good to be with you from msnbc world headquarters in new york. it's 7:00 out east. and 4:00 in the west. game over over or constitutional crisis? washington tries to find solid ground while the president blocks more than a dozen democratic probes. and why the president just gave congress good reason to

look at his taxes. and stacey abrams 2020. what she told a crowd this weekend. we're getting word on how the president is trying to block investigations by house democrats. the administration is not complying with 79 requests for documents or other information, that includes exerting executive privilege over the unredacted mueller report. declining to disclose concealed communications between the president and vladimir putin. refusing to provide documents over white house security clearances. and the administration's immigration policies, just to name a few. one of the immigrations may come to a head tuesday. a federal judge is expected to rule on whether a president can quash a southbound recording records from his accounting firm. the president claimed that 2016

voters did not care about his tax returns. but a member of the ways and means committee has this argument. >> the american people do care if this president has obeyed the law. that's what we're trying to find out, to make sure this president is being audited properly and he has filed his taxes, paid his fair share and has not had conflicts of interest and not benefitted from the tax law he just passed. >> one man is projecting into the future. >> i believe this will come down to justice roberts. he should believe about the constitutional system. i hope he will follow the law, expedite this and rule for congress. also today, on trade negotiations with china, the

president claiming under a democrat president the chinese will continue to, quote, rip off the u.s. this as allies seek to ease fears that tariffs will hurt farmers who are crucial for the president's base. >> the tariff strategy is going to hurt certain industries pretty hard. he's said to the warm farmers, going to give you a government subsidy to hold you over. his message to the community is we have to fix this problem. we're going to subsidize you while we're putting pain on china. >> president trump is lashing out at don mcgahn, tweeting he was never a fan of the former white house counsel. what is behind all of this? >> reporter: president trump was a fan of don mcgahn. he repeatedly praised him until

he left the white house last october. this is the latest wrinkle in the great undoing of don mcgahn. he was the mastermind behind one of the signature achievements of the trump white house, which was packing a lot of the courts with conservative justices throughout the country. since then, he's become one of the many cajoles that they have been using. and the biggest named official in the white house, on riggs interference in the 2016 elections. that's what he was referring to in that tweet. i did not fire bob mueller. he was allowed to finish his report. lawyer don mcgahn had a better chance of being fired, not mueller. not a big fan.

this is according to "the wall street journal" and other publications on friday, saying that the white house went to mcgahn after the redacted report had been published and asked that don mcgahn release a statement saying he didn't believe that the president, as has been conveyed in this report, that the president's request to fire bob mueller amounted to obstruction of justice. don mcgahn refused to release a statement to that end. this is not the first time he's kind of affronted his employer at the white house. the white house released a statement saying that don mcgahn should not release documents that he was using when he was the white house counsel. that was a major confrontation, that is likely to be drawn out in the courts.

as it stands, this is only in the twitterverse. but this is likely to play out in court, in this massive drama that's been unspooling. >> we'll see if don mcgahn will testify. matt, thank you. i want to bring in julia manchester, reporter for "the hill," and shawn sullivan, national politics reporter for "the washington post." let's delve into what we heard. the president, dozens of tweets over the weekend. we also got this reaction, from mcgahn's lawyer. it was a request, professionally and cordially made. >> it's interesting to see the

president relitigate something that a lot of republicans hoped were put to rest. democrats are not done looking at this investigation. it shows how concerned the president and his team are about the public relations aspect of this. they wanted to demonstrate with a statement from mcgahn that he wouldn't provide, that the president did not do anything wrong, did not do anything criminal. but it will raise the question in the coming days, particularly among republicans why the president is doing this. why he is being proactive about this instead of turning the page. >> you have the president failing to comply with a congressional subpoena. it demands that he testify publicly. what is the expectation on the lil of the likelihood of that

happening? >> it's hard to tell at this point. we've seen so many twists and turns with don mcgahn and the public relations to all of this. this doesn't help the administration the moore it goes on. the republicans want to move on, especial lly ahead of 2020. the president continues to tweet about the russia investigation. mcgahn is someone that can concern him because of the knowledge he has and the conversations he had behind closed door s. if he testifies, that is a public relations problem for the white house. i don't think the majority of the american people are necessarily paying attention to

