loathe. >> i think america deserves a better leader. >> good morning and welcome to "am joy" live from lovely london, england. donald trump took his traveling road show to europe this week having finally scored a uk state visit courtesy of out going prime minister theresa may. also here with other leaders to commemorate the d-day anniversary. an event every modern president has been able to articulate. his trip was different. trump was greeted on the first stop here in london with something he should be used to by now. thousands of people in the streets protesting him. yes, the trump baby blimp made an appearance along with this statue of trump on the potty

holding his phone and perhaps tweeting. you can see a lot of people took to the streets in protest of donald trump who is not exactly popular here in london. of course, trump lives in a different reality where he is beloved the world over. those thousands of people in the streets, they were juthere wavi hello. >> where are these people they are saying were protesting. i saw a group. it was very small. a lot of it is fake news i will say. >> trump was anything but. he had his entire family tagalong for the official visit including the adult children of his first two wives, their spouses and for some reason, steve mnuchin. he threw twitter jabs at chuck schumer and national treasurer

actress bette midler. the trumps were not invited to stay at the palace because of renovations to the 700-plus room mansion. he tried to clean up his comments about the duchess of sussex meghan markle. at an interview with laura ingram at a cemetery. trump being trump, did not seem to be able to keep his mind on them. >> i will tell you the more successful we've become, the more angry people like nancy pelosi, the opponent who shouldn't even be allowed to run. we have schumer who is a disaster by the way, a total political jerk. >> joining me now, a social and political commentator.

lewis, commentator and correspondent and world news editor at the daily beast. i'll start with you, donald trump characterized this visit as being very friendly. you are here reporting from london. he thought he was well received. >> there were protests, it is unbelievable, isn't it, you have to ask me the question and i have to vouch for the fact that there were protests. there were the protests seen in london. this city has seen huge protests. that was not what we saw on the streets at the same time, it felt like we were so short sighted in terms of politics

following every long tweet. you have a queen who knew j.f.k. and many others. for her, president trump is just another president. what they did was underscore the strong alliance with america. where there protests? of course there were. >> i am struck by the optics of donald trump coming to a britain where there is an american duchess or princess. i'm not going to speak for her but she did not see him. put it that way. her husband prince harry who

must be aware of the comments of his wife, a new mom, calling her nasty, coming to the palace and just the opposite of an american president coming when there is an american in the royal family and them not being able to interact and him tagging his family along. i guess they expected the same kind of comradery the obamas had with the family. that clearly is unusual. >> donald trump is a dilutional man who lacks self-awareness and has trouble understanding implications of his words. not only is he american and duchess megan markle is american. he has the politics of hatred and otherizing other people and everything she actually stands for and that the people have welcomed her because she is different and because she

represents something going forward. his politics and whole world view are regressive and retroactive compared to what is happening in the royal family right now. >> it is interesting. i want to show this picture of jared kushner and ivanka trump that has become memed. the whole family being tagged along like this was the trump family vacation. getting write-ups like they are the kennedys. it's weird. i wonder if you can understand theresa may's politics and why she was called in all of this. it was her call to do a state visit for donald trump on her way out the door.

>> she made that commitment when she was looking that he would somehow redeem himself. donald trump said she's a lame duck or someone said, it sounded like lame duck, i'm not sure. i have to defend donald trump here. there were a lot of attacks here. it was mentioned that he said of princess diana that he would be able to nail her. that was not fair. donald trump was a real estate developer. to nail a woman means to secure and be kind to her. he also was accused of calling megan markle nasty. if you listen carefully, he says she's a nazi. they've really been unfair. when people say meghan markle didn't show up.

you have to understand she's just had a baby or as donald trump said to prince harry, that is a stormy time after a woman has just had a baby. it is not as though she could just go out to london and make a public appearance. when you see a video of her today at the queen's special birthday, that is not meghan markle, that is an inflatable. >> martin, you are a national treasure for both countries. the sort of bigger picture here is that this was not donald trump's great european vacation. i've been watching the solemnity

in which europe has come together to remember the war and naziism. here was donald trump. i want to play him at a cemetery. this is one of the most solomn places to be. he's talking to laura ingram. >> do you mind if he testifies? >> he made such a fool out of him self-because what people don't record is the letter he had to do to straight enout his testimony because his testimony was wrong. >> you had this -- on top of that, let me show you one more thing. donald trump signs this d day

proclamation. they all signed where you typically sign things. he had to throw his signature up at the top. i wonder what the rest of the world makes of the presentation of him self. >> they didn't pay much attention to him at all. they essentially ignored it. in france, the d-day celebrations, trump's part was carried deep inside the newspapers. they didn't pay much attention. the british are a little more aggressive in their dealings of trump because they are about to pull out of the europe union and they need the american support. he's giving them bad advise. we have a situation where

