dad as an angel on one shoulder and our brother as an angel on the other shoulder. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm natalie morales, thanks for watching. good morning i'm phillip mena in new york. it's 6:00 in the east, 3:00 out west and here's what's happening. another deadly mass shooting u.n. deface and reaction this morning on events that shattered a friday afternoon in virginia beach. >> we just heard people yelling and screaming to get done. >> taking cover, dramatic stories from those caught at work as the shootings were under way. what they saw and what they heard, next. tariff spin, new reports, new denials on whether president trump defied advisers when calling for new tariffs on mexico. crossing the line -- there are newly reduced transcripts of a voicemail from a trump lawyer

to michael flynn's legal team. what do they suggest? reaction, next. new details this hour on the breaking news from a mass shooting in virginia beach. police say 12 people were killed on three floors of a municipal building friday afternoon. four more were wounded. as of last night, 90 people had sought services at the family assistance center. official says they're working through the process of identifying victims as quickly as possible. police also converging on the suspect's apartment. officials have not relowsed his name, but say he's a longstanding city employee and he was shot dead during a fierce gunfight with four police officers first on the scene. >> immediately engaged with the suspect. and i can tell you that it was a long gun battle between those four officers and that suspect. we recovered a .45-caliber

handgun with multiple extended magazines that were empty at the time. >> today is virginia beach's darkest hour. a senseless crime happened. and imposed tremendous grief upon the people of virginia beach. >> we're expecting an update from officials in the next couple of hours. nbc's ron allen is covering the story for us and joins us from virginia beach. we're getting dramatic accounts from witnesses who were inside the building at the time. what are you hearing? >> well it was just an incredible thing that happened here. 4:00 in the afternoon on a friday there are some 400 employees who work in this building. where on the campus of the municipal center. there are about 20 or 30 buildings here. you can see behind me back down there. that's the building that we're talking about. it's a three-story building. there were bodies found on all floors. the suspect, the shooter was a

long-time employee. so he had access to the building, a place where people go to pay bills, where city workers come and go. the utilities department, it's a very open campus. the point i'm trying to make. so at this hour, 4:00 in the afternoon the gunman walked in leisurely, he had a silencer on a gun, so some witnesses say they weren't quite sure it was happening. the sounds were muffled at first and then police engaged him which is the tactic, the strategy that police across the country use, they go in and encounter the gunman. there was a lengthy shootout. we don't know how long, many minutes apparently it took. as the gunman was moving floor to floor to floor. apparently firing randomly at people. it doesn't appear he was trying to target anyone in particular. here's what some of the people who were hunkered down inside the building, barricaded in their offices had to say about what they saw and heard. >> we're hearing shooting about

we didn't think it was actually at the courthouse, because it was kind of multiple. >> we put a desk up against the door. we didn't know if they were coming in or anything. >> there was a lady on the stairs unconscious, blood on her face. we didn't know what happened. we went yut upstairs, and she said, get out of the building. >> i'm petrified because i live right under him. that could have been me or my girlfriend or my roommate. he seemed like a nice guy, he introduced himself when we first moved in. that's just crazy. >> apparently the suspect is very well known because he had been an employee at the city for many years. a long time. so people knew who he was.

this is a very small community of workers in this municipal complex. just a devastating thing that happened, out of the blue. with no warning, which is the way they things tragically and randomly seem to always happen. so now there's still a heavy police presence here at the scene. they're still processing, going through the building and they're also at the suspect's home, trying to notify people in the community about what happened. the sun is rising here now. it's going to be quite a solemn day as people try to understand and come to grips with this horrible thing that's happened here. yet again, a shooting in america. phillip? >> ron, what do woe no about the news conference coming up? what do we expect to learn when that happens later on today. >> we're trying to learn all the basics of what police know about the weapons that were used. the weapon that was used. they believe it was purchased legally. more about the suspect and of course this motive. why would somebody ever do something like this? there's no explanation for that.

