that will do it for me on this hour on weekends with alex witt. now it's time for "up with david gura." this is "up with david gura." we begin with new reporting on president trump's effort to get the former white house counsel to rebut what is in the mueller report. the president wanted don mcgahn to say donald trump did not obstruct justice. >> i think the problem is that mcghan is at the center of the most problematic episodes in the report. >> more subpoenas as the battle between the house and congressional democrats escalate. the treasury secretary and irs commissioner are on the receiving end. congress should know how irs performs audits of sitting presidents. he's defining a legitimate

legislative purpose. breaking overnight, rudy giuliani calling off a controversial trip to ukraine. rudy giuliani will no longer travel to kiev to ask the president to meddle in an investigation that could benefit president trump. >> in order to remove any political suggestion, i will step back and i will just watch it unfold. it's saturday may 11th and constitutional crisis is no longer a hypothetical. >> democrats voted this week to hold barr in contempt! shut you up! it's not going any good. he's top law enforcement official in the country. who's going to arrest him, inspector gadget? >> michael walden is the president of the brennan center and law school of nyu, and we have the senior reporter at real vision. and pete dominant is the host of

stand-up on sirius xm insight. it's been a busy week in the news and things are not slowing down. as we begin explosive reporting from "the wall street journal" matched by my colleagues here at nbc news, president trump asked don mcgahn two times in the last month to say president trump did not obstruct justice. don mcgahn refused and president trump thought mcghan showed disloyalty telling the special counsel about mr. trump's efforts to maintain control of the russia investigation. he said down with mueller's team for more than 30 hours of questioning. they documented how in january 2018 president trump pressured mcghan to deny the reports he tried to fire the special counsel. in that case mcghan also rejected the president's request. the former white house county had been subpoenaed to testify before congress.

white house advisers were trying to stop that from happening. the chairman of the house judiciary committee tweet this -- the president cannot keep mcghan from testifying. francesca, let me start with you. you cover the white house day in and day out. help me to understand the degree the white house tried to shape this narrative, not from the release of that redacted report but what we've seen overnight. >> and what we saw in the report by the way matches up with the new reporting, which is president trump repeatedly tried to get these officials to say i never did this sort of thing. and it seems as if the facts the attorney general -- and even robert mueller, he did not rule this the i the president had obstructed justice. so what does he turn around and do? he takes up similar behavior again because why not? they already decided he didn't break the law and so he believes he's not breaking the law. but one thing i will say that's

been very different about this white house since a couple days before the mueller report, we really haven't heard from the president himself in person as much. he hasn't really stopped that many times outside marine one when he takes off to go to rallies. he used to stop all the time and talk. he has a couple times but he has not wanted to answer a lot of questions about the mueller report itself so we're not being called in as much to the oval office and sprays for questions and not stopping as much outside either. we haven't actually had an opportunity to drill down on these issues in a real way. >> go ahead, pete. >> i mean, i was going to say about don mcgahn, first of all, the president's loyalty threshold -- >> limited. >> it's limited is very generous, david. it's only one way, you be loyal to me. and loyalty means lie and break the law. my other point is i'm uncomfortable with all of this respect don mcgahn is getting

for not loying p don mcgahn only was in the white house, look into this guy, whole background has always been to get conservative judges on court. >> and he did very well. >> don mcgahn will be more responsible for turning america into gilliad in the handmaid's tale more than anybody else. let's not give him too much credit. >> let's go back to the issue specifically that we've seen that kind of post white house career white washing, whether it's anthony scaramucci. and kyrstin nielsen suggesting in reporting she's pushing for more interest in election interference and white house staff telling her not to do that. we are seeing that again. there's a revarnishing, whitewashing here of don mcgahn. >> it's very easy after the fact to say i was there and tried my best to stand up to this

president. end of the day you chose to be part of the white house and all of the policies that came with it. i'm with you, pete, every time i hear the word loyalty, it makes me shutter a bit. it doesn't mean loyalty to the constitution or country, it only means loyalty to donald trump. that's scary and, yes, mcghan should not be let off the hook. the other thing we have to point out too, again, some of it defies logic. mcghan already spoke to investigators for 30 hours and now you see the white house are wanting to take steps to not let him testify or talk to anybody else. he already did it with the investigators. the cat is already out of the bag. you can't keep trying to censor people. >> yes. >> trump knows one thing we forget he knows it's in the mueller report, social media. trump thinks television still determines what people know. i looked at the michael cohen testimony, which was to me mind-blowing. you have the president's personal lawyer saying under oath, this guy committed

multiple felonies. i looked at the numbers all over the country the next day. it was barely on the front page in the united states. this was not watergate, this was not john dean. they know if mcghan comes and testifies before congress, suddenly there's a protagonist, a live person -- >> it's personalized. >> and this guy, it's true he both stacked the court with right wing judges and also saved judge's bacon to carry out his order. >> yes. >> so i'm sure they feel conflicted about it. >> what do you make -- i want to mind you here as a lawyer, you have this outreach to bill burke, which is don mcgahn's lawyer and we saw it from jay sekulow and john dowd. bill burke, i thought this was astonishing, we did not perceive it as any threat or something sinister. it was confessed professionally and cordially made. it seems like suf a cheerful lead on what is being said to

mcdawn. >> did your client obstruct justice? this is a one way to sandpaper off the comment, have my lawyer talk to your lawyer. but just because someone is a lawyer doesn't mean they are not doing something wrong if they're doing something wrong. we know from the mueller report trump was against mcghan taking notes. roy cohn never took notes, his mafia b lawyer. that's what he would do. >> the editor of law far put this out on the issue -- question, what do bob mueller and don mcgahn have in common? they both won't say what trump didn't obstruct justice. i won't characterize the emoji. but there's a theme emerging here. >> there is. and something you were saying before about why he wouldn't

want mcghan to testify. i think michael cohen's testimony was damaging to president trump. as a result of that you now have the senate intelligence committee wanting to speak to the president's son again. and so this is reopened, because of michael cohen's testimony, it has reopened an entire rabbit hole that is dragging in the president's family all over again and sort of jump-starting this investigation and there is a possibility if up have mcghan come forward and he starts speaking about some of these instances in more and greater detail, that it could be a very, very detrimental to the president. with michael cohen, you also have to remember that was all taking place why the president was overseas. that is not the messaging he wanted overnight where he was taking place. and the president is now about to go to japan and after that he also has a foreign trip to europe. he's going to the uk and france and when he absolutely does not want again is his programming where these ex-officials are on television testifying all day long while he is trying to do

diplomacy somewhere else. >> when you look at the subpoena landscape now, and we're waiting to see if bob mueller will be called up this week or next week, whenever it happens, and you have don mcgahn in the mix, to michael's point, how pivotal is that going to be? you look in "the journal," "the times," nbc confirmed it as well, how do you see this? >> it's a great question. my company landscapes, by the way. i don't know if this is affecting your day but apparently we are in a constitutional crisis but the legal scholars i read and follow and respect are saying until the courts weigh in, we aren't necessarily, meaning you can have all of these subpoenas and i guess don jr. will not show up for his subpoena, even though it's a republican-led intel committee but richard bird is not a republican anymore, according to trumpers. but until the courts weigh in, will we know how effective these

subpoenas are? they have to be -- as we talked about, don mcgahn already testified. you can't have executive privilege over something already made public. so it all matters what these courts decide. michael? >> we may all be in for a rude surprise on that because courts very often don't like to get in the middle of a fight between congress and whoever the president is. they say congress, you have lots of power, you can cut off their funding. they either do or don't have a jail in the basement of the house of representatives. >> reportedly they do not. reportedly they do not. i'll build one. >> this is too good to check evidently. so they can do all kinds of things in courts, even water zb gate would not enforce congressional subpoenas. however, it may be a subpoena is different because it's in the constitution and that's a high, power f

