with us woo vont set here in new york mike barnicle. national security columnist "the dad of expertise." >> so here's the deal. you have a background, an equestrian background. >> i do. >> were you watching the derby? >> oh, my gosh. steve is quite the rider. five foot jumps. >> so my dad is from kentucky. this was like the big day of the year. he'd always wake us up at like 5 in the morning. first saturday in may, derby day! like it was the day. so it always kind of special. and we were crowded around watching it and, man, what a

race! first of all, very nervous. it was a muddy track. 22 horses out there. a that makes moo nervous as hell. it makes all of us nervous from what we've seen in the past in horse racing what do you think, steve? was it interference? two questions. was it interference and should they have taken the derby championship away from the best horse on the track? >> it was a fluke. it doesn't happen often where the jockey does something and this is a case of a horse jump ing a puddle, which horses do. sometimes they go through it, sometimes they jump it and the result is history. i don't think they had much choice unfortunately. >> mike. >> well, the first thing that strikes you is how dangerous horse racing can be in a situation like that. i mean, blocking another horse,

impeding the progress the or interesting is horse racing going o eventually go the way of boxing and it going to be a secondary sport. >> you know what's going on a santa anita where over 20 horses have died. revisions need to be done around some of these sports. >> you look at this and, again, 22 horses on a day with conditions like this, you're looking for trouble. mika, i we stand that you think horse racing is cruel so we've gotten that out of the way. no, because we'd be going until

7:15. what do you this i about hnk ab race was called? >> i think they did the right thing. if you have horses crossing over in front of other horses, somebody's going to get killed. >> let kb g to mub -- let's go to mike right now. my attitude went along with the nbc announcers. this is the kentucky derby. forget the instant replay, the winner is the winner. maximum security was the bernie sanders horse, no doubt about it, give it to maximum security. but the more you saw it. it want just that another horse almost fell down because of it, it was then the veer left at the end that actually cut.

>> what do you think? was it a close call? >> i think it was a claes call, joe. wf year we call this the most exciting two minutes in sports, the derby and the next 22 minutes that came after the rule was decided. this it's pretty clear that that's what happened. i thought steve was going to give us a call or a graph on the m mud. >> i mean, "war of will" could have very easily gone down. war of will had the beef when starting to make the charge when country house was not interforward with. war of will was.

>> yeah, the people that i talked to in the business said the only thing that bothered them was the oaf fending horse didn't issue the complaint and other horses did. if you watch it, this want -- the horse swerved in front of war of will. you're either going to have these rules or you're not going to to have them. i thought made on a terrible day, i think theyin force the rules properly. >> you know what's interesting -- at least it interesting to me -- is that horse racing up a dq in

different can be different in stan the owner of maximum security is thinking about filing a protest, an appeal, which could teak weeks. again, i think you're right. i think the thing that bothered me the most which was the and that thclaiming any any way the were interfered with. >> and again, joe, you're either going to call it or not call it.

everybody who says, well, maximum security was going to win the race, you don't know that. i was watching it in realtime and without sound, okay? and i knew something that had happened. i didn't quite know what. then when you see the replace, that horse changed lanes and i think hurt war of will's chance to maybe win the derby. >> hurt war of wills' chance, did not hurt country mouse's chance. we're stillnd .500 but feeling a little better about ourselves. >> father barnicle knows the most interesting this evening that happened offer the weekend in chicago is the red sox had a huge run difference coming into the weekend. they made it up in like two games and now their run

differential is zero. i think that the ai always said rs year nothing matters in april. i said you know what, it just doesn't matter. it's the same thing with how the red sox started this year. it just doesn't matter. all my damager fans were i think can japan it always averages out. i iti would tell you to maybe conclude this portion of the program. i have never seen -- i can't recall seeing a sustained

assault from an offense of team, red sox up at bat, with two outs the off without would be with t without -- all right. >> we're going to have mike tirico of nbc sports. our top story -- president trump is reversing course on robert mueller. last friday he remembered. it was so long ago. he said it would be up to attorney general whether the. bob mueller should not testify.

no redoes for the dems! and later, they have stole i don't know two years of my, who are pud. it's interesting -- >>on in the going to get that time back reading that tweet. >> no, you won't. . you i doesn't score but frm mueller was a paint paul aguy.

i.d. ychl grchlt prchl he was been afraid of him. he was too scared to go up across the table and testify and now he's afraid to even let robert bar barr is so twisted that he wants roy carr. us the vgs went satly every time he says this, the warl stwrchlt robert mule are is going to say? >> and the wall stroot journal poll says 60% of americans think that donald trump has not been honest. 60% believe he has not been

truthf truthful. he's got a lot to be afraid of. >> and it's a majority of the country. if the president is confide confidentbecause is the asnrm as a former republican, as a guy that still believes that russia needs to be checked, that we need to balance our coverage, the things that conservatives have always believed in and we still believe in but republicans and donald trump don't. can you believe these people who were just beclaup but now

there's sop people but that i can't before them anymore. that are going out in. >> it's in the call. i went the mattresses on this over afrd over again. now i'm going to chang moo mind n. the trump administration is

defending its efforts to fightp and that the russia president for first rofrt released. >> p. >> reporter: mr. president, could you address the election edling, us that it started off a and. . so pretty muches that what it was. >> reporter: mr. president, did you tell them not to meddle in the next election? >> excuse me, i'm talking. eem answering this question. n new. did you -- we didn't discuss

that. really, woo didn't discuss it. >> why doesn't the president get tough with putin on whoo everyone seems to agree is clar, meddling in 2016 and the threat of meddling in 2016? >> however on rash than any of i itsto go large defense. and for you to suggestion we haven't it and election earn feerns you're looking at an administration that has been if you haveand in the fact in the

information he doesn't even meddling in 2020. in. >> i talk to leaders all the time. we cover a broad range of subjects. sometimes conversations aren't long enough to include any of everynd will to to so. >> i actually spoke with mike momio before he went in to talk to donald trump. i am so sorry i did. what an absolute fool he makes of himself every time he opens his mouth. what a fool he has made of himself on north korea, what a fool he is making of himself. and how disgraceful, mike, that he acts shot and accuses chris wallace of misleading the viewers? he is beneath contempt.

he should be ashamed of himself. he's doing a disservice to mek. he saw what happened in helsinki. he heard what happenedon that telephone call. when he was in the cia, he had to go testify and testify that there was russian interfoorns and this posed a risk to the united states of america. and that bumbling stupid act that be he did on fox news, insult being chris wallace -- >> and the viewers. >> and the viewers. it's just disgraceful. mike pompeo issin wort iunworth any public office in the rest of his life. and day traders, donald trump is going to be out of office in a year and a half and he's going to be sitting at home because he's disgracing himself every day, attacking mike wallace and

attacking the viewers. >> this is part of a plan. key phrase many people think in what he said, what we just heard is something that robert mueller -- he calls him mueller -- is something that robert mueller wrote down. >> he was talking about donald trump shaming himself in helsinki, donald trump talking -- not bringing up election interference with his own department of homeland security said it was a threat to american democracy and he didn't bring it up with vladimir putin. >> we don't yet know what happened with helsinki. there was no note taker. >>he took a very good question with chris wallace and he did the same thing on two other networks and he pivoted and

started talking about mueller. the question had nothing to did with mueller. pompeo and the president chose not to ask putin about. >> there really aren't people that are so stupid, are there, that they watched that performance and believed anything he said? nobody is that stupid, are they? i do not believe that. i do not believe there are any americans that are so stupid that they would be watching that show and be thrown off -- that is something when i was 5 years old, my brother when she was 8 and my sister when she was 11, they would put their hands behind their back and say pick a hand, i know no american is stupid enough to believe that. >> any time it comes down to russia and the election, you pivot to mueller and you hold up this rorschach blot and say this is the mueller report. >> so you pivot to a report,

