i mena is up for alex witt. >> thank you, joy. have a great day. it is 9:00 in the west, noon out east. alex is off today. the president, his attorney and new fight in the congress. shows no sign of ending. plus the two words washington can't seem to agree on. >> we're now in a constitutional crisis. >> we're going to hold the ag in contempt. >> i wasser fromming to it as a confrontational crisis. >> crisis or confrontation. >> i think we're approaching a crisis. >> i'm not even sure how you can say we have a constitutional crisis. mrs. political fireworks over a holiday tradition. the major changes the president wants to make to the july 4th celebration. and blonde ambition, a biographer's take on what a

former staffer said about the trump family. developing this hour, house democrats wrapping up the battle as the trump administration stonewalls multiple questions. just yesterday the ways and means committee subpoenaed two allies for the president's tax returns. congress richard neal gave the agencies until may 17th to produce trump's tax records. chairman neal explained why he did not go to the courts first. he wrote, quote, while i do not take the step lightly, i believe this action gave us the best opportunity to succeed and obtain the requested material. earlier a top member of the ways and means committee laid out was on the table if the ways and means committee defies their season. >> we should consider the power of inherent contempt, an old doctrine that allows the congress itself to issue a summons, arrest warrant to an official and demand they appear at a congressional hearing, be

subject to fines, to jail time. i think we ought to explore contracting with aerial correctional institutions, provide additional support to the sergeant in arms so the white house knows we're serious. >> and the president defending his now $200 billion in tariffs to chinese goods. this morning the president again argued the u.s. could make or, quote, produce products in the good ole u.s.a. it's very simple. as trade talks between the u.s. and china stalled yesterday, the president continued to make this misleading argument. >> our country can take in $120 billion a year in tariffs, paid for mostly by china, by the way. not by us. a lot of people try to steer in a different direction. ultimately it's paid for largely by china. >> but experts say it is consumers who will ultimately pay for the tariffs as businesses pass the cost as

higher prices. one group estimates it will cost a family of four on average an extra $7,067 every year. >> it is frustrating because you know most politicians are not familiar what it's like to live every day in the middle class. >> you have to judgele what you can afford and what you can't afford and a lot of people can't even do that. >> we don't know how it will be perceived china is paying for this. we're paying for it and it's being passed on to our customers. today's other big headline, the president formally ask white house counsel don mcgahn to publicly declare twice he did not obstruct justice and he refused. what more do we know about this? >> philip, here's the story, don mcgahn, during robert mueller's investigation told the special counsel, did mcghan, did he not

believe the president's actions rose to the level of obstruction. remember as outlined in the mueller report, don mcgahn was asked by the president, called it home not once but twice, the president asking don mcgahn to speak with rod rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, about getting robert mueller sacked, taken out of the special counsel's office and, therefore, ending the investigation. a lot of people look at that and mueller said he's not exonerating the president on this charge of obstruction. a lot of people look at that instance and want to know more. that includes the house judiciary committee. as you reported in the open, the white house is stonewalling that and a host of other requests. now it turns out the white house during the time reportedly the attorney general sent the mueller report over to the white house to have a look before the public release, the white house asked don mcgahn to put out a

statement to repeat the thing he told the special counsel that he did not believe the president's action rose to the levels of obstruction, don mcgahn declined to do that. and his lawyer, william burke, has now put out a statement. we did not perceive it as any kind of threat or something sinister. it was a request professionally and cordially made. nevertheless, this is going to be more ammunition and fuel the fire. now this constitutional crisis isn't -- is it or isn't it? a lot of people having this discussion but no question about it, there's a collision course the congress and white house are heading straight over the cliff. philip? >> we'll be among those having that discussion in this hour. mike, thank you. joining me now liz goodwin, political reporter for "the boston globe" and wanna summers, national reported for associated press. thank you for joining me today. how significant is this revelation here? does it make it more or less likely that mcghan will testify?

>> i think what's significant about this revelation it shows the length the white house was willing to go in order to show their belief that president donald trump did not fact obstruct justice in the wake of the report special counsel robert mueller put out, which obviously is something democrats on capitol hill are using to continue their investigations into this president. i think we're waiting to see whether or not he will indeed testify but i think it certainly isn't -- this revelation will not do anything to kwas the tensions on capitol hill between democrats and republicans, as democrats continue to investigate this and as republicans like senate majority leader mitch mcconnell declared this is case closed on that report. >> liz, what do you make of the response from mcghan's side? do you think it's an effort to downplay the drama, especially that he can be held in contempt by house democrats? >> yeah, mcghan is a real interesting figure in this drama and has been from the very beginning. he's really walking a tight rope between protecting his own professional reputation and making sure he's always on the

right side of the law and also not wanting to seem like he's a #resistance feeding into any democratic narrative about president trump or any efforts to impeach him. he's just really in a tough place and i thinks he's been under so much pressure from trump for years to try to derail the mueller investigation, put out statements saying he didn't do what he did, which was to ignore the requests to fire mueller, and now he's even under more pressure to put out this statement again to say something he doesn't feel is true. and this is him continuing to thread that needle by not doing what the president is pressuring him do and also not seeming like he's part of the opposition against president trump. >> we know that special counsel robert mueller will not be testifying next week, but if he does break his silence, with that supplement testimony from mcghan and don jr.? >> i would think the congress would still want to hear from

mcghan and don jr. house speaker nancy pelosi was clear she sees this as a long fact-finding process where democrats are doing their due diligence under checks and balances add herherent to this country. and that's they're trying to find the information so they can decide what the next steps may be. >> i want to get your reaction on another story, rudy giuliani abandoning plans to travel to spain. he reportedly wanted to urge that government to conduct a investigation on the origins of the special counsel investigation and the other on joe biden's son and gas company owned by an ole gark. was this manufactured about trump's team to insinuate something about biden? >> yes, it's clear president trump would like to have some sort of scandal waiting for joe biden as he's right now the front-runner in the democratic primary. i think the way rudy giuliani

has handled the fallout from the mueller report is just very baffling. he's managed to keep this angle of collusion in the news, which trump is saying no collusion, no collusion, the report did not find a conspiracy, and yet giuliani continues to say oh, there's no problem with taking information from russians. and then he has to withdraw from this trip under the cloud of wanting to go to a foreign country and encourage an investigation against the united states politicians. so it's really just from where i'm sitting, i don't understand the political thinking. >> what do you think about that, wanna, is this a sign of growing concerns because biden is the front-runner at this point? >> i think it's scleer both from this action and the president's thinking that we've seen displayed through tweets and remarks recently he's incredibly concerned about a biden candidacy and telegraphing that