powerful things the founders gave us. so a lot of people thought it was politically -- >> maybe the only thing. >> maybe procedurally. >> and politically you can't say we're in a constitutional crisis as you have a lawmakers saying not be willing to go to impeachment. you believe the house is burning on fire and need to do something drastic or you don't. that's why i feel like there's a lot of criticism about the waffling. one last claim about the don jr. claim -- >> we will talk more about it, i promise. >> i can wait. if that's what you need. i have so many thoughts on it. up next, house democrats are after president trump's tax returns, zeroing in on two members. the latest subpoena battle in a war that now includes the president's son, there he is. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell said when it comes to the russia investigation it's case closed. it's time for our memorial day sale on the

sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your movement and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. save $1,000 on the new queen sleep number 360 special edition smart bed, only $1,799. only for a limited time. rheumatoid arthritis or psoriatic arthritis. when considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz xr,

a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or active psoriatic arthritis for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. it can reduce pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened. as have tears in the stomach or intestines, serious allergic reactions, low blood cell counts, higher liver tests and cholesterol levels. don't start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. your doctor should perform blood tests before and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. tell your doctor if you've been somewhere fungal infections are common and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. don't let another morning go by without asking your doctor about xeljanz xr.

david gura." the little challenges and political challenges continue to mount for the trump administration. the house committee issued new subpoenas ordered treasury secretary steve mnuchin and irs redding to release tax returns by 5:00 p.m. friday. it's the latest in the escalating fight over documents. sources tell nbc news donald was subpoenaed anyway april by the

republican-led senate intelligence committee. they want to hear from trump's son good the 2016 trump tower meeting, and lawmakers say consequences could be dire if the president's son were not to comply. >> he ought to be put in jail. if he fails to comply with a lawful subpoena, he has no privilege. prison is the only answer. >> president trump said he was surprised by the subpoena and in an interview with politico friday came to his son's defense, saying quote -- i know my son did, and i know that special counsel robert mueller went over his testimony very, very, very strong and my son did not work. the national reporter who knows the goings on with this committee very well. we knew there were three going on, house intelligence committee, mueller's committee.

where does this stand? >> they're close to finishing the work but not 100% done. they're calling back some witnesses for other interviews and donald trump jr. is one of those. they plan to issue a series of reports, the senate does, and this will be the only bipartisan verdict, assuming this bipartisan arrangement between richard bird and mark warner persists, this will be the only bipartisan verdict on what happened in the 2016 election. what's really interesting about this whole dynamic you have republican rich bur, who runs this committee, agreeing to issue a subpoena to the president's son, pushing aside complaints of his republican colleagues. mitch mcconnell knew this was happening even when he said this is all over. but he's not running for re-election and bur decided he wants to pursue a serious investigation and get to the bottom of what happened even if he doesn't believe there was collusion in a criminal sense. >> i will read a quotation from the interview the president did with the president about his reaction to this.

what strikes me, ken, how the president couches his surprise in political terms. i won the state in north carolina and frankly had another republican won the primary, they would have not won the state. bur came in and ran along with me. i didn't know him well so, yeah, i was very surprised to see that. talk about the politics of this. you mention the odd couple relationship we've seen with th over the course of this. it's been mostly happycommittee >> there certainly are tensions behind the scenes, bemocrat andd burr see this investigation in different ways. warner is public saying all of these russia contacts, even if they don't amount to a conspiracy, it's basically collusion and unethical and immoral. burr has not said that, but my sources tell me after donald trump fired them fbi director

james comey, he really lost burr. burr was not happy with that decision. burr had been a comey supporter and burr decided at that moment to pursue a serious and rigorous investigation. he's not going to do everything the democrats want. he doesn't agree with everything the democrats say about what happened but he does realize russia attacked the election and the american public deserve answers about what the trump campaign did, what the fbi did, what the government response was and should be going forward. >> i promise, i will get back to you on the issue of donald trump jr. let me suggest a way of teeing this up, you have ken talking there just about, you know, the investigation isn't over with. witnesses are being called back. what do you make of the reaction whether politically or just in terms of the investigation. >> there's a couple of things which we have to remember the differences between the mueller investigation and these senate committee investigations. i think that that is a key point, right? the mueller investigation was searching for criminality. these investigations are looking

at the way our intelligence services responded and how capable they are to dealing with any kind of threat that might happen with our electoral system, which is something, anybody, you know, no matter what party you're in, should care about. and so that's just point one, you know. >> sure. take point two and three. go for it. >> so republicans will say that don jr. already testified. if you have conflicting statements -- >> discrepancies. >> yes. from michael cohen, don jr., it doesn't matter if you're a journalist, in the legal field, law he -- >> whatever you do. >> -- if there's a correctio contradiction, you follow up and keep asking questions. >> and with respect to mueller, i would like to see mueller in my audience. no, you compare the mueller investigation to the senate intel committee. let's be clear from anybody we

heard that ever served on the intel committee in the house and senate it's not particularly political. historically they were there to do their job. but we know republicans are not there doing their job. they're not enforcing the constitution rule of law. they are completely partisan on the intel committee. russia interfered for our election and they're covering for the president, who was covering for russia, working with them. the quote from burr, i had a strong relationship with north carolina and burr and i'm surprised he's doing his job. he's doing his job. >> ken, you mentioned the case being closed and what mitch mcconnell, the government leader knew when he delivered those marks on the senate floor. where does this lead things in washington and see broadly where the fractures and fissures within the republican party, how does it emerge from this, this subpoena being issued in light of what he said? >> i think they can tell themselves this is sort of a

side show. the question about whether donald trump lied about particular aspects of the russia investigation is not germane as mitch mcconnell sees it to the ultimate question of whether or not there was collusion. mueller decide there wasn't. that's what case closed means. the larger context is the tp battle whether we're in a constitutional crisis and what the congress can actually do about this blanket resistance by the trump administration to spornd to oversight. and there's been a lot of talk about the inherent contempt powers of throwing people in jail. just to be clear, that doesn't exactly exist in practice. it's on the books. it has not been used since 1935. there's no jail in the capitol. in reality they have to go to court and it takes many months, took seven years in the obama administration to pursue a subpoena on the fast and furious investigation. it wasn't resolved until donald trump was president. >> it is absolutely right that the refusal to go along with any

oversight is unprecedented, is a breach of the constitution and as serious as anything in the mueller report. what we are seeing with this donald jr. subpoena is one of the mysteries to the mueller report answered a little bit, why didn't they interview donald trump jr.? perhaps because he was a target of this perjury investigation. that is what you do when you're a prosecutor, and, you know, the question whether he lied about the fact they were still trying to get this deal going in moscow and in the middle of a campaign and offering putin an apartment and all of this stuff, that's not a side thing. that's at the heart whether russia, while it was interfering in our election, while it was tipping the scales, also had a business interest. >> trump had a business interest with russia. >> right. >> we can spend the whole show on this. >> we have to leave it there. ken dilanian, thank you very much, joining us from washington. the president calling the enemy of people, spends times

talking to reporters on his own terms. four months without a press briefing. who has the answers about what is happening in the white house? t is happening in the white house? my experience with usaa has been excellent. they really appreciate the military family and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else?

we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life. ♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today. ♪ is that for me? mhm aaaah!

nooooo... quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent than the leading ordinary brand. [son loudly clears throat] [mom and dad laugh] bounty, the quicker picker upper. now with new prints featuring characters from disney/pixar's toy story 4 in theaters june 21. a wealth of information. a wealth of perspective. ♪ a wealth of opportunities. that's the clarity you get from fidelity wealth management. straightforward advice, tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management.

welcome back to "up." it was a dizzying week with escalation in the news cycle. take a look at what i'm talking about. >> president trump's former lawyer, this is amazing if you think about it historically, and his fixer, his ray donovan and michael cohen is saying good-bye to park avenue life and hello to federal prison. >> the treasury department defies a demand from house democrats and refuses to hand over trump's tax returns. >> we begin with breaking news, a potential escalating ongoing trade war between the united states and china, the world's two largest economies taking a toll on wall street. >> this was just posted on "the new york post" -- decade in the red. trump tax figures show over $1 billion in business losses. >> the house judiciary committee voting just now to hold the attorney general in contempt of congress. >> we turn to the other big story breaking literally in this hour, a source confirms to nbc news donald trump jr. has been subpoenaed by the republican-led senate intelligence committee.

