my thanks to jonathan, sam, ron, alexi and to all of you for watching. i'm nicolle wallace. mtp daily with chuck todd starts now. >> if it is thursday, president trump's crises are colliding. ♪ good evening. i'm chuck todd here in washington. welcome to "meet the press" daily. what a crazy day in washington. but here is what really matters. what kind of stomach does the president have for a crisis in whether a constitutional showdown or economic downturn or military conflict or all at the same time, because he is a juggling a lot. he held a lengthy press

conference and it is clear he does not want a military conflict amid rising tensions with iran, north korea and venezuela. he has made the economy the center piece of his re-election campaign so unlikely that he wants a full blown trade war with china as he seemed to hint. but if he embraced one crisis, it is that constitutional showdown with democrats. today nancy pelosi called the battle a full blown, quote, constitutional crisis as democrats move to hold the attorney general ib made amayber officials in contempt of congress for stone walling. here is what president trump said today when i asked about mr. 3450mueller testifying. >> bob mueller is no friend with mine. i had conflicts with him. listen to this. you judge-46 call him -- call h. he has a business dispute with me. your judge as a fantastic relationship with james comey. well, he is a part of this. he lied to congress.

he leaked. a liar, a leaker. and your judge has a situation where he wanted to become the fbi director. to me it looks like a redo. here is what happened. the report comes back, it is perfect. beautiful. no collusion. no crime. there never was a crime. it was a hoax. it was a witch hunt. i'll tell what you they are asking, they are asking about how did this whole thing start. that's what people want to know. >> so there he is pretty definitive. could con tras that tone with when he was asked about iranians. >> what they should be doing is calling me up, sitting down, we can make a deal, a fair deal. we just don't want them to have nuclear weapons. not too much to ask. and we would help put them back into great shape. they are in bad shape right now. i look afford to the day where we can actually help iran. we're not looking to help iran.

i want them to be strong and great and have a great economy. >> yes, he wants to meet with the iranians. north korea just conducted their second miss and i will launchil. and president trump says his relationship can women continues. there could be a major escalation with the trade fight with chooi with china, but the president spoke about the letter when coming to an agreement. and now in the "washington post", making it clear that the president has little interest in engaging in a military conflict. but the conflict he does seem to relish is the one that he is having with the democrats in congress. let's dive in with some experts. carol lee, our reporter from bloomberg news and donna he had

wa edwards, and also from the american enterprise institute. carol, i'll start but.had edwards, and also from the american enterprise institute. carol, i'll start but. it is like the president has all the burners are on the stove and he has this showdown with congress. that is one that he is putting his hand on the burner. everything else, it is a little dovish on tariffs, dovish with iran and dovish with venezuela. >> and if you are looking down the road and thinking about 2020, which he is, some of these -- the way he has approached these various problems doesn't necessarijive way that he campaigned. looking at venezuela for instance. that is a situation where this is a president who ran on not being an intervention allegist. a and here he is in venezuela and thing have not gone the way they thought they would and he is sort of at risk of getting into a situation like obama did saying assad's days are

numbered. and saying he wants to talk to iran, if he is- >> how is this not the blaring headline? the president -- i'm old enough to remember when barack obama said he would meet with iran and it blew up all the washington. >> and he said it twice. ed a fr yesterday he said he looks forward to talking with iran to work out a deal. i think the thing i think is worth looking huat is how they soften or tweak the 12 steps before they would sit down and have negotiations. >> so it is worth pointing out, we may look at this and say why is this the president doing this. is th this is the exact presidency he wants. >> it is important to divide the kon conflict into categories. he likes political tribes. it creates a rallying base.

he doesn't like foreign policy crises because he campaigned on ending war, against military intervention. which is why he seems to be taking this step towards wr ira. and on trade, he keeps saying like china wants to make a deal. butter the stock market up when it is skeptical. so, yes, it is about the kinds of crises. president trump likes some of them. russia squarely in the kind that he likes. >> and let me play one more bite from the president on iran. this is about john kerry. >> i don't know has strong views on things, but that is okay. i actually temper john, which is pretty amazing, isn't it? i'm the one that tempers him. but that is it okay. i have different sides. i mean, i have john bolton and other people that are a little more dovish than him.

