats justin trudeau, angela merkel than the way he treats vladimir putin. raj, thank you for being here. coming up congressman joe cunningham out of south carolina. and joe biden is in a class of his own. >> folks, look, that's what this is all about about. >> folks. >> folks. >> folks, look -- >> folks, folks, folks, folks. >> no one is going to work harder to get the support of the

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house speaker nancy pelosi has a message for the house democrats in her caucus. stay in your lane. preerb p p preferably the center left one. she laid out her plans for the election, own the center left, own the main stream. she's reminding liberal democrats they retook the house because we did not engage in some of the other exbub ranss in our party. i want to welcome congressman joe cunningham from south carolina. great to have you back. >> great to be here. >> let's start with nancy pelosi said. there are some that called to impeach this president. are you with nancy pelosi in thinking there are too many

risks to go down that path? >> i think what he said about the center lane and how that is the path forward, i think she's absolutely right. we have to look at the states like iowa, south carolina, others where democrats flipped red districts and made them blue. i'm in one here that hasn't had a democrat in almost four decades. >> what do you think is the right tact with the investigations? if you're going to take a step back from the impeachment question and look at how democrats are proceeding with subpoenas of documents in a number of committees. are you -- do you believe that they are taking the right approach in the investigations or is that too dangerous for somebody in a district like yours? >> i mean, look, cakasie, i was sent to d.c. to provide common sense leadership and look at this whole situation objectively. i have to say that what i'm

seeing right now is very alarming. we need checks and balances in our system and i think that's what we're trying to show up there in d.c. by having these committees provide oversight, provide investigations. at the end of the day we want the facts. we want people to just show up and tell the truth, and we seem to be having a hard time getting that accomplished. >> nancy pelosi said this week she thinks bill barr committed a crime, the attorney general, when he lied to congress, do you agree? >> he wasn't straight up with us. that falls back into the pattern of behavior we've seen with him from coming out with this press conference to providing that four-page summary that wasn't a true and accurate reflection of mueller's report. this has been an ongoing pattern in which he's acting more like president trump's personal attorney than he is attorney for the united states. that right there is very disturbing. >> what do you hear from voters when you go home? how much of this is on their

radar screen or are they focussed mainly on other issues? >> i wasn't sent up to washington d.c. to focus on this. i was sent up there to focus on kitchen table issues, the ones that got us elected. banning offshore drilling. people were concerned about the threat of offshore drilling along the coastline, people were concerned about the crumbling infrastructure, the tariffs that are hurting companies in our district. that's what's concerning people and that's what i'm hearing. those are some of the issues we're trying to tackle on the natural resources committee or other committees. >> what would you say to your colleagues from more liberal districts that are focussed more broadly on arguing against the president. are they putting you in danger? >> no. listen, i'm going to continue -- people are going to concentrate their message representing their district. i'm concerned about representing the first district of south carolina. that's why i've gone to washington d.c. and i've been an

objective voice and pragmatic voice and worked in bipartisan fashion. the bills that i'm introducing have bipartisan support. i think at the end of the day, people in this country want to see democrats and republicans working together to tackle the big problems we have in this country. climate change in our infrastructure, the price of health care. these are what should be nonpartisan issues. the fact is, we're basically concentrating solely on this mueller investigation and president trump, that there are so many other issues that we can and will tackle. >> let's talk about climate change, i'm glad you raised it, i know it's important to folks in a coastal district like yours. the green new deal, do you support it or not? >> no, and i don't think this has to be you neither support the green new deal or you don't believe in climate change. i think there can be a third way for it. that third way is democrats and republicans working together to address climate change, to address the fact we're here in

the low country, we see it front and center. we see it in downtown charleston, flooding. paris island in our district is one of only two military installations that makes enlisted marines and it's the only military installation that makes female marines. by 2050 paris island will be flooded a third of the year. you want to talk about national security, protecting our military, climate change is front and center. >> what can you do that's big enough to actually address it, that can pass the congress? would you support a carbon tax, for example? >> there's a lot of ways to address this, but we need to stop having the discussion where it's either the green new deal or nothing at all. there are other avenues that democrats and republicans can work on to eliminate our carbon footprint or to drive it down. we need to have some long term

goals, but we also need to have some short-term goals that address the flooding and the secondary impacts that come from climate change. congressman joe cunningham, thanks for coming on the program tonight. >> thanks for having me, good seeing you. this week it was reported that the senate confirmed the 100th judicial nominee. i know you're all laser focussed on the presidential race but when we come back, why control of the senate and the sple supreme court is in play right now. supreme court is in play right now. only pay for what you need. liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ but super poligrip gives him a tight seal. snacking can mean that pieces get stuck under mike's denture. to help block out food particles. so he can enjoy the game. super poligrip.

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this week a trio of high profile democrats turned down running for the senate. stacey abrams, cindy axny and joaquin castro. other potential top tier candidates have passed on senate bids to take a shot at the white house instead. beto o'rourke passed on a senate race against john cornyn in texas. john hickenlooper in colorado, and montana governor is expecting to join the 2020 field soon. for all the energy from democrats, you know, the things that really matter, that set the long-term agenda of this country are decided in the united states senate. what's going on here?

