in san francisco, jake ward. one of the best back drops here at the network. good to see you. that wraps up this hour. andrea mitchell is standing by here in new york city. >> and great to see you. thanks so much, craig. right now on "andrea mitchell reports" sound of silence. the trump administration blocks former white house counsel don mcgahn from telling congress what he told robert mueller about the president's attempts to interfere with the russia investigation. >> in short, the president took it upon himself to intimidate a witness who has a legal obligation to be here today. this conduct is not remotely acceptable. >> war games. the iranian foreign minister warns that the u.s. is playing a very dangerous game as top officials head to the hill to brief both houses on the intelligence and the president's iran strategy. >> if they called we would certainly negotiate, but that's going to be up to them. i'd only want them to call if

they're ready. if they're not ready they don't have to bother. >> i hope iran is listening. we're in the region to address many things, but it is not to go to war with iran. >> and fighting back. abortion rights advocates sound the alarm with protests across the country as more states are emboldened to pass radically restrictive laws. >> the law of the land people are rising up everywhere to affirm what we in medicine and public health know to be true which is that abortion care is health care, and health care is a fundamental human right. coming up here, more from this doctor, head of planned parenthood. good day everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in new york today as house democrats and the white house are in an escalating showdown over the president's refusal to let his former white

house counsel to add hooesh to a subpoe adhere to a subpoena. addressing another emptity chair today and republicans are defending the white house. >> mr. mcgahn did not appear today because the president prevented it. just as the president has said that he would "fight all subpoenas" issued by congress as part of his broader efforts to cover up his misconduct. >> everything that we're looking at today even gaveling into today's hearing without a witness is theatrical. cameras love a spectacle and a rant against the administration. >> mcgahn's faciilure to show u pressing house speaker nancy pelosi to launch an impeachment inquiry. she is countering that would only play into the president's political strategy. joining me, kristen welker and kasie hunt.

and msnbc political analyst peter baker and msnbc legal analyst a former assistant u.s. attorney. welcome to all. kristen, first to you. the strategy from the white house to say no, just say no to everything. it's beginning to increase the tempers among the house democrats, and maybe that's exactly what the president wants? >> reporter: white house officials, andrea, if you talk to them, are not shying away from the "i" word effectively indicating that the president sees this as something that could be politically advantageous. we saw it on the campaign trail in 2018. he talked about impeachment repeatedly on the campaign trail. he saw that as a way to energize his base, and i think he'd use it similarly heading into the 2020 campaign in terms. latest back and forth between the president and democrats on capitol hill directing don mcgahn, the white house, directing him not to show up

today for that subpoena and testimony because citing a justice department rule that goes back about four decades saying top advisers have immunity from testifying on capitol hill. bottom line, andrea, they have been stonewalling on almost all of the requests. if you listen to president trump, who was out stumping in pennsylvania yesterday, he was only digging in on this strategy, and lashing out at the russia probe essentially saying that it amounted to treason. so they're not backing down. the president's not backing down, and i do think that they do see this as potentially politically advantageous for him. >> this could be the biggest challenge to nancy pelosi's hold on the caucus over this issue. kasie, a difficult meeting for her last night. they are getting angrier and angrier, it's becoming clear from the response from both doj and mcgahn's attorney that he wasn't going to show up. now what's going to happen tomorrow? there's going to be a closed-door caucus meeting. where is this thing headed? >> reporter: another closed door

meeting, andrea. and the number of times we thought the question whether they would move forward with impeachment was asked and answered, forgotten how many times we've talked through this, but looks as though there is pressure building. i would say that it's coming particularly from the judiciary committee and its members. not necessarily from kind of the broader leadership or even perhaps other people on other committees whose inquiries might suffer if, in fact, they opened impeachment proceedings in judiciary, but this is a new form of pressure on nancy pelosi. so far he leadership is sticking with her, but it's a real significant departure, because it's now not just members like alexandria oh cass yo cortez, talking about it more openly all along. i caught up with aoc earlier today and what she had to say about what she thinks pelosi's next move should be. >> i believe that the -- we have come to the time of impeachment. i think that at a certain point,

