your time this morning. >> thank you. >> we'll be reading axios a.m. in just a little while. you can sign up. that does it for us, i'm yasmin vossoughian alongside geoff bennett. "morning joe" starts right now. >> man, starting with a jam. >> welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, may 9th. we have along with joe, willie and me, we have jonathan lemire, julia ainsley is with us. nbc law analyst benjamin vittes,

and john meacham, author of -- >> hold on, that's not the tim mcgraw. that is a tennis player. >> he's john'spartner. >> they were the runners up. >> 80-plus tennis tournament. >> and it is timothy bergeson mcgraw iii. >> an old tobacco family that did business and moved to nashville. >> all right. >> we have a lot to get to this morning. >> as michael beschloss says at

what points will books we write go straight to large print, given the age of our people. >> good pount. >> we have a lot going on. hold on, though. we've got more sports. red sox, we're number three. we're number three. >> our long national nightmare is over. we've reached .500. >> a moment so important, it will be celebrated at the white house this afternoon by the president because they reached . -- .500. >> oh, no, they're going to win, they're going to win. >> they are not! j.b.j. -- and you ask yourself, a tip of the hat, you ask yourself why you do you keep a guy who bats .150 in the lineup?

that is why you keep a guy who bats .150 in the lineup. because he wins games. >> wow, that game should be over. so before i leave the red sox, before i leave the red sox, i hate to bring this up, they're going to the white house but it has become a very segregated affair for our boston red sox, a team again let's say in the past has had some real problems with race. >> championship teams when they go to the white house, that's a familiar ritual. there as a few bad jokes, athletic excellence is honored, the president gets a jersey with his name on it. >> when barack obama was there, he'd take a shot, a basket, and miss it. >> under president trump they become hyper politicized. we have seen teams be disinvited, like the golden

state warriors and so many thing even team that have gone, they've gone in smach smaller numbers. for this red sox team it seems particularly frustrate. the optics look a little divisive pause every player of color on the team is not going with the exception of. k. martinez and every white player on the team is going. >> and i think. d. is kind of conversation it's a team and a city that has had history of racial issues. and though certainly as things have improved, the legacy is still there. the red sox have stressed this is where -- plars on both sides of the issue have hade and that

may be true. we'll see that you but, i had declining number african-american players. >> well, our report are, willie, mike barnicle, has been talking to a will the of people, says there is not dissension in the clubhouse over there. i personally wish -- against not to sound like harold but i understand those who aren't going and i roo expect them and a 3-year-old twr i understand that, too. i to wish that would have held

back and you know what, i'm just going to stay back with my teammates. >> and alex cora has a very specific complaint about donald trump. he is puerto rican and he doesn't like the way president trump has handled port rico. when i it and alex corea was on the radio. >> like david price. thank you, david! >> price has said because he tweeted a "boston herald" reporter's observation, that it was touch a race will to what he thought was an insensitive observation. >> so david's now saying there's not racial division.

rchlts all right. >> and there were horse roo eed like to think i've had a few decent moments of my journalism career i could be proud of. i think the pin a call is today when i'm in the rose garden shouting questions about the red sox. >> so totthis week totham scores three in the second of a it's

just the craziest week. and the craziest part of the week, you know, people were screaming all over the world watching this, but the screams that did not each murray is yelling on the radio. the kids are going crazy. it kind of like a john meacham vant but also it happened, n. >> to your dad's book vant last night. yes, lake of the ozarks.

in a lot of my dad as fans, if this whol thing has been so great for my dad to sit there and tell had in one of the greatest storytellers ever. >> and it been fun for me sorry i weren't there. >> also, mika last night talking to interest. very honest and vulnerable with all of the ups and downs that they have faced as a family and i found her to be remarkable.

it was a great event and we really appreciate being -- the opportunity to sit with her on stage and listen to her stories, but we also did an interview for this show, talked a little bit more about the politics of the situation and we'll be showing that later in the show. but first -- >> i want to go to john because there's another sporting event. >> no, we got to get to the news. >> interesting he made an observation because he had worked with richard ben cramer very well and aware of the remarkable biden stories. and biden would always take the bait. someone would accuse him of not being the smartest guy and he jumped back and said things he

always regretted. 2008 the same thing. we were talking about joe biden and is he too old? and jack said and mika later on was talking to jill about this who agreed. in this case older does seem to equal wiser, and perhaps makes a difference for him this year that he is older and wiser and has learned from two campaigns, like ronald reagan learned from two campaigns of servicing. >> remember that moment in 2008 there was a debate where i think brian williams asked are you at all more disciplined now? can you just give us short answers? do you believe you've conquered this? and i believe i'm right that joe

just said "yes" and that was the answer. i came around in february with this incoit sense he might not run. there are two things recently that are really, really interesting. one is the study about the left on twitter is not the base of the democratic party. it the base it's the base of the progressive part of twitter. i think that's significant. and the other thing is most americans, for better or for worse, and i would say for

better, don't follow the public life of the nation in as detailed a way as we all do. so biden to them represents a working class -- white working class wing of the obama years. they think of obama, obama looks pretty good right now. of course all previous presidents now look like cicero, but that's okay. >> james buchanan's family, by the way, very, very pleased with trump's performance thus far. >> as '43 has said in public, "don't look so bad now." >> love that guy. we miss him badly. >> so i think all of that is coming together. so you have a democratic party that may not be as close to the w warren and sanders world that

cable media might suggest to you and folks who don't get wrapped up in the serialization of conflict in which we all play a part, whether it's -- whatever the controversy of the moment is and biden looks out of touch or he looks as though he's getting wrapped up in this movementnd a he might be able to carry pennsylvania. let's take a hard look at him. i think that's a significant part of why he's doing so well right now. >> and the life story is something that might add to why he brings more to the table right now. >> the senate intelligence committ committ committeeof course, it too easy to forget all this man has been through and it came crashing

back on me last night. talk about god's awful grace. he lost his wife and his baby daughter in a car accident right before he got sworn into the senate. he had -- everybody thought he was going to die after the '88 cam pan. they opened up his skull, but the doctors said when we did, if the vessel goes in, you're going to die. he called his kids to the bedside and told his sons especially, listen, there's a chance i'm not going to make it but i want you to know you never have to go through your life asking whether dad was proud of you. know now i'm proud of you, you've already made me proud. and then he loses his son beau. this man has been -- he's lost

two children, he's lost a wife. i mean, he almost died in '88. >> their house burned down. >> yeah, their house burned down. as jill said last night, when the house burned down, he came in from washington, he's walking in, everything's burned down and he looked at her and she was afraid he was going to be so broken hearted and he said, well, you know what, this gives us a great chance to fix all the things that we messed up on when we built this house. she said that's who he is. i don't know how he lost two children, lost a wife in a car accident, almost died and he just keeps going. and he's optimistic. >> and his experience with all that grief is separate from hers, is different. she talks about that in the full interview with dr. biden we'll

show on "morning joe" straight ahead. it was fascinating how she shares a look into their personal life but has a very different point of view about how she handles grief. it going to especially if she wins the white house. i think she might be transformative if that ever came to pap. >> his political kroor began in his child's hospital room. he was sworn in as a senator. if you think about the course of history as john meacham does, in 2016 this country might have been a completely different place if his son, beau, had not died so tragically. he said i can't run for senate right now, i don't have it in me. it might have been a different election and different country.

>> few americans with speak about grief like he can. there are a number of people who identify with that. when he speaks, they can feel that and they connect with him on that level. >> so ben wittes, i know you thought you were coming to "morning joe." but this has been the regis show where i sit here and talk about whatever the hell i want to talk about. >> where did you go to dinner last night? >> we didn't go to dinner. >> regis, he's the absolute best. regis said "can you believe the review, the show girls." so a double headline here, house committee vote to put barr in contempt. so barr is in contempt pt and and at the same time this is the

shocker, the senate republican-led intel committee subpoenas don jr. >> hello! >> yet another day of incredible stories buzzing across our phone. what do you make of all of it? >> we, let's start with the house vote is a total nonsurprise. the senate move seems like it comes out of nowhere, except the senate intelligence committee, unlike everything that's gone on on the house side pretty relentlessly about i think senator richard burst deserves a lot of credit for that. so what specific chi that there

are questions that they need to answer, don jr., before wrapping up their work. it's a sign that he continues to run and has run a pretty professional investigation and i'm sure he's going to get hammered by krit in republican world. but i think he, you know, rae deserves a lot of credit and talk about how shameful. there have been a couple of things that critics have pounded him for, share he is being

attacked by don jr. and jon jr. pass init is, joe. in this case burr and this is a pretty aggressive move to subpoena coop. it's after he refused to answer questions fromand he pretty much came out unscathed of the mule are referand mule are base chi

con it want a willful violation of that. but a lot of have debated that decision and now we'll be able to get to that question as he comes or at least has to respond to the subpoena. then there's the question of the new michael co i don't know and h had. in really didn't know a whole lot about those nch. . in william pur will come out of this perhaps one of those people who cannot be rattled by the political wave here. and that's key as mueller closes up shot and we no lo are they've

been an approximatelywe have a lot more to talk about. new york state yesterday. my gather, they did a couple of things. first of all, they took a move toofrd actually being able to send along to the feds donald trump's new york tax returns to figure out how much honey. for anybody that donald trump may she came and this is fry my

