his stuff? no. i'm not even done yet. wow. business tv. cloud apps and support. comcast business goes beyond at&t. start with internet and voice for just $59.90 a month. it's everything a small business owner needs. comcast business. beyond fast. that's a wrap for me on this hour. i'll see you again at noon eastern. now it's time for "up about david gura." he's in d.c. this is "up." i'm david gura in washington this morning as the calls for impeachment get louder. >> with respect to impeachment question at this point, all options are on the table and nothing should be ruled out. >> plenty of democrats worried about the potential political fallout why this will not be a

replay of 1998. a vocabulary lesson from the president. impeachment is dirty and filthy and disgusting, but tariff is a beautiful word. >> look, you slap on tariffs to change the behavior of a trading partner. >> plus 2020 democrats shine in the golden state, even as protesters try to steal the spotlight. >> hey, hey, hey. hey, hey, hey. >> hi, hi, hi. >> it is sunday, june the 2nd. this is "up" in washington. >> you know what? >> what? >> i'm glad we were here together in our nation's capital. >> that would be this morning. kimberly atkins, jeremy peters, a political reporter for "the new york times." he is also an msnbc. ed luce is a columnist for

"financial times" and betsy woodruff, also an msnbc contributor. as of this morning there are 54 house democrats who have come out in favor of beginning impeachment proceedings against president trump. that's according to "the new york times." but as lawmakers return from recess, the debate rages on about what happens next. of course we've been here before. i want to give you a sense of what the discourse was like back in 1998. >> we're down to just two days, tuesday and wednesday, before the full house of representatives takes up the question of whether to impeach the president. that is, charge him with high crimes and misdemeanors. >> the president of the united states chose in august months after being warned not to do it, he chose to lie to a federal grand jury. let it be said by as many members of the house that can say it, you're subject to being impeached if you do that. >> what the president has done is not a great and dangerous offense to the safety of the public, it is not an impeaching offense under the meaning of the

constitution. >> those are the rules and consequences of what has been a long an sore ddid and painful i. >> we believe there is nothing that rise to the level of impeachment. >> i will suspect history will show that we lowered the bar of impeachment so much that it will be used as a political tool to fight political battles. my fear is that when a republican will win the white house, democrats will demand payback. >> a couple of decades later, here's how president trump reacted when a reporter asked him if he thought lawmakers would try to impeach him. >> i don't see how. they can because they're possibly allowed, although i can't imagine the courts allowing it. i've never got into it. i never thought that would even be possible to using that word. to me it's a dirty word, the word "impeach." it's a dirty, filthy, disgusting word. ed, you wrote a column about

this, how about that historical resonance? you have a lot of politicians saying there are political lessons to be learned from what happened back in the late '90s. >> which i think there are, but the wrong conclusions are being drawn. if you look at ken starr, the prosecutor there had been rifling through clinton's proverbial underwear drawers, if you like, for years and years. the worst he can come up with is that famous semen-stained dress of monica lewinsky's. donald trump's -- not one year of donald trump's tax returns have yet been made available. his financial records at deutsche bank are not available. it's a completely different kind of investigation. the charges are at different, opposite ends of the spectrum. ken starr started with a real estate deal in arkansas. mueller starts with the hijacking of american democracy. so the comparison, i think, is an interesting one but the contrast is a lot more interesting. so i think the idea that

clinton, you know, came out better from impeachment than when he went in might be something to do with the fact the american people looked at what he was being investigated for and concluded it was not serious. and so i think as an argument not to impeach trump, it's a very weak one. >> kimberly, you hear the argument being made. there are nods to the late '90s. you listen to speaker pelosi and other members of the democratic house leadership, how much are they investing in that historical analog? >> i think they are. everything that you said taken as true, at the same time they remember that the impeachment process, president clinton left far more popular and with higher approval ratings than when it started. there is a fear that the same thing can happen with donald trump, that it will be politicized. that it will not just galvanize and motivate his own base but expand it, have people say this is over, with the report is done, why are democrats focused on this. there is a fear of that pushback based on what happened

historically. you have others saying this is entirely different, especially after robert mueller came out and we heard in his own words that he did not rule out obstruction, he left that to congress, and also the ongoing efforts by the white house to keep other people from testifying, from adhering to subpoenas. that there is this growing movement that i think it's going to make it harder for nancy pelosi to stay on this no impeachment road. the more people come on board, the more members say they want it. >> when you look at the pro impeach and the don't impeach in the democratic party, what's the more cohesive message? 54 of the house democrats are making this case that this is a tool, a key to centralize the investigative work that they may do. >> i've been chatting with people close to the impeachment process the last week or so. one thing a democratic aide told me is that the challenge for members who personally support

impeachment and don't want to come out in favor of it and the challenge for the members who pack it but who aren't putting pressure on the speaker over it is that they all wanting to go to war with donald trump but they realize that before doing that, they have this go to war with nancy pelosi first, and nobody wants to take her on. she's a formidable leader and she really understands the democratic caucus in a way that few prior congressional leaders, at least in the last decade or two, have been able to. for pelosi, meanwhile, the biggest concern and arguably the only concern is keeping the house. the reason the democrats have the house, the reason they can even talk about kboechimpeachmee reason they can do these investigations that are still turning up some pretty interesting stuff is because a whole bunch of democratic candidates won in purple and red districts. and pelosi and her allies are concerned that if they make the next six to nine months about impeachment, that those members will be on much thinner ice than otherwise expected.

so very much plolitical -- impeachment is a political remedy but the calculations that go into whether or not to get it started are also very political. >> jeremy, you've been looking into this as well. the we've heard the president wants to be kbeechimpeached, he goading democrats to impeaching him. how does that resonate with other people in his party? >> having spoken to people who speak to the president, he does not want to be impeached. it's bad for his brand. but he's right about that. it's also bad as far as he's concerned because it would just be such a distraction and such a heavy undertaking. this is not like the mueller report and the years they went through investigating him behind the scenes. this is all conducted in public. it would be such a spectacle, unlike anything that we saw with watergate or even with bill clinton, because the media environment right now is so different. this president has such a

singular ability to dominate coverage and to shift the narrative as he likes to. and really i think we as citizens have never seen anything like i think that would look. going back to what betsy was saying, i'm picking up on a lot of the same things from the democrats in the house. what they are worried about is losing more seats in 2020. that's a big concern, because this president is able to have his voters, his people, take on his fights as if they're their own fights. and by portraying this as a witch hunt, as a redo of the 2016 election while the 2020 re-election is taking place, i think that worries a lot of democrats because they see that as an advantage for the president because he's saying they're sore losers. and you know what, americans really don't like sore losers. >> and a proxy fight. ed, you heard the president unwilling to say impeach, calling it dirty and filthy and disgusting. a few days before that he was speaking in front of the white house in front of farmers and

ranchers and referred to the "i" word. the democrats also seem unwilling to say the word. i talked to senator richard blumenthal last night and he didn't say he was in favor of impeachment but talked about all the investigative powers it would endo yendow him and his colleagues with. what do you think about that there are s >> they're not saying let's impeach him now. they're saying let's get the greater subpoena power that process provides in order to get but let's get the accounting records for the trump organization and subpoenaing don mcgahn and of course robert mueller potentially too and all the kinds of things that could take until next year or beyond. this actually accelerates that, it expedites the whole process.

