i'm yasmin vossoughian alongside geoff bennett. "morning joe" starts right now. >> queen elizabeth was apparently miked during the visit and we were able to get ahold of queen's audio during her time today with the trumps. give a listen. >> now, donald, please don't put your grubby hands on anything in this room. this is not a burger king buffet at mar-a-lago. this is a book. yes. if you read words, you see. you look confused. you've never read one, have you? >> conan o'brien with his show's take on the president's visit to great britain. welcome to "morning joe," i'm willie geist. joe and mika continue their vacation but they will be hosting live from normandy this thursday. with us this morning we have host of kcdc on msnbc kasie

hunt, president of the council on foreign relations richard haass, political writer for "the new york times" and nbc political analyst nick confisori, jon meacham, he is an nbc and msnbc contributor, and the co-author of the fourth coming books "songs of america" with tim mcgraw. also with us associate editor of the "washington post" eugene robinson and washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay with us. president trump is in london. while yesterday was mostly pomp and circumstance with the royal family, today is more business and politics. the president currently participating in a business round table event at st. james palace along with the duke of

york and an array of united states and business leaders from the uk. the event is co-hosted by prime minister theresa may who, as you know, is resigning as the head of her party on friday over the state of brexit which trump criticized may for and the british press days ago. trump and may will head to 10 downing street for a bilateral meeting followed by a joint news conference. last night president trump took part in the first state banquet hosted for an american president in buckingham palace since 2011 where queen liz wet talked about the importance of the united states and the uk working together. >> as we face the new challenges of the 21st century the anniversary of d-day reminds us of all that our countries have achieved together. after the shared sacrifices of the second world war britain and the united states worked with other allies to build an assembly of international

institutions to ensure that the horrors of conflict would never be repeated. while the world has changed, we are forever mindful of the original purpose of these structures. nations working together to safeguard a hard won peace. >> keeping with the queen's remarks prime minister theresa may also underscoring the importance of not only the special relationship between the u.s. and the uk, but of international institutions as well. she gifted the president a framed type script draft of the atlantic charter. that's the declaration signed by prime minister winston churchill and president roosevelt in 1941 which set out common goals for the world and helped to lay the groundwork for the united nations and world trade organization. first lady melania trump was given a tea set. earlier in the day queen elizabeth gifted trump a first edition of winston churchill's "the second world war."

the account of the war effort that united britain and the united states. katty kay, you are there in london today where the president will hold a joint news conference with the prime minister. what's been the feeling on the ground inside london and inside the uk day one and a half now of the president's visit? >> i guess a sigh of relief that it went off okay yesterday in terms of pageantry. the president, of course, arriving and causing a political stir with a scathing attack on the mayor of london, the city that he was about to touchdown in, but in terms of the royal side of things, all of those weeks of preparation paid off. donald trump is seen to have performed the part just fine. there were no massive royal protocols breached. so you had this kind of odd mixture of the president doing the royal part of it well as he was meant to and yet politically and diplomatically causing headlines here and causing

controversy here by being so rude about sadiq kahn the mayor of london just before he landed. officials on both sides of the atlantic keen to say this is not about donald trump the president, this is about the american/british relationship, the alliance of the last 75 years since the 75th anniversary of d-day and how important that relationship has been, but the protests today are against donald trump. he has something like two-thirds of the british public hong he has been a bad if not terrible american president and there's not much love lost for the president here. we are going to see those demonstrations the protesters already getting ready very close to where i'm speaking to you from today. >> they're gathering in the streets now, we will have a report from there in just a moment. jon meachum as i read about the atlantic charter and churchill i heard the meacham meter go off. what are you thoughts as you watch the pageantry of this visit and point back to that time in our history?

>> harold mcmillen one of churchill's successors as prime minister once remarked we are the greeks in the new roman empire. the british people saw themselves, particularly the british ruling class, saw themselves as the wise mentors to this brash strong young republic as it came into global leadership. that's the image that popped into my mind when i was watching the queen yesterday. this voice of nine decades. her first prime minister was winston churchill. she's had more prime ministers for breakfast. it's just incredible when you think about her reign. she was speaking, i think, with some of the wisdom of the ages, which is these institutions matter, this relationship matters. it ebbs and flows, unquestionably. it ebbed and flowed in realtime. let's not be sentimental. one of the fascinating things about giving the atlantic charter is the atlantic charter

is kind of a noble thing in memory. it was essentially a press release that was put out after roosevelt and churchill met secretly at sea and it was churchill's courtship of roosevelt. world war ii began for the british on september 3rd, 1939 when hitler invades poland. we didn't declare war on nazi germany until nazi germany declared war on us. pearl hasher happened and it took five days before we got into the war against germany. after the atlantic charter was put out which was the statement of principles roosevelt gave a press conference in which he basically said let's not pay too much attention to that. we're still not fighting the war. history is always ambivalent, always contingent and one of the things that to me what's so fascinating here is you do have the -- an isolationist president standing at the great moment at

a commemoration of the great moment of the terrible and tragic costs of isolation. that's going to be an image for the rest of the week. >> richard haass, as we sat here yesterday and watched that pageantry, marine one landing at the buckingham palace, you used the word hollow, it's hollow given the state of the relationship of the two countries and given the state of the uk right now. today as the president sits as we speak with prime minister theresa may, she's 72 hours away from leaving as the head of her party so these negotiations as the president bleeds with her half-jokingly, stick around for a while, we will make a deal, with those talks hollow as well given who the president is talking to right now? >> short answer is pretty much. the president keeps talking about this wonderful economic bilateral relationship to come, but for all we know britain is going to maintain some relationship with the eu for not just months but probably years to come and the idea that

they're going to be free to drop everything european and plug us in to substitute in the united states for all that they have had with europe is just not the way it works. ultimately britain has to choose, but it's not going to have free rein to enter into all sorts of bilateral relationships with us. also even if there were a british prime minister that wanted a trade relationship with the united states, negotiating it would be brutally tough on both sides, getting it approved by the american congress would be brutally tough given all the structural issues. so this easy talk, oh, put the eu behind you, we are your future, they are the past, we are your future, that doesn't work not only with theresa may who is literally living by the hour now, but with her successor. one other thing, the brits don't do anything casually. the atlantic charter, the copy of the churchill book, the queen's talk about the importance of multilateral

institutions. so much thought went into that. that was message after message after message, essentially almost schooling an american president who they see essentially -- who does not have -- come into the job with great appreciation of history, is not widely read. that was very, very considered. that was their chance to make the case for the united states not abandoning the role it's played now for 75 years. >> londoners are sending a message to the president as well. president trump is very unpopular in the uk. the activist group led by donkeys projected president obama and president trump's stark contrast in uk approval ratings under the tower of london last night. also turned a building into a giant "u.s.s. john s. mccain" hat. the president who is mainly shielded from the protest inside buckingham palace tweeted he hadn't seen any protests yet. that may be because trump opted

to take a helicopter for the three mile trip to buckingham palace, unlike president obama in 2011 who used a motorcade and not marine one for that same voyage. today a larger and more vocal protest is expected, including one led by labor party leader jeremy corbin. the infamous baby trump blimp already making itself between outside parliament. let's bring in richard engel. what are you seeing in the streets? >> reporter: good morning. so we are here in trafalgar square and already there are a few thousand people gathered here, these are people protesting against president trump's visit and it is a fairly lighthearted atmosphere, people have real concerns about the president's position on the environment, about his position on palestinian rights, but there is something of a carnival atmosphere, the baby trump balloon is already flying and behind me you can see -- i think you can see a 16 foot statue, it

is a robotic statue of president trump on a golden commode and it speaks and it says some of president trump's more famous catch phrases like, you're fake news, no collusion, it's a witch-hunt. this protest is expected to gather throughout the day and people are going to march toward 10 downing street when president trump has the meeting with the lame duck prime minister theresa may. >> we will be checking in with you throughout the morning. it looks like the brits are going with humor this time around as they so often do. >> indeed, as they so often do. there is actually a gold commode in president trump's former office in trump tower. >> that's a true story. >> gene robinson, your latest piece for the "washington post" is entitled "trump poses a test for the brits stiff upper lip." you wrote donald bone spurs trump, a special relationship

forged in heroic military sacrifice, donald, quote, i didn't know that she was nasty. trump is imposing his boarish prince on the royal family including prince harry. today they have my hopes and prayers when the president leaves britain will still be mired in its worst political crisis in decades. at least most british voters chose brexit though the outcome of a second referendum would likely be different. most american voters did not choose trump though the electoral college system dually put him into office. then again, we will get rid of trump in next year one hopes but in a worst-case scenario in 2024. brexit if britain is foolish enough to go through with it will have effects that linger and fester indefinitely. trump's trip abroad makes me feel better about our own prospects if only the brits could somehow just keep him.

gene, that is quite a statement this morning. you mentioned prince harry who did not attend that state dinner last night, but richard haass was on the program yesterday as well talking about the sort of basic breakdown in the system and your point is very well taken that if the brits go through with brexit they can't go back. >> right. you know, we jumped off a cliff in 2016, but there's a parachute called the next election. they don't have a parachute. i mean, you know, once they take the step of leaving the european union as richard said, this idea that all of a sudden some sort of relationship with the united states is going to replace the relationship with europe in any real sense is pie in the sky. it's just not going to happen. >> i just want to fill in our viewers.

