facebook.com/the beat with ari. won the election, but it if you want to see more of what we discussed, i asked him on department do anything to expand taking on trump at the oscars his base. he throws outlines or attacks and why he said he knew it would that only feeds more rhetoric to bother the president. don't go anywhere now. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. his base. he is doing nothing to expand >> repeat offender. let's play "hardball." this. i don't think it's going to work this time around. independents and moderates and swing voters will have a real problem if they keep hearing the rhetoric from trump. >> biden is attacked as if he good evening. i'm chris matthews in were clarence thomas. washington. breaking news this friday night. he didn't give her enough time it turns out that even the to make the case and said he mueller report itself didn't didn't do enough. stop donald trump from that will be a problem because obstructing justice. anita hill is still making charges against him still. it seems like he will pay a he continued his efforts to cover up wrong-doing to deny any higher price for that. the election coming more than intentional illegality. trump ever paid a price for in a breaking story tonight, the "access hollywood" or the porn "wall street journal" reports stars or anything. within a day of the release of >> for biden was going to the mueller report last month, experience deterioration as a result, it would have happened president trump sought to have by now. don began declare he didn't instead you have trump saying consider the president's 2017

sleepy, creepy, whatever he's directive he seek robert saying. he glossed over what the mueller's dismissal. democrats wanted to use. he rebuffed that request. the "new york times" reports on i think the president is doing that story that white officials joe biden a favor right now by ask at least twice in the past immersing himself in the month for mcgahn to say publicly democratic contest right now. he never believed the president >> do you think hillary is going obstructed justice ever. to endorse biden? mcgahn's reluctance angered >> i have no idea. i assume hillary and barack mr. trump and mcgahn showed obama will take a step back and disloyaltiy by showing watch it play out and make a investigators about attempts to determination when and if it maybe tan control over the makes sense to endorse. >> you say good relations. russian investigation. i get the sense this thing is moving faster than we thought. it's similar to what got trump there are people coming out for in trouble in the first place. in january of 2018, trump biden now. i saw rob reiner out there. he's always kind of a leader of pressured began to deny the reports he tried to fire the unhyphenated democrats. special counsel. in that case began also refused >> he used to be a big tim ryan the president's request. i want to bring in the director fan. >> he was at the fund-raiser. of the center on georgetown law. >> i think it's consolidating glen kirschner and michael quicker. >> guys, it's early. >> we will find out next time. schmidt from the "new york

times" who joins us by phone. michael, another amazing story. who has a candidate out there. give us the sense you have of up next, we will take this show what trump was up to when he on the road and i will tell you told mr. mcgahn his former about it. next week we get out to the counsel in the white house to people and hear why they had a say he never thought there was 2016 election the way it was. anything wrong with what trump did in the first place of trying what happened and what's going to happen based upon what's to say fire mueller. happening now. >> well, i think the problem is you are watching "hardball." d u happening now. you are watching "hardball." when did you see the sign? that mcgahn is at the center of the most problematic episodes in the report. what they are trying to do is downplay the obstruction issue. there was a difference of opinion between mueller and the attorney general, not making a determination on it. politically the issue has lingered and trump was upset when he saw how much mcgahn had spoken to mueller and all the things he had done. what happens is that they try when i needed to create a better visitor experience. and get mcgahn to say hey, i didn't think there was any improve our workflow. obstruction to hch with the attract new customers. political problem the reports that's when fastsigns recommended fleet graphics. created. mcgahn wouldn't go along with yeah, and now business is rolling in. that. he looked at the report and he get started at fastsigns.com.

was not going to go along and do that. >> what does it say that the president was not confident his attorney general was not giving enough cover by saying there was no obstruction in his four-page report that followed the mueller report. in other words, he had to go back and cover himself by saying mcgahn, you put out the word they didn't commit a crime here. >> look, i think he has to be happy with barr. barr has gone to great lengths to help make the argument to the public why there is no case here. i don't think it was frustration with barr that led to this. the president never understood the extent of mcgahn's cooperation. he never got the fact that mcgahn had gone in for 30 hours and said all sorts of things and picked up the report and i don't know if he read the report, but the media laid out all of the things based on mcgahn and the president saying hold on a second, what's going on? he's fume being it.

