the other thing is in the 2015, 88 years old. that does it for me. thanks for watching. 2016 campaign trail, donald ho "deadline: white house" with nicole wallace starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. and there's a new rallying cry public, he was self-made and for democrats running for president today. cared about average americans. the future of women's we know he was not a self-made man and we know by his policies reproductive freedom is facing that he doesn't care about its most significant legal bettering the lives of working assault in history. class and middle class the state of alabama moving to outlaw nearly all abortions in americans. joe biden is an authentically the state with the purpose of passing a law designed to put self-made person. he speaks to the needs of the working class americans and roe v. wade back up for debate speaks about it from his bones. by the united states supreme >> you have just landed on what i think is such an opportunity court. this may be the day women feared for democrats, for whomever the when they poured into the nominee is. streets following president trump's inauguration. the trump brand is the hoax. >> yes. this may be important for the >> i think democrats need to democratic primary contenders take back the hoax. >> he wasn't a scholarship kid. when the fight is more important than before. and may be the moment when >> trump is the hoax. >> biden can chip away at that independent and swing voters pay p. i'm skeptical about the two attention to the choice in the 2020 election. the danger in republicans and 70-year-old white guys facing

donald trump is clear but unl e off against one other. unlikely to slow them. chris, one of the words you used is comfortable. access to legal abortions in some circumstances is still an people want less drama, want to return to normalcy, so he can issue with 79% of the general public behind it. and donald trump can't win in have the rhetoric of hope and change and all that, and we know 2020 without some of the women who voted for him last time him and there is that comfort pulling the lever for him again. factor after the exhaustion of four years of donald trump. the 2020 democratic candidates came out forcefully today i think that's part of the appeal he would have both to against the alabama bill, here democrats and also to the kind are just a few of them. of swing voters in the midwest >> let us all agree that women's that these other guys would not health care is under attack and have. we will not stand for it. >> i have to sneak in a break. you're sticking around. i want to tell everyone what you're doing tomorrow night, a we will not stand for it. >> they're trying to overturn live event with pennsylvania voters tomorrow here on msnbc 7:00 p.m. eastern. we're going to keep this roe versus wade. that's wrong. discussion going on the other side of the break. we'll fight back. >> it's nothing short of an don't go anywhere. r side of the break. don't go anywhere. if you have moderate to severe psoriasis attack on women's basic human rights, civil rights, something women of america are going to have to fight against with everything they've got. our friend joyce vance underscores in today's

washington post that the alabama bill is just the beginning. she writes quote the nature of the bill is its points because its sponsors aren't just looking to prohibit abortion in alabama. they're looking for a vehicle to or psoriatic arthritis, take to the supreme court. they want to overturn roe v. little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. wade sub planting it. otezla is not an injection or a cream. and that is where we start today it's a pill that treats differently. with some of our favorite reporters and friends. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable, "the washington post" reporter ashley parker. with reduced redness, thickness, christina greer is a professor and scaliness of plaques. for psoriatic arthritis, otezla at fordham university. is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. and a former u.s. attorney, and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement joyce vance, the author of that for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. op-ed joins us. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. explain for our viewers what is in this alabama bill, joyce. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. >> this is a different bill. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression it's one that makes it illegal or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. for doctors to perform abortions at any time during a pregnancy. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. it doesn't criminalize the woman's conduct rather makes it upper respiratory tract infection

a felony for the doctor to and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines perform the abortion. >> take me through your argument and if you're pregnant or planning to be. that this isn't just a bill that ready to treat differently with a pill? would affect the criminal otezla. show more of you. exposure for any medical practitioner, make it a crime to provide that health care service for families, for women, talk about the goal's legal objective, which you outline in your piece that it is nothing short of bringing roe v. wade for relitigation by the u.s. supreme court. >> the house sponsor of this bill actually made the case for that herself, saying that the reason that the bill needed to move forward without any sort of an amendment that would protect victims of rape or incest was the issue of the personhood of the fetus could be presented to the supreme court, giving them an opportunity to reverse roe versus wade. ashley parker, donald trump has landed on three sides of the abortion question over the course of his public life. but as a candidate for president, he staked out some of the most extreme positions on