this is no longer about politics, but this is about upholding the rule of law. >> reporter: so now instead of her and a handful of others out on an island they're being joined by others in the caucus. andrea, you've covered nancy pelosi's political career for a very, very long time. you know her and her kind of approach and tactics very well. you know, if this becomes the overwhelming view in the caucus, i think you're going to start to see her reflect that. i think the question is, are these loud voices going to end up representing a sufficient number of those people to actually sway her, or if she's still going to feel that it's apparent she and others close to her, jim clyburn, steny hoyer, debbie dingell among others who believe she is in the right, that this is politically potentially devastating, andrea? >> and in fact, peter baker, we look at the trade-offs here,

they would have a better legal standing to get some of the unredacted, some of the redacted, rather, parts of the mueller report. they could get other subpoenas, because may look for favorably on demands if it were beginning of an impeachment inquiry. that congress has a legitimate purpose here. that said, the politics are all on the president's side and no way, as pointed out repeatedly, no way this is ever going to get passed the senate. opening an inquiry making them the targets, helping him with his base and die in the senate. >> right. the important number to remember is 20. you need 20 senate republicans to break with the president in order to reach the two-thirds majority you would need to convict in an impeachment trial if it got to the senate. it's conceivable obviously the house would go ahead and impeach on majority vote. democrats have majority in the house, but would it get through

a senate trial? a pack tiractical look at it. others say a matter of principle, as kasie said, a mat ert of rule of law and shouldn't worry whether or not we should s succeed or not. people remember the clinton administration. he was able to use the acquittal and say i beat what amounted to a republican coup attempt in that case. in this case president trump saying he beat what he would call a democratic coup attempt. should it matter? a question house democrats wrestle with. i think the president's approach here seems to be trying to goad them into an impeachment inquiry saying they can't have these documents or testimony because they don't have is a legitimate legislative purpose. you're right, andrea, that having an impeachment inquiry gives them stronger standing. the constitution invests the power of impeachment solely in the house, harder for executives to resist requests for testimony

and documents. >> the one set barq for the white house, me moo roqimi roca judge flatly rejected the claims. turni ining over records to the subpoena. the president's lawyers appealed that. a number of statements from this judge who just dismissed it out of hand. one quote was, it is simply not fathomable that a constitution that grants congress the power to remove a pled for reasons including criminal behavior would deny congress the power to investigate him for unlawful conduct past or present without formally opening an impeachment inquiry. this judge saying you don't even need to open impeachment inquiry. you have the right to this as part of congress' oversight. the judge also ruled you don't have the right to question the administration, they cannot question congress' motives. say it's all politics? >> right. this judge wrote the opinion in very strong terms.

didn't just rule against trump. he wrote an opinion that gives a lot of fire power to congressional democrats trying to seek all sorts of different kinds of information. what he did and he cites supreme court precedence for almost every statement he makes. not just making this up. you know, he's citing well-established case law and principles about separation of powers in the constitution. as long as congress is valid, we're not digging under it, valid, the court's job to figure whether it really is or not, congress is entitled to it and you don't need impeachment proceedings to have begun. although i agree with what many other legal scholars have said that impeachment having the official impeachment inquiry begun would strengthen the hand in court, because not every judge will see things exactly that way. but overall this is a huge blow

for trump, because, one, the speed with which can was decided shows these things can be decided quickly, and he talked about the need for that. >> six days. >> also refused to stay his order. asked for a stay while they appeal. no. seven days. now, they'll appeal it, but that may or may not happen in seven days. again, he really talked about the basic principles that are so, going to be so important in this battle going forward. >> and it could establish a predicate binding on the next judge in another couple of days but the deutsche bank issue is front and the center next. >> yes. >> and the financial records as well. >> yes. absolutely. >> being turned over. >> not binding because another district court. one district court isn't bound by another. judges from both parties, no matter who appointed by. trump like to talk about who appointed and now would have to explain why they are not following that opinion if they wanted to do something else. they couldn't just ignore it.