britain is going crazy either pro or con with donald trump. the rest of europe has always thought he was insane and a lose cannon and are praying he doesn't get elected. >> what good does he do for the tories? what are they getting out of this trump friendship? >> one aspect of that that boris johnson turned down a meeting. i think it is an illustration of what world leaders around the world have discovered with president trump that actually you fly very close to the sun with this president. that even though you may consider yourself an ally and friend, he can burn you. he burns his friends regularly. it was fascinating to see boris johnson who may well be prime

minister say thanks very well, i don't think i'll meet with you right now. there is one other aspect. that laura ingram from fox news, before president trump began his trip, he did an interview. the murdocks in the background of this because of the money they make and bringing readers because of the spectacle of it. that just doesn't seem to come up. i think it should. that illustrates another aspect. a lot of this is about performance. when you look beneath, there is little substance. that is a media performance, if you like. >> is it is also -- brexit and trumpism have a lot of

parallels. london is a super diverse city. the country side park. what did they mean despite the party here. >> like you said. the pro brexit people and pro trump people have a lot in common with a lot of the same ideas. very right wing, anti-immigrant, anti-diversity, anti-globalization and anti-forward movement. london is a bit like new york and other places people consider to be these coastal elite places in the u.s. it is different in its make-up. it is diverse, there is

tolerance. people live among each other and get along with each other very, very well. london will get hard hit by brexit. people who are outside of london who kind of dislike londoners. there are a lot of people in the brexit who are more pro trump. there are a lot of similarities. trump acting like he's a king of the world giving the worst and most ignorant advise which has been going about trying to

figure out the brexit thing. >> the last word to you on this, do you think donald trump boosts or hurts? >> it has been surplanted by now the brexit party. i have to say one more thing in defense of donald trump. he was attacked for saying what he said about bette midler. he was right. bette midler made a film called "beaches." there was no tom hanks or invasion, so he was right to call her out for being unpatriotic. >> if there wasn't a martin lewis, we'd have to invent one. we'll be back, coming up, the trump corruption road show. more "am joy" live from london, next. this time, it's his turn.

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>> it is good right. it is exciting when trump comes to down. is anybody protesting out here? >> no. >> the trump family european adventure looked more like a promotional tour. the two do oversee the trump

holdings. according to the irish times, trump originally wanted to meet the irish prime minister, the two wound up meeting at an airport lounge instead. trump insisted his stop in ireland had nothing to do with his business. >> is this trip anything to do with you promoting your golf club? >> no. i really wanted to do this stop in ireland. it was important because of the relationship i have with your people and the prime minister. >> joining me now, the assistant professor from the college of lone t london. thank you for being here. the trump family trip, udderyou had eric trump when asked why are you here say, we are here to

have a good time. taking selfies and the whole family was there. is that unusual? compared to the obamas traveling with their children but their children were children. what do you make of this family vaca? >> there is no association between the family and the government. when trump was elected, he said, look, he's going to have to divest. he had may cursory efforts to appear as he was. the trump boys are used in promotional videos and fundraising media, they are going on fax news campaigning for the policies. it creates serious problems for conflicts of interests where we have to wonder if foreign policy decisions are being made for the best decisions of the country or

in the bottom line for the series of businesses. >> we had donald trump trying to hold an official meeting at his golf club and the government said no, we are not going to hold a commercial for your golf club. still they sent out a thank you. they rented four limos to transport them around at the cost of $1 million. when this same firm rented to the obamas, it was $100,000. the trumps needed four limos at $1 million. it is pretty free spending. >> it is not exactly the art of the deal if they are getting almost ten times the price for a similar service. the irish one is less a problem

because ireland is an ally. what is worry some is how policy is being dictated by businesses. my favorite one is manila. trump's business partner became a special enjoy and represent to the philippines and then trump turns around and praises a leader in the philippines who is killing people. they held celebrations at the trump hotel in d.c. it is a ses pool of conflicts of interest. the word is being used and swayed. that in any other context would be known as corruption and what we should call it in the united states too. >> the tremendous investigative work on donald trump and

corruption of the foundation and his business has a piece out where he talks about a wealthy iraqi sheikh who urges a hard-line approach and styles himself as a future leader of iraq spent 26 nights at the trump hotel and a saudi lobbyist paid for 500 rooms at the trump hotel. t-mobil business who have business before the fcc booking more than 52 nights at the same hotel. you do seem to have a next tuesday where the way to his heart is by swiping a lot of cards at his hotels. >> they can see what we all see is through either flattery or paying him. that's why foreign governments have started to do the same thing. they flatter him with businesses

or spend money there. that is an open question about the killing of jamal and their reaction to that. they bought his yacht and there are tent kels effecting the united states. trump will make decisions that all americans have to live with and pay for and will violate his values because it is good for trump org and his kids and his family and has no part in the american government. >> is i wish we had something in the constitution that could deal with this like an emaluments clause or something enforceable.