steve, where 60% of americans think donald trump is a liar, where 60% of americans say he's hiding something on russian interference? six out of ten. >> but trump has always played to his base on this. up know tha-- you know that. if you had a report that 60% of the people thought you did something wrong, would you talk about it? no, you wouldn't talk about it. he talks about it all the time. somehow he thinks if he makes his 40% of the base happy, it turns into a reelection. >> the cards they're playing are totally predictable when you look at the nature of this guy in the office. you get this report, bob mueller, bob mueller, bob mueller. you're not sick enough about bob mueller? send a carrier group to the middle east. >>even a carrier group to the

middle east, they had already planned those exercises. >> saber rattling. >> yet it was planned -- >> i don't think they were planning this exercise a month ago. >> for two years the administration counted on the reality that the base believesing in the president seas. the president is i think some that they can't go on google and see a month ago they were planning these -- >> is this a trick question? >> i don't know if if they're stupid. >> you can't believe it and not be stupid. so i don't think at the believe it. >> organization boy. >> i'm not going to sit here and say they're stupid up. >> know who is stupid? it the president who is stupid. he thinks 40% of the country can reelect him and 40% cannot

reelect him. >> but 40% can insulate hmm against period, the airport says the flight returned about a half an hour after take-off after the crew reported an unspecified malfunction, which caused the fire. foot and shows the plane coming to a halt and people jumping from the plane. it is aware of reports of death of one u.s. citizen but did not elaborate. >> it's impossible to tell from a video, what could that be? >> don't get on russian planes. i'm serious. i don't know what it could be

but russian planes were notoriously unsafe. if that is. >> a malfunction in the hair? what would cause something to blow up like that? >> why do you say that about russian planes? with our standards, with our engineering, with our quality. we've had littially zero commercial crashes or an a plan in this country in a plane that we made. they just don't know how to make them the way we know how to make them. they don't expect or even seem to want the same safety standards. their view is if gets up in the air most of the time and town on the ground most the time, woor

doing okay. >> really quickly since we opened the door, let's talk about boeing really quickly. news breaking this weekend that doesn't look good for the company on the 737s. >> they have made every mistake you could make pretty much in certifying a new plane and trying to cut corners. >> is it just arrogance? >> i don't know. classic case of pressure from the top, we've got to get this plane in the area, we got to get it going. this is boeing company didn't share information about a problem with a cockpit safety alert for about a year before issue drew attention they had enormous liability here.

there as no bought about that. >> all right. for tackling the shooter, -- >> when the shooting started, he ran straight at the gunman to knock him off his feet. in a single second something within someone like this young

man, character, courage,all comes to the core. and in j he will be buried with mull military honors. but we are honored to have him and many, many others among us. >> tom. >> it tells you something about the heroes among us and also the hid i don't know dangers among us, that these are two young men on the same campus and it turns out that one of them is a young man of incredible bravery whose care ter is revealed in a split second and the other was this life today. >> unfortunately i hate to be that mess mitchic that early in morning. >> well, that's what we do here.

donny deutsch fills us in on that. but first let's go to bail karins. begin that whats that ale will too close. at last it was outside the window. this is or boy in beach. this almost looks like the stop si sign. ? >> this was yesterday afternoon. >> a couple days before it was -- >> yeah, it's that time of year in florida. >> remarkable down there. boynton beach. >>ia, beautiful. let's go back to our storms. obviously let's let -- the pattern has been storms in the middle of the country, then the

east coast gets it on the weekend. we're going to do that again. severe weather today, 5 million at risk in kansas and areas of oklahoma. tomorrow we'll have about a million people. by the time get to wednesday, did i mention the stormy weather. on friday it comes back to the east coast. this will be four fridays in a row with wet weather up and down the eastern sea board. in new york city, dealt with on friday, and nen on sunday in the northeast. it going ♪ ♪

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i'm friendly with michael cohn and i got you guys together at my home a couple months ago to talk to him about what to expect because obviously he's freaked out, as he should be. and i was so taken with what you did for him and the way you kind of got him to a much calm are place. what did you tell him? >> what he did is not who he is. he made some mistakes, he's going to pay the price. you know, he has to own what he did. i this i that's helpful in his short this thing about club med and all that, the pop talk about that stuff. it's just not true. it's a very heart breaking, loan experience. >> wow. that was saturday night politics with donny bouch.

trumble report ot medical bewho will tax evasion and lying to congress. cohen could be a targeting of bullying, harassment or worse for hi for the prs a pro tbt so, donnie, first of all,fch ffrm john oo was very good. >> and your steve mad on.

>> you're laying towns abouton test ament to your intervow that you just kept going and kept going. that he spent time with you -- >> yeah. >> and ask the feds to let him go early because who just wand to get out. there. and the door closes behind you and it going to be something. >> i spent time with meek el and the dibefore, let's roo mind ourselves first, let's not.

someone passed away and people come and sit chiva. people were there and pop are try toing and he actually ironically and is kond. sfchlt you go to a medium prson for self hours when you're you'llly in (to the minimum facility, (and it looks that your new life. and he get a hoose.

where two points -- or a month. so it's like literally you have points of who can visit, who cannot visit. he's allowed to tks. there's an app there. and also the frustrating thing up until yesterday, the nad already folks are still all -- can you get this document, can you hand us this? he's like, guys, i'm going to jail. if you want me to come out and help you, i canonce given he made hiss mistakes and he's going to may p for them. >> unlook on fox and van mr. will are.

he's still become himself had district new york. i don't know why he didn't go all the way in for deal that would have helped him get a lit are as soon as al together repatted mhis lawyer isn't him a h hadmmm. he is lawyer calm back, called cohen and said you need to come in with your wife tomorrow and that are going to lay out all charges and you need to plead guil

guiltythey knew wapd. >> what would the southern district tell you? >> i think there was evidence of courtrooms. they had him. they had tax records, they had evidence of these checks paid to pay off a woman. >> but isn't that that why they have trump for thement he leaves office? >> tlrt so near will of kick f when this sense and hngs. michael cohen clearly had an extended pouredin the as someone who kmchl max nationals for last

fo where the prz's company retained for co i don't know's lool bill of a opinion they f. in and what steve maddon said itnd, it brilliant. it doesn't just apply to people who fet to. glory of god. and what who said -- what g man told imwas this -- that when go in there and it finally hits you that you're in there because you screw p screwed up -- if you do

that, you can leave like steve maddon did, strong ares ifically, strong are mentally, strong are spiritually. but then he said there are the other guys that went in there that are like going, hey, i'm framed, i shouldn't be here. those guys leave just as broken and just as bad as when they got in there. you thought that was remarkable and i thought it was great watching is mat michael is going

i can't blame donald trump. i made the doo sises. i of i'm going to stop point sfchl he's got to stop blaming donald trump. each committed the crimes! >> that's going to be a personal journey for meek el. i hope he comes out of other side better, stronger believe hi hill. >> how as it hand he said to her i want to be the same guy coming out. and his son who is here from

college. we went tln what he did to he is family. you know, you see and we s seesaturday they the this evening don oo deutsch, we'll be watching saturday fight politics if and still ahead, president trump isahead of a final round track hack. that is next on "morning joe." "

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amid the president's wave of new threats, sources tell cnbc that china made may back out of a final round of trade talks that are scheduled to take place in washington this week. let's bring on brian sullivan. markets around the world are seeing heavy losses on this latest developments. what are the chances talks gare in tact.