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oh, my god. i don't know how they do that. you just know people and it becomes so real. >> the turn around that senator graham has made on the president. he does run a good golf course apparently. >> john mccain along with lindsay. >> weighing in on new york's bombshell report that trump loss mo more. i said he's done a lot, he's

accomplished a lot. he lost a balanced over a dk aid. or a perspective or pin. that and said donald trump i just doesn't know how you can lock nap and say that's a successful guy. >> the thapg is oo got in turn doll give hp had and then he lost a billion dollars on top f of. in sfchlt and that's like saying

someone jumped off a 50-story building and accomplished something because of how quickly they hit the ground. is that a pretty good metaphor? from u.s. lawrence offer his tax returns. according to the associated press, new york's state senate a a. in the bill, which now head to the state asem fwlchl state tax prchlt sfchenate senate finance committee. both chambers are controlled by democrats. at the same time new york's state senate has also passed a bill that would exempt new york's so-called double jeopardy

law, from cases involving presidential pardons. if line so we have two things to talk about doming out of work state. s did that pop f. >> so eight complicated thing. the parameters of sort of duel off renity and the to be this will be a big deal on if f who could face trial in new york separately. so it's a bit of a hip. it will us about the tax returns.

ffrm n so if you think about your own tax return, you're state that is, the un(sfuchlt so the idea that state fchblt to the have data in a the n is a pretty undue. f who say, hey, if the irs won't give it ou, all you think this as no.

fuchlt ff how to return tax d a data, new york state return tax data. >> i have to say, yulia, i neff saw this coming. and the. on the federal level. but on the state level, i mean, eight pretty brilliant move by the nch permanent nfrmt ffrmt

and that the ans state. whoop on set going after a incredible. sfchlt or atlas what n a the question of where donald trump got money that can f around twait, two and and he tn n so i think more than the losses, more poosably more than whrnt he machl a question of where sm of this money came from and were there foreign bank involved. i think that one of the things that really gets under the skin of that the fount what n.

from that f instead, i had texed you a question yesterday and it's a little sprid sficht sfchlt fuchlt it appeared that the d can can sfchlt that pr tan it fmt sfchlt sfchlt, you said

it will take some time. can you explain that? >> i want be candid, we don't know. the courts are much better about expediting appeals that involve their own confrontations with the president than they are about facilitating congressional confrontation with the president. so if you think back to watergate, you know, the court's actually or maybe not even at all on congress's effort to g got -- this ruled on the prosecutor as evident be and edid that very fats. and the court as general at tutsi f after yoorss are just

racehi on thrs this brp, pd ishsly to facilitate congress getting what it wants. i do think that nancy pelosi has hired a truly first right counsel fblt isn't. >> benjamin wittes, thank you so much. coming up, president trump is imposing new sanctions on iran.

and jove night north korea launched more suspected short range mitt ls different approaches to these two foreign threats is there is one. next on "morning joe." dp

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. as you know, we got our hostages back. there's no more testing. one of the things that chairman kim promised me last night is he's not going to do testing of rockets and nuclear. not going to do test. i trust him and i take him at his word. >> donald, i wouldn't do that. >> out of the korean peninsula, south korea says earlier today north korea fired two short-range missiles from the eastern direction, home to one of north korea's missile bases and it comes five days afr kterm

jong un oversaw a series of test launches. the app reports seem to be modelled after a russian short-range missile system. yesterday the pentagon announced it is suspended talks with north korea regarding remains of troops saying the u.n. has not heard from pyongyang on the topic since the collapse of the hanoi summit in february. >> now let's hear from msnbc contributor ben rhodes. ben, who understands donald trump's strategy? it seems he's just caving in day in and day out to kim jong un. but i think it interesting. it difficult for any president, the north korea issue. it has been for 20, 25 years.

i know barack obama told donald trump this would be what kept you up at night. what kept you up at night about north korea and what could any president do to slow down the development of a nuclear program that could deliver a nuclear preppon weapon to nebraska? >> woo e have tens of thousands service members in north japan. they put at risks those tens of thousands of americans, as well as our allies. >> so what do we do to stop him? >> thus far what you've seen this president do is heap praise on kim jong un. where nothing happens, joe.

they have not rolled back their nuclear program at all. you try to go step by step. you don't try to hit a home run at a summit sitting next to kim jong un, a murderous dictator. >> they've lied, lied to president obama, lied to president bush, lied to present. they've lied to everybody. is there ever -- does a deal ever go through north korea? or does it have to go through china? >> well, first of all, they lie and that's why you need some inspections regime, joe and not just relying on the word of kim jong un. we cannot stress how unusual it is that this president takes kim jong un on his word repeatedly. i would want to see some va verification regime. you need to work with china. you also need to work with

allies, south korea and japan. this president has consistently treated allies worse than he's treated kim jong un. that's why this has become such a dangerous and destabilizing situation globally. >> ben, it's willie. can i ask you the big-picture question we've asked so many foreign policy experts over the last couple of years when we talk about north korea and that is why would north korea ever give up its nuclear program? it's the only weapon it has. it is the stick that kim jong un wields. why would he give up that nuclear program? >> i think you're right and he's not going to give in a up soon. what you want is a verifiable rocket if we can roll back that

program. at the same time, if you have inspectors in there that can give transparency to that situation, who would make a deal with us? the iranians and this president just pulls out that that's why this kind of bull in a china shop approach to foreign policy is going to have costs that come due overtime. and i think we're beginning to see those costs. you saw it with iran announcing they might not come plight with a nuclear deal that president trump pulled out of a year ago. >> and this is a test of president trump's foreign policy. i was in hanoi when that summit fell apart in stunning fashion. something that -- if it was any other country involved, any other foreign leader, he would have reacted with real rage and anger. with kim jong un, he has

repeatedly begin given him the benefit of the doubt? >> it's because the president has put so much faith in him that o as he would cozy up to kim jong un, flapper him, appeal to some sort of pans usually in the summits, on the staff level they get close to an agreement and the principals come in and seal the deal. in this case, that didn't happen and part of it is because of the reasons and it fell apart be but he is so much invested in this, he seems to be refusing to let it go. yes, to keep the world a safer place but he's also told people around him he thinks this is his chance to a nobel peace prize

and how he can get re-elected and to this point he do not seem to want to sever negotiations with kim jong un. >> john meacham. >> ben, i wanted to ask you, do you think north korea at this point is a rational regime in that is there a couple of moves -- have they thought a couple of moves out as to whether the pursuit of this nuclear policy is ultimately sustainable for them as a regime and, secondly, what do you think the intelligence reports, the psychological profile of trump is that foreign leaders are reading in their capitals as they begin to deal with him? >> well, first of all, i think they're entirely rational. kim jong un isn't coming to these summit because he wants praise on twitter tw donald trump -- from donald trump, he wants sanctions relief. he's not taking one step to roll

back their he's trying to get our attention and rationally say if you don't give me what i want, which is sanctions relief, i will keep doing this. and i think the psychological profile that all of these people have, particularly these dictators that trump can't seem to stop praising is if you flatter him or give him a spectacle, you don't need to do anything. you don't need to make a deal. north korea has done nothing for two years. they had two meetings with trump, he liked the attention he got internationally. people described in as an achievement when nothing was negotiated, i think if you can flatter him strong man to strong man, don't need to giving in up. >> thank you for this ongoing, a little disturbing story. >> so donald trump thinks he's going to win a nobel prize for

north korea? >> he has told heem peoplein the past that he was encouraged by the steps, even though there is and he felt if he was the president who could have nong bong which is a program that keeps them in beistence -- >> you can just have those made, like fake "time" magazine covers. >> don't make fun of he -- >> that's what oo i always -- i never have the discipline to not unpeel the gold and i eat the chocolate. >> delicious. >> also, reports out yesterday that donald trump is now privately worrying about john bolton. he used to joke that he was going to get him into a war but now we hear reports that donald trump is privately worrying that john bolton is trying to get him

into a war with iran. >> there's been growing frustration from the president on his national security adviser, that he feels that he's painted into a corner there, that he feels that trump -- that bolton pushed trump to say there will be regime change here, that maduro will leave that, this can be something he can step in and would not take much in the way of american influence. instead that's he feels that bolton has led him to a path that may become inevitable. >> did you figure out the name of the lama? >> it's teintina.

tina, you fat lard, he calls her. >> stop -- doesnn't, doesn't --e of the great movies of our time. >> you know how it's going to end. >> napoleon dynamite, you're showing your kids that? >> i have a 9-year-old son and 11-year-old daughter. that is evergreen. >> and time you will never get back. john meacham, thank you very much. >> john, thank you so much. >> yup. >> the large print best selling author. there we go. >> i can speak up, too, if you want. bye. good-bye! >> that would be great. >> can you practice your book on

tape? go ahead. >> introduction. no. and that thanks so much. >> no, doesn't do it. >> i was going to do a thomas jefferson audio book. >> coming up, congresswoman ver on could -- veronica escobar with join us. just the other day, they were saying the case was closed so why the other day were they subpoenaing donald trump jr.? >> you sounded like -- >> subpoenaing? that's not a word. >> i'll look it up.