through his public statements. talking about his nickname and role in the process. he's one of the only candidates you hear him openly opining about. i think the trump team would love to see a general election matchup between the former vice president and president trump as they see an opportunity to distinguish themselves on issues of trade and his record. both of them speaking to the voters in the upper midwest and wet belwest belt, the key to bo of their campaigns. >> i want to touch on this story about the president reinventing the fourth of july celebration. "the washington post" reporting he will move it from the national mall to be closer to the potomac river and planning to address the nation from the steps of the lincoln memorial. liz, what are some of the main concerns you have here that you can see from this possible change? >> i think the fourth of july celebration, obviously it's a tradition in washington that's always been nonpartisan. it's always been separate from whoever's in the white house and

just a celebration of the kufrpt country as a whole so there will be concerns he's politicizing this. and from the president's point of view as well, washington is not a base of support for him. his inauguration crowd was famously very small. it's not where his moat most hard-core supporters are to say the least. you can imagine it not going so well for him. >> sean spicer would beg to differ with you on that one. i want to know what you think of president trump in that forum, what do you think that would lube like? >> sure, absolutely and it's important to note this dates back to the president wanting to create some kind of military-style celebration. he wanted to create a grandpa raid and model of the bastille celebration. now this seems to be the way he's going about it. it has an opportunity to be perilous because it's a long tradition and there's a lot of security. so there are concerns from a logistical standpoint.

it will be curious if he can rally people together. this typically has been nonpartisan and drawing americans and visitors from outside the country as well and a big part of washington life for a long time. >> all right, thank you both for joining me today. new today, more rain in the forecast for the already water-soaked gulf coast. several neighborhoods in houston still dealing with severe flooding with creeks and rivers spilling its banks, forcing the closure of many roads and causing flight delays. meteorologist janessa webb is joining us now. when is that area going to get a chance to dry out? >> this is the prolonged moisture we continue to see coming out of the gulf here. yesterday the severe weather risk decreased across central texas into louisiana. that will spice up this afternoon as daytime highs are still warm. we're still dealing with bans of moisture that will continue for the next 36 to 48 hours.

we have 2 is milli1 million fro to texas and baton rouge, where we've seen eight inches of rain. flood watches and warnings will continue to be in place throughout the afternoon. temperatures are warm so the slight risk of trenzal rain and heavy downpours for 8 million from baton rouge to mississippi and alabama as well. now this whole storm system is going to move fairly quickly and look at this, the carolinas now, 16 million for your mother's day going to be dealing with these heavy downpours and torrential rain. unfortunately, this is really a prolonged event. copious amounts of moisture. we have not seen this kind of rain, philip, since hurricane harvey in central texas. so the big theme, people are trying to drive through that significant rain. turn around. do is not drown. >> wise words there. and a lot of people in the houston area who still have not recovered from hurricane harvey all of these years later.

janessa, thank you. new insight into the president's children and power they yield in the white house. plus the trump family member who is convinced liberal and libertarian are the same thing. an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist. you can barely feel. what's going on? it's the 3pm slump. should have had a p3. oh yeah. should have had a p3. need energy? get p3. with a mix of meat, cheese and nuts.

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the president's family in the government at the time? >> they're a risk that have to be dealt with. >> i speak up frequently and my

father agrees with me on so many issues. i think most of the impact i have over time most people will not actually know about. >> there's simply no one more influential in the white house on the president than jared kushner. >> the president trusts me. >> i'm still my father's daughter. >> former chief of staff john kelly there in a new interview this week suggesting the influence of the president's family has to be dealt with. kelly shied away from naming which tamly members were difficult but tensions ivanka trump, jared kushner and kelly were reportedly high. sources told "the new york times" last year the couple has criticisms directly to the press. joining me is vicky ward, the author of "greed, ambition and corruption." thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> we just heard kelly said it had to be dealt with.

what do you think of that? >> i think it's really serious when general kelly, who after all is really experienced and leader of the military faced serious comeback, knows how to lead battalions, has taken bullets, had a son die all in the name of duty for his country, he talked in that same interview about the importance of serving the nation, that he sees the biggest problem in the white house as the president's children, ivanka and her husband jared kushner. it's really remarkable. john kelly, like steve bannon, who was known to have a personal and political issue with ivanka and jared, john kelly was someone who went in there and wanted to run it like the military. and ivanka and jared just come from a different world. they have a totally antithetical

mindset. they believe rules are for other people, and john kelly was left sort of being stabbed by them. what a tragedy for a four-star general. >> you have known donald trump now for a number of years. who do you think has the most influence over the president, is it ivanka? jared? what are their agendas. >> i say in my book that at the end of the day the president's great achilles' heel is actually his daughter. he had said to john kelly when general kelly became chief of staff that he really wanted them gone. he doesn't like it when people other than himself draw negative attention to the white house. it's fine if he tweets something and that creates a firestorm, it's not fine if somebody else reflects poorly on him. he hated their misuse of private

emails because that was something he had gone after hillary clinton with. so he said to general kelly, you know, to get rid of them, send them back to new york. make their life so miserable that they want to quit. general kelly was successful. if you look at the period when he was chief of staff, jared and ivanka were very, very quiet during that period. it's the president who was -- who couldn't pull the trigger. and i think that shows that ultimately, ivanka, more so than jared, jared is there because he's her husband but the president cannot say no to his daughter, which means this white house is essentially a family business. >> as far as you know, what was ivanka's agenda? does she have one? >> you know, i say in the book she certainly for a while made it clear she had presidential ambitions for herself, and i

think that john kelly really got in the way of those. i think we perhaps are beginning to see the rise of them back again with the very regal tour she had in africa. but, you know, you also see everything that ivanka does in terms of policy sort of ties in with her personal brand. there she was advocating for the expansion of the childcare tax credit. that's all well and good but at the same time she owned her own fashion brand, which was something i think a lot of ethics experts had real problems with. and that own brand employed terrible labor practices. so my admiration for what she tried to do in terms of policy is tempered by the fact it seems to be guided by so much self-interest. >> and that product, that line

of product that kellyanne conway was pitching at one point in the administration earlier. we also learned this week the eldest of the president's children, don jr., was subpoenaed by the presidents intelligence committee. ivanka hasn't testified before any committee. why do you think that is? >> i think it's very clear from a lot of questions particularly the judiciary committee sent out to 81 people, there were an extraordinary number of questions about ivanka, and actually about kushner companies and jared's businesses on that. i mean, my book is all about, it's in the title, "corruption and following the money," and it's actually my hope that congress in a way starts really focusing and digging down on the money trail.

including that of ivanka and the businesses and jared's businesses. that is a slightly different path than all of the focus on russia. i think robert mueller found quite a lot of things that were extraneous to whether or not there was coordination of obstruction of justice and he's farmed some of the witness testimony that he was presented out to places like the southern district of new york. but congress is aware, and i think they real flied to methodically go and look and follow, like watergate, follow the money. >> vicky, before you go, i want to ask you about the story of liberal versus libertarian. can you tell us about that. >> so this is a story back when ivanka was a newlywed living in new york. she and jared used to hold dinner parties and all sorts of celebrities were there. she got into an intense dispute with a guest in which she maintains liberal and libertarian meant the same

thing. when the guest was a little older and perhaps wiser said, why don't we get a dictionary. she said no, no, i will take that under advisement. the point is it doesn't matter if you say things like that when you're just a real estate heiress in new york but it does matter if i suppose you're that ignorant and that lacking in judgment and you're the senior adviser to the president, that's a problem. >> when you have that position of power. all right, vicky ward, author of "kushner i "kushner inc.." thank you. more money is heading to the persian golf than initially reported. the show of strength to iran and how iranian leaders may respond. after another epic week, tonight's "saturday night politics with donny deutsche" separates the news from the noise. you can catch it right here at 8:00 p.m. eastern. >> >> you must stand up. you must stand up.