our futures indicating a 500-point drop at the open. the market was thinking we're going to get some kind of a deal. these trump sweeps and the pro expects of peacekeeper because chinese does not like to be backed into a corner as well, which is what the president's peers to be doing. we're talking about 15% higher on the 200 billion. so about a $30 billion increase in the amount of tariffs. keep in mind, i know tariffs are confusing. tariffs are a tax. if joe ships something to me and joe is overseas and he ships me something, i pay the tariff. >> you know, that's the thing, though, it's not confusing to anybody except the president of the united states who in tweets is bracing about all the money that's he got kwen any third grader -- mean not third grader but a smart third grader would know just what you said, tariffs

are taxes ares. >> well, there's also the new round of tariffs. that's new. >> that's what i'm saying. he wants to tax them federal budget more. 25% is a massive attack on america americans. >> and you would know about whether this will work or not. the but ifthen maybe the manufacturers will make the cheap stuff overseas will bring that manufacturing back to the united states and therefore

employ people in wish began, wisconsin, ohio and pennsylvania. wouldn't stay the trade the as we got close are to the markets because dlt is we don't made to condition can and build ma if a

n because it creates a higher bryce um brel what. so at president himself is doing? at ne level. wall it. >> reporter: china is our sing biggest competitor. they steal our intellectual property. we do into. meyering the ba dziuk off o-work

for badly. vom has been questioned this haven't opinion n. the prz is going to say it, people in most states are going to believe it. he's going to say this will happen. even at people were being put on jobs, the president must know what he's doing. >> but they're going to see prices go up. . we put tariffs on washington machine. you can show a chart on it. >> up next, of a his own as conditi

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the the mission is very clear. the president has laid down require minutes for the russians, they have to leave and they have to take down the signs in support of premier submario. there are indications that trump was asked not to lead and the prince came who homs.

vanz and oo is not looking. frmtd what dozen hugh maul when huz saws huss nod looks to kbud of ginvolved. >> hoose secretary of state. . >> you're secretary of state. you don't know? you go on one channel and you call chris wallace a liar and then you go on nor and you plead ignorance. good, buddy. i hope you're proud at yourself. at the ton of the hour, we n b c

the staet department did a balan balance. >> also with us, form are chief of staff of the cia and department of defense, now an nbc information so krs kpr bolton says we're going o be notch woor going to sit in some roo leaf aid. the secretary of state seas that putin is involved in venezuela. donald trump says no, no, not involved. what the hell is going on? >> it's incoherence. i lived this when i was working in the trump administration. john bolton says we're staying in earia nn l until the iranians would leave earia, which prbs

from. >> according to the president. >> isn't this something that john spent his entire adult life fright frnk the instancy in the world sfrm snm the, tend (sfm the pop are counting on the

united states. nm the whol thing shifted to carrier group moving to middle east, which it seemed to be naturally going anyway. >> going that way anyway, it had been planned for a month. but let's go back o john bolton. is this guy -- i don't want to take words out of your mouth but is this guy the baghdad bob of the trump administration? >> they says because they know they can't be met with out the use for frcht and in venezuela it's a regime chang policy. >> el with, that's the policy but you actually have donald trump allowing the iranians to spread their influence across the middle east and into sear why and.

everybody. he is speaking for all of us as a country, state thanks and declaring objectives that a areteal msflptd they see us as their enemy. we are their enemies. you can say the this evening about harshbarger if and lou

allowing bt this to. >> useful for foreign policy. i don't think it's a very good world view but it's a coherent world view. >> i have to add north korea. donald trump continues to allow nk snm accident fwn sfrchl senior the ranges in the strugs, it be i will justice throw in everything believe in f foreverybody bloof in and skr going with what president sass. et interesting o point out that

chinese and vnznch snp (and woo have a prz who can palace can p pop. in nm and, by the way, drpt goes back to about flb trpt on the fwlochlt about russian interfoorns in vnz? about russian interference in syria? trump as totally fine with it, with the russians interfering in our hemisphere. north korea. oh, my god, if barack obama were

allowing the north korean dictator to run mrk's nose in dog you know what? impeachment proceedings would begin and they'd be getting to the football. they got a missile that will -- that will nuclearize aum what! and it is a threat to a half and he's gl a -- letter that they are in a be in the is lack of communications between intelligence agency,and.

in -- when who teams to have his on intelligence agent and johnson bolton has his on policies as well. what are the chinese in venezuela? >> meek, you make a great point. the factual predicate for our policy should be a common understanding of the television are pictured. >> i with hi would say the operating fromif if you hock to

unvariety russia back g-7 blackly in front of all of or. s that a pretty co hoornt with did fblt this time talking about china. tack a look. >> i want to ask you about chinchina taken ne kind of action or shea bang for this in.

>> ghchl he should give camps. >> he fch you've seen my personally speak out about the same situation, you're describing, this number, certainly up to a million people held in reeducation camps. the trump administration is going to held -- >> you're o kur with that? is there a des krep is he within the strags about what to do about this and what's happening? >> no, there isn't. don't play particulary tack. >> concentration camp is a loaded term, is and 3 million muslims being rounded up is

somethi something. mrk's secretary of state compared one million people. he called that ticky tack. 3 million people in concentration camps, the secretary of state sass that's ticky tack. so that's what he did to margaret brennan on cbs, accused her of playing, quote, ticky and then he calls chris wallace liar, seas he's misleading viewers when actually he's not. and then he pleads ignorance and

venezuela? the floor is yours. >> there's a crisis within our national security system. there's not a process that is harnessing all the expert god. i don't think wants options. pao and it's a conflict i don't think president trump wants, an issue like china is an extremely difficult one. i think at the krs and american values in. in he kept transforming the truth right in front of this interview. >> talk about really briefly the 3 million chinese f china seized

what it ease teased as part of dp with unbelievable monitoring and art fgs intelligence and putting pop up and put them into company n everybody is inviting the man. this is the heart of the muslim world. these countries tho are pr e, woo need to speak because otherwise we're the moral leader of the world.

>> bm let's just tack nchk the russians are in vaz la. the forget about the past 240 years of u.s. industry and then can go it syria, the russians are in sear why now because. so weak on venezuela. he's weak on syria. he's weak when it could.

snp snfrm pass down passenger airliners. i mean, this is -- again, i say that somebody pb oh moo god! i would love to run against a democrat that was this week, that was this flaccid, that was this -- this impotent in foreign policy! it would be a 49-state landslide! i seriously can't believe how weak donald trump is on foreign policy. >> and, joe, it's critical to point out also when the russians attempted to assassinate an individual on the streets of the u.k., that individual was someone who reportedly had

helped the united states in intelligence matters. so in effect, russia was going after one of our own. the president said nothing in a subsequent phone call with vladimir putin didn't even raise the issue. >> he's too scared. >> and here you have these phone calls, meetings, in which the president essentially gives putin a green light. we had in helsinki in with respect to is the -- >> you wonder if this is collusion or is he afraid to bring it up? >> it doesn't matter why. what matters is, tom, the russians are now in our back yard. forget about cuba in 1962, '63. they're now determining who is running venezuela and donald trump is doing nothing about it. >> jeremy added a good amendment

to what i said about trump not having a world view. who has one staconsistent reflection and that is to fear the russians. there was no question about what was said the russian readout of that phone call was pretty direct and pretty much like putin instructing trump, here's what i expect from you. >> and trump saying he smiled. i don't think you can see that on a phone call. >> the russian leader giving the president of the united states orders. in ukraine, in venezuela, across the world. that's what's happening. >> now to the controversy surrounding the results of saturday's rain-soaked kentucky

derby. country house was winner after only the second disqualification. maximum security finished first but was dropped to 17th place as officials ruled the horse interfered with or competitors in the final leg of the race blocking them at being able to pass at 65-1 odds. country house is the second largest upset in history. as gary wells mulls an appeal, he says when you're not going for the triple crown, sometimes it doesn't make sense to wheel the horseback in two weeks. president trump weighed in blaming political correctness

for the disqualification. >> i don't understand that. >> i don't even. >> we'll you know you're busy with your life and it seems to happen to me the first saturday in may every year and then suddenly everybody just stops and says, oh my gosh, the kentucky derby's on! it really is the most exciting two nints sports. tell us what it was like being there calling it and what your thoughts were as this process unfolded. >> you're right, joe. for most of america, if they watch one horse race a year, it is the kentucky derby. it's a huge party. and then the derby end and we move on. but this times it was a 20-minute wait, as you said.

