you can always find me on social media. thanks for watching. "deadline: white house" with nicole wallace starts now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. no one expected ronald reagan and the boys, no one expected peggy nunes' pros written 35 years ago for a very different man at a very different point in history. what we got from donald trump delivered low expectations. he delivered a speech, honored the heroes of d-day, but it's not that simple. this is why many of us are living through his presidency with clenched stomachs and today was no exception. in the hour before he delivered an address meant to honor the heroes of d-day, he attacked another american hero as well as the highest ranking democrat in the country. in an interview with fox, taped

with the graves of the heroes of d-day in the backdrop, donald trump called vietnam veteran, robert mueller, whose service to his nation spans decades a fool. that interview and trump's remarks commemorating fallen soldiers delivered within an hour of each other. we'll show you both. first his remarks at the memorial. >> they were young men with their entire lives before them. they were husbands who said good-bye to their young brides and took their duty as their fate. they were fathers who would never meet their infant sons and daughters, because they had a job to do. and with god as their witness, they were going to get it done. >> here's that afore mentioned fox news interview taped minutes before he took the stage for

those remarks we just showed you. >> he made such a fool out of himself the last time he -- what people don't report is the letter he had to do to straighten out his testimony because his testimony was wrong. but nancy pelosi, i call her nervous nancy, nancy pelosi doesn't talk about it. nancy pelosi is a disaster. she's a disaster. let her do what she wants, i think they're in big trouble. >> reminder at the beginning of that clip he was calling robert s. mueller a fool. robert mueller is a former marine, he didn't storm the beaches of normandy but seems like the type of soldier who might have. for his actions in vietnam, he received the bronze star as well as a purple heart. he was shot and wounded and air lifted out of the jungle. he once said about his year in combat, quote, i'm most proud the marine corp. deemed me worthy of leading other marines.

and today donald trump called him a fool. and then trump turned his fire on nancy pelosi. here's what she had to say today while she was standing amid the graves of fallen heroes. >> we are divided as a country right now. do you worry about the politics right now, impeachment and everything on the table, and how they can further divide us. >> with all due respect to your question, i'm not here to talk about impeachment. i do say on the subject of our veterans we always strive to work in a bipartisan way. so this is nothing -- not a departure from what we said as a standard. wherever we can, we try to be as bipartisan, non-partisan as possible. that's a comfort to veterans. >> that's where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. princeton university professor eddie glaud. hi heidi prezbela, eugene robinson,

and also joining us robert costa. robert, let me start with you, this is the daily, hourly, second by second existence of covering donald trump even when he manages to elevate himself for a few moments he's always, always, always, always donald trump. >> that's exactly right. and this is a split screen of a trip so far for president trump stirring up all of this controversy from when he was in the united kingdom to now when he is in france and even in ireland. yet at the same time his public remarks when it comes to his scripted speeches have the trappings of what a president would usually say at times like this. he can't resist the pull of domestic politics at almost every turn. >> the attack on mueller seems so senseless, so mindless, even for donald trump. robert mueller is a lot of things, a fool i've never -- robert mueller doesn't have a lot of political enemies. he doesn't have a lot of

domestic political adversaries. he defended the united states as the director of the fbi for democratic and republican presidents. the only person in our country's history to have his term as fbi director extended to serve additional years. before that he was a decorated veteran. just startling to see anyone sit before graves at normandy and call robert mueller a fool. >> well, i mean, the one thing we do know is that president trump lacks the capacity to exhibit a li-- in a number of different occasions and ways. the other thing i would say is he doesn't have a visceral knowledge of how to behave under such circumstances, because he's a draft dodger. this is a guy who refused to serve. he didn't refuse to serve out of a principle, because of a principle reason for resisting vietnam. he had bone spurs. he resisted because he was a