at this point. the authorities are again this happened overnight. they've been processing these crime scenes it just sounds like this was a massive incident. a massi ivive firefight. the gunman was loading and reloading his weapon we understand. he had a number of magazines. we're trying to understand as much as we can about what happened. there's still a number of people who are in the hospital who i believe are in critical condition. as many as four or five at last report. there's some who are wounded and again this is a community just trying to understand, trying to grapple with how this could happen here. age-old question, we do this again and again -- how could this happen here? who was this guy? why would he do this? there's never a logical or sensible explanation for these things. that's what this community is going through, a very solemn and grief-filled process. that we have so many times

tragically seen before. >> a tragedy that's all too familiar. ron allen live from virginia beach. let's go to the white house and nbc's mike vaquero, what's the reaction there? >> since this did happen at 4:00 eastern here in washington, south of here in virginia beach. haven't heard anything from president trump. we understand from his spokesperson, hogan gidley that he has been briefed on the situation. the president does not have a schedule of public schedule this weekend at least not today. late on sunday night he's due across town at a previously scheduled gala at ford's theater. and late at night on sunday here in washington, he takes off for a much anticipated state visit to great britain, also a visit to ireland and normandy thrown in as well. so nothing yet from the president. known to be a prolific tweeter to say the least, has not yet taken to the air waves, has not yet taken to the internet to offer reaction. >> all right, mike vaquero

joining us early on this saturday morning from the white house. want to bring in shawn henry, a former fbi executive assistant director. shawn thank you so much for joining us this morning. as soon as the police arrive they engage the shooter. the police chief said that prevented additional injuries and additional deaths, is law enforcement better prepared to handle these situations? >> unfortunately because of how many, how prolific these types of events are, they've been training quite extensively for the last decade on what we call active shooter. police officers are training and they are trained to clearly go to the threat as quickly as they can. oftentimes in law enforcement events there's a slow, deliberate clear when you're executing a search warrant or an arrest warrant where you know there's somebody inside who might be armed. it's very, methodical and in a case like this where you've got an active shooter, the police are trained to go immediately to the threat. they very quickly put themselves at risk. go past open doors, they go into

rooms. they try to cover each other. but the idea is to get to the shooter as quickly as possible, to eliminate the threat to allow people to get out. the other piece here i think that is important is the training that victims have come by in the last decade or so. where we've seen run, hide and fight. a very clear directive to victims object what they can do to protect themselves in this particular case. listening to victims here in the newsfeed. there are many who ran when they heard the shooting. they were told by their co-workers to get out. other who is sheltered in place, they were in contact with other co-workers via phone. they put barricades up against the door. pushing desks, hiding in closets. so the training beyond police officers into the victims, also likely helped to save lives here. >> many companies running through those active shooter drills. the shooter bought his guns legally within the last couple

of weeks. shawn, is there any way that we can connect the dots here and try to stop these people before they can commit these types of atrocities? >> we've heard news reports the police chief said it was a disgruntled employee. i think that certainly the investigation at this point is going to try to identify what the actual motivation is. that's what you'll see come out of the search warrant, at his house, at his vehicle. through his social media. et cetera, i think oftentimes there are signs where somebody might be disgruntled. you've got employees who appear to be isolated. they withdraw from the social fabric within the office. they sometimes make comments or statements, if they see other co-workers being promoted. they feel like they've been somehow harmed in some way. i think that police officers certainly are not in line to see those things firsthand. but employers are, family members are there are people

that are surrounding these, these people who might identify these signs, and they've got to be addressed early on in a calm fashion and try to, to try and bring these things to a peaceful solution. we'll find out more about what actually motivated this particular individual there will be a lot of lessons learned on how to deescalate going forward. >> i understand this is going to be a large question, something we grapple with here. what do you think the best way is to prevent the frequency of these mass shootings or at the very least, limit the number of casualties when they do in fact happen? >> well eliminating casualties i think the training that we just spoke about. but both on the police officer side as well as the victim side, how do you manage to mitigate the consequences of an attack like this. i also think there's a lot going on in our society. a lot of this comes down to what we do as a community. how do we handle people in

distress? how do we identify people who might have some type of an emotional issue. how do we limit those people from getting access to weapons? how do we make this, not such a notoriety type issue. we've seen a lot of copy cats in school shootings. how do we take the allure away from that and try to mitigate it that way? there's a whole host of things that go into trying to insure we have a safer society. there's no easy answer. it's going to require both law e enforcement, the community to come together to try to find the right solution. >> appreciate your insight. the impact of the president's tariff threat heads to mexico while wall street doesn't like it. will this give the president second thoughts? what to expect moving forward, next. ♪ i want it that way... i can't believe it. that karl brought his karaoke machine?