it was very odd. for the first i'd say twoments the race. as it went on, we got the sense they were weighing history because as mika said, they've never had this where they took down a win are because of an enfraction at the -- oo. ? but you start getting closer to 20 minutes ands you were saying and others were. to me at least, but if you could

explain it to me because you know a lot more about it than i do. so country house was not interfered with. >> correct. >> and yet they filed the challenge. how does that work? >> that's what doesn't feel right to a lot of folks. i think everyone watching as well. the simplest way to put this for folks, think of a five-lane highway in a big city. the horse that's now the kentucky derby champ country house was almost in that fourth lane, not touched by the impact coming over but still going. some folks when they see this happen say, wait, someone as got to speak up. the trainer for this horse also had another trainer for is --

the race. even though the 20 horse want as much interfered with ambassador the others, their jockey has the right to bring up the complaint. one of the horses that was impeded, his jockeys a do you worry at all that given what's gone on for the past few months at like santa anita with horses dying and the constant replays from saturday's derby, do you worry at all that horse racing might be joe mentioned it before

the president's tweet and there is a tweet for everything, right? but of note there is certainly an wearness of safety regarding the horse going forward. they know all eyes in the sports world are on the derby. this incident that happened truly did impact the safety of the jockeys and horses involved. i don't want to say public pressure moved it this way but there was certainly an awareness to say we cannot have this unsafe situation in a sport like this. >> thanks so much. >> still ahead, bernie sanders is faceding bod.

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today the national urban league is releasing its annual report on the state of black america. it partners with the brennan center for justice and takes a closer look at the state of the black vote. joining us president of the urban league. good to see you, mark morial. >> this your we're focusing on the supreme court, which in

several bad decisions odd odd russian and its foreign rnt feerns strategy focused on u pressing african-american voters in breath taking, if you will, mag nude. october russiain tended to suppress be tess krnl suede. vrs. >> mr. mayor, did have go? one troll was namd lieu oosia

haynes, a black prcht. >> >> in new hampshire sfchl that pretty much trumpedsfp and that the african-american community was targeted for these messages by bots, by mauks. that state lnl yourself of black

have thes are frrm this is. well known, voter i.d. laws, cutbacks on recall voting, cut back groups from conducting vote are religion administration cam pap frachl and that's been a right the so this is a dynamic pross and we thought woo needed to point this out particularly because the russian role in suppressing the african-american vote has really not been focused on in all the waugssif this roll

in injbting in animating, in poking being if,s what the russians i think had federal court in go nominate talking about the fact that right now donald trump will say and or people supporting donald trump will bring up the fact that unemployment is a low are rate now than. >> and between. it became f and has it a nam pa the rate of if flchl f thein

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(drt. >> >> (bump as doing nrngt nurmt -- 15 million of thos jobs were created under president obama. >> and obama is doing better if you just look it numbers. but president obama -- president trump's almost doing as well as barack obama. >> all right. fair enough. >> because you wouldn't no that. ejust want to say as a public service announcement to people in the media who say this is the greatest economy ever and nothing bad mbah a moute we

remember how bad things were in 2008 and twieso temperature what has now happened until. in and if want to go back to president obama, he has some periods of high are real wage growth than president trump did. but lately these last couple of months president trump has actually had some decent, positive real wage numbers. and this is an important number

to watch. with the biggest influence over the lebs. >> and productivity. efficiently, wokking. economies never rahal stand what makes it work. as you can see, it jumps all oaf the place miss torically. but what is noticeable is after a period of relatively flatness, it has started to turn up. if donald trump has any chance of getting 3% growth going forward for the next year and a half, it is going to be to watch this number. >> jfr all, though, what's the unploumt rate? >> 3.6%. >> lowest in 50 years. but if you want a counternarrative, why did it go done last month? because a lot ofi understand

woor concerned about the rule of law, we're concerned about. >> that assad, when federal budget f. >> here's an interesting point you have made yourself, joe, which is that trump is way underwater in his polls, puck in and how trump should is done in the last lks -- >> are you talking about in 16? >> 16. >> trump way underperformed in the popular vote what he should

have done givenful everything else still hurts from me. the democrats can do what they want to do, every time they get pissed off. i'm not saying what m. look at ourof 3 opinion of mch given that. in you tell me you can feel at all snfl for most people they pr soof snch snuch so you have all.

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>> for a second week the final avngers instalt stallment in stores. thank god it the final oneskofr. >> it the second heyest grossing film worldwide with a growing total of $2.2 billion. avitar 2.8 billing. it took 47 games for gav as opposed to it be it was amaze n i am.

flchlt i railroad the day pfs it was released people were complaining about iger's $37 million strategy. as i said that day, i vngers would mack m n and they are going to have avngers and the final installment of star wars, star wars 9, n i like he in n i for give it if n nothing good.

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you guys off and be outside the theater. the thing that avngers figured out in this entire extraordinary money making enterprise all came out of robert downey junior's's joon why is his teaming the fact a pr. and he would stop and it can this. and hoop it is. n and you must have loved brag are in because led up. >> lynn was crucial to mogs. >> so here's the good news. ps f doesn't are the me done.

>> if. you didn't have to pull me into this swags prp you don't want your constituents to in snchl go good. so i guess we'll start this now. one prn in had harr. >> you're talking as long. so congressman within twchl sfwhchlt i guess we can talk

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gad, steve. and n ((((. (once p one you heard nadler talk about and the other known to those who haven't seen "avengers o ". since it hasn't been used in a very long time, but until about the mid 19 50z, congress could actually hold trials, believe permanent it awill yous conditioning (which makes me a

little queasy for all of the. . (. (that we make on n but that of course is a point of leverage that the congress does have. >> so speaker of the house nance oo pep n a flrmt sflfrmt. >> that she does not automatically this the. from election shourmt after.

n (several pop were fwrchlt unless the new hampshiry said, quote, if we win by four sit, by a thousand vote each, he's not going to respect the lk. in. snochlt i totally agree that. congressman, what's your reaction to that? >> first i would say nancy pelosi has not taken poochlt and will not take impeachment off the and n sfchlt you department

f. . n you don't blame nancy pelosi for saying that with the president going into every election implying or said flat out that a result that didn't go his way woulding illegitimate, would be rigged. maybe i'm going r i'm going over optimistic but in the leks election, if the president loses, i would like to believe that people like the supreme court, that members of congress, that senators would recognize that that is the split in the road, that is the fork in the road where the country is deciding whether we will remain a democracy or whether we will become some form of

authoritarian dictatorship? >> there would and judges and others would stand up for their democracy at great long last. >> congressman jim himes thanks so much. senator bernie sanders said he's not here to attack joe biden but in the next breath he attacks joe biden. >> how the vermont senator is looking to create space from the former vp. it's a huge week for the know your value movement particularly for women just starting out their careers and looking to take the next step in their careers. that's where "earn it" comes into play. my new guide book which is out tomorrow. full of important advice for young woman from how to get their foot in the door to finding the best ways to negotiate and communicate effectively. all part of this very jam packed week, joe.

today i'm hosting the may trex awards. tomorrow we're on "the view". on wednesday i'm at the town and country summit. on thursday joe you have a gig. on friday it's the inaugural ascend summit here in new york city. >> you know who i am? i am dennis thatcher. look at this. i'm serious. mika always tells me when i go to these events i need to stay three feet behind her. she always needs to walk hide. sort of like a prince phillip thing except prince phillip never carried the queen's purse. >> find out more about all of this at knowyourvalue.com. a great week with a lot going on. >> daniellea, great story. >> talking much more about daniellea co-author of "earn it." we'll be right back. 25% of your mouth.