we're watching theresa may greet the president of the united states and melania trump outside of do you think street. this is all unfolding live. sorry, gene continue. >> no, that's fine. theresa may, a major figure in this in that she sort of offered this state visit which was an unpopular idea at the time and she actually is staying in office. she has announced her resignation. she leaves as party leader at the end of the week. she timed her departure so that she would be here for this visit since it was her idea, so she's going to see it through. there was a wonderful moment yesterday when the president went to tea with prince charles and his wife camilla parker bowls, the duchess, i guess, of something now. >> cornwall, i think. >> cornwall or whatever. >> are you the duke of something? >> and there was a moment when

they sort of were walking away from the press and camilla turns and she gives a big wink to the assembled british press as if -- as if saying, you know, we know this is ridiculous, but we're going to go on. it's a wonderful moment that shows just how sort of conscious everything that the brits are doing right now is. as richard said, this is all planned out. >> katty kay, the door is closed now at 10 downing street. the president and the short time prime minister of the uk will go inside for an extended bilateral meeting. we expect to see them again in about two and a half hours for a joint news conference which should have some interesting moments in there as well. where is -- as the president visits now for his first state visit -- where is the uk, let's say, a week from now? theresa may in 72 hours as i said give or take will step down as the head of her party, as gene said she will be around for a little while as a lame duck

prime minister until a new one can be installed perhaps sometime next month. where is the uk right now, where is it sitting as the president visits? >> i'm still choking on gene not know who the duchess of cambridge is, we have cornwall, cambridge and sussex, it's very easy. >> i called meghan markle the duchess of suffix yesterday, it is sussex. >> the tower of london has space, willie for you. >> so many titles. >> just get it right. look, i think one of the fascinating moments, points about this visit, is that we have so much tumult in the world both on the u.s. side of the atlantic and on the british side of the atlantic, politics is right up in the air as you suggest. theresa may is leaving. we don't know whether we are going to be leaving the european union, we don't know what our future relationship is going to be like with the united states and yet we are commemorating a

time of stability. it's as if there are two worlds, there is the world we've had for the last 75 years since d-day in which the united states and united kingdom were in lockstep and came together as the two adults in the room to promote the idea of unified western democracy with organizations that supported that concept. now we have a world going forward which is almost immobilized by donald trump of change and we don't know quite what it brings and that that western liberal world order is up for grabs and about to become much less stable. you don't have the united states and the united kingdom in lockstep on a range of issues, climate change, middle east or china, they are out of synch. in a sense this visit is fascinating because you have the queen symbolizing the old order, where we could rely on certainties in the relationship

and now we have a world with donald trump where nothing is certain and we don't know what our future relationship is going to be with the situates and we don't know what the united states role in the world is going or even if that order order is going to exist for much longer. we are in this moment of extreme uncertainty. you have the queen who is this symbol of stability and decades of rule and people almost revere her all the more for that in this world of instant tweets and instant foreign policy, and then you have donald trump who is the antithesis of that. we don't know where the uk is going and we don't know where the u.s./uk relationship is going. >> as i watched all the pomp and circumstance of this, as i watched the queen's speech it felt like an elogy so an old order. it's amazing to think that the two greatest threats to the order she was describing are her own government and trump's government. the two actors who are essentially stepping on rakes over and over again in their own

controls to disrupt these alliances, to pull things apart are right there. she's trying to speak to them. a question for jon meachum, i wonder what you think to ask -- or phrase the question that katty was talking about, is there a future in which we return to something approximating the old order? is it actually in elogy or is this the funeral for the transatlantic alliance, the global system of alliances that has ensured prosperity and relative peace for so long? >> yeah, richard is probably better to answer this, but my quick view is in many ways american politics both foreign and domestic until 2016 could be seen as a kind of figurative conversation between fdr and reagan. there were two common assumptions, one was we would determine the role of the state in the economy and the second

was to what extent do we project power against commonly agreed upon rivals and foes. you could disagree virulently but it was on that field. president obama governed in that world and so it was a coherent conversation. one of the things that happened in 2016 is we now have a president who is not a coherent subsequent chapter to that conversation. my own view is that alliances and the nature of power ebbs and flows. we don't do the past a great service by sentiment liesing it. again, 1941 was a long year for the british people. as churchill is alleged to have said you can always count on the americans to do the right thing once they've exhausted every other possibility. that was in the 1940s. i believe in restoration. i believe in renewal, but it's a

projection based on the past and so i think it's a live question. the last point i will make is can you imagine if someone with trump's temperament had been in power in 1945, '46, '47 when we built nato, the marshall plan, the creation -- of president the creation of these institutions. if america first so powerful from the mid to late 1930s through pearl harbor, if that had been a viable and ambient force if isolation had been a huge force in those years, we wouldn't have projected that power and we wouldn't have had a bulwark against the soviet union. this ain't bean ball. >> john, you're right, it's not. there is a lot at stake. one way to frame the question is you look at the last 75 years, we look at the run from world war ii to where we are now, an american led so-called liberal

world order, all these institutions, alliances, it's actually worked remarkably well. taking a step back, the question is, you know, you think about it, what came before, it was two world wars. we know what came before, which was the worst 50 years of human history. we had 75 years of relative peace, prosperity, democracy made tremendous strides around the world and here we are and donald trump is an outlier. so the real question is what comes after -- to frame it, are the last 75 years the normal now? donald trump is the exception. and then we kind of return, not exactly wro we were, but to something pretty familiar. or is donald trump the beginning of a new era so the last 75 years look like the exemption? we know what came before, two world wars, and now we're potentially entering an era of history which has all sorts of jockeying between great powers, the rise of china, these global forces we can't contend with, failed states in the middle east, populism, nationalism and

that is the historical question. >> there are real echos of what happened before world war i, right, the great power jockeying, the rise of nationalism, populism, isolation nlism. >> 100%. you had in the world after napoleon at the risk of sounding like meacham here. >> god forbid. >> welcome aboard. >> you had the rise of napoleon -- >> the water is fine, richard. >> essentially the world stabilized in the second century -- second decade of the 19th century. then for roughly 50, 75, 100 years you had what was called a concert of europe, the countries of europe worked things out. it broke down in the years running up to world war i and that's, again, the question we have now. we have had 75 years of a managed international environment. are we beginning to see it break down? if so, history suggests it won't be pretty or, again, is this simply a temporary speed bump and then people get scared by

the glimpse of what they see and they kind of return to what was sort of the norm for 75 years. that is the big question about where we are. >> we're going to continue this conversation in just a moment, let richard and jon trade musty historical references. chicago has endured its most violent weekend of the year in which the city's police chief called a despicable level of violence following 52 shootings which included eight deaths along with two stabbings that also resulted in fatalities. most of the shootings taking place over the period between friday night through sunday were gang-related. the city has responded by increasing the number of uniformed officers on the street. after months of political infighting congress gave final approval yesterday to the $19 billion disaster aid package to help with ongoing recovery efforts from a series of natural disasters. in a 354-58 house vote the bill was approved by every democrat in attendance and by more than 130 republicans including the

party's top leaders. this is the first time congress has approved a broad disaster relief package since february of 2018. trump administration notched a win in federal district court yesterday when a trump appointed judge in washington, d.c. ruled that the house of representatives lacks the legal standing to sue the president for using emergency powers to fund a border wall. the judge suggested they use political means instead. the ruling breaks from a 2015 decision by another judge on the d.c. district court appointed by george w. bush who allowed the house to sue president obama over spending for the affordable care act. however, there is still an injunction in place against redirecting the border wall funds after a ruling in a lawsuit from private groups who do not face that standing issue. and in last night's episode of "jeopardy" powerhouse james holzhauer's 32-game winning streak came to an end just as he was on the brink of beating the 15-year-old earnings record of

legendary champion ken jennings. he lost to university of chicago librarian emma boetcher who beat him by about $22,000 in the final round of jeopardy with a question about shakespearian literature. combined with his prize for coming in second place on yesterday's episode holzhauer walked away with a total of $2,464,216. coming up on "morning joe," we have brand-new polling on the 2020 presidential race and who better to break it down than steve kornacki. he joins the table straight ahead. you're watching "morning joe." i" ♪ (music plays throughout) ♪ ♪ ♪

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and twenty-six vitamins and minerals. you never know what life is going to throw at you. [ whimpering ] and from this point on. nothing is going to be the same. [ "all these things that i've done" by the killers ] no, no, no. this way buddy. no! liam's heads for comforts is in the 80th percetile. oh that's cool. it's a lot of head. it's like you're the dad and i'm the mom and we're in a relationship and this is our baby. [ laughing ] well... it's exactly like that! exactly! i began by telling the president that there was a cancer growing on the presidency and if the cancer was not removed, the president himself would be killed by it.

i also told him that it was important that this cancer be removed immediately because it was growing more deadly every day. the meeting with the president that afternoon was a tremendous disappointment to me because it was quite clear that the cover up as far as the white house was concerned was going to continue. >> 46 years ago this month former nixon white house counsel john diea dean alleged that then white house obstructed dust is during the breaken and about his discovery that president nixon was involved in the cover up. next week the house judiciary committee plans to call dean to testify as part of a panel on the mueller report which chronicled among other things the pressure that president trump put on his own white house counsel don mcgahn. "politico" reports it's part of

a strategy to shift focus from procedural battles to the content of mueller's findings. >> kasie hunt, what is the point of having john dean there if not just for symbolism. >> i think that's entirely the point of it. it's a balance because on the one hand they are looking for facts, this he want to present facts about this president, on the other hand they're trying to fight a bait battle of public opinion against a reality show president. you have to weigh those two factors. there have been a couple blind quotes about what we're about to see unfold in june that have caught my eye. they are anonymous sources, but the gist of it is this is a real test for jerry nadler who is the chairman of the judiciary committee and the question is whether or not he can, in fact, orchestrate an effective show really. i mean, yes, there has to be real actual meat on the bone, right, but he has to communicate that effectively. so the house is now set hearings on the mueller report, we're

going to start to see contempt votes on the floor of the house which is what nadler needs to actually move forward with challenging the president in court. so i think there's going to be a lot of scrutiny, you know, and one criticism of nancy pelosi has been that her chairmen aren't necessarily made for television. if you are fighting about public opinion you have to present it to the american people in a way that's compelling. >> unless john dean has new information or can testify about something that happened in the mueller investigation doesn't this add to president trump's argument that this is a clown show? >> it could. >> let read from joe's op-ed from the "washington post" titled disregard trump's ground noise, focus on the sipping nl. during my freshman year on the hill i tried to respond to every charge. after one particularly stem winding speech that i delivered at the downtown rotary club in pensacola, florida, three star admiral jack getter man took me

aside and gently offered advice that i carry with me a quarter century later. he said, joe, you have to learn to separate the ground noise from the signal. here is the secret, son, it's almost always ground noise. it is easy to be blinkered by the ground noise generated from the president's twitter feed or ministers of propaganda or quivering grizz lgs on capitol hill. it is difficult to brush aside the stream of lies and half truths that insult our intelligence but the good admiral would tell you you have no other choice unless you want to fly your fighter jet into the side of a mountain. ignore the ground noise and search for the signal. instead of signal is the mueller report. read it. nick, joe makes a good point that we made on this show many times which is to just stay to the facts and the details and it goes to the john dean story. if you focus in on what's inside that report and call witnesses and have them testify about it, it's probably more effective than calling john dean to capitol hill. >> this is a president who

specializes in ground noise. it's what he does every day. he creates more and more ground noise. i think the reason -- what was so striking about the mueller press conference was the realization that simply restating the central findings of his report created a huge news cycle and it showed that people had not read the report and many people, strangely enough for us around this table, are not familiar with the basic findings. there is a noise machine out there and i think you're right that one key task for the democrats is to get the whole country to look closely at the allegations and decide if they agree with them to move forward with some kind of impeachment proceeding. if they can get public opinion on their side in that question there is no future for that process for them. >> i was really struck by -- and i think we've played it on this show, there was a woman who attended justin amash's town hall and told her colleague that she had no idea there was anything negative towards the

president in the mueller report and it was because she was watching conservative media. our information is so siloed. that's what's so challenging to break through. there is an open question about whether we hear from mueller himself, that question was not been finally answered quite yet. i wonder if they're saving a dramatic reading of the report for that day because to a certain extent there might even be value in that because it could potentially break through noise of the media environment. >> and the president is counting on his noise to be louder than the signal of that report. still ahead on "morning joe," south bend mayor and 2020 candidate pete buttigieg distances himself from democrats who pushed former senator al franken to resign. now another 2020 white house hopeful is responding. plus steve kornacki as promise sd here to break down the latest 2020 molg. spoej is back in a moment. 0 molg spoej is back in a moment. d sd the latest 2020 molg. spoej is back in a moment. reak the latest 2020 molg spoej is back in a moment. experience the style, craftsmanship and technology