>> number one, let's rehash what you said before break, which is 100 judicial nominations have made it through on the federal level. there are more to come this week in the senate. that is re-making, which is like for republicans incredibly brilliant but it's remaking the judiciary who decide things for a very, very long time no matter what happens to president trump. but i think when it comes to the senate, especially if you are a governor, a hickenlooper or bullock and you see it's hard to get anything done in congress that's big and incremental and you see you have a shot for the biggest job in the land i can see you saying i'm not going to try that because i'll get frustrated and never do as well as the day i won in the senate. >> fair enough. >> joaquin castro, he's in congress, so he's in the mosh pit if you like of the

fighting -- >> senator cornyn is not easy to beach. he used to be part of the leadership. people in texas like him as a friend as well, as do other democratic signatures in congress. that is a harder cal c calculation. >> rick, why do you think it's going to be happening? >> if p the democrats think there's a wave you get a lot of senators that want to run. the problem is not the math, the math should work in the republican -- in the democrats' favor because they were defending 22 seats and the republicans 12. the problem is there's one or two competitive races, colorado. maine is another one because clinton won it but it's not that competitive. there might be another one -- >> plus in arizona. >> arizona certainly. >> i think that chuck schumer

views this as a game for 2022 and beyond. it's not necessarily -- >> alabama -- >> alabama is a mess for republicans. i wasn't sure it was possible for doug jones to get re-elected watch the republican primary -- rick thank you for coming tonight. when we come back, author emi emi emilioseioser wrote the "new yo times" book "expecting better". we're back after this. >> who's got a new topic? >> i'm pregnant -- >> no! >> congratulations, ann. >> so when are you due? >> looking like late may. >> oh, late may, yikes. >> what? what is it? >> well, are you worried about a tourist baby? >> no, i'm not worried about a tourist baby. i am worried about 10 million other things. i am worried about other things hey, who are you? oh, hey jeff, i'm a car thief... what?!

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if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery. tell your doctor if you've had mental health problems. the most common side effect is nausea. talk to your doctor about chantix. welcome back. in a political moment full of firsts, we've been hearing conversations about presidential candidates on the 2020 campaign trail that are far different than what we've heard in the past. >> that's great.

i need people like you to help me. how do i stick with this. >> very rewarding. >> it was wonderful. even i was working full-time wi both kids and nursed them both for nine months and then had to pump, of course. but i was able to keep even back to work the morning and evening nursing and such perfect bonding. it is a wonderful way to -- >> best way do go. >> so healthy, too. yeah. so i was lucky. some moms said they can't. >> a great example of needing more women in the political debate. my next guest is a professor at brown university whose first book "expecting better" applied economic models of decision making to parents many questions facing a first-time pregnancy. professor oster is taking on early parents in "cribsheet" out just in time for me.

thank you for being on the show and giving many e this book. >> thank you for having me. >> we were just chatting. i'm a mom to be. emily has two kids katy has four. what you have done, you know, first with "expecting better" is trying to take all of the things -- the advice people give you when you're pregnant and say it like it's absolutely true. we don't know where it comes from. >> absolutely. the work of the book to try to say what is the evidence really say? people are standing behind you the starbucks saying is that decaf? you know? the book is -- hey! is it okay if it's not decaf? what's the evidence say about that? and early parenting is the same. breastfeeding, what does the evidence say? >> what does the ed say? this is an international political issue. the united states at one point was accused of pulling out of an

international conference on it supporting formula makers. what do we know about the wisdom? >> breastfeeding is hard to study in the u.s. and that's linked to a lot of good outcomes that breastfeeding is linked to. is it breastfeeding or something else? looking into the best evidence, there is some good evidence that it is good for early life health, digestion, maybe breast cancer reduction for mom. but some of these other things you will hear like make make your kids smarter are not supported in the best data. >> so the subtitle is a data driven guide to better, more relaxed parenting. i would like to relax this in some of a more relaxed way. what would you say? you are a parent. you are also a researcher. what's the key to figuring that out? >> first, i'm actually not a

very relaxed parent. and so my mother's saying i can't believe you wrote a book this says relaxed parent in it. the message of the book is really like there are many good choices and that we spend a lot of time in parenting telling people, you know, this is the right choice. do it this way, do it this way. the book says in most cases there are different choices that could be the right choice. you have to pick the one that's right for you and then maybe you'll be more relaxed. >> it seems you're trying to say there's a ton of data and pick advice to support pretty much any position but go with your gut. fundamentally go with the instincts. people have been parenting for thousands and thousands of years and tend to get it right. >> the economist would say go with your prempss aferences and combine them with your data. do you want to sleep with the kid in your bed or not? some of that should be about

your preferences. you should see the data, the data's important for telling you is that risky? how risky? ultimately, you will have to use some of your gut or your preferences or your optimization to try to figure out the choices to work for you. >> the important thing, i think, to take the guilt out of this. right? there is so much guilt in pregnancy and early parenting. particularly i think as mothers more than as fathers and the more you can de-guiltify the process the more, kasie, you can be relaxed. >> guilt free. >> that's what i'm going for and already -- i'm only halfway through this. very beginning of it. >> it's not a problem. >> so let's talk about one piece that you talk l in the book from a data perspective is vaccines and exploded on the national stage. just so that we're very, very clear, what's the da the say about vaccinating your kids?