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john is a -- he has strong views on things but that's okay. i actually temper john, which is pretty amazing, isn't it? nobody thought that would -- i'm the one that tempers him but that's okay. i have different sides. i have john bolton and other people that are a little more

dovish. >> president trump commenting on his national security adviser john bolton on the same day bolton cited threats from iran to expedite the deployment of the uss abraham lincoln carrier striker to the persian gulf. joining me nbc news national reporter, thank you for joining me, kelly. you worked on this nbc news exclusive report about an unusual meeting regarding iran at cia headquarters. how much of this deployment is related to the threats to u.s. forces, and how much is related to concerns over iran's num lar program? >> so this threat specifically that caused the pentagon and particularly u.s. central command to expedite the deployment of the uss abraham lincoln, carrier strike group, and obama task force, and as we learned late friday, a patriot

battle, defensive missile defense system and to move the uss arlington, all of that was moved because of specific intelligence that just came in in the last week or so about iran potentially threatening u.s. forces and some u.s. assets in the region. our exclusive reporting on thursday about this was in fact the u.s. intelligence believed that central iran, the iranian regime had ordered some of these proxy groups there in the region to sort of take the gloves off and to be able to go after u.s. military there in the region. and, of course, as you know, philip, there are a number of iranian prox i forces there in the region. in iraq there have been shia militia groups that are believed to be trained and essentially acting as sleeper cells. they're in iraq and can be act vatd on short notice. in iranian and the baath and, of course, hezbollah. >> are insiders concerned this

could lead to an inner conflict? >> there are a lot of people concerned about that. it's situation to north korea where there's always concern to someone one-off in an escalation to this. in the case of iran we're hearing about these interactions that happened in the persian gulf, particularly in the straight of hormuz, a choke point that moved into the persian gulf. one of the concerns of the u.s. military for a long time has been they will have some rogue iranian guard corps navy leader who decides to sort of poke at the u.s. and maybe take a potshot at a u.s. navy ship or something that could lead to a battle and ultimately grow into some enormous war. that's one of the concerns here. it's similar as i said to north korea with the concerns of north korea launching off missiles, could that lead to some sort of response because the u.s. isn't really sure exactly what their motivations are behind some type of launch. >> we've seen world history small squirmishes can lead to more dangerous things.

president trump said he really just wants to talk to iran. let's listen to what he had to say about that. >> what i would like to see with iran, i would like to see them call he me. what they should be doing is calling me up, sit down. we just want a fair deal. we're not looking to hurt iran. they should call. if they do, we' are open to talking to them. >> what is the likelihood of a summit? >> at the time i can't envision it but there was a time i would say that about trump and kim jong-un. what stuck out to me is so many mixed messages on iran in a short period of time. you have john bolton, national security adviser, talking pretty openly about the threat from iran and threat the united states military, potential to respond to any kind of action from iran. secretary pompeo and u.s.

military have said openly they're not looking for any kind of war with iran but that they're willing to respond if in fact they're poked. the first person we heard talk about the potential for some kind of negotiation with iran though was president trump there at the white house. >> we've seen foreign policy are turn on a dime or a tweet for that matter. thank you so much. >> thank you. donald trump's billion dollar decade of debt. a ghost writer of one of his books during that time of firsthand knowledge of the man during that time will weigh in on whether trump was delusional, deceitful or just plain incompetent. plain incompetent.

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i'm a businessman. i know how to do this. i'm a world class business guy. i built an unbelievable company. very, very little debt, tremendousle, some of the greatest assets in the world, tremendous cash flow, tremendous cash sitting there. >> candidate donald trump campaigning on his self-created narrative of business success but when donald trump published the book "surviving at the top" in 1990 and 1991, he was actually losing over $500 million. and in just ten years trump lost more than $1 billion. that was revealed in new tax documents obtained by "the new york times." and now the ghost writer of trump's second major book is speaking out. in an exclusive column posted to yahoo! news, he writes in part,

trump's portfolio did not jive with what i saw each day, primarily a large extent of him looking at fabric swatches. indeed flipping through fabric swatches at the time seemed to be his main occupation. the thing is it was his comfort zone, in other words managing hotels and airlines clearly wasn't. and charles leersen is joining us now. while he was focusing on those swatches, did donald trump show any concern that he apparently was losing lots and lots of money? >> well, once a day when you're in the casino business you get a report of win and loss on the floor of the casino and someone would come in the office and whisper that in his ear and the news was actually bad. and for 30 seconds after that, he would be upset or ashened faced a bit and then move on. as i say in the piece, his main talent is come partalization.

he is good at putting things in little compartments and moving on. >> one of his associated at a hotel room said every one of his rooms could be filled at capacity every night and it's still not enough to cover the payment of the loan to buy the place. in other words, he made a ridiculous deal. so why did the banks keep lending him money? >> there's something of a mystery to that. part of it was they, the bankers themselves, got caught up in the midst of donald trump the businessman. another reason can use him to bring him along to meetings and request other people. he was always the as seen on tv business guy that they could use to impress. but to a certain extent they were dumb and caught up in the thing themselves. they made the mistake of 20, 30 years before the voters made the mistake of electing him. >> candidate trump repeatedly promoted himself as a self-made

billionaire but "the new york times" revealed back in october he actually received $413 million from his father and engaged in dubious tax schemes. you write you asked him about his father. what did he tell you? >> well, i remember him, you know, i was trying to bring the conversation where we talked about inconsequential things like the yankees all day or, you know, women he thought were hot, and then one time i tried to bring the conversation back to something substantial. i said you haven't mentioned your father. tell me about him and he looked off into the middle distance and he said, my father. he said charles, put something in there. i'll look at it later. he was letting me handle the most serious and important details of his life and feelings. i put what i put and he signed off on it. he was not a big reader, even of his own books. >> you mentioned the idea of compartmentization, one thing trump is above average at is compartmentalization. you mentioned it earlier. from what you have seen in the news, how much is donald trump,

the president, a continuation of the donald trump you worked with all of those years ago? >> he's still very much that. he has to compartmentalize. every day is a new disaster. every tweet is a misspelling or embarrassing, cringeworthy moment so he has to put things in boxes and compartments and move on. the larger similarity is he had no -- no talent for running his business empire. he was completely in ept at it and really had no interest in it. and it's the same thing with the country now. he focuses on so many things fighting with joe biden or making up names for people. little, small things, petty things he can get away with but the country as a whole running that, it can run itself into the ground if other people didn't step in and save him. >> charles, if you were doing all of those things at the time, who was running his businesses? >> sometimes when you do that, when you create these vacuums, people step in and take over the

