are better because she gave us the meeting place. that does it for me. thank you for watching. i'll see you back here next saturday at 5:00 p.m. eastern. coming up, "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> this sunday, that mass shooting in virginia beach. 12 victims killed at a public works building by a single gunman. >> we just heard people yelling and screaming to get down. >> we'll get the latest this morning. plus the growing push for impeachment. bob mueller says what attorney general bill barr would not. >> if we did not have confidence he didn't commit a crime, we would have said so. >> trump pushes back. >> i think mull ser a never-trumper. >> more than 50 democrats calling for impeachment inquiry,

but not speaker pelosi. >> we want to do what is right and what gets results. >> also tariff backlash, president trump's threat to impose new tariffs is condemned by democrats -- >> it makes no sense, i can't understand it. >> -- by business groups, and many republicans. are these tariffs aimed at curving illegal immigration or an effort to divert attention from impeachment. running with beto. his campaign started with great expectations. >> this is a campaign for america, for everyone in america. >> but now his candidacy seems stalled. what happened? my interview this morning with democratic presidential beto o'rourke. joining me for inside analysis are nbc white house correspondent, nbc news correspondent carol lee, and

jojon meacham. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc in washington, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. we're going to get to robert mueller's statement, but we're going to start with the tragedy in virginia beach. it's sad to say, but there are too many mass shootings in the united states to count. friday's shooting left 12 victims dead, 11 of them civil servants. operating behind the scenes of just simply making virginia beach work every day. this latest mass murder should lead to more debates about what we as a country will do about this violence. but what will those conversations produce. likely nothing. joining me is pete williams. pete, is it seems the biggest mystery has to do with motive. >> yes, they don't really have

one at this point. there are sort of conflicting stories about whether the gunman here who was an employee who killed his foal low employees, the majority of the victims were in the same department of the city government he worked in. he knew them. there had been some recounts he had been in recent arguments with them. but on the other hand people talked to him that day and said he seemed calm and the usual kind of guy. that's been a difficulty in the investigation. >> the weapons he used, everything purchased legally. but a little bit different than other mass shootings. a silencer. >> the weapons are two 45 caliber hand guns, one of the common weapons in america. he did have extended clips. that allows someone to shoot more rounds without reloading. those are legal in almost every state, certainly in virginia. you mentioned the silencer. that, i think, is going to be key here for a couple of reasons. the first victim was sitting in a car in the parking lot when the police department is right

nearby. if he had not had a silencer, that gun would have made a ferocious noise and you have to ask yourself would the police have come right then. then when he goes into the building, many victims didn't realize it was gunshots because it didn't sound like them. those who thought they were gunshots thought they were further away. that's because of a sound muffling quality of a silencer. they're legal to own if you get them edge administered. >> do you have to go through the same process to buy a silencer as a gun? >> no. you have to fill out a form, mail in to the bureau, review it, they get back approval i. takes months. we don't know whether he got the silencer through the registration process for it. there had been recent moves to remove these restrictions on silencers by sportsmans groups. every time there's a mass shootings, those efts seem to stall. i would think a mass shooting in which a silencer was a factor would be a bigger impediment.

>> you're right there. you've covered way too many of these. thajs for coming on and helping us out this morning. >> turni turning to the russia investigation. robert mueller never mentioned impeachment. the key moment was when the special counsel said if his team had felt confident that the president had not committed a crime, they would have said so. mueller's team did not and mueller went on national television to say they did not had two implications. it was a direct rebuke to president trump's no collusion no obstruction mantra which is continuing even this morning. two, mueller's first and perhaps last public statement on the report was seen as a broad hint to congress that it has an option, called impeachment. mueller's late in the game appearance questions should we have spoken sooner. what if mueller had said clearly

then when he seems to be saying coyly now, that he believes president trump committed a crime, so congress it's your move. mueller's implicit suggestion that congress can act if it chooses to has led an increasing number of democrats to conclude if impeachment is the process, the time to start it is right now. >> if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. >> special counsel robert mueller closing the door on his own investigation and making it clear on whether to take further action against the president rests with congress. >> the opinion says that the constitution requires a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting president of wrong doing. >> president trump responded renewing personal attacks on mueller, including discredited conflict of interest charges. >> i think he is a total conflicted person.