abortion saying to my colleague, chris matthews that he was for criticalizing abortion on the part of women, with a line in his state of the union this year that he managed to underscore in a way he doesn't usually manage to underscore any of his messages theeds these days. clearly he sees his future tied to the most severe abortion policies this country has seen ready to treat differently with a pill? in a long time. >> he does. you have 4.3 minutes this time,to yourself.rn. this is someone who about two this calls for a taste of cheesecake. decades ago was pro choice. then when he ran he was pro philadelphia cheesecake cups. life. rich, creamy cheesecake with real strawberries. you mentioned that interview with your colleague, chris matthews, and what was so find them with the refrigerated desserts. striking about that is this is a president who while he has staked out very hard, right conservative pro-life position sort of doesn't know the language of that movement and you should have heard the whenever he was pushed to engage conversation on the break. i need you to pick up though on and answer questions and follow-up questions kind of this conversation about biden. no joke, i think biden would say stumbled and blustered. it was as if he understood the top line of what his base wanted yes to being kamala harris' v.p.

to hear, what he needed to say >> i think he would. to win the support of but i think a lot of americans want this older white male at evangelical voters but he hasn't the top of the ticket. that's what they're accustomed spent his life marinating in to. those issues and couldn't talk >> democrats? >> democrats, too. about it in a clean, coherent keep in mind joe biden is way. selling a version of -- just a but you are right this is something he believes is a base turnout strategy. positive version of make america great again. he's selling an older version of something his voters care about. evangelical voters voted for him when times were great, when overwhelmingly and they were everyone was happy working at willing to overlook any number of other flaws about him, the factories. language he used, the fact he'd those versions don't often involve women and people of been married three times, some of his other behavior and color. attitude towards women because f of his views on life, the way he he does not have the dedication was going to stack the supreme court and now you have in there with the younger black americans because of his lack of influence this perfect storm of a court with anita hill. so these are things that will follow him in complicated ways. that is ready potential and take up a challenge and case and he's 76. i don't know if he has the same overturn roe v. wade. spark he once has. let's bring up one of the he's d still doing well on the senators looking to take him out stump. but the frustration thathad. the frustration that democrats of work. kirsten gillibrand joins us from

capitol hill. i've seen your comments and had. those voters left with jimmy followed your campaign trail carter, they're gone. long enough to know your views forget about them. of the bill. move on. but i'm curious to understand maybe we should hunt after the people who left after obama but what the -- this is such an maybe not. orchestrated attempt to there's tension between what should be the vision of the party f democrats feel they have relitigate roe v. wade, what to win possibly with an imperfect candidate, do we go does the counter effort look like to protect it? with kind of the politics of >> we have to shine a light on this affected by this draconian and demographics, or voters who have been disaffected but are and make no mistake, this is a financially strapped and would appeal to -- biden would appeal nationwide attack on women's to someone like them? reproductive freedom, on their basic civil rights and human rights. >> i think biden would like to over 29 states this year alone say he would like to do both. are attacking women's constitutional rights and we have to fight. >> privately, too. we have to fight now harder than >> is that possible, is my question? we have ever fought before. >> where we are in new york so i'm traveling to georgia tomorrow to talk about the law state, democratic party has been winning elections by balancing that is just passed there. to lift those voices up of the tickets, youish italian, irish women who are affected and make black, they pick it up.

