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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  May 20, 2019 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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>> nothing happened. >> now you tell us to wait for the next election. >> really? >> really? >> really? >> it's not jerry seinfeld but it is tom steyer and he is on "the beat" tomorrow. tune in tomorrow. that does it for me. "hardball" starts now. trump's moscow problem. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. a trio of stories all considering the president. one, michael cohen, we're learning, told congress behind closed doors this year, that he was told to make false claims to congress on his 2017 testimony. according to transcripts out tonight, he said he was urged to save trump's negotiations had ended before the trump
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presidential campaign began. and trump's team dangled the possibility of a pardon if cohen continued to cooperate with them. two, a federal judge ruled late today that trump's financial records must be turned over to congress. well, that's a big one. finally, president trump told his former white house lawyer, don mcgahn, to defy a congressional subpoena and not show up to tomorrow's scheduled hearing. we begin with michael cohen. and the explosive revelations from his closed door testimony to the house intelligence committee early this year. the committee voted tonight to release transcripts of that testimony which have now been made public. as the "washington post" reports, cohen told the committee he had been instructed by trump lawyer jay sekulow to say the effort to build a trump tower in moscow end in the 2016. cohen later pled guilty to making those statements about the negotiations which extended well into trump's 2016 campaign. according to the report, he said sekulow told him it would be
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important to use january 31, 2016, as the date when discussions about the moscow project ended. sekulow told cohen that the date was significant because it came before the february 1st iowa caucuses. it shows with cohen suggested whether you reviewed the testimony and approved it, he said that was my understanding. that he had seen the statements. in other words, the president might have known that cohen was about to lie to congress. trump attorneyaccusations. he said that this or any committee would rely on the word of michael cohen for any purpose defies logic, well established law and common sense. for more, i'm joined by peter baker, white house corn for the "new york times," the former assistant attorney in the southern district of, no, and ken dilanian. we now know on the record what was said behind the scenes.
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>> it's important to pointed out that he knew they were lying. what he's saying in many cases, people gave him false information. that he knew to be false and he repeated that before congress. and in some cases, like in the case of ivanka trump and her lawyer, they should have known. they told cohen to say that ivanka trump had no involvement in the trump tower moscow deal when he knew he had briefed, michael cohen had briefed her many times. but it is pretty slick. they were all very careful. that's why no one was charged. >> the president was asked about it. he would say i have no business with what's going on in russia. >> this was a fraud. >> his lawyer, to our knowledge, he said the president had opened all of that business. >> when he said that to congress, trump knew it was not true and he knew it was a fraud on the voter. he was running saying i had no business with russia.
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he had a deal about needed putin's approval. >> your thoughts about this. >> what is most telling and what was released today are the exhibits that you probably haven't had time to wade through. but it shows very clearly that abby lowell in particular and jay sekulow secondarily knew what they were doing and they wanted to make it very clear that they were going to distance kushner and ivanka and junior from any engagement in the trump tower moscow deal. and i think it was in questioning of mr. cohen, how many times did you talk to mr. sekulow? 15 times. there was no question that sekulow was in fact aware of, and framing the testimony.