i think mueller is a true never-trumper. >> and now attorney general bill barr is distancing himself from the mueller report entirely. >> we didn't agree with the legal analysis, a lot of the legal analysis in the report. it did not reflect the views of the department. >> mueller's public statement is accelerating calls by democrats to begin impeachment proceedings now. >> bob mueller was referring impeachment to the united states congress. >> the message is over to you congress. >> i know the politics of this is problematic. but this is a very deeply principled moral moment in america. >> but speaker nancy pelosi is still making it clear she believes it's not the time. >> the report lays out 11 instances of possible obstruction of justice by the president of the united states. >> mr. trump pivoting away from the impeachment debate has returned to a subject that united states his base, immigration. first teasing. >> this is a big league

statement, but we are going to do something very dramatic on the border. >> -- then on twitter, announcing a 5% tariff on mexican goods unless migrants coming through mexico stop. with the rate increasing each month up to 25% by october. but offering no clear benchmarks for success. the president has issued empty threats on immigration before. >> we're closing the border. close it. we'll keep it closed for a long time. i'm not playing games. >> with an election year approaching, mr. trump is frustrated he's not been able to keep promises to his base to decrease immigration. many are calling it misguided saying this is not the right way forward. >> why did the president blindside his own party. >> he didn't blindside his party. >> mick mulvaney is joining me

now. >> it is always a pleasure to be here. >> let me start first with virginia beach. does the president believe there is a role for the federal government to preventing the mass shootings? >> let's start with this. every time -- i saw the lead in you did with mr. williams. we have too many of these shootings and every time the first time we talk about is politics. the mourning period hasn't even stopped yet, let alone the healing process. let's not get too deep in the politics. >> this isn't about politics. >> it is. let's talk about policy. the policy the enforcement and what we're doing. what's been lost in the last couple of years is the fact that the administration banned bump stocks. we signed a piece of legislation that fixed the background checks. we don't know if background checks played a role. >> we've got to learn about the silencer situation. that seems like a legitimate concern. >> keep in mind i'm more familiar with this situation where a guy walks into a church and shot my desk mate in the

senate. that was where the background check system led us all down. we fixed that last year with this administration on a bipartisan basis. there are things the government can do and things this government is doing, but we're never going to be able to protect everybody against everybody who is deranged and insane. i don't know what the shooter's motivation is. we're doing a lot better on enforcement. >> does the president believe it should be harder to get a gun? >> i think the president believes if you rememberly in the second amendment rights. he also believes that you cannot take these exceptions. and clearly people like this are exceptions. this is not the rule. 99.9% of people in this country who own a gun are law-abiding gun owners. >> most of our people don't commit murders. a lot of rules have to do with a small number of people that do things. >> you have laws on the books to prevent murder and yet people still do it. laws aren't going to fix everything.

>> let me move to the tariff decision. can you explain what you believe the mexican government can do that it is not doing. >> sure. number one, they can secure their southern border. what's lost in the discussion about this is most of the people coming across, i think on average about 4,500 people came across last night. that compares to 700 people a day just two years ago. most those people are guatemalans and hondurans. that border along southern mexico needs to be secured. it's easier to secure that border than our border because it's so much shorter. it's about a quarter of the length. they can do that. the mexican government can crackdown on domestic terrorist organizations, crime organizations. there's 100,000 people trying to move up to the u.s. border. they don't do that by themselves. they do that with the cooperation of the crime groups. the mexicans can do more there. they can make mexico a safe third country. say if you leave el salvador and say you're seeking asylum, the law says you're supposed to seek