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the point is every single day, whether it's obstruction, obstruction, obstruction of having people come to the table with facts, ignoring the subpoena, the president is making a case -- he's becoming self-impeachable in terms of some of the things that he is doing. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is thursday, may 9th. we have reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire, claire mccaskill, former white house counsel to president obama, bob bower. boy, nancy pelosi. >> nancy pelosi. i've been friends with nancy for

a very long time. we were on different sides of the aisle, i have to say, claire, i knew she was good at what she did but this isn't hyperbole. i don't think i can recall a lead leader on capitol hill being more pitch perfect, juggling more things at the same time than nancy pelosi, but she has struck the perfect tone from the start. >> i think she is -- you know, this is one of those times when experience does really matter. you know, in politics experience is a bad thing. you're supposed to have never done it before. you're supposed to be some business guy who just wandered in and says, well, i can save america. but nancy has been there. she understands. what's really unimaginable is

how she's managed to keep the troops from straying. once you have that power, you want to go. she's managed to keep all of her men and women to the as a team. that's an amazing accomplishment, especially when we have that left friction in our party right now. >> to you this has to seem especially extraordinary because nancy is speaker of the house because of the moderates that won in virginia, because of the moderates that won in california, because of the moderates that won in georgia, because of the moderates that won in districts where they don't usually win. and we -- i hear liberals complaining all the time about the supreme court. the supreme court is -- and nancy is charting a moderate course to try to help people like you running for office so the democrats can get the majority again. but until democrats figure out

how to do this on the senate side, republicans are going to keep putting conservatives on the supreme court for as long as republicans control the senate. doesn't matter who the democratic president is. we saw that with merrick garland. >> i think you're right. we got to recruit good candidates in the states we can win. there's a bunch of states we can win. i do think the democrats in the senate are trying. if you notice this week, what most of the democratic senators are talking about is health care for women in this country. we are taking a dramatic, radical turn to the right in terms of health care for women. just contraception is actually in play under this administration. so i think the senate is trying. i do think what nancy has in the back of her mind and what chuck schumer has in the back of his

mind is the way we get back to the majority is getting those obama voters we lost to donald trump. >> i don't want to get you in trouble. >> you probably will. up know, i' you know, i've never been in trouble before so why don't we try? >> there's a reason when donald trump goes to the rally he ticks off this, that, the other. part of that is late-term abortion and that matters to a lot of people across american. it like assault rifle, like expanded background checks. on late-term abortion, it the same thing. in states like missouri, in states like montana, in other states and middle america where democrats need to win if they want to control the supreme

court again, you know, sometimes it's got to be okay to have a democratic nominee that believes that when a baby is viable, when an unborn child is viable, like 22, 23 weeks, it's okay for states to put in limitations. i'm not preaching anything here. i'm just talking about political realities. there are some issues that democrats have to give some room on like abortion and not take an absolutist position if they ef wa -- ever want to win back the senate. >> most americans don't have an absolutist position on abortion. first of all, donald trump is lying when he talks about late-term abortion in his rallies. nobody is murdering live-born babies. >> but let's not get into a semantics argument that people who want, you know,

military-style weapons out there get on guns. on abortion there have been democrats that have staken out a position that precludes people from getting elected in missouri and other state where democrats have to win. >> i think democrats have to pivot and go to where there is most agreement, like background checks. you nope wheknow where there is agreement? accessible to contraception. there are going to be more unwanted pregnancies if they don't have contraception. defunding organizations that are the go-to organizations for contraception are going to create more abortions. >> i understand. >> the other thing is what georgia just did is they're saying a woman should go to prison and a doctor should go to prison if there's a heartbeat. that's six weeks. women many times don't even know they're pregnant at six weeks.

>> i'm saying democrats have to allow somebody to say i support the right for abortion but at 20 weeks, 21 weeks when the baby becomes viable, i'm sorry, you know what, i think at that point a state can make its opwn choics without the federal government stepping in. i'm saying the democratic party has to be okay with that. >> first of all, the democratic party needs to welcome people that have all views. that's the bottom line is we should not be disqualifying people as democrats because they are big gun advocates or because they are very strong -- that's the other thing we got to remember. let's make sure we don't start ef l eliminating people because we aren't in singe. >> -- sync.

>> i think you're right, that's an extreme position and we go to the other side in georgia and that's an extreme position. you have to have a place for pro-life democrats. >> let's do the middle. >> you've seen in alabama, they're staking out extreme positions. good luck being a republican candidate ever winning in georgia, a suburban woman. >> so before we get to bob, claire has confirmed that subpoenaing is a word. i'm not good at it so -- >> yeah, we are subpoenaing business records -- >> it doesn't sound right. >> it an awkward word. >> we're not doing it. the senate intelligence committee has subpoenaed don jr. as part of its russia investigation. the republican-led panel is demanding that donald trump jr. answer questions about his previous testimony over moscow's

election interference. it mashs trks the first congresl subpoena against one of trump's children. he testified before the senate judiciary committee in 2017. he said at the time he was only peripherally aware of the trump tower moscow project, which was kept secret from voters. in an interview at the beginning of this year, trump jr. downplayed his family's role in that project. in addition to questioning him on that, the committee wants to ask trump jr.ier of what he told his father and others about the 2016 meeting with russians to figure out this russia thing. >> bob bauer, case closed. doesn't lock liok like it. >> it isn't doesn't. it interesting the committee wants to come back to the campaign finance issue.

there's also the testimony about the moscow hotel project. the mueller analysis of the trump tower meeting is very cursory. now it seems like it may receive some more attention. it not consistent of course with the development of the administration's narrative, this is out of the republican senate and the bipartisan senate intelligence committee. so on a number of accounts, this seems to be a potentially significant development. >> in one of the most predictable terms to the story, maggie haber tweeted about the senate intel subpoena, "don continues to cooperate by producing documents but no lawyer would alou their client to participate in what is an obvious p.r. stunt, from a so-called republican senator too

cowardly to stand up to his boss mark warner and the rest of the resistance democrats on the committee." >> have reliable republican. this is not going to sit well with richard burr. seriously, if you're getting called by your own party with an investigative subpoena, probably one of the pieces of advice your lawyer would give you is don't insult the chairman right out of the gate. yes, richard burr is not going to run again and he probably has a little bit more independence, but it's big that he did this right after mitch mcconnell gave his speech, sending a signal to of republican we're done, that richard burr did this, that the members of the committee went along with it without anybody speaking out.

there's a lot of republicans on that committee and not one of them, john, i was kind of surprised that somebody didn't say i'm opposed to us doing this, but nobody has. >> no one did, but there was going to be a splintering in the party over this issue. john jr. is the most popular over the conservative base. we saw it pick up a lot of traction, we saw the hit pieces from breitbart and other places about burr. it is probably only a matter of time before the president himself weighs in and burr becomes the latest republican senator to draw the rawrath of s own party. >> it's only the second time that republican borders have somehow this week confused loyalty to donald trump with -- or put loyalty to donald trump over the rule of law. you had this case. you also had a lot of trump

supporters not on in congress but also in the media attack the group of -- the group that had put out the list of the prosecutors, which has always been a bipartisan group. and now you have people that were once respected journalists attacking them as partisan left-weleft left-wing groups going after donald trump. if you support the rule of law in this new washington, d.c. that republicans run, then you somehow, you know, that's seen as an attack on donald trump, supporting the rule of law. >> the republicans in the senate know better in terms of that list of 800-plus prosecutors. many of them know many of them. these are not republicans or democrats on that list. these are not political operatives. these are not people that have ever been pushed around because most of them spent most of their lives in the justice department

where it was a really big deal if you were political. you could not be political as a career prosecutor at justice. those days are kind of gone now. you know, let's get back to a fundamental truth here. not one republican not has spoken out strongly about the attorney general of the united states saying that the president has the power to stop any investigation. >> no. ben sass, didn't ben go to harvard law school? >> we've got lots of harvard and yale folks on there. mike lee did. the guy who beat me did. >> let's not get started with him. >> let's not talk about it. >> you have some of the best schools, job, and yet you have an attorney general that says the president -- basically the tlau also allow the attorney

general of the united states of america to commit perjury in the house of representatives. so i wrote voted to imetch if you committed perjury in front of a federal grand jury, would you have been isn't to jail. that was my standard. that's the same standard i use for barr now. he committed perjury in front of congress. if you or i did that, we would be sitting in jail right now and yet not a single republican has stood up and spoken out on that. >> bill barr is waging what i call for him he really of a view of, tiff authority that is exceedingly expansive, some would say extreme. i think he took the job in part to defend it.