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>> what about sekulow teasing, apparently through implication the possibility that cohen could stay, if he stayed on the trump team, he did not give up anything big. he was just pardoned. >> so there is a lot of code in the way they talk and they would say things like, the president really loves you. stay on message. stay on message. he really loves what you're doing. so this was all code for keep lying and you will be pardoned. that's how you would interpret all of that. >> let me go to peter baker on this. given your news, how does this fit into the ongoing story? the president says the case is closed. that's the language of mitch mcconnell. the president says this is all over. he won't let anybody testify. what does this do? >> it is a great question. you do presume robert mueller knew this. he did not pursue any criminal charges against any of president
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trump's lawyers for trying to influence or shape michael cohen's testimony. we have to remember he's pleaded guilty to serve time in part for lying to congress. so he is as sekulow's lawyers point out, a problematic witness by himself. the question there s there anything else that would illuminate this. he knew about it, as ken just said. where he knew it was true or not. whether he was being fed misinformation. i remember last year, when we reported about that trump tower meeting in 2016 involving the russians, and we reported the president had shaped the misleading statement, jay sekulow went on to say, that's not true. of course, it was true as mueller's report shows. the question is whether or not he was fed misinformation or passing along things to others that are not true. >> what's going on here? we're learning through a glass
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darkly. trump has three things on his mind. he wants to make millions of dollars for himself and his family in a moscow building, some huge project. maybe his bombshell. his career. at the same time he's running for president. and at the same time, he's trying to build some new relationship with putin, the guy who is cutting the deal with him for the moscow tower. >> that's correct. >> in terms of whether or not you want to trust michael cohen, look at the exhibits. look at the emails that were exchanged by abby lowell and jay sekulow. and it becomes very clear what they were doing. they have been manipulating the information to try to create a narrative, support that the president was not engaged in the moscow, trump tower project throughout the campaign cycle. he didn't expect to win. he was already framing his next venture. so all of this makes sense in
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the scheme of things. >> it seems to me that the reason i keep talking about over the past months about, the charges, everything here is done by indirection and through people. through cutouts. the president says, allows some information to reach sekulow. i don't know if he ever talked honestly. he puts the word out what to say. therefore, the president is protected from lying. he gets his lawyer. everybody thought michael cohen was the president's lawyer. when he was speaking, we thought he was speaking for the president. now it turns out he was hearing from sekulow all the hedged language. promises of pardon and everything. somehow the president is always ings-related like a mob boss. >> the question about why this hasn't been charged yet. it is true, mueller refers to this in his report. he also very clearly says that basically, he is not going down the road of interviewing
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attorneys. he did the same thing with michael flynn. he did not try to pierce that. many prosecutors would take a different tact and certainly congress could. it certainly does seem like there is a good case to be made for the crime fraud exception. a very strong well established exception. if you do that, we might get more to the bottom of really what the different communications were. and you're right. someone shouldn't be able to insulate them just themselves, just by using cut-outs. especially by using attorneys. that's an old mob tactic. we have to really scrutinize that and make sure we don't let people get away with things just because they're using their lawyers. >> we know that trump makes people lie. stupid stuff like crowd sizes. what their eyes told them was not true. telling him to keep quiet, we'll
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give him something and make it look sweet. >> and she put her finger on something very important. attorney-client privilege loomed large. congress does not recognize attorney client privilege in their investigation. they may well haul them before a committee and make them fwef what happened under oath and get documents. will that mean they go to jail? no. but if in fact they encourage people to lie, they knowingly cause people to lie, that will be exposed to the public and that's the idea. >> the blanket strategy got a big major legal blow. a it's a federal judge ruled to uphold a house, oversight committee subpoena for president trump's financial records from accounting firm. they tried on block that, saying it had no legislative function. the d.c. sirt court judge argued the opposite writing congress plainly views itself as having sweeping authority to investigate illegal conduct of a president before and after
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taking office. this court is not prepared to roll back the tide of history. what a judge. president trump responded late today. >> we disagree with that ruling. it's crazy. you look at it. this never happened to any other president. they're trying to get a redo. as far as the financials are concerned, we think it is totally the wrong decision by obviously an obama appointed judge. he was a recent obama appointed judge. >> well, there's president discrediting the judiciary again. congresswoman, what will be in these financials? will it include tax returns? >> i would think that it would include tax returns. but the financial statements that you might recall that michael cohen was showing in which he would inflate them, when he wanted to appear that he had a lot of he can witness so co-guy buffalo bills and then deflate them for insurance purposes, all of that, turns out
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to be fraud. in his testimony, he talks that insurance fraud that the president was engaged in as well. all of this is subject to our review. no one in this country is above the law. and i think we need to start talking about what is becoming a lawless presidency. >> that's a strong thing to say. the president and his republican group around him which protect him at every moment says case closed. where is this story going if the president has the party behind him at every turn? >> that's the real problem. are there any revolutions that could come forward? is there anything that could be revealed, that would change the minds of a republican? the voters and republican lawmakers. if not, then the impeachment
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ends up standing. she says there's no point going forward, he's not worth it, unless you have such overwhelming evidence, potentially at least, among republicans because you need it in the senate to convict. so far we haven't seen anything like that. the congressman from michigan became the first republican to call for impeachment. that is a change but he is one member of the house and we haven't seen anybody in the senate say that. so the real question is, can these revelations, anything that could come out and change people's minds? people are pretty locked if in this country. so it would have to be something pretty extraordinary. >> i agree with you. i'm looking at the numbers. trump gets the same number against every democrat except biden, holding strong. do you think you're getting toward the prosecution? >> we've got to stop talking about this whole issue of impeachment like it is a political question.