it unifies the effort of what is a wide array of democratic committee chairs who don't appear to be in coordination with each other. so let's begin proceedings, because this can focus and expedite our investigation and holding into account the trump administration as opposed to let's nail the guy now. and i think if pelosi wants to get out of what is a deepening -- a very difficult quandary for her, this would be the way of justifying the commencement of impeachment proceedings. >> kimberly, lastly to you, this is a didactic process in the way ed is describing. that's the challenge for the house speaker to explain to the american people why this needs to happen. as we talk about deutsche bank records these are granular in the weeds things democrats will have to elewuewis date. how big a challenge is that for

the house leadership. >> it is a big hurdle for the leadership but it's exactly what the people who want the impeachment process to begin are saying. one democrat told me specifically in watergate, it wasn't like this happened and all of a sudden the american public was behind it. there were hearings, there was transparency, it was explained to the american people. the case was made by the congress so by the time it was ready to go forward, the american people were behind it. that the mueller report, most people didn't read it and they want to get this started in order to open this up. once the american people is behind it, that will help nancy pelosi get behind it too. a little later in the show, tom perez, chamber of the democratic committee, will join us to talk more about this. up next, taking a tough stance against mexico or trying to make a hard turn away from robert mueller. the price of avocados are going up and the tensions between the president and his own party are rising as well. e president and his own party are rising as well

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this is "up." i'm david gura, and president trump defying advice from many of his own advisers is threatening to launch the first strike in another trade war, this time with mexico. a reminder of what the president just tweeted a few days ago. on june 10th the united states will impose a 5% tariff on all goods coming into our country from mexico unless that country stops the flow of undocumented mi migrants. he said that tariff will increase every month with a ceiling at 25%. the backlash from business

leaders and lawmakers was swift. chuck grassley, the chair of the senate financial committee, calls it a misuse of presidential tariff authority and counter to congressional intent. ed luce, your reaction to this. we know that this happened in close concert with stephen miller, who was traveling with the president to japan. caught a lot of people by surprise. here we are in this interim before the june 10th start date of these. your sense of whether or not it's going to happen. >> well, it took place the day after the thousand people were at the border and april was the worst month in more than ten years so trump is getting more and more frustrated nothing is happening and his re-election is coming up. he's not going to be able to say he delivered on his promise. he's sort of reaching for whatever weapon is at hand, even against the advice of most of his advisers on this one. and this one is particularly problematic because it cuts against his push to get nancy

pelosi and congress to vote in favor of the nafta 2.0 and that he's negotiated, so they're not going to do that while this is going on. it potentially makes an enemy of the president of mexico who has shown a great forbearance. he's a left populist. going through many trumpian provocations about mexico, he's ignored them. this is much, much, much harder to ignore. 5% rising to 25% screws with the economy of mexico. it also screws with the economy of the united states. and it's damaging the stock market, which i think is probably the ultimate hope of anybody who wants trump to pull back from this before june the 10th, that the stock market dropped 1.5 points -- percentage points on friday after he announced this. if it thinks he's really going to go through with this and having gone through with it escalate 5% each time to 25%,

that could turn america's growth rates into a downturn and potentially a recession. >> you look at the trade conversation about china. there was this whole kerfuffle with huawei and the trade negotiators were adamant these are separate things. they could have the conversation about trade while this national security law enforcement matter was taken care of on a plaralle track. what we're seeing now is trade intersecting with that national security issue, becoming a tool to deal with the other. >> and claims that there's one universe where trade matters and another universe where national security and border security matters is just goofy nonsense. these things are all overlapped, they all relate to each other. you can't divvy up government and the way a country is run into these different her mettically sealed groups or sections. the reality is everything affects everything else. specifically when we look at

this trade challenge with mexico, the biggest question for the administration is going to be what exactly do they demand from the mexican government before lifting these tariffs that get put in place. do they -- the president hasn't to my knowledge put down sort of a clear red line, a clear standard for what the mexican government has to do. the mexican president hinted that he would be open to making changes, to trying to persuade the u.s. they had done enough but it would be on the table they would do more. trump has oddly enough left a lot of latitude for himself to lift these tariffs if he decides the mexicans have made enough progress and he faces domestic pressure. >> jeremy, is this classic stephen miller? when we wonder who has the presidency and who's able to influence him in the moment, what does this say to you? >> it's the kind of thing that drives people in the administration like treasury secretary mnuchin crazy. but i also think that it is a base play, right?

going fwoback to what ed was saying, there's no more central promise that president trump made was i'm going to build the wall and stop the flow of illegal immigration. we have thousands of people showing up at the border on a weekly basis. the highest number of families intercepted by border patrol ever. that's a big problem as far as president trump is concerned, as far as his campaign staff is concerned, as far as some people in the white house, like stephen miller and others have been pushing to try to make this stop so the president doesn't have such a political vulnerability here. you're starting to hear some. i'm not saying this is making his base fall away from him, but there's some cracks. you've started to see it in conservative media. they're saying no more than two miles of the wall have been built and it's been at a cost of a billion dollars a mile or something like that. and that frustration i think pent up over a long enough period of time could be a real problem in depressing turnout for the president.

i don't think we're quite there yet and this base. on the other hand, they really are the people who he could shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue and they would not fall away from him. so it's really hard to tell what the impact of this is going to be on 2020 right now. >> your sense is that trump truism persists here. up next, the remarkable development related to michael flynn causing new scrutiny of president trump's legal team. every day, visionaries are creating the future. so, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country.

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this is "up." i'm david gura. the white house lawyer who was in charge of the president's response to the russia investigation is stepping down. the good-bye memo has been replaced by the good-bye tweet and that is how president trump announced emmet flood is leading the white house with an all caps no collusion, no obstruction coda for good measure. it comes as the attorney general escalate their attacks on robert mueller. rudy giuliani said this last night. >> if you look at the report, it says very clearly that he could not conclude that the president committed obstruction of justice. >> of course that is not true. robert mueller found multiple

examples but to put this in congressman justin amash's parlance, robert mueller put the ball in congress' court. jerry nadler addressed this on new york public radio, w nchnyc >> he's saying, look, my hands are tied. i couldn't indict a sitting president. because i can't indict him, i can't say that he's guilty of a crime because then he would be accused of a crime without the ability in a criminal trial to clear his name and that would be wrong. i think that he could have accused him anyway. >> ken dilanian joins us now. let's start with this emmet flood news. this was expected that he was going to leave the white house, ken. what does it portend for you, his departure from the administration? >> not very much actually, david, because there are other members of the legal team, marty and jane raskin who remain because they are continuing to fight this battle now in the