and ultimately i make the decision. no, i like john. i get very good advice from john. >> that was john wbolton with generals. and here is the iran quote i wanted for you. >> what i'd like to see with iran, i'd like to see them call me. john kerry speaks to them a lot. john kerry tells them not to call. that is a violation of the low act. and frankly, he should be prosecuted on that. >> i'm in the middle of a whole -- trying to -- there was a time that by the way that donald trump loved john kerry more than george w. bush by the way for what it is worth. one-on-one with iran and rouhani. the president -- iranians are likely to take him up on this when they watch kim jung-un. what will john bolton react on that? >> i don't think that i don't know is interested in the united states talking to anybody including kim jung-un. so i think -- i've said this many times before.

i think the president has a method in his madness on foreign policy. i think that he thinks of the administration as the xwbad cop himself as the good cop. there is a major escalation on our part. yes, the right thing to do, but it is like a slap across their face and at the same time the president is like everything is beautiful and we really get along. on the iranian, he has made clear what he wants do is renegotiate the deal with them. my belief is that iranians will never come to the play. they will play this out until 2020 this tin the hopes that so else gets elected. >> you may be right. but what a spectacle that would be and it would put dnls in an interesting place. >> i think democrats have been in a position especially with iran of wanting to hold tight to the deem that the president has backed out of. and so at this stage, i think for democrats, they see the

president stirring the pot. i mean actually all over the globe now if you look at the various crises that he is and a half navigating. >> and by the way most of them are things thata half navigating. >> and by the way most of them are things that he is navigating because he created them. t tariff war. he created the north korea issue. they supported to support a coup in venezuela. they decided to get out of the iranian agreement. so all policy decisions that he is making and now problems. >> and i don't think that it is because he really believes that he can cut a deal. he is interested in them i think as major distractions from the real problem that he has domestically. and i think that for democrats, they can't go down the rabbit home of chasing the president around the world as he stirs the pot. >> i actually don't agree with you about that. i think that he really think that's can make a deal. i think he thinks barack obama was a lousy deal maker.

>> can he negotiate the same deal with raciran and say i hav better dee better deal? >> but it is not the obama deal. that is what getting him riled up. and so you could see -- yes, he would love to go in and get a deal even if it is a very similar type of deal or isn't exactly as you tough as outlined that it has to be. >> i think we all agree trump would love to actually sit down with rouhani, but saudis and israelis would go bonkers. two-thirds of the republican party would go bonkers. >> and we have yet to see an sx example of this great deal maker that he campaigned as. what foreign policy deal has he

struck. the document they signed was tooth rest. he has not made deals with democrats in congress for the most part.rest. he has not made deals with democrats in congress for the most part. he's had opportunities on prescription drugs. we're not seeing an example of the deal making that was central to his campaign message. >> iranians don't negotiate in the same way that north koreans. there is not a leader to leader. >> he rouhani. >> and the person to meet with is the ayatollah and that won't happen. >> and the president and his team are not willing to do the ground work before you'd actually cut a deal. so in every single instance, whether north korea, iran, he is not willing to do the ground work that lays a foundation that -- >> look what allowed the north

koreans to did to mio to mike p. >> and actually the funny thing about donald trump, he has managed to maneuver the iranians and chinese both into positions where if we knew what the heck we were doing, we would actually be able to be positioned to get a better deal. he is like a dog who caught the car. >> there is a world in which he succeeds on these issues. we can look back and say maybe there was great strategy, but we have yet to see that. >> one place where he is sure of himself and that is fighting the mueller report. he went after nadler and schiff today. >> now we have a good report. and now guys like jerry nadler, who i fought for many years successfully i might add, back in new york in manhattan, he was a manhattan congressman, i beat him all the time. and i come to washington and now i have to beat him again. over nothing. over nothing. over a hoax. and they know takes hoax. they are smart. nad letter a smart guy. schiff is a smart guy. when schiff goigoes to the