>> vaccines are safe and effective. there are huge studies and people much more advanced in terms of understanding the impact have spent, you know, years and years and years establishing that the literature says that the vaccines are safe and effective. they do not cause autism. do not cause negative consequences but they prevent your kids from getting vaccine-preventable diseases which can happen to them. >> where are people getting this quote/unquote -- not data. it's -- is it the internet's full of bad information? is that they have friends with bad experiences? >> i think there's sort of one piece which is there was some literature and debunked which suggested a link of autism and -- >> very small. >> one tiny study, 12 people, turned out some of the data probably fabricated. study retracted. >> getting some financial rewards. the whole thing. >> the whole thing was sort

of -- nothing. subsequent -- not like that's the only study. last week, 700,000 kids in denmark showing no link of autism and vaccine and i think sort of debunked that and people think maybe there's something i'm missing about that and then hear from people saying my kid had vaccines an then this thing happened to them. it is not the case that the vaccines caused that thing but hard to understand -- we want to look for causeality and associations in the data and hard to ignore. >> what should -- quickly, as we wrap up here, what sections should members of congress read in here trying to decide child leave, family paid? >> maternity leave is good for baby's health and good, paid family leave would improve outcomes. >> paternity leave, as well? >> there's no good evidence. the best evidence on maternity leave and it is a good idea.

>> i go with paternity leave is good for moms. has to be good for kids. professor emily, thank you so much for coming down. >> thank you for having me. >> the book is "cribsheet." katty kay, thank you so much, as well. i'm relying for you on advice. the trump economy is roaring. 2020 democrats will have to prove a rising tide has not lifted all boetds and we will have the kasie dvr when we return. with a snap of my fingers! i just saved money with geico. i saved hundreds of dollars! nice! that is a lot of money. the power is exhilarating!! hahahahahaha! hah. ha. just got something in my throat. yea... marvel studio's "avengers endgame." in theaters april 26.

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it's been a rough patch for trump foreign policy. >> north korea tested what appeared to be short range missiles. >> what is your read on this? >> we have every intention of negotiating a good resolution. >> there isn't a real negotiation tactic. the north koreans said they -- >> they said you have a quote mean character. moments in the conversation i thought mean might be correct. >> there was in phone call between vladimir putin and president trump. >> the president said he discussed the mueller report but not russian election interference. >> this president is totally dazzled by vladimir putin. he gets on the phone and he loses it. >> we're working to ensure that the elections aren't interfered with. >> turning, general, seemed to become a target this week. >> pelosi was really direct saying that barr lied. >> do you agree with her? >> i don't know what other

conclusion you reach. >> i believe he should resign. >> the mueller report like a hair on the biscuit and attacking bill barr. >> bill barr is a protege of dick cheney. >> it's time to move on. >> i recommend that we impeach attorney general barr. >> it is not up to the executive branch. >> bill barr nows he has the power and he is telling them to go shove it. >> welcome to our second hour of "kasie d.c.." joining me is kimberly atkins and brendan buck. shawna thomas. and philippe reinus. thank you all for being here. quote, bob mueller should not testify. president trump said that in a

tweet 48 hours after saying this in the oval office. >> mr. president, should mueller testify? >> i don't know. that's up to our attorney general. >> when the president made that comment, bill barr had already said publicly on multiple occasions that she does not have a problem with mueller testifying. the president's shift in tone comes as a house judiciary source tells nbc news so date is set for mueller to testify before the committee but that talks are ongoing. the senate side, chairman graham has already sent a letter to mueller offering him the opportunity to testify about, quote, any misrepresentation by the attorney general of the substance of a phone call that mueller had with barr about barr's four-page summary of the mueller report. here is barr's description of that phone call. >> i said, bob, what's with the letter? you know? why don't you just pick up the phone and call me if there's an

issue? and he said that they were concerned about the way the media was playing this. >> of course, mueller's own words paint a very different picture. in his letter to barr, mueller quote, quote, the summary letter did not fully capture the context, nature or substance of the office's work and conclusions. if mueller testifies, will the description differ from barr's and what does that mean for an attorney general accused of lying under oath? separately, how might mueller respond to say, this line of questioning from amy clob char. >> president trump stated, mueller i assume for $35 million he checked my taxes and he checked my financials. is that accurate? did the special counsel review the president's taxes and the trump organization's financial