congressional forum. i guess it signals that we've shifted a little bit. the threat to donald trump is no longer from federal prosecutors and more from congress and this potential impeachment inquiry. >> betsy woodruff, i think of bill barr now as a d.c. comic book hero orrvil villain, depen on your perspective. there's bill barr fireside wearing his camping vest. but let's dig into this issue. i played that clip of jerry nadler talking about that olc memo. help me with the distance we've seen the last few weeks when it comes to what bill barr's perspective is on the justice department's ability to do that. >> it helps to step back and paraphrase this. the olc basically handed down a rule saying the justice department is not allowed to indict sitting presidents. bill barr asked robert mueller if he had done the thought

experiment of imagine this rule doesn't exist, will you indict the president? mueller's response to barr was i didn't do that thought experiment, i'm not going to do it, it's not my job as a federal prosecutor to disappear rules in my head so that i can do analysis that's not connected to reality. barr then responded to mueller and said, well, i think you should have done it anyway and then barr told the public that he and rod rosenstein did that thought experiment, which mueller wasn't interested in doing, and who would have thought, the thought experiment exonerated donald trump. that's basically what bill barr did. that's the conversation that we've seen play out since mueller first gave his report to bill barr. when barr talks about these issues that's the context with which you have to look at it. now, it's frustrating because a lot of democrats would have liked mueller to do that thought experiment. they would have liked him to have been the person to assess whether trump broke the law. but mueller is saying if i'm not

allowed to do it, i'm not going to speculate on it. >> ken, this is a 40-page memo from the 1970s, if i'm not mistaken. >> and there's another view in this which is nowhere in this memo does it say a prosecutor cannot opine the president committed crimes. there's a growing thought that mueller blew it here. that he layered on a fairness doctrine that does not exist in the olc opinion. he's got his reasons for it, he has a very good appellate lawyer that decided this is the way he had to go. but i don't think anybody at the beginning of this investigation believed that if mueller had found the president had committed crimes, he couldn't say so. what if he had found a collusion between russian government? i think that is what is leaving congress in such a difficult position here because jerry nadler says this is all but an impeachment referral. but giuliani and the republicans

look at it and say absolutely not. he presents evidence of obstructive conduct but doesn't say it amounted to obstruction of justice. he presents evidence that potentially exonerates the president in the report. he was the guy who marinated in this evidence for two years. if a thousand federal prosecutors look at this and believe there is a case to indict the president if he wasn't the president, why didn't mueller and his team say so? that's the issue here. >> kimberly atkins, it brings into relief the dynamic between bill barr, bob mueller on this press conference. bob mueller saying there was no discord between the two of them. where do you see all of this heading? bill barr said bob mueller can go to the hill and testify if he's asked to do so or wants to do so. your sense of where all of this leads? >> robert mueller made very clear that he is not going to say anything more than he has already said -- >> that's his testimony. >> that's his testimony. it's written in his report that i think a lot of people surprisingly still haven't read

because everything that he said in this press conference had already been said in this report and he just reiterated it. i think the difference, though -- yes, you have a.g. barr setting things up in one way and using this thought experiment and the folks in the house doing otherwise. the difference is a.g. barr and giuliani and others have misrepresented what robert mueller said in a way that jerry nadler did not. robert mueller did not say no obstruction, no collusion. robert mueller very clearly said if we had found that the president was exonerated, we would have said so. i could not say that he wasn't exonerated or that he could have been brought up by a charge so that's unfair. it's the exact opposite of what attorney general barr said. attorney general barr said the olc did not play a part in this. clearly it did very specifically. so you have in the attorney general, the president has, he doesn't need emmet flood anymore, he has somebody standing up and being his attorney and representing his side even when he is not being completely truthful about what was in that report and even when confronted with this idea of you have a reputation in that cbs

interview, he says everybody dies. so he is ride or die. he is ride or die for this president. so that's where we are. >> jeremy, your reaction to what we saw on wednesday? and i'm particularly interested in his self assurance that he could go to the hill and not be asked about anything else or not be forced to respond or rely to any other questions outside the scope of that 480-page report. >> i think if you're a democrat, you looked at that press conference -- actually it wasn't really a press conference because he didn't take any questions. it was just a statement. you saw the power of it. you saw the power of it to change the conversation around impeachment. there's probably nobody in washington who's testified more before congress than robert mueller. and he's proven very deft at that. he's very well prepared. he would be a very tough guy to interview, in my opinion. and that applies to democrats and republicans. however, if you're a democrat and looking at that, you're thinking, wow, who's this guy

who just by appearing on camera had the ability to completely shift the narrative back towards something which the democrats would like. they like it and don't like it because there's all this pressure on them to impeach. but at least it gives them something to work with. and i think that by -- at the very least they have to call him back to the hill. they may have to subpoena him, but they want him on television saying what he said, a version of that again, even though he may not go beyond the report, just because it was such a dramatic scene. >> ed luce, the oracle speaks, the sphynx speaks. i've heard a lot of congress people saying the book was good, but you've got to see the movie. i'm paraphrasing hakeem jeffries saying that's what's going to happen if bob mueller was called to the hill to testify. there are many americans who haven't read this document in full. how important would that be to have him up there to articulate, to read from or comment on

what's in that report. >> 99.9% of americans i doubt have read the 480 pages. i don't blame them. it's worth the effort, though, i have to say. ten minutes on tv, as jeremy just pointed out, is worth more than two and a half years worth of 448 pages of a report in thames of public impact. so it doesn't matter really whether mueller says anything new or not on the hill. if it is televised, he can just read excerpts of what he's written. fine, read out excerpts. can we ask you, mr. mueller, to read out why you think this election was systematically hijacked by a foreign power. and i think the impact of that would be enormous. just one point about a.g. barr saying that he didn't believe in this idea that your reputation and immortality is about --

about how posterity would judge him for what he's doing for his missummarization of this, i think he was basically saying i've got another principle which is the homer simpson one. since we've got doughnuts in front of us,in grash yat yourself now and at all times without regard to posterity. i think that's something that is quite extraordinary in the most senior official in the land. it is quite extraordinary behaving. >> toast to that. thank you very much. ken dilanian joining us from his home state, the baystate this morning, ken, thank you very much. for more on how the special counsel's comments have affected the conversation about impeachment, don't miss a primetime special tonight hosted by my colleague, ari melber. here's ari with a preview. >> hi, i'm ari melber. tonight i'll have the secret timeline of how this probe ended and the report went public. we'll dig into how mueller's statement is reigniting the impeachment debate and discuss his final warning to the nation.

an msnbc special "mueller speaks" airing tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern. nancy pelosi speaking to members of her party yesterday to an audience imploring her to impeach. reaction from dnc chair tom perez as the house speaker tries to keep her caucus in check. >> you don't bring an indictment or you don't bring an impeachment unless you have all of the facts, the strongest possible case. po this is the couple who wanted to get away who used expedia to book the vacation rental which led to the discovery