microphone, he is conning this whole country and he knows that. and he goes back into the room and he talks to his friends and he laughs because you that is the way life is. >> and if you are wondering what he is referring to, it has to do with an upper west side development when jerry nadler was in state politics there. but we're talking china and iran and frankly struggles that he is having to land these dials or try to get talks started. in some ways the file with the congressional democrats, papers over all of that. this is the headline rarn tthern the part that's is struggling with. >> and the good economy, he hasn't managed to take advantage of that. i think the president is clear that he will fight at every single instance whether it has

to do with his son or senior administration officials going in before congress. and it will force congress' hand. you could hear that from nancy pelosi. >> you were not guk hng-ho for impeachment six weeks ago. >> i might have been sikx week weeksing a go. >> is there a point where he is overreaching and his like hope that the democrats maybe go all the way, go too far? almost like he is hoping that the democrats overreach and he overreaches in trying to get them to overreach. >> they are locked in a death match and it is bad for both sides. we talked about how it is bad for the democrats to be single mindedly obsessed with donald trump to the collusion x. collusion of delivering anything for the american people in the run up to the 2020 election.

for 2kud, it is utterly insane for him not to manage congress in a way that he could. you know, senior officials have been subpoenaed before. many of them, democrats, republicans, and they slow roll and obfuscate. >> and just focus on your presidency. >> and he can't do that. he is choosing not to because this is a fight that he wants. >> he enjoys this fight. >> but both sides are at risk of overreach. both trying to calculate to get the other to go first. >> the president is pushing this to the brink and we have even this week in the way senior democrats are talking about the issue of impeachment. two most important house democrats nancy pelosi and jerry nadler saying we're in a constitutional crisis. nancy pelosi says we won't refuse to impeach him for political reasons. as to what so what do democrats do if they have no our option but

impeachment. >> they did get a lifeline from richard burr and we'll get to that in a bit. comi coming up as top democrats say we have reached a constitutional crisis, i'll talk to a leading democrat next. and plus republicans are turning on one of their own. it is not just the president slamming the republican-lid committee's decision to subpoena his son. many party lee erd leaders are in as well. ee erd leaders are j in as well where is gate 87? you should be mad at non-seasoned travelers. and they took my toothpaste away. and you should be mad at people who take unnecessary risks. how dare you, he's my emotional support snake. but you're not mad, because you have e*trade, whose tech helps you understand the risk and reward potential on an options trade it's a paste. it's not liquid or a gel. and even explore what-if scenarios. where's gate 87? don't get mad. get e*trade and start trading today.

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here'sshow me making it. like. oh! i got one. the best of amy poehler. amy, maybe we could use the voice remote to search for something that you're not in. show me parks and rec. from netflix to prime video to live tv, xfinity lets you find your favorites with the emmy award-winning x1 voice remote. show me the best of amy poehler, again. this time around... now that's simple, easy, awesome. experience the entertainment you love on x1. access netflix, prime video, youtube and more, all with the sound of your voice. click, call or visit a store today. we've talked about approaching a constitutional crisis. we're now in it. >> yes, i agree with chairman nadler. the administration has decided that they are not going to honor their oath of office. >> whether it is a constitutional crisis or

constitutional confrontation, i'll let you guys be the choice. maybe i'll stick with confrontation this week. >> do you agree with congressman nadler that we're inko constitutional crisis? >> we are. >> it is a confrontational crisis. how is that for their splitting. >> there you go. welcome back. it depends on which democrat you ask. and as the white house and attorney general bill barr continue to stone wall house democratic party investigations, nancy pelosi is warning democrats may move to hold more trump administration officials in contempt. and as frustrations grow, "new york times" reports that the mood in the democratic caucus has shifted and the an tigppetir impeachment proceedings may be growing. someone in fafrp vor of putting

official in jail is joining us. i said you are a member of the oversight committee. my apologies for that. let's me ask you. i think it was earlier this week, you said that the leadership of the party has said that the 2018 midterms, democrats got the majority, yes, on health care. and other issues. but that you also believe voters were sdrovoting for democrats t hold the president accountable. when you said it that way, was that your way of signaling you're starting to grow more comfortable with impeachment? >> it certainly is my way of reminding everybody that we were also elected to provide oversight and accountability. i heard it everywhere in my re-election in 2018. and i heard it in neighboring jurisdictions. and so it it isn't just about o