sure that america understands that this is going to be a fight for something that is so important and personal to every it is a rainbow. woman that decision to make these kinds of life or death intimate decisions about our ideal sage age is 45, 55. families and our bodies. >> senator, how do you take this if biden wasn't around, kamala number, 79% of americans still harris might be the front-runner. bernie seems older than biden support abortions in some and represents a left-wing instances. and this law would really go culture which is fine. against overwhelming public unhyph support for access to abortions unhyphenated democrat. in the case of rape or incest, his voting record is pretty when the health of the mother is libera in question. how do you take that and protect yourself and the entire liberal. >> a lot of voters in places democratic field of candidates, like wisconsin who voted for from being painted as extreme on obama twice and then voted for this issue? donald trump. even if you get a percentage of an effort that the republicans them back, i think democrats spent a lot of time, energy, and will win, joe biden could wine i don't know if everyone understands how much money they spend trying to paint anyone wiscons wisconsin. it's not people you lost with who's for access for reproductive health services for

women as extremists. >> i think that's why we have to lift up the voices of the jimmy carter. >> kamala harris can get those millions of women who would be people back. >> that's the question. deeply affected by these bills, to criminalize abortions and providers, health care providers. the fact that over 70% of >> diverse not just in race but america is with us just shows occupation. that this is an all-out assault, >> dairy farmers, ones who vote for the record trump. >> they've been squeezed. an all-out attack by the >> they love him but hate the republican party to undermine trade policy. it's killing them. basic civil rights and roll back and undermine basic reproductive >> so far we haven't seen freedoms in this counted. erosion of support. that will be in play. it is something they are determined to turn back the there are social, other culture issues there and i do think that clock on. >> do you worry questions around biden has figured out a way to women's reproductive health sort of square the circle. services, access to abortion, has been put into this box of we don't know how he's going to being a woman's issue. last, how he's going to weather any family that's faced this all of that. predictment, often times there's a man at the table as well. how do you make the issue broader, american families? >> going back to the same thing >> we talk about the impact it

has on the lives of our family we've been talking about now for members, communities, and on months. to get to -- you go the best bet women in general. to beat trump. it's a health care issue, an economic issue but also a civil rights issue. the fact women aren't going to have permissions to make decisions about their own the more trump looks winnable, reproductive health, their own that's when biden looks good. bodies, families, something >> i'm going to put you on the spot on the other side of the that's untenable. break the psychologic al state f it's really egregious that members of country, president trump, these republican very democrats. al state o extreme legislatures around the democrats. and stay clearer. most patients who saw 90% clearer skin at 28 weeks country want to basically turn stayed clearer through 48 weeks. the clock back on women's tremfya® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections. reproductive freedom. i know one thing in the last before treatment, your doctor should check you for election in 2018, women's voices infections and tuberculosis. were heard. they ran for offices in record tell your doctor if you have an infection or have symptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, numbers and won in record muscle aches or cough. numbers and women's votes turned before starting tremfya® tell your doctor if you plan out in record numbers. so i hope women and their to or have recently received a vaccine. families and the men who love tremfya®. stay clearer. them are paying attention. janssen can help you explore cost support options. because what this president is doing is under mining and unexpected bathroom trips

you may have overactive bladder, or oab. criticalizing basic health care and under mining our rights to ohhhh... enough already! we need to see a doctor. make these decisions. the president has weighed in on the bill since i've been speaking. let me read you the white house ask your doctor about myrbetriq® (mirabegron). statement. it treats oab symptoms of urgency, frequency, and leakage. this is the white house statement on the alabama abortion bill. it's the first and only oab treatment in its class. unlike radical democrats who have cheered legislation myrbetriq may increase blood pressure. allowing a baby to be ripped tell your doctor right away if you have trouble from the mother's womb moments emptying your bladder or have a weak urine stream. myrbetriq may cause serious allergic reactions after birth, president trump is like swelling of the face, lips, throat or tongue, protecting our most innocent and or trouble breathing. vulnerable. defending the dignity of life if experienced, stop taking and tell your doctor right away. and called on congress to myrbetriq may interact with other medicines. prohibit late-term abortions. tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems. >> i count four lies. common side effects include increased blood pressure, how do you take on the common cold or flu symptoms, sinus irritation, dry mouth, urinary tract infection, bladder inflammation, back or joint pain, constipation, dizziness, and headache. distortion field with a mega phone the size of president need some help managing your oab symptoms along the way? trump's. >> he's lying to the american ask your doctor if myrbetriq is right for you, people about his intentions. and visit myrbetriq.com to learn more. he's always intended z to have radical justices on his court to undermine basic reproductive