coward. so the idea that he could then pass judgment against robert mueller, whatever you think about it, makes no sense to me. it is actually -- it reveals how he stands in contradiction at every turn, it seems to me. >> and nancy pelosi wouldn't give him that dual today. she deprived him of a political battle because she understood where she was. she had some sharp comments for him and we'll get into them later on her way out the door, about seeing him in prison. but i think she just has this -- and not -- she's normal. like i want to be careful not to praise her. she acted like a normal politician acts, like a normal human act osa ds on a day like . he seemed either oblivious to where he was sitting. laura ingram didn't goad him into attacking mueller or

pelosi, he seemed willing to go there. >> she respects what every other lawmaker that you and i have ever interacted with in terms of basic decor rum, but to eddie's point the contrast here was so sharp. to be sure we've seen many other instances of trump on the international stage not respecting our customs and traditions, most recently just last week with his staff trying to remove the u.s.s. john mccain from a shot. this is regular, it happens all the time. what's so stark about this was behind him, moments -- this was to come moments before what will be most likely the final ceremony for the men who saved us from the nazis. from the men who probably this will be their last major attendance at a ceremony like this. and i saw from our own hallie jackson who was tweeting the timing of this was all the more outrageous just because it was as the ceremony was about to begin. this is where the president's

mindset was, but there's just -- there's something not there in terms of his capacity to filter and to organize his thoughts in that way. for instance, he was overseas when he was having discussions with theresa may, meeting with the royal family and at 1:00 in the morning tweeting about bette midler, the examples abound but in this case the split screen and contrast was one of the sharpest we've seen. >> it shouldn't be a surprise. it's all about donald trump. it's always all about donald trump. you would think before you're about to give the speech, as heidi said, the last time for these veterans, they will not be alive for the next sort of round number anniversary of d-day, they won't, so this is the last chance to honor them. one would think if you were going to give that speech as the u.s. president, he'd be thinking about them. he's not. he's donald trump, that's what he thinks about all the time. i think it's called malignant

narcissism or something like that. that's what he thinks about from the minute he came down that escalator in 2015 to today. it's all about donald trump. that speech was about donald trump giving a speech. >> just to step back for one second. he chose to give this interview to laura ingram at this moment and the white house chose to put him at that place with that host. that conversation was only going to go one way. to me that's a sign of a white house that sees itself as truly embattled and under siege, whenever moment, even the most solemn moment is a chance and platform to carry the attacks against your enemies, that's not a great sign of strength and stability going into 2020. it's all warfare all the time. >> it's such an incredible insight from nick, it's all warfare all the time. just that language in a moment

where he's literally on a battlefield on which americans and our allies died in a real war. how much of this perceived war footing has just intoxicated everyone around him so nobody, nobody ran up to him and said, whoa, i just checked the shot, it's stunning but anything you say will be broadcast on televisions around the world, in front of the graves of americans and our allies who died here? >> there's an ongoing trade war as the president is overseas, he's fighting with mexico about the tariffs, the deadline is monday for the 5% tariffs on all mexican goods to be put into effect, so he's fighting that war while abroad. and if you listened to the president's speech today, he's making a war against international alliances. so much of the speech was framed with the idea of the nation.

not overt, we were looking for that when he was in england. but he's talking about the nation rather than the continent of europe or international institutions, that's what what was a striking take away from his remarks today. a war against the typical u.s. view of international institutions and the european project. >> robert costa, that is an interesting piece of analysis. i've not heard that other places. can you talk about who surrounds him when those -- this was obviously a speech written by somebody else perhaps with or without the president's participation. who are the architects of that -- what you're describing is almost a rewriting of our own history, who were the architects of that? >> we so often hear about stephen miller, the president's speech writer, but the speech writer is vince haley, a little known aide that once worked for newt gingrich. and he's one of those people that tried to channel the

president's nationalism and instincts and make some kind of doctrine out of it. of course, the president doesn't usually articulate anything coherent in terms of nationalism but his advisers like vince haley, mike pompeo are trying to take those instincts and make policy and a message that makes sure the presidency has some kind of take away from it. it's not always easy for them when you talk to people familiar with their work, as you would imagine but that's the aim of their efforts. >> that's the most manturian analysis i've heard. you have people taking these impulses and on a blank canvas rewriting pillars of america's history. >> people have tried to build a trump to doctrine since he arrived in the white house, but it's impossible because he changes his mind a lot.