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and i will close by reiterating the central allegation of our indictment, that there were multiple, systematic efforts to interfere in our election, and that allegation deserving the attention of every american. >> a man who needs no intro dub, that was special counsel robert mueller, announcing his departure from the justice department and emphasizing repeatedly how russia interfered in the 2016 election. that interference, of course,

led to the departure of the head of the dnc and added fuel to primaries that were burning hot ahead of the democratic convention. hacked emails gave candidate donald trump plenty of fauder for his campaign. joining us is tom perez, the chairman of the democratic national committee. let me start with how that press conference or press availability was book-ended. he talked about what happened in 2016, how grave that was and indeed how grave that threat is. your reaction to that, because it seemed like over the course of the last few weeks after that report was released, that was lost on a lot of people. >> well, i think it was lost on a lot of people. i think what we saw from his statement to me, it illustrates the need to get the entire report because he said more than once the report speaks for itself. well, we don't have the entire report so we don't know exactly what it speaks to. and i worked at the department of justice under republican and democratic administrations for over a decade. and i think what we have to keep doing now is investigating.

we've won at least a couple cases in federal courts because the subpoena authority is very clear. chairman neal's subpoena authority to get the tax returns is very clear, and so we have to continue to be methodical. the ethic that i learned as a career prosecutor is the ethic that says you have to gather the facts. and we must continue to gather the fact. i had plenty of cases, david, where the other side was obstructing. this is very real stuff. the russians tried and had substantial progress in the 2016 election in throwing the election from one candidate to another. they did it with impunity. this president continues to believe putin over our intelligence officers. they're going to do it again and that's why the investigation must continue. >> if i had a dictionary here i'd look up investigation, flip back a few pages and there's impeachment. you're saying investigation and not impeachment. >> again, i think you need to

gather facts before you move forward. >> what do you say to those that say that's the way to do it. impeachment is the process through which we could get that investigation. >> you have many ways in which you can get information. it's the oversight process. congressman neal is using a tool that came about in the aftermath of the tea pot dome scandal under warren harding to get information about this president. here -- one thing is clear. there's a culture of corruption that has engulfed this administration, and the house needs to continue to do it. here's something else that's equally clear to me. if our goal is to remove donald trump, the only way to do it is november the 3rd, 2020, at the ballot box. and by the way, i prosecuted a lot of cases under the obstruction statutes. they have a five-year statute of limitations. you gather the facts, as mueller said you preserve the evidence. in the meantime we expose not only the culture of obstruction,

there's a culture of obstruction of progress in the united states senate. what the american people wanting to know is who's helping to keep my health care? who's helping to reduce gun violence? again, another horrific incident yesterday. so i think what we have to do is walk and chew gum and we've demonstrated a capacity to do that. >> betsy woodruff of the daily beast has a question, i know. >> you've read the mueller report, right? >> i've read a lot of it. >> you haven't read the whole thing? >> we haven't gotten the whole thing. >> you've read the part that's been released. >> yes. >> so is it your view as of now in that view there's not enough information currently available to justify democrats moving to impeach trump? your view is that it does not have enough material there for impeachment to make sense yet? >> my view, and i prosecuted a lot of high-profile cases involving public officials. the most frequently asked question i would get is when are you going to indict tomorrow or why won't you indict tomorrow?

and the ethic that i learned from over a decade serving republican and democratic administrations is you gather the facts. there are so many questions that one must answer before you move to that. as you correctly pointed out, david, before, the arc of watergate was a two and a half year arc of further investigation. and so you have two subpoenas that they stonewalled and courts have said you have to turn it over. there's going to be more like that. it's important to be methodical because this is important to do. and at the same time, again, it's important to make sure the american people know that hra was a background check bill. we're fighting to address the issues people care about. and again, we will not -- one thing that we must be clear about, the only way to remove donald trump from office is at the ballot box on november the 3rd, 2020. >> ed luce, you have a question. >> the house has passed a for

the people act to strengthen the integrity of american elections. zero chance of mitch mcconnell allowing that to come to a vote in the senate. we're going to conduct the 2020 elections without any improvement in the election infrastructure. what is wrong with beginning impeachment proceedings, not saying we're going to impeach but using it as a tool to uncover stuff that we still don't know, such as his taxes, such as the trump organization's financial records, hugely important things that an impeachment process would give congress the lever to uncover? >> the point i'm making is that we must continue to do the oversight. i support congressman neal's efforts to get his tax returns. i think the courts will ultimately uphold the authority of the congress to do that. i support other efforts to subpoena documents when they are not providing the information. we need to have witnesses come and testify. if they refuse to testify, we should go to court and use the

process to do that. that is what fact gathering is about. i've had cases where fact gathering was very linear and easy and i've had cases where i had to zig and zag because the other side was stonewalling. and that's what you have had to. that's what good prosecutors do. that's what good oversight does. and at the same time, what the president wants is he does not want anyone to be thinking about on november the 3rd the fact that he's trying to make it harder for people to keep their health care. health care was the number one issue in 2018. the president wanted to talk about caravans because he was hoping people didn't think about health care. we're fighting to improve the lives of people on the issues that matter most to people. health care, making sure that -- if you don't have health care security, you don't have economic security. and he is hoping that that conversation doesn't occur. we have to walk and chew gum. we can do that as a democrat. >> stick around, i'm implore you

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the candidates will have to meet. 130,000 donors, they have to hit 2% in four qualifying polls. there are many candidates who say it's early. we're at the beginning of this campaign. they're pushing back on what they see is restrictive thresholds. >> we've been very inconclusive. we've consulted with a wide array of stakeholders, none of whom were affiliated with a campaign. when we set the 1% and the 65,000, that was unprecedented because there's never been a pathway to the debate stage other than polling. and we gave people four months to do it. what we heard early on was please give us enough time. and so every debate, every primary process, if you look back at history, there's always been a stair step.

you have to continue to demonstrate progress. and so if you have 80,000 donors right now toward the threshold, 130,000 means you need 50,000 more. over a dozen of the candidates, and we'll know exactly on june the 13th of how many have reached the donor threshold. but we know it's over a dozen. they've been able to do this. i firmly believe that if you can't connect with the grassroots, you can't win the presidency. that's what our design was. we're going to continue to be fair and give these candidates three months. and then we have two debates, the first of which is on msnbc -- >> shameless plug. >> and we're excited to partner with you. and what -- i think what will happen is you'll have these candidates who have these breakthrough moments and you can

raise -- you can get 30,000 donors. these are donors who have to give a dollar. >> let me ask you one more quickly, how surprised are you by the bevy of candidates that you have? how important is it to winnow that number down? >> it's a challenge, but i -- i had the privilege, david, of working with the vast majority of them. they're remarkable of people. everyone running for president believes that everyone should have access to quality, affordable health care, they understand that climate change is real and we must follow the science. i think viewers are going to be so impressed and what i often say is, fall in love with multiple candidates in the primary and then we must fall in line together behind our nominee. and our job is simply. if we have 24 people running, 23

people aren't going to make it to the mountain top. that's why we've taken unprecedented steps to make sure this process is transparent and inconclusive and fair to everybody. >> the chairman advocating for electoral pally am ri. >> while we have this big field on the democratic side, we have donald trump who is able to make a very clear message to his folks, is there in reality, a desire to winnow this down so that democratic voters aren't overwhelmed feeling like they need to get to know more than two dozen people. isn't there a real desire -- one reason to raise these thresholds is to get it down to a manageable number. >> i think that's going to happen over time, i also think it's not the role of the chair of the party to put the thumb on the scale to say, hey, you should get out. that should be up to the voters.

