that is going to do it for me on this hour of alex witt. i'll see you tomorrow at noon earn. coming up, it is "up with david gura." this is "up." i'm david gura. so far there has been golf, selfies and sumo wrestling. what's missing from president trump's trip to japan, any signs of progress on policy. >> prime minister, i talked a lot today about trade and military and various other things, and i've always wanted to see sumo wrestling. >> it's likely north korea was one of those things that the president's national security adviser said one thing about the rogue regime, the president said something else entirely. >> i think we're doing very well with north korea, a lot of progress is being made. and a new agreement between the president's attorneys and congressional investigators as lawmakers get closer to pressing

trump's financial statements. >> the president seems to be hiding something. >> it's sunday, may 26, and on his trip to japan, the president is making an impression. >> a guy talking like -- and then there's a very different sound, there's a guy like that. then -- so we go for weird. >> up with me this morning, a white collar criminal defense attorney and a former chair of the bar association pac. lj williams is a political strategist and host of "sunday sis civics" on sirius xm, and also a columnist for the national

times. i think it's 9:00 in the evening. president trump finishing dinner with shinzo abe, capping off a busy day. the president hit a sumo match earlier, he and the prime minister golfed. president trump announcing he has no plans to cut a trade deal with japan, and overnight he dismissed something that is of great concern to his japanese host, the nuclear threat from north korea. he called him swampman and made a tweet that misspelled joe biden. he corrected that error. shinzo abe visited trump after the primary election.

he gave trump a golf club worth $3800, dropped in on first lady melania trump's birthday dinner and nominated trump for a nobel prize. tomorrow trump will be the first foreign leader to meet with japan's emperor, something trump boasted about as this trip got underway. >> prime minister abe said to me very specifically, you are the guest of honor. there is only one guest of honor, i represent the country. with all the countries of the world, i'm the guest of honor. >> he said he's going in part because this will be bigger than the super bowl, the meeting he's going to have, the audience he's going to have tomorrow. we know this is a president that hates to travel. he's a homebody. he likes things just so. why has he made the trip? how did he justify the purpose for this? >> he said it would be the biggest thing that happened for japan in 200 years. >> over the emperor, huh?

maybe both. >> we know they have a close relationship. we also have seen that prime minister abe has really sought out the president to kind of embrace japan in this way. there's so much frought relationships over there in asia at this point, as we know, with china growing, threatening the u.s. economy, certainly has been a threat to japan. also north korea is a looming threat to the world but especially to those close neighbors. abe has decided that keeping close to trump is a good idea. whether the people of his country believe that, he's not popular in japan, remains to be seen. but for him in the short term, he's decided this is the way to go. >> this is a guy who has a handle on trump in terms of what he likes, what he wants to do, what that pageantry was supposed to look like. there was steak and chicken served at the dinner, not much different than he would experience in the united states. >> there is this big sucking

sound i'm listening to right now and it won't go away. abe is sucking up to donald trump in ways that take it to a whole other level with nothing in return, or just a hope and a prayer that they can cut a deal on trade as well as north korea. and donald trump is saying and doing just the opposite or doing nothing. so it's a big risk for abe, i think. but he also does well with donald trump vis-a-vis playing to his ego which is number one priority for sucking up to donald trump, and he's making all the right moves, but donald isn't returning on the policy piece. and so that's going to be a problem. we'll have to see whether the sucking up diplomacy works for abe in this case. >> to that point, the president tweeting, saying that he's not going to announce any sort of trade deal until after the elections in japan in the coming months. surely that's a huge disappointment for the prime minister who has done all of this, i assume, in the hopes there could be some amelioration

of that. >> he's talking trash about nato, he really doesn't like the concept that america is paying too much for other people's security. japan is like ground zero, literally, for america paying too much for everybody's security. they don't really have a military to speak of. he would be a threat to japan. abe wants to build a military and have japan have a mo more robust sense of nationalism, so there needs to be a transition period. trump doesn't talk about that nearly as much as he talks trash about nato and their commitments. so he's kind of dulled that. that is the biggest single thing even though the japanese public doesn't necessarily like america staying there, doesn't like the presence there, but they also are not really ready yet to take responsibility for their own affairs. in that sense, he went. he does it by flattering the president. this is the problem with kind of the great man theory of politics

that donald trump sub skriscrib and embodies more than any other president, is that other countries know that, too. think about his tweet talking about biden, low iq biden. anyone who talks about low iq -- his tweet about that talked about how, you know, chairman kim is going to fulfill his promise to me, i'm not so worried about those missiles over there. that's the problem. you personalize policy. you believe you, as a great man, can meet with another authori authori -- authoritarian great man. >> getting somebody to stop talking or thinking about things a lot is by flattering his ego. that goes to our overall

national security standpoint when you're talking about russia, talking about saudi arabia, all of that. it puts the american people in harm's way and puts our country in harm's way because others are able to manipulate the president in such a way. >> how do you know it's working, though? i agree with both of you all, but how does the truth manifest itself as abe is giving all of this and plays to his ego. donald trump is saying nothing, he can't be trusted. i understand the analysis on the approach, but how does it manifest itself in the metrics of a win? >> to that point we've seen other world leaders try to flatter the president as well. justin trudeau of canada, france, and that's been completely repudiated. >> didn't last long. >> there is not a definitive tie between the efforts of flattery and the manifestation of policy

because president trump doesn't operate that way, as we all know. >> to add to that, the reason why i think it works in the other case is think about who he holds up. he holds up people that he believes are strong, that are dictators a dictators and show this sort of brute force that he tries to show here in the united states. so that's what he holds up which is different than talking about macron of canada. he doesn't perceive these countries or these leaders in that way, so their overtures will be rebuffed. >> there is a natural affinity there. it makes sense. >> to your point about how it plays, he arrived there and met with some business leaders, and he called toyota by name. there's been some tariffs over cars, and that's something i'm certain they're talking about while he's there.

how does that bluster happen around the united states? >> everybody is creating a buffer zone. it's like, okay, he's coloring pretty far outside the lines, so we have to -- >> we hear that noise but we can tune it out. >> yes. you just sort of have to, and america is having kind of an unusual period right now. you kind of deal with it. but i think the practical matter they're trying to do is to mitigate the potential negative effects of trump as tariff man, as he described himself m memorably on twitter here. that's the problem, that's why you have to do business with him right now. regardless, you have to feed him the cheeseburgers and go to the sumo match, you have to mitigate the problems with trump's trade war. >> you're the snake pit, though. when you're in a snake pit and you're trying to do business with a snake, there is no trust there and you're only on a hope and a prayer. so these countries who don't want to get caught up in the

whole tariff piece and need something from donald trump, right, they're trying to charm the snake. but you know the story about the spider and the snake swimming across the pond and, you know, it's in his nature, if you will. you get on his back and he takes you across the flood, and then the spider bites the snake because the snake -- he says, why did you do that? he says, because it's in my nature. it's in donald trump's nature, right, not to give back, to win, to cheat, to defraud and get as much accolades as he can and getti giving nothing in return. >> people see this as a period. as you listen to the candidates on the campaign trail, there is a disagreement over how much this has appeared or how much these effects of what's happened over the last few years played out. >> globally we're seeing the exact same thing going on, more and more nationalist leaders taking charge across the globe. why we think this is an isolated

incident that will be brushed aside in the 2020 election, very doubtful. candidates on the campaign trail are careful to say that. the world has changed. we've seen an evolution toward this moment, and this moment isn't going away any time soon. >> we'll be back in a moment and talk about that tweet. there are escalating tensions but that has not stopped him from weighing in on a few things around the world. we're talking about iran's foreign minister. that's coming up next. iran's foreign minister that's coming up next. other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith. who we paired with a humana team member to help address his own specific health needs. at humana, we take a personal approach to your health, to provide care that's just as unique as you are. no matter what your name is. ♪

