hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york with donald trump at peak over house investigations, ongoing criminal probes stemming from the mueller investigation and legal setbacks possibly forcing his financial records into view. with the democratic led investigations into his efforts to obstruct the russia investigation increasingly leading to discussions about whether his conduct amounts to high crimes and misdemeanors, donald trump is trigger. and he has the upper hand to

stonewall each and every russia probe. in two separate rulings, the judges have ruled the white house to turn over documents to congress. meaning we're the closest we've been to donald trump's tax returns. and a judge in michael flynn's case, a judge has ordered the release of never before seen evidence including transcripts of a voice mail, and the phone call that started it all, a conversation between russian ambassador sergey kislyak and mike live flynn, which flynn la lied about. all of this information withheld by trump's administration because they don't want trump's records or any evidence in the underlying mueller investigation turned over to congress. and it's that evidence that could help us get to the bottom of one of the biggest questions

of robert mueller's report, why so many lies about so many russians by donald trump and the people close to him. that's where we start today with our favorite reporters and friends. with us heidi and carol lee. and kimberly atkins. plus former federal prosecutor paul butler joins us from washington. let me start with this mike flynn ruling. mike flynn i think a lot of people stopped paying attention to, he pleaded guilty to lying in the early days of the trump administration. he's still on our radar because he hasn't been sentenced yet. a judge putting out an order saying by the end of may, i understand that could get pushed, we'll have access to possibly a transcript and maybe even a recording of a call

between the president's lawyer, john dowd and mike flynn, where a phone call might have been discussed and some of that underlying collusion-y evidence between sergey kislyak and mike flynn. >> this is the video version of the mueller report. most people haven't read those 400 pages that outline those those ten episodes of obstruction of justice. but people will tune in to a congressional hearing or listen to a recording of a telephone call, especially an incriminating one like this. just like if mueller testifies, people will get to see on tv the guy that looks like the head prosecutor from law & order and has the creditability. it gives the allegations a lot more substance and weight. there's something about hearing and seeing that's different than reading. any prosecutor knows that. >> carol, a former national

security official described the mueller report to me in terms of a road map in terms of a screenplay for congress. chris christie, corey lewandowski was involved in that flash point around the unrecusal. which chuck rosenberg says isn't a thing to unrecuse. there's so many anecdotes that as paul blutler is saying that the democrats can bring them to life to produce them for television, they might have a better handle on how far he went to try to obstruct justice. >> that's not what they decided for now their strategy is going to be, and it's left some democrats questioning whether they should be taking a different tact. whether it's smart to get down in the weeds with the president

in terms of a whole host of other issues and to focus so much on specifically robert mueller and the specific underlying evidence that packed up the mueller report and these kind of -- what some would say are in the weeds sorts of things, rather than as you say bring these characters to life who can far -- a far better way if your agenda is to put pressure on the president and to try to bring to life what happened in the mueller report, that's a far better way in some people's view of doing it than just letters, subpoenas, those sorts of things that we've seen so far. i don't know that they'll switch tactics at this point because they seem to have a clear path but there is increasing chatter around the edges about whether or not they should. >> they did issue subpoenas for hope hicks, andy donaldson, she was the chief of staff to former white house counsel, don mcghan, she took notes, "the washington post" had a story about how

annie donaldson's notes could be the nixon's tapes of the mueller report. this does seem to hinge around some vehicle, tactic to bring this into people's living rooms. and the person who seems to get that is donald trump. donald trump's exertion of privilege -- i doubt he's read the whole report. it seems to have as much to do with keeping that television hearing drama from coming to pass as anything. >> donald trump knows television, the power of images. he was in show business for a number of years, prior to that, real estate developer new the use of a stunt to get press attention, he knows the power of that. your point is exactly right. i was in vietnam with him this february, and michael cohen's appearance for congress upstaged a summit with kim jong-un. that was what people cared about. it was so different than reading the words or reading the testimony. it was cohen taking the oath, sitting in front of congress and delivering, in his own words