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this is not the first time you've been on "hard ball" in a live event. in fact, many years ago you asked a question of a presidential candidate who visited your college, harvard. here you were back in 2003 asking dick gebhardt about young

voters. >> congressman, why are you the only presidential candidate not attending tomorrow's youth oriented rock the vote forum and do you think young people's votes matter in your campaign? into they matter a lot. that's why i'm here tonight. i want to say to all of you here get involved in public life. give back to your country don't just take from it. get involved in this campaign. if it's not for me get behind somebody and get out there and work and make this country is a better place. >> first of all, i'm a lot more sympathetic to scheduling -- i'm hard on him. i feel bad about that now. >> we have one more question from not in the audience, it's a remote question and, sir, do you have a question for the mayor? >> mayor pete, you really took me seriously, didn't you? >> that is well done by the team at "hard ball." pete buttigieg got a surprise

from dick gebhardt during "hardball's" live town hall last night. joining us now national political correspondent for nbc news and msnbc and author of the red and the blue, steve kornacki. steve, good morning. let's get into new polls just out this morning. shows a race slightly tighter. former vice president joe biden dropping 7 points from the announcement bump he got in april's cnn poll down to 32%. he holds a 14 point lead over senator bernie sanders at 18%. with senators kamala harris and elizabeth warren at 8 and 7 perspective respectively. pete buttigieg, beto o'rourke tied for fifth place at 5% with cory booker at 3, julian castro, amy klobuchar at 2, all other candidates at less than 1%. what do you see right there? >> we've got that. also a new morning poll out this morning showing roughly the same thing, they have warn in that one hitting 10%, but roughly

this is where the race has sort of frozen a little bit heading into the debate. biden is about two to one ahead of sanders in second place and then you have a jumble, warren, harris, maybe buttigieg, who is going to distinguish themselves in third place. i think a couple things that jump out at me when you start to look at these polls, number one, we've talked about this before, the age gap in this thing. it is jarring. take the morning consult poll, the youngest group of voters on the democratic side, voters under 30%. in this poll under 30 years old sanders is leading biden by 13 points. now, go to the other end of the spectrum, go to voters over 65 and the biden lead over sanders is 43 points. so you have nearly a 60-point swing from the youngest to the oldest on the democratic side. we've been seeing that. another thing you see in these polls here, too, is i think there is a theory that warren to the extent she's gotten a little traction lately it's been coming at bernie sanders expense. i think there is a little bit to

that but i think the other thing you're seeing there is i think she has arrested the momentum that pete buttigieg had, say, a month or six weeks ago. you see him slipping back, buttigieg to 5% in that cnn poll, 7% in morning consult. if you look at the demographic profile of their voters right now, the warren voters, the buttigieg voters, they both skew white, higher income, college graduate. both of them they have twice the support among voters with a post grad degree than non-college voters right now. so that continues to be a trend you're seeing there. i think warren to the extent she's gotten extra traction in the last month it maybe has come from some of those voters that had been gravitating towards buttigieg. the big story in all of this is we have the debate coming up in a couple months -- in a couple months, in a couple weeks, and i think there is a question how that's going to jumble what now for the moment i think has settled down a little bit. >> we are three weeks away from those debates. with all the usual caveats about how early it is, joe biden with

an every sieve rollout has slipped a little bit since he announce. . how does that next tier creep up toward joe biden or what happens how does he fall back toward them? >> that's an interesting question. one of the things we've talked about with biden is he's not been that visible. he had announcement speech, a couple major events. the big question with biden, there's two ways to look at his vulnerabilities, one has been tested in a lot of ways, crime bill in the 1990s, stuff he said on busing in the 1970s, anita hill, all of these controversies from his decades long political career, are his opponents going to be able to make hay for them right now. here is the other question, how does he -- he would be the first president if elected ever to reach 80 years old in office. i think in concept voters don't have a problem with a 77, 78, 79-year-old president, but i think the question is what does he look like on that debate stage? what does he look like when he has to be doing events every day, what does he sound like? i do think voters -- you can go

all the way back at the time the oldest president we ever had ronald reagan there was that moment in the debate when he seemed to go blank back in 1984. you saw a ever that his poll numbers crashed. he saved it in the next debate when he said i'm not going to use my pop nent's youth and inexperience against him. you see throughout history the older candidates when they run, when they show signs of age, even something that isn't actually a sign of age but looks like a sign of age that can start to work against them. that's the open question with biden. he would be 78 years old if he's elected president, sworn in, we have never had a president that old before. >> it's something we have seen consultants in campaigns worry about. you saw it with john mccain as well when he campaigned in 2008 amid the financial crisis and then there was before that they had to put out medical records about his time in vietnam to prove that, you know, everything was there. it's an interesting point. >> and reagan somehow overcame that moment to win 49 states. >> yes, he did. >> he did okay. jon meacham as you look at

those numbers they are about where they've been for a month or so since joe biden got into the race. he slipped a little bit in this recent cnn poll but we do seem to have a settling of joe biden at the top with a tier of bernie sanders and kamala harris and elizabeth warren, pete buttigieg coming after beto o'rourke there as well. what do you see as you look at these numbers, jon? >> i continue to be surprised by how well the former vice president is doing and i think it's a great sign that folks who are at least in a position to be polled are not in the same place that the progressive part of the democratic party at least as it projects itself in social media and on cable, in the political world, that that world seems less controlling of the process than, say, folks who might be more part of the reagan democrats who came home maybe once or twice for clinton, gave obama a chance twice, but who

were not thrilled about secretary clinton. one of the things, and steve has forgotten more about this than i know, but one of the things about presidential elections is they are not referenda so much as choices. it's not adds though donald trump was presented to the country in 2016 and basically we said, do you want him to be president? that wasn't the way it worked. it was coke or pepsi and the country chose trump compared to clinton. so where you get when that field of five, six, seven win knows down to two or three on the democratic side, that's going to be a very interesting question, if it becomes binden and sand s and harris or whatever it becomes, that's the next round of this. it probably won't happen, right, until after new hampshire. >> just in terms of -- you can put some numbers on this, too, i think. one of the other things they ask in this cnn poll is with all

voters, the favorable, unfavorab unfavorable, likability, if you want to try to put a number on likability ask a favorable/unfavorable question. they've got biden with all voters, general election voters at 46-38 favorability biden is one, number two is sanders, number three is warren at 33-38. by comparison as a reference point on election day 2016, hillary clinton was at 43-55. if there is a theory, the idea of a choice for those that didn't like trump or clinton, if you can be north of it it might be a good thing to keep a mind on. >> one question i have from those numbers is does bernie

sanders have a ceiling as the sort of anti-biden in the race? right now, you know, things will change, they can change, but you have biden and you have these other can dates and it eseems t me that somebody is going to emerge at the alternative to joe biden. but a question that i'm looking at is does sanders remain the sort of antibiden choice, or will warren, harris, or even buttegieg. maybe for someone looking for someone younger that is not

bernie sanders. >> the first african-american president elected, and then were democrats next supposed to get the first woman into the white house. >> yeah, that explicit question has been asked in a couple poles i have seen. it doesn't sound like voters are prioritizing it. last you in the midterm cycle, in the house races in particular, is seemed there was a premium to being a female candidate. they were saying look i have five choices for congress, i wou would rather nominate a woman. it sud not, don't think, translating right now. >> i ask that question because

if you look at biden an bernie, 57% combined by old white guys. the main divide in the primary now does not seem to be between male and female. it's really the candidates, the ideal that we need a res sor rati -- restoration or revolution in washington. people that was a restoration they felt like it worked okay but it wasn't crazy like it was now. another group of voters think we have a fundamentally change what is going on there. it's not just trump, he is just the apothasis. joe biden is grandpa joe and i

think his age works for him. >> yeah, i mean one of the interesting things is that young versus old divide and the social attack coming from the republicans. but i want to pick back up on the question about whether or not democratic voters are demanding a woman president. one thing that i'm picking up and it is almost a third rail that is hard to talk about. but there are some people who, when you talk to them privately, they think that hillary clinton moved that a woman could not beat donald trump and there is concern about that. is that the case and is there truth to it? >> there has been a debate slightly quietly in hush hush

tones, does electability mean that you can't have a woman because hillary clinton was unable to get white women voters, and if trump who had such an egregious record for how he talked about women, when i was speaking to voters, it is three white guys in their 70s and democratic voters say will we elect a gay man before we get a woman, talking about pete buttiegieg. why is amy klobuchar and kamala harris not getting enough tension. i don't think that is necessarily the case, i don't think we're dleb rateeliberatel

securing osecur our coverage. they will go with whoever they think is the most likely to do that. >> with that said elizabeth warren is climbing and smart people say don't count out kamala harris. how will indiana voters respond to her progressive messa message? the all-in town hall will be here on msnbc. a top democrat says the house will eventually impeach trump. plus, it could be a dramatic act

of defiance, former oklahohomel security secretary jeh johnson is going to to auk about tariffs. we'll weigh in on that and more when "morning joe" comes back.