and we -- we are raising these thresholds by a reasonable amount because you do have to demonstrate fairness. and these two debates are going to give additional opportunities, you've been doing town halls, and i think those things are really, really important for voters to really kick the tires on the candidates. and that is why i think this will happen. again, what we have in common, every single democrat is going to be talking about health care as a right for all and not a privilege for a view. every candidate is going to be talking about the fact that we must combat climate change, we must do more so we don't have another virginia beach. we must do more to protect women's economic empowerment and women's constitutional rights to control their bodies. and all of the democrats will be talking about that. so i think this will happen and i think at the end of the day we

will have an engaged electorate, an excited electorate and the nominee will be able to hit the ground running. the contrast couldn't be more stark between our democrats and this president. >> we are out of time. i was going to ask you to name all two dozen of them. tom perez joining us here on set. thank you to my panel as well. and coming up in the next hour, president trump's preparing for a state visit to the united kingdom offering some controversial comments about british politics and the monarchy, and the 2020 contenders get more than they bargained for in the state of california. >> hey, hey, hey. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ applebee's new loaded fajitas. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. but i can tell you liberty mutual customized my applebee's new loaded fajitas.

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♪ this is up. the largest gathering of presidential hopefuls we have seen this far is taking place in california. the state's democratic party is having its convention and they were a couple of ancillary events as well. cory booker had a breakout moment last night. he gave a speech on gun policy hours after the mass shooting in virginia beach. >> it's time that we come together and stand together and take a fight to the nra and the

corporate gun lobby like we have never seen before. >> california is home turf for a couple of candidates including kamala harris who is hoping to take home a good chunk of the delegates in the state. polls have her in third place. she's trailing joe biden who did not make the pilgrimage to california. senator harris used her speech to call for the impeachment of president trump. >> he obstructed justice and then hired an attorney general to clean up the crime scene. we need to begin impeachment proceedings and we need a new commander in chief. >> that was the speech. but this was the moment that caught many by surprise. a protester jumping on stage, he grabs the microphone and moderator gets between the two of them and things are settled here a few moments later. >> hey, hey, hey.

hey, hey. >> hi, hi. >> with me paul butler, alexi mccammond, a political reporter, kevin cirilli, and josh lederman. josh, let me start with you and help us understand the import of this event. a lot of people say this event draws a more progressive brand of democrats. but they're all there to speak to give their policy platforms. why is it so important and how given the change to the primary system is it taken on new importance. >> first of all, just the fact that california plays such a pivotal role for the democratic base. so many democrats that are located in california, but also the shift to moving california earlier in the primary schedule

makes it earlier more of a focus for trying to show early on that you're making progress, that you have momentum and so the candidates are making sure they have a strong showing there. >> your reaction to what you heard there? there was some talk of impeachment, there were talks of these other democratic platform issues. >> there's also a lot of donors in california as well. it's incredibly important for a lot of these candidates in such a crowded field to be able to meet with some of these donors and i think the issue of impeachment has become one of the most rallying cries for a lot of these democrats. it's made nancy pelosi's job very interesting in the house. but i was struck by former vice president's joe biden's absence and also that he's been arguably the most restrained on calling for impeachment. i cannot wait to see on a debate stage how that dynamic plays out, whether or not the former vice president faces pressure to go all in on the issue of

impeachment or whether he holds his own. is he going to make that more centrist pitch or is he going to have to follow suit? >> i'm going to read from the san francisco chronicle, it's as much as political realities as any specific time commitment. he doesn't have to be at the convention, so he won't be. >> he was in ohio. that makes total sense with how joe biden is running this general election campaign and focusing on these midwestern states which will be crucial. we all remember hillary clinton getting bashed for not going to places like wisconsin enough which is not the only reason she lost. joe biden is very clearly focused on the midwest and i think what's interesting is looking at the way in which someone like john hickenlooper was perceived, they booed him because he was not progressive enough. that was something joe biden could have walked into himself.

going is to a place like ohio is much more politically palatable for someone like him. >> paul butler, you heard kamala harris saying she needs to clean up the crime scene. impeachment is something she talks about a lot. she talked about it in california as well. there was a moment during that convention where the house speaker was addressing the audience there and a roar went up, people were chanting for impeachment. do we have the sound of this? >> as -- i told you this, president trump will be held accountable in the congress, in the courts, and in the court of public opinion. we will defend our democracy. >> what does that tell you? we've seen this debate play out via proxy. she's said the same thing in interviews but hadn't encountered that kind of resistance yet? >> i'm one of those 1,000 former

federal prosecutors who signed that statement saying we think we could convict trump of obstruction of justice. i would love to have him brought to justice. at the same time i get where speaker pelosi is coming from. the house could vote to impeach trump tomorrow and there's not the vote in the senates to remove him from office. pelosi thinks that impeachment could backfire by energizing people to come out in support of trump and help getting him re-elected. remember that old-school song "keep your eyes on the prize," the prize is removing trump from office. the prize is not impeachment. >> we'll see how long she can hold on. you've been covering pete buttigieg. he's not shy that there needs to be more to keep the president in

check. >> he's stopped just short of calling for impeachment proceedings. there's plenty of evidence for it. the president deserves to be impeached, it's up to the house. it's not my place to tell congress what to do. it's been interesting to see how so many of these candidates have struggled on where to draw the line and when to move into that category of calling for impeachment -- >> the senators feel pretty comfortable. is that a fair read when you look at kamala harris -- >> booker it was only after mueller gave his press conference on wednesday that booker was able to get there. you see people kind of trying to find where is the time where i'm not going to look like i'm rushing to judgment but i'm not also looking like i'm behind the curve with all of these other 20-some odd democrats. >> when we're talking about impeachment, this happened last week when elizabeth warren wrote a post about reserving the olc

guidance. we're seeing cory booker would support the same. they're now sort of coming out and saying instead of talking about impeachment, they're talking about whether or not they would support that guidance of whether or not a sitting president can be indicted. you're getting at the rule of law, who's held accountable and whether or not they would want themselves held accountable and held to that same standard if they were elected as president. >> i think when you look at someone like former vice president biden, he's not running for the democratic progressive test, he's running as joe biden. it seems right now when you look at the democratic primary going on, the convention yesterday, that a lot of these democrats were trying to say they were more democrat or more progressive than the other. joe biden is not playing that game. senator elizabeth warren is also not playing that game. she was immediately out front on

the issue of impeachment. i think the test is going to be how in such a crowded field, some of these other senators kind of get out of the whole poll-tested mechanisms, and what the pollsters are saying and take a deep breath and say this is what i actually believe. and i think joe biden and senator warren are doing that. >> none of these people who are supporting impeachment -- and i totally get it. i would like to see that political stain on president trump's political obituary even if it is symbolic. but if the idea is to get him out of office, what happens after impeachment? how do they respond to the concern of firing up the base. i think we youngsters need to respect the political skills of speaker pelosi. even i'm a youngster compared to speaker pelosi. >> let me play a bit of tape here. i was speaking with cory booker yesterday after he delivered

that forceful speech on gun policy, and i asked him about electability. it's something that joe biden has embraced. let's take a listen to what he had to say. >> a lot of your opponents talking about electability. help us understand your perspective on that. what's the message that you're carrying to voters in california about that? >> as a guy who's a son of a woman from los angeles, a graduate from stanford university, a lot of folks have been familiar with the way i fight for a long time. i had to beat the most powerful machine in new jersey. they made a documentary about it called street fight. folks know that this former stanford tight end can bring a good fight in politics and win races that people say can't be won. this isn't about just beating donald trump. that's a floor. what i'm calling for is much bigger aspirations.