reins. to a certain extent that was happening. he had some good casino people for a while. but the answer really is no one. people weren't making decisions or they were completely incompetent people -- does that sound familiar -- that he put in positions of power. he put his wife avanna and made her president of the plaza hotel. she had zero experience running a hotel and suddenly running the plaza hotel, one of the biggest and most challenging hotels in the world. that's why it was a disaster and that's why all of these things wound up in bankruptcy court. >> appointing people around him to very high places of responsibility, that does sound familiar. another line i found interesting from your op-ed, you write, quote, each day was a string of such nonsensical moments. sometimes he seemed bored out of his mind. why is that? >> he was in kind of a king midas period at that time. the banks would offer him money for a deal and he would sign and get a loan. it was the equivalent if you bought a house for -- the bank

was willing to loan you 99% on the mortgage and you put down $1,000 and bought a house, that sounds great for a few minutes but then at the end of the month comes and you have to pay that mortgage and each month's ticket was huge. that's what he was faced with. his business quickly cratered. this is not a matter of opinion, this is out there in the records. and the only reason he's a multi millionaire is because his father made him a billionaire. >> the ghost writer of "the art of the deal" recently said that book should be classified as fiction. should yours? >> yes, to a large extent it should be. as a dpoeft writer you sit there and you see what's going on with him, i would try to capture things and observe things and blend them into something and make up stuff he thought or felt, and keep his -- him happy and his fans happy at the time. but at that time he wasn't -- he

wasn't dangerous. he was just a mid-level real estate guy and guy running a hotel and some casinos. he didn't have his finger on a button. so it didn't matter thauct much. now it's the same trump but the stakes are much higher. >> fascinating. thank you for joining me today. >> sure. new "20/20" speculation centering around stacey abrams. will she give it a try? and mare pete responds at president trump's attempt at ridicule. our panel rates the indiana's mayor's response. oh, hey jeff, i'm a car thief... what?! i'm here to steal your car because, well, that's my job. what? what?? what?! (laughing) what?? what?! what?! [crash] what?! haha, it happens. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice. so get allstate... and be better protected from mayhem... like me. ♪

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i've talked about my dreams publicly and i have been discouraged from doing so that i want to be the governor of georgia that one day i want to be the president of the united states, but in between -- in between my responsibility is to do the work to make those things real. >> developing this hour stacey abrams a short time ago giving kmansment address for american university's school of public affairs in washington, d.c. the former georgia gubernatorial candidate keeps fueling white house speculation this week. joining me to discuss this is former new york congressman joe crawley, arena shaw, leader of

the women's public leadership network and rick tyler, msnbc political analyst. thank you for joining me today. those comments you just heard, they come a day after stacey abrams said this -- >> i am looking at several opportunities and that means i'm going to look at the 2020 presidential election. i know we have -- stop, i didn't announce anything. >> she said she intends to be president one day. what is your take on all of that? do you think it will happen in 2020 as far as an attempt at it? >> i think we have to wait and see, it's a crowded field to begin with. but i think stacey abrams is a we viwise person, a person with great political instincts and we certainly have not heard the last of stacey abrams. >> can the democratic field afford to get any bigger at this point?

would it just be helping trump in his ambition if it does grow? >> i love a woman with ambition and i think it's great she's playing coy about it but in this circumstance, it's not good for the democrats. will she or won't she is not helping anyone and the crowded feeling is making it easy to lay out for trump to re-elect. when you give the voters this many choices, when you look so fractured, what looks like a better choice? the incumbent. >> to be fair, joe biden did take his time as well. it wasn't that long ago he made it official. you still believe it would be a problem for the democrats if she joined in? >> i do because she's state level. she's still relatively unknown. her name is not near joe biden's and i hate to call anyone a loser but she's a loser and frankly americans don't like to elect losers. look, i realize that could be debated on many levels. >> there are a number of places we can go from there. >> i just laid it out for you,

didn't i? >> despite the crowded field, president trump seems to be picking his opponent all right. he tweeted yesterday, quote, looks to me it's going to be sleepy creepy joe over crazy bernie. everyone else is fading fast. is there a strategy to what the president is doing to biden, is that who he wants to face? >> i don't think he actually wants to face joe biden and i think he believes joe biden is the formidable front-runner. i think this is joe biden's race to lose and if he fumbles, there will be room for someone else. look, stacey abrams getting in i don't think it's late for her because her name is -- her name recognition is not what some of the others are, particularly bernie sanders and joe biden. but i don't think there's anything wrong with feeling it. hillary clinton meerjed from a two-person field and that was supposed to be an easy layup and he won out of a crowded field. i like a crowded field from a

civic point of view because it makes candidates better. and by the time it gets to the general election, you want a candidate who's been put through the paces and has come meeemerg the victor of that process. that will make for a much stronger candidate. >> anyone want to gloss over that trump debuted a new nickname for joe biden. is it possible joe biden could get too comfortable with the large lead he's gotten so nar? >> far? >> i agree with nick, this field will narrow over time and maybe not a long period of time either. i think what it's reflective of the american people are looking at electability at this point. so i think biden cannot sit back. it's going to be a tough race for him i think but i think certainly being the front-runner right now bodes well for him. >> president trump also giving a little attention to a presidential candidate this week, pete buttigieg, telling politico, quote, alfred e.

neuman cannot become president of the united states. buttigieg now responded to this "mad" magazine reference. let's listen to what he said. >> so i'll be honest, i had to google that. i guess it's a generational thing. i didn't get the reference. it's kind of funny, i guess, but he's also the president of the united states and i'm surprised he's not spending more time trying to salvage this china deal. >> age burn there by buttigieg. he's using that moment to knock trump for not only his age but also his foreign policy. will he now gain more of the president's attention after this? >> i just loved this whole tit for tat because "mad" magazine tweeted, who is steve buttigieg? must be a generational thing. that response was so good. and, of course, he could have given a worse nickname to pete as may peter as he's fondly called. but he usually strikes below the belt in many instances but he

knows he can't attack this man's sexual orientation and typically goes for bad nicknames. i'm just surprised it wasn't anything worse. >> there's still time. >> i guess so, there is. >> with so many candidates vying to stand out in that crowded field we're discussing, does getting singled out by trump now put buttigieg a step above those other opponents? >> yeah, you want to be singled out by trump. i think buttigieg missed his opportunity. i grew up with "mad" magazine. i would love to see albert e. newman as president of the united states. if that were his response, woe have won me over in two seconds flat. i used to read that magazine cover to cover. it was terrific. yeah, when he makes fun of them, look, this name-calling, he will keep doing it. don the con is the name caller. so there we go. >> all right. can't wait for the garbage pale kids reference next. i'm sure that's coming. thank you all for joining me today. a murder suspect leads police on a right bullet-riddled