this ongoing saga. polling shows there's a bit of a fatigue talking about the russian investigation. that applies to the president, as well. i heard this idea that if the president stays quiet and lets the court battles go on, that could take a while. >> you say it's quiet when it comes to that. shawn, your paper broke down the democratic asks that the president is stone wawalling he. is this a strategy to run out the clock for these requests? >> it's a defiant strategy. it's not uncommon for the executive branch and congress to have tensions when it comes to

document requests and subpoenas. we're seeing this whole new level. the question is, where does it go and how to democrats respond? we're not just talking about requests being rejected. we're talking about subpoenas and multiple investigations that have been impeded. the question from democrats is what do you do from here? a lot of this is tied up from a legal standpoint. if the trump administration continues to defy these requests, what do you do next? does this raise the talk about impeachment more the? do democrats want to send a message, not only to the trump administration but to the american public. saying, if this administration is not going to cooperate with us at all, do we need to escalate -- do we need to talk about impeachment. we've seen house democratic lead lead leaders, they don't want to go down that route. the more defiant this administration becomes, it begs

the question will the democrats change their tone and talk about impeachment more? >> there's impeachment, but there's another alternative, arrest and jail. when it comes to the president's tax returns, that escalated. the president, personal financial records. you have congressman doggette saying he will do this. >> the congress to issue a summons, an arrest warrant, at an official, to appear at a congressional hearing, be subject to fines and jail time. i think we should be contracting with correctional institutions. provides support for our sergeant at arms. the white house will get the message that we're serious. >> joe, you cover congress very closely. do you see that as a reality at all? >> from the lawmakers that my

colleagues and i have talked to, i haven't talked to any that are at that point, that's quite a bit of a leap that he's taking. you're hearing more talk about impeachment or obviously the contempt proceedings than you are about getting the sergeant at arms or arresting the attorney general. that's quite a leap and the american congress should be cautious about talking about this. there's a lot of fatigue watching this play out. and it could be perceived as a soapbox drama playing out on capitol hill, if a move were to be taken. however, i think there is a lot of concern among democratic lawmakers and many of the american people that, you know, there is a -- they perceive this as a constitutional crisis happening. they are being stonewalled by the white house, by president

trump, refuse iing re ining to the subpoenas and others around him refusing, as well. >> do you see the fear of fatigue pushing the taxes? he said, democrats want to relitigate tax returns and make it part of the 2020 election. he won in 2016 without releasing those. is that risk there for the democrats for that fatigue? >> there's risks for both sides. for democrats, the question is, will the public look at what they're trying to do? the information they're trying to get through, the documents, the subpoenas, as a good faith request to get to the bottom of more unknown information. or do they see it as a political fight. they are saying the democrats

want to go after this president because they don't like him and want to disagree with him. democrats are saying, we're trying to get to the bottom of multiple questions we have. we're trying to use our powers to get this information. how will the public view that? that will determine if it does shape the 2020 election. we've seen president trump run as a defiant figure, someone who has rejected the norms of washington. it's not surprising to see him do this. will this turn off the moderate defensive voters? his base might like this, not that he is bending to the demands of the voters. are they going to turn against him and look at this and say, you know, this is not something the president should be doing. this is a new level of defiance. that's the question we have going into 2020. >> this last week, we're talking

about iran, china in trade, missiles and projectiles. to both of you, thank you so much. julia manchester, sean sullivan, thank you for your time this sunday morning. the headline reads, they worked for obama. they're not supporting biden yet. why some advisers are sitting on the sidelines. this daughter was home visiting when mom saw a chip in her windshield. >> mom: honey is that a chip? >> tech: they wanted it fixed fast so they brought it to us. >> mom: hi. >> tech: with our in-shop chip repair service, we can fix it the same day... guaranteed. plus with most insurance a safelite chip repair is no cost to you. >> mom: really? drive safely. all right. ♪ acoustic music >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, ♪ safelite replace. i felt i couldn't be at my best wifor my family. c, in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured and left those doubts behind. i faced reminders of my hep c every day.