>> and the other big thing, so much going on in the last 24 hours even in these areas of legal conflicts between house democrats and, of course, the president. michael cohen, adam schiff, and in the interest of transarensy, the transcripts of the closed testimony of michael cohen, the president's former lawyer, is now in jail, and he makes it very clear that he at least told the mueller team that the president's private attorney jay sekulow encouraged him to give false statements to congress about how long the russia project with the trump tower in moscow was going on during the campaign. >> absolutely. the reason that was important, of course, the president said he had no business in russia and therefore no reason to suspect that he had any interest in whether or not russia was intervening in the campaign or had interest hoot would win.

we now know, of course, that he did pursue a project, that would have made hundreds of millions of dollars through june 2015, a delicates to win the republican nomination for president told congress that bid for building ended in january is a significant change, a significant, you know, difference in information. now, whether you can trust michael cohen is the other thing. jay sekulow and his people say, how can you trust michael cohen? a proven liar. literally in prison now because being convicted of lying to congress. that's obviously something mueller's team had taken into account because they didn't prosecute anybody for trying to perjure saying something untrue. that's not binding the house. house democrats are certainly, you know, capable and empowered to examine it themselves, and we'll see where they take it. >> and, in fact, michael cohen -- response to michael

cohen not a full denial. sekulow's lawyer responded michael cohen's statements are more of the same from him and confirm observations prosecutors in the southern district of new york cohen's instinct to blame others is strong. that is, of course, not a firm denial. kristen welker, kasie hunt and others thanks to all. coming up, president trump ramping up threats against iran as administration officials prepare to brief congress today on what led to this escalation with tehran. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." stay with us on msnbc. stay with, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions.

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will be briefed by the secretary of state and top defense officials on the situation in iran. against the backdrop of conflicting messaging between president trump and his national security adviser. president trump signaling if iran is ready to talk so is the u.s., but warning against carrying out threats against the u.s. or american allies. >> i think iran would be making a very big mistake if they did anything. if they do something it will be met with great force but we have no indication that they will. >> connecticut democratic senator chris murphy, the senate foreign relations committee joins me now. thank you very much. first thing i noted, there is intelligence officials listed at this briefing. is that a surprise, or just not mentioning them? >> a surprise and disappointment. that's briefings i've been at

have both the political presence in the administration but also's non-political members of the intelligence community. i think it's going to be difficult for us to try to push through the political spin on intelligence when we're only being briefed by members of the president's cabinet. i would rather have people from the community there. but there are big questions that need to be answered that go deep into the intelligence. most important of which is whether or not the iranians are responding to what they perceive as offensive actions by the united states and whether they have taken initiatives separate sand aside from what we have done in the past to escalate this situation. those are questions that you probably would be better poised to pose to members of the intelligence community. >> and the other person -- significantly not there, john bolton. mike pompeo is saying, oh, there's no disagreement.

there are no divisions here, but it's very clear from my reporting, at least, that will are divisions and there are factions, and that the president has expressed impatience with bolton, and that there have been something of a, between pompeo and bolton, differences on iran? >> there probably is, but hard-liners have won the day. i think the president is trying to push this off on his advisers. i think he loves the fact that he can look like someone that isn't gunning for war while his advisers are pushing him into that position. the fact of the matter is, we are where we are today because of decisions that the president, that the president has taken. not his advisers. the president pulled out of the iran nuclear agreement. the president named the iranians military as a terrorist group. the president positioned a carrier group close to iran. those are decisions he made. so only he is responsible for the fact we stand on the