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it is a constitutional question now. and it is incumbent on all of us to recognize that anyone who violates the law is subject to the law. and i think the michael cohen transcript will help us in that regard. i think the fact that once we get access to the financial documents, that will help us. the emoluments issue is an outstanding issue that has yet to be addressed. this is not a decision based on the poes. the american people expect us to read the mueller report. expect us to do the fine reading of all of the documents and the accounting. but not for the american people to do that. so i'm tired of looking at polls. i want to do what's right by the american people by making sure everyone has to come my with the laws. >> when should the people, specially progressive wing, up on the house, when should they give up on it? it is not happening now and you haven't even resolved to begin
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hearings on it. >> i think what will probably happen, from my perspective is, that the articles of impeachment will begin the process. that the inquiry will begin. we will lay that out. that's the only way i think we'll actually get the documents that we're seeking. and then we will give to the american people the opportunity to try the president and determine whether he should be convicted or not at the election come next november. >> thank you so much. coming up, another major story. the white house directing former counsel don mcgahn to ignore a congressional subpoena. why president trump says he won't allow to it happen and what congress can do if anything to get this white house to comply with any kind of oversight. and the road to the white house goes through pennsylvania. we were in wilkesbury last week. right now president trump is a little further west getting ready to disembark. his campaign is seeing troubling
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signs the state that was so critical to his victory in 2016 could be slipping away. at least to some democrats. much more ahead. stay with us. ocrats much more ahead. stay with us of once-weekly ozempic®. in a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than seven and maintained it. oh! under seven? and you may lose weight. in the same one-year study, adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. oh! up to 12 pounds? a two-year study showed that ozempic® does not increase the risk of major cardiovascular events like heart attack, stroke, or death. oh! no increased risk? ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪ ozempic® should not be the first medicine for treating diabetes, or for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. do not share needles or pens. don't reuse needles. do not take ozempic® if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to ozempic®.
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president trump continued stone walling congress today, ordering don mcgahn to defy a subpoena and skip a hearing for tomorrow. it said congress may not constitutionally come that he the president's senior advisers to testify about their official duties. and mr. mcgahn is absolutely immune from compelled congressional testimony. mcgahn's own lawyer confirmed he will not show up tomorrow for the congressional hearing.
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>> as i understand it, they're doing it for the office of future presidents. i think it is a very important precedent. the attorneys say they're not doing that for me. they're doing it for the office of the president. >> notice how he's laughing? it comes as the first republican congressman calls president trump's conduct impeachable. today he is holding firm in the face of a blow back. he argued contrary to barr's important trail, mueller's report reveals that president trump engaged in specific actions and a pattern of behavior that meets the threshold for impeachment. president trump fired back saying he was never a phaneuf justin amash. a total light weight. adding just as the loser who sadly plays right into our
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hands. the author of the case for impeaching trump and the editor-in-chief of the bulwark. this is the primary, to me, figure in the case. he was told to fire mueller. he would be a great star witness. trump has just put his finger in the eye of congress and say you're not going to hear from your star witness. live with it. it is nervily. >> the one thing he's mostly afraid of is a reality tv that comes back to bite him. the american people saw don mcgahn testifying that the president ordered him to engage in obstruction of justice. to ever could up the investigation, stop the investigation, fire mueller, all of that stuff.