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i'm david gura and i want to go back to one of the tweets president trump sent from japan. north korea firing off some small weapons, he wrote, which disturbed some of my people and others, but not me. i have confidence that chairman kim will keep his promise to me and also smiled when he called swampman joe biden a low iq individual and worse. perhaps that's sending me a signal? john bolton, the president's national security adviser, told reporters in tokyo hours before president trump arrived in japan that recent tests violated the resolutions. bolton also said i think shinzo abe and president trump are going to talk about making sure the integrity of the security council resolutions are maintained. here's how president trump responded after the launch on may 9. >> we're looking at it very

seriously right now. they were smaller missiles, short-range missiles. nobody is happy about it, but we're taking a good look and we'll see. we'll see. >> i want to home in on the second part of that tweet in which the president calls former vice president joe biden swa swampman and a picture of shinzo abe having a laugh at joe biden's expense. a senior adviser writing this on twitter. i've been doing digital rapid response for a while, but i honestly have no idea what to do with this. hallie jackson joins me now from tokyo. she is the white house chief correspondent, of course. let's take this tweet in two parts. let's talk about the part about the missile test, his reaction to them and what we've heard from the national security adviser. >> reporter: it doesn't square, david, as you explained. john bolton told japanese-based reporters that, in fact, those missile tests are a violation of the united nations security

resolutions. donald trump seems to be downplaying that. might this be strategic, perhaps, allowing bolton to take a harder stance and the president to open the door to negotiations, but think of what this does with talks with shinzo abe. the japanese are concerned. they don't think this is small potatoes about these missile tests by north korea. as you know, oftentimes the missiles will head right over to japanese territory, right? this is a major concern for the japanese and it's something that likely will come up, certainly will come up in their talks tomorrow. they've been talking today. you heard the president reference, for example, that they touched on trade, the military, other things, but tomorrow we know it's going to be a more formal what they call bilateral sit-down, so the two leaders, some of their top officials, and there will be a more formal agenda where they talk about north korea but also trade and other things, david. >> you've been covering the foreign leaders and trump, and

we get an inside look at the dynamic of when they sit down and have sat down in the past. what's described in the second part of that tweet, the laugh the two of them had about joe biden. him, according to the president, appropriating one of the president's favorite phrases, low iq individual. this is pretty astonishing. >> it is also very notable, david, and that's why you've seen, for example, democrats, joe biden's advisers come out strongly about this. biden's team has said what they've said all along, that the former vice president's position about this sort of authoritarian dictator, right? trump is holding out hope that his legacy can be a hope builder for him, that potentially this could be the president's signature diplomatic effort on the international front. so he doesn't want to give up hope of that, it seems. you are still hearing, and even

from john bolton, he is still holding out the possibility of talks continuing with kim jong-un, even given these more recent missile tests. all along, you know, the white house's argument of the success the president is trying to build with kim was the fact that he was not launching missiles. that was something tangible that people could point to that obviously is no longer the point, but the president says, let's continue this budding relationship. he really wants this to happen. but you talk to experts, they'll say president trump is thumbing his nose not just at the community but at the nation. >> just waiting by the phone for a call from north korea. hallie jackson in north korea, thank you very much. > let's get your reaction from this tweet. they are not small weapons. they're not intercontinental ballistic weapons, but this is a

test that scared japan which is in close proximity to north korea. >> and not like the failed second summit, this is the second one. he's done it before, and it violates the resolution. it is embarrassing. i think publicly donald trump is in denial. he's in denial because as hallie said, he doesn't want to give up that this could be a signature diplomatic mood for him. we've seen this with the clintons, we've seen it with both bushes, they have discussions and then north korea goes back to doing what they do best. hey, i've got nuclear weapons, there are 17 other countries that have nuclear weapons, so why should i give these nuclear weapons up? i'm on the world stage with donald trump now, i'm getting attention with putin right now, and donald trump is going to have to give up the goose at some point. he's just not ready to do it right now. >> what's your read on this?

i go back to the summit where the president talked about a peace deal with the middle east. he walked away from that table -- somebody walked away from the table -- and he moved on to the next deal. what sparks the continued engagement of this issue? >> he has personalized this relationship between the two countries. it's actually now between the two men. and he has invested a lot of -- for donald trump, personal -- i don't even want to say the word empathy, but belief in kim jong-un's basic goodness, that he is going to come through with what he told president trump that he would do. it's so personal to him now that for his counterpart to turn and walk away and refute everything that president trump agrees upon, he can't believe that that's the case, so he will hold

out hope as long as he possibly can. and also on the point that hallie said, if he can make this a conservative diplomatic issue, why go back to the way it's been for decades? why not try to make this work. >> he's not moving the needle, though. it's complete denial. and one of the tweets after the first summit was that north korea is no longer a nuclear threat. that's an amazing statement made by the leader of the western world, the leader of this world. >> we've seen this before. the president goes overseas, there is a significant time difference and then -- you cover the tweets or not cover the tweets, but he can really upend things. certainly in the relationship, in the conversations he's having with shinzo abe because of sending a tweet like this. >> aside from him blocking me on twitter, i can't get away from his tweets. >> he blocked you? >> no, i blocked him. i blocked him, i muted his name,

everything, and it still comes back because it's also something that is reported all the time. part of this conversation also is that i don't necessarily think he's in denial, i think he's completely in his own world, right? if he has his perceived respect and admiration for this person, then he can do no wrong in the relationship. this is not denial to him, this is just a pursuit of his agenda. you see that no matter what he tweets about certain things, whether or not his team is trying to, in different ways, trying to signal through our media, through negotiations that he will contradict there, and that's not only from a foreign policy situation, that's from a domestic policy situation. he's in his own world, and that's part of the reason i go back to conversations about why there isn't the press corps conversation, because he's going to tweet something differently completely from what people just said in a press conference or something like that.

he has created his own world and who he admires and who he is continually propping up as a leader that he respects. so it doesn't matter, you know, if the talk is failing if in his mind it's working because of this personal admiration that he has for them. >> in his mind, and i want to get your insight, you look at that tweet as initially sent out, the punctuation misplaced, joe biden's surname misspelled. just the fact he's talking about joe biden, delivering this an x anecdo anecdote, it's not only north korea but also the gulf. >> something i addressed with the greater policy writer at tufts is we're getting to a stage where we're kind of making a partisan issue out of foreign countries, right? so when foreign countries have a

stake on what the president says when, that's mischief on their part. they want to weigh in. what trump is almost trying to do is say to japan, hey, look, it's in your interest to have me win examine aland also vote for. i don't like when it comes from the democratic site, too, we shouldn't be in those types of relationships. he's deliberately trying to foment that. to throw in a little bolton at the end here, i talked to him before he was nominated knowing there were three different strands in the foreign policy of the united states now. there is the trump strand, there was nikki haley at the u.n., and there was the part of trump that nobody likes. and part of what i know he would want to do is try to create a single coherent foreign policy. that hasn't happened.