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back now with latest on the shooting in virginia beach. police say the suspect, a long-time city employee opened fire at a municipal building on friday afternoon. 12 people were killed. the suspect was shot dead after what police describe as a long gun battle. four other people were wounded, including a police officer. whose bulletproof vest helped save his life. to politics now, new this morning, widening political ramifications over the president's threat to impose tariffs on all mexican goods. starting in about a week, a 5%

tariff will be placed, unless mexico slows down the flow of migrants crossing the border. the tariffs would rise monthly to as high as 25% until the white house decides that the problem has been solved. two sources close to the white house tell nbc news the tariff threat was posed by treasury secretary steven mnuchin and u.s. trade representative robert lighthizer. whose idea was it? immigration hard-liner steven miller. the white house senior adviser spent the bulk of the president's japan trip advocating for a tougher line on mexico. the white house denies the decision was rushed. >> adviser lighthizer supports the agenda and will continue to push to get u.s. mca to get the vote it deserves and continue to negotiate trade deals with china. >> the president didn't blind-side his own party. if republicans weren't aware, they haven't been paying attention, i don't mean that in a bad way. >> the mexican president wrote

to president trump. the quote social problems cannot be resolved with taxes or corrosive measures. mexican authorities insist that their data shows they've been deporting immigrants crossing from central america. meanwhile, u.s. business groups are considering suing the white house. several republicans in congress have slammed the president's threat. >> if the president is going to do it i think it has to be thought out and to see what all the collateral damage is going to be. many american businesses and that means many american workers could be affected by this. just for instance on the china tariffs, i've had some businesses in my district which have been affected which probably people wouldn't have thought they were going to be actually hit hard by it. but they are. >> several crucial 2020 electoral states would be hit the hardest as imports from mexico account for 13% of all u.s. imports. most economists agree consumers will ultimately pay for those tariffs. the white house top trade

adviser peter navarro says otherwise. >> the people who say that somehow american consumer is going to pay for this is not true. the government of china has borne the burden of those tariffs in the form of lower tax revenues and a lower rate of growth. >> so is the american consumer. >> but -- >> no. >> importers pay for it. >> the government of kline and mexico will pay for it and the producers in mexico and china pay for this. >> let's discuss this further with blake houndshell editor in chief of politico magazine and john haltenwiner, with "business insider." >> how do you interpret the insistence that american consumers will not pay for the tariffs. is the general consensus that the american consumer would pay? is the white house not being straight here? >> yeah, peter navarro has always been an outlier by economists which is why he's so

beloved by the president, who seems to have a different idea of how economics works than any other economist in the world. the president came out with statements yesterday saying this is going to hit american consumers right in the wallet so when you have the u.s. chamber of commerce saying that, i think it's clear what's going on. >> what do you make of the president goided by steven miller to go ahead with the tariff threat despite his top economic aides warning him not to. does this come down to the president trying to appeal to his base? >> absolutely. this is definitely about his desperation on the issue of immigration. he campaigned on the idea that it would be easy for him to come in and address legal immigration. but the problem has only gotten worse since he entered the white house and he's taken a number of drastic moves. from the natural emergency declaration to now this. and his agenda is not working. it's at a standstill. i think we're seeing he's increasingly desperate to appease voters and perhaps also

wants to distract from impeachment talk and yes, appease his base ahead of an election year. >> the tweet did come right after robert mueller spoke publicly for the first time. i want to discuss increasing calls for an impeachment inquiry after several democrats interpreted this week's statement from the special counsel as an impeachment referral. here's congresswoman's debby dingell's interpretation. >> there's a very -- the theme that is throughout this report about how russian is trying to dedivide this country. i don't want to play into russia's hands and divide this country more with a partisan impeachment. i'm totally schizophrenic right now about all the different things in there. i think we have to do this in a bipartisan way. >> blake, is she alone, or is the congresswoman genuinely overthinking this? >> i think people in and around house speaker nancy pelosi are

