get e*trade's simplified technical analysis. we've been talking politics. and beto o'rourke is rachel maddow's special guest tonight. thanks to you all. the best of the best. thank you so much for watching. that's our hour. "mtp daily" starts with steve kornacki in for chuck. thanks for that. president trump has another head snapping moment in the oval office. good evening. i am steve kornacki in new york in for chuck todd. welcome to "mtp daily." we have a pair of major developments that are both brewing at this hour. the president is in the middle of an escalating trade war with

china. markets tumbled today after china announced it is retaliating against the new tariffs, which the president this afternoon threatened to increase. obviously the economic developments have tremendous potential implications, heading into the 2020 campaign season. and at the same time, the president this afternoon made some potentially big news having to do with that race. >> on your campaign, sir, will you commit to not using information stolen from a foreign adversary? will you make that commitment? >> i never did use, as you know, that's what the mueller report was about. said no collusion. i would agree to that. i don't need it. all i need is the opponents i'm looking at. i'm liking what i see. >> and i'm joined by nbc news chief white house correspondent hallie jackson at the white house. you heard her asking that question of the president about using stolen material in next year's campaign. also with me onset to he-- on s,

ben white. and for politics, political analyst and republican strategist susan del percio, and rashad robinson. ha hal hal hallie, the president pointing to no collusion, no findings of collusion in the mueller report, but remember the president was out there in 2016 on the campaign trail pointing over and over and over again to wikileaks. is he drawing a distinction there saying look, this was publicly -- wikileaks put it on the internet, the press reported on it, therefore it doesn't count as using stolen information? how are they justifying that remark. >> reporter: he is not publicly saying that. i don't know if you can hear in the exchange, i tried to make that point to the president in the oval office when he started to talk about how he never used it. i said wait a second, you talked about wikileaks a whole bunch on

the campaign trail, but you heard the president's response. he continued on to say he would in fact commit to not using stolen material in the next election if it came from a foreign adversary. i think the line you're drawing is an important one, steve, that the president seems to be making the distinction in comments between information that's available and out there and information that's for his campaign only. similar to what i heard from campaign officials. i think back to last week, for example, on this program we talked about the possibility that rudy giuliani may fly to ukraine to dig up dirt on one of the president's opponents. and a campaign spokesperson said in essence hey, if it's out there, it's out there, if you will. that said, steve, this is notable from the president still, right, this commitment. it is something his campaign had not committed to. one of the colleagues monicaalabout a said he would not say that. grain of salt when it comes to president trump. we heard him make commitments in

the past and not follow through. i think that's fair to say. there's precedent for this. i remember when he told chuck todd he might consider releasing his tax returns. we all know how that turned out. >> and susan, that's an interesting key point. you never know a week from now, month from now, middle of next year's campaign. >> 20 minutes from now, steve. >> what we're going to hear. >> i wonder about that. you mention the president's response to this question and the fact that rudy giuliani after brazenly saying i'm going to the ukraine, i'm there to investigate. and then saying friday, never mind, i'm not going to go. does that reflect any sense in the trump political operation that there is a political danger to being so closely associated with some of these things we're still talking about from 2016. >> i don't think they care if it helps them win. they play fast and loose. they don't vet people. they certainly won't vet their campaign information that they

get. they don't care. they don't care. let's not forget the mueller report. several things are important about it, but the mueller report said that russia meddled in our elections, they messed with our democracy, and the president of the united states, donald trump, has nothing to say about it. he refuses to confront putin on it, he refuses to immediately call for action on it. this president will do whatever it takes for him to get elected and he will lie, cheat and steal to do it. >> what are you expecting from the trump campaign? >> i expect a reality show. that's how it all started. that's how donald trump came to be as a reality show contestant, businessman on reality tv, lied about being a good businessman, now the news stories tell us he was losing money on top of money, and i'm expecting a campaign that will lie, cheat and steal and do whatever is possible to get to the white house. and unfortunately we've also -- they colluded with the supreme

court in going after voting rights, they've been able to have the silence of the republican congress and so many republican elected officials, so the fact of the matter is they're going to use whatever is at their disposal to get back into the white house and hold onto power. the question can be can democrats inspire a base, create a new base of people to turn out to overcome that, and that will be the question about the upcoming election. >> i have one point. i don't think he colluded with the supreme court yet, he put on his justice but i don't think he compromised the supreme court because that would be a huge milestone the country has never seen. while i'm not one to defend him, i think we have to be careful in our words. >> so what i'm saying is that the supreme court has colluded with the idea that suppressing the vote, suppressing the vote of certain people is acceptable. and the fact they were not only broke down section 5 of voting rights act. >> the 2013 decision.