the man who gave that speech in tribute to the alliances in world war ii is probably the world's most powerful source for disassembling those alliances for taking it apart because he does not believe in it. it was a fascinating moment, perhaps a tragic one, to watch this president give what was basically a requo yum for the alliances and relationships that kind of made it possible to win that war and win that day. >> nick, you and -- you and robert costa are blowing my mind. let me try to throw out some examples of what you're talking about, shoving aside the leader of montenegro, disparaging our allies in north america -- >> encouraging brexit. >> encouraging brexit. >> in the speech he seemed to go out of his way to emphasize sovereignty.

sovereignty of the kind that brought us world war i that wasn't fixed and that brought us world war ii and after world war ii they tried to fix it by establishing an international order, by establishing institutions that knit us together. by establishing the principle of shared economic prosperity. that if ruined europe became rich and prosperous, that would be good for us. that would enhance our safety. and that worked really well for 75 years. and so now we have a president that doesn't believe in that and who wants to go back to a way of thinking about international relations that led to the carnage and disaster of the 20th century. >> this is a guy whose business career taught him in every deal there's a winner and a loser, a winner and a sucker. he brings that idea to foreign relations with the effects we now see. >> let's be clear, this

shouldn't be a surprise to us. the blueprint was given to us when steve bannon and reince priebus sat down. steve bannon said there's three buckets, deconstruct the administrative state, appointing people dismantling the agencies they were over, economic ignorance and governance. tearing up nafta, dealing with globalist. in some ways through tariffs and the like. and the last was national sovereignty. rejecting the post world war ii consensus. so he doesn't pivot in that speech to the institutions that were built post the war. and so what it really reflects is that -- it is in some ways an ideological commitment that bannon gave voice to that he's still consistently governing by.

>> do you remember during the election there was one group that stood above all others in terms of their united opposition to trump and it didn't matter what party you were in, it was national security experts. and it was because they saw exactly this kind of a future, where our alliances would be frayed, perhaps permanently, and i think now if you look into the minds of potentially those leaders of macron and angela merkel standing there. the question is what happens in the next election if trump is re-elected. how much damage has been done that cannot be undone. how much is permanent? >> a big difference between one term and two. >> i listen to speeches like this one today and i think of secretary mattis' resignation letter. a man like mattis who was described to me by his friends as a man with no quit.

he quit. he was a man who thought those in syria's lives were on the line. i wonder if there are other people inside the administration who are getting close to that line when they see the president's conduct and treatment of our allies. >> not to disappointment you, nicole, but none of my reporting would back that up at all in the sense people are prepared to quick and speak out. if you look at the biggest hawks in the republican party, people like john bolton, they're on the inside, and senator ramny has made speeches about how important europe is, but they're not making bids against trump. again and again examples of the republican party embracing president trump together in power and not in any mood to challenge him at all.

>> one more question about what you said and one last question for you. you said he doesn't believe in it. do you think he understands it? >> i'm not sure he does. as nick said, he thinks in every deal there's a winner and a sucker, i think he does believe that. i think that's probably as far as he goes. do you think he's really read -- >> no. >> tombs about the second world war. >> i don't think he's read anything, no. >> you know, if you said the name disrali to him -- come on, no. >> my last question to you is sort of where we started. i guess to the degree i'm disappointed there aren't any more james mattises, not really from any standpoint other than he was truly a human guardrail in there and the fact he was pushed to the point he could not serve any longer in this administration i think was jarring the world over. my question to you, though, is, have you ever seen a party