>> now to news off capitol hill, for the second time in less than a week north korea seems to be poking the bear big time. >> i was just handed breaking news about congressman issuing subpoenas to the treasury secretary and irs commissioner. >> those were a few of the weeks highlights with breaking news and on-the-report responses. 1 and a new york staffer writes -- the array of subjects and controversies about which we lack even basic information shows just how much the public is losing because the white house has shut down legitimate regular inquiries. where exactly is the white house press secretary, sarah huckabee sanders? she's not in the james brady briefing room answering questions. it's been a record breaking 60 days since sarah huckabee sanders held an on-camera briefing. andrea mitchell aptly described the daily briefing as, quote,

reporters taking white house aides after they walk back after appearing on one favorite morning show. as reporters try to pin her down on the white house lawn, she's also well known among reporters for not responding to emails or calls to her seeking comment. but the demise of the daily briefing is not limited to 1600 pennsylvania avenue. last comment from the state department was 29 days ago and the pentagon's last on-camera briefing was 345 days ago. one reason he's agencies are press shy, a former trump administration tells politico, if you get ahead of the president and answer the question and two weeks later he does something different, you look stupid. according to the president, it doesn't count. coming from mick mulvaney, revival of the daily briefs seems unlikely. he said, quote, i would throw it back to the press. are you really making the argument you don't have access to information? goodness gracious, mulvaney said. he's available to the press

almost every single day. you're getting it straight from the president of the united states in a way i'm pretty sure is unparalleled. yes, there's a presidential tweet. trump weighing in this on earlier this year, the reason sarah huckabee sanders does not go to the podium much anymore is the press covers her so rudely and inaccurately. in particular certain members of the press i told her not to bother, but word gets out anyway. the word or white house policy tweeted out in 280 characters or fewer but reporter questions keep stacking up. as susan glasser points out again in "the new yorker," this is not how it should work in a democracy and there is no explanation other than a bad one to why this is happening. the elimination of record press briefings is a broader wash on truth and transparency by a president who will go down as the most publicly mendacious american leader we have had, end quote. jessica chambers, you're on the chamber board.

you're there day in and day out, you got the hard pass and showing up day in and day out and seeing it vacant. your response to this. there are a lot of people who listen to mulvaney or sarah huckabee sanders, we have a proxy, he's talking to reporters. but how much of a problem is it for somebody like you do this job on a day-by-day basis. >> and speaking on just my behalf, not the association -- >> yes, of course. >> the president is taking questions regularly from press but as i told you before, they decreased since a few days before the mueller report and when he's in the oval office, the press pool is in there. you're only in there once a month if you're not a network or print organization, and beyond that some of organizations are not in it. it's not a free for all that everyone has access to all the time. i want to start there. out at marine one when people are shouting questions, he goes to the questions he wants to. >> it's hard to hear with the roar of the engines. >> so he picks and chooses.

that's the president. as far as the white house press secretary goes, it is true, she comes outside and she takes questions but rough tloiz are for about five minutes. the other day we had eight or nine and that's a long amount of time for her. when it comes to kellyanne conway, i will say when she comes after a fox hit or whatever network she's on, she stays for 30 minutes sometimes. that can be a long time as many people have an opportunity to question her during those. but it's true we had toour tact things are. up next, another school shooting this week even though there was more attacked on schools than ever. is there a change coming with as the lobby is under scrutiny? alright, i brought in ensure max protein...

...to give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you don't (grunti)g i'll take that. (cheering) 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar ensure. for strength and energy. ifor another 150 years. the fire going ♪ to inspire confidence through style. ♪ i'm working to make connections of a different kind. ♪ i'm working for beauty that begins with nature.

♪ to treat every car like i treat mine. ♪ at adp we're designing a better way to work, so you can achieve what you're working for. ♪ ♪ corey is living with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of her body. she's also taking ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor, which is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr+ / her2- metastatic breast cancer as the first hormonal based therapy. ibrance plus letrozole was significantly more effective

at delaying disease progression versus letrozole. patients taking ibrance can develop low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infections that can lead to death. before taking ibrance, tell your doctor if you have fever, chills, or other signs of infection, liver or kidney problems, are pregnant, breastfeeding, or plan to become pregnant. common side effects include low red blood cell and low platelet counts, infections, tiredness, nausea, sore mouth, abnormalities in liver blood tests, diarrhea, hair thinning or loss, vomiting, rash, and loss of appetite. corey calls it her new normal because a lot has changed, but a lot hasn't. ask your doctor about ibrance. the #1 prescribed fda-approved oral combination treatment for hr+/her2- mbc. welcome back to "up." i'm david gurria. the deadly school shooting in

colorado is the 43rd this year. that means there's an attack twice a week on average. oo in the seven years since sandy hook, we see many democratic candidates making the issue of gun violence a top priority. >> i started my campaign at parkland. i pledged to that community what i pledge to you. i will be the first campaign to make ending gun violence the top priority in my campaign. >> upon being elected, i will give the united states congress 100 days to get their act together and have the courage to pass reasonable gun safety laws and if they fail to do it, then i will take executive action. >> no other country has this kind of are carnage. more people in my life time has died in this nation due to gun

violence, then all of the wars until now. we are not going to give it thoughts and prayers which to me is just [ bleep ]. i'm sorry to say that as a man of faith but i was thought faith without works is dead. >> the nra, political action committees and gun lobby and do the right thing for our kids and the generations that will follow them. adopt universal background checks in every single part of this country, which had been shown to save lives. >> this conversation happens, the national rifle association, gun lobby, is losing some of its political clout. a man who focuses on gun violence and a report in "the new yorker" is joining us. i want to read a statement from doyle mcmanus from "the new york times" -- a decade ago major candidates avoided taking up gun control in fear of losing rural voters.