agenda which is important, but also providing adult supervision to this president. voters wanted that. and so we have an xwags to fill the mandate that we got just last november. impeachment is a last resort. most democrats including me but it would be politically very costly. but we have to say what is our duty when we take the oath to protect the constitution. you asked are we in a constitutional crisis. it is really a constitutional crisis when the president says across the board i'm going to defy the entire legislative government. and what are we supposed to do? we can't roll over and play dead. we have an obligation to defend this branch of government and our constitutional framework. >> it seems that you have a lot

of bad options. many -- if you are trying to go sort of what now, many of the ways to compel could end up in the courts for years. just today, finally the courts made a decision about the "fast and furious" dispute between then house republicans and then attorney general eric holder. seven years, congressman connelly. black lives matter is n barack obama is not president. how do you get timely cooperation? >> yeah, well, chuck, as you know that is why i have said it is time to revive the practice of inherent contempt. for the first 150 years or so of our form of government, congress enforced its own subpoenas. and that practice kind of fell by the wayside, but it didn't mean we can't revive it. it is an inherent power of congress. supreme courts have recognized that. this is not a fringe idea. >> so what would you do with bill barr?

>> i might not start with the attorney general. but there are plenty of other people who have been subpoenaed who have decided to cooperate with donald trump's defiance. and i think that we can make some object lessons out of some of those folks. mr. mcgahn is now back in private practice at a law firm. i think that seeking disbarment for example with him if he doesn't cooperate if he die guys a legal subpoena. he is an officer of the court by virtue of being a practicing attorney and i think he puts himself in great peril. and were he to be disbarred, he couldn't pursue his livelihood. >> and in 235in fairness to mr. mcgahn, what is he supposed to do if the white house is exerts executive 3rprivilege over him? >> he would have to parse the law himself. i would make the case that he is now a private citizen. and, a, he cooperated with the

president's consent with mueller on 30 different occasions. they waived executive privilege then. they don't get to reassert it now with congress. secondly, he is a private citizen and he can do what he wants. the president didn't get to direct a private citizen as to his behavioring for forwar ingg. >> you know, the speak are today essentially said there is no schedule for a vote on contempt of congress for the attorney general. is in a her signaling that she still wants to negotiate? >> well, i think like most democrats, the speaker would prefer that the attorney general and the department of justice work with the congress on a reasonable solution that meets everybody's needs. but at the end of the day what she's also said, he lied before congress. that is a crime. he needs to cooperate with the committee. he refused to appear. and he refused to provide the unredacted mueller report. and therefore he is rightfully

going to be cited by contempt of congress. >> but then you can't -- >> withholding action on that on the floor gives him a little bit more time to try to work that out. >> i am just curious how do you plan on holding him accountable even if you hold him in contempt? i mean, you have to refer to his justice department to potentially prosecute him. >> yeah, that is a problem. but it is would be that unfortunately would be very time consume consumeing which is why i said i wouldn't begin with tbarr. >> but you won't get the mueller report. do you think he is likely to which ernst executive privilege over mueller individually from coming before congress? >> i think that we will get the mueller report one way or the other. i will point out to you that just yesterday, a judge insisted to getting the full unredact bed mueller report in the stone

case. so sooner or later the unredacted mueller report will be in the public domain and i think somebody sooner or later will give it to congress. but that didn't -- that begs the question of the legal fight, the don't tupgs at fig constitutional fight. >> and a virginia politics question. today ralph northam declared it second chance month. he did not refer to position. i know many of you wish he would go away, probably wish that lieutenant governor fair fax would go away. but they have been defiant and they have not. what kind of stain is this on virginia democrats? >> i don't know that takes stain on virginia democrats. i think it is a stain on the governor. all of the virginia democrats in the delegation have called for his resignation. the black caucus in our state legislature called for it. i believe almost every sitting

democrat in the statehouse has -- >> and yet he is still there. what does not tell you? >> we don't have legal key rours key course to rrecourse to remo him. so not much we can do. but virginia is the only state in the country that limits its governor to one term. >> all right. congressman connelly, thank you for coming on. >> my pleasure. up next, despite advice from his advisers to stay on the sidelines, president trump jabs at several of the democratic candidates last night. but did he once again signal which one he fears the most? oug. chocolate would be good... snacking should be sweet and simple. the delicious taste of glucerna gives you the sweetness you crave while helping you manage your blood sugar. glucerna. everyday progress