trump has his ideas, bolton has his ideas and they're not the same. in some cases, many cases, there is too much bolton and not enough trump. >> we hear about the trump doctrine and i keep hearing this phrase the pompeo doctrine. >> there isn't a sort of trump bench so he's surrounded by hawks. trump would love, i think, to withdraw from afghanistan. he said he wanted to withdraw from syria and other places. have we done it? no, we haven't. that's because every time he tries, everybody else goes and plays golf with him, lindsey graham gets there before rand paul does. i would agree with trump's instincts there, but the military establishment does not agree with that, unfortunately, so that prevents it. it keeps a sort of incoherence

going forward. >> we don't have a coherent foreign policy. you've got trump's view of the world, you've got pompeo's view of the world, you've got bolton's view of the world. you see with other countries they have -- bolton shouldn't be in the meetings because bolton is the problem. we could get a deal done but bolton is too hard line, right? then the president has to react to that, the congress has to react to that and it's such a divide and conquer, if you will. i don't know whether it's working or not, but in these complex discussions, having that as one element is really problematic. we're going to come back in just a moment. when we come back from the missile tests, bombshell news of president trump's financial information on a fast track. s f information on a fast track. it's tough to quit smoking cold turkey. so chantix can help you quit

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tto harrison, the wine tcollection.. to craig, this rock. the redwoods to the redheads. the rainbows to the proud. i leave these things to my heirs, all 39 million of you, on one condition. that you do everything in your power to preserve and protect them. with love, california. the lawmakers still don't have access to president trump's financial documents, and they won't have them for a few more weeks, at least. the president's legal team has reached a deal with the house permanent select committee on intelligence and the house financial services committee. one of the president's attorneys tells nbc news in a statement, i can confirm that an agreement has been reached with the house regarding a stay of the subpoena's pending appeal. it has now been filed with the

court. the deutsche bank has handed them over and the president must comply. there hasn't been many deals, not much comedy between the president's legal team and congressional team in congress. there is going to be this pause and they won't see these documents. >> it is pretty pro forma in these types of situations. both of them, despite their angst for one another, it was that or they go to the court of appeals or supreme court and they would be granted a stay on something like this, which is a case of first impression and political importance to the country. so it's not much of a deal. but know this, the democratic party and congress are going to get these financial records. if they don't get them at the federal level, they'll get them at the state level, and this is all about running the time out,

delaying. also know this, between the lawyers, while you get the stay, you're also having a conversation about what we can get, what we can't get, who gets it, when we get it and what they can do with it. they're talking about that also. this is an expensive process, it's been delayed. you have these elections coming up. they ever to be careful about the messages they're sending, but more importantly, how the public and the dems are talking about this. >> you heard them talking about how these have been victories for them principally because it happens so quickly. i mentioned this was fast tracked. yes, running up to the presidential election or very close to it, what does the timing tell you about how this process is unfolding? >> i just wanted to add to your point. we're seeing that deal around these specific financial

records, but the house committee has already gotten wells fargo as reported. so these committees already have someplace to start on president trump's financial records. he's hanging on very, very tenuously at this point to the hope he can run the clock out. actually, it's a strategy that could work. the house does not want this going into the election year next year, this endless fighting, this endless standoff. it overshadows what's going on -- >> neither side, actually. >> yes, but it advantages president trump if this continues because there is no accountabili accountability. if it overshadows what's going on on the campaign trail, the democrats are desperately trying to turn the conversation around to what they're going to do for the economy, education, all those things, especially health care. if this continues, if that clock running out continues and doesn't bring president trump and his multitude of things that congress wants to look into to some accountability, it also allows him to continue his argument that the democrats are

just trying to harass him. and that's just not an argument the 2020 candidates want to be having. >> they don't want to be making it, i'm sure lawmakers running for president don't want to be making it as well. have they been clear enough, lj, how does it continue to move on? >> these people who want the financial records, the tax returns, yes, they want it, and that's what they're following. the people who don't really care that much, are not invested in the 24-hour cycle of, you know, impeachment, do we have his tax returns, is he -- like, it's not a part of their conversation. i agree with you that the more that anything that trump can say or spin as being they're just attacking me, they're harassing me, which, by the way, i think he's going to do whether -- that's going to be his argument, anyway, right? he'll find something to make that. so that's the divide that you

see, that there are people, both on the progressive side and democrats also who want this to proceed. want the impeachment to proceed, want the tax returns and things like that and they're invested in it. then there are others that are like, what about health care? what did you say about education? so there is that divide. ultimately when i think people go through to the campaign cycle, the conversation of we need someone to beat trump is not going to be the selling point at the end of the day. it's really going to be about the other items that we're talking about and sort of putting forth the candidate that does that. that's the weird balance of politics that we're in now is that people want to beat trump, but then i also want someone who is going to fix health care and fix our infrastructure the balance that's going into the 2020 election, that's what we're going to see and which will outweigh the other? >> i want to ask about the investigation into the investigations the president is

trying to champion here. he viewed these new powers into the election. what do you think that? >> i think it's proper to have these origins, but i think we should know as much as we can legally about the source of surveillance and it might tell us something about the system of how easy it is -- >> so you are not sympathetic to those in the intelligence community that say, this has been our jurisdiction, our purview, and now we ever the general election. >> i think the fisa court absolutely needs to be looked at. it's been kind of a rubber stamping institution for a long time. let's get the reasoning behind some of their decisions. i don't say this as someone who believes the nunez memos are going to blow the lid off

everything, no, i just don't want it to be easy to conduct surveillance on americans. >> it's not going to happen legally. this is a big deal whereby you put the attorney general essentially by executive order over these agencies and consult with them about what they're going to be able to disclose or not disclose. it's dangerous, too. we have assets around the country, we have to recruit people, and this is really problematic because who is going to share information with us if they believe that it can be declassified? the attorney general, given his penchant for supporting this president despite his legal career, that adds another layer of problems to this whole thing, and the fisa court is not going to get investigated. the reason it's there is because it's a secret court. we have to trust them. i don't like that, either. i'm a democrat but it is what it is. so look for a lawsuit or an injunction by someone of interest, even the house or senate, if this investigation

that barr is doing, this counter-investigation, continues to run its course and then they start to beef about what can be declassified or not. there is going to have to be a fisa court or a federal judge in camera that is going to have to make a decision if they continue beefing. if you're lucky enough to get one, it could put you ahead of victory. and we honor the men and women who died serving their armed forces. to them we say thanks. ♪