even being avoided in photos on hunter trips. the entire base is urban and suburban and passionate about gun control after years of gruesome shootings at schools, churches, synagogues and more. i want to get your read from the reporting you've done at how much the culture has been changing. >> the national rifle association has been a single party organization for -- i don't know -- the last three or four election cycles. and we're just talking about numbers here. what it was spending on elections, it used to spend nominal amounts on democrats, at least in house races. >> bipartisan camp. >> at least have a broad influence or whatever. but by 2014 that spending went to essentially zero and all of the independent expenditures were going and republican and democratic candidates were completely left out of that. so there's actually no political benefit at all for a democrat to come out in support of any of

the nra's policy. >> mike walton, you wrote a book on the second amendment, weighed into these waters, talked about gun violence a lot. let me put up nbc polling here of voters nationwide, 59% support stricter gun control. you can peel that apart and look at democrats in particular, 76% of democrats support stricter gun control. you hear these candidates now, is it different this time of around how much they're talking about the issue? >> it really is different. it does seem there's been a breakthrough of people not being afraid. so much of the power of the nra was fear by politicians that they could lose an election, that they could lose control of the house of representatives if they poked at the nra. a lot of that was paper tiger, they really have intensity and skill but they didn't actually have as much support or as many members or even as much money as people thought they did. some of what we learned from your reporting and others is the organization basically turned

into a racket to make money for its top people and that is part of what is giving these politicians a little more courage. remember, something like universal background checks, that was the bill that was called mansion toomey. 90% public support for it. it wasn't the second amendment that stops it or even public opinion, the fact congress was broken and they didn't try to overcome the filibuster. >> how big an opening is this? we're going to get into the dysfunction within the nra but when you look at the culture conversation and what's happening with the nra, how much of an opening does that create? >> i think to your point it's great we see every major candidate taking this on and coming up with certain proposals and trying to push the ball forward, but nothing can happen unless congress chooses to act. there's only so much the executive can do single handedly, only so much the executive should do single-handedly. so as much as i would like to think we have an opening, only time will tell. if congress has given us any

example within the trump administration on whether they're willing to make hard decisions, you know, in the political client, it's not a positive one. >>er fromming to the nra as a racket, you get your hands on this memo, list of top concerns for the committee, i imagine there's a lot of concerns for the finances of this organization. how did you get your hands on this memo? >> it's actually a number of memos and that memo you're referring to built off an earlier series of internal memos we reported on in the first story. what sort of questions, what's going on? well, a small group of senior executives, vendors, contractors, consultants have over a period of years extracted hundreds of millions of dollars out of the organization, all the way for their own personal enrichment. so this really raises this question of this whole thing, was this whole thing about a

movement, whatever you think the movement means, or was it about building a movement so you could ultimately build wealth? >> and they have guns. >> very quickly, read all of michael's report. it's excellent. buy his book. the second amendment, michael, i took it on vacation much to my wife and daughter's chagrin and we didn't include governor phil ensley in the montage and this guy, forgive me, governor ainsley, i believe he was voted out of congress because of his vote in 1994 on the assault weapon ban. and surprise, surprise, americans changed their opinions on guns with the statistics you just showed. >> and more people last year were killed by guns than cars in the united states. >> and more people killed by domestic terrorists than foreign. thank you very much. i will add an echo to the endorsement pete was giving there. >> very important. >> very important the followups as well. the president likes to boast he can make a deal better than

anyone. but this week the u.s. did not make a deal with china. some are concerned the president could be putting the health of the u.s. economy at risk which could problems for the president as he seeks re-election. rather than worry about how to pay for long-term care. brighthouse smartcare℠ is a hybrid life insurance and long-term care product. it protects your family while providing long-term care coverage, should you need it. so you can explore all the amazing things ahead. talk to your advisor about brighthouse smartcare. brighthouse financial. build for what's ahead℠ or psoriatic arthritis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats differently. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques.

for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ready to treat differently with a pill? otezla. show more of you. ready to treat differently with a pill? it's toughcold turkey.king so chantix can help you quit slow turkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. the president likes to boast t the president likes to boast so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away

if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery. tell your doctor if you've had mental health problems. the most common side effect is nausea. talk to your doctor about chantix. [ chuckles ] so, what are some key takeaways from this commercial? did any of you hear the "bundle your home and auto" part? -i like that, just not when it comes out of her mouth. -yeah, as a mother, i wouldn't want my kids to see that. -good mom. -to see -- wait. i'm sorry. what? -don't kids see enough violence as it is? -i've seen violence. -maybe we turn the word "bundle" into a character, like mr. bundles. -top o' the bundle to you. [ laughter ] bundle, bundle, bundle. -my kids would love that. -yeah.

nick, nick, we need a decision. these days we all feel a little anxious sometimes. but if you could see inside my mind; you'll find i go to my happy place. see if we let tensions run the show up here, then our bodies won't perform at their best out here. wait, aren't we going to the sound check? priorities. so i'm partnering with cigna, to remind you that how you're doing emotionally affects you physically. go for your annual check-up and be open with your doctor about anything you're feeling. physically, and emotionally. body and mind cigna. together all the way. billion a year in tariffs, paid for mostly by china, by the way. not by us. a lot of people try to steer it in a different direction. ultimately it's paid for largely by china.

>> president getting the economics wrong thursday as negotiators tried in vain to reach a deal with china. trade wars continue and imports from china are now subject to larger tariffs. that's bound to hurt u.s. consumers and the president has threatened to put in place more tariffs. the economic relationship with china has been central to president trump's platform since the beginning of his campaign. >> because we can't continue to allow china to rape our country, and that's what they're doing. it's the greatest theft in the history of the world. >> william cohen is out with a new piece in "vanity fair" that looks at how the president has put the u.s. economy at risk. yes, growth is up, unemployment is down but bill cohen writes, like a roman candle the trump economic rocket might go up, but like everything else he touches, it will also come crashing down. bill joining us from albany. great piece. when you look at the state of the u.s. economy and what the president has done for it, he

likes to take credit for it, where do you give him just due? how do you think he affected the state of the u.s. economy today? >> david, thank you for having me. second, he's unleashed the animal spirit across the land. and and economists talk about animal spirits, bankers and business men love to talk about animal spirits. so by deregulating parts of the economy, be keeping interest rates low, by job owning up the stock market, you know, ipos coming to market, you know, entrepreneurs and people feel like they can make a lot of money now and the animal spirits are unleashed. so you have to give them credit for that, i guess. >> you talk about he's been pushing to keep interest rates lower, to get them lower and what you chronicle in your piece is what that means to investors. that is to invest, to buy instruments that are risky, to say the least. give us your sense of how

at-risk is u.s. economy is at this point. how in peril is the u.s. economy at this point? >>. >> i hate to be an alarmist, but as somebody who has studied why the financial crisis occurred 1 1, 12 years ago, it's literally deja vu all over again. one of the main reasons we have the crisis last time is because interest rates were lowered by alan greenspan to low levels. now they're much lower. when people have sustained low interest rates for a long time, they start reaching for yield hunger games. they're buying all sorts of financial instruments that can get them the yield that they can't get by buying safer securities like treasuries. so eight, ten years ago, it was mortgage-backed securities that were rated aaa that weren't really rated aaa. now it's all sorts of collateral

loans, structures, that securities are reaching for yield and they're overpaying for risks, mispricing it and that always ends badly. here we go again. >> and let's pull back and look at the politics here in the remaining time. the president has made no secret that you wants to run on the economy and you look at what happened on the trade deal this week. he is imperilling that. this is going to affect consumers more and more. what is your read of why he is doing this, why common sense doesn't prevail here? he has a good thing going and why would he affect it in this way? >> ego is my only guess. on both sides, too. you have the united states and china playing a game of chicken here. at the end of the day, this trade war, now it's legitimate. we're officially in a trade war with this move here. it really is going to negatively impact both economies. and so the only reasonable explanation i can come up with is that it's ego, that it's just about trying to show that you're tough in some way. but, you know, to william's

point, too, all the signs are there. you also have all of these tech ipos, you have a lot of speculation, you have people spending money and valuing things that do not deserve to have the crazy inflated overvaluations that they do, so i think everybody needs to take caution about where the economy is heading. >> at least we have the consumer protection financial bureau, or we did. i mean, we know xkly what happened. it has been destroyed by president trump and nick mulvaney. >> there's a book, it always seems oh, this time it's different, it's technology, it's this and that.