the white house in annest to try to calm the president down and yeah, i've had some prettyeer. help take air out of the prestigious jobs over the years. political problem tried to get news producer, executive transport manager, began to do this. >> i want to know how it fits and a beverage distribution supervisor. now i'm a director at a security software firm. into the scheme. trump seems to be trying to wow, you've been at it a long time. exonerate himself and use what thing is, i like working. barr would give him and not quite confident that was enough. what if my retirement plan is i don't want to retire? he had to go back to the scene then let's not create a retirement plan. of the crime and say there was let's create a plan for what's next. nothing wrong with what i did when i obstructed justice. i like that. get a plan that's right for you. >> which is crazy. he has the benefit of the law td ameritrade. ♪ firm of giuliani, sekulow, mnuchin and barr and now he wants mcgahn to weigh in as well? began who is basically a witness to the obstruction in the first instance when the president said i want the man investigating me and my family and associates and my campaign fired. mcgahn is like i'm not going to do that. he said then i want you to lie about the fact that i just asked

to you do it. now he reaches out to mcgahn again and said hey, buddy, you can vouch for me. when he won't vouch for him as mcgahn continues to be the principled person he is, he then lays into him again and said to everybody, he has been lying all along. this is theater of the ob surd. theater of the obstruction. the only thing i will disagree with mike schmidt on is there is no split of continue of whether the president obstructed justice. mueller and 700 or 800 prosec e prosecutors who said he did and barr who is the president's pr flack who said he didn't. >> i wonder if the president read somewhere in the papers and he does pick them up in the morning and realize if there was a question about it. if you don't know it's wrong to take it, you don't know they will take it. you are not criminally responsible. i know that's campaign laws and i wonder if he thinks if i don't ever since donald trump surprised us in 2016, i wanted

know it's illegal to fire the to hear voters explain why. not just what they were prosecutor as if you need to be thinking, but what was in their informed by that, i'm not gut that made them vote the way guilty. he tries to get his lawyers to they did. what was it for people who voted say tell the public that i for obama to vote for the real didn't know it was illegal to estate big shot and dump the fire the guy prosecuting me. >> i don't know. establishments of both parties. that seems sophisticated for the next thursday we are going a pennsylvania county that voted president in this situation. twice for president obama and bigger for donald trump. we are holding a special live i think that the president didn't like the fact that these event where for an hour i'm going to listen and if necessary, push people to tell accusations were out there and the country what it is that he tried in january of 2018 to moves them politically. get mcgahn to go back on what he who do they trust and who shares told mule or this. their values and can give them that is actually probably one of the country they want to live the more dramatic and stark in. i expect we are hearing a lot examples in the report that the about the pressure they feel president tried to interfere economically. with the investigation after it their attitude towards trump and comes out that mcgahn told the democrats. mueller about this. he tries to get him to create a it's a journey of exploration and listening to an american fake white house document where he said look, i never told to county that turned the 2016 election and can do it either you fire mueller. way in 2020. this has been an issue that has been going on for over a year this is going to be a reporting trip for all of us at "hardball" and we will hear from people who

now between mcgahn and trump. stuck with the democrats for what's interesting and you are generations and finally said no. pointing out before, the let's hear what is in their president is undeterred to do things like this. hearts and minds in 16 and despite the fact that he was what's there now. i invite you to watch may 16th under investigation for obstructing justice for over two here on "hardball." we are calling the show years, he's not -- he doesn't appropriately, the deciders. think twice to try to get that's "hardball" for now. someone who is a witness and certainly in a congressional thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts setting to say something. now. >> this president won't go down easy. >> no. >> whatever you think, this guy >> tonight on all in -- will fight everything and has no >> giuliani plans ukraine trip respect for the constitution and to push for inquiries that could for the law really. if he gets someone to say he is help trump. right, he will find that person. >> donald trump ukraine he found one in barr. campaign. >> all i want the government to >> the repeated rejection of all do is investigate. >> the president is at it again. >> russia, if you're listening. the subpoenas and the story with began. >> maxine waters on donald mcgahn is a stand up lawyer. trump's public pursuit of help from a foreign government to get he does what white house couples himself reelected. are supposed to do. >> we're have a couple things up you throw yourself in front of the leader and say you can't do our sleeve that should turn it around. that. that's wrong. >> as democrats subpoena the that's what your job is. he did that. president's tax returns, how a the president that the president