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as you know, tomorrow there is a crucial election, that's why i'm here. got to win this state. we did great last time. remember the polls, the fake polls? pennsylvania will go to hillary clinton. unfortunately for them, it didn't work out that way. fred keller is a tough man. he's tough on crime. he loves our military. when we campaign for people, they win. >> president trump at a rally monday in pennsylvania seemingly still struggling to look forward to 2020 without looking back to 2016. it was an event for the president's reelection campaign, but it was also an opportunity for president trump to urge voters in central pennsylvania to vote for fred keller, a republican running to represent pennsylvania's 12th congressional district. the next day the president tweeted out a reminder. pennsylvania, he wrote, don't forget to get out and vote today

for fred keller for congress. fred is strong on crime, military vets and health care. he has my complete and total endorsement. quick premier now of what you could call the art of the president's endorsement tweet. you can find 64 endorsements leading up to the mid-terms. he has a complete endorsement six times and a strong endorsement three times used in his tweets. insert would be governor or senator's name that's running for office. the choices are outstanding in every way, worked hard or smart orphan task followed by the ubiquitous strong on crime, military vets and health care. remember, with health care there

are three choices for that, week, full or strong. he spoke in the rose garden wednesday. >> we had a great election. i went there on monday. we had an election for fred keller, who was a 50-50 shot, and he won in a landslide. we went and we did a rally. hardly mentioned today and yet if he lost, it would have been the biggest story in the country. >> from the art of the endorsement tweet to the art of the spin, positive llitifact, ks running in a deeply republican district and was considered by independent political analysts

to be the prohibitive favorite. he was not someone running in a coin flip race. we rate the statement false. coie we rate the statement false. ♪ we'll be right back. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. how far you travel is up to you. how comfortable you travel is up to us. fly emirates. fly better. rather than worry about how to pay for long-term care. brighthouse smartcare℠ is a hybrid life insurance and long-term care product. it protects your family while providing long-term care coverage, should you need it. so you can explore all the amazing things ahead. talk to your advisor about brighthouse smartcare. brighthouse financial. build for what's ahead℠

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david gura". this is up, i'm david gura. it's been 27 years since a sitting president has been defeated in a bid for re-election when george h.w.

bush lost to clinton. a big factor was ross perot. while the texas billionaire didn't win a single vote in the electoral college, he won 19% of the popular vote. president bush won 18 states. fast forward and president trump could face a third party challenge from justin amash. the gentleman from the michigan's 3rd congressional district. he gained notoriety for coming to his own conclusions about the mueller report. matt walsh has written about the prospects of an amash candidacy. why this could be so conscious convention is. >> donald trump beat hillary clinton by less than 11,000 votes in michigan. justin amash got more than 200,000 votes in his district, more than gary johnson, the libertarian party nominee received back then. he's been winning as a republican even though he's a libertarian with a small "l." he would peel republican votes because they're used to running

for him if he was to run in michigan. that's still a big if even though it's easy to look at his career since 2017 as one long prelude to libertarian party run. his pinned tweet is the washington's famous quote against faction. >> on your office door. this one. >> he told me in 2017 he looks forward to the two major parties dying. he's said and done these things for a while yet. that said, if you bet against third party candidateska, can you always win for the most part. until that moment you don't. you would have to ask yourself whether this is worth potential humiliation if you don't do very well and just the constant slings and arrows. the freedom caucus is going against him. he cofound odd the caucus. they might it be pushing. >> let me ask you how he fits into the republican party. >> he doesn't. >> how uneasy has that been? this is not the first time he's

criticized something related to the president. >> correct, but he's lost allies one by one. mark sanford was kicked out by trump and trump hugh mailade him on the way out the door. a lot of people in the freedom caucus who started out as limited government, we're going to crackdown the executive branch, they've turned nufr trump's biggest cheerleaders, mark mead does and jim jordan. there are more tea party people hef that were like amash. >> you studied the maps. your sense of how consequential this could be of justin amash in light of what happened over the last two weeks. >> i try not to be in the prediction business. of those three states that flipped for trump in 2016, michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania, michigan is the one most likely to flip back to democrats in 2020 regardless of what justin amash tries to do. look what happened in 2018.

state of michigan elected three women. allstate meld offices held by democratic women. two flipped republican districts. it's overwhelming democratic touchout in 2018. that was a midterm. so the notion that suddenly all those people who rushed out to the polls in michigan to vote for democratic women will sort off say i'm not going to do that this time doesn't make any sense. 171,000 votes separate add trump and hillary clinton income 2016. and gary johnson got 196,000. it's clear that it was a complete oneoff, that trump won that time. he was sub 50%s in popularity there. it's hard for me to see unless the democrats nominate completely unacceptable that president trump is in good shape. >> on the issue of the third party candidates in 2020, what you make of it. >> i think from a party perspective, i can say i'm always you know, kind of upset when people are like don't be the spoil other kind of thing.

no, we just need to do better as a party in terms of making our argument and enthussing folks to get out as voters. to your point, i think what's going to be interesting going into 2020 is not necessarily as much although it has a great impact on who the nominee will be, but more importantly will be who the electorate will in 2020. each year as we get to the presidential elections and talking about thatting issing will it be the traditional particularly primary voters and the new enthused young people and sort off progressive base. that completely changes can particularly in states like michigan where we're going to win and how we're going to win. >> thank you all very much for being here. beth fouhy, matt welsh. still ahead, the president on the world stage, what his upcoming trips will bring in the days and weeks to come. thank you. g in the days and weeks to come thank you. organics. organics. it's miracle-gro's next big thing.

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this is up. i'm david gura. what is five feet tall and weighs about 70 pounds? give up? it is the trophy president trump just presented a few hours ago to the winner of a sumo match. the president's state visit continues. there was dinner with shinzo abe, grilled chicken and steak with broccoli and carrots.

they also played a round of golf. ensconced? his hotel room, president trump fired off a few tweets including one that according to "the new york times" is sure to unnerve the japanese, the president dismissing the threat of north korea and contradict diagnose public comments from his national security adviser. north korea fired off some small weapons, he wrote, which disturbed some of my people likely a references to john bolton. the president went on to say he and kim jong-un joked about joe bidan who he called a swamp man. with the president overseas, iran lashed out at the united states overnight over a weapons deal with saudi arabia brokered without congressional approval and the deployment of 1500 troops to the middle east. in a statement, an adviser to iran's military said if they commit account slightest stupidity, we will send these ships to the bottom of the sea

using two missiles or two new secret weapons. president trump flew 14 hours to japan for this four-day trip and he will spend a lot of time in the air over the next few weeks after he has an audience with the brand-new emperor, he flies back to washington. then another state visit to ireland where he will stay at one of his golf resort anderson later to france for a d-day anniversary and another trip to japan for the g-20 and presumably another trip to france. elliott williams here with us in new york along with virginia heffernan, the host of trump cast on slate, tim o'brien, editor of bloomberg opinion and rsh professor of political science at fordham. the president alone in a hotel. it's not hard to picture the scene if you've seen the movie with bill murray trying to figure out what to do with his time. firing these things off and they