>> and i'm also talking about ways in which we can read tea leaves of what we saw when the census decision came up, that the republicans could go up to the supreme court and argue they were trying to put the question of citizenship on the census and use the voting rights act as the reason, like they somehow suddenly care about people participating. >> i want to stick on this where we started and on the politics specifically of this question of potentially another wikileaks in 2020. >> right. >> some politically damaging information being stolen by a foreign government, in terms of this white house's attitude, i'm wondering if there are aspects of the trump political operation concerned about the politics of this, and if that is something reflected, for instance, in that decision after guilliani said that, the fact that he is not going. would somebody catch that and

say wait a minute, guys, let's not go down this road so eagerly? >> the sense i got is it was blow back most problematic. in the hours before guilliani changed his mind or reversed course, whatever you want to call it, campaign officials in and around trump world were all too able to accept information that guilliani and the team came back with, given the argument was it is out there in the public domain, and the argument goes democrats would have done it as well and would do it in the future. again, we asked a variety of campaigns about this question, steve, and in fact it is the trump campaign that's been the outlier. from a political perspective, the trump orbit, people in the trump world are looking at some of the same data you and i are looking at, some showing that democratic voters care more about election interference than republican voters do. >> i want to shift to the economy. we have ben here and i have questions about the trade war and what it will mean.

the point that hallie made, democrats candidates are pledging not to. if a hostile government hacked donald trump's tax returns during the campaign next year, off limits? >> i think donald trump's tax returns are probably sitting out there already in certain ways, and people are not trying to share them. i think here's the question. >> i guess -- i don't know, i am not working on a political campaign, and i represent an outside organization that works in primaries and is not an operative for the democratic party. i would hope -- >> do you think it should be off limits, again, if trump folks say democrats would do the same. >> here's the question, i hope they wouldn't. and at the end of the day i once again don't think that's going to matter. i don't think that the democrats' role to beating

donald trump is exposing his taxes or getting some tape of him with a prostitute or porn star. i don't think that's the way we're going to win. we're going to win by running on the issues, by inspiring people that haven't turned out before and expanding the base of people that believe this democracy is for them. i think over and over again we exposed donald trump as a liar and a cheat, we exposed him as so many things, and it has not mattered to his base. we have to do something different if we're going to win. the question is not whether democrats can play as dirty, it is whether democrats can fight. >> is it something you rule out, would that be off limits? >> it should be off limits, 100%. full stop. done. >> ben. the economy, trade war. talking about the president in 2020. let me put it to you this way. the threat today of escalation from the president, how real do you think it is that it will escalate on the american end

versus how much of this is leverage play. >> some of it is leverage play, the risk of it escalating is significant, there is no clear path forward for talks between the chinese and u.s. to get to some agreement. that's largely fallen apart, the chinese backed away from certain agreements they made. and we're not far from the point that president trump puts 25% tariffs on everything china exported to the u.s. last year. 5 $550 billion of goods. that is passed on directly to the consumer. wall street was operating under the theory these are rational actors that will come to a deal because the alternative is so bad for both sides. i think you have to discount that. i don't think it is obvious there will be an agreement. we could be in for a rougher ride. >> in terms of the economic implications, if it gets to full scale point you're talking about, the dow, how else will that be felt, how soon will it be felt by the average american? >> it will take time for the

prices to go up. there's lag time between his making that move to 25% to the point where goods are coming in and taxes are being applied. but not that long of a lead time. china will then retaliate further, less access to china for u.s. ag producers, no corn, soybeans, that's across the midwest, iowa, wisconsin, industrial midwest is hit by that, and then consumers see it on everything they buy. the last goods that we haven't tariffed yet is consumer goods, iphones, diapers, everything you get at walmart and best buy. so it is bad for exporters and bad for consumers and certainly bad politically for trump. >> that's the question politically. we have been talking about how the economy to date has been doing pretty well, yet donald trump's approval rating at best is in the low to mid 40s. if the great economy has not been boosting his approval rating where you would normally expect a president to be that