asylum in the first safe country you arrive. mexico is safe. >> they've been taking. >> they've been taking more, but not enough. >> why use a stick to bash the mexican government here? why not offer them -- why not offer them help with their southern border? why not say the merit initiative which was an initiative between the u.s. and the mexican government to deal with the drug cartel situation? why not try more of those proposals first before just coming down with a hammer? >> you might ask the next question why right now and here's why. a couple days ago, give you one anecdote. a couple days ago a thousand people crossed in one group. let that sink in for a second. wasn't 40 people crosses in 25 different places. a group of 1,000 people stormed the border outside of tijuana, mexico into el paso, texas. that's never happened before. the reason we're doing things that people don't expect is we're facing things on the border we've never experienced

before. we're using tools because there's extraordinary circumstances that dictate those. >> again, it is just hammer, hammer, hammer. why do you expect the mexican government to cooperate if you want to punish them economically as you're negotiating a trade agreement. the mexicans are going to think it's related. >> you assume in the question we haven't been having the conversations with the mexicans and this came out of the blue. you know we've been in contact with the mexicans. one of the reasons you've seen them slightly increase the number of people they're taking back is because we have been working with them almost two years now. this is ongoing. >> so, the reward is slap them with tariffs. >> when you go from 700 people a day to 4,500 people a day, things are going to be different. >> okay. but -- >> that's a day by the way. >> let me ask the question "the wall street journal" asks. why are you putting the onus on the mexican government. >> the democrats won't help us.

i know that sounds outrageous, our own government -- >> what kind of effort. when is the last time you met with democrats on this issue? a month ago, right? >> met with them twice over the course of the last four weeks. what do they do? they're on vacation this week. they left town. our own government is not helping us fix this circumstances. it's been four weeks since "the new york times," no friend of this administration, wrote an editorial saying it's time for the democrats in congress to give hhs more money to deal with the crisis, still no help from the democrats. >> i want to put up something here from the "washington post" this weekend. he writes despite pressure tactics, unauthorized immigration is at a 12-year peek. the terror force has sent twitters through the wall street and pyongyang is growing impatient. the point is the president, every initial idea is sort of a stick, stick, stick, and it hasn't -- what rumts have come

from it? >> that's just not true. keep in mind we have continued a dialogue with the north koreans. i saw that quote. i just had a chance to e sioux it there for the first time. two years ago north koreans were launching long range missiles that we think could reach the mainland of the united states. that's not happening right now. things have gotten much better because of what the administration has done. so, you've now said a couple times why are we doing these things, why aren't we use a care and treatment carry rot and stick. we have been for years. >> this scene rushed out the door on thursday. was the president demanding this as a response to the mueller news cycle. >> no, absolutely not. nothing could be further from the truth. what i told you before about the group of thousand people crossing the border was the touch stone for this. i've been acting chief of staff for six months. i think we've discussed it two or three different times. this was not a new idea.

>> he's been wanting to do this and everybody around him has been trying to stop him. >> no, that's not fair. you know how we work. the president comes in and say ts here's a problem, give me ideas to fix it. he gets ideas from other places. were there other ideas floated? yes. other ideas considered? yes. were there people who spoke out on the down side? yes. but that's what you want the president to hear. you want the president to hear all sides of an argument. >> the president bluffs on shutting down the southern border about a month ago. the uncertainty the business community has with this doesn't know what to make with this. why is the president continuing to create uncertainty with the business community? >> the purpose is not to create uncertainty. >> it is. >> we've tried ordinary things. i reached out a month ago to southern democrats. we had two meetings with the head of dhs andhhs to go over the issues. six months ago nancy pelosi sat

in the white house and we laid out why this was an emergency on the situation. she said i don't believe your numbers and facts. under those circumstances the ordinary things don't work. >> i want to move to the president's response to robert mueller. he seems to indicate that the whole russia interference is a hoax. does the president accept the fact that russia interfered in the 2016 election in order to help him win? >> i think the bottom line. this got lost again this week. it didn't make difference. you ask people show me who you voted for -- >> that is not the question. you guys always try to change it to no votes were change. that's not the point. does he accept that russia changed the election to benefit him. >> the short question is yes, russia did attempt to interfere in our election. there's no question. let's not lose sight of the fact it was the previous