change so quickly? this was the party -- i read that pat berg my executive producer pointed me to the speech in 1985, that's not a speech that today's republican party could say they stand for. there is no more ronald reagan in today's gop, there is no more john mccain, no george h.w. bush, george bush in today's gop. >> i think when parties change, they change quickly. i think the reaganism arose in basically rose in one term of j jimmy carter. the realignments happen under the surface and all of a sudden explode. i don't think we're going to go back to an institutionalist republican party. there's always going to be a trumpist element carried on by guys like tom cotton, to some

extent, who are not as hostile as trump, but have his idea of the u.s. acting alone when necessary and being a policeman when necessary. >> robert costa thank you for spending time with us. after the break, elizabeth warren and her gut reaction on the mueller report and her clarity on impeachment. before leaving for normandy, nancy pelosi reportedly said she wants to see donald trump in prison. and the 2020 democrats court some of the most important voters in the coalition, in the country i would add, all those stories coming up. stories comin.

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and the afternoon it came out, i sat down and started reading it. and i read it all afternoon, all night, into the next morning. all 448 pages. i got to the end and there are three things, man, there's no avoiding. part 1, a hostile foreign government attacked our 2016 elections for the purpose of getting donald trump elected. part 2, then candidate donald trump welcomed that help. and part 3, when the federal government tried to investigate part 1 and part 2, donald trump, as president, delayed, deflected, moved, fired and did everything he could to obstruct justice. if he were any other person in the united states, based on what's documented in that

report, he would be carried out in handcuffs. now -- i get that this is politically tough. i get it. but some things are bigger than politics. and this matters for our democracy not just now but under the next president and the next president and the next president. we have a constitutional responsibility here. and that's to start these impeachment proceedings. >> when you put it that way. senator elizabeth warren laying out in the clearest terms i've heard so far, the case for impeaching the president based on robert mueller's investigation. it stands in contrast to the hand ringing and e kwquivocatin we've seen on capitol hill every day. starting with the remarks from

jerry nadler. >> are you, mr. chairman, feeling any pressure from your members to at least open an impeachment inquiry? >> it may come to that. it may come to a formal impeachment inquiry. we'll see. >> is that clear? joining our discussion, former prosecutor, paul butler. what's the difference between what elizabeth warren saw when she cracked open and read the mueller report and what nancy pelosi and jerry nadler saw when they opened the mueller report. >> there's no difference in what they're seeing, the difference is what the reaction is. speaker pelosi said he tried to obstruct justice so she thinks he committed impeachable offenses. i think if her end game is to get trump out of office, she thinks a political route,

outside of impeachment is the best way to achieve that result and, indeed, that impeaching the president might gin up trump's base and get him re-elected, which would be counter to her ultimate goal of getting trump out of the white house. >> heidi, this is her goal. politico, pelosi tells dems she wants to see trump in prison, nadler pressed pelosi to allow his committee to launch impeachment, only to be deflected. quote, i don't want to see him impeached, i want to see him in prison. instead of impeachment, she wants to see him prosecuted for his alleged crimes, according to sources. i'm not unsympathetic to the box she's put herself in on this question. but one, in politics when you play pinball, when you say i'm

going to hit here so i land here, you always lose. and two, i think elizabeth warren has this right. politics are tough. politics are really tough. but there is such clarity among the voters, and when you act like you know better than your voters, that is a loser as well. >> and that is the losing battle potentially that they're playing here, nicole. if you drill down to the numbers if they're making this about public popular support, those numbers are moving. it's up to 76% of democrats that want impeachment. we're seeing in the town halls not only are the numbers high, but there's intensity to it. but those voters see the same thing that elizabeth warren is articulating in a way we're not seeing anybody in leadership articulate because yes, they are spooked by history, they're very spooked by the fact this would be a partisan impeachment inquiry and the public can't