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billion in tariffs, paid for by china, not by us. a lot of people try to steer it in a different direction. ultimately, it's paid for, largely by china. >> president trump claiming that china will pay the cost of tariffs in a trade war with the united states. a deal will become far worse for china if it has to be negotiated in a second term. he added, it would be wise for him to act now but love collecting big tariffs. joining me is ron insana, senior adviser to the schroeder investment company. great to have you with me. very confusing. let's break it all down. does the person buying the goods pay the tariffs? >> yeah. >> why is the president insisting that china will pay? >> economically, they will pay because it reduces the likelihood of selling more in the united states, if their goods come to the u.s. and are slapped with 25% tariffs on $200

billion worth of their products. the cost is absosrbed by the imparter and if the importer raises prices by the consumer. not like china is writing the united states a check for $20 billion that goes into the treasury. that's not how tariffs work. >> we're talking about soap, bikes, smartphones, washing machines, groceries, all of that. let's break this down when it comes to sticking points. you have chinese officials who assume talks will resume. you have beijing's demand to remove all additional tariffs. the targets on goods by china. and the warning. let's look at these, starting with the china vice premier, saying the trade war was renewed by tariffs. is that reasonable? >> you would expect that the

punitive tariffs you put on their goods would be removed. what the president has suggested, is they would be on as long as it took to verify that china was complying with the new trade agreement. reasonable people would argue that is something you want to use as a carrot and stick approach. the president is saying once we agree with what you want, remove the tariffs. that's one of the main sticking points. if you cut a deal, you would lift the tariffs. >> let's start about the second part of this. they're saying we're not buying u.s. goods just for sake of making a deal. doesn't that go to the heart of the trade deficit overall? >> it does. and china does buy 70% of u.s. soybean production. they're pretty big purchases there. they could afford to buy more and on the energy front, china is an importer of energy

products, like natural gas, of which we have a surplus. they buy american cars at this point. there's nontariff barriers that keep u.s. businesses from selling as much as they could into the chinese economy. that's a sticking point and a real issue. but, yes. no matter where you look at a trade imbalance, the demand should equal the supply coming in. not unreasonable, but it's an unclear demand on their part. >> and the third part, the deal must be equal and dignified. we cannot give in on our princip principles. why is the wording important here? >> this comes to enforcement of what the u.s. deems as china's theft of intellectual property.

one of the earlier drafts read differently in chinese than it did in english. it looked like the chinese were dancing around the issue and reframing it in their own language. it meant something different for them than it did to us. we want protections for u.s. properties, to give up their c technology to access the market. it's been pointed out this could also be from the u.s. perspective, just the initial phase of a wider war. you listen to folks like steve b bannon, they view china as a threat to the united states. this is part of the economic trade policy and foreign policy, as well. whether or not we cut a deal on trade, there's no guarantee it's going to get easier going forward. and if china does not exceed our demands, we could see tariffs

putting on all $550 billion coming here. >> can you say who wins and who loses? you mentioned the items being affected. rural workers, affected by it, too. >> farming communities are getting crushed. and the president offered $12 billion in federal assistance to farmers, many having soybeans rotting in the fields. china is buying from russia and brazil. the last serious protectionist measures occurred during the 30s and exacerbated it, that the depression got worse. when you see these wars over trade, no one benefits, in the short rub or the long run.

there could have been better ways to approach china to get them to come along. they're violating certain wto rules. if we joined the transpacific partnership when the president entered office, we would have much more leverage with china than we do now. the president is banking on a strong stock market here at home, to put leverage on the chinese. >> ron insana, thank you for the breakdown. the new information that surfaced this past week about the president's taxes. why this could be one more reason to look into it. let's be honest. safe drivers shouldnt have to pay as much for insurance... as not safe drivers! that's why esurance has drivesense.® the safer you drive, the more you save.

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there are new claims this morning from the president, who is fighting back against democrats and their efforts to obtain his tax returns. in a tweet, he attributed his 2016 presidential victory in part to his efforts to hide his financial footprint while claiming he is still under audit. earlier in the week, the president suggested his $1 billion losses revealed by a "new york times" investigation, were to avoid paying taxes, calling it sport. a new "washington post" column argues his response, quote, just gave the house a very good reason to look at his tax