administration let that happen. >> is the president going to condemn foreign interference? does he want to criminalize foreign interference? >> been doing it two years. it's stuff that doesn't percolate up to the level of national attention. our department of justice, dhs has been working with states and local governments to make sure no foreign government has the ability to do in 2020 what they did in 2016. i just wish people would lay blame where it belongs on the previous administration for letting it happen. >> are you confident it was not a white house person that made the advance. >> i'll answer your question. an advanced team is hundreds of people. you know this. you've been overseas. the fact that some 23 or 24-year-old person on the advanced team went to the site and said there's the john

mccain. we know how the president feels about the previous senator. maybe that's not the best bac n backdr backdrop. that's not unreasonable. >> seriously? it's not unreasonable. we're worried it might get set off because a ship that was named for john mccain's grandfather first -- p >> we get that, but you're the third or fourth journalist that asked me is someone going to get fired. >> the president thought it was well meaning. >> and the president's feelings are well known. they're well known throughout the office and in the media. to think you're going to get fired over this is silly. if you're going the to a meeting and saying chuck is fighting with so and so, let's not sit them beside each other, is that a fire able offense. >> that's not -- you're asking me something that doesn't happen. this happened here. this is now gotten two minutes of time on sunday afternoon and it's justout ranls you. >> i like asking this at the end.

are you acting still? are you still -- are you not o and b director? >> my official -- >> two different questions. >> i am a senate confirmed office and i'm in acting capacities as chief of staff of the president of the united states. i like what i'm doing now. >> thanks for coming on. it's always a pleasure talking to you. >> thanks. >> more democrats calling for impeachment after robert mueller's appearance but none of them are nancy pelosi. the panel is next. as we go to break we're going to show you moments from some of the more commencement spreedings in the recent weeks. >> tear down walls of ignorance and narrow mindedness, for nothing has to stay as it is. >> people are willing to admit they made a mistake and are willing to right their wrongs, then that should be celebrated and welcomed. it makes us smarter. it makes us better. it makes us stronger.

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it is great, gidget. everything is grand. [ meow ] [ purring ] [ growl ] are you finished? [ cooing ] that was weird. oh sister it's going to get way weirder. welcome back, the panel is here. hugh hewitt, carol lee, jon meacham, author of the book "songs of america" written with tim mcgraw. you've always got something really cool you're up to. >> i've got my tam bah reen. >> this is what life is like in nashville. kristen wilker, let's talk about what you took away from the mulvaney interview specifically and we'll get to the mccain stuff later. specifically what you learned about impeachment and russia.

>> well, i thought it took him a long time to answer your question about whether or not the president actually thinks that russia meddled in the election and helped him get elected. you pressed him on what steps are taken by this administration to prevent it from happening again, and he was able to name some of the steps they've taken trying to shore up state and local agencies. but he couldn't point to what the president has done, what the president has said. and time and time again when president trump has been pressed on this -- i pressed him on the oval office -- did you tell putin not to meddle again, he said it didn't come up. >> not only the president is interfering in british pollic thes, so we know he really doesn't care about foreign interference. >> no. that was really remarkable he has weighed in. presidents have weighed in on issues overseas. we saw president obama do that -- >> at cameron's invitation.

it was an invitation of the leader of the country. >> president trump takes the this to a new level. the remarkable thing of what he's saying is it's on the eve of his state visit there. so, it's creating all this controversy where there was already a ton of controversy. >> hugh, you were struck by the mccain stuff. >> yeah, i was surprised they said to no it's a 22 or 23-year-old staffer and he won't be going up. what struck me, he said absolutely not. i believe that. mueller report was melting like paper mache in the rain before mueller walked out and i thought the statement like the report was irresponsible, completely inconclusive expect the report made conclusion as did mueller. there was no evidence to charge a crime -- >> that's phraseology. >> that's a prosecutor's job. bob mueller knows -- i've sat here two years doing this.