hey, hey, hey! hey, hey! whoa! hi, sir. >> i asked for your attention to a much bigger idea. >> thank you so much, sir, for your big idea, but we want to make sure that we are able to get through this. okay, it's okay, folks. it's okay. >> kareem jean pi -- also with

us, capital correspondent and the host of kacie dc, peter hoss, john mechum, eugene robinson, and chief white house correspondent peter baker. first of all, great job, that's all i can say, seriously. a lot of people saw that and i can't imagine what it was leek to have a prom nant sitting united states senator running for president and having no idea when you stepped in front of

that guy what his intentions were. good on your for the courage you showed and you stood your ground. i said i know who i want to moderate my next panel. take us through what happened on saturday. >> the conversation that we were having before he jumped on, we're talking about gender gap, race, three women of color on stage having a really inciteful conversation. it was her big idea, and we are just talking about, and going into depth, and here comes this guy with all of his male privilege and says i have something better to talk about, i have something that i want to talk about, there is an insulting component of it and the frightening part of it as well. when i saw him i wasn't sure what was going on. i was kind of staring thinking who is this guy and when he made

his way toward the senator i thought oh, no, the outcome is what i was worried about. i thought virginia beach had just happened the day before. we have had hate crimes rise, and i thought he is is a sitting senator, running for president, a woman of color, anything can happen and i just thought anything could happen. i was not thinking about what could have happened to me, i was thinking about what could happen to her and he is was, you were asking me what he is was hike and he is wshe was fantastic, h went off stage and came back and we continued the conversation and i apologized to her when he is said no, thank you, i'm so proud of you and what you have been doing. and then she called me on sunday just to check in and see how i

was doing. so i said this last night on rachael maddow been it really made me think about what we're missing in the country. common human decency. people saying thank you and worrying about you, and we just don't see that anywhe more. i have had so many women of color saying to me i experienced that and no one came to my aide, i had a woman text me last night that said i just feel like black women are the most disrespected women on the planet. people are really, women in particular, are feeling that moment they saw on the stage. >> i think a lot of people will be surprised to know that senator harr eeris doesn't have security. and are they reviewing, to the

extent you're away of the security measures around the candidates. >> we did not have that conversation, it was just a check in, i don't know on our end i have to be very honest. we need to figure out and figure out what happened, how did this guy get on stage? and we need to make sure that never happens again. it needs to be flushed out and figured out. >> most people don't realize that they don't have security. >> almost none of them do. occasionally if there is a threat they will gave sitle senate security, but once we get down the road of the campaign it will be the secret service's responsibility, that is typically threat based. so bernie sanders used to pay for his own security. >> and barack obama in 2008 they

gave him security because the risk was so high, the threat was so high, and that was in the primary. >>. >> great job, your instincts were incredible. >> and thank you for the shoutout on sunday night. >> congressional republicans have begun secretly discussing a vote. it are go into effect next week. the vote based on anonymous services, republicans are considering overrides president trump's national emergency declaration. removing the president's power to unilaterally impose the new tariffs. some white house officials are reportedly aware that lawmakers are considering this tactic but

they have not yet decided how to respond. let me ask you kacie, how serious is this, it is more like anonymous reporting right now, are republicans going to step up against trump this time? >> we're working on getting this nailed down, but if republicans were to do this it would be a significant step. the nature of it means they're angry about tar reves. they stood up to him on this issue in the past, but to take him on on border wall funding to make it happen, that is potentially explosive. i think it makes a statement how strongly they feel about this economic policy, but it would be an act of defiance on a level that we have not seen.

>> and it is surprising because of their lack of willingness to stand up to the president, but this goes against conservative orthodoxy. we could not get sean duffy to break on if they are taxings on consumers, but consumers would say say of course they are. we are losing money on the tariffs. . the other thing is the law that was used to justify these tariffs is wrong. are they going to allow all of these delegations of responsibility to the president. he uses it time even time again.

congress is essentially taking itself out of the picture and it passed over 100 pieces of legislation. the sport to go home with all of these territories. and when congress has to say is hold it, this was never our intent. we're going to begin to take back some of our power in article one of the institution. and he runs into a bit of a buzz saw. if this becomes a question of institutional economic probative. >> i'm with you but i have been surprised by the number oaf times that congress has been willing to give up their own prerogatives in the face of this president. it just has not been true under this administration. but i do think your point is a good one and i think claire mccaskill was trying to make

this one. the idea that they would unilaterally this is crazy. >> we know that the president likes tariffs because it is something he can just do. >> you hear noises from republicans from time to time about how this is the time they will finally stand up to president trump, and it rarely happens. it's not that it has not happen, they did pass sanctions over his objection way back in 2017. there has been moments where republicans said okay, enough is enough, but not on something quite as significant and central to his political agenda as this.

it would be a very big deal. i'm not sure i see it happying and we're not sure that the president could even follow through on this. it is possible that he could put on these tariffs of 5%, and then come up with a reason to say that mexico has starts responding. i will back off and we will get our results. >> jean, do you share the concepti skepticism that they will draw a line in the sand. i certainly understand, you know, i think the post reporting on this is great that these conversations are going on, but in the end, spoiler alert, they're not going to challenge

donald trump with the election looming and giving their record and just rolling over to whatever this president wants. and so this executive power grab is going to continue. i don't think they will look for this basic power they once and and that really ought to be theirs but i don't think it will be there. >> it is extreme, how much they have seeded power to the executive branch. >> right, and they're not going to give up the power, right? this is a pretty serious thing that he is doing. hundreds of thousands of jobs will be lost, it will hurt the economy and the border states, but this is his platform. mexico paying for the wall, you know, this is the 2020 platform that he is running on now, and i

don't see republicans sticking up for him, it's like you to see it to actually believe it. and i just don't think they're going to do this. >> john mechum, where do you fall? >> i'm more skeptical -- >> more? maybe less? i don't know. every since he said napolian i have been off of my game. if constituents in states like mine, tennessee, if the business interests say you know what? dwoept want these tariffs, then you have profiles in courage moment because i think money

speaks louder at this point and more ambient that he does a lot of things we don't like, i think money could change that. >> the administration was completely divided on this. most of the administration was united against the president. it makes no tense. mexico doesn't have the capacity to do what the administration is demanding. they're penalizing mexico for something they can't do, and the white house has notdefined specificly what they want mexico to do. we're asking mexico to do things to control flows of people that acquaint even do. this is political posturing. if they want today do something, this is a 1977 law never

intended to be used this way. it makes no sense. i yield to the political experts around the table. in terms of immigration policy, farm policy, this makes no sense, particularly because it is all happening the week we started to put into motion the passage of the new u.s.-mexico trade agreement. >> and the mexico government is showing they would like to head this off. republicans said they want to see the outcome of that before they make this move. >> that would be a huge hit for the mexican authority. you already saw it reflected, but i agree here i think it is quite possible that behind closed doors republicans will say to the president, as they did, do you remember when he said he would shut the border wall as he did when he said he would make health care the

republican party's platform and talk about health care reform and they said no, that is not a winning ticket for you. but this is one you have to drop. this is one that we cannot win on and if it is on something like tariffs that will hit american manufacturers as well on things coming from mexico, the president want as win. he can declare a win on pretty much anything he wants because he has not set what actual outcome could be. he said the mexican government did something, they have a win on this, you see my policy of threatening tariffs, that worked and let's call it a day. >> a point we made to congressman duffy yesterday is worth underlining, walmart's chief financial officer says we will do everything question to keep prices low but increased tariffs will lead town accuraciaccurac -- to increased prices for our

customers. zlsmts according to a new cnn poll 41% say he should be impeached. 54% still they he should not. in comparison to president clinton, polling from 1998 shows only 29% were in favor of impeaching him. how concerned is the white house. there is the idea that president trump is. baiting the democrats into a long impeachment debate. is the white house worried about it? >> no, the number to really look at is 20. an impeachment, they could go to

the house, and there would be acquittal, and they fear they would use that as a symbol of exoneration in the campaign. i think they feel fairly confident about this right now. does that mean he wants to be impeached? maybe not, but i think he enjoys night. they talked about how president clinton tried to be above it all, president trump prefers to dot fighting himself. i think that is just the nature of his personality and policy. >> no one wants impeachment on his record, but the argument that i have heard is look if nancy pelosi and jerry nadler want to call the same witnesses and relit kbigate that, let the get mired in that and we will

get on with the business of the country, right? >> they say that, but they're not looking like they're consumed with the businesses. a lot of times they're talking about fight, they enjoy feegt. there is not a legislative opportunity here in front of them if they can't get this passed, right? as richard just talked about the u.s.-canada trade agreement sits there ready to go, and they side track it but that is probably the only big legislative opportunity they have here. >> peter baker, thank you as always. still ahead on morning joe, there have been all kinds of distudi disturbing stories, children locked in government vans overnight after being separated from their parents. one of them was in the van for

39 hours. we'll talk to the reporter that broke this story. stick around for this, next, on "morning joe." next, on "morning joe." nothing says summer like a beach trip, so let's promote our summer travel deal on choicehotels.com like this: surf's up. earn a fifty-dollar gift card when you stay just twice this summer. or.. badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com

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jointiing us now, jeh johns. i want to start with the article "poched family reunifications left migrant children waiting in vans overnight. this is a stunning story i had to read twice to believe it. >> this is hear breaking, is goes back to last july. 37 children were told they would be reunited with their parents in texas heat after they had been separated and trump reversed the policy and they were starting to reunite with families. so they think they have a 30 minute drive, the parking lot is full of vans, other children

like them waiting to be reunited with parents but i.c.e. did not staff the fabcility. the children had to wait over a day. they were in the vans, they went into the center to get supplies, but essentially that's how long they had to wait and this, we were able to get more details on because my colleague and i had e-mails passed between high loefl feshls th-- levels. this was a botched process. and that is where we were a year ago. today there are still children caught in the middle of a bureaucratic entanglement. that is more reporting that we have this morning from jacob and myself about children still in

border patrol custody. they don't have basic bedding. they're on concrete slabs or outside because they don't have enough room. they're at 97% capacity. these are children, and there is, yes, a huge influx, but part of it has to do with simple government processes and not being able to get the capacity and the manpower to get their most basic needs met on time. >> there is a way to avoid this and that is to not separate the children from their parents to begin with. >> these children today are children that came unaccompanied. the children last summer were separated, but they are considered unaccompanied. >> you have some e mall kor son den