crucial decision just changed wouldn't know this as wrong is very unusual. >> do you think he would hire anybody to help him do the right thing? >> i don't know about that. >> too much of a stretch. this morning the reporting comes after a former fbi director james comey. pointed to the president's interaction with mcgahn if he believed the president obstructed justice. here's comey. >> do you think he had criminal intent based on what you have seen in the mueller report? >> it sure looks like he did in connection with a couple of episodes, the direction to don mcgahn to get the special counsel fired is to my mind a flaming example. >> of corrupt intent? >> of corrupt intent. the ones that would be most likely charged are not necessarily the ones that involved me. particularly mcgahn and another episode where he tried to get the attorney general to limit the investigation only to future elections and examples that any

reasonable prosecutor would change. >> he looked for a lot of excuses to fire comey. not fire mueller. he said get rid of the guy. he's tailing me. >> i don't think there is a argument or dispute to be had. mueller set out the evidence and didn't give the conclusion. he didn't have to. he set out the evidence that satisfies every element of the crime of obstruction of justice several times over. the only remaining question is what does congress do about it? >> i want to michael on the reporting and the constitutional question. mcgahn is the top number one congress would like to have testify. she at the heart of the mueller case. not just the investigator, but the investigation has thrown up mcgahn as the guy who will tell us the truth about whether the president obstructed justice or not. doesn't it seem like that's

where the some are is going? mcgahn will testify before one of the houses? >> yeah, but you have a white house that is ready to go to court to prevent that. that could take some time. the democrats as it looks from here, they are trying to get momentum and they don't really have it. mcgahn coming up to testify would summer help them if mcgahn paints a picture and we are not sure that mcgahn is a slam dunk witness that the democrats think he is. i'm not sure he is going to be sort of the john dean-like character. i think that as we reported, his lawyers is told the white house last year that mcgahn never thought that it was true that mcgahn never thought the president obstructed justice. if he stands up and testified to that, legally it doesn't mean anything. politically that's a powerful thing. >> if he does say the president told me to fire the special

counsel who was prosecuting him, that's obstruction. >> that's obstruction. there is a legal theory that the folks are following. that's called the unitaryian executive. the president can do anything within the executive. mcgahn if he told you what the faxes are, that's strong evidence for the american people. no citizen can fire their own prosecutor. >> this is highly unusual. this runs against all history to say that he or she can do anything they want. that's what the argument is. thank you. great reporting. you especially are amazing. i'm joined by hakeem jeffries of new york, a member of the house judiciary committee. i have a question that is rather broad. when is enough? this guy is throwing everything back at you. subpoenas and contempt of congress threats.

everything he can imagine is within his power and comes out he tried to get according to this reporting by the "wall street journal" and the "new york times," he tried to get the former white house lawyer to cover him on obstruction of justice by saying we all know by watching that it was. >> we are watching a rogue, reckless, and renegade administration unfold before our eyes and the eyes of the american people. we still have an obligation to proceed in a systematic fashion. what congressman jerry nadler and the chair said, we are going have a hearing or series of hearings to explore obstruction of justice, abuse of power, and the culture of corruption that exists at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. in a way that is meaningful for the american people, we need to secure the participation of witnesses such as don mcgahn. that's why he has been subpoenaed. >> i understand and i will go to the law here, but i understand that you have a better shot at