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we're seeing cover up in capital letters. it is shocking and horrifying. if we go back to watergate, we didn't have this going on john dean gave critical testimony that the president had paid hush money. he told the president about his conversations. he paid hush money. dangled pardons of his top aides testified. we're going to a system where the president can stop people from testifying, particularly when we're talking about potential criminal activity, potential violations of the constitution and abuse of power. all of those are implicated in
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donald trump's behavior and it is outrageous for him to cover this up from the american people. >> i watched elizabeth and the others in the house judiciary committee way back when. i'm struck by the other possibilities. this would be like nixon when he is ordered to turn over the june 23rd tape saying burn the tape now. here's trump, when everybody knows the role that don mcgahn played, if you believe all the testimony, that he was in fact obstructing justice at the president's direction. to fire mueller of when it is in the mueller report way up front. arrest we all know about it like we knew about the nixon tape, then he says, i won't let you flare this guy. i'm going tory him gagged. i think whether it was the impeachment proceedings, that has to be frustrating to the go slow folks. i don't think they have any choice.
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the house democrats are going to have to begin those impeachment proceedings. and i have to say they have to acknowledge that they are losing the messaging war. i am somewhat flabber gasted at their failure to follow up on the mueller report. you've seen the attorney general to threaten to investigators. but at this point this is the cover-up. they are completely stone walling strategy. and it is a fundamental act of contempt for congress democrats have to think about political terms and need to understand the constitutional obligation and the stakes here if they do not open these proceedings. the president is basically saying -- >> i'm going to ask the congresswoman. when is the point of no return? when you cannot say the public,
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all they want to do is get the state democrat. if there is any danger to the house members, we can't do it. not everybody thinks like a politician. they think like voters and citizens. when are the voters of the democratic party saying, excuse me. stop being so tactical, we want prosecution of this president. do you expect mueller to do it for you? he was the investigator. it is the job of the house of representatives to prosecute him. >> if you go back to watergate and the house judiciary committee, we didn't take a poll. . the president fired special prosecutor and the american people that enough is enough. we're not a banana republic and congress, you have to do something about it. because a president can't decide who will investigate him and who will prosecute him. that's it. we started. we didn't take poes. we didn't know how many members
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of the committee would support impeachment. we didn't know what the numbers would be in the senate. we did it because it was right thing to do and you don't know how it will turn out. if you do it in the right way, you do it in a fair way, an honorable way, you get solid evidence, you try to bring they will support if it is fair and based on solid evidence. >> we're working on it. someone called the comments krangs but disagreed with it. he is playing very cute. watch him. >> he has reached a different conclusion than i have. i respect him. i believe you don't have the
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evidence for this document. and i believe an impeachment call is not only something that relates to the wall but considers practicality and politics. the american people aren't there. i think those considering impeachment would have to look at the jury. which is the senate. the senate is not there either. >> he looks like the leader of the country even though he didn't make it. yet when it comes to the final statement, he says i don't agree with amash. i respect him but i don't agree with him about obstruction. >> he's courageous. >> his capacity to disappoint, to be reminded of all that. one thing to keep in mind, we've used watergate as a model. remember what republican does
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with the benghazi hearings and the way it changed the perception of hillary clinton. the kind of evidence they were able to pull out. the whole emails came out of that. the polls are not there. you may not move 20 or 30% but you can move two, three, four, five percent an points. i think the failure is to accept this conduct and normalize this conduct. so i don't think it is quite as toxic as i think some democrats fear they might be. >> i think they're afraid what happened to bill clinton. by the way, somebody has to tell me someday what the republicans established that hillary clinton did wrong as secretary of state regarding benghazi. i have never heard a declarative statement of what she did wrong. thank you. you are amazing. you are amazing.
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thank you for coming on. and charlie, thank you, as always. explosively reporting on concerns raised by anti-money laundering watch dogs at deutsche bank about accounts controlled by mr. donald trump and mr. jared kushner. could that be why the president is suing to stop his bank records from being turned over to congress? more cover up, more stone walling, more gagging. more "hardball" coming up after this.