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welcome back. tonight in 2020 vision, president trump may be showing his hand on who he thinks is a threat to him on 2020 at least right now. >> a choice between sleepy joe and crazy bernie. let's just pick somebody please and let's start is it. pick somebody. >> president trump let us know which 2020 democrats are on his radar and his rally in florida. he took aim at joe biden. >> sleepy person. said he heard from a lot of foreign leaders and they want him to be president. of course they do. so they can continue to rip off the united states.

>> he also needled beto o'rourke. >> and beto. beto. boy, has he fallen like a rock. >> and he mocked pete buttigieg. >> buttigieg. they say edge, edge. he has a great chance. he'll be great. he'll be great. representing us against president xi. that will be great. that will be great. i want to be in that room, i want to watch that one. >> look, he practiced pronouncing buttigieg. that tells you something. anyway, bernie, biden and buttigieg. those are the potential opponents that the president attacked. what do they have in common ? makes you think of who the president thinks is the real threats. nothing on kamala. back after this. yeah, that too. i don't want any trade minimums. yeah, i totally agree, they don't have any of those. i want to know what i'm paying upfront. yes, absolutely. do you just say yes to everything?

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for my son after being exonerated to now get a subpoena to go again and speak again

after close to 20 hours of telling everybody that would listen about a nothing meeting? yeah, i'm pretty surprised. >> should he fight that subpoena? >> we'll see what happens. i'll just very surprised. >> we'll see what happens. not an immediate fight. that is what president trump said when asked if his son would fight a subpoena. but donald trump jr. fighting the subpoena could be quite different than attorney general bill barr doing the same. joining me now for some of the legal insights is former ausa for the southern district of new york and also nbc legal analyst. mimi, welcome back. so let me ask you, the president didn't say he would fight. would that be the fights you'd give donald trump jr. on this? >> well, it depends what he mines by fight. look, donald trump jr. has a different kind of argument,

privilege, way to get out of this if he wants to than as you mentioned bill barr. donald trump jr. can invoke his fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination, like any other criminal subject/target as we know that don jr. was. if he invokes that, which i think most attorneys who represent him would suggest that he should, and i think we can infer from the mimueller report he likely did with respect to mueller, there is information in the report that leads us to believe that, then it is going to be very hard for them to get him to testify unless they want to give him immunity and i'm not sure they should or would want to go there. >> and it assigns as if -- the subpoena was issued a couple weeks ago, in mid april according to our reporting. and more importantly, it is also

after some weeks of negotiations trying to get him to voluntarily come back. jared kushner did voluntarily come back. this is not a criminal proceeding. this is not-of it just strikes me as odd that they would fight this so hard, why he pushed them to the brink of subpoena. do you think that jr. and his legal team played a game of chicken just didn't think a republican senate that richard burr would go along with a subpoena? >> i think that is probably right. i think that they thought that they could just say no and that would be the end of the story with the republicans also in charge there. but you know, it is not surprising that they want him to come back, right? i mean he -- as investigators, they know a lot more than they knew back when they questioned him. so it is not an empty exercise as the president is trying to make it sound. there is a lot more new questions too be asked in light

of the information that they now know in part from the mueller report. and in part from other sources. >> you said that they wouldn't give him immunity. why wouldn't they? i know-46 i feel like i know a decent amount of what the intel committee's focus is and what they are hoping to get out of their investigation. they are really trying to do a report on what the russians did and also essentially create legislation to try to -- if not to recommend things. so in a weird way, if what they want is informational fr from jr., doctor wouldn't they give him immunity? >> without getting too far in the weeds, i think you're right, if that is their goal and they thought that they could limit what they were going to ask him t to earn is areacertain area, ye could make sense. nobody else will look at that area in terms of like the