getting these people to testify if you are involved in an impeachment exercise. they are clearly performing the unique role of the u.s. congress and the house to prosecute such a case. short of that, what confidence do you have that anyone will show up before you, including the un redacted mueller report. where is your confidence? >> i have confidence in the united states constitution. what's clear is that the separate and coequal branch of government. we have a constitutional to serve as a check and balance in the executive branch. that's why we have begun contempt proceedings. because he's out of control. that's not the end. that's the beginning for us. we are going to proceed in a way that is consistent with the oversight, but not overpoliticize or overreach or ov

overinvestigate either. >> how do you get the justice department under the control of william barr to give you contempt of congress or indictment against barr himself. the justice department head. >> that's a good question, but there is a justice department route and in all likelihood, we will not pursue a contempt citation against their own attorney general. courts have consistently indicated that congress has its own inherent powers to enforce a citation that can take many forms including fining an individual that is not in compliance. that's on the table. we will see where we have to go based on following the process that is ahead of us which will involve eventually bringing this contempt citation before the florida house of representatives. >> you are a writer on this question. how do they exercise the power to fine? how do they go and say pay up. do they garnish the wages?

how do you that? >> i think that's a speculative issue whether they can find them. they can essentially eliminate their wages and zero out people's offices wages. if they get that far. >> that's done by both houses. they would have to go along with it. the republicans are not going to go along with that. >> the idea that they can fine as representative schiff proposed is a reform of the current process. >> statutory he? it won't happen. >> he reports to do it in the house with the house rules. you take the subpoena and you seek a declaration that the executive is violating. you confident? >> they should go quickly on the tax bill and the tax case and that the court should be asked to give very speedy results in these cases. >> i like that. that makes sense. hakeem jeffries, great to have

you on, sir. coming up, president trump's team is once again saying they are willing to receive campaign help from a foreign government. repeat offenders. senator chris murphy of connecticut will be calling in on this investigation. he wants an investigation on the effort by rudy giuliani who is going kiev to get dirt on, let's think, the democrats. why president trump fears joe biden. what his internal polling is telling him about the threat and his new nickname of creepy for vice president biden. who is talking about creepy. "hardball" is hitting the road on the list of voter who is swung the election. it swung from obama twice to big for trump. why? we will find out next thursday night. stick with us. out next thursday night. stick with us. ng. ng. i don't want to hear about insurance. 'cause let's be honest... nobody likes dealing with insurance. right?

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welcome back to "hardball." a presidential candidate asking a foreign power to help dig up dirt on a rival? it happened in 2016 and it's deja vu all over again. the "new york times" reporting that rudy giuliani is pressing a foreign country, ukraine, to take access to help trump to get reelected in 2020. giuliani is encouraging ukraine, the new government to wade further into sensitive political issues in the united states pushing the incoming government in kiev to press ahead with investigations he hopes will benefit mr. trump. in the next few days, giuliani will travel to the capital of ukraine to try to meet with the country's incoming president. the comedian. the trip is one part of a broader effort to pursue investigations that will help in his reelection campaign.

one is the origin of the special counsel that mueller's investigation into russia's interference of the 2016 election. the other is joe biden's son and the gas company owned by the ukrainian oligarch. not only do they investigate marries, but he is doing so in plain sight and brag being it. we are not meddling in an election, we are meddling in an investigation. he said there is nothing illegal about it, but admitting saying somebody could say it's improper. i'm joined by the author of that story. national security adviser for president obama. giuliani is if nothing else, outrageous. he is traveling around the world and claiming he is going to give a speech which was cooked up two years ago to pay for his trip. what do we make with how it fits

into the intrigue of the willingness to go to the east for help? >> ironically what he said he is doing to trying to undermine the mueller report. findings in the mueller report and prove that in fact it wasn't the trump campaign colluding, but rather the clinton campaign colluding with u vain. he seeks assistance and clearly there was irony there. there are legitimate questions. he said he is acting as president trump's personal lawyer, but in ukraine the perception is not so clear. you have someone coming over as the ear of the president to meet with an incoming president, president-elect, and you can see why the ukrainians would want to curry favor with trump. they have a new administration and they are probably looking for signs. what does trump want. what can we do for trump? giuliani said this is what you can do for trump. >> you say with your smile what