freedoms and civil rights. i think the american people need to not only listen to his words but watch his deeds. he is someone who does not value women. he doesn't want to allow america's women to make decisions about their own families, bodies, health and well being. he's criminalizing doctors providing care with lifetime sentences in this alabama law. and make it impossible for women to seek the care they need and be able to meet the needs of their families. i'm going to lift this up, and as president of the united states i will not appoint any (vo) be the first to play justice who does not agree they console quality multi-player games on the go. support the precedent of roe v. wade or the judges. be first to real time with verizon 5g ultra wideband. that's the law of the land. i think gorsuch and cavanaugh get the new samsung galaxy s10 5g. like i said when they said they on verizon. would uphold precedent. if they go back on this statement they made during the confirmation hearings i think we should look towards what we will do to address it. because we need far more oversight and accountability

over these supreme court justices. if they lied in their hearings we should take action. >> let me push you a little bit on what you laid out. are you saying you're going to elevate this issue in light of this vote headed to the governor's desk in alabama, is this part of your candidacy. >> it is. i think women are smart enough to make decisions about their own health. and president trump doesn't. he doesn't value you or trust you. i hope every family in america hears what president trump's words are. he's lying about what these rights are. and his party are not trying to just literally turn back the clock in terms of criminalizing abortion rights but they're also trying to turn back the clock on access to contraception. we're turning the clock back decades under this president. so i hope america's women are we just put a poll, paying attention. i'm going to shine a light and

pennsylvania poll, democratic primary, biden, 53%, sanders, lift up the voices of the women affected by this draconian law not only in alabama but 29 50%, warren 47%, buttigieg, 45%. states that are aggressively trying to do an attack on women's reproductive health and freedom. >> thank you for spending time they all boat him. with us. >> senator harris or senator we hope you'll come back. >> i will. warren at top of the ticket, >> let me get back to you joyce this particular president cannot vance. it sounds like this is something that the white house is already deal with women. he literally shakes. seeking to depict as a he's not too great with women of projection. that this is clearly the most color especially if you see how he deals with journalists. extreme sort of state law to be crafted around abortion. the first words from the white we know already biden has a little bit of real estate in house, if i can read their truch's head. statement again, unlike radical unfortunately elizabeth warren had that misstep with the native democrats. i mean, the radical actor with american controversy. any objective analysis is the if kamala harris is the nominee or she is the nominee, no way propone proponent. the groups supporting this bill. that he can focus in a debate. >> donald trump seems determined can he not see women with to dig in on this issue and make equals.

abortion, which is also plenty how he talks about his own wife divisive in this country, the when she's sitting right there. most divisive issue possible these polls are somewhat artificial because i don't think with the most devivisive he has the discipline to understand how he needs to legislation in advance of the behave in a debate in front of 2020 election. i wondered why leaders in this millions of people if he's going country can't bring us together up against a woman. >> i agree that but getting in areas of agreement, by crushed in pennsylvania. the president sees those polls promoting pro-life policies like will call and scream or tweet against them. access to medical care, access to child care for women with >> he has to be worried about children. it seems like that's something wisconsin, michigan, that whole little belt of states that they would want to do as opposed tilted the 2016 in his favor to to this president keeping us because joe biden puts all of those in play. the issue in the end of this is as divided as possible. >> it's another issue that the who has a message that speaks to white house is banking on people those voters? we talked about this at the not understanding what's in the bill. break. democrats have traditionally it bans abortion at every stage been very bad of recent vintage of pregnancy. doctors face up to 99 years in prison for performing abortion. in the last couple of decades shall talking about bread and there is no exception for cases butter issues, average people, of rape or incest. health care, jobs, how to and the only exception is when deliver that. the mother's life is at risk. government is not a problem. this is where that 79% of the it's a vehicle that can get