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i'm not going. like the report said, you know. some days aren't great. as the reporter said, i have a long ways to go. that's our reality. pretty tough to go celebrate when we're where we're at. i rather not go and just, you know, be consistent with everything. >> that's red sox manager alex cora confirming he won't be in attendance with the world series championship red sox go to the white house on thursday. he declined the invite after the white house ignored puerto rico from the hurricane. he joined six red sox players who said they will skip the trip. there's some conservatives on that team. politics is politics. i can see why people don't want

to go. in alex cora's thing, he even after winning the world series, his heart was with his people in puerto rico. i don't know how he can go to the white house. >> he couldn't. >> i don't know how anybody from puerto rico that has seen what's happened over the past year can celebrate with the president of the united states and the white house while puerto rico is still suffering the way it is. >> he can't go because elended considerable efforts as his popularity as manager of the red sox on the recovery itself. he's gotten amount of money and goods from the united states into puerto rico. >> he's done extraordinary work. >> right. he wrestled with the idea of going and saying something from the podium but good decision of not going. >> it's tough. i one it. i respect the player that go. i respect the players that decide not to go. for alex cora, because of puerto rico, i just don't think it was

possible. still ahead president trump says he spoke about the russian hoax during his call with vladimir putin last week but they didn't talk about election meddling. he also said that he saw somehow p vladimir putin smile on the plane. >> plus michael cohen reports to prison today. donny deutsche joins the conversation after spending time with michael this weekend. "morning joe" back in a moment.

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>> yesterday president trump called vladimir putin to discuss the mueller report and here's how trump described the call. >> we described -- he actually sort of smiled when he said something to the effect that it started off as a mountain and ended up being a mouse. >> i don't know if that metaphor

is more confusing in russian or in trump's english. can we just hear that first part again >> he actually -- sort of smiled. >> he smiled through the phone? >> that's a good question. >> making it up as he goes along. >> welcome to "morning joe". it's monday, may 6th. with us we have on the set here in new york, mike barnicle. mike is here. national security expert columnist at "usa today" and author of the book "the death of expertise." tom nichols. >> every time. and former treasury official and morning gentlemen economic analyst steve rattner is here. let's get to our top story. president trump is reversing course on robert mueller. last friday, if you remember, so long ago, he said it would be up to the attorney general whether the special counsel was the to congress. now he says mueller shouldn't testify at all tweeting

yesterday why would the democrats in congress now need robert mueller to testify? are they looking for a redo because they hated seeing the strong no collusion conclusion and ending bob mueller should not testify, no redo for the dems. and later they stole two years of our my presidency collusion delusion that we'll never be able to get back. >> you know, it's interesting -- >> i might get my time back reading that tweet. >> no you won't. he complains having the first two years stolen after saying it's the two years greatest that any president had. it's like the ref saying the game was stolen from us and that was the greatest game in the history of super bowl. robert mueller, this is a guy who, obviously, donald trump has always been scared of, feared. he's feared.

resented. i don't know if you know this, mueller was a st. paul's guy then he went to princeton. then he went to uva law school. >> more importantly went to vietnam. >> went to vietnam. >> served. >> was a marine hero. i mean he's the antithesis that donald trump has been in his life and been afraid of him. the too scared to go up across the table and testify though he said he wanted to. now he's afraid to even let robert mueller speak because bob barr is so twisted mueller's words and intent that he wants roy cohen to have the last word. >> it's stunning, right? on the one hand the president said i've been totally exonerated, it's great, the investigation went exactly the way i wanted it to. don't ask bob mueller a thing. what is he afraid -- every time he says this the natural

question, a normal human being asks the question, what do you think robert mueller is going to say? why your so concerned? >> "wall street journal" poll says 60% of americans think donald trump has not been honest. 60% believe he's not been truthful in the russian interference election. he has a lot to be afraid of. >> nonetheless a majority of the country and if the president is this confident in the fact that this exonerated him, i think you're right, i think barr did him no favors because barr set that narrative early on but did that as though no one would ever read anything else that would ever come out and that just blew up in his face. >> as a former republican, as a guy who actually still believes russia needs to be checked, we need to balance our budget. the things that conservatives have always believed in and that

we still believe in, but republicans for donald trump don't. can you believe these people who are just clowning themselves -- seems like they were always ashamed to defend donald trump directly, so it was ant anti-anti-trump rhetoric. but now people are going out and defending the honor of barr and there's no defense. the man has lied before congress once. he should be impeached. yet you have some of our former esteemed colleagues defending william barr. >> political cost at this point. what are they going to do? at what point do they turn and say okay everything they said for two years, all the doubling down they did all the defenses. i went to the mattresses on this over and over again and now i'm

going change my mine. same thing happened with that phone call with vladimir putin which to me was helsinki level bad. >> let's talk about that. >> the trump administration is actually defending its efforts to fight russian election meddling following the president's one-on-one phone call with vladimir putin. trump revealed friday that he had spoken with the russian president for the first time since robert mueller's report was released. but the subject of moscow's interference was not discussed. >> mr. president, did you address the election meddling issues that came up in the mueller report with mr. put in today? >> he smiled when he said it started off as a mountain but ended up as a mouse. he knew that. he new there was no collusion whatsoever. >> mr. president, did you tell

him not to meddle in the next election. >> excuse me. i'm talking. i'm answering this question. you are very rude. we had a good conversation about many things. >> did you tell him not the meddle in the next election? >> we didn't discuss that. >> why doesn't the president get tough with putin what everybody seems to agree is clear meddling in 2016 and threat of meddling in 2020? >> chris, this administration has been tougher on russia than any of its predecessor administrations. i can go through the list. there's not time in the show to talk about. our defense buildup. the list is long, chris. for you to suggest that somehow we haven't taken election interference seriously, but we do. >> i guess what i'm asking and i take your point in terms of specific policies -- >> chris, i don't get your point. i'm confused. the administration has been tougher on russia than any of

its predecessors and yet you're fixated on something robert mueller wrote. i struggle with that. >> i'm not fixated about robert mueller. i'm fixated on the president's conversation with vladimir putin and in the conversation he doesn't even mention meddling in 2020 and the question i'm asking, i think it's a legitimate one, a lot of people are asking it, sir, is why not? >> i talk to leaders all the time. we cover a broad range of subjects. sometimes conversations aren't long enough to cover every issue that might be brought up. i'll let the white house talk to what the president said. no one should misunderstand from your question today, your viewers should not be misled. this administration has taken seriously the threat of election interference. >> i actually spoke with mike pompeo before he went in to talk to donald trump. i am so sorry i did. what an absolute fool he makes of himself. what a fool he's made himself of

north korea. and how disgraceful -- how disgraceful, mike, that he acts shocked and accuses chris wallace -- >> of misleading. >> -- of misleading viewers. he's beneath contempt. he should be ashamed of himself. he's doing a disservice to the united states of america. he saw what happened in helsinki. he heard what happened on that telephone call. when he was in the cia he had to go testify and testify that there was russian interference and it posed a risk to the united states of america. and that act that he did on fox news, insulting chris wallace. >> and viewers. >> and the viewers, just disgraceful. mike pompeo is unworthy to hold any public office for the rest of his life and put him at the top of the list of day traders who don't understand donald trump will be out of office in a year and a half and he'll be