distinguish between opening an inquiry and actual impeachment. and secondly, i don't think this gets mentioned enough, she's scared it would fail in the house, she wouldn't have the votes to impeach and that would be embarrassing. she's a shrewd tactician and knows she doesn't have the votes right now. here's the problem, they want to have the hearings because they want to build public support because they want to impeach. they don't have witnesses. the first witness is john dean, great voice but the opening scene is going to be somebody from 40 years ago with watergate. >> this is important. pelosi and warren are speaking to different audiences. the pelosi audience in theory is the marginal swing voter in 2020. and the warren audience is the democratic voter in -- >> i'm neither. let me -- they both work for all of us. they're both public servants,

paid by tax payers. >> but she has no downside, politically, to going in this direction. and pelosi does. that's the difference. >> let me just push back on the political analysis. pelosi has everything riding on this. if he's re-elected and she didn't impeach because she was scared of the politics, then what? then how? then why? and elizabeth warren is running for president with 700 people, she's staking her presidency on her clarity if x and y, he committed crimes and robert mueller found them and said he didn't not commit crimes, then why you impeach. >> if i can jump in. >> go ahead. >> if trump is elected then speaker pelosi doesn't get her dream of prosecution either. the statue of limitations for obstruction of justice is five years. if trump is re-elected, the

earliest he could prosecuted would be 2025, two years too late under the statute. >> to both of your points about the public opinion. this is the kind of evidence, we have this breaking in the last hour. we'll hear a tape, probably in our hour, but this is what it will say. this is the transcript of a tape. it was a phone call between the president's former lawyer in the mueller investigation, john dowd, it was a voice mail that he left on the cell phone or la landline for mike flynn's lawyer. it sounded like dangling a pardon or trying to influence testimony, we'll ask paul butler if i have that right. let me read you the transcript of what we'll hear hopefully in this hour. this is a federal judge who is overseeing mike flynn's sentencing, mike flynn hasn't been sentenced, the president's former national security advisor who lied to the fbi about

conversations and contacts with former russian ambassador sergey kislyak, he was -- this phone call, this voicemail was left for his lawyer. rob, this is john again, that's john dowd, i'm sympathetic, i understand your situation but let me see if i can't state it in starker terms. it wouldn't surprise me if you'd gone on to make a deal with the government. if there's information that implicates the president we have a national security issue so, you know, we need some kinds of heads up just for the sake of protecting all of our interests if we can. remember what we always said about the president and his feelings toward flynn, and that still remains. but well, in any event um, let me know and i appreciate your listening and taking the time. thanks, pal. again, we will hear this audio, maybe in the hour, maybe later today. it is a voicemail left from the president's personal criminal

lawyer in the russia investigation, john dowd, it's cited in the mueller report, the transcript was released last week, the audio has been ordered released, it has been released by a federal judge in the mike flynn sentencing. it is the kind of evidence, paul butler that could do what heidi and nick are talking about, begin to shift public opinion and make the public really take a second look at trump and the people around him who seem to sound like and act like mobsters. >> exactly right, nicole. two things real quick. first hearing it will pack a punch that reading it doesn't. which is why it's so important for the house to haul robert mueller and other witnesses in, even if they just read the mueller report, that would have a different impact hearing it. the other thing is, this is witness tampering. this is obstruction of justice. the president's lawyer is saying if michael flynn tells the truth, that's a threat to national security when the

opposite is true. if michael flynn lied about his contacts with the russians, that's the threat to national security. once again another example of people in trump's world putting trump's interests over the interests of the united states. >> we just got that audio. let's take a listen. this is the president's lawyer leaving a voicemail for mike flynn's lawyer. here it is. >> hey, rob, um, this is john again. um, maybe i -- i -- i'm sympathetic, i understand your situation, but let me see if i can't state it in starker terms. if you have -- it wouldn't surprise me if you've gone on to make a deal with and -- uh, with the government. i understand that you can't join. if on the other hand, there's information that implicates the president, then we've got a

national security issue, or maybe a national security issue, i don't know. some issue we've got to deal with. not only for the president but for the country. so, uh, you know, then -- then, then we need some kind of heads up. um, just for the sake of protecting all interests, if we can, without you having to give up any confidential information. so, um -- and if it's the former, then, you know, remember what we've always said about the president and his feelings toward flynn. that still remains. but well, in any event, uh, let me know and i appreciate your listening and taking the time. thanks, pal.