trying to hold back a tide, a rising tide of democrats calling for impeachment. she's worried about house members in districts that won in the 201 mid terms in trump country, red districts, purpose districts. those are the representatives who you don't see coming out for impeachment. and pelosi is worried they'll lose their seats if democrats go in that direction. that's why she and people like debbie dingell, jerry nadler are trying to slow-walk this before it's kind of a rush to judgment. >> john, you wrote that democrats are moving towards impeaching the president, despite strong evidence it could hurt them in 2020. here's judiciary chairman jerry nadler. >> you can't impeach the president until the people support it. and you also, it's a political act and you also don't want to divide the country so that half the country is bitter for 30 years, if there is

justification, you have to develop the awareness in the country and, and the agreement basically before you can take the real step of an impeachment. >> john what do you think about the argument that an impeachment inquiry could help generate public support for impeachment? >> i think there's a strong case to be made for that. there's a point that democrats if they want to gain support for impeachment, need to lay out the case for it and present the evidence to the american people. i think we've seen a lot of polling and other evidence that shows that americans aren't really aware of mueller's findings, only 3% of americans have read mueller's report. a majority of republicans think that falsely believe that mueller's report fully exonerated the president. so now there's correct that having mueller testify perhaps launching impeachment inquiry that could help them lay out the evidence could generate more support among the public for

impeachment. >> do you think it's better that democrats do what they think is right or what they think polls better? >> i think that's a question for democrats. but generally i would say, it's like fear. the public can smell a lack of conviction in your politics and if you go out there and you say, my heart tells me we need to impeach donald trump he's done all of these wrong things, but my political brain tells me we need to not do that. voters can smell that. they're going to act accordingly, you're going to lose enthusiasm among the democratic base and voters will sit on their hands and stay home if they think you're being overly political like that. >> thank you so much. we're going to discuss gun control with you later. a new poll taken after robert mueller's statement this week shows a majority oppose impeaching the president, will that convince democrats to lay off? my experience with usaa

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source telling nbc news his name is dwayne craddock. he was shot dead in a long gun battle. police say a total of 12 people were killed, four others were wounded. the city is trying to identify victims as quickly as possible in order to notify families. police say they recovered a .45 caliber handgun and several empty magazines. officials expressing shock and horror. >> this is a horrific day. a lot of people are on scene and our thoughts are for these victims and their families and we're working with our law enforcement, our first responders to make sure we take care of everybody. >> we're hearing dramatic stories from employees inside the complex at the time. nbc's ron allen joining us again from virginia beach. what can you tell us from there? >> well there were about 400 people or so employees in the complex. it's huge complex of about 30 city buildings here.

and the building in question is right behind me, a colonial brick building, three stories tall. and there were bodies found on each of the floors. the gunman, the suspect as he's being called here, is not being identified by name here. the city officials are making a point of saying they are only going to say his name once and refer to him as the suspect out of respect for the victims, out of respect for the community. so that the focus of attention here is on the community and not on this gunman who carried out this deranged event. this happens at 4:00 p.m. on a friday, the bidding is filled with workers. it's the end of the week, people are probably getting ready to go home and all of a sudden this happens. it's an open building where people can come and go, there doesn't seem to be a security system to get into it. we understand that the main city hall, which is adjacent to this building did enhance security in recent years because of all the shootings that have been

happening around the country. but this one was a wide-open place, because the gunman was an employee, he had access to the building. he walked freely in, apparently. and just opened fire. he used what they're calling a suppressor, a silencer. so there are some reports, as some of the people who were there, couldn't quite understand exactly what was going on. the sounds of the gunfire didn't sound as close as it actually was. many barricaded themselves in offices, they called 911. the police responded very quickly. there were four officers who got here in a matter of minutes and immediately engaged the gunman. and as police were describing, a long, drawn-out gun battle of many minutes. apparently a very horrifying situation that played itself out. while the gunman was taken down by police. today still a very heavy police presence here. a very active scene. police, fbi, there are