i think it has less to do with his defense of donald trump. some would say he's working as donald trump's personal attorney. if you look back going ba he takes the view that the republican has authority, regardless of motive, to end an investigation, even if it is one that implicates him and his political opponents and families. >> so you're staying this is a longstanding view, an imperial presidency. >> in is his longstanding view. before being considered for a attorney general, he drafted a long 19-page general member dough, laying this theory out and he submitted it to the donald trump period it's a

position on, tiff authority that he is very strongly committed to. >> bob weeshs have the banner below you, the president praised the attorney general yesterday. what happens if it does go to the house if nancy pelosi calls that vote and the full house votes the attorney general to be in contempt? is that merely symbolic or what happens from there? >> it's another step in an escalating confrontation. it not to say it won't be resolved. the department of justice's pos is it need mo -- position is it needs more time to review any of the materials on which the mueller document relied. that's millions of documents. it's a privilege claim that's

been made in the meantime to buy time. the house wants to hurry it up, it's voting contempt. the administration is responding by saying we need more time. there are potentially protracted legal proceedings ahead of us on this. >> bob i mean, article one obviously -- the drafters of the constitution believe in separate but equal branches but the first branch among equals, of course, was congress. what are your thoughts as you see the white house just show contempt for the house and the senate's constitutional duties? >> i think the lawyers in the white house are being bit to the will of the president.

if you were advising the president, you would tell him you can't do a blanket denial. you can't deny congress everything. this is weakening the president's position in the courts if this eventually gets to the courts, which i think it probably will. maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, maybe not until the summer of next year or later, but the point is that when you say no to everything, then you are really spitting at the founding framers of the constitution. you are basically saying that congress has no role and there's plenty of case law out there that says congress has a role, a legitimate role in jooversight. they're saying no to everything. they have not produced anything, on health care, on puerto rico, on separation of kid frs from tr families brd it-- we've always d

fights but not like this, where the president said we're shutting it down, we're ignoring them, we're treating them the way we used to treat small business contractors that used to build things for me, don't pay them, they'll take less after they had to hire lawyer. >> at a rally last night, the president insisted an invasion is taking place at the southern border. we'll show you his new comments and we'll bring in congresswoman veronica escobar to talk about that, 2020 politics and her vote in the judiciary committee in favor of holding the torattorne general in contempt. and this week we'll look at the cover of "time" magazine. "i have a plan for that." elizabeth warren is betting that america is ready for her big

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at his rally in florida last night, the president declared the united states is being invaded by hoards of migrants and expressed frustration that he's uncapable of stopping them until an audience member appeared to say he should shoot them, the president reacted with a joke about florida. >> this is an invasion. when you see these caravans starting out with 20,000 people, that's an invasion. i was badly criticized for using the word invasion. it's an invasion. folks, it's crazy. and then they say -- and the wall would help. not help, the wall would stop it, okay, the wall would stop it. when you have 15,000 people marching up and you have hundreds and hundreds of people and you have two or three bored

a border security people that are brave and great. we can't let them use weapons. we can't. i would never do that. but how do you stop these people? you can't. there's no -- that's only in the panhandle you can get away with that statement. only in the panhandle. so it's a tough situation. >> joining us now member of the house judiciary committee democratic whip congresswoman veronica escobar of texas. where would you like to begin when it comes to reacting to the president's comments yesterday from the invasion to the joke? >> well, good morning, mika, i'll tell you that clip when i saw it last night, it made me very, very sad, very sad for our

country, that we are at such a moral rock bottom and that we have a president who has created an addiction to hate, an addiction to bigotry and he uses every opportunity he can to feed and grow that addiction. we -- we are in so many crises. s we a-- we are juggling as americans so many crises. this morals crisis is painful to watch unfold. >> you sit on the judiciary committee. you supported the resolution to hold attorney general barr in contempt yesterday. what specifically did you hear or not hear from him that led you to that position. . >> the attorney general gave us no choice. chairman nadler has tried for over two months to get access to

materials and information that rightfully belongs in the hands of congress. we are here to do the people's work. they have stalled, stonewalled, obstructed. the committee has done everything possible to accommodate mr. barr, to make sure that woo bend over backwards to assure that accommodations are made. by essentially refusing to provide the report, by not showing up a hearing and before we even walked into the hearing room hereby gave us no choice. yesterday i wanted to remind the american public why this hearing in particular is so important. the united states was attacked by russia, and the president and his family and his team knew

about it, welcomed it, never reported it and then the president tried to obstruct an investigation about that attack. the russians are still at it today. they were very successful in their attack against the united states, and all of us, republicans and democrats alike, should be working to get to the full truth so that we can prevent an attack on us again and protect this country. >> congresswoman, as you heard from your republican colleagues and woo -- they would say you've had two years, it time to move on. how would you respond to that? >> they don't care about an

attack by a foreign adversary on this country. it's not a very patriotic attitude if you ask me. the mueller report paints a very frightening and damaging picture. if they had read it, they should be as alarmed and frightened as the rest of us are for our democracy. >> congresswoman, you marked out about a year since the policy of separating children from their families at the border. they're trying to make it harder for those who come to the border. you're introducing legislation to try to protect those acsylum seekers. can you walk us through what you're trying to do? >> i'm trying to defund the protocol policies put in effect

i this administration. what has been happening in el paso is they've been sent back to mexico to await their hearing and await due process. we're seeing that many of them are not returning because they can't. they have they are growing more and more desperate and they're being put in danger so we're trying to defund that program alto ta altogether. >> congresswoman, i think we have to say there is an issue with the number number of peopl showing up at the border. the system is being overwhelmed. i think all of us can agree on that. what i don't understand is why there hasn't been more urgency about surging resources for the judicial process.

because if the judicial process occurs quickly, then asylum is determined, it is valid and if not they go back. they haven't even funded the judicial positions that were in the budget. they hadn't even hired the people. speak to that because we've got a problem there, when i was there, they were still using papers in these courts. they hadn't even converted for electron being files. had you to wa-- you had to waita file to come from el paso if you were in california. talk about that, if you could. >> that is correct. the same problems that you outline persist. there has been in my view a real misuse and misappropriations of

funds. there's been an approach that has been far less than strategic. i'll give u an example . they have been ill-equipped -- i don't want to say ill equipped. we've known in the migration patterns for years now and they have not changed their policies in 20 years. you still have, for example, agents with a gun and a badge performing functions that could be performed by civilians. those functions should be civilianized. even in the interim. d.h.s. should be bringing civilian c.v.b. folks, civilian

border patrol folks to perform the functions that doesn't require law enforcement, get i'll tell you, their decision to move customs border protection agents from our ports has created a semi shut double play at our ports of entry on the economic side, on the trade side. that's one example when you're thinking is there any kpon sense here? why wasn't there any strategy or planning for this? we've been seeing it unfold for months and months. fobs like me have been warning from home, hey, y'all, we're going to see more significant numbers in the spring once the weather warms up. what are you going to do? how are you going to plan for that? it an agency that has been receiving hundreds of mol then

you take a look at the judicial side, you have a department of justice that still has an iron grip on its judges and a president that has stalled funds for new judges and for the ancillary personnel that they need. it's hard not to be cynical about this and think that no matter how many resources we appropria appropriate, we have an administration that wants to exacerbate a challenge so he can laugh when people say "shoot them." >> that was an excellent way of laying out the many dimensions of this problem. congresswoman veronica escobar, thank you very much. we'll see you soon. >> coming up, peter buttigieg has been a standout and there's now a new issue separating him from the pack.

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health care is freedom because you're not free if you can't start a small business when leaving a job means losing your health care. >> that was south balancend, in mayor pete buttigieg at his campaign kickoff last month. despite his position on access to health care, a new report out this morning reveals his campaign is not providing health care for staffers. joining us, national political reporter for nbc news and what

did you find out about other campaigns? >> depending on your situation, you have kids a, a spouse, ther should be enough to cover a silver plan. the democrats are providing health care to their workers as they go around the country cam pawni -- campaigning on things that buttigieg is, how important it is to have insurance. all of these candidates are providing direct health care. their staffers can buy into aetna, blue cross-blue shield,

united. some of the scrutiny that pete buttigieg is going to come under now that he's playing with the big boys and girls. he's going to have the way he operates with the same level of skrut anyway ni as folks like joe biden and elizabeth warren who have been in the game for a long time. >> i'm making no executions for mayor pete. he is raising money. mib maybe th maybe this is part of scaling up. >> i think it's part of scaling up. i think the best thing mayor pete can do is say we thought the stipend was going to cover it but as i thought it out, we're going to go and pay for health insurance. i think that's the way to handle it. we obviously thought this was okay to do the $400 a month but now that i've thought about it and realize all the other candidates are doing it this way, let's do it this way.