-- e-mail correspondents, and he says there has to be a bet brother access. i hope that question have adjustments to not put tender age kids in this position. an acknowledgment that it was chaotic. >> there was car seats for some of these vans, bringing young children to a center to be reunited. they were not children meant to be separated and the government wasn't really in position to take care of them. today we're learning that just in the past month there was a 1-year-old that came with his grandmother, he was near death, 105 degree fever, and he was considered unaccompanied because he was with his kbrand mother and not a parent. so these children many times

need intense medical care. >> all right, julia ainsley, great reporting, everybody should read the peace. you're doing a great job on this. what is your reaction to that story? >> i'm appalled. i can just envision children being stuck in a van for hours and hours. can i say that i'm surprised? no. the chaos of last summer, the policy that was with little or no planning for how it should be implemented, and the shock waves for that are reverberating today. and i used to tell our

immigration enforcement personn personnel, be sensitive, one high profile case, or two high profile cases in the interior or at the border can under mine our mission, it can cause us to close public support if our larger mission. so be sensitive, don't just think that your job is to go by the book, show some sensitivity to avoid having a 1-year-old in i.c.e. custody for nine days separated from his or her grandmother. let's have sensitivity in how we implement the rules. the world is watching and making judgments about dhs, i.c.e., and our country. these are heartbreaking stories

and regrettably i'm not surprised. >> i think most americans want a functioning immigration system. this is clearly not it. in your experience what works? what is the way to have a functioning system without the material sto terrible stories. >> first, we have to continue to work on the eradicating of violence. it can be be done. not suspend aide, that is the wrong thing to do, and that sends the mejage that there is no hope for you. there are smart things we can do for border security, and question get the next kal government to help us.

when we saw the spike there, and through a constructive engagement we prevailed on the mexican government, and this is a conversation that i had with my counter part, to step up their border security on their southern border which is a smaller and more discreet border. we saw that by august 2014 the crisis was nearly over and they kept that added security in place for at least the next year but their budget was stretched to do so, and we saw the second lowest number of apprehensions. so the mexican government can help if we're willing to work with them nationally. >> i agree.

i would much rather have us give mexico greater capacity. the new mexican government has reduced resources for doing what they ought to do so the conversation we ought to be having is here is extra aide that we will provide you conditioned with the in fact you use it this way. >> this is difficult in mexico. it is considered a human right. i thought they had an open mind about their immigration. i think that possibility of a constructive relationship is now dwindling because of the current administration's ie proech. and insulting the national honor of a nation of 26 million

people. it won't get us where we need to be. >> so we don't disagree. >> it soutnds like you think thy could make a material difference. should they be trying to encourage a different solution? >> most definitely, but, i believe,ly never forget 2014 standing on a bridge between guatemala and mexico and you could see migrantsi dragging a raft across the river. and i can't hem who it was, but he said see you in texas in two weeks. the mexican border with central america is much smaller. it is a couple hundred miles.

and there are ways to step up border security there, keep people off of the trains for their own safety, and you know the reality is that it makes a difference. the numbers went down significantly. >> secretary, you were just talking about 2014 and your experience them, what would you do if you were back in power. what would do you if you were secretary -- >> i would appear on "morning joe" and tell them what i think they should do. >> what would be the first thing you would reverse of the horrible cruel policies we have seen. >> i would reverse the relationship between the white house and the congress. let's start with that. when we dealt with border security in the prior administration it was divided government. all three years i was secretary there was a republican house. so we had to work with republican majorities in congress, and there is no way to

get anything done in this space whether you look at it from the democratic point of view or the republican point of view unless it is bipartisan. you have to get both houses to agree on a specific policy and funding approach. right now the relationship is as poor as it can be. and the democrats don't see much intensive to try to help this white house out in getting where they need to be. >> i'm going to ask you secretary before you go, one other topic that we were talking about is the security of presidential candidates. many people may not know that oklaho homeland security chooses who has security? >> i generally don't comment about security matters. there are circumstances under

which presidential candidates can severe secret service protection well in advance of a coming mayjor party nominee. like president trump and president obama both had. there are guidelines that the secret service will consider and act, if the candidate requests coverage. >> the second day of the president's trip to the uk. protestors are flooding the streets. well have more on his upcoming press conference in about an hour from now. press conference in about an ur from now. nothing says summer like a beach trip,

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live pictures here at 7:41, 12:41 inform london. the president will emerge from there with the prime minister for a joint nice conference in about an hour from now. he is currently in an expanded

bilateral meeting today. teresa may is set to resign on friday, after their meeting trump and may will hold a joint news conference that we will bring you live. what do you expect to see when the president and the prime minister stand next to each other an hour from now. >> some people here are saying that teresa may should take this opportunity since he is is leaving anyway to have a "love actually" moment where the prettyi i british prime minister says we're not happy and you're not a good friend at all. i don't think that is her style. he is is not given to being like that, but there is a host of issues on which the united states and the uk disagree. he is would be in her rights to point those out.

these are serious divisions in the relationship. i just don't quite see her saying mr. president you have not been a good president to the united states. >> even though many pretties on the streets would quite like her to do that. >> i wound who are the love actually actor would be for donald trump, in the movie it was billy bob thorton. >> still ahead on "morning joe" hollywood has popularized a fissi fictional intelligence. we will speak to a real cia agent who pursued some of the most wanted terrorists. of the most wanted terrorists the lexus es...

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he she is an author of "the targeter." we talked about your rise in the cia about where you started and where you ended up. tell us about your story about how you got into the cia on the human resources level. >> i started out, i applied because i saw an ad in "the economist." it was one of the first websites they had for applying for employment. i got a call in 1999 to come in an interview and i joined as an hr person. that wasn't really my academic background, but that's how i got my foot in the door. after hr i joined the analyst side, the director of intelligence, and we right products for policy makers, that's how i got my start. >> what a time in 2000 to be doing at the time. you were 18 months or so away

from 9/11 at that point. >> at that point i was working in a strategic office looking at e l elicit finance. there was a lot of products being written about counter-terrorism and the terrorist issue. but unfortunately we know that 9/11 happened and after 9/11 there was a huge push to move people into counter-term. >> so there is so much written about the red flags missed especially in that summer of 2001, can you attack to the red flags and the noise on the threat of al qaeda and osama bin laden. >> there was presidential daily briefs being written to the white house and some of the

policymakers. the difficulty with that is is the time and place. there was no time and place. >> time means what? >> for when al qaeda was going to attack. there was no knowledge of when. >> also, as one of the policy makers at the time, you get a zillion things coming into your inbox and they don't come in with yellow stickers on them saying, take me more seriously than anything else. so in retrospect, you always say to policymakers, why didn't you see that bit of intelligence. and the truth is it was competing with a zillion other things and people have mind-sets they bring into the job. so it's tough to know what to put the weight on. >> so part of the title, nada, is "challenging the white house." how did you challenge the white house during your time at the cia? >> i was actually on the team that was charged with evaluating whether iraq had anything to do with 9/11 in al qaeda. and we found it did not. but as we know in the run-up to

the war and in colin powell's speech, that was part of the premise for the invasion. there was this loose connection that they were purporting with zarqawi, who was actually a terrorist who was inside of iraq, but he had not yet joined al qaeda. >> so were you pretty clear that there was no connection between al qaeda and saddam hussein? >> yeah, my team was very clear about that. we had been writing products up until the run-up to the war, so it was just, at that point, it was very clear that he had not been part of al qaeda. we had known that he had been co-located in afghanistan, but he had a completely different agenda, different group that he was pulling from, that this was not -- he was not ever tied to nem 9/11. >> so when you presented that information, who did you present it and what was the reaction you g got? >> that was communicated to cabinet members and the white house. there was a collection issue. there was a lot of information around who was iraq really supporting as far as terrorists. so there was a question around whether or not al qaeda was ever really transiting through iraq,

whether they were ever part or tied to the regime. and i think there was a bit of a blind spot to start out with in the cia. but as time went on, before the invasion, the collection was very clear that there was no connection. so that was all communicated then to the white house. >> so the book is called "the targeter," and you ended up being the chief, basically, zarqawi hunter. what's the job description for that? what are you doing every day when that's your job? >> so when i transitioned from being an analyst, which is the person who communicates to the policy maker to the operations side as a targeting officer, my job then was to look for zarqawi and his network and dismantle those pieces. so i think especially at the time, this is really just an operations position. so we were focused on trying to remove the chaos and a big part of that was trying to dismantle zarqawi's network. >> so one lesson of the invasion of iraq was to listen to your

cia analyst closely. we had a white house that was determined in systome respects push a view of the problem on their own bureaucracy and had an idea of what they wanted to do. now, of course, we see attacks on the deep state, we see a white house in some ways at war with its own intelligence apparatus. and i wonder if you think we're coming back to an era where the white house is trying to set the tone and push from the top, as to what it expects from intelligence agencies. and what you think the right balance should be between civilian leadership, obviously, and the national security experts. >> i think we are definitely on a precipice of the intelligence community being pitted against the white house in a completely different way. so this is really about, when i was in the cia, this is about one issue. i think now we're looking at the white house demonizing the

intelligence community quite often, and they're questioning all of the analysis. they're questioning their intent. so i think that is much more damaging. >> interesting. >> i think you make a good point there, because the iraq thing was people were looking for intelligence, made the case for war, dismissing intelligence. and that's a real case of cherry picking. and it was the politicization of intelligence. this is different. this is actually, i think you're right, it's much more insidious and fundamental. it's the rejection of analysis that essentially would be inconsistent with the world view. and it's the -- it's really keeping the intelligence community at bay, at a distance. have you stayed in touch with your former colleagues in terms of moral? how you're handling that? >> i have stayed in touch with some, and especially, it's the same. when i was there, we would ignore what we call the mother ship of headquarters and the spin around a lot of that. so people are still doing their jobs or they're professionals, they're trying to ignore some of the chaos and swirl around this.

but i think eventually it has an impact. i think there's an erosion of trust and there's an erosion of equities. and what their objectives should be. that's my biggest concern. is really where are we now, as far as prioritization of national security objectives. >> we've only scratched the surface of what's in this book. it tackles a lot of big issues including intelligence leading up to the war in iraq. the book is "the targeter: my life in the cia, hunting terrorists and challenging the white house." nada, great to meet you. coming up, president trump is meeting right now with outgoing prime minister theresa may. the two are expected to hold a press conference within the next hour. we will, of course, bring that to you as soon as it begins. you're watching "morning joe." don't go anywhere. g "morning jo" don't go anywhere. [ paper rustling ] exactly, nothing. they're completely different people,