leave him alone, let him finish. bob mueller knows there was no crime. so, when bill barr comes out and says we don't have a crime here, it's over. >> you know, jon meacham, it's interesting watching mueller. this was in the "new york times" about mueller. he said nothing and the president said everything. he worked in secret allowing the president to fill the void with reckless accusations of a witch hunt. his damning conclusions, the doover lacked clarity. >> he took a mulligan and hit it in the lake, which i do a lot. so, i appreciate it. >> still three. >> it's true. trump would be a negative too. he would not count it. we've all talked about it all week. basically you had a total clash of cultures.

this was the easiest scene to write you can imagine because you have two sides. you have the accomplishment making a very coherent and responsible and reasoned statement, and then you cut to across pennsylvania avenue donald trump was tweeting and the tweeting is going to -- right now the tweeting is going to win out over the fact and the reason. that's the great issue of the time. >> i want to play this quote from an attendee at justin amash's town hall. listen to what she said about the mueller report. >> i was surprised to hear there was anything negative in the mueller report at all about president trump. i hadn't heard that before, and i mainly listen to conservative news. and i hadn't heard anything negative about that report. and president trump had been exonerated.

>> fascinating. you know, somebody at the white house to look at that quote and say huh, it's working. >> it's working. and i think to some extent the public had made up its mind from the moment that barr put out the summary. even before the day that the mueller report came out, chuck, look what happened on that day. barr spoke an hour and a half before the report was made public and before those exerts were released. so, i think it's hard to put the tooth paste back into the tube. the white house knows it. the president's attorneys know it. and they're making the case the attorney general said it's time to move on so we can. to your point, what would this have looked like if mueller had spoken first. >> it's not just the president. i want to emphasize that legal writers and scholars as esteemed in our circles as john is in stories. many have said the mueller report is exactly what a special counsel should not do which is their job, preachreach a conclu. and as a result -- judge

looting, probably the most influential judge was quoted says you cannot prosecute a president, but you can always declare he's committed a crime. and mueller did not either in the do overor the mulligan. it was a fee yas coy. >> here's what it's done is put democrats in this uncomfortable spot. they don't know what to do. they don't know how to stay on the same talking pounts. take a listen to this. >> impeachment is a political act and you cannot impeach a president if the people won't support it. >> we can't impeach him for political reasons and we can't not impeach him for political reasons. >> i don't want to play into russia's hands with a partisan impeachment. i am totally schizophrenic right now about all the different things that are in there. >> and congresswoman dingell, i think that is probably the most assessment of all congressional democrats. they're frustrated that the president defies congress and at

the same time they're aware of how divisive this is. >> and they're all tied up in knots and you're going to see speaker pelosi try to figure out where the next step goes because she's got -- she'll have a monday night leadership meeting. she'll cuddle with her caucus. this is the point at which she's under the most pressure she's been about impeachment. and you know, yet no one seems to know what her end game is. right now her message is she doesn't have an exit strategy. she has a counteroffer which is let these investigations finish and give it time. >> final word on this. >> one of the things on this -- i don't face voters. that's easy for me to say. what's happening now is if you continue to raise the bar on impeachment you're going to lower the bar on presidential lawlessness. that's the problem. >> probably a good way of putting it. we're going to pause the conversation here. when we come back democratic presidential candidate beto o'rourke joins me.