what the president asked him to do. cohen, of course, has quite a bit of credibility issues and in prison. but a robert mueller there doesn't have the issues. partisans on the right will paint him as someone leading a witch hunt to get the president. but for most americans he's someone who's given his life to the country, veteran, and the president is on this idea as well according to our reporting, he hasn't spoken in two years. it will be so captivating for americans to hear robert mueller speak and go through this. mueller is such an institutionalist, were he to testify, i don't think people would expect he set a flame thrower to the justice department at all, but to hear him describe what his investigation found will hit home for a lot of americans and donald trump doesn't want that to happen. >> the subplots are around the flash points in the on

obstruction investigation and sound mob like. christie's testimony is in the footnotes, he didn't say remove as attorney general william barr testified before congress. he said fire. and chris christie you would have to hope would testify truthfully. corey lewandowski called him over fourth of july weekend, it's in the footnotes. he wanted to fire him comey style. there are other characters, it may be season two, season three extras, but there are other characters who if compelled to testify before congress could help tell that story as well. >> right. they may not have the creditability or star power that robert mueller would have. >> let's hope not. >> but there are americans that would be interested to hear their stories and what they have to say. even if they're not outlying criminal behavior, the mob one is unseemly, it's politically

damaging to the president, they're well aware of that, that's why they've adopted the tactics of say no, it's stonewall up andon down to prevent these things from happening. >> in order to be successful and have all the witnesses speak freely, there has to be a baseline, and this is what nancy pelosi is trying to establish right now, the baseline is full access to the mueller report and mueller himself. because we don't have some of the most basic questions answered, including why didn't you bring charges on obstruction, answer most likely because you can't indict a sitting president, i left that for you congress to pursue potentially through an impeachment inquiry. whatever other information he chooses not to discuss, you have a big whopper that comes out there at the top and you're able to bring in, draw in all of these other characters, but if they start doing that, start going down that road, i think they feel they lose their

leverage and starting out with bringing in mueller and establishing that they have every right to the full mueller report because it has been so distorted -- >> by barr. >> -- by barr, in terms of saying no collusion, no obstruction, which is the opposite of what the report says. >> i want to ask you about the legal victories because whenever you have success it emboldens the path you've charted and better or worse, the legal victories around the president's financial records gaining access to the accounting firm possibly the deutsche records. >> i think you're right. this is where it's been bearing fruit. you have the legal cases that you talked about, the uncovered irs internal legal memo that basically threw water on this idea that secretary mnuchin cannot produce the tax returns, it says he has to absent a claim

of executive privilege, which the president doesn't have, tax returns before his presidency could not be privilege. you have new york state about to pass a law that would require disclosure of his state tax returns which would match his federal ones, we would think, pretty closely. he's losing on this -- this attempt to try to keep these documents quiet and it's not just the congress, it is p even his own administration that is putting him on the losing side of these arguments. i think that's one of many reasons we have seen him increasingly agitated, combative with democrats because he's not on the winning side of this. >> this is just for now, right? that's the thing about these. you can get led into a false sense of this is going to work, this is a great strategy, look at us, we're so successful. and they don't know. i think the risk in not taking the more aggressive tact that you were talking about, bringing people who aren't subject to privilege to testify, the whole

game is against time. so if you pursue the court route and, you know, you get -- you're initially winning, there's a point you get too far and you can't switch and do the other thing that might have worked better. >> that's a great point because let's say they start getting the information in like july and you start bringing in witnesses, you're going to be right up against the election and trump can turn that around on them and say you're pursuing me for the ultimate political gain of impeachment right before my election. that's a good point that you might want to consider starting things earlier to get that process started. >> to the point paul butler how many assistance the sitting attorney general has given this president. what he did in terms of branding robert mueller's 22-month investigation as reaching a

conclusion occlusin koe lewis a obstruction is a lie. no matter your political ideology, you should want to know what mueller discovered. 140 contacts. here's mccabe. >> wherever you stand or sit on the political spectrum, put that aside. have we ever had an administration that had this volume of connections with our most formidable adversary and gone to such extents to cover those up. these are things that prompt questions in investigators' minds. why? why is this this? why would the president try to potentially obstruct justice? and impact our investigation into russia? why are the people around him in key positions lying about contacts with russians. these need to be investigated. >> paul butler we don't have an