returns. joining me now is katie fang. katie, good to see you again. >> sure. >> we'll start with the request for the tax returns. secretary mnuchin delayed the request for those, saying it lacked a legitimate legislative purpose. did "the times" legitimize that request? you're hearing a president who essentially bragged about avoiding tax codes. >> there's a legal way to avoid having to pay the full maximum you would have to for your taxes. there's a 95-year-old federal statue that allows the house ways and means committee to get the tax returns for the president of the united states. what it ends up being is, what is donald trump trying to hide? if we all know from paying our taxes, when you sign your tax return, you do it under penalties of perjury. there's been several people that have been successfully

prosecuted for fraud, for tax evasion, because of the representations they've made on several tax filings. you know donald trump likes to pass the buck, no pun intended. and he likes to blame accountants and lawyers for things he gets caught up in. but fundamentally, mnuchin can raise the defense that there's no legitimate purpose to the house and ways committee demand and the subpoena for the tax return. but he's going to lose. the courts are not going to support the position. and donald trump will have to turn over his tax returns. >> the accountability for the president's book, "the art of the deal" who is responding to the president's financial losses claim. let's listen to that. >> i would be willing to bet a lot of money, if i were a betting man, that vast parts of those losses that he claimed, that are part of the $1.1 billion in taxes he avoided,

were fake. they were made up precisely to avoid paying taxes that he legitimately owed. >> you have paul manafort, spending 7 1/2 years for tax crimes. how can the president be held accountable here? >> no one is above the law, the president of the united states or the joe on the street. we're trying to look at the tax returns and congress is looking at the trump entities. trump foundation and the trump organization. why? eventually, there's a way to find a misrepresentation. you look at different tax filings and the source documents, the bank statements, the financial statements, the balance sheets, the things that made up the evidence that was used to submit the tax filings to the court, you're going to

find a problem. i'm not talking just a slight misnumeration on one page. i'm talking an affirmative misrepresentation. trump will not turn over his tax records. and you see several candidates openly turning over their tax returns. >> is there something there? he says over these years as a private citizen, he has been audited. is there nothing to see? >> that's a great question. is there something there there would we not have heard about it? donald trump has been a public figure for several years. it's a really good point. i don't know what level of scrutiny it's gone. if it's been a full irs audit, he has escaped liability or exposure. but the question remains being, why is he not duturning over an complying with the subpoenas, unless he has something to hide. >> we will see. maybe not.

katie, thank you for being with me. we're just getting started this sunday. at the top of the hour, it's "up with david gura." >> it's interesting to see who the president has invited to the white house for meetings. tomorrow, he will sit down with the prime minister of hungary. he is a right-wing populist leader. one thing the two leaders are expected to talk about is immigration. we're going to see how president trump'st policies are resonating outside of the united states. according to reporting, president trump is frustrated what is going on in venezuela. he is blaming john bolton. in particular, he's pushed for intervention there. and what happens when advisers

fall out of favor in this white house? >> a whole lot to cover before you and i get our brunch's on later today. up next, the heroism of two young men in two school shootings. how does it fit into the new paradigm of run, hide and fight. >> we want to say, we love you, kendrick. we will remember you forever and always. er and always r young couples. then we noticed something...strange. oh, could you, uh, make me a burger? -poof -- you're a burger. [ laughter ] -everyone acts like their parents. -you have a tattoo. -yes. -fun. do you not work? -so, what kind of mower you got, seth? -i don't know. some kid comes over. we pay him to do it. -but it's not all bad. someone even showed us how we can save money by bundling home and auto with progressive. progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents. but we can protect your home and auto.

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now, to the morning's headlines. the u.s. coast guard is back at the site of a toxic chemical spill in houston. a barge nearly sliced in half when it collided with a tanker on friday. thousands of barrels of gasoline spilled into the ship channel. the investigation the accident is under investigation. 20 cars were off of the tracks due to flooding. crews have carried out high-water rescues after high rains in the area. peggy lipton, the model and actress best known for her role in "the mod squad" has died of cancer. the golden globe winner was born in new york city, married quincy jones and sharing two children. new concerns about how students are being trained when confronted by life or death

situations in classrooms. kendrick castillo was shot and killed when he defended other students in colorado. he is being called a hero and credited for saving lives. his actions didn't surprise his grieving father. >> he would not let somebody get hurt, if he had anything to do with it. if he had to be there to protect somebody, that's what he was going to do. what i want from you guys is do your best work and show the world who my son was and what we lost. >> kendrick joins an alarming number oftake ing matters into their own hand. joining me now is ken president of the home safety and security. you are saying that kendrick took actions. run, high, fight, the training in schools.