have more consequence when is a president is traveling overseas. >> it's a president not in charge of his own emotions other than what's right in front of him. trump add mires dictators. we have a president hose voiced are admiration for their ability to do whatever they want which portrays his own motivations. i think the larger issue be his efforts to forge the diplomatic alliance with kim have failed. he's now put the united states' foreign policy and credibility on the line saying that engaging with kim in the way he has over the last 18 months or so would he produce benefits. they clearly haven't. kim is now thumbing-nose at the united states and he's doing it on the eve of the president visiting japan. trump doesn't want to acknowledge that. i think the third thing going on here is that he and john bolton are at odds with each other. trump wants tonight present a

muscular foreign policy. but at his heart of hearts he doesn't want to engage in military conflict. so he likes having macho people around him but when push comes to shove, he ends up at prospurposes. >> i've traveled with other administrations. everyone in lock step. john bolton made this trip aheaded to tokyo. bolton says that north koreaing issing in violation of the u.n. resolutions. the president goes against that. that is so astonishing and now so regular with this administration. >> he does not respect the president. we have had decades of foreign policy expert who have tried to consistently plot out a long-term plan for global security and global safety. and this president is just a people person. so i like a dictator and we'll hang out. what's so frustrating though is because he does not respect the will of law because we know that he barely respects the

constitution,ings in an international sphere though, this is incredibly dangerous because we don't just have conversations with north korea and japan and sort of china in the mix, as well. now we're also having you know endeavors with iran and saudi arabia which now makes it a much more dangerous situation and we have seen what happens nef past wars when the united states had decides that they want to flex their political muscle. right? millions of people end up dead. >> there you go. virginia, i'm curious about this friendship and yes, world leaders have friendships with one another. they've talked i think 40 times stins donald trump was elected. you have to feel sort of sad for shinzo abe. a few questions why is president trump has done this trip in light of all the travel over the next few months including another trip to japan. the objective of getting a trade deal ham an ordinary out, the real threat from north korea

that the president seems content to push aside or laugh about even. >> i don't think he knows north korea is a threat to japan. abe, it's interesting sort of a lesson for lindsey graham, truckalers and sycophants like abe has been to be trump almost unaccountably don't do as well as the putins and kims of the world who talk tough to him. this is a guy so weak on national security. i mean we're still in the wake of the mueller report. that was only last weekend that justin amash wrote his threat advocating for impeachment. there are two volumes to that report. first is about trump's hospitalability let's call it that to foreign interference, to russians. yesterday morning we having this tweet that's essentially a north korea, are you listening enter near 2020. >> the curious question at the end. >> is he sending a signal to me? that was a lot.

i think there was michael cohen talked a little bit bbs trump sending a signal to putin with some of the things he said. he was clearly sending a signal to putin with russia are you listening. he's talking about his political opponent biden one more time moving toward a kind of lock him up thing that he's going to doing in cag hoots with north korea. every day, something's newly appalling. this was staggering i thought. >> speak to the lack of focus. he sent out another tweet about motorcycle thunder what does that say to you? he might see the them all lined up as the same thing. this one been north korea and biden has wider ramifications. to him a tweet is a tweet. >> each individual crisis is being treated as the thing on his mind at any given day. isn't part of a broader strategy i think of working with foreign policy professionals and people who think about these issues. john bolton for instance.

regardless of one's views of john bolton's politics or approach to foreign policy, he's still a foreign policy expert. what we've seen across are the president's relationships you know with the foreign policy community, with the legal community, we'll talk about that later in the show, it's more of the same. and it's goinging it alone based on gut rather than experience or any expertise. >> what's john bolton doing, tim? >> i mean, yeah, you look at him and what's happened over the last few weeks with iran, venezuela, now north korea. why is he going through with this? why do people like him still think this is an administration to join in perhaps it's the president is as hospitable as virginia said? what's the reason for doing it? >> he clearly likes being approximate to power. he was excommunicated to a certain dprg right thinking

conservatives even who thought of him as sort of a mad dog who could be unreliable around policy making and executing policy. this gave him a chance to come in from the cold. trump opened the door to him because i think he wanted to present strength and purpose in the wake after mattis's departure and i think what he's wound up with somebody he can't really control. i don't think they like each other. bolton is there i think because of sheldon adelson. it's not going to be easy for trump to pull him out of the administration. ivanka and jared do not like him. that's usually the kiss of death. he still has political money behind him. and it's not going to be easy for trump to push him aside. but he's not happy. he's not happy with what happened in venezuela, with what's been push to the brinking in iran and now the situation in north korea. >> lastly to you, it used to be in past administrations a trip liking this would go having to having deliverables at the end. it would be a failure if the

leader of the free world didn't come back to washington with some sort of deal. there's going to be no trade deal till july at the earliest. this many isn't the first trip where that's happened. the hanoi summit. he takes all the foreign trips and there's bluster and nothing in hand when he comes back to the white house. >> isn't that the entire trump presidency? it's a lot of bombastic talk. he has the great foreign policy expertz of jared and ivanka. he also wants to be the first president to meet the new emperor. >> he's been told he wants to be that. that's what's so curious about that. he doesn't quite get what's happening. > he at a certain point in time, this is be president is the toddler in the highchair and throws cheerios on the floor to see how quickly we pick them up. the cheerios are north korea, iran, our economy. welcome to infrastructure week. the thing is we have to respond to him to a certain extent bup

where are the adults in the room? i think going back to your point, tim, people like john bolton as much as i disagree with him, they doing respect their occupations and their larger agendas but trump hasn't been able to hire the best people. self-respecting republicans unfortunately they're remaining quiet but aren't going into the administration. he's gone through so many people because i think they want to come into the white house to do something and then they realize i am dealing with someone who is alsofully ignorant and sort of excited about the ignorance of not learning the position and the global sphere that he sits at the front of. >> betrothing the best people than hiring them. the president has taken congressional stonewalling to unprecedented levels. he is testing the constitution and the republic like never before and why some fear it may not recover. e never before and why some fear it may not recover. what's up with your... partner?

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it would mean the world to them, and they will love you forever. >> why are you asking don mcgahn to. >> well, as i understand it, they're doing that for office of the presidency for future presidents. i think it's a very important precedent, and the attorneys say that they're not doing that for me. they're doing that for the office of the president. so we're talking about the future. >> that's president trump on may 20th defending his decision to ask form ser white house council don mcgahn not to testify. president trump saying he made the move to protect future

presidents not himself and to protect the presidency, capital t, capital p. we've heard the same defense flps attorney general william barr who are said "at every gave juncture is the presidency has done what it's supposed to do which is to provide leadership and direction. if you destroy the presidency and make it can an errand boy for congress, we'll be a more divide add nation. tim it, you wrote a great column about this moment. let's decide what kind of presidency we want the country to have in the future just as the president did monday evening. is it the president i he and william barr want or does it remain largely within the boundaries in the constitution that offers a rich history of congressional oversight and separation of powers? >> this debate goes back to george w. bush recently the power of the executive. how is this time different?