you can create a boom like this sugar rush will provide -- >> there is no sugar rush. >> from the white house perspective, that is to say these talks were uncertain this week, the leader of the chinese delegation arrived a day later than he was supposed to. they started at 5:00 p.m., they had to wrap up by midnight eastern time. as i talked to investors and they said the reason there won't be a deal, the president won't affect his re-election chances. what would those in the white house say about if overarching message of the economy going forward? >> the reason this is so important to him is because he ran on this. this was a big part of his campaign which was i'm going to get rid of all these terrible trade deals that all my predecessors put into place because i am the best negotiator there ever was and i'm going the put all kinds of new and great and better trade deals into place and i'm going help the

middle class. so this is very important to his re-election. when it comes to what exactly is going on in the markets this week, you saw the reaction when president trump and sarah sanders were claiming there was a deal to be had after president xi wrote him that beautiful letter and seemed to indicate that there might be some sort of a deal this week. that's when the markets started to react more positively. >> those animal spirits that william is talking about, they might be bulls right now, but they can turn into bears real quick. >> it's the manufacturing states in the midwest where he squeaked by with his victory that might see some people who think this is good for their jobs, even as they flea. >> bill, last question to you. we have about 30 seconds here. as i talk to investors, a lot of them say they are experts now at ignoring the president's tweets and i talk about how the president has been owning j. powell. are we seeing an eroding of

that? is that potentially deleterious? >> if somehow jay powell has been moved off his plan to normalize interest rates after nine or ten years of a zero interest rate policy, which needs to happen, is desperate to need to happen, if somehow jay powell is moved off of that through the president's job owning and is now talking about lowering interest rates, yes, wall street begins to notice that. >> great to speak with you, as always. bill cohen, thanks for joining us this morning and my thanks to all of you for joining me at the table here this morning. stay with us today and tomorrow when elie mystal joins us. "up" sunday starts right here at 8:00 eastern. up next here, constitutional crisis, officials held in contempt of congress as those contempt c contempt citations are expected

to pile up. are expected to pile up (music throughout)

so... your student loans are holding you back... from buying a house, investing for retirement, and living your best life? it's time to refinance your student loans with sofi. you could get a lower monthly payment, amazing customer service, and you can see your rate in just 2 minutes. refinance your student loans, and you could save big. ♪ and you could save big. for people 50 and older colat average risk.ing honey have you seen my glasses? i've always had a knack for finding things... colon cancer, to be exact. and i find it noninvasively... no need for time off or special prep. it all starts here... you collect your sample, and cologuard uses the dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers. you can always count on me to know where to look. oh, i found them! i can do this test now! ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. covered by medicare and most major insurers.

[kno♪king] ♪ memories. what we deliver by delivering.

welcome back to "up". we start this hour with an explosive clash between congress and the white house. are we hurdling towards a constitutional crisis? >> we have a president of the united states willing to risk a

constitutional crisis for this nation so he can avoid legitimate investigation. >> the white house and the justice department are at odds. in an affront to our system of government and as a preoccurs to what could become a constitutional crisis. >> i frankly think that we have been in a constitutional crisis for a period of time here. because this president has been operating by chaos. now six weeks after robert mueller finished his investigation, president trump is taking the fight to congress, setting you up a historic showdown between two branches of government that appear to tip the balance of power in favor of the executive branch.

president trump exerted executive privilege to withhold the you mueller report and its jurch underlying evidence. bill barr has been charged with contempt. don mcgahn, the treasury department refuse to go provide the house ways and means committee with donald trump's personal tax information and the president's son, donald trump jr., signaling he may defy the subpoena by refusing to testify before congress. >> we've talked for a long time about approach ago constitutional crisis. we are now in it. we are now in a constitutional crisis. >> do you agree with chairman nadler that the country is currently in a constitutional crisis? >> yes, i do agree with chairman nadler. sometimes people say it's impeach or nothing. no, it's not that.

it's a path that is producing results and gathering information and some of that information is that this administration wants to have a constitutional crisis because they do not respect the oaths of office that they take. >> "the wall street journal" this morning sees the crisis itself for a proxy for impeachment writing this, if you believe what you're saying, madam speaker, get on the with the impeachment. this is a political pinch for house democrats caught between the rage of their base and most voters to settle political disputes via elections. a reuters poll shows america is divided over whether the president should be impeached. up with me this morning, eddie glaw, jackie allenishi, kimberly

atkins and matt welch. there is so many semantic splitting of hairs here. michelle goldberg has a piece in which people are calling this a constitutional hardball. you have senator mark warner, the rank member of the senate intelligence committee saying this is a constitutional confrontation, but not a crisis. give us your read. are we in a constitutional crisis? we're certainly on the edge of one. and i want to -- we have to make a decision. there is the bad actor that is donald trump. there's the mueller report. there's the investigations that are ongoing and the way in which the white house is effectively stonewalling. there is that question, it's on analytically separate of the

ongoing question around executive power. and that argument goes back a ways, right? what we are dealing with are the folks that are the children of nixon, of cheney and rumsfeld, bill barr comes out of iran contra. he is a cheney guy. when you think of emmet flood, there are folks holding the claims of executive power that have nothing to do with donald trump. so the question of are we in a constitutional crisis is in some ways a culmination of an argument that we have been having and experiencing since neckon. and congress has been giving it

away over and over again. >> it's been a very long year this week. when nancy pelosi came to the podium and used the world self-impeachment -- >> it was a startling phrase. >> although very smart on her part, right? because she doesn't want to carry that political burden of impeachment. but i think there's a series, there has been unprecedented stonewalling, bill barr, don mcgahn, all of that has left oversight with very few options,

unless "the wall street journal" wants congress to throw bill barr into prison, which hasn't happened in some time for contempt, but it has been a very deliberate process that has gotten us here. but congress's options have gotten smaller because of the president. >> i'm going on read a quotation from frank rich. he used to be the times now. he's talking about this being a constitutional crisis. as jerry nadler and nancy pelosi have said, we are in a constitutional cry sits. the ultimate crisis may arrive when if trump, if defeated, is a tax legitimacy of the 2020 election. i go back to this glenn prush protile. he was published in the times. he sat down with nancy pelosi. of all of it, what turned out to

be the most, was that palpable fear that she has that if a democrat were to win in 2020, there would not be a peaceful transition of power pap that goes against what michael cohen said when he testified on capitol hill, as well. let's look forward a little bit here. there is the unwillingness or trepidation about calling for impeachment, but there is a concern beyond that, as well. because we have seen norms fall by the wayside, one way or the other. i think a constitutional crisis, we are expecting it to happen one day, one thing will happen and it will say, oh, it's here. i think it's more like climate change. it's been on the way for a couple of years now and we keep worrying about how far it's going to go and that's a prime example of that is if you don't have a mapeaceful transition of power, that would be an issue. it's what do you do in the meantime? there's what democrats do, what they can do, they have the power to hold people in contempt. they have the power to jail

people and they have the power to initiate im you peachment proceedings. but what is the fallout from that? does that send everything to the courts and then you risk having court rulings that the president might defy then? certainly that would be at the level of a constitutional crisis all the way up to saying i refuse to acknowledge the results of an election. how far do you go? the more the democrats push, the reaction can be just the same. and also in a different administration with republicans in the house and democrats in the white house, we're going to see turn about is fair play in the future once these norms are pushed farther away. so it's not just a legal question any more. it's a fair political kal cue lugz that we see them trying to make. >> what do you make of the democrats' tact at this point? if this is a constitutional crisis, act like it and this is her call to arms in that piece. in the face of an administration that's trying to amass dick toral power s, democrats need to bring to be all the powers of their own.