precipice of a conflict. so i don't let him get away with pushing this off on anybody other than himself. >> it's clear that iran started escalating, at least according to what i've been told, after the designation of the iranian revolutionary guard as a terrorist group and in iran's view that's very offensive. you're not discounting intelligence, a lot of intelligence, that iran developed missiles outside of the nuclear agreement, that are potentially threatening to america and its allies? >> so iran is a bad actor in the region. has been for a long time and continues to be. support for terrorists organizations are there, illegal ballistic missile programs and contradiction of united nations resolutions remain at a major problem in the region for the united states and our allies. the problem is, we have gone back to square one. the strategy behind the obama administration was to set aside the question of iran's nuclear weapons program so that we could

then pursue a strategy to convince the iranians to change their mind about their ballistic missile program for supporting groups lie hamas and hezbollah. it is frankly sheer fantasy for this administration to believe iran will sit down and all at one the moment negotiate away their nuclear program, ballistic missile program and the proxy groups. that is not realistic. even if we get back to negotiation, i fear it will be similar to what we saw at the end of the obama administration. i think that's the best case scenario, and that means that we have gone through all of this turmoil for nothing. >> let me ask you of the possibility of a diplomatic off ramp? the president has said several times now, speaking last night, that he would be willing to talk if iran is serious about

talking. certainly willing to have negotiations. is there a path? is it true, because we saw the foreign minister in tehran yesterday. calling him last week, the secretary of state. could there be back-channel negotiations to try to get iran to de-escalate and the maybe that could lead to talks? do you see any hope there? >> well, i always see hope. they have always been an important interceder here but nothing to stop us from doing direct outreach. i would suggest to the administration today to make a connection with the iranians making sure there be no crossed wires in and around the region between their military presence and our military presence. the bigger problem, the trump administration is not a good negotiating partner. not only pull out of an agreement the united states just put their names to a few years ago, but trump has a different message for the iranians every single day.

one day says he has no desire for war. he wants to sit down. literally 24 hours later, trump goes in front of a big crowd saying that, if the iranians continue to provoke us he'll wipe them off the map. that's not an invitation to dialogue. so, well, possibly the are math could get us back to the table. whi right now, i don't see that you said a military to military connection. what connection do we have to go through? the swiss? are there direct connections? >> there were direct connections during the obama administration. the ability for secretary kerry to get on the phone with foreign ministers zarif and used that connection to diffuse potential conflict areas that arose. so i don't think there's anything stopping us either at the foreign ministry level or at the military level from creating some outreach so that if there were to be an attack against

u.s. forces from a militia in iraq that we could have a conversation about whether or not that could be just diffused and dealt with diplomatically or whether it required a military response from the united states or our allies. >> thank you very much. thanks for being with us today. >> thanks. coming up, day of action. supporters of abortion rights rally across the country today to protest against the recent wave of restrictive abortion measures. the president of planned parenthood joins menext. stay with us. you're watching msnbc. to a single defining moment... ...when a plan stops being a plan and gets set into motion. today's merrill can help you get there

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we know that women and people with uteruses will have abortions. accomplish it one way or another. we want it to be safe, legal, with providers certified to do that. >> an activist in st. louis responding to a law severely restricting access to abortions in missouri. a growing number of states are trying to all but ban abortion rights in america that existed since roe v. wade was decided. joining me, leana wen, president

of planned parenthood, protesting and a member of the "new york times" editorial board and msnbc contributor here with me. dr. wen, thanks very much for being with us. what do you see as the crisis now for planned parenthood and others who support the right to make the choice of having an abortion, or making a decision between a woman and her doctor? >> this is a very dangerous time for women's health in our country. before roe versus wade, thousands of people died every year, because they didn't have access to safe abortions, and that could happen again because of this unprecedented number of bills aimed at one thing only and one thing only, to ban all legal abortions and overturn roe versus wade in this country. abortion is safe and legal in all 50 states. planned parenthood is here to fight for our parents, serve our