voting public -- this is where those things to you if done in you lose a lot of them. the right way. >> i think trump was very smart most people support some regulation and limits, but they at threading the needle. he said i'm going to leave do not support a bill like this. social security alone, medicare >> right. and medicaid alone, because especially with rape and incest. that's what people need. that's where a lot of people i'm going to try to fight the come on board. trade war because your daughters here's what's so fascinating. and ones need to get a job this is the job that mike pence somewhere. >> get out of my basement. was sent to do. he's doing everything, making >> do some infrastructure and everyone fall in line and this is why it's so important for not fight any more stupid wars. people to understand who's in very smart. >> attack on health care, which their state legislature and the democrats should remind recognize that not every woman is for women's issues. voters. >> that's because it was the architect of this bill is a personal with him and obama. >> you can't build a wall over woman. when we are asking women to run we want to be clear, we want pro miscellaneous links. the devil is in the details with choice women to run in some of his party. these state house legislations. >> i think we have a winning we saw the republican men, all gang here. will you all come back? 25 white men who made the >> can i talk about my thing tomorrow? >> of course. >> we'll be in wilkes-barre, decision, it's frightening because we see it in georgia, ohio, alabama, and slowly but speaking to real people, teachers, women and men, we'll surely when you have minor ask them a simple question what caveats, six week abortion bans, happened here? we missed it. most women who have experienced we're the smart guys.

what happened in 2016? a menstrual cycle know if you're what's going to happen in 2020? and what are the issues and what pregnant you probably won't know are the attitudes? a lot of it is stop looking down at six weeks. we're not having sex ed in on us. >> we'll all be watching. that does it for us. schools we're pulling back on thank you for joining us. contraception. thank you for watching. we're not providing any sort of am. tp daily starts now. education. and then you're taking away the hi, chuck, i'm sorry i'm late. opportunity for a woman to make a choice. >> i love chris, but we're all it's a push back on this pro real people, too. >> i know. >> i'm teasing. life, pro choice dichotomy. >> other real people. >> prove it. >> we're not robots. because it's pro-choice or i swear to god. anti-choice. we're talking about whether the let me check. government is going to allow a beep boop beep boop boop. woman to make a decision for the never mind. if it's wednesday, it's a rest of her life. you're saying a woman cannot make her own decision but i'm going to make you have a child with no health care, failing public schools, no safety net, decreasing jobs. with the republicans leading americans by the wayside. however i'm going to make you have a child and then i'm done with it. the heartbeat starts at the moment of inception. so does that mean tongue in

cheek someone wrote about it, does that mean i can collect child support from someone at six weeks? does that mean i can register this person to vote? if you want to make it this draconian let's walk it down the road together. that's not what republicans want. they want to control women's body and use other women to help draft legislation to do that. >> ashley parker, your analysis came true two minutes after it came out of your mouth. i want to go back to the president's lack of fluency in the issues. in the late '90s he didn't express any problem with partial birth abortions but his language now seems to be a dramatic and flagrant distortion, there's nothing close to happening like what he describes in his rallies. let's watch and talk about it. >> democrats are aggressively

pushing late term abortions, allowing children to be pushed from their mother's womb, right up until the moment of birth. then you have this governor in virginia, you saw that, the baby is born, and you wrap the baby beautifully and you talk to the mother about the possible execution of the baby. candidate can't do that. >> there are countries where someone other than its leaders would go to jail for lying like that. this isn't one of them, at least for now. those package of lies, that fiction, that smear, has behind it an entire west wing staff that knew what he was going to say, saw what he said, and never came out afterward and cleaned up any of those brazen lies. is this what we're in for as the election heats up? >> the president is not speaking about abortion with any real