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. retweet storm. the president sounding off on twitter this morning but not in his own words. tariffs on chinese goods hitting close to home as trade talks come to a standstill. why more price hikes could be on the way. name game, president trump using a decades-old character

tore take aim at his newest democratic target. hear his poignant response. and chaos on a los angeles highway. you might think this is a scene from a new movie. how it all came to an end. good day from msnbc headquarters in new york. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." i'm phillip mena. alex is off today. a fallout after a bombshell that the president sought twice last month to have former white house counsel don mcghan declare the president never obstructed justice. mcghan refused both times standing by what told mueller investigators that he sought to have counsel removed. the first request came before the mueller report was released publicly but after the justice department gave a copy to president trump's lawyers in the preceding days. the second came within days of the release of the mueller

report. mcghan's lawyer writing -- we did not perceive it as anything sinister. it was a request cordially made. the white house has rehe leased don mcgahn to lease information. >> we've subpoenaed mcghan and we're expecting him to show up on the 21st. if he doesn't, he will be subject to contempt, unless he has a court order, which i don't think he would get. and we have to -- he has to respect the process. >> and not lost in all of this, in addition to the case of obstruction, he cited 157 times, more than anyone else. and also new today, chair of the house ways and means committee subpoenaed two trump allies, treasury secretary and irs

commissioner for six years of trump's personal and business tax returns. congressman richard neal gave the agencies until may 17th to produce trump's tax records. chairman neal explaining why he didn't go to the courts first. he wrote, quote, why i do not take this step likely, i believe this action gives us the best opportunity to succeed and obtain the requested material. since this fight will likely draw on, a top member of the house and ways committee is warning they have other tools available. >> we should consider the power of inherent contempt, an old doctrine that allows the congress itself to issue a summons, an arrest warrant to an official and demand that they appear at a congressional hearing, be subject to fines, to jail time. i think we ought to explore contracting with aerial correction institutions, provide additional support for our sergeant in arms, so the white

house will get the message we're serious. >> today's other developing story, trade talks between the u.s. and china ending with no agreement on friday. hours after president trump more than doubled tariffs on $200 billion worth of chinese imports. nbc'sle mike mccara is joini nbc'sle mike viqueira is joining us from the white house. >> he'sing up to the trade talks with the chinese delegate you saw leaving washington here friday afternoon, but things are not working out the way the president had hoped. the chinese, president trump said, changed -- moved the goal posted at the last minute. there were thing as greed on in negotiations in beijing and late this week in washington the chinese now back the out on. the president backing his threat to raise tariffs even higher.

$200 billion worth of chinese goods are going from s10% tarif he put in place punitively more than doublinged than doubled to 600,000 goods. and he said that china is paying that money into the u.s. treasury, these tariffs, when in fact it is u.s. importers and eventually it will be u.s. consumers. the importers will pass along those costs to u.s. consumers. a lot on the line here. markets so far holding steady but the president's ambitions with china are not being realized. he did tweet today, first of all, the president as we often say as we stand here on saturday and sunday, philip, tweeting so very prolifically, more than 60 tweets in a one-hour span. right now we understand he's at his golf course in northern virginia. on this issue of tariffs, he said such an easy way to avoid

tariffs, make and produce your products in the good old u.s.a. it's very simple. it will take time if that's his goal for all of that to ache effect. in the meantime the american consumers can expect to pay more unless the situation is resolved. >> mow free time on the weekend, more tweets. you know how that goes. we that they will try to arrest anyone who doesn't comply with the subpoena. do you envision any scenario that would snap. >> phil, we talked about this last weekend. i'm glad you brought this up. the term constitutional crisis we've seen over the last week people throwing around a lot. i have never -- the lloyd doggett quote, the democrat from the austin, texas, area, senior member of the ways and means committee, talking about hauling in administration officials, empowering the house sergeant in arms to literally dragoon folks in and make them testify or put them up in a jail somewhere at

the capitol police station or borrow from the d.c. metropolitan police? i don't know what to say, that's unbelievable and would speak to a constitutional crisis, a term we could usually regard as hyperbole, but these two sides are heading towards a collision course. i hate to think what would happen if it came to that. >> i can't imagine. where do they even put him? a jail for him to go to? so many questions. mike viqueira, thank you very much for helping me out today. joining me now betsy woodruff, are from the daily beast and msnbc contributor. betsy, back to the china tariff question. i want to show you a graph of some of the products that will be impacted. at the ends of the day it is american consumers who will end up paying for this. who at this point has more leverage in the trade talks, the u.s. or china? >> look, both sides are sort of enmeshed in a really complicated fight. in the same way american consumers are hungry for the cheap consumer goods that china

has been producing at costs that are below what any american companies produce for decades now, and the same way american consumers love buying low-cost products that are made in china, the chinese manufacturing sector also relies significantly on american consumers to buy their goods. of course, it's totally possible they could take those products and sell them in other markets but it's difficult, time consuming, onerous expense to shift the way those products are sold. so both sides have a significant amount of leverage in this space. one thing, of course, that has benefited trump, whether or not he could take credit for it, is the fact the economy is exceptionally strong right now. while many economists predict a recession of some form in the near or less-than-near future, at least for the time being the strength of the u.s. economy in some ways has taken the bite off of this trade war. and that's something that has benefited trump as he's tried to

outlast chinese negotiators to try to get more concessions for them on this particular issue. >> to your point, approval rating at 45.1%, highest right after he was inaugurated. let's hear from voters now what they think about this trade talk issue, let's hear that. >> it's just frustrating because you know most politicians are unfamiliar about what it's like to live every day in the middle class. >> you have to jug whal ygle wh can afford and can't afford and a lot of people can't even do that. >> you are deceived to thinking china is paying for it, but we are and it's being passed on to customers. >> riding this wave of success, does he risk losing momentum? >> i think he does. i think trump is letting politics drive his economic policy. he seems to be the most

concerned with just getting re-elected. he thinks appearing to be tough on china, when at least a democratic candidate might not, that's his narrative, will help him win but the problem is this trade war is hurting us consumers and farmers and amounts to a tax on u.s. citizens. i think what's more concerning than that is he floated this ban to try to bail out some of his own base, i will tax china and use some of this money to help out the farmers, to bail them out of my own trade war. i think that comes at the expense of the rest of the u.s. citizens. so it seems to be a little unfair what he's doing. and he also seems to be recognizing the trade war on china is at least in the near term really bad for u.s. economics. >> strategically it makes sense to protect the base at all costs. let's talk about some subpoenas issued this week, including that of president donald trump's tax returns. betsy, the white house so far has refused to hand over any