trump may be getting is a nice cupcake of support from the new ukrainian president that makes the democrats look bad. >> it could be significant and it's mettling in what could be an independent process. another seniory is that the u.s. patriots the ukraine has long honed in on the judicial system and flagged it as an area with corruption and here the u.s. is essentially urging the judicial system to take steps that are politically motivated. >> trump has a record of launching investigations. he said remember the investigators that went to hawaii? they are getting interesting stuff. he lies. he lies. >> all he cares about is harming his political opponents. this is really disturbing. we have a lot of leverage on ukraine. they rely on the united states to be their big brother in the

conflict with russia. we provided assistance and so they are sitting there and suddenly one of the patrons is saying we want you to do this, it is using the foreign policy and corrupting the foreign tell us to serve the certainly interest of the president. they are not going to draw a dinkz. he speaks for trump and he is telling them. >> some big delegate said an envoy, if you will. >> they are occupying eastern ukraine and rely on us to get their back. now they are saying we want you to do this. is that continuing all of our foreign policy for the ukraine and are they investigating political opponents? this is crazy, disturbing stuff. >> let's go back to the same issue in terms of the law.

we know from the trump tower meeting, it is still being talked about. the president's son goes up to meet with the hope of getting dirt on hillary clinton. is that illegal or something of value? that would be illegal. the argument would go back to is it going to seek the help of something of value. we all know politics. you pay for research and it's usually negative. you pay when it is something of value. >> i think that there is that element here and they are sol soliciting something of use. it's even more pernicious when you mix in the patape of a personal legal team and rather for the president and the united states more generally. they talked about how he could get something of benefit to

trump. he could get something that would be a benefit to the united states. i'm not sure how i see that. >> he will come back with something blurry and ambiguous and turn it to the president's advantage if not outright lying. ben rhoades will stick with us or come back later. chris murphy of connecticut wrote on twit they're the president is openly asking a foreign government to investigate his political rival, joe biden. this is coming up next. this is the next level. calling for an investigation in a letter to the chairman, he raised concerns that giuliani is potentially operating a foreign policy apparatus for elections. these actions are improper and i'm joined by the man who wrote that. chris murphy of connecticut. starting with the law. you are an attorney. is it illegal to take anything of value including research and using it in the campaign?

>> if it's of value to the campaign, it is illegal. if it's not reported, they haven't received anything of value and they are not likely to receive anything of value here. they invented a charge and it could end up being a campaign violation. i share ben's alarm. just the beginning of what should rightly be viewed as a shadow of foreign policy and trump using his power in order to try to curry favor to help win an election. and trading national security priorities away for political favor favors and he has been doing the cuban vote by the phony fight. he is moving with the embassy and giving annexation and he

keeps it up. i want to go back to the center on this. trump is showing a willingness to play any gimmick to get any group of voters to get to vote for him. it's not unusual, but it is extraordina extraordinary. he has to stop this in his tracks. the reason why they have to ask questions and it's one thing to do this quietly and secretly and have a major investigation undertake tone find out if you are colluding with a foreign government, but it's another thing to do it in plain sight and get away with it. they have enormous equities. we sell them weapons and levy sanctions against russia and that stops russia from moving further into ukraine. this is a new president and there is no way he isn't making decisions on the requests that

rudy giuliani is making without thinking there would be consequences from america if he doesn't do what giuliani is asking. we don't have an ambassador in ukraine any longer. a civil servant got pulled by the trump administration about a week before giuliani's trip. the only person in ukraine right now that is speaking for the united states government is the political representative of the president. >> what do you make of this in terms of a repeat of what happened in 2016 when trump's people went after hillary clinton. do you think they are going after biden trying to smear him up? >> there is absolutely no basis for the allegations that they are attempting to construct here. frankly, if they don't guilet anywhere, they will try to find a sellable patina of impropriety of someone somewhere close to