>> this is a campaign that came out of nowhere to become this top-tier candidate. and his candidacy and his staff, liz smith, who is helping run that, have received a lot of praise. they've run a near flawless campaign to this point. this seems to be the first bad had had line, the question, josh, have they made any promises to you or other reporters who have asked about this that they will make corrections to health care? and have they done any other reviews in terms of getting up to speed and in terms of taking care of the people who work for them? >> that's exactly right. the buttigieg cam pan has suggested this is some of their growing pains. they've gone from basically obscurity a few months ago to a staff that that under obamacare

once they have that 50 people, they'll have a critical mass to negotiate the group plan and they are taking a look at some of the other ways they run their campaign, trying to make sure it all allow. >> things have changed since i ran a campaign. i would provide the crackers but not the butter -- >> cheese. >> or the cheese. if you want cheese, you go to france! >> warm beer and cold pizza. >> for a campaign that's ramping up, so much of -- again, the minor leagues, but so much of it was like volunteers coming in. >> of course. think about what he just said. they have not reached 50 employees yet.

elizabeth warren, i don't know what her payroll is but it's huge, hundreds and hundreds. >> kind of seem like they're looking for something. >> yes. for him to have gotten where he is with less than 50 people working on his campaign, it's remarkable. and interest there will be growing pains. >> we talked about one of the congratulate challenges when he had his really successful launch, how do you scale it? how do it shows us and will show us how he's ramping up. josh, thank you so much. great reporting. we appreciate it. >> we have a lot more still to come. as we go to break. it been an incredible week as the roll out of "eastern it," a

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the student killed in the shooting at a colorado charter school that left eight other students injured on tuesday is being heralded as a hero. the father of 18-year-old kevin castillo told "the denver post" that his son died while attempting to subdue an assailant. he said castillo's friends in

the corner told him that his son and another boy charged one of the shooters once they entered the classroom, taking action that helped save others. >> kendrick was a selfless individual, and he cared about people. that's how he lived his life. >> another story, north carolina as well. and these kids are now going after them, these heroes, they shouldn't have to deal with people coming into their schools and shooting them up. >> these kids are heroes, the 8-year-old. but, you know, these are stories we used to hear out of iraq and afghanistan. now, we're hearing them out of our schools, out of our high schools, middle schools. it's sickening. >> and there's no acknowledgement from the leader of this country that this is a problem. >> no. the 8-year-old i was referring to, i saw where he was quoted in the press as saying i knew a

shot had been fired because we've been drilling for this science i was in kindergarten. this is a new normal. i'm so old, i remember when they had us get under our desks for a potential nuclear attack. >> right. >> of course, it was silly, but that's what they had us do. but now, young people in this country are required to learn how to deal with an active shooter from kindergarten. >> i remember going to lunch, and first grade, and passing the fallout shelter sign to tell you where to run. when the enemy was the soviet union. when they knew it was the russians that might start a nuclear war. now, children, all of our children, go to school every day prepared. there is lockdowns every day. >> there is a kid who was involved witness to one of these shootings who told a story on television that he was in the closet. he had grabbed a baseball bat. because he knew. he heard the shots. he thought if i'm going to go

out, i'm going to go out fighting. this is a 12-year-old who was making that decision, that was going to try to save himself but his friends. it was striking how young he was. in this interview he gave. the reporter asked him he started to say 12 1/2, like a little kid does, you toughen up your age. and then say i'm 12. and then told the story as the father looked on. as a father of two boys. and just it was so moving but that is what we've conditioned to. we now have a trend. we have two students in a week's time who lost their lives rushing gunmen so they could save others. >> what is it going to take? and just steps from the world trade center reflecting pool, a new 9/11 memorial is in the works. name the 9/11 memorial that's is for the thousands of men and women who have gotten sick or died from illnesses to the toxic

dust unleashed when the world trade center collapsed in 2001. the memorial will sit where recovery workers once entered the site in the aftermath of 9/11. and incorporate melted down steel recovered from the original world trade center. because so many pair resrished aftermath of the attacks, the memorial will not contain the names. the nypd has lost 203 members since the attacks and 193 members of the fndy have passed away from 9/11-related illnesses. >> mika, i always remember you talking about, even before so many people started dying, talking about being down, reporting for cbs, at ground zero, before the buildings fell and for the next several weeks. and you just said intuitively, you knew that something was wrong. and you immediately got a shirt

and wrapped it around your mouth. and that's how you walked around for two weeks if you weren't on camera. >> it just didn't feel right. a lot of people were wearing masks. you could tell something was wrong with the air. actually, the local station, investigative reporter there, broke one of the first stories of the people who were dieing from 9/11-related illnesses. and it was hard to get people to take it seriously at first. it was very serious. >> especially with the federal government at the time, jonathan, who was telling everybody that there was no danger. >> that's right. there were mixed messages. there was no consistency with what the government was saying. i was down there as well. with the new york daily news, you could tell, just breathe it in that something was off. so many firefighters and police officers. civilians who rushed down to help are still getting sick and dying. >> that is correct. >> and congress, by the way, if it hadn't been for jon stewart,

he came down to washington, with firefighters and police officers to lobby congress to get the funding for helping these people that are contracting and continue to suffer from this. and it has not been a proud moment for congress in terms of funding this issue. >> no. it's been hard and continuing to hard. coming up on "morning joe," is the case really closed on robert mueller's russia probe? republican senator and intel committee chair richard bird doesn't appear to believe so his company has subpoenaed donald trump jr. >> he's got a jerry falwell jr. look going there. >> and julia ansley will join us as well. plus, i sat down with dr. jill biden in philadelphia yesterday. we'll show you that including that amazing story meeting a student while her house burned down.

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>> national reporter for nbc news julia ansley is with us. nbc news editor-in-chief benjamin willis. and historian, jon meacham. he's an nbc news and msnbc contributor and co-author of the forthcoming book "songs of america" which he worked on with tim mcgraw. and yesterday, on the show -- >> i've got to correct you a moment. can i hold on, that's not the tim mcgraw. that is willie, tennis player. >> yes. >> yes, he's jon's doubles partner. they were runners-up tournament.

>> and on the show the other day, he said i don't want to go all meacham with you. >> it is timothy ferguson mcgraw iii. >> mean drop shot on timothy. >> and moved to nashville. >> that guy, yeah. >> all right. >> no, i got -- as michael be beshlaw says, what book do we write go to the average age. >> let's get to the news. the senate intelligence committee has subpoenaed one of the president's children as part of its russia investigation. the republican-led panel demanding that donald trump jr. answer questions about his previous testimony before senate investigators over moscow's election interference.

the move first reported by axios, marks the first congressional subpoena that we know of against one of president trump's children. benjamin, what do you think of this move? >> well, i -- let's start with -- the house vote is a total nonsurprise. the senate move kind of seems like it comes out of nowhere. except that the senate intelligence committee, unlike everything that's gone on the house side for the last two years has been been pretty relentlessly bipartisan. pretty quiet and pretty cooperative. and i think senator richard bird deserves credit for tha s credi. what's behind the subpoena, i don't know. there's clearly sentiment on the committee that the chair either shares or respects that there are questions they need to

answer don junior before wrapping up their work. i think that's a sign, you know, that he continues to run and has run a pretty professional investigation. and i'm sure he's going to get hammered by critics in the republican world. but i think he, you know, really deserves a lot of credit for sort of quietly, in a business-like way, doing the investigative work that the situation requires. >> julia, we paint with a broad brush and talk about how shamful -- not you, we around this table, i don't want to put it on myself alone -- we talk about how shameful the republicans have acted on capitol hill in this investigation. burr, though, richard, has been a notable exception. there's been a couple of things that critics have pounded him for, sharing some information with the white house. but this is a bold move. he is being attacked by don junior. and don junior's little

sycophants. but he and warner have run a bipartisan intel committee. and in 2019, that is a pretty extraordinary political achievement, isn't it? >> it is, joe. i mean, in this case, burr is someone who really stands alone. he's quiet, he's stoic, just as ben pointed out. in this case, this is a pretty aggressive move to subpoena donald trump jr. this is after he refused to voluntarily come before this committee, this is after he refused to answer questions from the grand jury. and it's after he pretty much came out unscathed from the mueller report. because if you can remember, in volume one of the report, when they get into the conspiracy collusion question, they get into the june 2016 meeting at trump tower, about whether or not donald trump jr. took was something of value. that's key in any campaign finance violation. and mueller basically concluded that it wasn't a willful

violation of that. but a lot of people have debated that decision. and now, we'll be able to get into that question as he comes or at least has to respond to the subpoena. and then, of course, there's a question of the moscow trump tower negotiations. because michael cohen and his testimony directly contradicted what donald trump jr. had told the senate judiciary committee in september of 2017. donald trump jr. said he was peripherally involved. really didn't know a whole lot about the negotiations. in fact, michael cohen said he briefed ivanka and donald trump jr. at least ten times. so that doesn't sound peripheral. and i think these are the questions at the heart of this. so, yes, william burr will come out of this perhaps as one of the people not rattled by the political waves here. and that's key after robert mueller closing up shop. and we no longer have him in that position to do so. still ahead on "morning joe," my wide ranging interview with dr. jill biden.

we talk about her journey as a teacher, mother and could-be first lady. you're watching montgomery montgomer "morning joe," you'll be right back. 'll be right back we call it the mother standard of care. it's the idea that if our mothers were diagnosed with cancer, how would we want them to be treated? that's exactly how we care for you. with answers and actions. to hear your concerns, quiet your fears, lift your spirits.