authorities from all over this area trying to help this community figure out how such a horrible thing could happen. >> employees' minds were on the weekend. now their lives are changed forever. ron allen, thank you so much. joining us from virginia beach this morning. let's turn to politics and the debate over special counsel robert mueller's message. raging on. his unexpected appearance is leading washington to parse comments like this one. >> the opinion says that the constitution requires a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting president of wrongdoing. >> attorney general bill barr delivering a rebuttal of sorts yesterday. saying he thought mueller could have reached a conclusion. "the new york times" sums up a divide with this headline, mueller delivered a message, washington couldn't agree on what it means. joining us democratic strategist, former adviser to hillary clinton's campaign in south carolina and boston radio

host, adriana cohen, a nationally syndicated columnist. good morning to you. >> antoine, how do you explain this divide? did mueller's remarks move the conversation forward at all in your view? >> i don't think it moved the conversation forward. i think it confirmed what we already knew, what i said to you several weeks ago on this program. i think the special prosecutor gave the congress an alley-oop on a seven-foot rim in order to slam-dunk. the question for the congress, particularly the democratic majority in the house is what happens next? i've been clear, consistent about the philosophy of rob base, it makes two to make the thing go right. i think the congress has to focus on investigating and legislating. what we know is not many people are totally in support of this idea of impeachment. we also know that not many people in this country, particularly voters, have either read the report or are familiar with the report. i think at this point, the congress has to continue to be methodical. and flesh out the cups of

corruption that overflow from this administration and set the case for what happens next. if there's if that is impeachment, we have to build a public case with public support, because we got in the majority in congress, because we focus on quality of life issues and i think that's what the american people are expecting us to do. not necessarily to focus 100% on impeachment. >> adriana, some democrats and other observers, including mueller biographer, gary graph, consider mueller's remarks his way of saying his report was an impeachment referral to congress. is that possible? >> i think it was. i think bob mueller really did the country a lot of harm by presenting nuance. which is bad for our country. basically he after 22 months, exhausted investigation with 19 lawyers, they turned over every stone. they could not find that the president of the united states committed a crime. if he did, they would have brought charges. and the fact that they didn't and he even said --

>> that's not true. >> that's not true. >> he had insufficient evidence, then it's case closed. i mean -- if go ahead. >> you absolutely did not pay attention to the special prosecutor's comments early this week. he clearly laid out in his press conference, if the president did not commit a crime, he, the report would have said so. so that does not mean he did not commit a crime. what it means is that the special prosecutor felt like in his body of work, what he was called to did or challenged to do, he could not necessarily bring about those charges. what most people took from that, democrats and republicans, that yes, the congress has a job to continue to drag this out and investigate and flush this out to sigh what happens next. to say that the president didn't commit a crime is a lie on saturday morning. >> no, no, no. i disagree, look, he's a prosecutor, his job is to either find if a crime was committed or not. he shouldn't -- >> adriana, he said it was olc

guidelines, he was trying to follow olc guidelines, he made it clear that he could not charge the president with a crime, because he could not defend himself in any court other, so that's why he said it was another body, i.e. congress, it was up to them. he was laying out the evidence. >> let me speak antoine, it's my turn to speak. you know attorney general barr said that he is spoke with bob mueller and he told him on three times with witnesses present, that he did not bring, he did not not bring charges because of the office of legal counsel rules, he didn't bring charges because there was insufficient evidence. there's a big difference here. >> that's not -- >> look -- >> so adriana, let me ask you this, why in the world do we not have trump's appointed a.g., who has pledged allegiance to donald