vice president bide or anyone else leading the polls and try to trump up that person. you are using a foreign policy power of the presidency of the united states of america in order to try to construct that narrative about a political opponent. this won't be the end. he will try to create this fiction about somebody else. but to do it while using the foreign policy power of the united states is a really wild, wild precedent and you have to stop it now. >> can't argue with that, chris murphy of connecticut. trump is facing crisis? north korea, venezuela, china on trade. he seems to like a lot of problems going on at once. you are watching "hardball." n a. you are watching "hardball." on a john deere z500 series mower. built to mow better, faster. because sometimes... when you take a look around... you notice... your grass is long... your time is short...

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welcome back to "hardball." president trump is pushing a series of crisis around the world at once. escalating tensions with iran. we are sending bombing teams over there. the pent sgon ordering abraham lincoln over there to start something perhaps. in venezuela, the trump administration is unsuccessful and trying to knock off nicholas maduro with the bluff. in north korea, they have twice tested missiles in the past week and negotiations appear to not

be doing well. no deal there. if you listen to the president, his efforts across the globe are working. >> and we have made a decisive break from the failed foreign policy establishment that sacrificed our sovereignty, surrendered jobs and tied us down to endless foreign wars. everything we do, we are putting america first. >> endless foreign wars is looks like he is cook up. the deputy adviser under president obama. joining me is the white house reporter for the associated press. when you cover the white house for the ap, do you sense the craziness of all the fronts we are on. so many trouble fronts. every one that can be a problem. why are we talking about knocking off the government of venezuela except to get a few more votes for the older cubans in florida. why are we fighting like we are doing in the mideast with iran.

you are not going to beat iran in our lifetime. they are there. why does he want to beat us up? >> it's a hot spot all happening at once. they have been focusing inward on domestic policy. we are seeing a number of things happen at the same time. they broke off and the trade representative is on the president's orders, a couple hundred billion dollars worth of tariffs. they will feel that. they are including the voters in the midwest with the president is still counting on the reelection. >> explain that how it works. you get down to wal-mart whenever you buy your cotton shirts or underwear or socks. basic goods. a lot of them come from china. a 25% mark up. >> it's possible. that's what consumers are doing. the average american goes a store like that to buy basic goods they need every day and

they will be paying more because of what the president is doing. it's not just china. the venezuela maneuver there, there are human rights abuses, but it's a play with an eye on florida. north korea, the president bet big here and thinks he can really make a difference. he felt that is the most dangerous regime on earth. he believes that because of a sheer power of personality because of the rapport with chairman kim, he can get north korea to give up the weapons they feel is necessary to their existence. >> how do you charm -- charm does work in life, but how do you charm someone who carries around his uncle's head in a box, the guy he killed? that's not a guy who is charmable. >> no, i would tend to agree with you, but the president believes he can. i was in hanoi for the summit when it fell apart.

he said this soft approach with the chairman kept pointing to the fact that north korea stopped their missile tests that. now changed. the tests have started again. that points to the limits of what the president has done. he has not gotten anything out of kim substantial. the north koreans have real concerns around washington. we may be hurdling back to where we were two years ago when the president was talking about fire and 4y and unleashing rhetoric and tension escalated. >> let me go to ben. a lot of it is that they couldn't shoot straight. they will knock it off because of what? >> they said maduro has to go and he is still there. north korea had to give up their weapons and they department and now they are testing again. they said the iranians had to bend to their will. they announced they will resart parts of the nuclear program. china, all he is doing is hurting u.s. consumers with the

trade. it's not just the prices, but the soy bean farmers. across the board -- >> one area, we have to deal with the chinese on trade. >> not yet. he ratcheting it up and he's not clear what the strategy is. the results across the board are not good. these hot spots are getting worse. >> why did he hire john bolton who push him into most of the fights? >> there is no secretary of defense. when in our lifetime -- >> he said he will pick it up. >> i think because john bolton wants to call the shots and the secretary would say i'm not going give up venezuela. that's crazy. they don't seem to want that there. the one thing that democratic and republican voters agree on is they are sick of the war in the mideast. he escalated the war in afghanistan and risking new

wars. >> i don't know a single trump voter who wanted bolton in there. trump ran against that crap. >> here broke his presences and lied and said he would get us out of these wars. >> mr. president, john bolton is not your buddy. get rid of him. >> president trump is predicting he will be facing joe biden in 2020. pretty good bet. we will talk about the fight that's coming. you cannot predict politics a year and a half out. we'll be right back. politics a year and a half out. we'll be right back.