patients and will always fight to preserve health and rights for all. >> there is sort of an echo chime b chamber among abortion rights activists, what we're seeing, the republican laich slaegislat even the governor in missouri. >> the fruits of a 30-year battle by far right wing extremists and also just by anti-abortion activists to take over state legislatures. democrats didn't really pay much attention and i think that unfortunately, this is kind of the result of that, and i think democrats also didn't pay the same attention to the courts that republicans and, you know, folks on the right did, and i think that this is, this is now breaking out into the mainstream consciousness that this is actually a real -- this is

really happening. this has been brought home in a visceral way. the bill in alabama that passed last week was especially troubling. not only is their interest in banning abortions but direct attacks on women's health. that has not actually been a part of the conversationthoughs it is abortion at stake. it's also a woman's ability to go seek care after a miscarriage, to go to a planned parenthood to get checked for cervical cancer. these billing are not just anti-abortion, they're anti-women. >> and louisiana, as also, dr. wen, another state, the governor is a republican, but a democrat in indiana signed the bill and the bill is much more restrictive, not as rivgt estri as alabama but more than we've seen in recent years. >> and we know that this is a direct defiance to what the american people want.

73% of americans support roe versus wade as the law of the land. and we're seeing today in our day of action all around the country in over 500 communities and 50 states including d.c. and puerto rico, we are seeing people rise up all over to protect our fundamental health and our freedoms. and people are here today to say we understand what medicine and public health have been saying. which is abortion care is health care. politicians have no role to play in the exam room. the personal health decisions should be left to a woman in consultation with her doctor and her family. >> and is it going to be a political issue, a threshold issue, for democratic primary voters? >> i think it is absolutely. one of the really upsetting things about this is that a majority of americans support abortion rights and this is just one more issue where actually a small group, a small minority of

americans is controlling the outcome and the future of a much larger group of americans because of the way the electoral college stands and the way the election map looks. i think that women have now understand instituted what's at stake. women are all political parties, and you're going to see this as a litmus test. >> thank you both for joining us. and coming up, more democrats demanding nancy pelosi launch impeachment investigations into president trump. democratic congressman and presidential candidate seth moulton joys me next. stay with me on "andrea original repor mitchell reports" on msnbc. hellc memories. what we deliver by delivering.

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nothing happened. and when his administration illegally refused to testify nothing happened. now you tell us to wait for the next election? really? really? really? this is why we volunteered, raised money, went door to door and voted in the last election. our founding fathers expected you - congress - to hold a lawless president accountable. and you're doing nothing. nothing. nothing. he broke his oath of office. he's defying you. he's laughing at you. and he's getting away with it. this is our democracy. but congress is part of the system and the system is broken. we have to fix it. need to impeach is responsible for the content of this advertising.

and don't forget. biden deserted you. i guess he was born here but he left you, folks. he left you for another state. remember that, please. i meant to talk about that. this guy talks about, scranton, i know. well, i know the places better. he left you for another state and he didn't take care of you because he didn't take care of your jobs. >> not exactly. the battle to pennsylvania. the president narrowly won democrats in 2016. two days after joe biden's big rally in pennsylvania the president held his own rally in western pa slamminged bien from moving from scranton, pa, to delaware even though he was just a child and moved with his

family. does being a pennsylvanian or from delaware matter? the president trash talked -- is being trash talked by the president does it signify you are now a credible candidate? joining me now is democratic congressman and presidential candidate seth moulton, and congratulations on your candidacy. you're not from pennsylvania, you're from massachusetts. congressman, let's talk about -- >> thank you, andrea. >> -- how the president is going after joe biden and pete buttigieg and bernie sanders. he hasn't taken you on yet. does that mean he doesn't see you as a strong contender? >> i'm only four weeks into the campaign. a very new race. this is a marathon not a sprint and good we have a lot of candidates in the race. donald trump will be harder to beat than many democrats think. i spent a lot of the last two years working lard to win back the house by supporting people especially veterans in tough districts across this country. we have to make sure we put forward the strongest nominee.