answer to any of those logical well-reasoned whys. >> director mccabe is right that the attorney general should want to know if he's focussed on national security or the rule of law or the integrity of our electoral process, if on the other hand he's mainly concerned with defending donald trump like he's a defense attorney, then he probably doesn't want to know. unfortunately when he look at the attorney general's recent actions there's no reason to have confidence in his ability to represent the united states as opposed to the president. just with this incident with the tax returns, the -- the justice department wrote a memo that said that the -- that the treasury department doesn't have to turn over the tax returns. that's in direct conflict with a memo that we now know a treasury department employee wrote that said that the treasury secretary doesn't have a choice. he must turn over those records.

so this is about a career employee of the treasury department versus barr's partisan, political department of justice. as a former federal prosecutor who worked for the department of justice, i'm embarrassed about this attorney general. >> if you go out and unpack the damage barr did to the actual letter of the mueller report, it really justifies closer scrutiny, this is what the mueller report said on obstruction. it says this, the incidents of obstruction were carried out through one on one meetings in which the president sought to use his official power outside of usual channels, viewing the acts collectively can help to illuminate their significance. mueller also makes clear that perhaps congress should be the one to determine how that should be handled with this. with respect to whether the president can be found to have obstructed justice by exercising his powers under article ii of

the constitution, we concluded congress has authority to prohibit corrupt use of his authority in order to protect the integrity of the administration of justice. what are they waiting for? >> he didn't expect the attorney general to step in first and make the declaration there was no obstruction of justice that he and the deputy attorney general did together. there does seem -- >> let me add that too for our viewers. this was barr's spin on this, i would call it a lie, but you can call it what you want. barr said the report sets out evidence on both sides of the question -- it does not. it only sets out evidence on the side that he obstructed justice. and leaves unresolved what the special counsel's views as difficult issues of law and fact. that's false, too. as to whether the president's actions and intent could be viewed as obstruction.

the barr explanation on obstruction and how the special counsel left it is a lie in and of itself. >> we know from reporting that robert mueller and his team was unhappy with barr's decision to put this summary out there and categorize his findings that way. barr has always had an expansive view of executive privilege, fine. i think what's happened since then has surprised people that knew him for a long time. where he had a stellar reputation from his previous stint in this job is just how political he has become. to the point where the president refers to him as i finally have my attorney general. he has loyalty to me. when his job should be to be the nation's top law enforcement officer. this is hidden moments people have relayed to me, when the president declared the national emergency at the border and explained it, and barr stepped forward saying you have the

legal justification to do it and ad-libbed a line, it's for the moral imperative of the country you're doing it. and the president told people afterwards that it surprise him that barr was willing to go out there on a limb for him in a political way. >> sure sign you've gone upward you've gone farther than the president wanted you to debasing the rule of law. after the break, seven from the senate, six from the house, three mayors, a cabinet member and two people with no military experience whatsoever. what the 2020 democrats have to do to break through. nevertheless, they persisted from a march of millions on donald trump's first day in office to a record breaking number of victories for women running in the midterms. a look ahead at 2020 and what could be another year of the woman. plus democracy decency and the

road ahead. our must see conversation with emmy winning actor jeff daniels. stay with us. actor jeff daniel. stay with us but we're also a company that controls hiv, fights cancer, repairs shattered bones, relieves depression, restores heart rhythms, helps you back from strokes, and keeps you healthy your whole life. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you.