trump based on his behavior, why in the world would he not sit himself down before the congress and allow them to question him and flesh this out? because the a.g. was clear in his report and he was clear in his follow-up press conference just the other day that trump has not been exonerated by his report. now maybe you -- >> let me explain the law to you, antoine, let me explain the law to you, it's not a prosecutor's job to not exonerate someone. we have presumption of innocence in this country and you either charge someone with a crime and if you can't find one, they are innocent. and so what bob mueller -- >> you can't charge someone that you don't have the liberty to. >> on its head. because he's now forcing the accused to prove their innocence and that's not the way our legal system works. i have a column out right now saying it's bob mueller who should be censored, if not disbarred for malpractice. >> let me tell you what i believe. i believe the special prosecutor should come before congress. i believe the congress should do

its job and have trump's a.g. come before congress so the american people can know. what we know is that russia hacked into our elections for the sake of helping donald trump become the president of the united states. the president admitted it himself just a few days ago on twitter. therefore what we need to do as the special prosecutor said one we should definitely pay attention to that and the republicans are pressing the ignore button on that issue. two, i think the american people deserve to know everything that happened and how it happened and why it happened and who was involved. because at the end of the day, the report did not exonerate the president. you can right all the column us want and yell and scream at me and try to -- >> no one is yelling, antoine, i'm giving you the facts. >> you know i'm right. >> no, i don't believe you're right at all. i think we need full transparency as to the origins of this entire special counsel investigation. republicans are all for transparency.

let's talk about that hillary clinton paid for, that made its way into our justice system with the help of the obama administration and you know, james comey. he said the dossier was salacious and unfair, unverified. he still allowed it to be used as a cudgel against a political opponent, donald trump. we cannot have our justice system weaponize for political purposes. >> if you're all about transparency. i don't mean convenient transparency. if you're all about transparency, why won't trump signal to his a.g. to testify before the congress? why is he telling his disciples and associates to not go before the democratic, the democratic congress and testify? >> because this is a never-ending witch hunt. the case closed. the prosecutor found no collusion, no obstruction. >> we're going to have to pick this up another day. i appreciate the spirit of debate as always, thank you so much for joining us this morning. the tale of the transcript in the michael flynn saga.

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it's fuel for thought. shooting in virginia beach raising questions about guns in america and how congress might respond. back with us to discuss, blake houndshell with politico and john haltenwanger with "political insider" is there a chance that cumulative effects with so many shootings might

change the political appetite for gun reform? >> i think that there's a chance of that. i think with this congress, not so much. as long as republicans control the senate, there's not going to be much appetite for gun control. but i think you see the politics shifting ever so slightly at the state level. and gun control activists are getting smarter and more sophisticated about how they approach this issue even as the nra, the biggest gun rights organization is reeling from its internal scandals and struggling to raise money at the clip it once did and you have michael bloomberg, former mayor of new york, throwing around tens of millions of dollars in american politics, outspent the nra in the 201 mid terms and a lot of nra candidates didn't do as well as the organization had hoped. so i think there's a shifting slowly. i don't think you're going 0 get gun control out of congress tomorrow. but rome wasn't wasn't built in a day. >> the national rifle

association are going through internal turmoil. its president recently resigning over alleged financial mismanagement and the new york attorney general is now investigating the nra's finances. john, is there any sense of a crack in the nra that could diminish its influence? or is that organization just as strong as ever? >> well i think that certainly possible. and obviously there's a lot of internal chaos right now, you're right. but to blake's point, republicans still control the senate and there's really no signs that they're interested in supporting any new gun control legislation. despite the fact that most americans would like to see stricter gun laws and there's bipartisan agreement among voters on issues like universal background checks. but yes, at the moment it doesn't look like republican lawmakers would support such legislation. >> we're left with the old familiar phrase with, our thoughts and prayers, blake and john, thank you so much for joining us this morning. we will talk about the why behind these headlines, justice department keeps wiretaps secret in flynn case. hopes you drive s.