way, would it change in the economy bringing it down or be the stubborn range. >> i think the president's plan is not to grow beyond his base and people that supported him last time, against every conventional wisdom out there, rather hope he is running against an opponent that will keep people at home. i think bernie sanders would meet that criteria, someone people just won't come out and vote, for different reasons than they didn't come out to vote against hillary clinton, whereas joe biden, people will come out for, he won't be able to keep them home. when we look at the politics of it and i guess throw it over to ben, the day after the second debate, democratic debate, the 27th, the 28th is the g 20, where we're going to see xi and the president potentially meet. i'm curious, he may be all hyped up after hearing the debate, and what can really go wrong at the g 20. >> a lot can go wrong at the g

20. it is the next pivotal moment where the president has to make progress with china, he has to get trade talks back on track. if he doesn't, if there isn't a meeting of the minds there and lessening of tensions, you get more market selloff. i could see a scenario under which they have a bad meeting at the g 20 and a bigger selloff on wall street or trump realizes voters he needs, he can't rely just on base and can't turn off farmers and consumers that may look at the economy and say it is okay but i don't like that i am paying more, i don't like that i can't sell my stuff to china. i am willing to take a flyer on the other person. he has to make progress. >> that's the question. who is the economy good for, when you see what's happening with the stock market. that's happening for some americans but many americans are working extra jobs, having to take on extra loads to make ends meet in a way that when the white house talks about how amazing the job is and when he talks about black and latino

numbers are soaring through the roof and you are in black and latino communities and people aren't seeing that sort of return. the other thing i would challenge you, i wouldn't be sure to be an expert on what the democratic base was. republicans -- you need a strong brand of people to turn out. donald trump had that. >> this is interesting. >> to be clear, i did not say that. >> you walked through what democrat candidate was better. >> i tell you what -- we're going to talk about this during the break. i have to squeeze in a break. hallie jackson, thank you. stay with us. ahead, the democratic party is facing a probing question, how far are they willing to go to investigate the trump administration. and joe biden is surging, has a massive lead in a critical early primary state.

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steve mnuchin doesn't get to determine for the legislative branch a separate co-equal branch of government when we can pursue a particular subject. >> 71, 7214 in the code is over clearer as to what happens if you do not hand over the tax returns. there are fines, there's jail. this is serious business. >> i think if you fine someone $25,000 a day to their person until they comply, it gets their attention. >> welcome back. congressional democrats are making a lot of threats as the white house continues to stonewall their investigations. with me, a democrat from california and member of the house oversite committee. thank you for taking a few minutes. all of the different

investigations we have been talking about, subpoenas, requests for documents and requests for testimony that we have been talking about for a few weeks now, did you expect when these requests started going out that this would be the attitude you were met with by the trump administration? >> i did not. i expected there would be back and forth, there always is, every administration resists congress, then there's some accommodation. they say let's compromise, have these witnesses, these documents. this has been a blanket denial, basically contempt for congress, and without any concern about separation of powers. >> so we have been talking about traditionally when these sorts of disputes have gone to congress, talked about this with harriet meyers a decade ago, gone to the courts, eric holder a few years ago when he was held in contempt, they've taken years to get through the court system. adam schiff was asked about this yesterday, made news by talking about something called inherent contempt. take a look. >> we're going to have to

enforce so much of this in court and we're seeing signs already, i think this is positive, that the courts understand the urgency here. we are going to have to consider other remedies like inherent contempt where if the courts take too long, we use our own judicial process in congress. >> inherent contempt theoretically allows them to send out the sergeant-at-arms and take into custody somebody that's not testifying. the other option that's floated by schiff are fines which have never been leveled before. how would something like that be enforced, do you think? >> sam irwin threatened this famously in the watergate hearing and even the nixon white house sought to comply to avoid that. i think fines would be appropriate. you could have steve mnuchin ask him to give us tax returns we are entitled to by law back 95 years. they have a right to know if the president is complying with the same tax laws they are, and if

he doesn't, there should be consideration of fines. ultimately i dpragree the court can resolve it, and i hope they will. >> do you have any expectation based on what you've seen with responses to the subpoenas and various requests, if you start to level a fine, the response would be different? do you think they would say here it is or say no to fines? >> i think it could be a game changer. not everyone is going to want to incur a fine to protect this president, not everyone is going to want to be held in contempt of congress to protect this president. i was encouraged that the court is ruling expeditiously on the tax return issues, the district court, and i hope chief justice roberts that cares about credibility of the courts will recognize we're at a constitutional stalemate.