tell us about the drim drills what they teach. >> there's some multiple options-based training, as it's known, programs that some schools are beginning to train students and staff in, across the country, particularly after handy hook and the parkland school shootings. these programs shift from lockdowns, which have been proven to be highly effective, to teaching kids to run and to engage and attack the gunman. there's a matter of semantics how people describe that. but there's concern s we have with that. executive function of the brain doesn't develop until the mid-20s. but are we asking kids to make decisions that police and military-trained officials struggle with. special needs children. mobility impaired. there's a number of concerns

with that, especially when it is trained. individuals will make actions based on their decisions and personal backgrounds and experiences and motivations. do we train this? do we train to a standard of hero status and create a scenario where kids feel they are obligated to inject themselves into a situation that may not require that. there's kids that were suicidal that were talked down. do we train those kids from suicidal to homicidal? there's a lot of considerations. and we're finding this training alone has had, from one insurance company, who insures schools, more than $1 million in 22 months paid in just workers camp injuries to staff and the training. >> you've been clear how you

feel about it, educating educators and setting up kids to become martyrs in this case. let's talk about the options. before we get to the fight part, all of the factors you mentioned, age, those who are special needs. as a parent, i've been taught, hey, you hide. don't go out and be a hero. we hear that saying all the time. what are the options before we get to that point and the kids have to make that choice for themselves? >> we want to talk about prevention. the number one way is from kids that come forward and tell an adult they trust, when they have a culture of recording and confidence for adults to follow through. the second thing, is threat assessment teams and protocols. are we training our educators and school officials, how to

evaluate threats to intervene when needed before an incident ever occurs. there's a lot of signs, and how do we get better to responding to threats before they culminate in a crisis. and focus on lockdowns. it shows that lockdowns work. you can look at a number of scenarios where self-evacuation has degrproduced a target-rich environment. have kid gas out on a fire drill and come back out and lock down. but not go over the top where you cross the line of reasonableness, into a zone where you cause more trauma, more harm and anxiety. >> that's a tough part right there, when it comes to run, hide and fight. it's very, very difficult for a kid in that situation. you may say, yes, they've gone through this training.

but we don't know what kids would do. have you found resistance or criticism when you have a school and you run, hide and fight? you have some parents saying, i don't want my kid to fight. >> the vast majority of schools are not using this training. more is a relative term. particularly, the research on how much trauma these drills cause for students. and we find the same thing with staff. staff members and school employees bring their own type of drills alone, where they can trigger a lot of stress that people bring to school with them. children and adults. >> with that argument, and criticism from some, we cannot say enough for those kids like kendrick castillo, who ended

their lives fighting. >> we respect them and their families. as a parent, nobody can understand the trauma and the respect we have for them. it's how we move forward and learn from that, and make sure we respond in proportion and appropriately. we value it. really, have a lot of sorrow for the parents and a lot of friends. >> thank you for the insight. >> thank you. elizabeth warren, draws cheers. do trump supporters have wandering eyes? later... every chip will crack. this daughter was home visiting when mom saw a chip in her windshield. >> mom: honey is that a chip? >> tech: they wanted it fixed fast so they brought it to us. >> mom: hi. >> tech: with our in-shop chip repair service, we can fix it the same day... guaranteed. plus with most insurance a safelite chip repair is no cost to you. >> mom: really? drive safely. all right. ♪ acoustic music

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i'm conscious of what we're up against. in many respects, the situation is so serious that even no wu may well be under reacted. the horror show in washington is mesmerizing. we have to remember that in 2020 we get the chance to change the channel. >> 2020, presidential candidate pete buttigieg speaking at a human rights event. he didn't just take shots at the trump administration, he also made headlines for calling out democrats for playing identity politics. let's bring in bishop garrison,