>> let me reset and we can play that again. we are hearing for the very first time, a phone call significant enough for robert mueller to have been mentioned in his report, the second volume, the obstruction report, this was a conversation that was scrutinized as part of the obstruction of justice investigation. listening to it i think it's clear why. paul butler, i heard echos of you know how the president feels about you, you know what the president might do, he might take care of you, and i want to know, i want a heads up, not just for the president, but for the country. what did you hear as a former federal prosecutor? >> i heard a federal crime. i heard obstruction, witness tampering. the question is, who put john dowd up to this? how much was president trump involved in this? and nicole, this is smoking gun evidence. and witness tampering and obstruction of justice cases, you rarely get it on tape. one of the things that mueller said is that one reason he

wasn't able to go further with obstruction, in addition to the doj policy, is that trump's answers to those written statements were worthless, there were things he wouldn't talk about and that he was evasive on others. i really wish that mueller had hauled trump into some office and made him answer questions. >> let me put a few more facts out there and let me ask a few more questions. this was a period where once mike flynn pleaded guilty, the joint defense agreement was torn up, right? so they no longer had shared legal interest, this call was inappropriate on every level, right, nick? >> it's impossible to think of flynn's lawyer having that voicemail and listening to it, and what was he thinking when he listened to that voicemail and the fact that it now exists for all of us? that voicemail was almost trumpy

in the sense it was a menacing word salad. there aren't a lot of great sound bites out of there. >> no, there are not. >> but it does paint the picture that irsaying, nicole, which is to say he's cloaking the president's personal interest in an aura of national interest. he's saying do us a solid, tell us what's happening, work with us, and maybe we can treat you well. >> it's in line from the reporting from your news organization and yours around especially the obstruction investigation which was that the president's lawyers didn't know anything and they got all their information from the witnesses going in and being interviewed by robert mueller's prosecutors. >> that's the only way they found out anything. they had no idea. they were trying to get information. the part at the end is just like, you know, mike, remember the boss really thinks a lot of him. it's out of a mob movie. >> like a bad one. >> a bad mob movie, yeah. so once again, it's not a question of the evidence not being there.

it is striking and it makes a difference to hear it. but the evidence is there. so the question really is, does the house go forward and, as nick said, nancy pelosi has two things she's thinking about, she's thinking about her house majority and she's thinking about getting rid of donald trump, i'm not sure those are in conflict, she thinks those are in conflict potentially. >> let me come back to you about what an impeachment proceeding means. we had jim comey before the impeachment proceeding began, we only learned this after he wrote his book and was doing interviews, he had the first meeting at the white house on the russian involvement in the election. you could -- i would argue the politics are the wrong place to focus. these are people that act like bad mobsters. >> this took me back to being in

the hearing room with michael cohen. who said this is exactly how trump talks. he doesn't tell you to lie, he suggests you lie and he makes a lot of suggestions and inferences. the reason this is so significant is because this brings us back to square one of this entire investigation and this entire controversy, which was the president asking jim comey to go easy on michael flynn because he knew that michael flynn knows something. >> right. >> and he needed to protect michael flynn. and then firing james comey at the end of it all, and that's what launched this whole investigation. the thing that we still don't have an answer to, which shows whether there was a reward to the russians is what michael flynn knows about what the president knew in terms of husband conversatio his conversations with the russians about the sanctions. so even if there is no underlying conspiracy, crime,

michael flynn knows, if the president after he welcomed this support, used it to great effect in his communications strategy, built his strategy around it, around wikileaks and then sought to reward the russians, michael flynn knows that. >> i want to play it one more time and then get into it with you. what michael flynn is being sentenced for, the reason this federal judge released this audio today is because michael flynn is awaiting sentencing for lying to the fbi about what heidi just described a conversation with the russian ambassador sergey kislyak about sanctions and other topics. we never learned. we still don't know why all the people around the president told so many lies about so many contacts with so many russians. here's the phone call one more time between the president's former criminal lawyer who represented him in the russia investigation and a lawyer for mike flynn who awaits sentencing for lying to the fbi about conversations with russians. >> hey, rob, um, this is john