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." jill biden has a real shot at becoming the nation's first lady. but that title would hardly define the accomplished educator, author and mother. i sat down with dr. biden in philadelphia yesterday for an in-depth discussion about her own journey. public and private. there are issues, she writes about in her new book "where the light enters: building a family, discovering myself." here now is that conversation. >> so, the book is so personal. i mean, at times, it's even intimate. and it's also very clear in reading your story that you're

not a natural republic person. >> no. >> you don't run to the cameras. >> right. >> why did you write it? >> you know, i didn't start out to write this type of book. i started out to talk about the incredible people i met during our administration. and i talked to the publishers. and i started to tell them what i wanted and they said, huh-uh. no. we want a book that only you could write. these are other people's stories. we want your story. so, i started to think about it. and i'm a pencil and paper person. and i just started writing and writing and writing. and then when i came back to them, i said, okay, these are the -- this is what i came up with. these are the stories that i want to tell. this is what has happened in my life with joe. and they loved it. i mean, right away, they loved it, so i knew i was on the right

track. >> you write so beautifully about life's joys and losses often intermingling. >> uh-huh. >> because of joe's story and the two of you blending a family. so, let me ask about that. because when you were having a baby. and you have hiysterical storie with your mother's pregnancy, which is hilarious, which i would have said, too. i would have made her write it down. you brought the boys into it, hunter and beau. >> i did. >> i guess it was important for them to feel ownership. >> so, actually, when i thought i was pregnant, i didn't tell joe, i went to the boys and said, hey, guys, i think i'm pregnant. i think we're going to have a baby. >> how little are they? >> little boys like 7 and 8 -- maybe older, neighbmaybe 9, 10.

isla i'd have to figure it out. i said let's go get a pregnancy test. joe was in the senate so i had to be careful that no one would see us. i put on sunglasses and put a scarf over my head. we drove to the riteaid, i took a prelg nancgnancy test. and when the boys came home from school, i said i'm pregnant but i want you to be the one to tell daddy. we waited and when joe got off the train and came home. they said, daddy, we have a surprise to tell you. they told joe we were going to have a baby. >> oh, my god, he must have loved that way. coming from the boys. >> and they loved it. you know, i wanted them to be a part of it. i didn't want them to feel like, oh, here's a new baby coming in, and what about us. so, it was important to me that they feel like they have

ownership. >> bringing the family together. >> yes. >> also looming in the loss of a child, you write about naomi, the baby girl that joe lost in the accident. you actually speak out loud how hard it was for you to comprehends. you write in marriage, even a long one, there are some parts of yourself you visit alone, you have to see that in joe. his life has been marked by cruel losses and yet his faith in god and hope remains. after the loss of beau, are you even more blown away at how he's able to do that? >> uh-huh. at his resilience. you know, joe does lean heavily on his faith. that's what gets him through so many tough times. and i think having suffered three losses, i do marvel at it.

just because now that we've lost beau and i've experienced that myself, i know how difficult that is. but that's, you know, it's just been -- i don't know. he has a lot of fortitude. he has a lot of strength. and going forward i think, you know, as we go on this next journey, i mean, i know that joe is strong. and he can handle anything that comes our way. >> everybody grieves differently. how did -- you raised these two boys. you talk about how that bond is no different than a natural born child? >> no, not different at all. as a matter of fact, i have to remind myself that i didn't give birth to beau and hunter. you know, it's just so natural. and i did write in the book where, you know, i think i never

treated them any differently. joe never treated them any differently. and one day, hunter said to me, mom, i know you love us all the same because you yell at ashley just like you yell at us. is so, they didn't feel any difference at all. i think i worked hard at that. and i wanted to make sure that they all felt equally loved. >> the passing of beau, how it impacted you. you try and describe it. it's like life is never the same. and you can be happy, but it's not as pure. how is every day without him? >> well, you know, a piece of you is missing. and you just don't forget it. i mean, it just doesn't leave you. it's not -- you know, when you lose your parents, for instance, i mean, it's painful, yes. but throughout your whole life, you're conditioned, your parents -- >> the natural order. >> yes, it's natural order.

but when you lose a child. it's so throws your whole life out of kind of perspective, i guess. and i never thought beau would die. i mean, throughout his whole illness, i clung to that hope that he was going to live. and they said 1% of people who get glioblastoma, brain cancer, survive. i thought why can't he be that 1%. >> right. >> and i was so convinced because he was so special that god was going to let him -- he was going to be the one. and until the morning he died, i mean, i just -- i just held on to that. and never gave up. >> moving forward, campaigning with one less biden it just isn't the same.

is it in some ways for him? does he feel like there's something about him that you bring along with you as you take on this challenge? >> oh, he's with us every day. and, you know, he was a politician himself, attorney general. >> i know, quite a guy. >> yeah. when things would get rough on the campaign trail, i would call him up and say what do you think about this or that. you've got to call dad and tell him this or that. or he'd dot reverse, mom, you've got to tell dad. we leaned on one another a lot. and yes, there is always and will always be that empty seat at the table. that empty place in my heart, in joe's heart. you know, in our children's heart. our grandchildren. but i have to believe that he's looking down and thinking, yeah, mom, do this. do this. >> so, let's talk about it. before we talk about do this campaign for president joe biden, i want to talk about your

job. because i love this story about your career as a teacher. >> oh, thanks. >> and this is an incredible -- i love this. it reminds me of my life. you start off by going on one sunday morning in 2004, our house was struck by lightning and caught fire and burned down. >> yes. >> it's just like another day in the biden family. and you talk, joe's on "meet the press," and you're running around, you're in your robe. the house fills up with smoke. the fire's in the walls. you're running out outside. you're shaking. you're trying to get the cat. the cat won't come out, she finally comes out disappears for three day. in the midst of this chaos, and your house is burning down. you go suddenly a firefighter came toward me, calling mrs. biden. i looked at him dreading what could go wrong, what else can we lose today? do you remember, he asked, it's harry. a giant smile across his face. he had been one of my students

at delaware technical community college, yeah, harry, i said, standing there drenched. i do remember you. he was a sweet kid who had taken my class twice. for a brief moment, i laughed at the absurdity of this routine. and felt a tinge of pride that he has gone on becoming his pride a firefighter. but your pride, a tinge of pride, having students even then. what a moment. >> it was a moment. and you know, one of the things that strikes me, i mean, that was -- i mean, i hear from my students so often. they're just such a big part of my life. i'm still teaching. i was grading papers on the train that i have to post tomorrow. >> okay. >> and another funny part of that, i was so afraid to tell joe. i called beau because he lived

nearby. he came running down the driveway, mom, mom, are you okay. he said, i'm fine. he said, let's call dad. i said, no, let's not call him because he's going on air. he'll be upset. let's tell him afterwards. so, we called joe. when he came home, he came walking down the driveway. i said, joe, joe, look at our house. it's burning. and he said, great. now we can fix all of the things that we made a mistake on when we built it. so, i think that just shows really joe's sense of -- >> positive outlook. >> -- positive. >> you'd be dealing with the contractors, though. >> exactly. boy, you must have been there. >> yeah, exactly. so, you felt it was important to go back to teaching even when you became vice president. >> exactly. >> to know your value, tell me why. >> well, i didn't feel like i could really just live his life.

teaching is my passion. i love teaching. i'm still doing it after 34 years. and i went to him and i said, joe, i've got to teach. and he said, well, yeah, go ahead. i think you should. and i talked to michelle about it. and she said, yes, go for it. i think it was like seven days after we were -- after the inauguration. i was in the classroom. >> wow. >> so, it was -- it was really great. and not all my students knew i was second lady. >> yeah, how did that work? >> well, i tell a funny story that not everybody knew, of course. my students. i just would write my name on the board. >> dr. biden. >> just call me dr. b. i didn't say biden. at the end of the first semester, one of the girls came in for her grade conference. she said to me, dr. b., last night i saw you on the television with michelle obama.