why i'm taking on donald trump in this race, not just as president but as commander in chief, because i think that's actually where he's weakest. if we're going to win this race we need to show how democrats will make america safe, strong and secure. >> the president feels one be way to rally his base, say democrats are trying to -- you know, relitigate the election, impeach him, and take away the white house from him that way, rather than through the ballot. what you are now, you're in favor of starting an impeachment inquiry even though it clearly would benefit the president politically? >> look i don't really care what the president says here. we have a constitutional responsibility to act as a check on the executive. i get the political arguments here from both sides of the aisle. how about just doing the right thing? doing the right thing by the constitution that i swore an oath to protect and defend? you can't tell me with over 30 of the president's associates indicted as a result of the mueller probe and his campaign

chairman in prison today that there's not enough to debate impeachment. remember, the house does two things. debate things and vote on them. i'm not calling for a vote on impeachment. we don't have all the facts but should be getting them and making a decision for the american people. >> and nancy pelosi on this is warning the republicans in the senate will never go along with you. basically a futile exercise? >> but she has a good point about the likelihood of impeachment actually going through, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have this debate. shouldn't have this exploration before the american people. we all deserve to know what the president has done wrong. and we all deserve to know why vladimir putin one of the only people on earth who could wipe out every american life within about 20 minutes wanted donald trump elected president. most recently we heard that the president instructed don mcgahn to ignore a congressional

subpoena. ignoring a subpoena is called breaking the law. and everybody in the unite of america has to follow the law. >> and the fact that most voters, most democratic voters, care about health care. not about impeachment, not about the russia investigation. >> look, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. no reason why we can't fulfill or constitutional responsible to be hold the president account and and also putting forward a positive agenda for americans's one thing i'm spending a lot of time in this campaign talking about is health care. because a lot of democrats want medicare for all, as the only option. i think one option among many and i say that at the only candidate who actually gets single payer health care because i made a commitment to continue going to the v.a., i'm going oh there, too. we all know the system is broken and the v.a. is not a perfect system. i'm not sure we should force

that on every american. >> you did four tours in iraq. and iraqis are notably nervous about iran, and actually would prefer that the u.s. not be as provocative, they believe, according to their leadership, against iran. what is your take on the way john bolton and others have been, some say, pushing the president towards a confrontation with iran? >> i think that's exactly what john bolton is doing and exactly what john bolton did 15 years ago when he pushed us into war with iraq. had you a similar situation with a weak commander in chief. someone who dodged his own generation's war and didn't have the credibility to say, stop. we don't need to escalate. when the last people in this administration who had that credibility was secretary jim mat in tis mattis. when he came in september, when we were actually attacked, matt mattis, said, no.

this is not the reaction to put more troops in the gulf, that could make things worse. unfortunately he resigned. i don't know if anything is left in the administration with the credibility to say this is not a smart strategy to go to war with iran. >> thank you very much for being with us. in a moment, msnbc political reporter spoke on the steps of the supreme court at that abortion rights ali with another presidential candidate, mayor pete buttigieg. let's listen. >> reporter: you've talked how democrats need to be careful not to get distracted by talking about issues that are different than what democrats want to be talking about. how concerned are you, if at all, the abortion issue is one mp those and this makes it harder to talk about things you want to talk about, wages, the economy and why the president's interviews are working? >> this is another example of an issue most americans agree with democrats.