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welcome back to "hardball." deutsche bank has emerged as a key focal point of multiple investigations of trump's finances as well as his business ties to russia. now an explosive new report. "the new york times" has reported that anti-money laundering special i haves at deutsche bank recommended in 2016 and 2017 that multiple transactions involving legal entities controlled by donald trump and his son-in-law, jared kushner, be reported to a federal financial crimes watch dog. according to the report, at least some of those transactions involve money flowing back and forwards with overseas entities and individuals. but they have lent billions, rejected the advice. the reports were never filed with the government. deutsche bank already has a reputation for laundering
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russian money and it is one of the few financial institutions that has been big to lend to trump since the late 1990s. this comes after deutsche bank was served with a large subpoena from the house and financial services committees. they're demanding all records related to trump's ties with any foreign individual individual or government. in reaction, the president sued his biggest lender, deutsche bank, in an attempt to stop it from complying with the subpoena. you know this story. what is the connection between a bank that's lucy goosy giving billions when nobody else will give him money and all the dirty laundering of money with the russians. >> let's start with a big fact here. that trump has borrowed billions and owes now at least $300 million to a foreign-owned bank. and that money comes from what is called the private side of the bank. which could be a fund that they set up. we don't know where those funds come in. we don't know if they're
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guaranteed or back stopped. i've talked to bankers who have said these are very unusual loans. there are probably some guarantees there but we don't know if there are and if so, who is guaranteeing. >> what do you mean by guarantee? >> if you take money out from a bank. sometimes you have to put up collateral. sometimes you have to put up a guarantee. >> you don't think he gave any guarantees, do you? >> well, i have bank here's say there would have to be guarantees. >> why did deutsche give him money? >> that's a good question. they take obvious. >> what is the quid pro quo? >> they take the obvious line that no one else did. we thought weighed good opportunity there. and he's paid back. his relationship with deutsche bank has gone up and down over the years. at the same time we don't know all the details and whether there are guarantees. he has 5552 llcs on his financial forms west don't know the details of that. he sow you look at this.
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and we argue about his tax returns. the tax returns are 5% of his financial picture. and now it turns out this story about dave enrich of the "new york times," that inside deutsche bank, at the ground level, people keep an eye out for shifty deals. file reports saying we see transactions here that look like they need more of a look from u.s. regulators. it is our job to report. they go up inside the bank and senior people say, no. >> okay. give me motive. why would the top people not want to act on what they see a shady business? >> because he's one of the best clients. because they're protecting someone. they have the discretion and these transactions are not evidence of wrongdoing of the but the whole system to prevent money laundering is based on banks first reporting what they smell as something funny. this is what happened with elliott spitzer.
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it triggered an investigation that led to him using prostit e prostitut prostitutes. this could all be on the up and up. but what's important is you have trump, all this money from deutsche bank going to trump, and jared kushner, and then the bank says, we won't share this information. >> let me run something by you. the money that he borrowed from deutsche bank, was it a pass through for the russians? >> we don't know. we don't know if this money is coming from somebody else. or as i said, guaranteed by somebody else. this is what may be some of the financial information that members of congress, well, they might not get it. if there are any attachments to the loans. >> you're a progressive. when will pelosi give up on this stance? >> what i want to see is, even
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if don mcgahn won't testify, there are so many people they should call up. they should call up felix who did the deal with trump. they should call on michael flynn. people in court that side. >> why aren't they doing it? >> i don't know why they're not holding any deals now. >> whether they do a form of impeachment or really hard nosed investigations. it has to move forward or it will die. anyway, you're the best. thanks. up next, the battle for the rust belt. now new polling shows democratic front-runner biden. it's not the rust belt. the good part of the country hoping to reverse the rust belt slight. back in a minute t slight back in a minute -♪ just like any other family ♪ the house, kids, they're living the dream ♪ ♪ and here comes the wacky new maid ♪
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. welcome back to "hardball." president trump is in northeastern pennsylvania trying to maintain a hold on one of those three states that helped propel him to victory. it is his 48th rally in pennsylvania since he first announced his candidacy in 2015. i can't hear. sources tell reuters that president trump will fully launch his re-election next month in florida and will follow it up with stops in other battleground states. the increased focus comes amidst reports that the trump campaign is seeing some troubling signs about the president's popularity and critical midwestern states. according to politico, president trump's campaign is trying to shore up his standing in those states where there is growing ang side. two sources said the trump campaign recently completed a