statements? >> i don't know. >> can you find out if i ask later in a written question? >> yes or you could ask bob mueller when he comes here. >> okay. with that, kimberly atkins, it was quite a moment for bill barr on capitol hill and now you have this kind of shifting state of affairs from the white house. >> yes. >> the president has not previously expressed a problem necessarily with bob mueller testifying. what are they worried about now? >> i think it's been clear from the beginning that bill barr's view of everything has differed greatly from the person who actually ran the museumer investigation rob mueller so if you have him going to congress answering these questions, not just what's up with this letter and what happened during that phone call, but what exactly he found, talking about the obstruction evidence, breaking it down, being very deliberate

and saying that he did leave it as he said in the report up to congress to make an ultimate decision, not bill barr himself, that's problem attic for this president. bill barr's i guess at the -- what can you call it? spin of the mueller report and the investigation is very positive for the president. and he is like that so far he thought that this was good and bringing mueller back can be nothing but problematic for him. >> you used the word, spin. philippe, naturally i will come to you. >> i'm being attacked. >> hillary clinton's spin-meister and probably could have. what is your -- i mean, as somebody who has spent a lot of time thinking about how to shape a narrative, what is the impact of the summary that barr put out? because this essentially seems to be, you know, mueller feels his work misrepresented by how it was covered and seems to me that barr potentially materially changed the political course of this. what's your take on how that

unfolded? >> it was very ham handed and i think there have been two sets of people who have come into the administration at that level. one has been the people that shouldn't be there, almost, and other side is washington, d.c. establishment people. and they've tended to turn out to be disappointing to donald trump because they haven't done everything he wanted. barr is an unnerving combination of the two where he had the establishment credentials but is acting no differently than mark whitaker would have been acting and i have to admit i got it wrong when barr was nominated i thought, you know what? this guy is going to do -- protect the constitution and the justice department and he is not. and he went too far. this whole notion that donald trump loves these performances by these folks and playing to an audience of one, the problem is that donald trump almost all of his problems are self inflicted and he's encouraging people to also -- we are sitting here watching the clips and they're

comical. bob, why did you call -- why did you write a letter? clearly confess. >> yeah. >> and i think when it's what ham handed he is asking for it. look at lindsay graham. for him to say, you know what? director mueller, you want to come? sure. he knows that he needs to get mueller before the house side does. >> i actually thought that that was a remarkable moment because graham previously said i don't want to hear from bob mueller but the discrepancy of the call and the letter left even him saying, hey, i need to figure this out. >> i think he was trying to call the bluff of democrats saying that mueller might be more up set about this than he actually is. i know that we are -- >> may find that out. >> i'm thinking that the whole hysteria is bizarre. the conversation seems to be as though this report is locked in a drawer somewhere.

the question, what we argue over is how bill barr characterized a report we have now. and so, i'm wondering at this point what difference does it make? we have the facts. and i assume pretty soon bob mueller will come and talk about them in great length. >> my sense is that this fits together with the obstruction piece of this because bill barr did make a decision to say that they could not prosecute him on obstruction when robert mueller seemed to -- >> that's the open question if he would have perhaps recommended charges against him. that's the one thing we need an answer to. but that's really not what the conversation was about the last week and democrats were hammering bill barr to the point where they did a great job of making sure he doesn't get elected president but he's not running president and didn't lay a finger on donald trump the

last week. >> i take your point about hysteria. however, the level of incuriosity on the part of the house leadership on down through the commit tee, the things they don't seem to want to know that all of us are dying to know, if you're a curious person, you would want to see or hear from. i mean, how's it that -- it's even remarkably different than your former boss was the speaker of the house. >> the entire conversation was to make sure that bob mueller's able to do his work and get this report out and ultimately what we have and okay, now, we have the facts and maybe not what people thought they would be for a couple of years, the president perhaps colluded with russians but we have the facts and may be disappointing to some but i don't know that we learn more by another house investigation. >> calling me the spin-meister? >> we'll learn something from them talking to bob mueller. whether it's the senate or the house. if graham calls him up and he agrees, yes maybe a

republican-controlled senate gets the first stab at him and still lots of democrats who want to make names for themselves because a lot of them running for president, too, who have very valid questions about the olc opinion, about why bob mule -- mueller came to that conclusion and did you write that path to down to a path to impeachment or investigation? that's the question. i think one, members of congress deserve it from an oversight perspective. two, the public deserves it. >> philippe? >> i was going to say that brendan is right that probably everyone is investing too much of bob mueller coming in. all he has to do is sit any of the 448 pages and it is absolutely devastating, dramatic reading of his findings. it did outline facts, at least ten instances of clear obstruction that to this day i have never seen a lawyer on tv to understand what it meant or

why he wasn't. and, you know, this is not good for -- let's just say for a second mueller intimates or pressed on whether he was pressured to wrap up early or felt pressured to not seek a subpoena to compel donald trump to be interviewed. >> that's a great question. >> no upside for donald trump in bob mueller appearing and why he is saying no. >> yeah. kimberly, i think that's a very good sort of frame in a way. >> that is a good frame and also the question that was put up this past week by the current speaker whether or not the attorney general of the united states lied an committed a crime. the conversation in the context of was a conversation with robert mueller. i think there are a lot of questions. i don't think that anybody is at this point expecting robert mueller who didn't say anything, spoke only through his indictments for two years to come and give a bombshell on his own, a bombshell opening statement or something but i