these legislatures adopted positions that most americans would consider to be extreme. most americans believe in roe versus wade, believe in women's reproductive freedom and the even when people have a different view or set of values around what that choice should be, most americans believe it should be up to the woman to make that choice. pursuing a radical extreme agenda on the social issue, republicans are dopg the same on living wages or health care. one more example of the extremism in the modern republican party and it's our job on the democratic side to show how all of these issues, same place an attack on women's reproductive rights ar the same places it's hard to get a living wage, same places you're seeing voter suppression that seemed to be directed to communities of color. all of these things are important and what we're donald reminding the american majority we are in fact a majority and the extreme agenda bite hard

right is out of step with the american people. >> reporter: and things controversy including in your home state what is your message to voters out there who may be conservative who feel that their own views against abortion rights are firmly rooted in their own faith and morality? you may never find one candidate who agrees with you on every issue. end of the day, no matter how effective this white house is at dividing the american people our interesting are mainly aligned. i believe there's a relationship between all of these rights and freedoms. in particular, talk about my part of the country, the industrial midwest, we are amorning those with the most to lose from the resistance to living wages coming out of the conservative side right now. when the conversation is about the issues democrats win. when the conversation is about tweets or insults or something coming out of left field, then we get distracted. i think this is one more example of a moment where the majority of americans agree on something, and there's a lot of extremism

in the republican party forcing moderates to ask when the republican party has left them behind. >> reporter: left up to women where to draw the line even in the third trimester. i want to say any other restrictions on abortion rights that you support? >> the framework is established in roe versus wade. early in pregnancy, very few restrictions. late in pregnancy, very few exceptions. and that has stood as the law of the land for as long as i've been alive. what's radical is the idea of are banning abortion outright, the thought that a woman who is raped and seeks abortion care can find her doctor going to prison longer than her rapist. new and extreme is the assault on roe versus wade which has established the framework for common sense protections, restrictions and exceptions that have been the law of the land as long as i've been alive and now being overturned or threatened by radical agendas. >> and behind you, the supreme court. talked about the need for real reform.

floated a plan that 0 would expanding number to 15, five by democrat, five by republicans 5 by others. that creates a vicious cycle essentially whichever party controls the congress and the white house is able to ching the makeup of the court to suit their political views. are you worried about that? >> i am for whatever supreme court will depoliticize this body. we cannot continue to have the. see court being regarded as an almost nakedly political institution. i think the reform is not just expanding the number of members but doing it in a way some are selected on a consensus non-partisan basis that's a promising way to do it. there may be others. the point, we have to get out from where we are now. every time there's an opening there's an apocalyptics fire fight that harms the court and the country. at least in outcomes like now, what you see playing out on the ground is wildly out of wack

with when the american people expect. >> and just across the street, don mcgahn, the president's former lawyer, refusing to testify. do you think don mcgahn should be held in contempt of congress? >> it's clear this administration thinks they're above the law and a private citizen, still ordered to defy a lawful request. on the orders of a former boss. makes no sense. i'm not a legal expert, but my understanding is that exactly this is the sort of thing that these findings are about. i'll leave that to congress to find out. >> thank you. >> poot buttigieg on capitol hill at the aboerrtion protest outside the supreme court. and kamala harris last night calmed for inpendant investigations into fatal police shootings and brutalities. >> independent investigations. no question. there's got to be an independent

investigation conducted from the first moments of the incident so that we can be certain and sure that there has been a thorough investigation not informed by bias and justice for all of the people concerned. from the field," pulitzer playwrite beens people caught up including the dramatic account from the man that captured the final moments of freddie grey's life in baltimore before he died in police custody. >> by then they had him all faced up, bent down, the heels of his feet almost to his back. he was handcuffed at the time, the knee in the neck. >> that explains the three crushed vertebrae and 80% of his spinal cord severed and stuff. i had to zoom in, you could see the pain in the man's face. >> this is a part of a fight against a system which civil rights activists say pushes students of color out of the

classroom into prison. i understand the man you were playing there came to the play and he had been a witness to freddie grey's death. tell me what happened. >> i don't think he actually came to the play. that's kevin moore, who was the person who filmed the deaths of freddie grey or rather he filmed the beating of freddie grey. as you know it's widely believeed that freddie grey was killed while in police custody. >> in filming that, he talked to you about it afterwards? >> yeah. >> as you were preparing this and working on this project? >> yes. to write notes in the field, i interviewed all these people. >> tell me about that interview. >> well, that interview came by accident really. we were driving through the streets of baltimore not that long after the riots of 2015. one of the young people that work with me said, hey, i think that itself guy that filmed the beating of freddie grey. we jumped out of our car, right