>> he knows a lot of donors in california as well. what did you make of the speech that he gave there? he's putting a lot of faith that gun policy is going to be a platform that's going to resonate with a lot of people in this country. he pushed back and said he doesn't want to talk about politics. this is beyond politics. of course there's some politics he has to deal with if he wants to deal with that issues. >> is this an election where inspiring is what beats donald trump? with regard to the whole electability issue, when we have this conversation, the most electable people always turn out to be the white guys in the race. that's a concern. i think senator harris is very electable. i think senator warren is very electable. why don't we hear that conversation asked about mr. biden, are you really electable? i think there are major questions there that don't get asked? >> he gave a pretty good tinder

profile, 6'3" former tight end. >> that is n-- the megan markle donald trump feud, next.

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president trump heading to the uk monday for a state visit and will participant in events. the trip coincides with the final days of theresa may's tenure. president trump weighing in on that as he has before causing controversy this time by praising boris johnson as machine who could succeed prime minister may. then there's this comment he made about megan markle. take a listen. >> she said she'd move to canada if we got elected. turned out she moved to britain. >> a lot of people moving here. i didn't know she was nasty. >> he says he didn't call her nasty saying i never called megan markle nasty, made up and they got caught cold. mike viqueira joins us from the white house. set the table here for us.

what's the is he going to do in europe. >> a diplomat is someone who can tell you to go to hades and make you look forward to the trip. niceties and the conventions of diplomacy just like a lot of other parts of the presidency and the ceremonies involved, the customs, the president has been busting those for two years now, and no change here as he prepares to head overseas. these state visits, there's an opening ceremony, a welcoming ceremony, a state dinner, a lot of pomp and ceremony and you're going to see the president in the spotlight there. it was last year when he visited central london. there were a quarter of a million protestors waiting for him. this triumph he's going to be in the center of a very big stage. there are those ceremonies i was talking about at buckingham palace, at westminster abby.

there's the state dinner of course. the president is going to be going to ireland, staying near his golf course meeting with the leader of the irish republic and doing some golfing and then he goes across the channel for an afternoon commemorating the 75th anniversary of d day, the very moving sight there. i was there for the 70th with president obama. but he's going to go back to ireland and remain overnight there as well on his property. >> mike viqueira at the white house teaching us a little bit about diplomacy. >> we remember that first state visit. situate it in terms of the politics of the uk. there's a real dilemma ma in the united kingdom at this point and when this trip was announced, theresa may's fate may have been

ordained. >> it's hard to find another country who's politics at the moment are more messy or uncertain than the united states. maybe israel at the moment as well. but this is a really volatile time for britain and president trump is not one to approach the situation like that and say, you know, this is someone's problem. we've already seen him leaning in on this, talking about who should be the next prime minister there. and i think we can expect that president trump, you know, is going to become part of that story. he likes to insert himself in the story. we know that brits are anticipating that. we've seen some of the coverage out of the uk, sky news airing this funny ad, trump is coming back, you saw what happened last time. everyone there is really on edge for the fact that things could go haywire in a number of different ways. >> last week we were talked during his state visit to japan

about how he was weighing in on domestic politics. your reaction to all of that? norms have been shattered. >> what we know about president trump is two things, one, he loves strong men. it will be interesting to see how he interacts with theresa may. her leaving, him perceiving her to be weak and how he treats her because of that. and he talks about whatever he wants, even if it's not relate today the task at hand. that could be joe biden and something like joe biden. that could be anything going on here in the u.s. with the 2020 election. what we'll be looking for is any number of deviations he's making and how it's taking everything off task. >> what are you going to be watching for? >> there are parallels here. this is a president who feels a lot of similarities with the brexit movement and his election into the white house. and we saw this when he was on the campaign trail, when he touched down in scotland on the

day of brexit. we saw this in remarks where he says they call me mr. brexit. he feels a real connection to it. when you think back to steve bannon's time within the administration, steve bannon was internationally interlaced with the rise of brexit and when you look at someone like boris johnson, for example, there's a lot of geopolitics here at play. i think the broader take away though is from an economic standpoint, you take a look at what traders are going to be keeping an eye on, but from a small and medium-sized business perspective, brexit has a lot of economic risk. and in terms of the tariffs and trade policies that we've seen, europeans are incredibly, incredibly nervous, anxious about the uncertainty that's being projected. we're not just seeing that internationally, we're seeing that from republicans as well.

>> the president can go to japan, make the faux pas that he made while he was there, we'll talk about it for a little bit. who knows what he'll talk about and yet we move on. what does that say about the power that he has, our ability to ignore it and what really might up end things? >> every time this president goes overseas, he embarrasses us. whether it's standing in he lynn ski and believing vladimir putin over u.s. intelligence. it's embarrassing to us. it's something we get used to but should not get used to. he's already said one dumb thing. he's not even in the uk yet. we know it will be something

that will be embarrassing to us. >> we're going to leave it there. the crime bill, a political vulnerability for vice president joe biden. the president is ready to talk about it and so are the vice president's rivals for the democratic nomination. direct messages have evolved. so should the way you bank. virtual wallet from pnc bank. just one way pnc is modernizing banking to help make things easier. pnc bank. make today the day.