think after that two years and not seen him speak and because there are a lot of discrepancies, factually, than between what the report seems to say and the attorney general says, legal discrepancies down to the issue that you do not have to have an underlying crime to have -- commit obstruction an didn't seem to state that clearly and discrepancies with the conclusion you need the person who led the investigation to speak. >> i don't believe any member of congress says they don't want to hear robert mueller testify because come on! we have all been waiting for years. like -- ugh. anyway, shawna, thank you so much for coming on tonight. before break, i did want to share a fascinating piece of reporting from the associated press. michael cohen is going to prison. and he's going to a place outside new york city tomorrow where, quote, white collar and d-list scoundrels can do time while playing bocce ball and noshing on arugala and serving

the sentence with the likes of "jersey shore" star turned tax fraud convict mike at "the situation" sorrentino and billy mcfarland. it sounds like the closest thing the federal prison system has to sleep away camp. here's michael cohen taken inconspicuously getting his hair cut in new york before reporting. we have more to come. dan kildee, house speaker nancy pelosi told me that bill barr lied to congress. so what if anything are democrats to do about it? plus, the federal judge had plenty to say about maria butina before sentencing her. her lawyers join me for a joint interview. back after this. or this john smith.

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house speaker nancy pelosi is standing by her belief that the 2020 election is the right way to get president trump out of office. but she says the margin of victory had better be substantial. in an interview with "the new york times" pelosi recalls the concern that he would delegitimatize the election and note that is she has similar concerns about 2020. pelosi said, quote, he would poison the public mind, challenge the races and would

say you can't seat these people. we had to win. imagine if we hadn't win. don't imagine. we have to have the same approach. joining me is congressman dan kildee of michigan. congressman, great to have you back on the program. >> thank you. >> are you with nancy pelosi on this? are you concerned that the president might try to cast the election as illegitimate if the margin is not big enough? >> i am concerned. this president dpemonstrated he has no respect for the judiciary, no respect for the media, electorate or rule of law. he is solely interested in his self interest and i just don't put anything past him. i think it is important that we won this election. and i think the speaker is right. we won a by a big margin and it's a good thing we did. >> her prescription for winning

2020 we have to own the center left and the mainstream. do you think that's the right approach? >> i think it is to own the mainstream, own the main street. what i hear about back home is about the cost of health care, prescription drugs, retirement security, the fact that people work harder and don't seem to be getting ahead. you know? there is regional disparity in our economy and i represent one of those areas that has never really caught on even when the economy is in expansion. that's what i hear about. and that's what we talked about in those heartland districts that really constitute the majority that we have. we flipped a lot of red seats to blue in places where people are more concerned about economics than they are about what's going on in washington. >> all the economic numbers are really good for president trump. unemployment, you know, number that's up on where it was in the '60s for the first time. what's going on? do your c-- do you think

democrats convince them to steward this economy? are people not feeling that number? >> they don't feel it. i understand why. there's been growth in the economy for sure. it's measured in ways that generally have benefited people at the top. no question about that. we are seeing some upward wage pressure but people are really anxious and a reason behind that. they don't feel the economic security that the data would have them feel. and it's because it's getting harder. people are working harder, the wages are not growing the way they should. retirement security, this is a really big issue. people are real anxious about whether or not when they're ready to retire they will have the retirement that was promised to them. that's a function of public policy. we should be doing something about it. this is why the agenda that we're pushing which includes reducing the price of prescription drugs, which includes securing pensions, unfortunately a lot of the

debate over those issues is crowded out. >> i was going to say, how do you balance -- the whole last week, you know, here in washington we were talking about bill barr, the mueller report, talking about questions of impeachment, did he lie to congress? does that get in the way of your messaging on other issues? >> it can get in the way but i don't really think there's any choice that we have to be able to do more than one thing at a time. we have to hold this administration accountable. not because of the politics of it. but because of the constitution that we swore an oath to uphold and then we obviously have to spend a lot of time making sure that people understand that while we're doing that, we are also pursuing the things that they sent us here to pursue to make life better for them, to create a path forward for every american. we have to be able to do more than one thing at a time. i don't think we have a choice. >> the speaker this week really escalated her fight with the administration by coming out and

saying publicly that she thinks bill barr committed a crime. she thinks he lied to congress. do you agree? did he lie to congress? >> he lied to congress. whether that's a crime or constitutes a crime, i'm not an attorney. if it's a crime to lie to congress, bill barr lied to congress and he will have to be held accountable for that. there's no question that he had interaction with mr. mueller. he had the letter. he even in the senate testimony referred to the conversation he had, hey, you know, why didn't you call? what about this letter? he clearly had ongoing interaction more than one with mr. mueller and then said he didn't have any objection at all and then he tried to do this almost ridiculous hair splitting over whether he was talking about mr. mueller or mr. mueller's team. it was just ridiculous. >> what's behind kind of the shift, the escalation? she's been so careful in public to steer clear of impeachment, to say it's a process, very