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and that's the thing i wish the mike pences of the world understand, if you have a problem with who i am, your problem is not with me. your quarrel is with my creator. >> we cannot be an america that says it is okay for a president of the united states to try to block investigations into a foreign attack on our country or

investigations into that president's own misbehavior. so i have called on the house to initiate impeachment proceedings. >> there have been discussions of matters out there that they have not asked me to open an investigation. >> perhaps they've suggested? >> i wouldn't say suggest. >> hinted? >> i don't know. >> inferred? >> you don't know. okay. >> i could watch that on a loop. when you're vetting for your party's nomination in a crowd of 23, sometimes it takes one of those, a moment to stand out and cash fire. with joe biden cementing an early lead on the competition, the democratic field is asking how does a candidate break through the noise. kamala harris is the best example, she went to work that day doing her job on the

judiciary committee. that questioning of barr -- you know how i feel about barr -- he believes everything trump and hannity believe but he has the skill set and the institutional memo memory to do harm. >> i think you have to have those moments, moments that aren't determined by your aspiration, but really inhabit the moment and ask the truth seeking question. and at that point people can get a window into your character. stand in the moment, be truthful, and combine that with vision you can step out. trying to listen to your consultants and morph to the demands of the electorate you're not going to come off as genuine. now i feel they're experiencing a feeling of being overwhelmed by a representation of a thing that isn't a thing.

we need genuine folk who are interested in addressing kitchen table moments p that's the ground level. the base beginning of standing out. >> i was one of those operatives -- not that i didn't want people to listen to me. what you're saying to is right. when they turn the camera on donald trump, they see his base instincts grab them in the bleep, we don't want anyone from those bleep hole countries. what they see in the moment doesn't have to be pretty but it has to be real. what do you like that's been real? >> i like what elizabeth warren has been doing. not so much the gene logical stuff but i think around the policy and responding directly to donald trump. obviously i like what kamala harris is doing. bernie sanders is being bernie sanders. >> how is that working out? >> he's doing well in places we think he should do well, and he's doing well in places we

didn't think he would do so well. think cory booker is having a difficult time breaking through. castro the same. buttigieg is interesting. we've been overwhelmed by stupidity. so it's nice to have someone who's thoughtful and reflective. and then someone who can let us say, look, we voted for this monster, we're going to vote for the gay guy, quote/unquote, the queer guy, however we want to talk about it. in each of these moments people are trying to stand out in interesting ways. >> one of the things that's interesting in the current snapshot of where the race is, remember biden thought hoe needed a gimmick to get in, everyone is doing something, everyone had a thing. beto standing on tables, rolling up his sleeves, should he announce a running mate when he got in. turns out being in politics for 40 years and an older white man who was just joe biden was enough. so i think you kind of don't

know exactly what is going to make you stand out. >> i think it helped him to take a 2 by 4 to donald trump's racism. >> that's exactly right. he stood out by being the first one to zero in and run essentially a general election campaign. >> yeah, it's still early yet. i think joe biden has a lot of tail winds with the name recognition, he is formerly of the obama administration, he is the white guy. there is anxiety amongst some folks that they're afraid that they want to win. the last candidate was a woman, i think that's a drag on some women in this campaign, even though, elizabeth warren, kamala harris or any of the women in the campaign are hillary clinton. >> how do you think they have to deal with it? >> by doing what they're doing. senator harris she's doing her job and showing that she can stand up to donald trump and his administration. i love that clip because cory booker was sitting right next to

her like shaking his head. parab partially at what barr is saying, and partially darn it, she's getting a moment i wish i could get. >> i loved that clip, i worked for sarah palin, it's his can i get a lifeline? is there a staffer here? can someone give me a note. >> i think it's the same problem for some of the minority candidates it's not so much being a woman but rather being an older white man where the democratic base is driven by the primal fear of a second trump presidency, and right now they're convinced that the only thing standing between trump and a second -- or between a second presidency is joe biden. and until the other candidates can upset that assumption we're going to be in the same place. it's true for the women, it's true for the men. >> can i say, everywhere i go a

lot of people like joe biden. i have never gone anywhere sort of outside my life in television where people didn't come up and say why are you so hard on biden? i like him. >> it's both. he has the base. he has the base for every other candidate. >> and he has the authenticity. >> you want to have a beer with him, which is always the case. >> why do people like joe biden? they say he's decent, he's a good guy -- >> he's not trump. >> neither is anybody else in the race. all of them are decent. you have to think about why they're saying it. i think it's remarkable they're gravitating toward the white man after the kavanaugh hearing, after charlottesville, churches being burned. remember the last time the democrats elected a president that was a white man was 1992. >> look, if we held hillary clinton to a certain standard for her policies and her politics, there's no substantive