fluidity or clarity or nuance. even in that if you were to fact check it, there's a lot of problematic things in the clip you just played. but the top line remains, this is a president who if you take into account what he says, he claims to have a true 180 on this. the president has these friends, a guy jim that goes to paris a lot to help him make decisions, and the president attributes his switch on this issue to an unnamed friend who ended upkeeping the baby. so even if he comes to it earnestly and you take his word, he understands at his core, this is a political issue. this is why he chose vice president pence to be his vice president. because the vice president can speak this language to evangelicals to his base, to the pro life side in a way that the president can't. there's a number of people in the administration who hold these views for far longer and far more deeply than the

president has. again, he believes it's -- as much as it is also people on both sides of the debate say a moral issue, a civil rights, reproductive rights issue, it is at its core a political issue for 2020. and you are going to see the president message it in that way as a basic turnout strategy. >> we're going to keep an eye on it. ashley parker, thank you for spending time with us. after the break, the white house escalating its war with congress and said it will stone wall any effort to investigator the president. and the president's biden fixation seems to be working out great for joe biden. all those stories coming up. to a single defining moment...

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the white house sending a 12-page letter to house judiciary chairman, jerry nadler today demanding the committee put an end to its investigation into the president's potential obstruction of justice, public corruption and abuse of power. writing, quote, congressional investigations are intended to obtain information to aid in evaluating potential legislation not to harass opponents or pursue an unauthorized do over of exhaustive investigations. jerry nadler not taking it lightly. >> the fact of the matter is whether they did an investigation or not, whether that investigation was completed or not is irrelevant to the congressional power to investigate the white house or

anybody else. taking that position a president can't be indicted, they're saying congress can't now, and they're saying nobody can now and the president is above the law, and that's an un-american claim. i don't know if they're trying to taunt us toward impeachment or anything else. all i know is that they have made a preposterous claim. joining our conversation ti ti tim o'brien and charlie sykess. >> tim, i have to start with you. they are staking out such preposterous positions we do not know at all, it is less clear than it has been since the day bob mueller announced he was done what the intention was for mueller's findings but it would appear there is at least a possibility that leaving the obstruction of justice investigation unanswered, saying i do not exonerate the president and if i could say that no

crimes were committed, i would, that there is a possibility here now that the white house counsel has staked out a position that could turn out to be at odds with robert mueller's. >> white house counsel's position is this expansive imperial presidency that can't be checked by anyone in the executive branch, the justice department can't investigate or prosecute. certainly not indict. and at the same time, a legislative branch that the white house says can't look over the president's shoulder. so we essentially have an executive that can do whatever he wants to. there's no limit on corruption or abuse of power. it's an inexplicable point of view and conflicts with mueller. if you read the report clearly like we have, says i can't exonerate this president. if i could, i would, but i can't so congress do your job.

>> timo'brien, it's the step you take -- it's like putting the 2-year-old in a padded room. it's what you do if you don't want anyone seeing what's going on in donald trump's west wing. >> the trumps themselves don't want this information out. why is that? because i believe there's going to be at a minimum financially embarrassing things that bring us back to this old saw horse of conflicts of interest, and the president corrupt or compromised by that. you have the white house counsel and attorney general surrounding him because i think he's stronger -- >> how are they going to like that when there's a democratic president? >> they're not. but bill barr has been on that for decades. he was on that train long before he hooked up with trump. they're seeing a certain efficiency that an executive can

take action and turn agendas around. but i don't think that's how the framers envisioned the branchs working together and americans shouldn't be comfortable with it working that way. but we're headed to a con phonation of those issues. other than trying to cover up crimes committed by donald trump and corruption that the family and the cabinet have brought to washington, what is the explanation when you have rod rosenstein offering to wear a wire -- the president was so alarming to him he wanted to wear a wire and he whipped votes for a 25th amendment. you have anonpus writing in the "new york times" and a white house that leaks like a leaky sieve. the way we learn about his conduct is because the people who see the very things that the white house counsel are trying