information, they already missed one deadline. what's the likelihood congress will get what they want? >> it's really hard to say. ultimately the ball is going to be in the judiciary's court when it comes to this question. i cannot conceive of a universe where treasury secretary steve mnuchin hands over those tax returns without a heck of a fight. so ultimately, the house of representatives is going to have to go to court and likely what they will have to do is try to get a federal judge to order mnuchin to hand over those tax returns. and mnuchin, of course, and lawyers at the justice department who will be defending treasury, are likely to try to fight that all the way up. i don't know how high this type of argument would go, if circuit courts would hear appeals on any ruling that is made, but this is likely something that will end up in the courts. and part of the reason that's so important is sometimes federal courts can take a long time to resolve these kind of dispute

u.s. so unless court expedites the way this particular matter is handled, it could burn through the clock, which is something that's likely to deeply frustrate congressional democrats. >> one of those cases in the obama administration was just settled and that was from 2011. that was eight years it took for that to finally get settled to your point. laura, republican congressman kevin brady, member of the ways and means committee, cautioned his chairman not to issue subpoenas, arguing in a letter it would be an attempt to weaponize the tax code and use congress's legitimate oversight authority for political gain. so, laura, do democrats risk overplaying their hand? >> i don't think so. according to "the new york times," trump lost more than noir taxpayer over the course of ten years, his business losses. there's a reason why he's trying to hide his taxes. it's a tradition, longstanding tradition for president and presidential candidates to release their tax returns, to be transparent about their own personal finances.

it's what the democratic candidates are doing, even bernie. after dragging his feet a little bit, he released his own. so i think the american pim have people hav ask for them. >> same question, betsy, do you think don mcghan is going to testify? >> only if he gets subpoenaed and only if it gets fought out pretty hard. >> laura? >> i have to agree with betsy on that one. it seems like the white house is doing everything it can to stop him from testifying but he doesn't seem to be in the white house's corn kerr. he just denied a request to say there was no obstruction of justice and the white house seems to be smearing him. i don't think it's a good strategy on their part. he maying inclined to testify now. >> i appreciate you peeking in your he crystal balls for us. thank you both very much. >> sure thing. 2020 contenders on the road. senator warren in ohio. senator gillibrand in new

hampshire. five hopefuls across five states as well as puerto rico today. our nbc road warriors ali vitali and jack brewster you on the trail for us. ali, what's happening there? >> what you're seeing behind me is elizabeth warren's selfies she likes to take with people. the big number here is they just hit 20,000 selfies. that's the fun part of the campaign trail but on policy, it is a elizabeth warren event and she's talking about and part of her big swing through west virginia and ohio yesterday is the oip i'd crisis, $110 billion over ten years and putting it into the states trying to fight this crisis. but we also wanted to branch out and talk about trade. here's what she said about how president donald trump has been negotiating lately and over the

last two years in office. listen. >> trade by tweet does not work. donald trump established that over the past two years. he has weakened our economy and put us in a much more vulnerable position. he just doesn't know how to cut a trade deal. but a big part of what we need to do on trade is make sure we have the right people at the table. our trade deals have far too long been negotiated effectively by and for giant multi national corporations. >> and philip, one of the things you hear about from voters here is elizabeth warren's frequent refrain is i've got a plan for that. something she leans into a lot and something voters like hearing from her. in the course of just the past two days we've been talking to folks on the ground, they say maybe they're not decided yet but the fact elizabeth warren stands on stage and tells them not just what she wants to do but how she plans to get it done

and pay for it is something that sticks in their mind and what they will be looking for from other candidates even though it's early to say who they will put down in the ballot box, they like that what they're hearing in terms of policy. >> warren and selfies, let's see if that's a winning strategy. ali, thank you. let's go to new hampshire with kristen gillibrand. shaq, what's going on over there? >> senator gillibrand is emphasizing how important new hampshire is to her candidacy. she's all over hitting brewers, coffee shops and here at the new england college commencement address. this whole thing is emphasizing her strategy in new hampshire. she hasn't been doing that well in recent polling. she is barely registering in some polls and coming up at just 1% at a recent monmouth poll. if you listened to the speech, it was heavy on biography and

bravery. and had a somewhat call of action to graduates. listen here. >> as you graduate, you are entering a world that has so much to offer and a future that is so bright. but you are also walking into a world with some very big problems that must be fixed. health care is still a privilege and not a right. we still face massive income inequality, especially for women and black and latino americans. we face rampant gun violence in our schools and lgbtq and transgender friends and neighbor still don't have equal rights. >> and this is gillibrand's sixth visit to new hampshire. she's trying to just continue to introduce herself to voters and make herself known. she's missing the poll saying it's a marathon, not a sprint.

new hampshire has a lot of candidates here. busy weekend for those who want to go out and listen to the different 2020 candidates. booker, beto, john delaney are also here. if voter wants to listen to the candidate, they have the opportunity to here in new hampshire. >> all there to move the needle. looks like a beautiful day there in new hampshire. shaq brewster for us. thank you, shaq. the electability argument in favor for joe biden for president. why my next guest says democrats could be in big trouble playing it safe. ble playing it safe.

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folks, the fact is that we cannot let this administration win again in 2020. we have to restore the american creed of decency, honor, dignity, leaving no one behind. >> joe biden positioning himself as the man who can beat donald trump as he leads the polls in the race for the democratic presidential nomination. but in i new article my next guest writes, joe biden's electability argument is how democrats lose elections. joining me is the "vanity fair" contributor and host of snapchat's "good luck america." peter, thank you so much for joining me today. is joe biden electable as he says? and what does electable even mean these days anyway? >> first of all, joe biden is totally electable.

he's the democratic front-runner by a mile. get bogged down in snap judgments these days, largely thanks to twitter, everything in politics is the cult of now. but if you look back in previous elections in recent memory since vietnam, democrats win both primaries and general elections when they figure out ways to kind of inspire democratic voters, tell a story, grab them by the heart strings. usually the candidates who have done that, jimmy carter, bill clinton and barack obama are younger, different, they represent a year break from the past. when candidates -- democratic candidates run on electability, the simple argument, i can win, look at the polls. i can bring these new or old voters into the fold perhaps in joe biden's case, they don't win because democrats have this bad habit of thinking with their hearts and not what their heads. take the two recent examples, the most entitled smug electability campaign in recent

memory was put forward by hillary clinton in 2008. she said i can win. she entered the campaign with the slogan i'm in it to win it. that got her to the point where she was ignoring barack obama until it was too late. now to biden's credit, electability arguments are not always fallible. john kerry in 2004 made the case that in wartime environment as a veteran, as i member of the senate foreign relations committee, he could go toe to toe with george w. bush and be a more seb reebal version of the president to carry out two wars. democrats at the time were excited by howard dean but ended up settling with john kerry. remember there was a bumper sticker at the time, date a dean, marry kerry. so they can work but like the case of kerry they have to blend with a message. maybe joe biden's argument we have to restore america's creed

and values, stuff he talked about in his announcement video vis-a-vis charlottesville, maybe that will work. but perhaps what you're hearing from his ail lies and surrogates in the media is i can win elections and democrats tend not to respond to that when it comes down to voting time. >> i want to show you a new poll from monmouth university, two thirds of voters in new hampshire say finding a nominee who can beat trump is more important than the agreement on the issues. is this the snapshot mentality you're talking about in that article? >> it might be. in making phone calls to biden supporters and allies would say this is just a different moment. people know joe biden. they think he can be a statesman on day one and clean up the mess. you talk to elected officials who had been around for a while, mayors, governors, they like biden because they think he can do the job. but polling is just mixed on this. it cannot be stressed enough how early this is.