>> what's different now is you have someone inhabiting the oval office who i don't think ob deserves did the kind of institution is support he's getting for the sort of extreme authority across a lot of policy areas, specifically around the separation of powers. we're seeing this in spades right now in trump's relationship with the congress. you have this epic confrontation over a core constitutional value to me which is the separation of powers. and i think when you hear trump talking about the future of the presidency or i'm thinking about people coming after me, this is not someones who ever cared about the majesty of the office or his historical legacy. he does have bill barr behind him like the vent trilloquist dummy putting these thoughts in his head so he rolls it out whenever it's convenient. if he's saying congress is trying to get a political adviser come in for public

testimony violates the office of the presidency which in some ways it does, the president should be able to be have unfettered counsel. that's a reasonable argument to make. i will drop that however, when you go to the next stage of that which should congress get access to the president's financial records so they have a better understanding of what forces might be at work in the oval office. that is well within the congress' mandate. that's what you seer. >> georgia, nothing surprise this filtered down to agencies within the government. the back and forth between congress and the treasury secretary. he's making this argument about the presidency, as well with protecting tax records. >> i was disappointed that don mcgahn didn't testify anyway. he doesn't answer to the president anymore. this is a subpoena. i mean, i will recommend to all viewers tim's article on it. the only thing i would add is first of all, i hate this thing of barr saying errand boy to the congress because he's in that

like wolfpack dominance speech which is not -- he's not talking even about coequal powerses or accountability. the way to make the office of the presidency durable so this nation can endure senior to withstand it to the tests that are you know the tests brought to it by the coequal branch of the legislature. it goes without saying and it is bewidering he won't even pay lip service to. nixon used to say the people have a right to examine my taxes. trump doesn't even say that. >> the errand boy is instructive about a big notion of what the relationship between the branches are. if you look, even an the structure of the constitution, article 1 is congress. it was deliberate they made congress sort of the first branch. >> it's not just alphabetical. >> the house of representatives. buff is a deliberate choice. we think today of the president as the head of state of course. but because the president is

elected across the country and so on, but congress is the directly elected branch of government that's closer to the people even the senate and so on. that was. >> deliberate. >> deliberate choice by congress. so this idea that the president is somehow bigger and they're just not going coequal is sort of being fueled by trump and an attorney generals who had had the view for past 30 some years. >> it's also fueled by members of congress and unfortunately, and this is why it's not just about trump and not just about his administration. it's about republicans in congress who know what their job is. and they are -- we have a president who has never been a public servant and as much as democrats may have disliked george w. bush, he's third generation public servant, he knew how to work with the legislature in his state. trump didn't even have a board of directors. he has never reported to anyone. his mind-set is such that executive equals king equals

dictate area. if we don't have republicans in congress say that is not your job, that is not the intent of the framers and the constitution and we have to stop it, this is part of the problem. it's not just trump weakening the constitution and the three banks of government as are laid out clearly in federalist 51. it's the republicans in the house and senate especially mitch mcconnell making sure that we are eroding the fundamental principles of democracy in this nation. >> there's a line in than william barr article where he says the rules have changed with respect to donald trump and the way congress treats him. the rules haven't changes. this is the constitutional order that existed for what, 229 years or whatever since the constitution was ratified. nothing's changed. >> barr's done this before. right? when the iran contra investigation was afoot and george h.w. bush was president, barr gaveham a strategy for putting that investigation to rest. and he did not like the fact that can george h.w. bush was being scrutinized any more than

he likes it with trump. it's about barr's view of an imperial presidency. >> when you layer the president attacking the judiciary as we've seen also, this individual is an obama judge this person is out to get me, he's laying a predicate for defying a court order. based on the rhetoric from the president right now, what would stop the president if he gets a bad order on the tax returns? the supreme court mate just say go back down there. i'm not going to turn them over. >> one branch to the next. the first democratic debate is one month away. where the 2020 contenders are and what they're saying. plus how house democrats are shaping their message on the campaign trail. rats are shaping their message tonhe campaign trail ♪

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welcome back to "up." it is a holiday weekend and the democratic candidates are traversing the country each making his or her case to vote persons democratic voters were issued talking points before they departed for the holiday recess. those running for president are they going to adhere to the marching orders? ali vitale is in iowa this morning. help us understand how this messaging arm works.

we saw the press conference nancy at the pel gave last week. achievements the democratics could talk. how closely are they talking as you listen to candidates on the trail? >> we have had this conversation before while we talk about the divide what happens in washington and on the campaign trail. as much as i'm out here, the conversation is not closely adhering to mueller and barr and investigations. it more closely adheres to what are the issues that affect real americans in their day-to-day lives. so i think the lesson for democrats as we've talked about is in 2018 what helps them win in the house was focusing on health care. to me the lesson there was twofold. as i uncovered senate races, i saw republicans even those on a supreme court case trying to roll back coverage were saying they supports pre-existing conditions. they were able to be message tnls without having to back it up. as democrats go forward having that conversation, it's incumbent upon them to make the

case that republicans may say they're for pre-existing conditions but haven't yet produced a plan that shows that. so democrats focusing on health care on the campaign trail because that is really where most of the voter focus is, health care, economics, tax cuts, not so much on mueller. though i will say you've seen several of the senators and candidates focusing on if now is the time to begin impeachment proceedings. elizabeth warren came early with that, kamala harris is one of the latest coming up with that. something they go are starting to talk about in response to questions from reporters. >> christina, let me ask you about the impeachment issue and mueller issue. nancy pelosi making her defense before reporters saying this is why i'm going about this. in light of what ali is saying there, i wonder if there's overthinking going on. this is a week of tro of two tracks where the president re-jebed one versus another. democrats continue to talk abouting what they want to do

and the impeachment conversation could happen and maybe they're overthinking the amount to which that col overshadow the campaign trail. >> vote others vote with the pocketbook issues. health care is very important. if we think about iowa, new hampshire and south carolina, those voters want to know what's going on with jobs, what's going on with the economy and by the economy, i mean jobs in my pocket. and also health care because if the republicans repeal it, then what happens. the interesting thing is so many republicans are benefiting exponentially from obamacare but don't either want to call it that or don't fully understand their racial identity and what's going into the health care act. that's a different conversation for a different show. but i think it is smart of the democrats to have talking points but i do think that each person going back to their home district as tip o'neill said all politics is local, they have to understand some districts want to know, what is going on, are

you going to push for him to leave so the democrats have to do two things at once. for those who is want to talk about impeachment, they have to have a party line. we've not gotten there yet to figure out the best track. the shadow of the '90s is what happened to the republicans after the clinton impeachment. a lot of voters want to know financially this man is tweeting erratically. we're talking tariffs and possibly going to is interventions. mike pence this past weekend telling west point graduates we will be going into sort sort of interaction, combat interaction in their lifetime. sometime soon. that also costs money as we know. so i think a lot of voters are very confused as to what is going on in d.c. and how will it affect them and their lives and families especially economically. >> abc's this week this morning while we were on air, one of my producers was listening. listen to what the mayor of south bend had to say about

impeachment. >> what's interesting is that the case for impeachment is being made most emphatically by the president himself. it seems like every day or two, there is another affront to the rule of law. i'm trying to be respectful of the fact that the best thing i can do to get us a new president is to win the nomination and defeat the president who is there. >> tim o'brien, the president's doing this implicitly and explicitly. this peter baker column about the week that was and we were talking about before the show. he said you look back at an president clinton. he didn't want to talk about impeachment at all. this is not something he wanted to talking about to the issue of the president talking about impeachment all the time. >> that's right. >> the i word. >> yeah. bill clinton. >> infrastructure? >> that was wednesday. that was wednesday. >> you know, clinton understood the implications after impeachment. he was a lawyer. his wife had worked on the watergate investigation. he had a deep understanding of

how washington works. donald trump doesn't see disasters rolling towards him until they're right at his feet. however much he says that he welcomes impeachment and it would be good for him, at the ed 69 day, it could be a political disaster for the democrats but it will not be good for donald trump. the congress would get empowered through an impeachment process to go after his records and his history with much more force behind them than they can now. i think that would be a nightmare for him. i don't think he realizes it. >> that's the centralization we keep hearing about. if there weit would be centrali. >> it becomes a judicial proceeding. it becomes easier. maybe this is part of what's going on with the president. because he won't be removed from office and right now the republicans and the senate will not reit move him from office. impeachment puts an after the risk by his name in the president's view.