difference between clinton and biden. so if biden doesn't catch the hell that hillary clinton caught from the left wing of the party, sexism is at the heart of it. >> do you need a test for that? >> we'll see during the debates. >> we shall see. no one is going anywhere. this is too good. after the break, move over joe biden, the greatest threat to the bleep grabber in chief might be an army of women. in chief mit be an army of women. you see clear skin. you see me. but if you saw me before cosentyx... ♪ i was covered. it was awful. but i didn't give up. i kept fighting. i got clear skin with cosentyx. 3 years and counting. clear skin can last. see if cosentyx could make a difference for you. cosentyx is proven to help people with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis find clear skin that can last. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting cosentyx, you should be checked for tuberculosis.

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women filled more than 60% of all of the new jobs created over the past year. 60. so i think the men should sue the women for discrimination. they should sue. get a great lawyer. >> maybe it's just me but i feel like he's not joking. an given his history on women

and women's issues, donald trump is in risky territory with a joke about too many women in the workforce, especially considering the 2020 presidential election will likely be shaped and determined by female voters like the army of women galvanized into action by donald trump's presidency for millions marching down the streets the day after he was inaugurated to those recently protesting the abortion bans in several states. trump's clash on women is shining a light on issues for the women voters, from equal pay to maternal mortality rates. >> the goal is people should be paid equally for equal work. i impose we shift the burden away from the working women instead on the corporation. >> doctors and nurses don't hear

african-american women's medical issues the same way that they hear the same things from white women. we have to change that and we have to change it fast because people's lives are at stake. >> for so long women have been leading this fight. shouldering the burden making sure their repro duckive rights are protected. it's time we all join them in the fight. >> table is back. all of them saying and doing the right thing. the tragedy here is why is that a montage of democrats. it says so much how far the republican party has fallen that you can't fathom any of those messages coming out of a republican's mouth. >> all of this is surrounding not just democratic candidates for president, but there will be other races, you see bills in congress passed about pay equity. a caucus formed devoted to black health care. focussing on issues that don't pander to women but are real

things that women think about day in and day out and know that's going to resonate on the ground for them. it's always a crucial election for women, but particularly women -- >> literally our lives are -- men, my taxes. it's our lives. >> and republicans have set themselves on the other side because they're doubling down on abortion right now, which is yet on the democratic side they frame that as another attack on women. so it's all galvanizing. i don't want to call it a gender war, but it's getting close to one as we head to 2020. >> republicans don't have the -- they don't have a female bench. we saw it in 2018, we saw it with the kavanaugh hearings where they had to bring in someone else because they didn't want a bunch of male senators questioning this female woman accusing kavanaugh of inappropriate behavior. it's not that they're not addressing the issues, it's that they don't have a body of candidates that look and have

the same concerns and -- that women voters do. that's where democrats have a very clear edge. >> there's going to be such a strong juxtaposition in this election. on the one side of the ledger you have all the women candidates picking up where hillary clinton left off. and they actually can point to the progress made at the state level by the women who did come into power in the 2018 elections because they are pushing legislation such as paid maternity leave, women's reproductive health initiatives. all of the things that are suffering at the federal level under the trump administration. and now you have this gift of these really strict laws being enacted effectively ending abortion even in cases of rape and incest for women in these southern states that i think is shocking. shocking to women who maybe were conservative or even moderate and watched the women's march and said, girls, what are you

losing? why are you marching? nay're not taking anything away from us. they're seeing now actually roe v. wade may be at stake. we think it's a while until the supreme court actually takes that up. but there was real grievances and real legitimate anxieties driving those women to the streets that i think they didn't appreciate but they do now. >> i'm going to put you on the spot, if men gave birth, epidurals would be free and you'd get them from a pap smear. >> absolutely. absolutely. absolutely. >> you're the only man at the able, eddie. >> i'm going to quit. how have we not gone so far -- >> i'm going to back up a little bit. it's important for us not to narrowly read this issue as simply the identity politics issue. what we see, and kimberly hit it on the head.