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but you're not mad, because you have e*trade, who's tech makes life easier by automatically adding technical patterns on charts and helping you understand what they mean. don't get mad. get e*trade's simplified technical analysis. welcome back to "morning joe." it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. out west, and 1:00 p.m. in london, where we are awaiting a live news conference in the next few minutes, as president trump and british prime minister theresa may will field questions from reporters. before we take that event live, let's look back at just how the last 24 hours have unfolded on the president's state visit. last night, president trump took part in the first state banquet hosted for an american president at buckingham palace since 2011, where queen elizabeth talked about the importance of the united states and the uk working together. >> as we face the new challenges

of the 21st century, the anniversary of d-day reminds us of all that our countries have achieved together. after the shared sacrifices of the second world war, britain and the united states worked with other allies to build an assembly of international institutions, to ensure that the horrors of conflict would never be repeated. while the world has changed, we are forever mindful of the original purpose of these structures. nations working together to safeguard a hard-won peace. >> keeping with the queen's remarks, prime minister theresa may also underscoring the importance of not only the special relationship between the u.s. and the uk, but of international institutions, as well. she gifted the president a framed pipe script draft of the

atlantic chaptrter. that's the declaration signed by winton churchill and president eisenhower. first lady melania trump was given a tea set. early in the day, queen elizabeth gifted trump a first edition of winston churchill's "the second world war," the classic literary account of the war effort that united great britain and the united states. so katty kay, you were there in london today, where the president will hold a joint news conference with the prime minister. what's been the feeling on the ground inside london and inside the uk of day one and a half now of the president's visit? >> reporter: i guess a sigh of relief that it went off okay yesterday in terms of pageantry. the president, of course, arriving and causing a political stir with a scathing attack on the mayor of london, the city that he was about to touch down in, but in terms of the royal side of things, all of those

weeks of preparation paid off. donald trump is seen to have performed the part just fine. there were no massive royal protocols breached. so you had this kind of odd mixture of the president doing the royal part of it well, as he was meant to, and yet politically and diplomatically, causing headlines here and causing controversy here by being so rude about sadiq khan, the mayor of london, just before he landed. officials on both sides of the atlantic keen to say, this is not about donald trump, the president, this is about the american/british relationship, the alliance of the last 75 years since the 75th anniversary of d-day and how important that relationship has been. but the protests today are against donald trump. he has something like two-thirds of the british public who think he has been a bad, if not terrible american president. and there's not much love lost for the president here. and we're going to see those demonstrations, the protesters already getting ready, just very

close to where i'm speaking to you from today. >> we'll have a report in a moment. jon meacham, as i read about the atlantic charter and churchill, i heard the meacham meter going off. wrote book, about their personal relationship. what are your thoughts as you watch the pageantry of this visit and point back to that time in our history? >> harold mcmillan, one of churchill's successors as prime minister once remarked, we are the greeks in the new roman empire. the british people saw themselves, particularly the british ruling class saw themselves as the wise mentors to this brash, strong, young republic, as it came into global leadership. and that's the image that popped into my mind when i was watching the queen yesterday. this voice of nine decades. her first prime minister was winton churchill. she's had more prime ministers for breakfast than -- it's just incredible, when you think about

her reign. and she was speaking, i think, with some of the wisdom of the ages, which is, these institutions matter, this relationship matters, it ebbs and flows, unquestionably. it ebbed and flowed in realtime. let's not be sentimental. one of the fascinating things about giving the atlantic charter is the atlantic charter is kind of a noble thing in memory. it was essentially a press release that was put out after roosevelt and churchill met secretly at sea in august of 1941. and it was really churchill's courtship of roosevelt. because world war ii began for the british on september 1st -- september 3rd, 1939, when hitler invades poland. we didn't declare war on nazi germany until nazi germany declared war on us. pearl harbor happened, and it took five days before we got into the war against germany. and after the atlantic charter was put out, which was this statement of principles,

roosevelt came back and gave a press conference in which he basically said, well, let's not pay too much attention to that. we're still not fighting the war. stro history is always ambivalent, always contingent. and to me one of the things that's so fascinating here is you do have an isolationist president standing at the great moment, at a commemoration of the great moment of the terrible and tragic cost of isolation. that's going to be an image for the rest of the week. >> richard haass, as we sat here yesterday and watched that pageantry of marine one landing at the gardens there in buckingham palace, greeted was the president by the queen, you used the word hollow. you saw those images and said it's hollow given the state of the relationship between the two countries and given the state of the uk right now. today as the president sits with prime minister theresa may, she's 72 hours away from leaving as the head of her party. so these negotiations as the president pleads with her, half-jokingly, stick around for a while, we'll make a deal, are

those talks hollow as well, given who the president is talking to right now? >> short answer is pretty much. and the president keeps talking about this wonderful economic, bilateral relationship to come. but for all we know, britain's going to maintain some relationship with the eu for not just months, but probably years to come. and the idea that they're going to be free to drop everything european and plug us in, to substitute in the united states for all that they've had with europe, is just not the way it works. ultimately, britain has to choose. but it's not going to have free rein to enter into all sorts of bilateral relationships with us. and also, even if there were a british prime minister that wanted a trade relationship with the united states, negotiating it would be brutally tough, on both sides, getting it approved by the american congress would be brutally tough, given all the structural issues. so this easy talk, oh, put the eu behind you, we're you're future, they're the past, we're

your future, that doesn't work not only with theresa may, who's literally living by the hour now, but with her successor. one other thing, can we talk for a second, the brits don't do anything casually. the atlantic charter, the copy of the churchill book, the queen's talk about the importance of multi-lateral institutions. so much thought went into that. that was message after message after message. essentially, almost schooling an american president who they see essentially as a non -- who does not have, come into the job with great appreciation of history, is not widely read. that was very, very considered. that was their chance to make the case for the united states not abandoning the role it's played now for 75 years. and londoners, as we speak, are sending a message to the president, as well. president trump is very unpopular in the uk, as one group of protesters was able to show. the activist group led by donkeys projected president

obama and president trump's stark contrast in uk approval ratings under the tower of london land. the group also turned madame tussauds' dome-shaped building into a giant "uss john s. mccain" hat. the president who is mainly shielded from the protests inside buckingham palace yesterday tweeted that he hadn't seen any protests yet. that may be because trump opted to take a helicopter for the three-mile trip to buckingham palace, unlike president obama in 2011 who used a motorcade and not marine one for that same voyage. today, a larger and more vocal protest is expected, including one led by labor party leader jeremy corbyn. as you can see, the infamous baby trump blimp already making itself seen outside parliament. as we mentioned, any moment now, president trump is set to hold a news conference alongside prime minister theresa may. we'll bring that to you live as soon as it happens. and as we prepare for a special episode of "morning joe" live from normandy, france, on thursday to remember d-day on

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this week in 1944, allied forces in europe launched the d-day invasion, storming the beaches of normandy in what became the final push to end the war. those few hours of heroism and sacrifice 75 years ago have lived on, of course, in america's memory and served as a reminder of unity, even when the country was torn apart. joe has his report now. >> reporter: d-day, june 6th, 1944. the allied landing brought the force of the free world to bear on hitler's war machine. courageous americans, canadians, and brits fought their way on to french shores, then to paris, by

the end of august, and on to total victory in europe less than a year later. it was all born through a vicious night and bloody dawn, when wave upon wave of american boys dropped out of the skies into hostile fields or threw themselves on to omaha beach, many to fall and never rise again. never to see the world that their sacrifice made possible. in the words of president franklin roosevelt, they yearned but for the end of battle, for their return to the haven of home. the victory of d-day, the great undertaking never seen before or since, pulled americans together, even when the coming years would tear them apart. >> for nine days, american and south vietnamese troops have been trying to take a mountain near the ocean border and ten times they have been thrown back. the mountain has come to be known as hamburger hill. >> reporter: 25 years after d-day, the 101st airborne, the

same division that mounted the invasion of normandy, but stocked with a new generation of soldiers, tackled its own deadly siege. >> 3,000-foot-high hamburger hill maintains the a shau valley. units led south vietnamese against the crest of hamburger hill and took piit. the ten-day offensive cost 55 american lives and 300 wounded. there was a suggestion out of saigon today that the determination to take the hill at all costs was dictated by plans to build a strong south vietnamese bastion in the valley. >> reporter: but unlike the fight in france, the military planning didn't live up to the bravery of those who fought and died. >> hamburger hill no longer has any military significance. its cratered summit where one of the bloodiest battles of the year took place has been abandoned. >> reporter: at home, days before d-day's 25th anniversary,

residents of foxborough, massachusetts, held a marathon vigil, reading the 35,000 names of vietnam war dead through the day and night, reading it by flashlight. >> otto palmeyer iii, palm desert. >> joseph arrington of phoenix. >> emmett may junior, columbus. >> the wounds of that era would take years to bind, as nbc's david brinkley tried to put the feeling into words on d-day plus 30. >> those old enough to remember will remember. those who are not missed something. a day 30 years ago when the american people were united as they seldom, if ever, have been since. it was the day of a tremendous invasion of a european continent occupied and controlled by a madman. the beginning of the end of a war the american people believed in, supported, took part in, and took pride in. to younger americans who grew up

in the years of the vietnam war and all of the dissension and division it brought, that may seem hard to believe, but that is how it was. everyone felt directly or indirectly he had a part in it and did. it was regrettable it took a war to do it, but there it was. and it was regrettable the american armed services do not now command the same public admiration they did then, but that is largely the work of politicians, civilians who have misused them for unworthy purposes. and those who grew up in a generation to have division, disunity, conflict, and crime, who can hardly imagine the american people being in full agreement on anything, making sacrifices willingly, feeling they were a part of something they believed in may hope that some time we'll see that again, preferably without a war. but whether or not we ever have it again, we had it once. >> reporter: as the years went

by, veterans render to normandy to pay their respects. >> the most famous old soldier here was general of the army, omar bradley, the commander of the americans on d-day. now 86 and in poor health, he stayed in his car, avoiding the blustery weather. >> i think we remember the pain. i think we become more sentim t sentiment sentimental. i think we cry easier now than we did in them days because of the memory of all the fellows that died here. and we find it very, very painful to remember a lot of these things. what makes it nice to be back is the warm reception and somebody appreciates what we actually done. i'm amazed that somebody cares about us back home. they could care less. >> by the 40th anniversary, the boys who fought their way into france had begun to journey into their golden years and they returned once again with president ronald reagan, who dedicated a memorial to their