>> congress, you would have more latitude in pursuing what it is you're seeking if you opened a formal impeachment inquiry. at that point you would have more means at your disposal to get documents you're looking for in many cases. has the response you have gotten from the administration increased that appetite? >> i don't think that's necessary. if you talk to speaker pelosi or committee chairs, we have most of the investigation powers we need. i don't think anyone believes that suddenly donald trump or the administration are going to begin to comply with proceedings or requests if we opened up impeachment hearing. we have case law on our side. the courts are clear. congress is entitled to documents when there's allegations of misconduct, and executive privilege here doesn't apply. partly some witnesses waived that privilege in giving testimony to mueller, and

secondarily i believe the law is already on our side. >> you are seeing some signs the courts are treating it more urgently than we have seen in the past. you're optimistic view, when do you think you might have information you're looking for turned over from the administration? >> the most important thing is for the country to hear from bob mueller. i hope that that can happen in the next few weeks or month. i think it is important for us to hear from don mcgahn about obstruction of justice issues. and i'm hopeful in the next month that we get the president's tax returns. it is important to understand legitimate purpose for this. the president is on twitter bragging that he never paid taxes and that he avoided taxes. the reason we audit presidential tax returns, every president is audited, we're a nation of laws and want to know our elected leaders comply with the same laws that citizens comply with. congress has every right to figure out whether that's the case with this president. >> thank you for taking a few

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welcome back. we talked a lot about the importance in particular of african-american voters in next year's democratic primaries. about 25%, one out of every four votes cast in primaries will be from black voters and it is in one of those key early states, south carolina, a majority of the electorate and primary will be black. this is turning out to be early on at least a particular challenge for one candidate who has been experiencing a boom. pete buttigieg has been all over in the media, has moved up in polls. we're noticing a persistent pattern in polls when it comes to buttigieg. that's what i want to show you. this is last week's national poll from morning console. they do a weekly tracking pole. white voters, there's buttigieg getting 8%, good for fourth place. look at african-american voters in the same poll. you have to go further down. he was getting 1%. we have been seeing it in a lot

of national polls. buttigieg doing better with white voters than nonwhite voters, black voters in particular. now we're getting numbers from key states like south carolina. this is one that came out over the weekend. in south carolina, among white voters buttigieg is running second place behind biden, 18% among white voters. among black voters, more than 60% in the primary next year, look at this. you have to go down to find pete buttigieg, 0% in this poll among black voters in south carolina. 18% with white voters. something we have been seeing. how about this. a poll in virginia. buttigieg, 17% among white voters in virginia, among black voters, down there at 3%. there's the same pattern. how about this. how about a place where buttigieg is maybe better known than other places, how about indiana, his home state of indiana. poll out in indiana last week.

look at this, among white voters, joe biden, 32%, democratic voters, joe biden 32%, buttigieg second with 25%, among african-american voters in the poll in indiana, biden, 45%, buttigieg a zero in his home state. these are individual polls. the numbers can bounce around, but the pattern with buttigieg has been clear. he has had demographically deep but narrow appeal. white college educated higher income, self described liberals, that's been his sweet spot. the question for buttigieg is can he expand outside that particular challenge of particular urgency for african-american voters. something to keep an eye on. we'll be back with more on 2020 with special guests that don't usually get to be in the same place at the same time. stay with us. place at the same time stay with us they're america's biopharmaceutical researchers. pursuing life-changing cures in a country that fosters innovation