home, sitting at home because he's disgracing himself every day, attacking chris wallace, attacking fox news sunday and attacking the viewers. >> the there's a school of thought, when we listen to that, when you look at the transcript there's a coastline thought that indicates this is part of a plan. part of a plan. key phrase, many people think and what he said, what we just heard is something that robert mueller, something that robert mueller wrote down. so they have a sustained assault at every level of this administration. >> he wasn't talking about robert mueller, he was talking about donald trump. and donald trump shaming himself in helsinki. donald trump shaming himself, talking, not bringing up election interference with his own department of homeland security person said it was a threat to american democracy. and he didn't bring it up with vladimir putin. >> we don't yet know what

happened in helsinki. we don't yet know. there was no note taker. >> the point is on this call, he took a very good question from chris wallace and he did the same thing on two other networks yesterday and pivoted. started talking mueller. the question wasn't with mueller, the question had to do with russian election interference which has been established and pompeo and the president didn't ask putin about. >> there aren't people that are so stupid that they watch that performance and believed anything he said? nobody is that stupid, are they? >> yes. >> i don't believe that. i do not believe there are any americans so stupid that they would be watching that show, that they would be thrown off. that's something when i was 5 years old my brother when he was 8 and my sister when she was 11 would like put things behind their back and pick a hand. i know no adult was stupid enough to believe that. >> but this is misdirection.

any time it comes down russian involvement in the election you pivot to mueller and hold up this rorschach block and say this is the mueller report. >> you pivot to a report, steve where 60% of americans think donald trump was a liar. where 60% of americans say he's hiding something on russian interference. six out of ten. >> yes, but trump has always played his base on that. you know that. trump talks about mueller, he brings up mueller all the time. if you had a report that 60% of the people thought you did something wrong, would you talk about it? no. you wouldn't talk about it. he talks about it all the time. somehow he thinks if he makes his 40% of the base happy it turns into a re-election. >> the carl edwards they are playing are totally predictable. when you look at the nature of this guy in the oval office, they are totally predictable. you got the report. bob mueller, bob mueller, bob

mueller. you're getting sick of bob mueller. you're not getting sick enough of about bob mueller how about a carrier group to the middle east. >> even the carrier group to the middle east, they had already planned those exercises. they are saber rattling. and yet it was planned a month before. so even -- >> i think john bolton's statement was planned a month before. >> they are even lying to their base about that. they were planning this exercise a month ago. >> for two years this administration has counted on the reality that the base believes anything that the president says. the president defines their reality. i think this is actually in some -- >> you think the base is so stupid they can't go on google and see a month ago they were planning these exercises. >> is that a question? >> i don't know if they are stupid but they believe it. >> you can believe it and not be

stupid. so i don't think they believe it. >> oh, boy. >> because i'm not going sit here and say they are stupid. you know who is stupid is the president. he thinks 40% can re-elect him. >> 40% can insulate him against impeachment. >> that's what this is really what he's doing. still ahead michael cohen is heading to prison today. what's going through his mind right now? donny deutsch spent time with him yesterday and he joins the table next on "morning joe". (music throughout)

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listen to your mom, knuckleheads. hand em over. hand what over? video games, whatever you got. let's go. you can watch videos of people playing video games in the morning. is that everything? i can see who's online. i'm gonna sweep the sofa fort. well, look what i found. take control of your wifi with xfinity xfi. let's roll! now that's simple, easy, awesome. xfinity xfi gives you the speed, coverage and control you need. manage your wifi network from anywhere when you download the xfi app today. i'm friendly with michael cohen. >> yeah. >> and i got you guys together at my home a couple of months ago to talk to him about what to expect because, obviously, he's freaked out as he should be. i was so taken with what you did for him and the way you kind of got him to a much calmer place. what did you tell him? >> so, you know, it's not -- you

know what he did is not who he is. you know, he made some mistakes. he's going to pay the price. you know, he has to own what de. i think that's helpful in his recovery. it will be tough. ate tough experience. it's not -- you know this thing about club fed and all that, people talk about that stuff, it's just not true. it's just not true. it's a very heartbreaking lonely experience. >> wow. that was saturday night politics with donny deutsch. donny spoke with fashion designer steve madden who served time for securities fraud. michael cohen is expected to report to prison today. cohen is due to report to the federal correctional institution in otisville, new york where he starts his three year sentence for his crimes. a former case manager at the prison tells nbc news cohen

could be a target of bullying, harassment or worse for his cooperation with robert mueller's investigation and other probes and that could make him a candidate for the prison's protective housing unit. trump himself has branded cohen a rat. >> so, donny, first of all, congratulations on the debut of your show. >> it's good. >> saturday night politics. really good. >> mike of good. >> that was good. and the interview was great. you kept asking him, kept going back and you wanted him to tell you what it was like the first time you're lying down in the prison bed staring at the ceiling and he didn't want to go there. and i think it was a testament to your interview that you just kept going and kept going. of course, it's highly personal. that was a riveting interview. that was something that michael cohen is going to be going through now.

and make has just told me some inside news he spent some time with you. >> yeah. >> and asked the feds to let him go early because he just wanted to get out. but he's going in and this is -- door closes behind you and it's going to be something. >> i spend some time with michael yesterday and the day before as did emily. let's remind ourselves first, the majority of why he's going away are things deat the direction, on behalf and benefit of the president and the president is in the white house. he's is going jail. that's not justice. i was there yesterday. there's a jewish ritual when somebody passes away where people come visit. that's what it felt like yesterday because people are there. there were two other couples there. obviously his kids there. people trying to being light and friendly but there's a cloud over there. he actually, ironically seemed more relaxed than i've seen him in two years. he's a fighter and scrapper and

it's over. nothing else he can do. certainly not a sense of relief, but he started to talk to me a little bit of what's ahead of him. you go up there and first thing you go to a medium prison for several hours where you're in a jail. then they give you all your stuff and you walk up a hill for a quarter of a mile with a bag over your shoes and whatnot to the minimum facility which is, they call it a camp. it's not. there are people outside and waving to you. it's like that's your new life. he gates microwave, use of a microwave. ice machine. he gets 12 points a week where two points is where your family gets to visit -- a month. it's like literally you have points of who can visit, who can't visit. he can text. there's an app. also up until yesterday, the nadler folks are still -- we want this, can you get this document, you can hand us this?

guys, i'm going to jail. while i'm in jail you want me to come out and help you, give me a computer that's fine. there's a lot of stuff he still has that they want more than anything. it was just so sad. his kids and once again he made mistakes. he's going to pay for them. but it's tragic. >> emily, he still, because he's michael cohen, he's still trying to work it at the end. i got more stuff. let meadow this. he's trying to make deals. still going back to his deal with the southern district of new york i don't know why he didn't go all the way in for a deal that could have helped him get a lighter sentence or avoid jail all together. but he chose that. >> there were a couple of things happening with the southern district. he had asked repeatedly to meet with the southern district, saying give me queen for a day and i'll tell you everything.

they declined to meet with him until mid-august we would like to meet with you before you hand down these grand jury charges. they called his lawyer the next day after receiving the letter come in tomorrow we'll tell you what we're going charge him with. his lawyer came back, called cohen and said you need to come in with your wife tomorrow and lay out all the charges in front of you and you have until monday to plead guilty or they are going to arrest you. so as much as he wanted to cooperate over the summer they didn't give him a chance to explain what he had done. >> why is that? they knew he wanted to make a deal for a very long time. why didn't they? >> i think there are conflicting explanations for that. if you talk to cohen -- >> what would the southern district tell you. >> i think there was evidence of crime. they had him. they had bank records, tax records, evidence of these checks paid to payoff a woman ten days before the election.