we in the media class get upset in the day-to-day-to-day minutia. hillary clinton in national polls was beating barack obama in the end of 2007 by 20 points. four weeks later she lost iowa, not only finishing behind obama, but also john edwards. polls show people like joe biden. they think he can win right now but he's still the only real known commodity other than bernie sanders in the presidential race. you can look at other polls. cbs news had a poll that showed generic matchups, would democrats prefer a woman of color or white man, they chose woman of color. younger or older, they chose someone younger. there's a lot of mixed impulses right now. the only thing we can glean from the polls is people like biden but they're top new ideas and faces. we haven't had a debate yet oar paid media yet. there's still such a long way to go. joe biden starts out with an unmistakable advantage but it's

still may of 2019. >> sure so going by your bleeding hafrt over the head argument for the democratic party, who stands out to you from this current massive democratic field to fit that category for you? >> sure. here's something i noticed this week, pete buttigieg was here in los angeles. he did a fund-raiser in west hollywood at a legendary lgbtq club. it was packed. it was packed with people. like even dennis rodman was there. it was like such a weird, crazy mix of people, but these people were stirred by mayor pete's sort of history making candidacy, what he embodied. again, the last democrat to win two presidential elections in this country in the last 20 years was a black guy named barack hussein. democrats nominated twice him and then a woman hillary clinton to be the democratic nominee. democrats tend to pick people who feel like they are making

history, who represent clear change. but what buttigieg is, though he's not the only horse in that race, he has a long way to go, especially with african-american voters who are very predominant in the primary, but the people on the campaign trail and getting large crowds are the people in new hampshire, elizabeth warren, beto o'rouke, pete buttigieg and kamala harris. bernie sanders might be but his problem is he's a known commodity to almost every single democratic primary voter. since biden got in the race he's in second, third place at 18%, 19%. still early but it seems like one of the younger candidates would an advantage. >> fascinating article you would find on vanityfair.com. one thing i will remember is the worm is a fan of both pete

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new developments in the fight for president trump's tax returns. house ways and means committee chairman richard neal returning fire after treasury secretary mnuchin mch refused hand them over. neal now handing subpoenas to mch a mnuchin and the irs director. joining me to talk about this from "the washington post" david fahrenthold, also an msnbc political analyst. thank you for joining me today. does chairman neal think these will be more effective than the first time he asked for them? >> you mean effective in getting treasury secretary mnuchin to produce them, he shouldn't believe that. that won't happen. the law is pretty clear mnuchin does have to produce them. mnuchin declined citing a loophole that doesn't exactly exist in the law. he said you're not asking for legitimate legislative purpose which the law does not allow a

loophole where that works. so we will possibly see a battle in the courts, supreme court, which will determine if this law from the 1920s is constitutional. if it is neal might win but we're talking months and months down the road. >> you reported on the takeaways from president trump's tax reforms from 1985 to 1994 which was reported by "the new york times." what do we know now that we didn't know before? >> a couple things. first one is breaking the myth of trump. we knew in 1990 and 1991 he was in severe financial trouble. he really overexpanded and his empire collapsed under the debt he had built under that period. what we didn't know a few years earlier when he was riding the high of "the art of the deal"

and businessman, he was riding the wave before this crashed. it's one thing we learned, even back then it was all a mirage. second of all, we learned the way he used the tax code. seems in this case he was doing taking losses that were borne boyer people, creditors, lenders, investors and counting them as his losses and gaining a tax credit that way. >> tell us how he worked the stock market to his benefit. >> this is amazing. i guess people knew about this but i didn't. i learned about it from the story. it was said trump in the '80s used the wall street gecko reputation he built up. he would talk to the media and say i'm thinking about a leverage buyout or hostile take over of american airlines, c carville ice cream. and the stock would go up nouxt donald trump buy a bunch for the hostile takeover. but according to "the new york

times," trump wouldn't have taken over the companies or wouldn't have had the money if he wanted to. he just wanted to drive the stock price up. he would buy a still stock, talk about the hostile takeover bid and then drive up the price and sell it at a private. to describe how he did that again and again and again in the late '80s and that was basically his only successful money making venture, basically telling bogus tales in the stock market. but that unraveled in 1989 when investors, the fifth time he tried to do it, investors said wait a second, we're not going to believe this time. and trump tried to keep going after lost a lot of money at the end of it. >> we know legislators are trying to get ahold of trump's state tax returns. tell us what we can learn between the state returns and federal returns. >> there are some differences. new york state has an income tax. it has a pretty robust tax

system. i think you would learn a lot about trump's fm history over the last few years looking at his state tax returns. that's why it's so interesting what's happening in albany, after the long fight about trump's tax returns, new york is moving quickly to make the new york tax returns available to congress. we could get all of the information fairly quickly if that succeeds. >> david fahrenthold, thank you for joining us today. a good percent of americans think president trump should be increased while many sound the alarm to presidential crisis. what are the steps to hold the president accountable? after another epic week with "saturday night politics with donny deutsche," operates the news from the noise. catch it at 8 p.m. here on msnbc. after a special edition of "a.m. joy" at 7:00 eastern. is the oc. just listen.

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shots fired! shots fired! he's shooting at officers. >> frightening moment during a high-speed chase in los angeles friday, a gunman leaning outside of a window and shooting at officers. investigators say the unidentified suspect is wanted in a deadly attempted robbery. the passenger and driver were stopped and being treated at an area hospital. thankfully, no officers injured there. new reaction to democrats raising the alarm after attorney general william barr did not comply with the subpoena for the unredacted mueller report.