again. uh, maybe i -- i -- i -- i'm sympathetic and i understand your situation. but let me see if i can't state it in starker terms. if you have -- it wouldn't surprise me if you'd gone on to make a deal with -- uh, with the government. i understand that you can't join -- if on the other hand, well, there's information that implicates the president, then we've got a national security issue, or maybe a national security issue, i don't know. some issue we've got to deal with. not only for the president but for the country. so, uh, you know, then -- then we need some kind of heads up.

so for the sake of protecting all -- all interests if we can. without you having to give up any confidential information. so, um, and, if it's the former, then, you know, remember what we've always said about the president and his feeling toward flynn and that still remains. but in any event, let me know. and i appreciate your listening and taking the time. thanks, pal. >> just two thoughts. nixon was brought down by the tapes. not the brilliant reporting by woodward and bern seen thstinbe. but he was brought down when the public heard the tape. this is the tape of a lawyer who worked for one person, donald j. trump, who said if there's information that implicates the

president, the president can't be implicated in anything other than a crime. then we have a national security issue so you know we need a heads up. that is as paul bler said, asking him to commit a crime for the sake of protecting our interests. they no longer had shared interests. remember what we always said about the president's feelings towards flynn. that seems to be some sort of bribe or promise or dangling of a pardon or good consequence if he doesn't implicate the president. >> so if robert mueller heard this, he would have had the same -- i suspect had the same reaction that paul butler had. this is witness tampering, it's obstruction, clearly. but mueller said, explicitly, that he was under certain kind of constraints, that he could not indict a sitting president. and in some ways that moment when dowd makes the claim that the president's interest is in

alignment with national security interests -- >> with the nation's. >> -- that's a voicing of a certain understanding of executive power. so we have a smoking gun. if paul butler reacted to it that way we should presume mueller reacted to it in that way. what is congress going to do? we don't need politicians right now. we need statesmen and women. we need folk to understand that the very system of checks and balances are -- is at stake here. so what we're seeing here is what mueller told us. if i told you, if he didn't commit a crime, i would have told you he didn't commit a crime. >> did anybody get this? >> maybe mueller speaks in too precise of a language. mueller is saying he committed crimes. >> yeah. >> he could have said he hadn't, he would have. >> he said i can't charge him. so he laid out a blueprint for congress to do something.

instead of congress understanding -- i understand the box that nancy pelosi has put herself in. i you understand the politics of it. but you took an oath. be a statesperson, step above it. right. and do what you're supposed to do. that's what -- at the end of the day, you can walk and chew gum at the same time, i think. >> here's the other problem. if she loses anyway, then what was it all for? >> right. what was it all for? >> here's the thing for political power, it only slips away when you grip it too tight. >> you were right how the bank shot never works. >> believe me i worked for people -- >> exactly. wheel goes this way to end up -- >> i've done it. >> it never works. >> never. >> you end up off the rails. >> you end up with sarah palin. >> sorry about that. but you better go straight at it. and i think, you know -- look at what -- people look to the

clinton impeachment and say, well, republicans -- republicans won the next election. >> here's the other thing, bill clinton lied about personal conduct. >> yes. >> bill clinton wasn't lying about lies about russia. paul butler let me give you the last word. before this gets someone up too much, i guess one of fox's anchors is in a cemetery in france, but the rest of them will seize upon this, this is not at all removed from donald j. trump. this was his personal criminal lawyer. this was someone who spoke for him on what, for a very long time, was the most urgent priority for donald j. trump staying out of criminal trouble. this is john dowd on tape now released making all sorts of claims and commitments to a lawyer for a witness in the conspiracy investigation and the obstruction investigation, mike