to save from congress going are alarmed. >> we're seeing there is no bottom here. there's two things. number one the trump administration's claims in court were described by the federal judge as astonishing. says that the president of the united states cannot be indicted but he also cannot be investigated by congress, which does as congressman nadler says makes him above the law. but the republicans, the way they were going to circle the wagons around trump and trump junior, saying not only do we not want to investigate what was an obstruction of justice and attack on this country, ongoing attack on this country, we do not even want to ask questions. we don't want to know anything about it and we don't care that we have been lied to. there's a certain numbing effect that republicans are going to support their president and they don't want to rock the boat. but the degree and the extent to which they are willing to become part of this is astonishing. >> i don't want to skip over this, because it's such an

important point. they are basically accomplices now to what is known potential criminal conduct in the instruction probe and known coordination, although it wasn't found to be a criminal conspiracy, but known coordination between the aims of the trump candidacy and the putin regime. what do you make of the fact that they tried to smear richard burr. this was the mob family in action. richard burr, chairman of the senate intel committee winning ultimately a subpoena fight for donald trump jr. to come and testify, but it was ugly. >> that's why so many are so unwilling to speak out about it. right. this is why -- because what happens is the trolls and the flying monkeys are unleashed -- >> twitter followers. >> -- are unleashed against you. you have the prospect of a primary challenge. we've seen this dynamic.

again, they don't have to do this, this is the other thing. they would argue well, we like the conservative judges. we like gorsuch, kavanaugh. but does that mean you have to run interference for obstruction of justice, does that mean you don't want to find out what we've learned around the russian attack on this country? does that mean that you're going to go to the president's bidding when it comes to his own personal -- potential personal corruption of the president? why don't they stick to the issues they claim to care about? this is where we are, 2019. >> my twitter followers are lovely, as are yours i'm talking about the other people that attack us on twitter. what does this look like for democrats, it's not fair that the republicans do nothing and they don't have a partner in the republican party but it's the truth. the democrats in congress are all that stands between a corrupt white house and the american public.

do they have the fortitude? do they have the tools to hold them to account? >> this is what we'll see. as someone who studied what the framers intended, george washington's farewell draaddres warned us of this moment. we remember the obama days when republicans said we won't work with him for whatever reason. now they're empowered they're not willing to work with democrats either. we're in the middle of a smash and grab presidency. the republicans realize they have two years or possibly six but if the president is mobbed up and stealing, why not? you would be a fool to not grab whatever policy position or whatever it is that you're interested in at this time. the democrats have never been great on offense and are a little weak on defense, and are

still playing by the old rules -- >> that's why they're still on defense. >> this is how we respect the three branchs of government. the problem is the president doesn't respect the office of presidency, neither does the party. they're not respecting their own offices as legislature or the presidenc presiden presidency. the democrats need to maintain the integrity of the constitution but also realize they have to play a different ball game with this president and republican party that no longer plays by civility and decency. >> this is what i've been trying to skauk squawk about for two years. i wonder if you can sort of take your frame and your analysis around the obliteration of norms

around law enforcement, the assault of christopher wray that didn't get any attention. he's really the third person to run the fbi, the third person to come under assault verbally from this president, attacked. what do you make of the asymmetry of the way donald trump does his job and the burden it places on democrats. >> as i was listening to christina, i was reflecting she had gotten it just right. this is the central problem the country now faces. what do you do when you have a system fuelled by expected norms and rules of fair play and one side quits playing fair and they're going along down this treacherous path where the president doesn't hesitate to call out law enforcement leaders. even members of his own party when they stray too far from the fold and mob-boss like does whatever he needs to do to keep people in his herd. it reminds me of this way we