the administration is holding to the president's demand to fight all of the subpoenas and that's sparking outrage and concern among democrats. >> we are now in a koon constitutional crisis. >> this is a constitutional crisis create the by a president who doesn't have the respect for a rule of law. >> they are the ones pushing us towards a constitutional crisis. >> we're clearly in a constitutional crisis. >> joining me now is peter emerson. he worked in three, count them three, democratic administrations and the dpormer speechwriter for then senate majority leader bill frist. i want to start with you. can we go to peter this question here, i want to know, peter, we have been hearing about the constitutional crisis. what does that actually look like? >> i think it looks like what it's evolving to be but it's a crisis of chaos, which we certainly see daily. it's a crisis of national

security, which we are seeing now with no strategy, whether it be venezuela or iran. it's a skries of global leadership, friends who work for our allies in europe and africa and central latin america, don't have anything or trust of this president. it's a crisis to of bankruptcies and suicides in our farming kmurnty because of t community because of the tariffs, it's a crisis because of the violence in our churches. and it's a crisis because in our economy, all of the conditions today are very similar to the great cash of '08. but it is also a crisis of profound crisis that a very senior diplomat texted me this morning, the nation is crying out for deliverance. >> amy, what do you think about that? do you think we're in a constitutional crisis? would you categorize it that

way? >> that seems to be the buzzword. you heard the democrats' montage saying constitutional crisis. with nadler trying to subpoena the documents from attorney general william barr the only crisis there is being manufactured by chairman nadler. he's a very smart man. he's a lawyer. he knows the attorney general cannot turn over a completely unredangted report because it contains grand jury material. there's a court case in washington, d.c., d.c. district circuit, appeals court, that found that no grand jury testimony is private. it is secret. even long after caves, ancient history, even long after everybody is dead, and cannot be given out for public interest or congressional inquiries. congressional inquiries are not judicial inquiries. all to say chairman nadler is trying to have a war and use attacks on bill barr instead of

basically going after the king. right now he's going after some of the king's generals. but the polling data that came out say the majority of americans do not favor impeaching the president. we have to find out if democrats push forward to please their progressive voters. >> amy, by blowing off all of these requests, do you think the congressional powers are being diminished by the trump administration? >> i think you have to look at it on a case-by-case basis. you see the intelligence committee subpoena don jr. because they are investigate gts the russian meddling. they want to know what don jr. knows and his interaction with that. i think that's legitimate and congress deserves to know that testimony. but when we're talking about grand jury testimony, this is just a matter of law, if chairman nadler wants to get that grand jury testimony, he knows perfectly well what needs to do is go to a federal judge, ask the judge to release it and he also knows that the answer

he's probably going to get is no. >> peter, i want to get your reaction to something hbo's bill maher said last night. let's listen to that. >> i feel like we're in a permanent state of constitutional crisis now. democrats either do something or stop talking about it. because i think you're just making yourselves look weak. you're just making yourselves look like people who talk and talk and don't do anything. >> peter, is he right? should there be more alarm, more action, more something if they're going to be throwing that term around? >> well, the inevitable may be impeachment because trump wants to be impeached, that's clear. so i agree you have to take it case by case but at the end of the day, the president of the united states wants to be impeached. he's doing everything he possibly can to made it unavoidable just by the nature of our laws as well as the constitutional responsibility that the house has for reviewing

crimes and misdemeanors. >> explain to us why the president would want that. why would the president want to be impeached? >> historically it will show, as happened with clinton, ultimately it accrues to the benefit of the president. second, the senate will never convict because it's run by the republicans. third, it galvanizes his base and as amy pointed out, most americans want to move on. democrats need to wake up and recognize it's emotions that drive voters to the polls. it's emotions. it's not broad policy ideas like a trillion dollar infrastructure packaged one candidate proposed. voters don't care about infrastructure. they care about potholes. they care about traffic. they care about bridge closures. they care about whether 32 million americans may lose their health care because >> translator: said lettrump sa let's get rid of the affordable care act. so democrats have better wake up quickly to the fact if they're going to continue to talk about impeachment, they better start

talking about meegsal issues and the two most powerful are financial security and health. >> quickly last word, amy? >> i would agree that democrats going down this rabbit hole of endless investigations of the president do not address the voters' top concerns which you can see in polling. the economy, health care, immigration, illegal immigration is very high on voter concerns. i think that democrats are actually not doing themselves any favor by keeping the focus on what most americans wish we would move on from. >> my thanks to peter emerson and amy holmes. thank you for joining me. washington state governor jim inslee will be talking about his presidentialp run and why he wants a debate dedicated to the issue of climate change.

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>> thank you very much. >> new hampshire is a challenging state for you. how do you approach a key state like that? >> this is where i start, i'm ready for this, because we have a message saying we need to face this existential threat to climate change. it is an existential threat to our economy, our health and our national security. i have the boldest, i believe, and most in depth plan to do that, i have the most experience to do that. i'm urging all my candidates, the vice president and others, to join me and ask the democratic party to have a full-scale debate on this so we can get our plan on the table. i'm confident that once people see i really have a plan to grow an energy economy, i hope we can have that debate. >> how do you plan to get the audience you're looking for if you're not able to get past the threshold and get on that debate

stage? >> we're confident at our ability to do that. we're at about 55,000 donors now. if people share my view that climate change has to be on the debate stage, i would welcome them to go to jinslee.com and send in a buck or more so we make sure climate change is on that debate stage. because we know this is such a great economic development for us. we know that today, look, moderation is not a solution to climate change. you can't be in the middle ground when people in davenport, iowa are seeking the high ground because of these floods right now. look, our house is on fire. we need a nominee of the democratic party who will stand up to donald trump's idiocy saying wind turbines cause cancer when we know they cause jobs, and i'm perfectly prepared to do that as the governor who has had a 100% clean electrical grid bill. i just passed strongest in the nation, the best building codes, and approaching 55,000 electric

cars on our roads. so i have a vision, i have the experience and the passion that i think is fitting this moment. and this is a moment for the democratic party to lead this nation in a new clean energy revolution. >> governor, i want to ask you about frontrunner, joe biden. he's facing new criticism after reuters reported he's looking to take middle ground approach on climate policy. just a short while ago, you tweeted that it's clear we need a climate debate. governor, why will a middle ground approach just not cut it? >> well, it's a situation -- look, if your house was on fire, would you urge a moderate approach to that? would a middle ground solve this solution? and if you go to paradise, california, which is a town of 25,000 people, totally burned to the ground that i visited, you wouldn't think of middle ground as up to this issue. i am concerned. i heard some of the things coming out of the vice president's campaign to suggest

that we should remain whetted to fossil fuel, and we just don't have enough time in this regard. we have to have 100% clean electricity like i've done in my state. we need to have 100% transportation fuels in the next decade or so, like i've done this my state. and we need to take the accomplishments that i've been able to achieve in my state and make them national. that is the only response appropriate to this national crisis. this is a climate crisis. we need to address it as such. and having a nominee who has had a multi-decade approach to this as i have, i'm up to that job and i think the moment demands it. >> real quick here, we have less than a minute. if you implement this nationwide, how could your 100% clean energy bill transform the economy? keep in mind this current economy that we're in that is thriving. >> well, listen, the fastest growing part of our economy is clean energy. clean energy jobs today are

growing twice as fast as the average in the u.s. economy. we're building wind turbines in iowa, we're building electric cars in michigan, we're building batteries in nevada, we're building carbon that goes into electric cars in my state in moses lake, washington. this is a growth industry across the united states. but we need to make sure those jobs are here not just in china, and we need a nominee in the party who has an understanding to do that. i'm hoping to have that position. >> and you say wind turbines definitely don't cause cancer, is that right? >> it does not. it causes jobs. request denied twice. a new report about what the president wanted from his first white house counsel. s first white house counsel. we're oscar mayer deli fresh and you may know us from...

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