flynn. >> this is donald trump trying to protect a man who the judge at michael flynn's sentencing hearing -- remember, nicole, he stopped the hearing and said, i don't understand michael flynn, why you weren't charged with treason, we need more evidence from mueller about why mueller is giving you a break. and mueller said because he was very helpful to the investigation. but the fact is, michael flynn betrayed his country and now we hear donald trump's criminal lawyer saying, yo, the president's got your back. the president's got warm feelings for you. dangling that pardon to a man who betrayed his country. paul butler, thank you so much. glad you were here today my friend. after the break, back to 2020 politics, courting african-american voters in the crowded and competitive democratic primary. that story is next. that story is next [ "done melody" plays ]

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if we can make this a movement election that activates the consciousness of the country that brings out everybody from the sidelines of the democracy to gets on the field. joining together in unison in collective voice and say, i too dream of america. if we do that we won't just win an election, we will change neighborhoods from coast to coast. communities like mine will see a nation where justice does roll down like water. and righteousness like a mighty stream. >> strong, spirited message today about unity, dreams, change from cory booker, at the dnc's african american leadership summit. pete buttigieg has lots of work to do to win over african-american voters. he and beto o'rourke have meetings today with stacy abe roms. particularly as it affected

black voters. everyone's back, i understand that some people have more work to do than others, but i find one, you can't be president -- not just win the democratic nomination, you carpet be president without sort of winning over and convincing african-american voters of your creds, but this seems wide open. it's my sense that everyone has an opportunity to make their case, is that right? >> there's no necessary relationship between cory booker's candidacy or kamala harris's candy daisy and black voters. >> who are not monolithic. black christians are as conservative as mormons. >> black men act more like swing voters. >> we need clear policy talk about voter suppression. about criminal justice reform.

health care, clear policy talk about education, we need clear policy talk about jobs. and so what folks need to do is to come with a plan. and what's interesting about senator warren and others, is that she's driving folks to come to the table with specifics. and i think this is important. mayor pete knows he has to do some work. beto knows he has to do some work. he just rolled out a policy initiative about voter access. it makes sense he would be talking with her. they have to talk to every day black voters. >> you have to look like you're ready to go beat donald trump. >> that's right. >> if you don't. sorry. >> stacey abrams is not covered for what she is in this case. she is a king or queen maker. >> this is the great irony of the situation we're in right now. stacey abrams was the breakout

star of 2018 not beto. she came much closer in a deep red state of actually winning than beto did in texas, which is arguably demographically moving faster than beto did. she did this new york times op ed about voter suppression. she's becoming the sage that many of these candidates are going to for information and advice. she's a woman of color who could enter the stage herself. she's ready for prime time. >> she could. >> i think in politics, right now, there is a job opening. it could be filled by barack obama. but he's a former president. and he probably wouldn't jump into a primary. who are the -- who's the person or the people who are going to be the go tos whose blessing will signal something more

broadly. i think stacey abrams is becoming that person or at least a part of that group in this election which is fascinating. >> i don't know if she's going to jump any time soon. >> might be more powerful if she doesn't. >> might be more powerful if she doesn't. i know she's not running for president this time, but maybe -- you know, a lot of -- you never know. >> she's good. she's really -- >> i agree with all of you. i think they are -- when you have this many people, people are hungry for curators for arbiters. for sort of good housekeeping sales. >> her endorsement is going to be gold. >> we are going to sneak in a break so we get the endorsement we need around here. ♪ ♪ organic plant food and soil that finally work. ♪ ♪ and work... and work. ♪ ♪

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i couldville talked to these friends for another hour. i'm out of time. sorry, into all of you for watching. that does it for this hour. mtp daily starts right now with chuck todd. nancy pelosi says she doesn't want to see president trump impeached. she wants to see him in prison. the chairman of the house judiciary committee is pushing for an impeachment inquiry. plus, contempt countdown. the white house stonewalling again as two top officials face another subpoena deadline today. and still no