when you watch the dynamic between jerry nadler and nancy pelosi and other members of the caucus, do you see how they might harness their powers? >> i feel like there's been a lot in the last two years on the left side of the political spectrum of policing and gaming adjectives. if you use the right vocabulary, this time everything is going to change. that is not how government works. it's not an adjective war. the constitutional crisis, we're using that this week. okay. well, so the president cities of barack obama and george w. bush both invoked executive privilege to block former administration officials and former white house counsel to testify. this has happened before. eric holder was impeached with 67 democrats voting for it by slow walking documents and refusing to hand over documents. so to eddie's very, very important point, we've been doing this for a while. we've been lop siding everything over to the executive branches for a while. back then, in those cases, we weren't describing that routinely in the media or in

senior political leadership as a constitutional crisis. there is this sense, people are so freaked out on a daily basis and in many cases rightly so over this weird person in the white house that we keep coming up with more adjectives. congress doesn't pass budgets. congress doesn't declare war. congress is on the sidelines and they gave up the power themselves as the president is engaging in trading war with

china he says we have reached a point where we cannot bear their vices or their cure. so we've gotten to a point where we can't stomach trump. and we can't stomach the idea that impeachment is the cure for trump. we've reached a point where everything seems to have broken. >> i'm of the mind you that we have actors on the stage at this point who aren't committed to accuracy. so the crisis cuts so much deeper than the partisan politics that we're hearing coming out of washington, d.c. >> white house lawyers doing their best to stop don mcgahn from going to congress as they tell him not to comply with the judiciary subpoena. how that advice could backfire. a

how that advice could backfire at carvana, no matter what car you buy from us, you get the freedom of a 7-day return policy. this isn't some dealership test drive around the block. it's better. this is seven days to put your carvana car to the test and see if it fits your life. load it up with a week's worth of groceries. take the kiddos out for ice cream. check that it has enough wiggle room in your garage. you get the time to make sure you love it. and on the 6th day, we'll reach out and make sure everything's amazing. if so... excellent. if not, swap it out for another or return it for a refund. it's that simple. because at carvana, your car happiness is what makes us happy.

here'sshow me making it. like. oh! i got one. the best of amy poehler. amy, maybe we could use the voice remote to search for something that you're not in. show me parks and rec. from netflix to prime video to live tv, xfinity lets you find your favorites with the emmy award-winning x1 voice remote. show me the best of amy poehler, again. this time around... now that's simple, easy, awesome. experience the entertainment you love on x1. access netflix, prime video, youtube and more, all with the sound of your voice. click, call or visit a store today.

welcome back to "up." bombshell stories by the "new york times" and the "wall street journal" matched by my colleagues here at nbc news report trump officials asked don mcgahn twice in the past month to say publicly the president did not obstruct justice. don mcgahn declined to do that on both occasions. the "new york times" writing the white house made one of the

requests to mr. mcgahn's lawyer, william burke, before the mueller report was delivered. and once again after. sitting down with investigators from the special counsel's for more than 30 hours in total. the mueller report how the president put pressure on mcgahn to fire robert mueller. the president says this is not true. i never told then white house counsel dawn mcgahn to fire robert mueller even though i had the legal right to do so. if i wanted to fire mueller, i didn't need mcgahn to do it. i could have done it myself. mike, what are we hearing from the white house, if anything, about this? the stories came out midafternoon yesterday. there has been a conversation about the degree to which the white house had earlier exposure to the report, knew what was in it, and now we're getting some sense here of how they might have wielded what they learned from that report. >> right, david. that in and of itself is

controversial. if you recall at the time, william bar, last month, it seems so long ago at this point, there is some question as to whether or not he would run it by the white house before it was publicly released. we're talking about the robert mueller white house special counsel report. initially, the attorney general said he would not do that. he ended up doing that. lo and behold, the white house, working behind the scenes, to double back, to circle back to don mcgahn to get him to try to issue a statement. it is reported that don mcgahn told investigators that he did not think what the president did rose to the level of obstruction. and the story goes that's what the white house wanted him to repeat in a statement. of course, mcgahn declined to do that, as he declined to act on the president calling him twice at home over the course of the last couple of years at the height of mueller investigation trying to get mcgahn to call rod rosenstein and get bob mueller off the trail and fire him as

the special counsel. that, of course, is the nut of the accusation, the suspicion that many have or the evidence, all the evidence that many people need to say that there was, in fact, an attempt to obstruct justice on the part of the president. now, mcgahn, you asked about what the congressional reaction and the reaction here at the white house, everybody is basically stonewalling. they're not giving an inch to democratic subpoenas, democratic requests for documents, democratic requests for testimony to congress from don mcgahn and others claiming executive privilege over a variety of issues or simply in the case of president's tax returns, refusing to what many believe is a plain and simple law, refusing to give those to the ways and means committee. so the stonewalling continues. the litigiousness continues on the part of the president. i'll see you in court seems to be the basic response here. meanwhile, the judiciary committee is threatening to hold mcgahn in contempt of congress if he doesn't show up with the

documents. >> thank you so much for the update. kimberly atkins, i'll quote from jerry nadler on twitter, quote, this is why it's critical for mr. mcgahn to come before our committee and answers questions for the american people. the president cannot keep mcgahn from testifying. in this, the debate over whether we'll see mcgahn on capitol hill may change. how does this change the conversation? >> it does change the conversation. it furthers the conversation in a way. it's this key question whether or not the president obstructed justice, whether he committed acts that amount to obstruction. the justice department saying firmly no while the mueller report clearly says, well, there is evidence here, but because of justice department policy, we will go no further. congress has a role to have the final say as is explicitly said by the special counsel's report. so this is a part of that. and we see time and time again that the president, in an effort to hide obstruction, is actually

committing more obstruction. and cornering someone to essentially lie. if don mcgahn sees this report, sees this evidence and is told by the white house to say this doesn't exist and he refuses to do that, how else do you solve this, other than bringing him before congress and letting him speak? of course the white house will stop him from doing this and this is going to end up in court. that is how you get the image with the white house on one side and the congress on the other. i say we don't know where the court is going to end up on, ultimately, whether the court rules with the white house, the president believes that the supreme court is now behind him with his two appointees or whether he will have to actually fight courts and defy orders. >> when you look at don mcgahn in relief, what do you see at this point? this was the white house counsel, we know lived on his

biography now, plays in a rock and roll band. but he's playing this role in a way he wasn't before. how do you see him now in light of what we've seen reported? >> rick wilson, in the never trump crowd, has the great phrase everything trump touches dies. >> don mcgahn might be the exception to that rule he came out of the mueller report looking the same as he did when he went in. a lot of the critical testimony about obstructee type of acts from the president come from don mcgahn. he refused in this case twice to go out there and two the bill barr thing. remember when bill barr came out, the import of how he produced this was overblown, but i think he shamed himself in this by saying the president

cooperated to his full extent. no, he did not. and trump does this all the time with people who work for him. go out and say this thing about me. go out and sort of defile yourself in my name and in support of me. mcgahn has refused to do that time and time again. i would say it probably is not going to lead to some kind of huge break through, but what it will show is that the president in very sharp relief, that the president is lying. and it's not a good look on the president of the united states to just lie about one of the only people who has come out looking good. >> that takes a lot of time. >> yeah. >> what are you hearing from politicians, democratic politicians in particular just about that? the pressure the time is exerting on the whole process. >> and i want to quickly note,

though, this all did emanate don mcgahn's strategy of transparency and cooperation. it was really an act of self-preservation. in the first place, mcgahn thought the president was going to set him up to be the fall man. there are people speculate that he's the cause of a lot of these leaks. but nevertheless, i think that's why we're talking about impeachment now because the court process is going to take a pretty long time. even with the case of eric holder that took years to be settled, which is why, i think, you see democrats now saying impeachment might be the only legal recourse to sort of leverage subpoenas to their full extent in order to get the information that they think they need in order to proceed with figuring out whether the president obstructed justice. >> we'll be back in just a moment. rudy giuliani canceling a trip to ukraine. the reason, he says the whole

thing would be walking into a trap. (dad) got it? (boy) got it. nooooooo... (dad) nooooooo... (vo) quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker

and is two times more absorbent. bounty, the quicker picker upper.