>> don't they have trump? >> trump is an unindicted co-conspirator. michael cohen said it was under the direction of trump. michael cohen won't be able to vote in this coming election, not only because he'll be in prison but because he's not in maine. maine is one of two states that currently allows prisoners to vote while still locked up. nbc's morgan radford went to one prison there to see how that works. she joins us with her new reporting next on "morning joe". everyone's got to listen to mom. when it comes to reducing the sugar in your family's diet, coke, dr pepper and pepsi hear you. we're working together to do just that. bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all. smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels and reminders to think balance.

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tolerate. a question that's sparking heated debate on 2020 campaign trail. should prisoners be allowed to vote while still behind bars. senator bernie sanders advocated it during a recent town hall. rnc chairman called the idea radical. mika and i learned earlier today you can be in jail in maine and still vote. we are changing our residence to maine for a lot of reasons we can't get into right now.

let's bring in right now nbc news correspondent morgan radford who recently went inside maine state prison and spoke to inmates about their efforts to make their voices heard. morgan, what did you find out? >> it was interesting pap lot of people don't realize this law exists in states like maine and vermont. this is a topic that's been generating a lot of buzz on the 2020 campaign trail. bernie sanders is for it. kamala harris is willing to have a conversation about it. we went into one prison in maine how do you feel about this conversation bubbling up to this national level. you may be surprised they are paying very close attention. foster bates has been locked up here in this maximum security prison for 17 years. >> what are your in here for? >> murder. >> you voted in every election since you've been in here. nationwide only two states allow

prisoners to vote. vermont and maine. where felons never lose the right to vote, even while incar certifica incarcerated. bates is the president of a special naacp chapter that he leads with his vice president, also convicted of murder. >> doing what i did, i know i deserve to serve time for that. >> reporter: together they help register other inmates to vote. >> what is this green for >> that's the voter registration application form. >> reporter: with more than 2 million people behind bars the u.s. has the highest prison population in the world. a potential voting bloc bigger than the entire state of new mexico. there's so much life happening outside of these walls. >> yes. >> why do you think it's important to vote from within these walls? >> because we are just as much a part of this country as anyone outside of these walls. because we're inckar secar ceri

should lose my right to vote. >> it's getting a lot of attention. >> i think the right to vote is inherent to our democracy. yes, even for terrible people. >> let terrorists that are in prison vote. i don't think so. >> for diane and jim the issue hits closer to home. >> it was a ring that he had on his finger. >> their 25-year-old son was murdered in 1989. the man convicted of killing him is currently serving 30 years in a maine prison. scheduled to get out just after the next presidential election. >> if you had a message to your lawmakers about this right to vote here, what would you say? >> the only thing i would say is my son didn't get a chance to vote. why would you allow someone that's committed a murder, manslaughter to vote when my son couldn't vote. >> it's an argument that these

inmates understand. >> it's not much you can say to the family as to why this person should vote. but the answer i would give is that you have at some point in time, if that person comes back to society, you want to have a changed person not the person who committed the heinous crime. >> the person who says he's still a citizen even if it's behind bars. what's interesting that naacp chapter they registered to 30 voters back in the 2016 election. they had a record high when obama won back in 2008 and that was 300 registrants. you might be surprised to find out that bates many if not most are republicans and voted for trump. >> mike? >> the interesting thing to me is, and it used to be in massachusetts where prisoners could vote. they shut that down after a furlough program, dukakis

administration. what issues inside motivate inmates who can vote as opposed to issues that affect people in the outside world. >> for those who voted trump, for example, the vice president of that chapter said he voted for trump and been a registered republican all of his life. he said number one it was the economy. he felt especially with mr. trump the economy had a shot. that's what he wanted to see. other than that you can imagine prison reform. it surprised me high on their list were things who voted for the democratic party like mr. bates. he said climate change. education. things that i think will help me once i get outside of the cell block. >> interesting. >> why is it we have two new england states right next to each other only two states out of the 50, any idea? >> i asked that. what was surprising is a lot of residents don't even know that this exists in their state. that's kind of what confused me. there's no telling why. what's interesting is that maine is sort of the most liberal in

terms of their policies. for example, they have a mandatory right to have visitation. the last time somebody tried to overturn this law was back in 2013 from a republican lawmaker. because it's written into their constitution in their state you have to have a referendum. >> concord, massachusetts prison was a minimum security prison. i encouraged a friend of mine to run for selectman in concord. he ran. he used to tell people he had a bloc vote, a cell block. >> thank you so much. nbc's morgan radford, we appreciate you being here. still ahead our next guest said something happened on thursday that felt like the end of checks and balances in america. why he believes we no longer have co-equal branches of government. a lot of people agree with him. keep it right here on "morning joe".

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jerrold nadler said if the justice department doesn't hand over the unredacted mueller report by monday he'll initiate contempt proceedings against -- man just steal the damn report. >> just for reference here's a list everyone democrats have held accountable since trump got elected. ♪ taking care ever business every day ♪ ♪ taking care of business >> i thought it would be longer. okay. that's a little tough. let's bring in our columnist and editor at the "washington post," ruth marcus and "usa today" opinion columnist and former senior adviser for the house oversight and government reform committee. he's out with a new nbc think piece entitled trump's subpoena obstruction of subpoena has fractured the constitution's system of checks and balances. he writes, tuesday, may 22019

felt like the end of checks and balances in america. it was the day that the republicans on the house judiciary committee stood by and supported the executive branch's decision to ignore a lawful subpoena issued by the legislative branch. this executive branch is flagrantly undermining the legislative branch and clearly thinks it can get away with it. thank you so much for being with us. we've known for several years we've been concerned that the idea of madisonian democracy, the checks and balances that the founders put in the constitution were being run over was no more in evidence than last week. >> this is no longer theoretical. it's happening. when i worked at oversight during the obama years and i was on the republican side then. he always believed the president respected our branch of

government. he didn't believe we weren't co-equal or respect the authority or autonomy what's written in the constitution what our oversight powers were. even if they didn't go along with what we wanted to do, at the end of the day they would show up for hearings. they would show up and produce documents. they would give into subpoenas because they respected that authority. that's no longer the case. this is a situation where "the washington post" democracy dies in darkness, this is happening in broad daylight. >> ruth, we've been also saying for a few years our founders always foresaw the possibility of a tyrant rising to be president of the united states but never saw a congress that would be that tyrant's lap dog. not calling donald trump a tyrant and not saying we're facing ten of democracy, but it is stunning to see republicans watch an attorney general lie in

the house of representatives and not give a damn. >> the performance of republicans in congress has been disappointing for months now and there's no reason to expect that to change any time soon. but i think that kurt has an important point he makes in his op-ed but i think might be a little bit too worried -- not too worried but too dire too soon. we do have a co-equal branch of government that is in part in democratic hands, that is asserting itself. and we have courts that can help enforce subpoenas. so we're not -- it's not time to give up on checks and balances but it's really important to understand that this is a grave issue. we spent months worrying about whether the president would fire bob mueller and understanding that that would be a constitutional crisis. this is the president in effect

trying to fire congress by defying subpoenas and insisting people not testify. that would be its own constitutional crisis. congress can't let that happen. >> mike, the problem here is that they are, the trump administration is not answering requests from the oversight committee, from the judiciary committee. they can be held in contempt of congress, but, of course, that will not be enforced by the attorney general who is part of the cover-up operation himself. >> well, you know, this is part of -- if you look at the whole picture, the sustained daily assault on norms of government. and norms of political behavior. it's on such overload. it's a niagara. every day there's multiple assaults on norms that we'veten

granted. eventually it's going to end up in the courts. it's going to go through the court system. eventually it's going to get to the supreme court. and donald j. trump has already had an enormous impact on the supreme court and when that happens could we be looking at a situation where norms that we've taken for granted since the constitution was written is up for jumpball? >> yeah. absolutely. which is why, again, elections have consequences and trump's decision to put different people on the court, it's hard to imagine at least in his mind, we know how transactional he s-in any situation they would rule against what he wants. he doesn't mind if it goes to court. he's rooting for that. one it takes time. when we took the attorney general to court, when we were the oversight committee it was four years before we got a resolution and the president was on his way out of office. if that happens again the issue of lack of accountability in real-time, the lack of the