there on the street i got him to take me to the actual site and really walk through what had happened that day and said freddie grey is a consequence of the beating and how he was handled while in custody. >> how can you in interpreting and conveying what these people go through against this system, how can you change the system? >> well, i think it's a broader question about what art can do. you know i just try to tell the story and in doing so, in this case, playing 19 different people caught up into what we call the school-to-prison pipeline and other kind of violence in their communities are really just trying to change hearts as well as minds. right? there is so much the data i think can do to bring us around as citizens to try to protect the most vulnerable. that's what i'm trying to do is to beg out the empathic imagination that i believe everybody has. >> what did you learn about the

school prison pipeline from your investigation? >> well, i think the first thing i learned is that it shouldn't be called the school-to-prison pipeline. it's really about poverty. and the only danger of using that word school is that we are blaming schools and teachers for something that's much bigger than what schools r. and if we want schools to be the intervention that we thought they could be against poverty, against racism. against disadvantaged, then they have to be different. schools and teachers need many more resources and in the communities of poor white people as well. >> tell me about bree newsom who you also interviewed and portray and took down the frag in north carolina. >> yes, bree newsom is very interactive. she's an interesting civil rights activist. one of the things is that story of bree taking down the confederate flag after the terrible massacre of mother

emanuel church is she actually could not have done that without the collaboration of two groups. this was sort of a group of black lives matter folks and also greenpeace activists, because bree didn't know how to climb a flag pole. she had never climbed anything before, so greenpeace activists came down from new york and taught her how to climb a treatment i love this story not just because of bree's courage, it show what is we need to do and can do across lines. >> i heard a statistic from a civil rights leader yesterday that one if three african-american men in our country will face some criminal justice action in jail over some prison time in this country and that has to change and you are doing everything you can to change it? >> well, really, my focus the on children. you know because i think many of us are very concerned about mass incarceration in our country and the actual fact that this

process can begin as early as 3rd grade and not just to boys but to girls. it's heart breaking. >> thank you very much. and coming up, suffering in solitary as shocking nbc news investigations into thousands of immigrants, many children locked up in solitary confinement. you are watching andrea mitchell of course on msnbc. a mitchell of course on msnbc around the co. around the co. or could it be different than i thought? i wanted to help protect myself. my doctor recommended eliquis. eliquis is proven to treat and help prevent another dvt or pe blood clot... almost 98 percent of patients on eliquis didn't experience another. ...and eliquis has significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. don't stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. if you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling, numbness, or muscle weakness.

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tonight nbc news is taking a closer look at the treatment of

detained migrants across the u.s., newly obtained document on the widespread use of sol dharry confinement, showing more than 8,000 cases over a five-year period, only half of these involve punishment for moving violations, the other half unrelated to disciplinary concerns and a man was sent to solitary for what i.c.e. describes as safety reasons. the department of homeland security is speaking publicly for the first time about a system she says involves widespread abuse of humans. >> solitary confinement was being used as the first resort, not the last resort. >> so why are you speaking up now? >> because if i didn't speak up, i don't think i could live with myself. >> i.c.e. responding saying they are firmly exited to the safety and welfare of all of those in its custody. the use of restrictive housing in i.c.e. detention facilities

is exceedingly rare, but at times in es to ensure the safety of staff and people in the facility. for more tune into "nicely news" with leicester holt, check your local listings. >> that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell" reports. >> have a great afternoon. hi, everyone, i'm ali velshi. >> i'm stephanie ruhle. we begin with breaking news. president trump about to make another major move on immigration. >> he's expected to name former virginia kevin cuccinelli to the top job at home? at homeland security. what is he doing in this role? >> reporter: that's a good question. we asked specifically for his title and what his role will be. but he's certain at the department of homeland ri