so i've decided, sharon, i'm not going to go to the ukraine. >> you're not going to go? >> i'm not going to go because i think i'm walk intoog a group of people that are enemies of the president. >> welcome back to "up." a political trap, that is why rudy giuliani says he was not be traveling to ukraine. the "new york times" is the first to report rudy giuliani could take steps to benefit the president's re-election bid. he volunteered to go to kiev to urge him to look into two matters. one is the origin of the special counsel's investigation into russia's interference in the 2016 election. the other is the involvement of former vice president joe biden's son involvement in a oligahch. he said we were not meddling in an election, we have meddling in an investigation which we have the right to do. eddie is shaking his head as i read that allowed.

it's another whipsaw in the cycle, but your reaction? >> this is crazy. first of all, he dyed his hair so it's not as gray as it was. but it's absolutely crazy. and it shows us that congress needs to act, right, and make this sort of maneuvering illegal. there is about having the impact on the investigations. so it seems to me that it's plate end. and we need to stop giving giuliani this platform. >> i made a time of fun about jay seculo, but it's chronicled

in this piece how much giuliani has been traveling. she writes the question comes to mind in part because giuliani keeps popping up in world capitals to make pronouncements that dovetail with trump's foreign policies. he is dealing with people the president's personal attorney, but he's working with governments like the government of ukraine. >> and the government of ukraine. i think that is driving the part of the conversation on the part of democrats that there seems to be a fundamental lack of understanding of, really, the most important part of the mueller report, which is russia tried to interfere with our election and is compromising our election integrity. you have rudy giuliani, his family members coming out and saying those findings don't really matter.

and it's problematic going into 2020. and when you have rudy giuliani now asserting himself to, you know, get involved with potentially intertwining the president's biggest political opponent, joe biden in an investigation in ukraine and having them interfere in our elections, that shows a complete disregard for the mueller report. >> and pull that thread a little bit more here. what does it say to you about the way this campaign is going to be waged, if rudy giuliani was going to do this, what does that tell but the way this campaign is going to be fought in 2016 on the context? >> kimberly pointed out rightly that we're talking about norm secure. what are we seeing in giuliani's behavior? this is absolutely disruchting the norm of american foreign policy. he's talked to them a lot. he has made them clear. trump, you know, i have the full backing of trump here. so you're acting as an agent for the president and you're

corrupted already because you have all these other business interests. and you're telling a country, hey, look, i want your investigation to go in this direction. you're telling a country to prioritize this because the most powerful country in the world has a very vested interest in this. this is much more of a cdios situation than what we are normally accustom to, at least in terms of what's above board and what we can see with our own eyeballs here in american politics. that's what it says to me, this corruption, this sense of, okay, i hate to use a historical analogy here, but vldemort is here and so the death eat her is like, cool. and that's -- we're seeing a lot of true character reveal itself in this sense. i don't think giuliani has gone to seed. i think he's been revealed. >> kember le, in terms of how they're dealing, adam schiff

said today, giuliani admitted to seeking political help from a foreign power. again. back to the issue of normalization, things becoming standard procedure, it becomes harder, i would say, for congress to may hay or deal with these things when it becomes so normalized. >> and that's exactly what rudy giuliani is trying to do. i think the point can be made that this argument is illegal. it is a violation technically of campaign finance rules. but yeah, without an explicit it is illegal to talk to foreign governments and allow them to interfere with election. it is a harder case to make. but remember where giuliani and everyone is meddling. we talked about russian toes try to get dirt on hillary clinton. it's good to talk to russians. we're proud to talk to russians. so it's good to talk to folks in the ukraine.

they need to get involved in this. they have moved the goal post of not just what is legal, but what is tolerable. it's remarkable to see giuliani say, he doesn't want to be trapped? trapped by what? trapped by laws? trapped by constitutional considerations? that's not a trap. that's doing what you ought to have done in the first place. and congress needs to step up and act or else he's going to keep pushing this farther and farther. >> there is a lot of talk of terrain adjustment in washington, draining the swap, changing way business is done. paul manafort hauled off to prison. his bread and butter was working for foreign governments. another thing that was supposed to change or could have changed as a result of the all of this investigation, just the way that business is done in washington, d.c. when it comes to lobbying, special interests, influence pedalling, whatever synonym you want to use, that hasn't happened. we haven't seen anything close to a seed change when it comes to the business. >> not at all. it's imperative that congress

takes up this responsibility. otherwise, this way of behaving will become normalized. it will set the stage for the next executive branch. whomever it may be. and, you know, my dad, i'm a country boy from mississippi. and my dad told me that donald trump has not drained the swamp. he just turned it into a septic tank, right? so it's just this guck that's down there and it's all for his own benefit, right? so what we see over and over again is in some ways a deep and profound and pervasive corruption, right, that is corrupting in every single way, it seems to me, art institutions. and when people say this, and i'll say this quickly, when people say that the institutions are holding, they look like they're holding. but underneath, the term mates are eating out the foundation, it seems to me. so we're, again, on the road to a long standing crisis. coming up here as the release, the unredacted mueller report leads to fireworks on capitol hill. 2020 candidates are turning it

into cash on the campaign trail. some democrats are worried the party's crowded field could back fire for them financially in the general election. for them finae general election tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management. has been excellent. they really appreciate the military family and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life.

♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today.

that have made the rx the leading luxury suv of all time. lease the 2019 rx 350 for $399 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.

welcome back to "up." as tensions mount over the release of the unredacted mueller report, 2020 candidates are using the opportunity to fire up their base. he is not above the law. add your name to say you are committed to do whatever it takes to win this election. president trump is using the mueller report as an opportunity to raise funds. his campaign sent text message. and it seems to be working. the campaign reportedly made a haul. the topic yesterday was opioid

abuse in this country. put that aside for a moment if you would, alley, and give us a sense of how this is coming up, as a fund-raising question or as a rhetorical point when you're with senator warren or other candidates on the trail. >> i wouldn't say this is the meat and potatoes of what democrats are campaigning on. elizabeth warren is one of those people who has been out there saying the house should begin impeachment proceedings after she read the mueller report. listen to how she was asked about it yesterday. >> the disrespect for the rule of law that is happening in the executive department is really disconcerting. and quite a concern for me. >> look, there are some things bigger than politics. and one of those things is the

constitution of the united states of america. the way i see it is i did not take an oath to protect donald trump. i took an oath to protect the constitution of the united states of america. so, david, her campaign at the time, she came out in favor of impeachment proceedings, but this is not the adjourn pinning of her campaign. clearly, she's still trying to campaign on policy, but yesterday one one on of those rare moments where a voter did bring up to her they were concerned about what they were seeing from washington and from the president of the united states. >> safe travels. we will see you here on sunday. i'm struck as he read these

missives from donald trump or bernie sanders about this, how much this can be a tool to convey one's support for something. this is now common when you look at these fund-raising solicitations. how effective is it, do you think? >> democrats have found that this has been very successful for them particularly so far. we've seen this throughout the mitt terms and now having the values issued fund-raising, you click a button and there you are donating using $5 or $10 because you're angry about this one thing. republicans are trying to do that same thing and use every issue. the problem is we're still 18 months out and there's only so much of this that each voter can take. they're compete, each other at

this point. so doing this is a different way to say, you know, different than saying, oh, give to me and not the other person. but democrats in this field have a big headwinds in front of them trying to sustain a campaign for 18 months. they all can't sustain it. >> has it become something is that you can ask about at a rally with a politician like that? >> i don't think that we're going to see a whole lot of questions based on that. and i've been to a couple of down halls up in new hampshire. it's not front and center of what people are talking about.