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17-state polling project that concluded the president trails joe biden in pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan. looking to take advantage of significant ties, joe biden officially launched his campaign in the heart of philadelphia saturday. pitching an old school patriotic centrist mention. >> the american people want the government to work. i don't think that's too much to ask. you know, i know some people in d.c. say it can't be done. well, let me tell them something. make sure they understand this. the country is sick of the division. they're sick of the fighting. they're sick of the childish behavior. there isn't a single person among you or anywhere in this country that could get away with that in their jobs. all they want is for their president, their senators, their representatives, to do their jobs. just do your job. >> the recent nationwide fox
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news poll shows biden with an 11-point lead over trump in a hypothetical match-up. and president trump has noticed. stay tuned after the break to see how he's dealing with the bad political news. you're watching "hardball." ws you're watching "hardball. you make time... when you can. but sometimes life gets in the way, and that stubborn fat just won't go away. coolsculpting takes you further. a non-surgical treatment that targets, freezes, and eliminates treated fat cells, for good. discuss coolsculpting with your doctor. some common side-effects include temporary numbness, discomfort, and swelling. don't imagine results, see them. coolsculpting, take yourself further. our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy! whoo-hoo! great-tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein and twenty-six vitamins and minerals. ensure, for strength and energy. and twenty-six vitamins and minerals. staining be done... behr presents: outdone yourself.
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multiple times about his potential challenger seemingly auditioning various lines of attack. according to the senior trump campaign aides that told other officials that they would rather not face mr. biden. his initial strength in the democratic primary has surprised them. in philadelphia, biden made the case against four more years of president trump. let's watch. >> in america, people want a president to add to our division, lead with a clenked fist, a closed hand, a hard heart, to demonize your opponents, to spew hatred. they don't need me. they've got president donald trump. >> for more, i'm joined by jamal simmons. everybody saw what happened on saturday. very patriotic day right in front of city hall there. >> it was. >> and a big crowd. very positive. i'll talk my own thoughts at the end of the day but this is your time now. i think joe biden was the star.
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>> i thought that joe biden did a really good job of laying out the optimistic vision. there were lines from the old clinton days. he said something like, there is nothing that can break america other than americans which is like the clinton line. there is nothing wrong a t cann with other americans. >> with what's right about of stuff in there. i thought it was great. i did think it was light on policy. light on things that address specific communities that are part of the democratic coalition. people of color, african-americans, young people, millennials, there was not a lot in there. it was big and broad and uniting. it felt like general election messaging. i don't think he could make it all the way through the primary without hitting some of those other notes. >> president trump is rallying supporters in northeastern pennsylvania as we speak. let's watch him. >> i'll be here a lot. got to win this state.
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got to win this state. we did great last time. remember the polls? the fake polls they put out? suppression. they call them suppression polls. pennsylvania will go to hillary clinton. unfortunately polls. pennsylvania will go to hillary clinton. unfortunately it didn't go that way. what did you think of biden this weekend? >> i thought it was a solid speech. there were no gaffes. it was a solid, it was a throwback to the old day of politics. >> what about his angle which is there's no more important thing on the policy list than getting rid of this president, and i can do that because i'm going to run on american values against a guy who doesn't know american values. >> he talked about consensus. he made the critique about the president, not the republican party. whether that will get him to the primary, i don't know. i think he'll have a real problem appeasing some of the liberal constituencies of the
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democratic party. >> let's talk about the general. trump is running the general election right now. he's worried about pennsylvania. should he be? >> of course he should. he won it by a small margin last time. number that's not concerned about it -- >> without hillary as a factor and without jim comey coming at hillary as a factor. >> it's a tough state for any republican to win. we didn't win it before trump until the 1980s so it's something he has to focus on and put work in and that's what he's doing. he's visiting the state. he's focusing on that and the other states which we won by a small margin which any politician would do. >> do you think any democratic candidate will be as attentive to the rust belt? >> i'm from michigan so i'm with you on the midwest thing. i think that everybody will pay attention to it because it's important. the question is who you're paying attention to in those states. >> who can win in pennsylvania of the democrats? >> i think elizabeth warren
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could, i think kamala harris could win in that state. i think there are a few people that could win. bernie might even be able to win but i'm not convinced -- >> you smile when you say that, because i don't know either. i don't know what's going to happen. depends on the economy. if the economy goes south, any democrat would win. >> really quickly, i think there's a very clear -- people think of these midwestern rust belt people, some guy at a diner drinking a cup of coffee. a friend said think about the person who's searrving him the coffee. that's who we need to go after. some are pink collar women who are not college educated. that's who we've got to go after. >> i think you're so right. president trump attacked his preferred news network, fox, for even hosting democratic voices. yesterday president trump tweeted hard to believe that fox news is wasting air time on mayor pete, as chris wallace loves to call him. fox is moving more and more to the losing wrong side in covering the dems. they got dumped from the democrats boring debates and they just want in.