this isn't an appeal to a demographic. these are policies that are speaking to lives to women across the country and cutting across class differences, because we know poor women will be impacted by these abortion bills. >> first. >> yes. the second thing, this is part of an ongoing culture war. make america great again isn't about an assertion of white male identity, it's an assertion of not only white supremacy, it's an assertion of patriarchy. why is it the case the women candidates aren't breaking through? why aren't we paying attention to them? because america is still fundamentally a sexist place, and this is the latest instance in that battle. >> i'm cheered, there are as many men making a lot of those

same points as women. there isn't both sides here. the democrats have travelled a lot farther. i take your point, i agree with your point, but i would say that one party is trying to address it, the other has their head in the sand. >> actively trying to in some ways reassert old norms, reassert kitchen, home domestic kind of notions. we're not devaluing that, but trying to assert a particular understanding of the traditional role of women. >> and the republican party is losing women. this is not a historical thing. they're losing women in congress. that's why they're saying we have a problem you need to wake up and do something with this because they're losing ground with women. >> after the break, an iconic actor in an iconic role. after the break, jeff daniels and why atticus finch from to kill a mocking bird speaks truth to today. a mocking bird speaksh to today

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i recently sat down with one of my all time favorite actors, jeff daniels who's playing one of my all time favorite characters, atticus finch, his nominated role, "to kill a mocking bird" our conversation on civility and decency and a president known for neither. i live in michigan. after the election i was surprised some of the people. i said, can you believe this election? they go, yeah, isn't it great. my wife's on facebook, oh, we got another trumper. we didn't see it coming. aticus goes through this, i know these people, they're good people, he's an apologist and an

enabler, i think there are people in the midwest, between the coasts who don't care about this, don't have time for this, who have to make a decision now. you have to decide, like atticus you have to decide if there's still decency, civility, do unto others, remember that, do unothers? all of that you believe in, you didn't vote for hillary, where are you now. your kids are looking up at you going, but he lies. i think there are a lot of people in the midwest going -- it might be enough for them. we're going to find out if the big gamble is to go all the way to november 2020, which i agree, and lose, it's the end of democracy. >> one of the people who came to see "to kill a mocking bird" i think in january was former fbi director jim comey, who is the tip of the spear in the fight.

i texted him today, i know he came to see the play and asked him what it means in this moment. and he wrote this. i'll read it off my phone here. first he said, he said the whole family went in early january. we were so excited to see it that patrice fell on the sidewalk, broke her clavicle and refused to go to the hospital. it's the perfect play for our time, it reminds us that people can be deeply biassed and flaws. and the heroes who stood up for it, the thousand cowards melted away. there will be no plays about the vir which you of this republican party and its passion for the truth. he's seeing the same parallel, anyone in the political arena in another moment can't escape the cowardice of the mob. >> and they write about this, where atticus talks about a mob

acts on emotion, absent facts, abse absent respect for others, absent contemplation, what they get is anonymity, a conscience can keep you up at night. a mob is where people go to take a break from their conscience. people go oh. >> you hear them. i was sitting there. >> that's what i see when i look at trump's rallies. the lies spewing at people, and i got to believe in something, and he said he'd bring my manufacturing job back and she didn't i'm all in. yeah, aside from i don't want to pay taxes, it's race. this is about the republican party, or a wing of it, going this is our last chance to save the party. and if we don't, it's the end of

the republican party. and the only way they can do that was to tap the race button and say go ahead, it's okay. and he did. and they did. and that was the only card they had left to play, and they played it. and they aren't going to go quietly. that's why you look at the cowardice of the 15 or 20 republicans in the senate who are quiet. i'm not talking about bob corker, flake, who's the other one that went out the back door. >> sass. >> that's not courage. that's making sure you have a job somewhere after politics. courage is standing up being a true pay trtriot like we had in 1776. who's the hero going to be? here's the guy at the justice department going here, "washington post," here's the unredacted. go. i'm waiting for that guy. >> we're all waiting for that guy. >> we look at politics, i can't

do this, i can't do that, you're all worth willess to me right n. i need people to stand up and be heroic because democracy is at stake. >> wow, jeff daniels there. after the break, president trump making it clear he has no patience for political correctness, not even when it comes to your money. correctness, not even when it comes to your money. what? what?? what?! (laughing) what?? what?! what?! [crash] what?! haha, it happens. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice. so get allstate... and be better protected from mayhem... like me. ♪ straight from the world's best plant scientists comes miracle-gro performance organics. it's miracle-gro's next big thing. ♪ ♪ organic plant food and soil that finally work. ♪ ♪ and work...