>> oh, how hilarious. >> i said, yes. and i yelled to my mom, i said, mom, you know, come here, this is my english teacher. and she came out and she said that is not your english teacher that is the second lady of the united states. so, to this day, some of my students know and some of them don't know. i try to keep it that way. >> an older student came up to you and said i know who you are. and you said, and we're going to keep it that way. that's just between you and me. let's talk about what's ahead because if you become first lady, i don't think you can be a teacher. i think it might be just too much. >> yeah, well, i would want to make sure that my students are safe. but, boy, would i love to do it. >> it's your identity. >> it is. it's my passion, it's what i love. so, maybe we could figure out some way. i'm taking nothing for granted. but if it ever happened, what

would that say about the work of a spouse, right? to be working. i mean not that first lady isn't a full-time job, believe me, i've seen it up close, it is a full-time job. >> we know people who know joe biden. we know a lot of people who love joe biden. in terms of him running for president, some worried out loud to us that maybe he's too old. or maybe there's just no way he could sustain losing for a third time. so, what do you know about joe that they don't? >> joe has incredible energy. he has incredible passion. you know, joe is a unifier, i think at this time in history. our country seems so divided. and people are saying to me all time, joe has to run, joe has to run. we have to bring people together

again. we have to unite people. and for those people who say joe is too old, i don't think he's too old, certainly. but they'll have to -- that's up to the voters. and the voters will make that decision when they see him out on the campaign trail. when they see him -- when they meet him at their school or at a rally. they'll make their own judgment. >> this past experience running, some would say he's a hot head. he has these awkward moments, this and that, whatever. is he wiser? do you think that those experiences have brought wisdom to his approach? you know, what's going to make the third time the charm, do you think? >> it is wiser. he's learned a lot. he's been vice president for eight years. he got a lot of experience that way. and just being, you know, times have changed. and he's been out on the trail. he's learned a lot. and so going forward i think he knows where he wants to go.

and he's headed in the right direction. >> and in closings your family has been through so much, and he's going to be running against potentially i'd say dirtiest campaigner that we've seen in our lifetimes. how will you protect your family from the pain that a presidential campaign can cause? >> we have talked about that. >> yeah. >> we brought our kids in. our grandkids in, we told them when we decided to run, if you don't want pop to do this, we're not going to do it. but to a child, they said, pop has to do this. he has to be president. he would make the best president. so we will do it like we've always done it. as a family. and it doesn't mean it's not going to be hard. it doesn't mean my heart is not going to be broken when some negative comments come out about, you know, joe and i are

used to it, but not the kids. and it's going to be hard but it's going to be worth it because joe's going to make a great president. >> dr. jill biden. thank you very much. >> thanks. >> thank you. thanks. >> thank you ♪ limu emu & doug what do all these people have in common, limu? [ paper rustling ] exactly, nothing. they're completely different people, that's why they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual. they'll only pay for what they need! [ gargling ] [ coins hitting the desk ] yes, and they could save a ton. you've done it again, limu. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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he had a choice between slippy joe and crazy bernie. and i'll take anybody -- let's just pick somebody, please, let's start this thing. let's start it. >> one of the democrats today said that he, it's a he, sleepy person, said that he heard from a lot of foreign leaders. and they want him to be president. of course, they do. so they can continue to rip off the united states. of course, they do. of course. i think if i heard that, i'd never vote for him. we have a young man buttigieg, buttigieg, they say edge, everyone. he's got a great chance, they say. he'll be great. representing us against president xi of china. that will be great. i want to be in that room, i want to watch that one.

and beto, beto, boy, has hay fallen like a rock. what happened to beto? >> that's president trump in florida sounding off about the 2020 democratic field during his campaign rally. joining us now msnbc chief correspondent and host of the beat. and moveon.org msnbc contributor. claire mccaskill back as well. claire, i'm not going to ask you to make an endorsement. >> good. >> if you were president trump or listening to president trump, who would you be most afraid of in this large and growing field? >> you know, it's hard. all of them, really, the ones he mentioned particularly. i think probably joe biden. just because joe biden exudes i got this. >> uh-huh. >> i can handle this job. i know this job. i'm experienced at this job. and joe appeals, you know, it

freaked the president out when all of those firefighters were rallying for joe biden. i mean, he sees joe biden as going at his weakest place, which are working people who haven't gotten much from this guy. and so, i think he's probably most worried about joe. but he should be worried about a bunch of them. and i think we were talking earlier, jon and i about what's different in 2020 from 2016. the thing that's different is the unifying force that trump represents to the democratic party and to independent voters. there's just going to be a lot more people, regardless of whether or not your candidate becoming the nominee. you still are not going to stay home because you do not want donald trump in the oval office for another second. >> we know the president is pool obsessed. he's looking at these polls with joe biden with 20%, 25%. >> first of all, the lighting at

that rally looks like the president was in a battle scene of "game of thrones." yes, the president we know, watches polls obsessively. people around him are most concerned with joe biden. that has not changed. in fact, there are top advisers that have told the president stop talking about joe biden so much. stop elevating him. stop making it seem like it's already in the general election. you're giving him oxygen here. and if the party had moved too far to the left, biden would trip up, whatever it might be, he wouldn't be the guy standing at the end. it's so early. but certainly, biden has come out of the gate at a blazing start. and that's been noticed by the white house. they feel biden is the best person to best compete in certain demographics. and geographically in those rust

belt states that were key to trump in 2016. he's heavily banking on again. >> i think, kareem, the first time we heard him speak of mayor pete. the name is hard to pronounce. i guess when he gets to the premier of china that the mayor of south bend, indiana, is not up to standing up against world leaders? >> i think what he's saying, the president is scared of all them. he's been worried about biden. he's tweeted about him, really in an obsessive way as people are telling him to please stop. i think his tweets have hemmed joe biden. and he's had a strong launch and running away with it with the pack. but it's still very, very early. and the reason why i say donald trump is scared of all of them

is because it is true he does watch the polls, he does watch television. and the polls show almost every candidate that is running in the democratic primary beats donald trump right now. once again, it's still very early. and we have a president who is historically unpopular. and if you look at the gallup poll ing, he's never gone above 50% which is rare for a modern day president. and even with the economy as good as it is, he's still incredibly unpopular. so, he should be worried, he's in danger of losing his re-election. like i said, it's still very early and there's a lot of work to be done. >> and he's talking an awful lot right now anyway about joe biden. ari, let's talk about the news on capitol hill. the house judiciary committee led by jerry nadler approving contempt, holding the attorney general in contempt. nancy pelosi will hold a vote at

some time down the road. but what are the implications of this as a legal question? let's say the house does what the judiciary committee did, holds the attorney general in contempt? then what? is this a long protracted court fight that goes past 2020? >> if the house votes to hold the attorney general in contempt which is be the earliest on the job attorney general has been held in contempt in history, then, yes, the courts figure out whether or not they want to adjudicate this and saying effectively, apart from this clash, that they're not going to force more stuff out. so it's a very real thing. there's a lot of fire in washington. it's a very real thing that provides a mechanism when you have a clash between two executive and legislative to go to the third branch and say who's right? i think that's why we've seen such a strong response from the

trump administration, they're worried, clearly, that they may lose part of this. >> you get the sense, ari, a bit that congress is looking at it with shock saying there are some rules that say you have to show up to testify. there are some rules that say you got to answer subpoenas. and the white house as claire pointed outside earlier is saying we're not doing any of that. we're building a wall around the white house and you're not getting anything. >> in fairness to trump's frustration, obviously not the first time we've seen the clashes over the limits and edges of it. it's not only democrats saying because they have disagreements with president trump, it's a historical fact that we have never seen a president take the basically nearly lawless position that there's no need to comply with congressional subpoenas whatsoever. it is looney tunes. >> on the part of the president's strategy and stone wall to invoke the executive

privilege, talk about what the courts have ruled on before. like that's going to be part of this, one of the two fronts that these two are fighting in the court, what sort of precedent is there? what's the time line? >> executive privilege can be quite strong for certain executive activities. certainly, for a confidential discussion, say, around national security. and there's also a separate other related privileges that are real. the problem here is, number one, they would have appeared to have waived the privilege of a lot of key underlying material. number two, you don't need to be a lawyer. everyone remembers bill barr saying well, i've got my categories. and one of them is privacy for third parties. that may be a reasonable thing. in fact, courts might say those are reasonable redactions. but i'm not familiar with a lot of cases that say third party privacy for peripheral figures, i.e., not important people around the president, are protected by presidential executive privilege. you know, the idea that the privilege itself is going to extend beyond should i reference it --