bravery. and the ones who never made it home. >> 40 summers have passed since the battle that you fought here. you were young the day you took these cliffs. some of you were hardly more than boys with the deepest joys of life before you, yet you risked everything here. why? why did you do it? it was the deep knowledge and pray god we have not lost it that there is a profound moral difference between the use of force for liberation and the use of force for conquest. you were here to liberate, not to conquer, and so you and those others did not doubt your cause. you all knew that some things are worth dying for. one's country is worth dying for and democracy is worth dying for, because it's the most deeply honorable form of government ever devised by man. >> reporter: we are bound today, reagan said, by what bound us 40

years ago, the same loyalties, traditions, and beliefs. >> there's a certain simulaymme tonight. president bush outlining his plan to protect america against the new threat of terrorism on this, the 58th anniversary of d-d d-day. >> to band together for something greater than themselves. >> america is leading the civilized world in a titanic struggle against terror. tonight, over 60,000 american troops are deployed around the world in the war against terror. >> reporter: the decision to go to war with iraq was controversial, and divided american and french leadership. the bitter feelings lasted into 2004, when for the 60th anniversary of d-day, france and the united states set aside their differences and celebrated the sacrifices they all shared. >> it's very important to have ceremonies like this, to remind americans, especially at a tough

time right now, about what's the best, you know, the best elements are of the united states. >> the generation we honor on this anniversary, all the men and women who labored and bled to save this continent, took a more practical view of the military mission. americans wanted to fight and win and go home. >> reporter: americans want to win and come home. it was that way in normandy and on hamburger hill, on the patrols in iraq, and in the outposts of afghanistan. the best of america united, ready to give, and to secure the place we call home. >> and joining us now, author and historian, tim booufry. his new book is "appeasement: chap chamberlin, churchill, and the road to war." it's great to have you with us. i want to speak specifically about your book in just a

moment, but also as you sit there in london, an extraordinary few days with the president of the united states visiting currently in a meeting, about to have a press conference with a prime minister who will be gone in 72 hours. what's going on there on the ground? >> well, donald trump is a controversial character here in the uk as he is in the u.s. and it would be fair to say that opinions about this state visit are divided. not many american presidents get to have a state visit, and it's fairly controversial for a first-term american president gets to have a state visit, particularly one who hasn't always been so complimentary about some of our politicians, including the prime minister whom he is meeting with at the minute. >> in your book, you talk about another leader of the uk. neville chamberlin. obviously, this is a story that's been told about appeasement, the lead up to world were ar ii, the rise of a hitler, but you found some new

information, some previously closed records. what new light do you shed on this story? >> what i was so struck by in researching this book is the amount of people who did not hold official positions within the uk who nevertheless traveled to germany in the 1930s, to try and broker peace deals with the nazi government. and by going through a number of papers relating to some of england's most famous aristocrats i was able to really understand their motivations and what they were getting out, or at least what they thought they were getting out of meetings with hitler and his leading supporters. >> tim, will you talk a little bit about the doubts that chamberlin and the other defenders of appeasement had about it. how confident were they that it would work? and were they at all prepared to entertain the alternatives, or did they assume that if it didn't work, the country would turn to someone else, as they obviously did with churchill? >> neville chamberlin was actually an incredibly confident

prime minister, contrary to the myth that is grown up about him. he was ruthless in his determination to see his policies through. and he did think that it would lead to success. and right up until almost the outbreak of the second world war, he still thought that some sort of diplomatic solutions to europe's problems could be found. and it should also be pointed out that president roosevelt also felt that a diplomatic solution could be found. and even though he was far less engaged because of isolationism in the united states, he nevertheless also supported elements of the appeasement program as it went through. i don't think chamberlin ever thought that he was going to be replaced by churchill. indeed, he did everything he could to stop himself from being replaced by churchill, right up to the moment that churchill actually booted him out of number ten. >> jon meacham? >> did you find that the sense of the churchill/chamberlin relationship changed over time? i think churchill gave a remarkable eulogy for chamberlin. a lot of that, i think, had to

do with internal political dynamics, but could you talk about those two men, who are now seen as these polar opposites. but, in fact, i think were rather personally close. >> yes, it's quite right to say that they became close, but they never were at all close, despite having been politicians who worked together in cabinets and the house of commons for about 20 years before the outbreak of the second world war. but when war breaks out in september 1939 and churchill was invited finally to join the government, he is incredibly loyal to neville chamberlin. all of the doubts that this great personality couldn't be loyal and couldn't hold any position but the top position evaporate. and he shows himself to be a very trusted colleague. he doesn't agree with chamberlin on all elements of strategy. he wants to go in and mind the waters around norway to stop the shipment of iron ore to germany and the failure to do that leads to the german invasion of norway in early 1940. but the two men do become close

and there's certainly no case of churchill ever undermining chamberlin once they're in the government. >> tim, this story of appeasement is fundamentally at the end of the day about what happens when you fail to stand up to authoritarianism and aggression. what lessons did you learn researching this book that you think we should be paying particular attention to today? >> well, i think it's very important just to remember who your real friends are. and to not treat them too lightly. one of the reasons that i think the dictator states were able to flourish in the 1930s was that the liberal democracies did not work in unison. there was the possibility of a anti-nazi coalition, that would have involved in united states of america, bruitain, france, austria, poland, even another deeply na lly exproponent of ex

was opposed to naziism. so if i'm looking at the world today and it has great resonances for your president over here is to not discount your traditional allies and look to try and broker deals with people who have traditionally not wished liberal democracies well. >> tim, nick confessore here. the people who write about this era often focus on the other guy, who is world famous, a great figure, winston churchill, beloved by republicans and democrats, i'm curious, what made you decide to go look at the other other guy, to focus on chamberlin, to look at person who's often thought of as the weakling, the appeaser, the person who did it wrong? >> well, i thought that for one thing, this word "appeasement" has been used so much since, almost every single foreign intervention since the second world war has cited the munich agreement and appeasement as a

lesson. it's true of korea, it's true of vietnam, it was true of suez and of iraq. i think there's a validity in trying to understand appeasement as it was actually practiced in the 1930s and the man who really led that policy was neville chamberlin. and it's important to understand what neville chamberlin was trying to do. and contrary to myth, he was not a weak man. he was incredibly ruthless and determined prime minister. he just made the wrong judgment. he judged that adolf hitler and the nazis were reasonable men with whom you could do diplomacy. and actually, these were not reasonable men, and therefore, in some sense, appeasement was always doomed to failure. >> gene robinson? >> i just have a question about the word. was that word used then? what did the word mean now and how did that duffiffer from what means -- what did it mean now and how does that differ from

what it means now? >> yes, well, appeasement was an absolutely normal word to use throughout the 1930s and indeed was used about the 1920s. a literal definition, trying to just bring peace and goodwill and ease tensions among states. this is an entirely laudable concept. it's become a purely dirty word since the munich agreement and what was seen as -- rightly seen as hitler's perfidy when he invaded czechoslovakia in 1939. so nowadays to call somebody often appeaser is a huge political insult, but at the time it was widely used and had no negative connotation at all. >> the book is called "appeasement," tim, thank you so much. we'll be reading along. appreciate it. still ahead this morning, we are awaiting president trump's news conference alongside british prime minister theresa may. that will be getting underway in just a few moments. don't go anywhere. we're coming right back. moments don't go anywhere. we're coming right back.

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joining us now, former adviser and head of broadcast communications for british prime minister theresa may at 10 downing street, tom swerdlick. tom, great to have you with us, as we look at a live picture,

1:33 london time, the front door at 10 downing. the prime minister and president of the united states will step across the street into a courtyard and have a joint news conference we expect about 10 to 15 minutes from now. of course, we'll bring that to you live. what should we expect, tom? you were an adviser to the prime minister who was a short timer. what should we expect to see in a few minutes? >> i think it's going to be blockbuster, whatever happens. it's the president of the united states giving a press conference. it's always full of drama. one of the things that's going to make this very, very odd is that this the last time they will have a press conference together, barring anything very dramatic happening, because the prime minister is on her way out. she's picking up her coat and saying, thanks very much, she's off. so the british press here are looking for a moment where the prime minister perhaps unleashes a bit, where she perhaps says how she's feeling. people are looking for a "love, actually" moment for tereheres y may. i'm not sure. that's not her style.

but let's wait and see. >> tom, we're laughing only because that very reference came out a short time ago, someone hoping for a hugh grant to billy bob thornton moment. probably not going to happen the way it happened in the movies. but what about where the country is, as we stand here today? we're in the middle of this brexit conversation. it's a problem that theresa may couldn't fix and will be left for the next prime minister. >> yes. and the problem is caused by brexit don't go away, regardless of who's going to be the next prime minister. so whoever takes on the job is going to face similarly difficult circumstances. i think trump's involvement on brexit has been interesting. he started off by saying that the deal that she had worked out with the european union wasn't going to be able to facilitate a trade deal with the u.s.. it strikes me that he's tempered some of that language now. he's talked about getting a deal once the shackles are off. that could mean with a deal that the eu and the uk have agreed, although the uk has yet to ratify. so maybe someone has had a word

with the president and say, look, we don't need to crash out, we don't need to go wto terms, to have a decent trade deal with you guys. >> karine, the president joked earlier to the prime minister, stick around for a little while, we'll make a deal together. >> right, it's so mean. but tom, i wanted to ask you, what does theresa may want out of this? she's going to be out in a couple of days, you know, clearly she and donald trump have not had the friendliest relationship. what does this mean for her on her way out? >> i'm tempted to say, just to get through it, but that wound fair. i think, look, the president, when he's made a decision seems to be very hard to dislodge from that decision. and of course some of the decisions he's made the uk doesn't agree with. i've listened to the president and the prime minister one on one together. the president is much more flexible when he's making his mind up. and the uk, the proouime minist and other senior diplomats within the government have tried to get to him in a way to change his thinking.

you heard it from her majesty, the queen, last night, talking about multilateralism, the ties that have bound our nations together and other nations together in the west to defeat the scourge of fascism from the nazis all those years ago. it's an indication to the president that while he's going around trying to blow up several of these institutions to just be a bit careful about undermining the global world order quite so much. >> tom, it's richard haas here. this is the prime minister in one of her last chances to shape her legacy. so what might she do so she's simply not seen as a somewhat hapless prime minister? and consistent with that, does she have a preference as to who secedes her? >> i don't think she does particularly have a preference. i have not heard her talk about one before. but i have slight issue with the idea of being completely hapless. look, i get how this looks. she hasn't been able to deliver her central policy. as a diligent, dutiful prime minister behind the scenes, she

was always very careful to try and make things actually change for people, to actually try and deliver. she would always say it was about what i could do for them rather than about herself. that has positives and negatives. she wasn't very good at interviews, for example, but for her, this moment as part of her legacy, the reason why i don't think we'll get the "love, actually" moment is because she won't make it about her. she will continue to do the things that she would have done even if she weren't leaving, despite the fact that she is. >> tom, stay with us, if you would. we're going to fit in a brief break here on "morning joe." back on the other side, we're expecting that news conference right where you're looking right there. that's the foreign and commonwealth office court yard just across the street from 10 downing, where president trump and prime minister may are finishing up a bilateral meeting. they will walk across the street and deliver that press conference a few moments from now when we come back on "morning joe." w when we come ban "mniorng joe." i'm here with the cortezs, lawsons, carnevales