talk about rule of law as lawyers and legal scholars and think about the analogy to a card game that's played in multiple hands. if you're so focussed on winning one hand you're willing to destroy the entire game over it, at the end of that hand of cards there's no game left. that's what trump is doing to our democracy. democrats have this difficult path. they have to both win this hand and preserve the game. and increasingly that looks like an incredibly difficult task. >> you all prove the theory of this show every day. i sit down bewildered, overwhelmed, overloaded by the days news. you all make sense of it. joyce chance thank you for doing that every time you spend time with us. after the break, we're not at the first debate and already people are talking about kamala harris as a vice president. you want to see how she answers that question next. stay with us. e answers that question next stay with us

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are you sick of all the talk

of how you'd be the perfect running mate? >> listen, i think if people want to speculate about running mates, i encourage that because i think joe biden would be a great running mate. as vice president he's proven he knows how to do the job. and there are a lot of people that would be a viable vice president. >> she's just getting better and better. kamala harris turning the tables. sure she says, joe biden can be my vp, he was good at it. his lead over the field holds for now. kamala harris and others are on their way to busting down the top tier candidates. but there's one thing joe biden has that the others don't, president trump's watchful eye.

he's been tweeting about the president, and it's not going well in the white house. "new york times" reporting, mr. trump's attacks on mr. bide den have defied the pleadings of his own aides. chris matthews host of "hardball" is joining us here. these stories that anyone in the west wing complains, they don't try to get him to do anything -- >> i talked to someone on the train coming up here who said we can't stop him. that's what he does. you and i and you guys too know the history. look what linden johnson did to richard nixon in '68. he made him the nominee attacking him. it's what you do, name the front runner yourself. he's giving joe biden a few more months of honey moon. >> why is biden someone he can't ignore. >> because of where we're going

tomorrow night, wilkes bury, erie, parts of the country who are blue collar, who have had it with the party, it's elitist, don't talk about jobs. they want social security, medicaid for their long term care and a job for their kids, daughters and sons to live somewhere within driving distance. they're not greedy left wing angry types. they want to live regular lives, want their kids to live regular lives like them. that's what they want. and biden seems like that. >> biden also speaks the language of economic dispair. i think they can all do it. i'm not saying this is a message exclusively available to biden. it's innate to biden. he went to pittsburgh and said the stock market is roaring. he acknowledged some of the economic reality and said to the room, do any of you feel it?

>> steelworkers. but also on saturday, coming up the 18th, he's going to the rocky steps, the essential blue collar guy from south philly, italian stallion, never got his shot, finally gets his shot at the title, that's the working class dream of the guy in philly. biden seems like a guy, he said i wasn't part of the '60s, a bernie guy yelling at the administration building, i was wearing a sports coat trying to get the convertible. he wanted the girl, he was a normal guy. he goes to church on sundays. you know, i find it -- to say jill doesn't go anymore. they're very angry at the catholic church and maybe a lot of things because of the family tragedies but there's something human about the bidens with all their tragedies. comfortable. and i think the thing about having a running mate we know

the reality of the democratic party, the minorities are going to be on the ticket. there has to be, top or bottom. probably a woman has to be on the ticket, probably both. it's the mathematics. if someone talks the answer is he and kamala. she's a first rate candidate she's not going to settle for second. but when the time comes, she'll make the decision, he'll make the decision. if she has the opportunity to be vice president of the united states, what is she 45 or something, who would turn it down with her age, ability, academic ability, people take the job, george bush took it, linden johnson took it, joe biden took it. >> to her point, kamala harris' point, i think joe biden would take it again. >> is it legal? i don't know if it's legal. >> i don't know. it's times of trump, everything is legal. the idea that we're talking about this i think speaks a little bit to the hunger, the hunger to field a formidable

ticket. >> and someone who can speak about folks as opposed to to division and anger. pitions.n can give a great sub