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they forgot the people who got them there. chris wallace said, i actually think whether you like his opinions or not, that mayor pete has a lot of substance. fascinating biography. gee, he never speaks well of me. i like mike wallace better. alfred e. newman will never be president. he's talking about buttigieg. a few hours later mayor pete had a chance to respond. here he goes. >> how would you handle the insults and the attacks and the tweets and all of that? >> the tweets are -- i don't care. we need to make sure that we're changing the channel from this show that he's created. because what matters, and i get it. look, it's mesmerizing, it's hard for anybody to look away, me too. it is the nature of grotesque things that you can't look away. >> ryan, all politics is television now. there he is pete with his white shirt. everybody has to make a certain statement. i'm with you. i took my coat off. joe biden took his coat off. trump is better at it.
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>> he's got the stage craft down and i think the attacks on fox -- >> is alfred e. newman working with the younger voters? >> i know who it is, i don't know if everyone does. his attacks on fox news, he's trying to work the refs here. he thinks fox news should be in his corner. he doesn't like any dissent on the channel. i think mayor pete was very, very smart to go on and do that town hall. >> people were talking about him. >> he did a great job. >> how do you think fox likes being hit like a member of the republican caucus? >> i'm sure they don't like it in public. but the problem is they keep taking care of republicans. they're so nice to donald trump. >> he gets up in the morning and wallows in "fox & friends." thank you, jamal simmons and ryan williams. up next, why the next election is about patriotism. i believe not just policy. you're watching "hardball." icy. you're watching "hardball. this is the couple who wanted to get away
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this saturday i witnessed a powerful turn in the democratic campaign to unseat donald trump. dr. jill biden set the tone. in a taped address to the crowd on the benjamin franklin parkway in philadelphia, she spoke patriotically about our country and continued on stage to speak about the country's ideals and how her husband would save them from the man now in the white house. >> it's a moment when we need leaders with vision and
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character. it's a moment for someone who can bring us together. it's a moment for joe biden. >> i don't mind confessing my sentimentalism about this country. the country needs a good fight because a great country deserves a strong fight for who gets to lead it. what i liked about the message in philly on saturday from both bidens is that those who love this country need to restore it's historic values of unity and leadership. >> we choose hope over fear, truth over lies, and, yes, unity over division. >> we need a president who makes us proud as americans. that's why this 2020 election is all about patriotism, not just about policy. but about what candidates feel about the country. they need to show that their love of country is better than their hatred of trump because that love of country and its values is the chief reason, while not the only one, to want a new president. i congratulate the bidens for making that abundantly and
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emotionally clear this weekend in my hometown, which is also the place of this country's founding. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> it's called presidential harassment. >> the president loses big in court. >> we disagree with that ruling. >> as he tries to block his former white house counsel from testifying tomorrow. >> don mcgahn is a really good guy. >> and a top democrat finally goes there on impeachment. >> if don mcgahn doesn't testify, it is time to open an impeachment inquiry. >> tonight the massive stakes over the don mcgahn fight. the implications of the new sweeping repudiation of trump's claim that congress cannot investigate him. and now bipartisan calls for impeaching the president, and the new reporting that trump's current lawyer instructed his former lawyer to lie to congress. >> i am done with the lying. >> when "all in" starts right now.