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pictures at 1:42 in the afternoon in london. on the left side of your screen, 10 downing street where the president of the united states and prime minister theresa may are finishing up a bilateral meeting. at the center of your screen is the site just across the courtyard there of the foreign commonwealth office, where the president and prime minister will hold a joint news conference any moment now. and then over on the right, protests filling the streets of london. last time, it was 250,000, last summer. we don't have numbers yet, but they are parading from trafalgar square to parliament square in protest of the president's state visit to the uk. >> tom swarbrick, i think you're still with us, watching this all unfold. you mentioned you've been in the room for some of these conversations previously. and you touched on how theresa may kind of approaches this from a policy perspective, but i'm curious, what did you observe about the personalities of these two people interacting? i mean, do they have anything in common at all? >> well, two more opposite

politicians you couldn't possibly wish to find. i mean, theresa may has been stuffing envelopes for the conservative party since she was 12 years old. i'm not sure she really got into twitter until she became prime minister. whereas he, the president of the united states, has been pretty favored it. i actually think they got on. in the discussions that they had, it was all very cordial and polite. there were moments where they had to be direct with one another. clearly, they don't see eye to eye on a great deal of the decisions that the president has made, but, yet, there is a mutual respect there. i think he was quite respectful of her when she would offer sometimes advice, sometimes a bit of guidance, whatever it might be. so there was certainly a warmth there. i wouldn't overstate the warmth, because they had to be direct with each other at times. but certainly from her side, there was a clear sense of the history of the things that we had gone through as nations over the many, many decades and centuries. whether that's true of the

president of the united states, i think we're yet to find out. >> jon meacham, you wrote the great book, franklin and winston, i expect you won't be writing one entitled "donald and teresa." >> it sounds like a sequel to "thelma & louise" that you wouldn't want to see. straight to netflix. i was just thinking, 79 years ago today, the man who lived in that house, winston churchill, who had finally become prime minister on the 10th of may, 140, gave one of the great speeches of all time, really, when he -- it was the text of defiance, when he said, we should find the beaches and the landing growns and fight with growing strength and confidence in the air, we shall never surrender. it goes on that way. the end of that speech is fascinating. because he said, even if this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then we would carry on the struggle from overseas until in god's good time the new world and all its power and might

steps forth for the rescue and liberation of the old. the new world in all its power and might. britain had to look west for their salvation. they stood strong. churchill and great britain made victory over nazi germany possible. but we completed the task. they stood in the breach while we were fighting a force largely embodied by the phrase, america first. and isolationism has an immense price. heedless interventionism does, as well. but the art of state kraft is finding the golden meme there. and so much history has unfolded on that little piece of real estate, where the president of the united states now is, i think we should watch this realizing that it's a story that for americans, we are always confronted with a question, are

we going to pretend that our oceans protect us, or are we going to remain engaged in the world. nick? >> tom, a question for you, it's nick conconfessore. what we've seen so far is a political establishment in the uk that can't decide exactly how it wants to go about brexit and a prime minister who's tried to make it happen several times and failed. the president of the u.s. has weighed in from afar, thrown pot shots sometimes at not doing things right or fast enough. and i wonder if this is her val can that person create a consensus around how to proceed on brexit, when even the two different parties, the major parties can't come to an internal consensus among themselves how to do it? >> it's a fantastic question. and i'm afraid the truthful answer is, no idea. there are candidates to be prime

minister who say, well, come what may, on the 31st of october, we leave the european union with or without a deal. the reality is, that looks very, very hard to achieve in parliament that is made up largely of people who wish to remain in the european union. so you might end up with a set of circumstances where in order to push no deal through, the government is brought to its knees, is collapsed by the labor party, the opposition party, and members within the conservative party. and we get a general election. and there are plenty of people saying that come the end of this year, we could well have three prime ministers and still no brexit. i mean, i know in america, things have been difficult for you guys, your politics has changed. britain is saying "hold my beer" at this moment. we are in trouble. >> on that note, tom, stay with us, because we want more of that. we'll fit in a brief break as the president and the prime minister give us some time to do that as they wrap up their bilateral meeting at 10 downing street. we believe on the other side of our commercial break, we shall see them shortly for that joint

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london bureau chief at "the post" in the 1990s, i should remind people. you've seen a lot of these joint news conferences. you've written and talked a lot about the special relationship. worth taking a step back today, though, i think, and looking at the -- just the image of this joint news conference that we'll see in a moment. you have a prime minister who will be leaving as head of her party in three days. and on the other side at the podium in his first state visit to the uk, you will have the former celebrity businessman and host of a reality show, now president of the united states, conducting a joint news conference. >> yes, i mean, you have a british prime minister who's had her ups and downs, a lot of downs, and you have a u.s. president like none other. i think that's a safe thing to say. you know, today marks another anniversary. 30 years since the massacre at tiananmen square in which hundreds if not thousands of peaceful protesters were slaughtered. one would think that an american president and a british prime minister speaking together might

mention that in an affirmation of shared ideals with democracy and human rights. i wonder if we will hear anything like that from donald trump and theresa may, or even if they have that kind of conversation. >> we shall see. richard, we were just talking, we take jon meacham's earlier warning not to be overly sentimental about the special relationship. >> yeah, you go back, it wasn't always so special. nostalgia isn't as good as it seemed to be. right after world war ii, dean atkinson talked about britain having lost an empire and looking for a role. in the '50s, the united states specifically went against israel, britain, and france and basically threatened to bring down the pound sterling. in the early '60s, they canceled the sky bolt project. the brits saw that as a threat to their independence. most recently, we've had all sorts of issues under this administration. >> let's not forget about george w. bush, as well, that generated

the "love, actually" clip. the third reference. >> not mistaken, it was churchill who first used the phrase "special relationship," but it's become a little bit of a cliche. we talk about it but no one should understand it to mean that the united states and britain have always gotten along or worked together. we've gone our separate ways over any number of foreign policy issues over the year. in some ways what ea's made it special is that we've survived that. >> kasie hunt really driving "love, actually" narrative this morning. it looks like the meeting has broken up, the bilateral meeting. we just saw secretary of state pompeo, treasury secretary mnuchin, acting white house chief of staff mick mulvaney among others leaving 10 downing street. we expect the president of the united states and the prime minister of the uk to do the same shortly to begin that joint news conference that was scheduled for about ten minutes ago. tom, let's reset here for people

just joining, hoping to see this news conference. you worked for theresa may as an advis adviser. what do you expect to see this morning? >> i think we're going to see the themes of what they've been discussing be born out. the china issue is the big geopolitical issue of our time for our two nations. and at the moment, the uk is caught in the middle of the trade war between the u.s. and china and is facing a decision about huawei in particular and how the u.s. would react if the uk accepted huawei as part of its non-core 5g network operations. so we are caught in the middle of a geopolitical struggle between the u.s. and china and uk will have to make a decision. on the point about the special relationship, just briefly. it is worth saying that as we watch the pictures here, jeremy corbyn, the leader of the opt n opposition, a man who could well become prime minister very shortly has been giving a speech at the protest that has been

taking place in central london over trump's visit. and the relationship between the u.s. and uk could change pretty fundamentally if jeremy corbyn became prime minister. he is no fan of the u.s., he is no fan of the president of the united states, he is no fan of israel. so our relations with the u.s. could be strained, as they have previously been done historically, were jeremy corbyn to become prime minister. he is not a fan of american foreign policy. >> that's right. as thompson's speaking, we see national security adviser john bolton and the adviser to president trump and daughter of the president of the united states, ivanka trump leave 10 downing, as well. jon meacham, your thoughts on the state of the special relationship, something that can't be taken for granted, like all relationships, they have to be maintained and fostered through the years. and at an interesting moment right now. >> it is. and we share a certain, both establishments, both the american and the british establishment, insofar as those are real things, are both under

siege. the brexit vote was, in some ways, a -- richard may disagree with this, but in some ways was a warning sign for the populous nationalist vote that brought president trump to power. it's not as though britain gets a cold and we get the flu, but there's a connection between our two politics. and when we project power, we like the idea of following churchill's dictum that the only thing worse than having allies is not having them. and very much, i think, britain falls into that. my own sense is that -- others may disagree, but i think these are fairly resilient and renewable relationships partly because nations are largely driven by self-interest. and if our interests align at a given moment, then, in fact, we

find ourselves back shoulder to shoulder. >> you know, john, i don't disagree with what you said, and i think both the left wing and right wing populism we're seeing around the world, we saw some of it in britain, both reaction to the european immigration crisis and then also some of the after-effects of the 2007/'8 financial crisis. so i think in a sense, there's a bit of similarity on the european elections we saw another round of that play out. my only point about the u.s./british relationship is over time is i don't take it for granted in any way. i think one of the things we've learned the last couple of years is not to assume anything anymore. and for lots of reasons, the foundation of this relationship now for three quarters of a century, i do think, is much thinner than it used to be. and the fact that you do have a donald trump, and that you do have a jeremy corbyn in the kinds of positions of responsibility that they are, that's something of a warning

that what served both countries so well in the past won't necessarily be there in the future. >> well, the supporting players have taken their seats for that joint news conference. you see press secretary sarah sanders now heading out. the meeting has clearly broken up. we will see president trump and the prime minister of the united kingdom theresa may at that podium any moment now. that does it for us on "morning joe." we turn over the coverage now to stephanie ruhle. >> thanks so much, willie. i'm stephanie ruhle. any minute now the president and uk prime minister theresa may will be holding that joint press conference, with an eye on london, i want to bring in jilian tet with the "financial times" and richard stengel, who served as former undersecretary for state and public diplomacy under president obama. welcome to you both. jilian, to you, first, what's expected. what should we be watching for? >> there's going to be a lot of platitudes. the best thing that everyone's hoping for is that the president doesn't say anything too inflammatory. because, of course, we've had a lot of heated words or