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welcome back. few politicians have made more out of a losing campaign than beto o'rourke. no democrat has one statewide office in texas in a quarter century, so the excitement that o'rourke's near miss made him a winner in the eyes of many and helped launch his 2020 bid. since starting with saturation television story, you can argue his candidacy has stalled a bit. beto o'rourke joins me from oklahoma city. goo to see you, sir. >> thank you for having me on. >> let me start with the basic

question that you have to -- the job with the democratic electorate. what distinguishes you from the other 22 people in this field that makes you the unique best nominee that the democrats can find? >> you look at the range of historic challenges that we have in health care, the economy, confronting climate before it's too late and in this very polarized country continuously divided by this president, an already badly damaged democracy undermined by him every day, my life work is about bringing this together and making lives work for everyone. texas, the largest grat roots, won more votes than any democrat in state's history, won independents. half a million republicans joined our movement and young voter was up 500%. though we didn't win, we helped flip the house of representatives, 17

african-american women elected to judicial positions in harris county, literally changing the face of criminal justice. showing democracy can work when we show up for everyone. we did it all without a single dime from a single political action committee. making democracy work. that's what it's going to take to defeat donald trump in 2020 and bring this country together again in 2021. >> so, your pitch is you can run a better campaign. i guess the other question is how is it that you're uniquely qualified to depolarize the country? >> well, i think my service in congress every single day for six years in the minority, able to work with republicans and democrats alike to expand mental health care access for veterans, protect public, work on the border to address security issues to facilitate trade and travel -- >> in fairness, your six years

in congress were among the most contentious until now between a republican congress and president obama. you served during a contentious period between those two. there aren't a lot of things you could say you got done in fairness, right? >> no. i'd argue the point with you, chuck. being able to connect veterans returning from service to this country after they put their lives on the line for us with the mental health care that they need to be able to get back on their feet and continue with their lives in their communities the one of the most important things that i could have been associated with, one of my proudest accomplishments. being able to do that in the minority with the republican-controlled congress shows that we willing stop at nothing, work with anyone any time anywhere to serve those who put us into the positions of public trust in the first place. i'm accountable to the people i serve. i listen to them. i show up. i think that's part of healing our democracy. don't take big money, corporate money, special interest money, lobbyist money, or pack unmany.

this is about people in this country making the democracy work. there's no one person or one political party, it's going to take a movement. it's going to take all of us not just to defeat trump but to bring the country together. >> i want to dive into immigration in a second. one last question on the state of your campaign. are you disappointed that what started out with a lot of buzz suddenly feels as if you're sputtering a little bit, and what is your explanation for it? >> i'm not disappointed. i mean i knew this was going to be tough. this is perhaps one of the hardest things that one can do. but there are so many extraordinary people, these volunteers who are showing up, knocking on doors, making phone calls for us. the folks i meet in town hall meetings all over this country who meet this moment with the urgency it demands whether it is gun violence, whether it's making sure reproductive rights are protected, or guaranteeing we confront the greatest

challenge we have faced in climate and make the generations that follow us proud because we've freed ourselves on a dependence on fossil fuels, embraced renewable energy, and led not just the country but the world to make sure we don't warm the planet another 2 degrees celsius. these are accomplishments we have. we won't be able to accomplish this in a couple of months. it's a long campaign and i'm looking forward to meeting my fellow americans who want to be part of this. >> you're one of the two candidates who rolled out full fledge immigration plan. you are both texans which i think says a lot. you promised to take executive action to undo things like the travel ban, deal with family separations. i am curious how does this square -- when president obama adadded dapa, extended daca protections to parents. you said i strongly dislike adding to the precedence of

presidents bypassing congress to achieve something they think is important. i know once people get elected to the presidency, they love the executive power they have. are you worried that you're going to focus on executive power and leave the immigration system vulnerable to another president? >> the critical thing is to make sure that we overturn this president's executive action. so, muslim ban -- when has a country ever banned all people of one religion as though they're somehow defective or violent? that cannot be us. or putting kids in cages or deporting moms back to countries from which they fled or keeping them separated with no hope or prospect of being reunited. to your point, chuck, absolutely we're going to have to work with congress to rewrite this country's immigration laws in our own image. the 9 million legal permanent residents, let's make sure they