>> senator mccaskill is watching "game of thrones." >> sorry, i don't know how it happened. >> she's watching the battle -- >> i don't know how that could happen. >> all i can tell, your phone has something fun and entertaining than our news. >> no. let me talk about contempt. i was involved in finding someone in contempt in the senate not too long ago. >> yeah. >> ceo and people at back page refused to show up for a hearing. and rob portman and i, of course, subpoenaed them. they refused to show up. we got a vote from the senate for contempt. it was unanimous. went all the way up to the courts. they appealed it all the way to the supreme court. we won. and they were required then to show up and to give us their documents. it took a while. and the vote was unanimous in the senate. what impact do you think it will have on the court that this vote on contempt appears to going to

be a party line vote? i mean, does that weaken the position, do you think, ari, in the courts as to the finding that the contempt is well-placed? >> well, as you say, senator, i think that certainly weighs on part of the analysis of whether this looks like a legal proceeding to get information which is the congressional investigative power that you wielded or does it look like political effort. we do know from the holder proceeding which was more party line, that still led to a ruling that people may have heard about, judge amy berman jackson. he's a straight shooter. she's known to dig in and get to it. she still found, you know what, even though there would be obviously a whole lot of partisanship of eric holder she found that documents should get turned over and they were. by the way, the grand jury material is a much harder call. >> it is. >> and there are good reasons why all or much of grand jury

material is not just handed over to the public or congress all the time. i think people know that. that's totally different than as i mentioned something that barr is trying to hide. >> and kkarine, in the mueller report, there are reasons why some of that information will remain redacted and should remain redacted. >> right, there's just so much more to that. we need to get to the bottom, it should be unredacted for at least everyone in congress. so they can see what's going on. my question to ari is so we know that the committee found barr in contempt. it's going to go to the house. they're going to vote on it as a body. what is the legal jeopardy for barr? what does that mean exactly for him legally? >> i think the legally jeopardy is low. for normal people, like the

senator was talking about, sooner or later, what contempt can mean, you're jailed in realtime. if the court ultimately says turn it over you're in contempt which means you could be jailed this week, i don't know a lot of accountants who are going to throw themselves in prison to protect the tax returns or people at the irs, if it gets to that point. in contrast, people like the sitting attorney general, the president himself are not typically held by the courts to be sanctioned in realtime that way. i don't think, to put it in plain english, i don't think there's any danger here, even with negative rulings that mr. barr would have to leave the justice department tole go lgol on contempt. >> he would have to give up the documents? >> yes. 100%. >> that's really the key. he would lose a big case on the power of the executive branch. >> and that power then would remind people that this is not just fire and fury and rhetoric. there are chance here and there

say rule of law system. and maybe some of what they're hiding is stuff they don't want people to know that would affect the way congress deals with open issues. again, to land on it willie, is the question what do you do about the fact that the mueller report substantial evidence that the sitting president committed in office. what do you do with that? that's the big thing? >> it could be a long road ahead. thank as always. the beat at 6:00 p.m. on msnbc. during the rally, president trump made the case between washington and beijing. >> by the way, you see the tariffs we're doing? because they broke the deal. they broke the deal. they broke the deal. they can't do that. so, they'll be paying. i just announced that we'll increase tariffs in china.

we won't back down until china stops cheating our workers and stealing our jobs. and that's what's going to happen. otherwise, we don't have to do business with them. >> for more, let's go to cnbc's sara eisen at the new york stock exchange. sara, good morning. the president has promised to raise the tariffs from 10% to 25%. is that going to happen? >> so far, it's on track to lap, willie. and this just adds to the complete change in tone from the administration just in the last few days when it comes to china trade talks. he's got the tariff threat out there. so, as of now, as of 12:01 a.m. friday morning, tariff rates are set to increase from 10% where they are now to 25% on $200 billion worth of goods that come into this country from kleichin. that will affect the u.s. consumer. we're talking agriculture goods. furniture that show up in

stores. prices that have been absorbed already by the u.s. consumer so that could be very painful. the rhetoric also definitely rachets up t s up the tone ahea these meeting. they do have the stop negotiator, and the market things that's very important. as for what the fashgmarket is expecting. the bottom line there is too much at take for the u.s. economy and chinese economy not to make this deal happen. but i will tell you, as of last weekend, there's a lot more nervousness around the prospects for that deal and just when that deal is going to happen. if you look at futures right now, we're looking at another big drop for stocks at the open. dow is down by 117 points. that would be every day this week, the u.s. stock market, the s&p has fallen. we're off about 2.25% coming into the week coming into today. >> the market clearly waiting to see what happens and if there's

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this is so important. mtv has partnered with the organization every mother counts and the black mommas matter alliance. the new campaign save our moms to sound the alarm on maternal mortality. about 700 women die each year in the united states from largely preventable pregnancy related complications. the centers for disease control and prevention reported

wednesday the pregnancy related morality rate of african-americans, american-indians and alaska native women are three times higher than that of white women. joining us the vice president of social impact for mtv, vh1 and logo, and the co-chair of the black health caucus, democratic congresswoman emma adams of north carolina and co-host of "morning joe" first look is joining us for this conversation. and karine jean-pierre is still with us as well. good to have you all on board. i don't think a lot of people think about this as something that we're struggling with at this time, you know, that something from long ago, maternal mortality, and yet it's so real. >> yes, actually over the past 30 years the rates have doubled in this country, making the u.s. the worst country in the developed world in terms of safety for mothers and giving birth. that's why we wanted to launch this campaign to bring those

stats to the forefront and use the power of story telling to hopefully ignite change. >> what is behind that? what is the reason for that? we think of ourselves as such a developed country and we are, especially in terms of medicine. what is driving these statistics? >> there are number of facts, complex issue from access to health care, lack of information, unconscious bias, of course. there are too many factors to name but what we want to focus on with this campaign is through every pregnancy, a mother is surrounded by her support net work, friends, family, partners. so important for us to step up and be there for her and support her. we see those folks as the first line of defense when a mother is speaking up about complications. >> talk to us about the debate where you work about health care and what this administration has done to push back the progress

in terms of accessibility to health care for every american, especially their efforts to cut back on medicaid, which we know is a lifeline for so many moms to be around this country. >> certainly, we have to expand medicaid and we certainly need to make sure there's greater access, there is access to health care for all people. that's important. you're going to get sick, you need medical attention and that means you have to have that access. we've had a number of debates here about actually trying to push back on the health care that we currently have, and that's causing a lot of stress and a lot of problems in communities, particularly communities of low-wealth communities. >> yasmine, you just had a baby. it seems like you just had her. and there's so much fear leading up to childbirth and to go into

it thinking you may not have all of the care that you need, that is just -- it seems like an added burden that we shouldn't be facing today. >> there's so much of an unknown in the entire situation. i think what's most shocking to me is the racial disparity, how african-american women are three times as likely as white women to die because of pregnancy-related causes. not only because of prenatal car but post natal car. because of the fact they're seeking out help for these hospitals and not being bullying. think about serena williams, access to the best health care in the system, knows her body inside and out and she wasn't even believed when she thought she had a blood clot, which she did, and they saved her life. she saved her own life because of it because she identified that. what needs to change in the health care system amongst health care professionals that this does not continue? >> the first thing we need to do is make sure we as mothers are more empowered and people around us are empowered to speak up

like serena did. that was a critical aspect of her life being saved. i know my own personal experience after the first of in i first child where i was experiencing pain and unexplained bleeding and i flagged it for the medical staff, but just wasn't being believed, wasn't getting attention and and it wasn't until my husband stepped in and be made a fu made a fuss that i finally got the care i needed. so we all need to be part of advocating for mothers. >> first of all, i have to say this is a public health emergency. so i do want to thank -- i do want to thank "morning joe" for giving this air time. i want to thank mtv for the psa, i want to thank the congresswoman and her colleagues for creating the caucus. we have to really think about this. the u.s., which has tremendous resources, is a deadly place for a pregnant woman. and especially for a woman of color and especially for african-american women, black

women. and that is a scary, scary thought, which is why it is a public health issue. so i want to ask the congresswoman, i know ayanna pressley introduced a companion piece of legislation to what senator booker introduced called the healthy mom act which will hopefully expand 60 days to a year after a woman has a baby. i want to ask you what are the other challenges, the systemic challenges that the caucus is going to study and look at? >> first of all, thank you for your question. thank you for your interest in this issue. as you're right, it is a paubl health emergency as far as i'm concerned. it's very personal to me as a mother and grandmother and two granddaughters and daughter who had difficulties in both of her pregnancies. as you said, it doesn't matter what your socioeconomic status is. it happens. we started this caucus with

lauren underwood, a nurse here, first term in congress. we want to expand the knowledge across the country. we want to elevate the knowledge for the congress, and for our staff to make sure we understand and then to find from legislative solutions pulling together all of the partners, black mamas matter as well. because i believe that if we come to the table and we can strategies and form late solutions that will help us solve this emergency. >> all right. we're going to revisit this. this is an emergency. and it's really good that we have brought this to light and talk about it more. congresswoman ail congresswoman alma adams, and, you're not allowed to work any

more today so go home. you're wonderful. >> i just listened to this conversation about maternal mortality, it's another issue in america where so many of us take something for granted that we have the care we need, access to the care we need and there are a lot of people in this country who don't. >> we have mother's day coming up. thank our mothers. >> thank you, mom. love you. >> and thank you. >> thank you, mom, i love you. i will see her tomorrow. >> definitely will. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage now. >> thanks, mika. i'm stephanie ruhle. a lot to cover starting with our extraordinary team of nbc reporters here with brand-new information on the most important stories of the day you need to know. we will start with a republican-led committee issuing a subpoena to donald trump jr. this on the same day the house judiciary committee votes to hold attorney general bill barr in contempt of court. how about an unfriend? one of fa