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i wish some people would do a little more research and see exactly how we got to where we are. the fact of the matter is, we on the democratic side did a good job to put in the kind of prevention programs, the preventive funding in the bill and we got to understand. the republicans wanted that and we found a compromise that everybody could live with. >> welcome back to up. that was the house majority whip defending parts of the 1994 crime bill and urging 2020 candidates not to single out democrats who found common ground on the issues. he's referring to kamala harris and cory booker who have been outspoken by the legislation which was written by senator joe biden and signed into law by president bill clinton. they argue it contributed to mass incarceration.

president trump is taking shots at the former vice president's role in crafting the bill. during that same period donald trump called for the death penalty for five black boys wrongly convicted of raping a woman in new york city. we're joined by garrett haake who's covering the campaign. joe biden could give a big interview about his decision to do this in the past. that hasn't happened. how has he been engaged? >> joe biden has been defending the crime bill since it became law in 1994. he does so sometimes unbidden in his book, for example. i can tell you that the discussions continue. it was just earlier this week

when the new national co-chair for the biden campaign said in an interview with the "new york times" that this is something that needs to be put in context. he said you got to go back to 1994 and look at what would it be like if congress has failed to act then during what a lot of people viewed as an epidemic of crime in this country and look at how the bill was implemented over time. i think we are probably going to see joe biden address this in a more fulsome way at this point. that context is really important. we talk about this bill in shorthand because of the effect on incarsuations across the country. the assault weapons ban was in this bill, the violence against women act was in this bill. the reason we have sex offender register registries was in that bill. if joe biden doesn't do it proactively, it will be brought

to his doorstep in one of these debates. >> garrett haake joining us from ohio. thank you for joining us on this sunday. and paul butler, i want to turn to you, you've within this book about the criminal system and black americans in particular and i just want to get your read on the discourse that's surrounding your crime bill, the distinction that vice president biden was making was happening at the state level. your read on that from the work you've done? >> this is very good news that president trump and joe biden are competing about who's best on criminal justice reform. this is a signature moment. senator booker has talked about his own experiences as an african-american man. senator kamala harris has some explaining to do about some of

the actions she took as a prosecutor. with former vice president biden, his name is on that crime bill as one of his signature bills and whether he likes it or not, it was one of the things that's responsible for mass incarceration for the new jim crow. it was tough on crime, but it wasn't smart on crime which is the direction that we need to go. of course president trump has his own baggage on this issue among other things as the teaser said, he wanted to execute the central park five. he took out that ad in the new york tabloids. these are five young african-american men who were later exonerated of a crime that trump thought that they should be put to death for. >> how do you see this being navigated by the vice president, kamala harris, cory booker, and others? >> it's interesting. garrett was mentioning this, if

joe biden doesn't take this on proakively, it will show up on his doorstep. what's interesting to me is that when i've been on the campaign trail, and maybe you have stories too, i don't hear criminal justice coming up all the time from voters. we hear climate change, immigration, health care, it doesn't mean that people don't care about it. but i'm interested to see how that discussion ramps up from voters. it also bring us up an interesting opportunity for candidates to frame their messaging in a way that is recognizing the past. maybe not apologizing for all of it, pointing out the good parts of the bill, acknowledging how it created problems in this country, but using it as an opportunity to put a plan for the future forward. and say, these are the mistakes or the ways in which this bill went wrong when it was implemented. here's what i would do to make things go right. and here's what i understand

about the current situation with the criminal justice system. and he's how i want to address that rather than dancing around the issue of, oh, should i apologize for this thing i did in 1994 or not. >> let's spend these last couple of minutes talking about this. josh, i'll start with you. talk about that calculus, that opportunity for joe biden to do this, to talk about these issues broadly maybe outside of the vacuum of politics here, what are they weighing as they think of whether or not to do that. why do you think joe biden hasn't talked about this in a big speech or big interview? >> i think he's looking for the right way to discuss it -- >> and that will be because of demand? >> the crime bill issue speaks to the fundamental challenge for biden's campaign for president in that nobody really thinks that joe biden is a racist who was on a mission to incarcerate more african-americans. but when you've been in office for 40 years, the politics on any number of issues are going

to have shifted dramatically. what was a supportable position decades ago is not going to be. and we don't know how any of these other candidates who we're talking about would have voted in 1994 on this crime bill because they weren't in office. but that was the zeitgeist of the moment. and for joe biden he has to find ways to explain things from long ago that other candidates don't without making it look like he's a relic of the past. >> that's the challenge for joe biden -- >> what about bernie sanders? this is the thing, it's almost -- when i talk to sources in biden world, they say why is former vice president biden the other candidate in this race who is being critiqued by his record? what about bernie sanders who only had one law -- he's only been the cosponsor of one law that's been enacted. i think -- i think that in terms of the biden campaign right now had made a calculation that they don't feel he needs to be out on every sunday show, that they don't feel he needs to show up

to all of these conventions right now. it's early for political junkies like us, but today is the first day of pride month. joe biden was out front of barack obama on the issue of marriage equality. i think that once he finally gets to catch his breath and starts talking about this, i think you're going to be hearing a different story. >> we're talking about the crime bill, looking back to 1994, but to the point of people talking about criminal justice. we were talking about gun policy earlier. do you sense there's a more opening for engaging in this? >> the only bill that was passed with bipartisan support during this last term was about criminal justice reform. with regard to biden, i do wonder what this says about his political skills. this is the third time he's run for president. he's never won because he seems to have a hard time admitting he

was wrong. sanders has admitted that there were mistakes made with regard to anita hill, the crime bill, this is a man who just refuses to say that he did something wrong. >> we're going to leave it there. it's being billed as the deal of the century. jared kushner's plan for middle east peace amid political upheaval in israel. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith. who we paired with a humana team member to help address his own specific health needs. at humana, we take a personal approach to your health, to provide care that's just as unique as you are. no matter what your name is. ♪ were mistakes made with regard upheaval in israel. can ys c

on. you get your perfect find at a price to match, on your own schedule. you get fast and free shipping on the things that make your home feel like you. that's what you get when you've got wayfair. so shop now! ♪ this is up. jared kushner heads to london today head of the president's state visit. kushner making his way there from the middle east where he's been trying to sell foreign leaders on a plan for middle east peace he's cooked up. the deal is thin on details, there's more trouble. israel is going through a political crisis. benjamin netanyahu failed to former a government.

on thursday, prime minister netanyahu boasted about a gift he received from president trump, a map showing the golan heights as part of israel. >> translator: jared kushner brought me the updated map which includes the golan heights and the sovereignty of israel there is the signature of president trump and he writes here "nice." and i'm saying very nice. >> josh, i'm going to turn to you first and ask you about this plan and put it in the context of what jared kushner has been charged to do by the u.s. president. senior adviser to the president, in charge of middle east peace, white house innovations director, responsible for criminal justice reform.