become u.s. citizens as soon as possible. mail them already filled out citizenship application forms. 11 million undocumented, start with the dreamers, free them from fear of deportation by making them citizens in their true home country. follow our asylum laws and invest in solutions in honduras, guatemala, el salvador, reduce violence there so no family has to make the 2,000 mile journey to the border. >> do you have empathy to the administration saying they're being overwhelmed here, they need temporary help from congress to deal with this whether it's maybe changing the asylum law. are you at all sympathetic to that? >> my empathy and my sympathy is with the families who have had to flee the deadliest countries on the face of the planet who are met with the greatest cruelty and inhumanity in this country's history. we have the capacity to be able to take care of those

families -- >> can the city of el paso keep handling more and more migrants coming over the border? >> this country, this united states of america, absolutely can do this. we have 400,000 apprehensions last year, chuck. in the second year of the george w. bush administration there were 1.6 million apprehensions on the u.s./mexico border. if we treat people with the humanity that they deserve, if we release them from detention into a family case management program to ensure they follow our laws at a fraction of the cost to improve our security and ensure the asylum laws on the books. if we follow that up by addressing the root problems in the northern triangle of central america, fewer families are going to have to make that journey in the first place. we cannot meet them with walls or cages. that will do nothing to alleviate the root problem. we must go to the source and show true leadership.

>> beto o'rourke, unfortunately i have to leave it there. i hope you come back and we can dive in on more you shhs as this campaign goes along. thanks for coming on this morning. i appreciate it. when we come back a growing number wanting to see president trump get a primary challenge. >> learn to make friends with your troubles. make them your teachers instead of your tormenters. or if you can do this, imagine they're your saviors. >> when i was young, i felt like a weirdo. i felt like i didn't belong. and i look around this room and i feel like i found all the rest of the weirdos. we're all here. you know what i mean? l, so i called him. he didn't call me back! if your ex-ex- ex-boyfriend isn't a lawyer, call legalzoom and we'll connect you with an attorney. legalzoom. where life meets legal.

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welcome back, data download time. ever since president trump's campaign took off in june 2015, there's been a debate. is he a symptom of the changing republican party or the cause. either way it is trump's party now. 90% of republicans approve of the job president trump is doing compared with 46% of voters overall. that may mask an underlying discontent. day from from the pew research in may said more than 43% of republicans would like to see mr. trump face a challenger in 2020.

that number is up from the 2018 midterms. after the 2010 midterms, president obama faced similar head winds with 38% of democrats wanting him to be challenged. and so did bill clinton in '94 when 66% felt that way. both went on to win another term. the numbers aren't noteworthy because president trump is in danger okay of a challenge. they're more important because of who the voters are. it's 54% of voters under 50 who want this, 52% of urbanites, and bachelor's degrees. these are the types of voters the party has been hemorrhaging and who cost republicans control of the house in 2018. given the small amount of voters who carried president trump to victory last time he has almost no margin for error in 2020, so if these voters are so

unenthusiastic, they could end up not voting democrat but staying home on election day. and an enthusiasm gap that could be a huge advantage for the democrats. when we come back end guam and this question, are democratic candidates beginning to find their antibiden voice? that insurance bill. [ ding ] -oh, i have progressive, so i just bundled everything with my home insurance. saved me a ton of money. -love you, gary! -you don't have to buzz in. it's not a question, gary. on march 1, 1810 -- [ ding ] -frédéric chopin. -collapsing in 226 -- [ ding ] -the colossus of rhodes. -[ sighs ] louise dustmann -- [ ding ] -brahms' "lullaby," or "wiegenlied." -when will it end? [ ding ] -not today, ron. play it cool and escape heartburn fast with new tums chewy bites cooling sensation. ♪ tum tum tum tums

back now with end game. a few weeks ago i warned you of what i call biden pundit whiplash. first he's done.