co-pounds for the center for public policy and republican strategist brian darling, founder and president of liberty government affairs. let's jump in starting with you, bishop. is that a risky road for buttigieg to go down? >> first and foremost, happy mother's day -- >> thank you -- >> to my own wife and you, as well. to my wife and to my mom and sister watching, as well. to all the mothers out there. i -- i don't think that this is necessarily a dangerous road to be quite honest. what i do think is that -- as we see across the board that these democratic candidates are beginning to show the nation and the world that they are strong leaders, and they're taking the opportunity to really differentiate themselves from one another and providing these different types of ideas on how we should move this country forward. it's ultimately what the voters want to see, that's what the voters want to hear. >> we see elizabeth warren, brian, another notable moment there. she made a stop in rural west virginia bringing her proposal

for the opioid crisis to the epicenters of addiction here. you've got "politico" who reported trump backers applaud warren in the heart of managea country. it draws nods, even a few cheers in rural west virginia. can she attract bipartisan support? >> yes. i'm going to have to wish a happy mother's day to my mom and wife and to you. but when you look at senator warren and what she's doing, i think it's very smart. she's run a very issues-based campaign. she's trying to differentiate herself from the other candidates running. that's smar that's smart. she's in trump country, bashing pharmaceutical companies for the opioid crisis. it's playing well with many trump voters. ultimately, she's pivoted so far to the left. i don't think her as a general election candidate will have much of a chance because she's just too far to the left. she's part of the new democratic socialism that's poisoning the democratic party. >> bishop, your response to that? i can see --

>> counter point. >> yep. >> my biggest thing with senator warren and with all the candidates but in this particular case senator warren is that she's putting together true policy, she's putting forth new ideas that really resonate with people. we're talking about west virginia. she went into the heart of trump country and provided ideas that resonated with these individuals. what they went is leadership. they're tired of attacks and nicknames. we've been terrible about ensuring that everyone knows the latest nickname trump might give a candidate. what about the latest policies that the individuals want to hear from? what about his ideas on health care, on taxes, on the environment? this is why she did so well in this area because she actually is creating policies that people care to hear about. >> yeah. all right. let's talk about joe biden here. you've got the "washington post" explored why obama aides are holding off and said, speak of many hope for a new generation

of leadership and a fresh face that can transcend political decisions. they're woried about siding with a lifelong fix eer and do they t see somebody who fits the bill when it comes to that, brian? >> i think democrats have a tough decision. there's a significant part of the party that wants new leadership. they'reograph gaffeitateding to- gravitating toward this, they want obamacare for all. maybe democrats don't want to have another hillary clinton situation where they coronate the wrong attend. i think many are, frankly, sitting on the sidelines seeing if any of the other candidates, up and comers like elizabeth warren, like kamala harris, get fire behind them, get some excitement, and become an

alternative to joe biden because nobody wants to endorse this early. >> bishop, i want to ask you about stacey abrams and comment. she ruled out a 2020 senate bid. here's more of what she had to say. >> i've talked about my dreams publicly, and i've been discouraged for doing so. that i wanted to be the governor of georgia, that one day i intend to be the president of the united states -- [ cheers ] but in between my responsibilities to do the work to make those things real. >> bishop, "i intend to be president of the united states." how do you read into that? >> that she has political aspirations. i don't have any issues with that. of course she eventually intends to run for president, but that says nothing of 2020 right now. i think stacey abrams like many of the other individuals watching 2020 want new leadership and is very excited about that. and she absolutely has the political acumen and policy ability to be a candidate for the presidency. that doesn't mean she means it right now. she's simply not going to close

the door on anything, nor should see. she's a professional that really is hungry for new leadership. and she may be the change that we see, to be quite honest. but this particular line just shows that she's going to continue her political career with strength as she should. >> we'll see where she ends up. bishop, darling, to both of you, thank you. and thank you for the mother's day shout out that i president trumptively thought was for me. more coming up. > >>more coming up love at first slice pizza lovers everywhere meet o, that's good! frozen pizza one third of our classic crust is made with cauliflower but that's not stopping anyone o, that's good!

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click, call or visit a store today. that will do it for me this hour of "weekending with alex witt." i'll see you all again from noon to 2:00 p.m. eastern. now it's time for "up." this is "up." the president lashing out at his former white house counsel as house democrats continue to demand don mcghan testify. >> we've subpoenaed mcghan, and we're expecting him to show up on the 21st. and if he doesn't, he will be subject to contempt. >> a new report calls it the most expansive white house obstruction effort in decades. the white house is blocking more than 20 congressional