the question is the it emboldening him or what. the case not being made by the house democrats now is sort of is there a deliberate plan or approach. i think people are sort of hearing the speaker refer to the president saying he's engaged in a cover-up and so on. but we need to keep doing oversight or whatever. it's not clear that one is linked to the other. >> i think democrats have done a bad job of messaging what mueller was looking at. barr won the early rounds. barr framed the message. you're still seeing on the campaign trail democrats aren't clearly laying out for vote remembers what's happening. > moreover even if the mueller report didn't find contractity, there's still impeachment conduct looking at section 2 alone setting an side section 1 and that's the more troubling conduct. it's impeachmentable conduct. there are two entitieses with different mandates. even if you can't charge him

criminally, it's potentially impeachment. it's heady and esoteric and the public quite getting -- >> virginia? >> i'm snot not sure it doesn't affect our lives the impeachment questions because when elizabeth warren who has advocated impeachment openly went to west virginia to talk to a bunch of red hats and they came around to her, she is is her case across the board is confrontations with abuses of power. and you know, we see part of the reason than he's so afraid of his finances coming out, you'll really be able to see how the rich and how the overlords and how the people who consider themselves above the law have been living. that is something i think people experience at every level of their lives and that this is al gore cal for someone who has taken advantage of them and needs to be held to account. >> the ali, you might have been in the room with the red hats. you were in west virginia when she had the conversations about opioids. speaking about her ability as you've been following her the last few weeks to sway over

voters who might not have been historically democrats or leaning democrats before >> look, we'll see if that bears out but clearly she's willing to physically go there and make the case. that swinging that included west virginia also included ohio. she talked about opioids. larger message is about tackling corruption and make government work for people who don't feel it's working for them right now. it's reminiscent when donald trump made the argument that government in washington wasn't working for you. democrats have to try to reaproppate the message as they go after the president, yeah on the impeachment front but definitely on the economic front. up ahead, he referred to joe biden as low iq. now his press secretary sarah huckabee sanders is taking the fight to the democratic front-runner head on. what she said just a few moments ago. t-runner head on what she said just a few moments ago. billions of mouths.

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we were talking about the president this morning, talking about joe biden on twitter. sarah huckabee sanders was on "meet the press" with chuck todd talking about trump's fascination with the former vice president, his concerns about him going into the election. let's take a listen to what she had to say to my colleague chuck todd. >> the president doesn't need somebody else to give him an assessment of joe biden. he's given his own assessment a number of times. you've seen it, i'm sure you've covered it on your program.

the president watched him and his administrationings with president obama failed for eight years. he's come in in two and a half. he's cleaned up a lot of messes left behind. we shouldn't even be in the position we're in to have to deal with north korea at the level we are. if they had done their job in the first place. that we're seeing moment after moment and relationship after relationship that the previous administration did nothing. they failed with iran. they failed with north korea. they failed on trade and we finally have a president that's being tough with these countries. we've put tougher sanctions on north korea than the obama administration ever did. but at the same time, the president wants to develop that relationship and he wants to actually get something done. he doesn't want to talk in pretty rit rihetoric. china is negotiating for better deals on trade. for the first time we're seeing iran's economy crumbling. nobody's been tougher on russia than this president.

if anybody needs help with an assessment it's joe biden and whether or not he should be trying to get an upgrade when you nailed to do the job in the number two spot. >> the press secretary has not held a press briefing for 76 days. let's stick with this joe biden xn fascination. a challenge for joe biden. we can talk more about his candidacy in a moment. is moving us past this moment while being pulled back or as we look back where he's been, this is something that i think we've seen the president exploit this morning with this tweet. >> right. well, it's a complex conversation that we're having because on the one hand, there are lots of americans who want to see joe biden at the top of the ticket. there are many americans especially democrats who think that his time has passed, he's been a great public servant and we need to look to future leadership. we also know that the obama presidency affects this president in a very visceral way. he's obsessed with obama. and e "rgb" o, he will be

obsessed with joe biden and their accomplishments. sarah sanders can lie through her teeth every single day. however, the facts are thus. joe biden and barack obama moved the country forward economically, we had sort of peace days. these are things that donald trump has not done and never will be able to do. that being said, some democrats worry that because trump's obsession with obama/biden is so intense, that and he has no shame, their interaction on the campaign trail will be essentially biden who's already shown he wants to do tough talk bullying and it will be essentially this war of these two older men who say who is the toughest for america whereas many democrats want a different type of conversation. you know, possibly an elizabeth warren, kamala harris.

this is why pete bouttigieg is doing so well. dealing with bully is facts, it's methodical and exposing the bully for who he is. for trump that seems easy if you stick to the script. i don't know if joe biden has the discipline to do that. we're already seeing sort of trump laying these traps and you know, various democrats -- >> do you agree with that? are you worried swamp man versus tariff man? >> swamp man versus tariff man, the worst comic book ever. it does invite the question of how will relitigating the obama years play in 2020. maybe it will work out well. >> it's a nice way not to have a to lit gatt the last two or three years. >> it's a distraction president the first time has ever been tough on china and obama wasn't? this whole tariff question we should talk about -- >> you're talking about the trade squabble. >> this little dustup.

when he's in japan, he should ask what these tariffs will do to the auto industry and how they feel the japanese automakers. it is mind boggling where the president seems to have taken the modern republican party of today and they're going along with it, where reagan in honor of whom i've worn etan suit today. >> i've seen the twitter feedback on that. >> twitter is not happy with the obama tan suit. what would ronald reagan say about this conduct toward china or this conduct toward economic or north korea on down. it's sort of what we've been talking about today, but it is very striking how much i guess republicans in congress are complicity in the president's rhetoric. >> free market republicans where you've got a president who is interfering with the free flow of trade and then to make up for the down side of that is subcicy diesing farmers to the tune of $16 billion. if brp ever did that, he would have been branded a socialist by

classic conservative republicans and they're keeping their mouths shut with trump. >> maybe it's okay. maybe this is just where the republican party goes from now and it becomes a purely populist or purely not about free markets anymore. maybe that's the realignment. maybe we're just realiving the role of the presidency now. that's just what the tragic result of the trump years have been. i don't know. it is remarkable to see what he -- where he has even if he hasn't taken the party there, the fact that them are so unwilling to challenge him on it. >> i mean, that is what's so insidious and disgusting to me. you have republicans just like the smash and grab presidency. everyone's out to either get money or the policies they want. we're seeing this in states across the country. we're ripping out ovaries and changing abortion policy. grabbing whatever they can while they have this kind of empty vessel which is the president. and so i can't tell if people are riding with this president because they want to cash in now

and later financial sense, which is very real but also in a policy sense because they are willing to just let this man say and do things that never we had to stop playing the what if obama did game. the third week of the administration. if not the first week. >> thank you for giving us the reagan version of that. >> up next the democratic fight for the african-american vote and what the 2020 contenders are doing to bring those voters into the democratic camp. re doing to bring those voters into the democratic camp.