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you'll never hear me speak ill of a democrat in this process. the last thing we have to do is get in a fight among ourselves. the purpose is to make sure we don't have 8 years of a man who has done significant damage in my view to the united states of america. >> that was joe biden just this afternoon. joining me, four of our nbc news road warriors covering the 2020 race. mike member lee is following joe biden, and garrett hague, mike, let me start with you. we played joe biden coming in there. sort of a classic frontrunner demeanor, i don't want to say anything bad about my opponents, hint hint, hope they don't say anything bad about me back. with biden, it seems to clearly reflect a strategy here, we have seen emphasis in polling, democrats are placing on the question of electability if they see biden as the most electable

option, he wants them to see any attack on him as taking away from the effort to knock off trump, it sounds like. >> reporter: that's right, steve. we heard joe biden acknowledging some of the attacks from democratic opponents. you remember last week there was a story about joe biden pursuing a middle of the road climate change policy approach, and he responded with a little edge in his voice saying that wasn't the case, he cited a politifact story showed he was a leader on climate change since early days in the senate. steve, this has been a slow build, soft launch for joe biden that's ending in new hampshire tomorrow. since the rally in pittsburgh where he kicked off candidacy, he has gone to early states, reading from a script, sort of tentative in terms of how he interacts with voters and reporters. and we're starting to see it unpack more. notice behind me, the teleprompter is back, he hasn't been using it on stage.

he is getting more comfortable with the stump speech, getting ready for a kickoff rally in philadelphia this weekend. they're working through some of kinks, getting him comfortable campaigning for himself after years of campaigning for other democrats. and keeping his eye on president trump. that's where you see him engaged the most, when the subject is president trump and he refers to abuse of power. >> we heard before joe biden got in the race, his record in the 1990s, '80s, '70s, all sorts of things, anita hill, crime bills, his style, the idea that that was dated, the idea that joe biden didn't fit into today's democratic party. here we are a couple weeks in, put up a south carolina poll, up 31 points to the nearest challenger. up nearly 40 points in almost every poll. saw it in new hampshire the other day. the other campaigns, i am curious, are you sensing they're surprised by what they've seen

from biden out of the gate and are you hearing from them that maybe there was a bit of a misreading of where the democratic party is these days? >> yes and no. i think when all of us are on the campaign trail, the thing you hear from voters is i want someone that's progressive, and he is not the fresh face they hoped for. from a campaign perspective, there was expectation when a former vice president of a popular president gets into the race, it will be a formidable opponent. i think when you look at things like the south carolina poll, the more interesting thing to look at is where is he pulling support from and who is suffering the most from him. so i think as campaigns are trying to parse it out, that's how they're going to begin to go after joe biden. but i think when he says he is not going against other democrats, that might be wishful thing from the reverse. elizabeth warren -- >> someone might take a shot of that. >> licking their chops, waiting to go after him. >> we're going to have debates

over multiple nights, not everybody is on the same stage, means not everybody can take the shot at joe biden, they're probably starting to tee up in their minds at least. josh, you have been covering buttigieg. we just put up the numbers there. we have been seeing it awhile. the mayor of south bend, mayor of a city of 100,000 and even in this conversation, in a way playing with house money. on the other hand, if he wants to get farther than high single digits, low double digits, he has to start to break out of the higher income. what does his campaign say about that? >> he is atuned to that as his key challenge and main thing he has to do if he is a candidate around next year. they're trying to build those bridges, start to pepper all remarks and public appearances with comments specific to mienl minorities and other groups he is trying to bring in, talks about pro-choice issues wherever he goes. so far they haven't at least as

far as early polling had a ton of success in expanding the coalition. i think we're going to continue to see him on the campaign trail finding different ways to show his appeal goes beyond that narrow contingency you described. >> and also, you followed beto o'rourke, and some said buttigieg a couple months ago when he was picking up steam, coming at o'rourke's expense. 2% in south carolina, we have seen that drop off elsewhere. is this just the difference of this time he has to run against 20 democrats, last year ran against ted cruz and every democrat could like him, now it is hard to stand out. >> that's part of it. easier to run against ted cruz against democrats that other democrats like. he doesn't have the implied contrast. he is another committed to not speaking ill of fellow democrats. if he can't make that contrast and it is not their forum, he will struggle. they're putting together the airplane in mid air. they have no staff anywhere when they launched. i was still the only -- iowa was

the only state with full fledged professional presidential campaign working. they're trying to put something like that online in south carolina, but weren't able to take advantage of the big bump he got out of the announcement. what i think the o'rourke campaign hopes is that everyone else has the same problem, mayor pete in the same situation, and each of the democrats have a moment whether or not they're able to capitalize on it is another story, and having this conversation six or seven months down the road, they're preparing for that battle. one of the first announcements of major staff was a delegate counter. they haven't announced a new hampshire state director yet. they're playing a long game. they have to have delegates to count to get there. >> last couple cycles, you had boom, bust cycles for individual candidates. 2012 i really remember that. mike, you were mentioning the debate before, june 26, 27. tell us what is the thinking