russian trump tower meeting, things like that. but there is a whole other host of possible criminal investigations out there that may or may not touch on don jr. and i think -- i'm speaking of a former prosecutor obviously. i'd want them to be very careful in terms of just some sort of immunity that ends up covering him for any potential charges before the other investigations have finished. >> and you bring up a good point. we don't know if donald trump jr. -- he may know that he has other investigations that are active in him that we may not know about. i want to ask you about the letter that bunch of former prosecutors like yourself signed on to, basically arguing that under the similar evidence, you guys would have charged president trump with obstruction. tell me about the effort and what you hope is gained by it. >> look, the letter is -- first of all, i think it is important

for people to understand how rare it is that any former federal prosecutor let alone 800 plus have signed this. this is really unusual. and it is hard to do. it is not something that any of us would do liltly. insert ourselves in this politicized debate about criminal case or potential criminal case. but i think that what happened is that the conduct that is described playerly in the lypa obstruction section by mueller is so you outrageous frankly and blatant and similar to so many other cases that prosecutors like myself have done over and over again in terms of people using positions of power to try to shut down, control cases. nothing is quite like the president. but you know, people with power who try to use to get out of criminal trouble. >> do you think bill barr has created bad precedent for prosecutors like yourself who sometimes you need the

obstruction ability to charge on obstruction because frankly the obstruction got rid of evidence for the crime that you were trying to prosecute? >> yeah, i mean barr has -- and i've spoken to many defense attorneys who are almost sort of joking about okay, we have a new motion to make, which is basically if there is no underlying crime, you can't charge me with obstruction or if i'm angry and upset, i can't be guilty of obstruction defense. neither of those are legitimate and they turn the purpose of the statute on its head because it is supposed to criminalize the endeavor, not whether or not it was successful. so you don't need the underlying crime. >> all right. mimi, thank you. glad you're with us. coming up, the republican revolt against one of their own other the don jr. subpoena. plus, why i'm obsessed with one fight in one state. and why it shows us what is at stake in november of 2020.

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who's already won three cars, two motorcycles, a boat, and an r.v. i would not want to pay that insurance bill. [ ding ] -oh, i have progressive, so i just bundled everything with my home insurance. saved me a ton of money. -love you, gary! -you don't have to buzz in. it's not a question, gary. on march 1, 1810 -- [ ding ] -frédéric chopin. -collapsing in 226 -- [ ding ] -the colossus of rhodes. -[ sighs ] louise dustmann -- [ ding ] -brahms' "lullaby," or "wiegenlied." -when will it end? [ ding ] -not today, ron. tonig tonight i'm obsessed with something that has yet to break through. the future of he rroe v. wade.

it will be on the ballot. just two days ago georgia governor signed a strict abortion law that effectively bans abortion after six weeks. they are the sixth state to pass the heartbeat bill. and today in alabama, this happened. the alabama state senator erupted in to chaos as lawmakers held a vote on a bill that makes the procedure a felony and the punishment would be up to 99 year in his prison. the uproar was over whether there should be exceptions in extreme cases. lawmakers are tabling the vote until next week. but what happened in alabama today is really just the beginning. the goal of this bill and others like it among those that have

pain pushing to get these passed is to get to the supreme court to look at roe v. wade. and the court is four liberal justices, two in their 80s. yes, conservatives have the majority, but you overturning roe v. waw v is wade both sides whoever is elected in 2020, they could have the justice deciding the casting vote. roe v. wade will be on the about ale plot 2020. and while this is not the first time you've heard people say it is on the ballot, this time it really is. ballot, th tisime it really is.

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i think they have it wrong. >> at some point this is not about finding facts. this smacks of politics. >> i personally believe that the democrats are just trying to keep it alive and their latest launch point toalive. >> i think that you would have to speak to the senator. mueller spent two years, $25 million. and to me, he's the final word. i'm not going to second-guess him. >> time for "the lid." some republicans are furious about subpoenaing president trump's son. perhaps adding to that, it came just a day after mitch mcconnell declared on the senate floor, case closed on the russian investigation. the two sources tell msnbc that the subpoena was served in mid-april. in a closed door this afternoon, richard burr explained to his republican colleagues how his committee reached the point of

subpoenaing. in case people are wondering, the committee gave burr and warner subpoena power. they don't have to go get a vote every time. people are wondering, how did marco rubio vote on this? they've already proxied their votes to warner and burr here. burr is very comfortable in his skin on all of this. he's been exonerating of the president, if he thought there was an exoneration moment or he's done this. >> right. richard burr is one of the republicans not running for re-election again so he is free to do what he wants. we know loyalty to president trump is probably the most meaningful litmus test for a republican if good standing and he's violated that. it pumpingtured the narrative of mitch mcconnell who said, case closed. it punctured president trump's narrative. this is a witch hunt. a stunt by a bunch of democrats. richard burr operates quietly. he operates under the radar.