then he's up. everybody figured he can't be beat. now apparently everybody has figured out how to beat him this weekend. not just team trump, but also the rest of the democratic field. listen to elizabeth warren and pete buttigieg here with the aggressive first hits of sorts on joe biden. take a listen. >> some say if we all just calm down, the republicans will come to their senses. but our country is in a time of crisis. the time for small ideas is over. >> in these times, democrats can no more keep a promise to take us back to the 2000s or the 1990s, than conservatives keep a promise to take us back to the 1950s. we can only look forward. >> john, you can see the outlines of how they are going to try to go at biden there, small ball with warren, generational with pete buttigieg.

effective? >> it makes sense. if i were running against joe biden, i would say the same thing. one of the things that's so fascinating about what's going forward is i have been surprised that biden has come out of the gate so strongly and you wonder if the people who don't follow the stump speech, who are not on twitter basically believe biden is our guy. he's close enough to obama. we remember that fondly. and these other folks are just not what we need in a knife fight with trump. i think the biden campaign is struggling to figure out how to respond to these attacks and whether to respond to these attacks. >> i saw a response this weekend. i thought it was interesting. he goes, well, you guys are all on the coasts. we're in the heartland. they were in ohio this weekend. >> yeah. and what he wants to be doing is to be singularly focussed on president trump. to kind of look beyond that. but i think especially as we head into the first debate, he might have to sharpen some of his responses. >> here's what happens

interesting carol, let me read you what dan balz wrote this weekend. there is a counter view -- this is about team trump's view about running against biden. a biden nomination would create a general election matchup to catch himself as the real change candidate. biden would be cast as the embodiment of what voters revolted against in 2016. part of a political class of elites and career politicians who many trump supporters contend do not care for them or their problems. >> it's a real issue for the biden campaign because what -- there is two things happening for him. there is the democrats who are making this argument that you don't need just electability. you can't just go with someone you think will get elected. then you have this republican, which is what trump is relying on, which is basically like a hillary clinton argument, that she could be, at the same time, the future and the past as dan balz writes. and biden is arguing the same thing. you know, the trump folks have plans to seize on various things

he's said so far, particularly on china. this gives them another sort of opening to go after him. >> so do you think this is real, they think we have a way to run against biden? or they're still more nervous about running against biden than anyone else? >> i think they will wait and see what happens in these debates and pick their opponent based on who would match up best against a president. right now i think they're most worried about pete buttigieg. >> why is that. >> because they're most different -- this is the david axelrod theory, you also elect the person most different than the person in the white house. what's happened to beto o'rourke, is that pete buttigieg has pancaked him on being the most interesting and the smartest guy and a military veteran. his best line at the california party was we cannot play it safe. we have to be as risky as possible. peeb pete buttigieg is the riskyiest candidate, and he scares trump. >> insofar as history is a guide here, think about democrats who have won the presidency, right? john kennedy, lyndon johnson, jimmy carter, barack obama, bill clinton. you have folks who are younger.

folks who are promising a change, folks who talk about the future, not the past. there is a risk that joe biden becomes the bob dole of this period. a great and noble man, but you can't build bridges to the past. that's that argument. but here you go. donald trump is president of the united states. >> which has never happened in history. >> right. >> so all of these facts that would ordinarily guide this conversation have been blown away. >> and that's been my contention. >> right. >> is that the question, this is the only chance that biden has right now. >> right. and i think that pete buttigieg is doing something that is very trumpian, which is he's really making use of the media. i mean, he's out there. he's out front. that's something that beto o'rourke is just starting to do. and i think that's why he struggled initially. >> that's an interesting point. the question is can he get back and get close to pete buttigieg in that generational change. thank you, guys. what a great set of conversations we had. that's all we have for today. thank you for watching. really appreciate it. remember, if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

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welcome to "kasie dc." i'm kasie hunt we're live every sunday from washington from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern. tonight separation sunday. elbows get sharper as democrats in the 2020 field try to put daylight between themselves and the rest of the pack. plus pressure mounts on speaker nancy pelosi to impeach the president. i'll talk with homeland security chair bennie thompson has more than 50 democrats call for proceedings. a new wave of abortion laws