i think there's a distinction between the join line fund-raising and activity out there. when you have any huge controversy, the best seller list is going to be trump is totally independent and trump is totally guilty for six months. every single cia head has had a best seller talking about the truth on this. jill stein raised millions of dollars somehow off this. there will be action there. but that is not necessarily going to be the same as what voter action and voter interest is. i think the main way you will see this in the democratic field is whoever thinks he or she is in this is a front-runner. i'm winning so i'm the guy who is going to go against the values of that bad man and i think that bernie sanders quote there is maybe an indication.

i have to start acting like a front-runner here more so than it is a reflection of the democratic vote rs. >> tune in to saturday night politics with donnie deutsch tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. right here on msnbc. up next, trying to get the information from the white house, how the latest effort will test the power of the congressional subpoena and what it means for the system if it were to fail. and what it means for the system if it were to fail it's been a long time since andrew dusted off his dancing shoes. luckily denture breath will be the least of his worries. because he uses polident 4 in 1 cleaning system to kill 99.99% of odor causing bacteria. polident. clean. fresh. and confident. of odor causing bacteria. you get the freedom of what a 7-day return policy. this isn't some dealership test drive around the block.

it's better. this is seven days to put your carvana car to the test and see if it fits your life. load it up with a week's worth of groceries. take the kiddos out for ice cream. check that it has enough wiggle room in your garage. you get the time to make sure you love it. and on the 6th day, we'll reach out and make sure everything's amazing. if so... excellent. if not, swap it out for another or return it for a refund. it's that simple. because at carvana, your car happiness is what makes us happy. sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your movement and automatically adjusts

to keep you both comfortable. save $1,000 on the new queen sleep number 360 special edition smart bed, only $1,799. only for a limited time.

liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, hmm. exactly. so you only pay for what you need. nice. but, uh... what's up with your... partner? not again. limu that's your reflection. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

welcome back do "up". i'm david gura. house democrats issuing way in which the congressman for massachusetts the head of this committee has tailored this request for documents has gotten to the point where he is

subpoenaing these two men. >> steven mnuchin has flown several deadlines and said this week that he wasn't going to be abiding by the law in handing over the president's tax returns and then was following that up by attending a fund raiser and fund-raising for the president on tuesday in washington. an impressive thing for a sitting pressry secretary to do. it appears like, many of the president's allies in washington mnuchin is potentially ready to go to prison for president trump. but we also saw this week -- was it this week that the "new york times" came out with -- >> it was. another piece here centering on the president's taxes. >> yeah, with why the president is potentially adamant about withholding those tax returns because it shows him leading up to 2020 as one of the biggest losing american taxpayers with in -- you know, incurring hundreds of millions of losses

in paying zero income taxes which is going to be a problematic 2020 campaign message. and i -- you know, again, this is another issue that is probably going to be raised to the supreme court unless there are -- we move up towards impeachment proceedings. >> but the thing about this issue is, and i think this is why chairman kneel in this fight is the one to watch is that the law is much clearer here. it is a clear statute that hayes the irs shall furnish these documents at the request -- >> shall the operative word. >> yes. >> yes. >> this legal fight is one that the congressman feels confident about if it moves forward with the courts, and certainly if it moves expeditiously, and that's the fight that the lawmakers can win. if you are talking more broadly about where does the line between congressional and executive authority stand? i think this is the one where lawmakers stand on firm ground and they can win this fight. >> let me go back to the piece this the "new york times" by

suzanne craig and her colleagues. there is a line in that piece in which she nods to the fact that this deal with what congress is interested in this point and doesn't follow the narrative of the picturesque donald trump career. what's the case that congressman neil and others are making here that they need to see these taxes? >> for me, someone who is not an exert, it says, okay, if donald trump has demonstrated a pattern of behavior that borders on tax fraud, if he has -- if he has inherited, right, a set of behaviors that border on tax fraud, did he suddenly change? did he suddenly -- was -- did he suddenly convert to someone who behaved differently? what happened over the last five years? why did he get his money?

how is he being leveraged in some sort of way? what would the taxes reveal about this period that he doesn't want us to see that we don't know about. part of the mueller report, part of the questions that we have, had about donald trump is what is at the heart of his object see weious behavior towards putin? why is he behaving the way he is behaving? these financial forms will hopefully reveal that either he had a change of heart or he in my estimation is still as crooked ads he health. >> not going to miss the opportunity to put up this rhetoric -- the headline was no ordinary you a edit, donald trump is facing the irs wealth squad. before he got that job he wrote a meese with regard to obstruction of justice. >> should i he had it that this

is why president trump is about the federal reserve not raising -- >> he might, watching now. >> i ten to be a skeptic about there is goss to be a day when we learn about president trump's taxes that is going to cause us to think differently than how we think about him right now. it might tell us about the deutsche bank loan. that might be interesting because deutsche bank is an interesting bank. i think there is a tendency all over american politics right now to think that the thing, a discovery, the arrival of a report, a nunes memo is going to land, change everything, it's going to be a meteor and everybody is going to have to learn that. the "new york times" fees is an interesting piece which confirms the narrative that he leverages everything, he b.s, it's all

about a brand. he loses a 3409 lot of money, inherited a ton and squanders. and it is really one of the most successful bsers we have seen in american life. he became the president. >> we will leave it there. thank you to my panel this morning. coming up in our next hour all you a.m. joy fans are in for a treat. joy will be making a special announcement today. ancestry is celebrating all the

one-of-a-kind women we call "mom." with an engaging new experience... ...ancestrydna can help her uncover her history... ...to tell a story as unique as she is. order a kit for mom (or dad) at ancestry.com

listen to your mom, knuckleheads. hand em over. hand what over? video games, whatever you got. let's go. you can watch videos of people playing video games in the morning. is that everything? i can see who's online. i'm gonna sweep the sofa fort. well, look what i found. take control of your wifi with xfinity xfi. let's roll! now that's simple, easy, awesome. xfinity xfi gives you the speed, coverage and control you need. manage your wifi network from anywhere when you download the xfi app today.

that does it for me. i will be back at 8:00 eastern time tomorrow. a.m. joy with joy reid starts right now. i'm not going to go because i think i am walking into a group of people that are enemies of the president. in some cases, enemies of the united states. in order to remove any political suggestion. >> okay. >> i will step back and i will just watch it unfold. >> okay. good morning, welcome to a.m. joy. donald trump's tv attorney, rudy giuliani said never mind then telling fox news on friday he canceled his trip to ukraine. according to a "new york times" report on friday giuliani had hoped to mine the incoming government for information that could potentially undermine the successful prosecution of paul manafort who you will recall illegally lobbied for foreign clients do you go the former pro-russian government in you rain. giuliani also reportedly hoped