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rodney: when i think about what makes quality public education, i think about the important people in students' lives that's beyond the classroom. marisa: the needs that students have for emotional counseling are not being met. rosanne: students need art and music. more creative kids tend to be better problem solvers. angelia: one of the things that we're out there marching for is more counselors and more nurses. roxana: when we have those resources and that support, we're able to give students the education that they need. rodney: because we know quality public schools... roxana: make a better california... marisa: for all of us. nicolle wallace. before donald trump took office, president obama's treasury department made an historic announcement.

harriet tubman would appear on the $20 bill, replacing andrew jackson. donald trump's treasury secretary, steve mnuchin saying the change won't happen until after donald trump leaves office. "new york times" reports, quote, plans to unveil the tubman bill in 2020 would be postponed until at least 2026. mnuchin says the bill itself will not likely be in circulation until 2028. everyone is back. i guess some news isn't news at all, is it? >> no, it isn't. the remarkable thing about that report is that it made it seem as if mnuchin was trying to save the plan somehow, because if he tried to put it forward, it might kill it all together rather than postponing it, which is a profile in courage there. i think it is important to remember that donald trump as a candidate when asked about this plan that was already in place for this change against andrew jackson who trump has an affinity for, he praised andrew jackson, and suggested that

harriet tubman was better suited for the $2 bill and said this was just political correctness. this may seem like a small story for people but it speaks volumes about this president showing us who he was before charlottesville, before taking office, before all the things he said since. he has always been clear and transparent on views when it comes to things like this. this is just another example. >> let me read that. in april, 2016, trump called it pure political correctness, suggested that tubman could be added to a far less common denomination. andrew jackson has a great history. i think it is very rough when you take somebody off the bill, truck said. >> it is just another paragraph in this narrative of how he views race. >> and women. >> and women. you can't look at it any other way. when you talk to people about this, i covered when the obama administration went through the process, it was initially the $10 bill, now the $20 bill.

they didn't want to raise it, they didn't want the president to notice that it was out there the same way that mnuchin did. and you just can't separate, this was a very easy thing for the president to let happen, and he had to actively not let it happen. so when you put all of that together, it is hard when people make the case that he doesn't have the views that a lot of data points point to him having on race. >> you know, i was sitting here thinking you have these moments that hit you squarely in the face so you don't fall for the illusion that for some people, for a large number of people in this country, they don't see you as a constituent or part of it, they only view you as the kind of recipient of some philanthropic gesture, so the idea of harriet tubman being on our currency, right, somehow oversteps the bounds, right, and threatens the integrity of our

vision of ourselves, right? it's always as if me, people like me are late comers to this project. and you know, the idea that we will double down on this racist dude is just disgusting. here are symbolic representations of who he really is and who he really is, which is so profound in my view and so deeply intertwined with who we are. and until we face that, we're going to keep vomiting up people like this. >> no better way to end it. we're going to sneak in a break and be right back. sneak in a b and be right back. nooooo... quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent than the leading ordinary brand. [son loudly clears throat] [mom and dad laugh] bounty, the quicker picker upper.

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my thanks for watching. kamala harris joins lawrence o'donnell for a town hall tuesday night at 10:00 eastern on msnbc. that does it for this hour. i am nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" starts now. well, if it is monday, 2020 vision is coming into focus. nearly two dozen candidates nearly halfway through the year, but it is a biden that's broken through so far. and the growing push to impeach president trump. could it do democratic candidates more harm than good? climate change is vaulted to become a top issue with democratic voters. but the general election voters, are they warming to the issue? if it is monday, it is a special edition of "mtp daily." good memorial day to you. hope you had