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president trump is absorbed by the primary to choose a challenger to him in the next election according to the "new york times." he tweeted today he imagine says joe biden will be the candidate

against him. rudy giuliani is planning to travel to ukraine to search for dirt to damage biden. the times reports that a poll of 17 states taken by trump's campaign shows one opponent, biden, overtaking trump in a head to head. he used the nickname sleepy joe for a year or so. let's watch. >> how about sleepy joe biden. sleepy joe. >> joe. sleepy joe biden. >> i think we are calling him sleepy joe. i have known him for a while and he won't be able to deal with president xi. that's a different level of energy and intelligence. >> you have a choice between sleepy joe and crazy bernie. i'll take any of them. pick somebody, please and let's start this thing. let's start it. pick somebody. >> it's trump's new nickname

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welcome back to "hardball." president trump tweeted about the likely democratic nominees as he sees it. looks to me like it's going to be sleepy creepy joe over crazy bernie. everyone else is fading fast.

look who is talking about being creepy from a guy who once said this. >> i'm althoughally attracted to beautiful -- i start kissing them like a magnet. i don't even wait. when you are a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. grab them by the pleep bleep. you can do anything. >> and he is calling joe creepy? former adviser to hillary clinton and u.s. congressman, a republican from pennsylvania. i will go with you, congressman. this served as a great -- what's the right word? papal -- whatever. they used to give exemptions. he just gets exempted. he said it with no shame like he's never done anything wrong or gone after porn stars. most people say that's creepy. i don't think joe qualifies for creepy, but your thoughts. >> there were 17 candidates that

felt similarly, too. >> like this exemption. >> as i see it right now, for all joe biden's skills and his record, the best thing that's happening to him in the democratic primary where you have other candidates looking to grab some momentum is trump attacking him. whoever trump attacks, if i'm a democrat, that's who i want. >> explain why that works. >> if you are choosing between a few, they instinctively want to go defend. in a weird way, if he doesn't want joe biden to be the nominee, he should stop talking about him. >> what's your thinking? you are the expert. >> the congressman is right. you can raise money off of it. that happened all the time when donald trump is criticizing elizabeth warren and kamala harris and joe biden and bernie sanders. they raise a lot of money off of it and it elevates their name in the news. what happens? we start talking about it?

it gives democrats a chance to get their message out while pushing back and defending themselves. >> the oxygen goes to wherever trump wants it to go, even in a democratic primary. if you are beto, they are probably sitting at home wanting the president to tweet about him. >> as long as he doesn't hit the bull's-eye. everybody has a problem. in 2016 trump deflected from that "access hollywood" tape from the bus by blaming bill clinton. watch this game here. >> bill clinton has abused women and hillary bullied, attacked, shame and intimidated his victims. >> bill clinton sexually assaulted innocent women and hillary clinton attacked the women viciously. >> if you look at bill clinton, far worse. mine are words and his was action. >> here brought bill clinton's

accusers to the second presidential debate. i found a parallel. you may not like this, congressman. republicans make better lobbyists. they're on the side of the pigs. they like the guy trying to get less taxes and regulation. democrats make moan, but they feel guilty about it. there is a weird thing about democrats have shame, republicans don't. at least bill clinton doesn't. no shame. why does it work this way. bill clinton felt embarrassed by the monica thing. hillary was embarrassed even though she was the victim. why does trump not feel guilty and because he doesn't feel it, he doesn't look it. >> for whatever reason, stuff does not stick to trump. what he is doing when he embraces or brought the accuser