you're picking up on around biden folks in terms of importance they put into it, what they expect to be thrown at them. we were mentioning it here, everybody expects if elizabeth warren is on the same stage as biden, that's an if. she's going to do something. what are biden folks thinking of that? >> interesting, steve. i mention the big campaign kickoff he is doing in philadelphia saturday. they added a couple more events in days that follow, but otherwise we'll see joe biden largely go dark between that event and the debates because his team knows he is going to get it from all sides. not only is he going to be under attack from fellow rivals on the debate stage but has to get up to speed on what are some of the issues, what's the right terminology and language he needs to stay away from to use as he talks about some issues and progressive litmus tests. they're eager for joe biden, the thing i heard from him and advisers over and over again,

the party is not as far left as we in the media and we who follow twitter like to believe and think that it is. he is going to use that opportunity to plant himself firmly in the middle on electability and make sure he is flun fluent in terminology of the left so he doesn't do impeachable offenses. >> interesting, too, ali, a politico report over the weekend, the idea of, they were saying congressional black caucus members floating the idea of biden, kamala harris. >> democrats see they have these great options. how do you save them, parse through the primary battle before it gets ugly which inevitably it will. when you read something like that, kind of jives with what i heard, we would love the idea of a woman, we are comfortable with her as a vice president. and feels like there's a bit of that wreaking of where we're comfortable with women in power. if you're the kamala harris

campaign, you're probably not saying anything about this, you don't want to talk against the congressional black caucus, but i think it is percolating the sexist tilt there. >> are you picking up on that being reaction to perceived reasons why hillary clinton lost in 2016 and strategic declaration? >> i guess there's a knee jerk reaction, we tried a woman once and it didn't work. however unfair that might be, i think there's a little bit of that when you talk to voters who all they want to do is beat trump, they're skeptical if a woman that did it once and failed if only on the electoral college map could do it again. that's something that all four candidates have been dealing with in their own ways. >> have to cut it short. i have 25 other questions written down. thank you all for being with us. a quick programming note for you. 9:00 p.m. eastern, just talking about him a second ago, beto o'rourke sits down with rachel maddow. check that out. up next, potential fight looming over roe vs wade, one

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just briar -- they overturned a case that had nothing to do with abortion. and breyer said today's decision can wonder what cases the court will overrule next. pete williams was at the court for the decision. he joins us now. pete, roe vs wade, not older than 41 years old. is that a direct reference to that? >> he mentioned the precedent in the dissent today. this is a dissent, court ruled 5-4, one state can't be sued in the courts of another state unless it gives its permission, this was a taxpayer lawsuit in nevada against california. he wrote for himself and three other liberals, said overturning long-standing precedent requires some special justification, yonl the filing that an earlier court

got it wrong. later judges may believe earlier appointed judges made a mistake, but said law can retain necessary stability only if the supreme court resists that temptation, and among cases he mentioned that deserved respect mentioned, the reserve respect as president as the supreme court's 1992 ruling, planned parenthood v casey which upheld the fundamental right to an abortion which was first stated in roe. he also mentioned a patent case four years ago. here is i think a key quote from breyer's dissent. he said the people of this nation rely upon stability in the law. legal stability allows lawyers to give clients sound advice, and maybe this is the key phrase, "and allows ordinary citizens to plan their lives," steve. >> we talked about this potentially intersectioning with the 2020 campaign. do you have a sense when we're next likely to hear from the court on the issue of abortion in terms of a significant ruling? >> so we're waiting to see if

they'll take a case from indiana. a law that was signed by governor mike pence that says you can't have an abortion if you fear that the child may have downs syndrome, and it also has something to do with how fetal remains have to be disposed of. and then the supreme court will probably take a case from louisiana that passed a law very similar to texas that said abortion doctors have to have special arrangements with nearby hospitals. but in a sense, those are sort of the old school challenges to abortion to sort of restrict access. these latest cases basically are a head-on challenge to roe itself. >> pete williams, thank you for taking a few minutes. i appreciate that. next, we are going to dive into what the uncertain future of roe v. wade could mean for 2020. right after this break. right after this break when you rent from national... it's kind of like playing your own version of best ball. because here, you can choose any car in the aisle, even if it's a better car class than the one you reserved.