>> you will not mistaken him for corker or flake or some of those folks. >> no. and to that point, some of the things he said in the past have been very favorable toward the president. so what was so interesting about this, the republican colleagues were just fleeing and criticizing him. >> that's what struck me without seemingly getting the information about how the process went down and what that. and he had to explain in this closed door republican lunch. and because he's not such, somebody like up, like a corker or somebody who has been really jabbing at the president, it is an odd thing. >> we talk about the guardrails all the time. only lindsey graham showed respect for a fellow committee chairman. i think burr is a guy, has he not earned the right, given how he's handled himself? >> i would like to think that. i worked in the senate and they had respect for each other. i think the litmus test is the

loyalty. i find this a more interesting story, not in the context of the house and the democratic crusade against the white house. but much more in the context of unbelievable mismanagement. how the heck did they get to the point where a republican senate committee had to subpoena don jr.? what did they refuse to do and why? >> jared kushner here, and mark warner doesn't say him by name, he makes the point that they ran into this stone wall from jr. when everybody else who had appeared, agreed to come back including members of the trump family. jared kushner came voluntarily. they were looking for him to come voluntarily. >> and i think this is the signal that what happened was they tried to negotiate with donald trump jr. for some reason, and frankly, it is about something, i'm not sure what, but if you look at senator burr, he is not a flame thrower. he does travel under the radar.

and he said, and he's been working really closely with mark warner during this entire time. if anything, the senate intelligence committee has been operating in a more bipartisan way. >> i'll be honest, it feels like the last guardrail. doesn't it? the one place where we can say, they're working together. >> so to me that says that they really tried to come to some kind of an accommodation with donald trump jr. and he walked away. >> there's no world i can envision where richard burr, the republican cheryl, did not try many good faith. >> the president's reaction was interesting, too. here he is flame throwing at the democrats, and relishing this fight and he didn't do that. he said, i was surprised. i was actually really surprised and we'll see. he didn't say, we'll fight this and this is ridiculous. so it begs many more questions. >> it was an easy yes. >> it was.

and i don't agree saying no is a sign of guilt. i think saying no is a sign of stupidity and incompetence. i am always willing to ascribe stupidity and incompetence in washington. >> the president isn't going after kerr. if someone is not a easy target that you can claim is going after you. >> the tom tillis effect here. the day after he gets a fairly high profile of conservative challenge here comes from the jesse helms roots. the organization, the conservative organization there. so he's more of the jesse helms wing of the north carolina party. so it is a real conservative threat. you saw that tillis was not a happy man. >> it is. it goes back to the loyalty to the president trump issue. he kind of backed off that after demanding a vote. he came out very strongly against president trump's national emergency declaration. he got an enormous criticism. now he's facing a challenge --

>> i don't think it was timed this way but you could not, if you're running against tillis, you could not have been happier about burr's move. thank you. we'll be right back. thank you. we'll be right back. (music throughout)

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>> that's all we have for tonight. we'll be back more with "meet the press daily." >> i'll till, we have people from "veep" where art sometimes

imitates high of. i don't know if you've caught this season at all but sometimes it feels close. >> i have. i feel like hillary clinton when she was with rachel was watching that most recent else. i'll just leave it at that. >> sometimes she is more. less is more. i know the no spoiler rule and maybe we'll get into it in the interview. >> thank you. donald trump jr. has been threatened with jail time if he were to completely defy this new subpoena he received from the united states senate. a bipartisan one at that we should tell that you donald trump laughed when supporters called out openly. it may sound like an episode of "veep." i have two of the people involved. tonight i want to tell