i think that's a sample of some of the things he's been charged with. what's the status of this? that he's coming up with this plan, that there's going to be a plan, there is the deal of century and the jared kushner is the man equipped to do this deal. >> certainly a lot of skepticism that jared kushner, a person who's never served in government before, is really best able to negotiate a peace deal that has alluded every politician and leader for centuries. and on this peace plan, this trip that he's on right now was supposed to be where he was laying the groundwork to finally unveil this. he was meeting with the jordanians, israelis, trying to get all of your allies in line so they have the best chance for success. instead while he's in the region, this thing collapses because the israeli government dissolves itself, the future of their leadership uncertain

whether netanyahu will be able to form a coalition and stay in power. the whole peace plan is based on the idea that you have netanyahu in there bringing israel's right wing along for some concessions they're going to have to make. the administration is saying they're going to go ahead with this economic part of the plan that they plan to roll out in just a few weeks, but they're not saying what's going to happen with the critical part which is the political part. the land and what's the future for palestinian statehood. that's on hold until there's a moment where it seems like it can work. >> kevin cirilli, fans of the show know i keep going back to hanoi when president trump was asked a question and spoke about this deal happening. there was an awareness that the north korean deal was falling apart and he began looking to the middle east as an opportunity for him. as you look at what the foreign policy objectives are, where does this fit in? >> i think it's a central piece

of the president's foreign policy. when i talk to sources at the state department, they tell me, look, this is eclipsed every other administration but it doesn't mean the united states should stop trying ever. i think the question becomes for benjamin netanyahu, can he hold onto power, number two, let's not forget, if you look at popularity polls, president trump enjoys the highest popularity in israel as a result of his israeli policies. and quite honestly already a lot of democrats who like portions of what the president stands for on israel. and i think in the broader context, domestically why this matters is if you look at the debate really that has emerged in the democratic party on some of the israel u.s. issues, domestically there are many democrats who are a bit skeptical about how that debate

has materialized. >> i know that your hbo show, jared kushner sitting down for an interview. help us understand the dynamic between father-in-law and son-in-law. and why he's been such invested in a way that he can make policy -- >> thank you. 6:00 p.m. jared kushner is being interviewed on many issues. look, the president is someone who really values those close to him who are most loyal and he considers his family members to be among the most loyal folks to him. jared kushner has become someone like that but who has been given outsized power given his lack of

political experience. we've seen that with criminal justice reform. when i talk to democrats who are in the negotiating room with him, they say jared kushner couldn't answer basic questions about criminal justice reform. we see the way energy he's trying to get this middle east peace deal done. but there's this weird timing where the election is happening, a new government will be formed in israel in october and then we're getting close to the primaries. what i'll be looking for is that relationship between trump and kushner manifesting in a way that as trump's relationship with netanyahu is getting cozier and cozier, will kushner have to take that into account. he stonewalled merrick garland's approval to the supreme court. that's next. proval to the supreme court. that's next. is what you've always wanted. no compromise. twice the results. guaranteed. miracle-gro performance organics.

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the door shut on president obama naming a replacement during his last year in office. >> the american people should have a say in the court's direction. it is a president's constitutional right to nominate a supreme court justice and it is the senate's constitutional right to act as a check on a president and withhold its consent. >> the kentucky republican considers his move to block democratic efforts to place merrick garland on the supreme court one of his finest achievements in politics. >> one of my proudest moments is when i looked at president obama in the eye and i said, mr. president, you will not fill this supreme court vacancy. >> paul butler, you look at how this has been reported, there was push back from the majority lead leader's communication staff, they said the reason this happened was because there was a democrat controlling the white house, republicans were controlling the senate. i saw a piece that spoke to that distinction. yes, the leader may have made that dis inks it at a few points, when you listen to the

overarching theme that wasn't what he was hammering home. it was the fact there was an election around the corner. >> senator mcconnell is such a calculating cynical leader, he always puts politics over principle, over the right thing to do. he is an illustration of everything that's wrong with american politics at this moment. you know, "the new yorker" cover last week depicts senator mcconnell shining trump's boots. i think that's an adequate demonstration of where we are now. but you know what they say about pay back, so, again, if this is what the republicans are going to do now, at some point the democrats are going to be back in power, they will have an opportunity to affirm senate -- or the senate will have an opportunity to affirm supreme court nominees and so, again, if we're going to do this back and forth, it's the country at the end of the day that's going to lose. >> alexei, your reaction to all of this, the fury surrounding all of this. mitch mcconnell would be proud

of the fact he's being labeled as cynical, he is a shrewd politician. >> look, there is one thing that is clear and it is republicans will do what trump wants and mcconnell has proven to do whatever trump wants and trump won in part because of campaigning on the supreme court and filling it with conservative judges and justices. at every level, not just at the spect, around the country and he has followed through on that process. when i talk to republicans and republican activists and activist groups across the country they bring that up to this day, they love president trump and the republican party for the way they are appointing more conservative judges and justices. that is something mcconnell will pride himself on, knows it's something that can help republicans keep control in the senate especially, maybe even gain control of the house or pick up more seats in the house next time. he is using that to push forward on this and he doesn't really care that it looks hypocritical because donald trump is president and almost everything he does is a hypocrisy. >> kevin, the judicial waves

keep rolling. this is a huge one and one he says has the chance to make the most difference for the longest period of time. >> senate majority leader mitch mcconnell like him or loath him he likes to put points on the board and it viewing it as a potential three-point shot josh, your reaction to this all of this. where do we go from here? what do democrats have as opportunity to push back on this. we haven't seen much resistance to the fact we had all these judges being pushed through at lower levels. >> not a lot of opportunity to push back effectively. if you look back to merrick garland i think when mcconnell first came out and said we are not going to confirm this guy because there is an election around the corner, people said, yeah, okay, but there is a vacant seat, the president has nominated him you have to at least hold a erring had a. they didn't. it leads to this, okay, so republicans do this this next, next time the tables are turned democrats will play by the same rules. it speaks to this broader erosion -- it's the same thing

with the filibuster which we have continued to erode, if you do it we are going to do it. it's kind of this race to the bottom that i think has made a lot of voters feel like our democratic system has gone off the rails. >> paul, where do we go from here? you know, we talk about the opportunities for push back by the democrats in the future, but when you look at the judiciary today, when you look at the supreme court how much it's been changed by the discourse surrounding it, how much do you worry about its future in light of the politics surrounding it? >> we go to 2020, we go to the next election and this is where we understand that elections have consequences. i think that roe versus wade is on life support with this very conservative supreme court, with appointments of justice gorsuch and kavanaugh, again, a woman's right to choose is in great jeopardy. so when we think about those 53% of white women who voted for president trump, again, now when some young woman misses her period and she's trying to think, well, what should i do next, her vote in 2020 matters a great deal.

>> thank you all for being here. i really appreciate t joining me in d.c., bringing the treats kevin as well. special thank you to rebecca my graphics producer she is moving here -- there she is -- moving here to d.c., i think i was working out of her new desk. you will love it here. coming up at the top of the hour, joy reid and the question hanging over the 2020 race, can a moderate win the nomination? steve bullock makes the case when he joins us next. steve bullock makes the case when he joins us next. your brain changes as you get older. but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. you get more than yourfree shipping.ir, you get everything you need for your home at a great price, the way it works best for you, i'll take that. wait honey, no. when you want it. you get a delivery experience you can always count on.

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thanks to the crew in d.c. for making me feel at home, thanks for those helping me in virginia beach as well as we broadcasted from there. "a.m. joy" with joy reid starts right now. as -- i told you this, president trump will be held accountable in the congress, in the courts and in the court of public opinion. we will defend our democracy. >> good morning. welcome to "a.m. joy." house speaker nancy pelosi's constituents made their feelings on impeachment very well known on saturday. pelosi deflected the cries of impeach from the california democratic party's state convention crowd, urging her fellow democrats to let things play out in the court of public opinion. meanwhile, 2020 presidential