ability of the judicial branch to get answers in that moment when those issues are important. four years from now who knows what we'll be thinking about or talking about. the design we have in our constitution was meant for accountability in that moment and that's what's is being trampled on. >> ruth, we go back to the attorney general who committed perjury, should democrats move forward with impeachment hearings since -- it's on tape that he committed perjury in the house and may have committed perjury in the senate as well when chris van hollen asked him a question about mueller. >> i think if i were democrats i would put my energy into moving forward. i would not ignore the attorney general, but the first thing that i would want to do is consider what to do with the attorney general would be to hear from bob mueller. we have two sets of question that we want to hear from bob mueller. one is, how he thought about the

president and indictment of the president on obstruction charges or the guilt of the president on obstruction charges since he believed that he needed to comply with the justice department rules on not indicting a sitting president. now there's this second set of questions involving mueller's dealings with attorney general, what was the nature of their private conversation, was that correctly and accurately reported to congress when the attorney general begins to testify before the senate. so let's go forward and get some facts and then after we get the facts we can make determinations about the best way to proceed. >> we'll see. kurt and ruth stay with us. up next joe biden has a long record to run on in the democratic primary. of course, so does bernie sanders. the two front-runners are going head-to-head on their histories. we'll talk about that next on "morning joe". n "morning joe".

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joe is a good friend of mine, and i'm not here to attack joe. joe voted for the war in iraq. i led the effort against it. joe voted for nafta and permanent normal trade agreements with china. i helped lead the effort against that. joe voted for the deregulation of wall street. i voted against it. if you look at joe's record and you look at my record, i don't think there's much question about who is more progressive.

>> that's bernie sanders yesterday comparing his record as a progressive against joe biden's. joining us now senior political correspondent for the hill. good to have you with us. >> that seems fair. talk issues. that's exactly what you want. joe is a good friend of mine. this is how we're different. that seems to me to be exactly the type of campaign voters should want to have. >> sure, but all the talk was about joe biden was is he progressive enough. the question right now is who is the most electable? electability is the key phrase. joe biden is running on that. that's why he's been leading the polls. he is saying -- he came out of the gate strong and said i can be the one to defeat him. in that first video he did that. he drew the contrast and a lot of people are buying into that. they feel like he's the one who can take it to trump and he's the one who's been fighting him on twitter and kind of head to head. and i think that is saying a lot

to a lot of people. >> i think most folks who look at what democrats want top of their list is sure they can beat trump. >> electability, yeah. the problem is you never know. i said this after kamala harris gave her opening speech. you never know how politics is going to play out until you see somebody forgive the dude thing talking sports analogy. until they get into the batter's box, can they hit a curve. it makes the most sense right now that joe biden can beat donald trump. but it didn't make sense that people that voted for obama voted for trump. and "the new york times" wrote a story saying a lot of people that voted for trump had bernie sanders as their second choice. so you never know until two candidates square off against each other. >> no. especially given the size of this field, 2021, 22 candidates.

and the whoafully early start this campaign has taken upon itself. i mean, i think right now most people including activists, they're basically, it's like a crime thing. they're looking at a photo display. they're looking at a lineup. joe has a familiar face, but he's got one thing that nobody else has in that field. he's handcuffed to barack obama, and that puts a smile in the sense that we can win this thing, i think on a lot of democrats' faces. >> i think the broad field helps joe in this case. you have 21 other people essentially running who are trying to build their name, they want to be recognized in the li lineup. they can't talk about why joe biden can't be the guy and try to build themselves up. they have that use their oxygen and getting themselves out there. biden can run against trump. everybody else has to run against biden. >> the more people in the field, curt is right, the better it should be for joe biden. >> it's an amazing field, by the

way. speaking of. democratic presidential candidate pete buttigieg visited jimmy carter's sunday school class in georgia yesterday. the south bend, indiana mayor was invited by carter to read from the bible as part of the less lesson. the buttigiegs later had lunch with carter and the former first lady at their home. according to a statement, the two politicians quote, enjoyed a conversation about topics ranging from faith to the rigors to the campaign trail. buttigieg later tweeted that he was humbled calli carter a servant. >> what a remarkable man, jimmy carter. >> oh, my gosh. >> remains. it's just extraordinary. >> you don't have to ask where i stand on that. ruth, what do you make of this meeting and also buttigieg has

had a pretty solid rise, but then there's this attitude, i think among democrats that he's -- can he not make it with fund raising or with the minority community? >> well, the rise has been so immedia that i think we're going to have to pay attention to him and see how far he can take it. i've been a little skeptical about a mayor of the fifth largest town in indiana being able to make it all the way, but i have to say watching that interaction between president carter who came out of nowhere to come extent. being a governor is different from a mayor. who would have thought that jimmy carter when he was running as an evangelical southerner would have been welcoming pete buttigieg and his husband into his church to do the reading on a sunday morning? america has not totally changed, but that's

a sign of a different america than the one i grew up in, and that's a good thing. >> i think that jimmy carter's rise from peanut farmer to governor to president made this meeting even more symbolic, but pete buttigieg, you would think came out of nowhere, but then again, look at his record. >> look at his record, and i must say, he's one of the few candidates who every time the guy goes on tv in an interview, he's always impressive. he always says the right thing. i was watching donny's show. donny kept trying to bait him into saying something negative about donald trump which was a great job by donni but mayor pete wasn't going to make it about donald trump. was going to make it about the future of the country. as we talk about how we sort through the field, i know you've looked at minority voters. what are pete's biggest

challenges? i've talked to civil rights leaders who say they personally like mayor pete, but they don't see mayor pete moving voters in black churches. that's a challenge not only for mayor pete. that's still a challenge for bernie sanders. >> yeah. and that's his biggest challenge right now. both of them, actually. i think that's why you saw mayor buttigieg meet with al sharpton earlier this week. it's why you saw him meet with hillary clinton. he wants to sort of get into the good graces of black voters. he's spending two days in south carolina. that's not a coincidence. he knows that biden has the lead there. biden is mentioning my good buddy, president obama. he's saying this every chance he gets, and this is why he has to spend time there if he's going. every candidate that wins that must win the nomination has to win the black vote. and that's something we learned in 2016. that's a take away. and so i think that's why you'll see a lot of candidates spending

a lot of time in south carolina. >> and what we learned in 2008 is just because you are a black candidate does not mean you win the black vote. i remember your interview when michelle obama when you flew out the iowa to talk to her, one of her frustrations at the time was that hillary clinton was still winning black voters compared to barack obama. and president obama didn't win black voters because he was black. he won black voters because he went out and fought to convince them that he could win and that he could then go to the general election and become elected president of the united states. >> i'll be fascinated to watch this dynamic play out between candidate buttigieg and when he goes to visit different communities where you think he might have some challenges. i can't wait to see what happens. i think we might be surprised but i don't want to get ahead of myself. amy, thank you very much.

mark us, curt. thank you. >> are you still writing a book, ruth? >> i'm still writing a book. >> when is it going to end? how much longer? >> there's a lot of reporting to do, but i hope it will be worth the wait. it's going to be about justice kavanaugh and the conservative fight to control the court and the behind the scenes of the confirmation battle. >> well, we can't wait. >> yikes. okay. >> thank you. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thank you, mika and joe. a lot to cover starting with president trump. escalating trade tensions with china. threatening to raise tariffs after what he calls slow negotiations just days before the two sides were scheduled to meet for what was supposed to be the final round of talks. china says it is considering backing out of the talks altogether sending premarket trading into a complete nos