careful. this really landed with a bang. >> well, i think it's because the speaker and the rest of us are really responding to the actions of the president. it's the president who's pushing us to the place where we have to consider more significant action. it's the president who's saying that he's not going to have any subpoenas answered. he is going to essentially ignore this important role of the congress for oversight over him. that's the president taking us to this place and it's -- actually he's moving a lot of more moderate members of the house who never imagined they would be thinking about impeachment or about anything that would be sort of going to that place. >> interesting. >> suddenly feeling like maybe there won't be a choice. maybe president trump gotten to the point he won't give us choice. >> do you think that holding impeachment hearings hands republicans the presidential election in 2020? >> i don't know that it would do that but there would be a political consequences to it.

i do. we have to be thoughtful about that but i don't think we can get so obsessed about the political implication that if we forget about why we're here and the oath we swore to the constitution. we have to hold this president accountable. the precedent that we set for failing to use every tool we have, to hold him accountable, for having absolutely no respect, no regard for the constitution, is a very dangerous precedent and it's not one that i want to be a part of. >> all right. congressman kildee, thank you very much. >> thank you. just ahead, larry kudlow makes a viral video. >> wow. low unemployment. high jobs. high wages. big consumer confidence. major productivity. and no inflation! it's totally awesome. we're killing it on the economy. - the tech industry is supposed to be a leader in invention and progress. but only 11% of its executives are women,

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do you think that americans feel -- >> yes. >> -- the effects of the economy under president trump? >> i look at these surveys, the answer is yes, yes, and yes. they feel better. they're more confident about their personal finances.

i'll continue my valiant efforts to pursue joe biden that supply side works. >> wow! low unemployment. high jobs. high wages. big consumer confidence. major productivity. and no inflation! it's totally awesome. we're killing it on the economy. >> okay. by many measures, the american economy continues to grow healthily looking at the data but the question is, are average americans feeling it? latest nbc/"the wall street journal" poll shows the president 51% approval for the handling of the economy. and here are 2020 democrats trying to blunt some of those headlines. >> donald trump will be on television, hey, the economy's booming. best economy in the history of the world. >> i give our workers and businesses credit. >> i get that trump is taking credit. >> donald trump elected and i'll confess even he couldn't screw up the momentum. >> a lot of people aren't

sharing in this prosperity because of the cost. the cost of college. the cost of health care. >> can't afford housing. they can't afford health care. they can't afford higher education. >> this is the wealthiest country in the history of the world. half of the workers are living paycheck to paycheck. >> we have to make sure this is a shared recovery. >> they can't afford a middle class lifestyle and donald trump has done nothing to help with that. >> so much here. philippe, brendan, i'm interested in what i assume -- i shouldn't assume -- but i assume opposing perspective. the numbers are good. the president's approval rating is 51% on the economy but way lower overall and if you look at what happened in 2018, there are clearly a lot of americans with economic anxiety. >> i think the argument the democrats are making there is the one he has the biggest challenge with. too many people think the economy's doing well in spite of him, not because of him and the

reality is the story is great. the normal democrat talking points that wages aren't going up, it's wrong. wages are going up and the benefits to the top. that's not true. the bottom half is seeing the biggest wage growth. the problem is communicating economic messages is hard. really boring and it requires a lot of discipline and knowing about the president discipline is not necessarily his strongest suit. and so you have to tell this story over and over again and, for example, he had a great jobs report this past week. big gdp report and i question whether he'll talk about that next week. >> kimberly's shaking his head. >> that's not been -- how many times have we discussed, a great economic report or something just happened and talking no collusion and the other things? look. it's tough for the democrats. the power of incumbency is huge coming to the presidential race anyway. when the economy is strong, that makes it each harder. but despite the fact that the

wage numbers are creeping up, it is a creep. there's still a lot of people who are not feeling this -- >> we have historic inequality. >> it's gaps. gaps, geographically, racially, gender. and there's just a lot of people not feeling it because they're not seeing their paychecks grow at the rate of the big numbers are growing so democrats have to be able to say explicitly how that's going to be different under a democratic leadership, what they'll do because right now the wind, the tailwind is with the president. >> philippe? >> i think we are seeing donald trump do what he's done best since he was in his 20s which is inherit something and pretend he created it. the obama economy, even he can't screw it up. >> i think michael bennett. >> he is trying to screw it up. $1.2 trillion tax cut when we're not in a recession and not the norm in basic terms but also $1

trillion of it didn't go to anyone's pockets. it went to corporations who bought back their own stock and i would like to think a year from now when people decide how the economy changed, that they're comparing their situation to what he promised in 2016. what he promised in 2016 was a trade wars are easy. yet only a couple of hours ago he announced a 25% tariff hike on china. he has promised a number of things economically to individuals that he's lying about and i really hope that the people in -- whether it is michigan or pennsylvania or ohio, can look at it and say he has not kept his promises and said that to con us. he is a grifter. i don't trust him because he's not come true and that's the key whether or not his lies overwhelm the facts and unfortunately something he's pretty good at. >> we'll see if there's a democratic presidential contender seizing on that. at the sentencing, the judge