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welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. we're going to focus on the importance of the white working class for the democrats. for the party to win it needs support of african-americans. senator elizabeth warren tells adam harris "race matters and we need to face it. adams have been looking at how candidatescracy america's continuing legacy of racial discrimination. it's a great piece. talk the way these candidates are not doing outreach but talking about this issue in a broader context. >> yeah, so as you mentioned when i spoke with senator warren, she told me race matters and we need to face it. it's about more than showing up showing up once or twice and saying yes, we need to address

that is because that's something black voters have heard time and time again. this outreach is proposing some of these systemic fixes to address the legacy of discrimination. essentially what you've seen over the last couple weeks, you have senator bernie sanders who has proposed this thurgood marshall education plan, senator warren who has this robust policy infrastructure that she's built out, whether that's housing discrimination, whether that's discrimination in higher education, where she's got this $50 billion plan to fund historical black colleges and minorities-serving institutions. really honing in on this systemic discrimination and really addressing it in a substantive way. >> kristina, i read this piece and thought about you, we have had conversations like this, you've raise this had point before. i want to get your impressions of this as well whether it's senator warren introducing more plans, policies as she's been doing, the seriousness with which the candidates have been taking this. >> i think it's very important

for elizabeth warren to have these conversations because as adam and i talked about earlier, black millennials are going to be the influencers in the community, with their parents and grandparents. joe biden has a built in credibility base with older black americans because of his eight years of loyalty to barack obama, but it will be -- if elizabeth warren can capture black millennials with a plan, right, with a series of plans, economic and otherwise, and a fundamental understanding of some of the really inequities, the obama strategy of let me just try to lift all boats clearly did not work. that's not the way the country has ever been set up with a history of white supremacy and anti-black racism. it will be easier for younger black people to convince their parents and grandparents to move over from biden to someone like elizabeth warren who does have substantive policies or maybe someone like kamala harris even though we know it's harder for black elected and black candidates to talk about plaque issues because white voters tend to think they will be elected

for just blacks. it will be easier for black millennials to move their parents over than it will be for black grandparents and black parents to convince their younger children to go from elizabeth warren over to joe biden. >> adam, i want to get your impression of the resonance of this. i look at the reporting about senator warren, for instance, a few weeks back, she's making more trips to south carolina, this is where you need to go if you want to win the black vote in the u.s. speak to the resonance of these policy proposals. you mentioned senator sanders' proposals, senator warren's as well. how are they playing for lack of a better word? >> if you look at twitter and of course twitter is not the perfect -- >> unscientific but we will take it. >> exactly. but if you're looking at how black voters are talking about some of these policy proposals, they are very interested in the fact that candidates are laying out specific plans. as i mentioned, you know, if you're thinking about this historical from 2016 to 2008 you've heard time and again this rhetoric about we need to

address this legacy of discrimination, but kind of putting forward subs -- substantive policies, thinking about reparations, thinking about housing discrimination and red lining and the continuing effect that's had on black and brown people across the country, if you're thinking about that, that's something that as practically resonate with black voters. >> the myth of the wide working class voter is overstated. virginia, it's a trope, something we hear time and time again every time one of these cycles rolls around. >> yeah, you know, there is this meme of the charlottesville marchers and it says it's economic anxiety, right? the idea that economic anxiety or that the white working class which are envisioned never as working in retail, never as working in any of the actual sectors that people work in, but working this coal. i mean, i think they are phantom and phantom that both sides -- all of us kind of believe in and scare ourselves with. >> i don't.

>> we are beholden to that. >> i don't believe them at all. that's why i said earlier that's why i think de blasio is nuanced between working class and working people is really interesting. i don't think if he will make a debate stage but there is a fundamental difference. it's not 1930. we talk about coal workers like they're 80% of the base. they're not. whereas de blasio talking about working people to me is interesting, i will see if others sort of candidates adopt that rhetoric because working people implies nurses, doctors, teachers, businessmen. >> working families, i don't know why we don't hear that any more. that suggests single mothers like myself who are keeping it together and i think a lot of people see themselves in that -- the working class is also always a man. that's why we never talk about retail. >> domestics, whatever. >> domestics. that sector has been slashed by 70%. they went for hillary. i mean, that's just a small thing, but i don't want to keep going for elizabeth warren but she really has -- first of all,

who gets an organic slogan i have a plan that comes from everybody else, gentle parody but also powerful, and the fact that she's addressing, you know, education up into and including student debt and she really -- i mean, she is not talking about reparations, she is not talking about we really need to sit down and have intersectional conversations she's talking about how economically to help black americans. >> and also note the senate seat once held by jeff sessions is now held by a democrat because of black people, let's be blunt -- >> black women. black women. >> that was my next sentence. let's be clear. but in particular black women. the democrats almost had the governorship in georgia because of black people but particularly because of black women and that's going to keep happening certainly across the south but across the electorate. african-american voters, black voters, are certainly the issues that are relevant to african-americans are -- people are catching up to the times, i go he is. >> black voters are the canaries

in the coal mine. >> adam harris, thank you very much. appreciate the article. adam harris joining us from the atlantic in washington, d.c. i'd like to thank my panelists in new york as well. coming up at the top of the next hour on "a.m. joy," a democratic member of congress will try to explain to joy why donald trump should not be impeached. impeached. should not be cologuard: colon cancer screening for people 50 and older at average risk. honey have you seen my glasses? i've always had a knack for finding things... colon cancer, to be exact. and i find it noninvasively... no need for time off or special prep. it all starts here... you collect your sample, and cologuard uses the dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers. you can always count on me to know where to look. oh, i found them! i can do this test now! ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. covered by medicare and most major insurers.

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if the kinds of abuses that this president has committed are not impeachable, what would be? >> impeachment is coming. the hearings that are happening now that are driving democrats crazy because they -- we want impeachment proceedings now. well, they're kind of actually already happening. >> the fact is this is going to be a voting issue in 2020 and the people responsible for educating the electorate about why we need to impeach this president, if they believe that, are the people who are saying, we don't know what to do. constitutional crisis, but infrastructure. good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." to impeach or not to impeach, that is the question. we focused our entire show on it yesterday, the pros, cons, and potential consequences. so what should democrats do? begin impeachment proceedings against donald trump now or wait until the