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we're following breaking news, investigators are looking for apss this morning after yesterday's mass shooting in

virginia beach. police raided the home of a suspect alongstanding city employee who was shot dead at the scene. 12 people were killed, at least four others wounded, including a police officer saved by his buttproof vest. the city is trying to victims to notify families. the massacre is the deadliest in the u.s. this year. new reaction today after federal prosecutors refused the judge's order to release by friday transcripts michael flynn had with the russian ambassador during the presidential transition. the transcripts were expected to show the two men spoke in december of 2016 about sanctions the obama administration had imposed on russia. joining me now to discuss this is legal analyst danny cevallos. >> good morning. it is interesting when you read between the lines the language and orders. the judge released the

transcript and added a trailer of any recordings the government has. you have to imagine at main justice or doj while looking at the order they were scratching their heads because we cannot release everything. surely the judge meant the stuff we used in the flynn case and relied on in sentencing. the doj and attorneys had an interesting choice. comply with the judge's order as everything or do they release what the judge thought he meant by the order and give the stuff they relied upon in sentencing. it is a game buit. it is a risk that the judge could come back angrier if he perceives the order was rejected. >> how can they come to that clarification? >> how do they interpret it? >> sure. >> it is a gambit. if the order requires any and all recordings that you have.

so the government is really trying an interpretation is what the judge must have meant. surely, judge, you must have meant the stuff we used in this case for flynn so i'll tell you what. we will release and comply with the order. here is what we complied with. maybe they hope the judge doesn't notice which will not happen here or the judge will be s saited. phillip, these orders are as long as a tweet. sometimes they say that is not what they talked about in court. the judge dictated it or lost in translation. sometimes it does. i don't think that happened here. the government is taking a risk. maybe it will payoff. maybe it won't. i have sympathy for the government attorneys the moment they had to file knowing they may be perceived as violating the judge's order.

>> in another filing on friday, the voice mail message that john dowd left for michael flynn's order. he said it would not surprise him if flynn is about to make a deal. he said if there is information that implicates the president, then it is a national security issue. he later asked for a head's up. danny, what are you making of this? >> dowd is a talented lawyer. that being said, i cannot imagine why anyone with leave a voice mail as an attorney, even attorney to attorney, in such a high profile situation as this any kind of voice mail with any kind of substance other than call me back. here's my cell phone number. this is the kind of thing that john dowd and people will interpret or miss iinterpret an view as a possible veiled threat to not cooperate or whether or not they are cooperating. this is a shame.

frankly, that's why voice mail and transcripts can be misinterpreted. probably something he wishes he did not do now is leave voice mails for attorneys who now will turn those over to the government. >> dowd did issue a statement. this is clearly a baseless political document designed to smear and damage the reputation of counsel and innocent people. michael flynn is awaiting sentencing. what impact could these transcripts have on the sentencing? >> we know michael flynn delayed his sentencing essentially judge sullivan's order or recommendation i would say. not too subtle a recommendation. in the judge's view, flynn was not finished with cooperating with the government. unusual hearing to be sure. normally if the government is on board with cooperation, the judge doesn't interfere too much. that's why flynn's sentencing was delayed. now the release of this transcript coupled with the government's perceived possibly

not complying with the order could add more intrigue to flynn's sentencing and the level of cooperation that judge sullivan perceives. >> i want to go now to the former special counsel robert mueller and attorney general william barr. they made contradicting statements as barr stood behind the president's actions mentioned in the report. let's listen to that. >> many instances would not amount to obstruction. >> when a subject of an investigation obstructs that investigation or lies to investigators it strikes at the core of the government's effort to find the truth. >> there was no obstruction. >> if we had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. >> we didn't agree with the legal analysis. >> charging the president with a crime was not an option we could consider. >> there was no obstruction. >> it is important that the office's written work speak for itself. >> danny, do you think his

public statement was a way to contradict what barr said publicly? >> that montage was like drinking from a public water fountain. the dispute with barr and mueller. barr says sub stantively there wasn't obstruction. mueller says from the start, we knew we could in the charge obstruction and we gathered facts and let other people figure it out. we knew from the beginning we were never going to charge obstruction. mueller and barr, although they have a long working relationship together, are never going to agree. >> legal analyst danny cevallos, thank you. at the top of the hour, live reports on the top story. at least 12 are dead after a man opens fire at a building in virginia beach.

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all right. that wraps up this hour of msnbc live. i'm phillip mena. it is time for "alex witt." >> thank you. welcome to weekends with alex witt. a gunman leaves 12 dead. officers take action. >> we were able to locate