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maria butina who pleaded guilty to conspiracy to act as an unregistered agent of the russian government is now in prison. a us district judge sentenced

her to 18 months and credit for 9 months served. a sentencing memo filed by the u.s. government says from approximately 2015 to 20178 under the direction of a russian government official butina provided key information about americans in a position to influence american politics. it also states that she took steps to establish an unofficial line of communication between russia and these americans. memo notes that she was quote not a spy in the traditional sense or, quote, a trained intelligence officer. but that her actions had the potential to damage the national security of the united states. joining me on set, the attorneys for maria, robert driscoll and alfred kerry. thank you both for being here. so, robert, let me start with you. feel free to jump in. do you dispute what the judge said in this filing? how would you characterize what maria butina did? >> what she did is peace-building activities and

she acted as an agent. she pled guilty. we don't run from that. the only thing she did as an agent were all peaceful, noncriminal activities. so essentially if she filed a piece of paper everything she would have done is legal and the government conceded that. i would dispute the government's argument brought up the last minute that she provided valuable information to russia because they had 12 terrabytes of information and didn't present it at the sentencing and concluded that. they said she was an agent and not sure what it means but didn't identify she spotted or anyone that was assessed. so when you look at what she did, she went to dinners and she went to public events. and met people. >> so would you dispute the idea that she damaged american national security? >> i would because she didn't really share any information that was classified. bob pointed out that there's 12 terrabytes of information, a

mountain of data, and none of that information is classified. none of it sentencetive. none of it was secret. and in the declaration, he didn't identify anyone spotted or assessed. that would be something that would be important in order to determine if in fact any information was shared with the russian government that was harmful to us. >> and to the contrary, it's actually an interesting vignette from the case, the government doesn't disputd, when she was here as a student she met j.d. gordon at the swiss james and gordon was the trump campaign eastern europe and russia policy guy. >> right. >> she met him and they went to an styxx concert and i think met at a birthday party and then never followed up with him at all. and there was no evidence in the 12 terrabytes of data his name ever communicated to the people she was in touch with in russia

who were old friends from the gun rights days and if this was the mission in the united states it sure is strange that you would think someone like j.d. gordon would be ground zero for a russian agent. i also have a personal problem with the government's brief. you read from it. where they said she wasn't an intelligence agent or spy in the traditional sense. i mean, this's kind of a smear. they acknowledge she wasn't an intelligence agent, she didn't work for russian intelligence. to say you're not a spy in a traditional sense is like me calling alfred like a felon in a traditional sense. it is not a compliment. you know what i mean? it's conceding he is not a felon and kind of suggesting there's something there. >> you mentioned friends in russia. can you explain her relationship with alexander torshin? >> he was a met of hers and met him through the gun rights activities there in russia. he became a mentor.

they would drafl to the u.s. to attend some nra events. he was already a member to the nra. and side note, like i'll point out there a es a time she got business cards here that she asked him if she could make and she asked him if it would be for her to list that she was a personal assistant to torshin. she did that because during one of the trips to the usa there was an uncomfortable moment when she was asked one hotel room or two an she wanted to be known for her intellect, got her gender and asked to have this business card that named me as personal assistant and he said, yes, that's fine but it was made up. it was phony and it was only so she would not have to these uncomfortable moments of being related to him in a more romantic kind of way. >> why did she take the plea if it's above the board? >> the law -- this is something i wish the people would look at beyond this case. the law is incredibly vague and all she has to do is act as an

agent while she is here and doesn't say if you have to do anything in particular so, for example, i noticed an earlier guest katty kay is a foreign national in this country who works at the direction of a foreign official. the only thing preventing her from being prosecuting is prosecutorial disgregs. the government takes the view, i asked in the plea negotiations, are you contending anything she did was unlawful aside from the failure to register, they said, no, we don't have to. for any foreign national here -- >> katty kay is working as a journalist. if you look at what she was doing and trying to make the connections, it is not -- it's not apples to apples. >> you know, she's not a journalist but, i mean, again, a lot of it is the language of the government or the media frankly chooses to use. some people say she infill yated the nra. she became a member and went to public events. like you or i could do or anyone

else. she met people. had a dinner at bistro b. it was written about in the american conservative magazine. attendees were known. there's nothing covert that happened at all. and i understand why the government looked into it. given the circumstances in which it occurred and the time frame but clearly by the end of it, by the sentencing, i would have thought they would have had more if there's something there than they did and speck lattive phase and disappointing to us. >> what happens when she goes to russia? >> she will be her family and been desperate to go home for many, many months now and it was a real burn for her to have to be told she has to spend nine more months in jail. >> all right. robert, alfred, thank you very much for coming on tonight to talk about her perspective. still to come here, two men who have never been front-runners, suddenly getting the front-runner treatment in the 2020 democratic primary.