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this right wing attack, far right wing attack on women's rights and women's freedoms, their ability to make their own decisions about their own body is unacceptable in the united states of america. >> when young women, girls, really, killed themselves rather than face an unplanned pregnancy, we are not going back. not now, not ever. >> time now for "the lid." the supreme court. the issue of abortion poised to become a key issue in 2020. ben, susan and rashad are back

with me. susan, one thing i always think about this issue and we talk about the politics of it, the polling on this is very hard to pin down. i was looking before the show. i could find a poll if you were on the can point to and say hey, north america is with me. on the opposite side the sacket same thing with. people seem to have often within themselves conflicting attitudes on this. i wonder the question then of which side ultimately politically, is there one side that it matters more to? >> i think what you see is it is conflicting because when you hear 20 or 24 weeks as a potential cutoff for abortion as an issue, that's really five or six months, which now because of medical technology, the fetus is viable at that point in its term. so people have a difficult time deciding what to do. and it is certainly a personal choice and one a woman should make, where i think politically it really comes into play is when it gets to the decision of the supreme court.

i think democrats were shocked. i think everyone was shocked to see the influence that trump had immediately on the supreme court of the united states of america, which isn't just choice, but coming up there is a lot of other issues that are going to be important. but with a couple of our justices aging, the fact that donald trump can put some more conservative folks and basically have the potential to eliminate roe v. wade, i think that will wake up and motive a lot more voters, especially when you look at how people responded to the kavanaugh hearings. >> that's interesting too. and rashad, i guess in terms of the politics of it, one group i wonder in terms of what susan is saying we talk about these urban voters who tend to be culturally moderate, more culturally liberal even. we saw them turn out in 2018. it feels like this might be an issue that keeps them in that posture in 2020. >> i think so. i think there was a way in which donald trump sort of presented himself as this big budget

hollywood movie with bombs, distractions and plot twists, and people didn't always believe he was kind of the conservative republican. he was a new yorker. he had had multiple marriages. he knew gay people. he had "the celebrity apprentice." as he has moved into some of this cultural warfare, i think it's really painting a bright light for people that this is a president who has cozied up with evangelicals and has moved a set of policies that have attacked women's health and reproductive rights. i do think as we've seen whether it's at the state issue, whether it's issues around the bathroom bill or issues around what's happened in georgia with this six-week issue, you know, with both of those issues and we see corporations and other folks sort of on the outside after the fact or as these bills are sort of moving to completion kind of speaking out and pushing back, but remain largely silent as voters were being suppressed in

the lead-up. and now we have political makeups in these states that are only going to rubber stamp these regressive policies. the question will be how do all of these folks that have enabled these policies to come to bear stand up as we move forward. >> i think the flipside of it politically that i think of too, ben, if there is the suburban voters who didn't like trump to begin with, maybe this being something that keeps them away from him, we look to it how donald trump has gotten ahold of this republican party politically there was a poll today. i saw it in new hampshire that is favorable rating with republicans there. 86%. this issue, what he has done with the courts in general, the supreme court a big part of that. >> a huge part of that, and a reason why evangelicals and some folks in those states will look the other way at a lot of the other stuff that trump says and does because they get the justices they want who rule the way they want them to rule. i think president trump has an issue on abortion here that is going the play well for him in 2020 that would get these people out in droves to vote for him, who really want to see the end of roe v. wade and change the

american approach to the issue of abortion. it is hard to say which way this is going to cut. because it is such a motivating issue on the left as well. i don't know the answer to that. but trump sees a wedge. >> that's right. the polling does not give you a lot of clarity. ben weiss, susan purse owe, rashad robinson. thank you for being with us tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more meet the press daily. yasmin, good evening. >> good evening, steve. i'm yasmin vass suingian. i'm going to talk to a democratic congressman telling trump's secretary hand over trump's tax returns or you could face jail time. and the stock market tanking as trump's trade war with china escalates. the dow dropping over 600 points, its biggest single-day fall sin january, a possible gut punch to the world economy that could weaken trump's political standing here at home. and tonight trump faces a crush of investigations and