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joe biden has been enjoying something that he's never had before. status as front-runner. and so, when he said this on wednesday people took notice. >> china is going to eat our

lunch. come on, man. they can't even figure out how to deal with the fact that they have this great division between the china sea and the mountains in the east. i east -- i mean in the west. they're not bad folks, folks. but guess what? they're not competition for us. but here's where we are. we're in a situation where right now, we have not only the strongest military in the world, we have led not by the example of our power, but by the power of our example. >> biden has since clarified what he meant saying that if we invest in the right way, the u.s. will be able to handle china, but he was pummelled by republicans, including mitt romney and president trump and bernie sanders had something to say about it as well. >> i happen to believe that our trade policies over the years have been a disaster for workers in this country. joe is a friend of mine, we will

have this policy discussion in a very civil way. but joe voted for nafta, he voted for pntr. add those two trade policies together, you are probably talking about the loss of more than four million jobs. by the way, a race to the bottom in this country where many employers lowered wages and threatened their workers if they didn't like that they would move to china or to mexico. >> first of all, how big of a mistake is something like this for joe biden on trade? >> i take him on his word when he walked it back. but this shows this is somebody for the first time someone is paying attention to what he said. he's run for president twice, but he never got above one or two percent before. it also shows he's using outdated talking points. this is somebody who hasn't been on a national stage for a few years now. you can tell he looks a little shaky when he's out there. >> this biden/bernie dynamic is very interesting to me because

it seems as though that's how this 2020 shape is shaping up. >> yeah. i mean, watching bernie, i'm reminded of the saying everything before the but doesn't make a difference. i have a feeling that their friendship whatever it is now isn't going to last. >> do we think they were friends? >> i don't, no. i just assume whenever says we were friends but, that they weren't friends. but i think bernie, you know, reporting is that bernie has decided to right off the bat draw a contrast, which i think is smart. the biden remarks, he has walked it back. going to give him the benefit of the doubt about didn't articulate it well. but the problem he has there is, you know, bernie is right to be scared of biden. and the question is will the contrast bernie makes on issues like that, on trade where biden says, oh, it is not a big deal, is that going to be enough to pull biden's numbers down where

people don't care that maybe biden is the best shot against trump? >> so basically the question, kimberly, is how much does a mistake like that hurt him because other democrats will take advantage of his mistakes. >> joe biden making a verbal gaffe, unbelievable. who saw that? and i think this -- yes, this is still early. but he's still getting all the momentum, all the recognition. i was in the midwest, and people who i was with from teenagers to older people to republicans were saying, well, it is too early, but, you know, i will take a look at biden, so he has this momentum. but for bernie sanders, i think that it may not be the best idea. i might disagree with you to say i'm going to focus on biden. there are half a dozen people who are -- have really strong showing in this. yeah, there are 2,000 people running. but there are people who are fund-raising and orange sooiz i. for the older white guy just to

focus on the other older white guy is a problem, particularly when getting voters of color is really crucial for the democrat. >> that's an important point that bernie forgets. when you reason against hillary clinton, you might vote for her. bernie might attack biden and i'm going to go vote for warren or kamala. that's something bernie has to find, you know, a balance of that i don't think he has so far. >> all right. when we return, what to watch for in the week ahead. to watch for in the week ahead. and out. like those from buddy. live claritin clear. for one week only, save up to $31 on select claritin products. check this sunday's newspaper for details.

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this week, the universe lost a pilot, mentor and friend boast known for his performance at chewbacca and hans solo's most trusted sidekick. he reprized the role in 2005 for revenge of the sith and shared the suit in 2014. standing at 7'3", mayhew was a touring force onset. he lived with respiratory and mobility issues, often using a wheelchair to get around. the family has not yet shared the cause of his death. he died tuesday at his home in texas.

he was 74 years old. may the force be with you. we're going to go and ask all of our folks here what to watch for the week ahead. but first i want to show as a tribute to mr. mawhew, this is kimberly atkin's dog that had his hair grown out in that photo, which i love. all right. quick rip around. what are you watching? >> i'm keeping an eye on how republicans react to president trump saying he does not want bob mueller to testify. before they had been saying, no, of course, bring him out. it's great. we'll see if they will take that turn now that the president has and it could put some of them in a tough spot. >> as a former house guy, i'm looking at house republican intrigue. a senator from wis not running again. >> i think whether or not joe biden announces week long money

numbers the way bernie said. if he had big numbers like he did the first couple of days, it will be interesting. >> i'm watching those negotiations over getting mueller to testify on capitol hill. that does it for us tonight here on kasied.c. for now, good night from washington. are you all ready to make a ruckus? >> this is a seismic uprising and took the capital by storm. >> he's not in the capital. he's not in the floor of the senate and 800,000 people don't have their paychecks so, where's mitch? >> they're confused. they're bewildered by her. >> alexandria ocasio-cortez has riled critics on both sides of the aisle. >> sometimes we call her the architect of chaos. >> the president should not be asking for more money to an