>> could you imagine. >> thank you. you are also the host of the new podcast called power corruptions. thank you for your time. coming up, the democratic leadership is still stuck in the mud on impeachment. that's next. next. when cravings come on strong, now you can be stronger. with new nicorette coated ice mint. layered with flavor... it's the first and only coated nicotine lozenge. for an unexpectedly amazing taste... ...that outlasts your craving. new nicorette ice mint. craving relief never tasted so good.

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trump says there was absolutely no tests. that isn't true. one of those was a group called led by donkeys. designed to remind him that his approval rating pails in comparison to still popular president trump. no word yet on that 700-room palace nonability to stay the night. more coming on "am joy" from london. on also available in hybrid all-wheel drive. lease the 2019 ux 200 for $329/month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.

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>> do you worry about the politics right now, impeachment and everything on the table and how that can further divide us. >> with all due respect to your question, i'm not here to talk about impeachment. >> house speaker refused to criticize the president on her visit to france. would that he would return the favor. >> i think she's a disgrace. i don't think she's a talented person. she's a nasty, vindictive

person, i call her nervous nancy. she's a disaster. pelosi is still refusing to let the house begin impeachment democrats. this week, she told senior democrats privately she doesn't want to see him impeached. she wants to see him in prison. how long will her fellow democratic leaders follow? the congressman is a member of the house judiciary committee. thank you for being here. good morning or good afternoon in london. sorry it is earlier for you than it is for me. i want to ask you how much of the caucus is with nancy pelosi. here is the whip count. 60 in support of beginning an impeachment inquiry.

108 who do not report or are undecided. looking at the democrats, 59 are supporting, 110 are awaiting a response when you isolate the democrats alone. are the undecideds truly undecided? >> it is hard to say, joy. it runs the gamut in conversations i've had. folks are trying to approach this really thought fully based on their view of the evidence and the conversation as well. my sense, the numbers they articulated sound right. i suspect there are more members that would take the step forward. some of the reports are a big exaggerated. the caucus is united defending

the rule of law. the difference of opinion like myself who believe the inquiry would about enough. we have a healthy debate much like the country is having like the right step forward there is a need to educate. we are so close to witnessing the destruction. the witnesses who are refusing to show up. the allegations are one we take

seriously. >> is he privately on the other side of her? >> i'm not going to speak for the chairman. i can only speak for myself as an individual member. >> that's fair. >> he's done a masterful job. i have the utmost faith in our chairman. he's done an incredible job. we shouldn't lose the forest for the trees. let's not forget the underlying findings. there will be some discussion of precisely what is in special counsel's report. >> quickly, let's talk about politics. you are in colorado, my former home state. the vast majority of the base of the democratic party wants impeachment. it has gone up.

now 76% say start an impeachment inquiry. they say if the senate were to acquit him, you have at least four states where that senator would have to go up for reelection. is impeachment actually, potentially good politics for the party? >> that's a fair question, joy. i actually think public opinion could shift rapidly. part of the reason why there is a lot number of people in the country who are decided about whether or not impeachment proceedings are the next step is the fog of confusion. because of the release of the report, the misrepresentations of the findings did create a lot

of confuse. why these hearings is scheduled to commence with this week or so important. as more people learn the contents of the report, they will reach the same conclusion i have which is that opening an inquiry is warranted. that is my observation with folks in colorado and sounds like yours as well. >> this is what we call as a hard turn in television. both of us as children of immigrants, african immigrants. you talked about the dreamers. let me play that quickly. >> right now, there are young people all across our country who know no other home by the united states. these kids are dedicated and willing to put in the hard work to earn a college education,

they are 5:0 selling in their careers every day. we cannot allow these young people to continue to live in fear every day of being ripped away from their lives and losing everything that they know? >> what can congress do about that? >> congress can do a lot. the first step is what we did which was passing the hr 6, the dream and promise act of 2019 to protect millions of dreamers who as i said have known no other country but the u.s. like you said, our parents were immigrants. this is an issue i feel very passionate about. i've had an opportunity to meet a lot of young zredreamers who just as american as you and i and they deserve to be treated

with the same dignity and respect. the fact that the republicans continue to get a pass that would really move the ball forward for a lot of americans. they go to what is a legislative graveyard. we should not give them a pass. i don't think we should assume that the senate is imperious. this is gun violence awareness month. shannon watts has led the charge in helping us get hr 8, the background bill. it deserves the vote and hearing. we should make our voices heard in that regard. >> i presume cory gardener will answer that in the senate race. >> i certainly hope so.

and not just him but a variety of other senators. they have the wide support of the american public. i think our legislatures should be responsive to that. >> congressman from my former home state of colorado. thank you. coming up next, my panel will continue with this conversation. don't forget at the top of the next hour, the professor will be here with what could be the house only solution to impeachment. you do not want to miss that. wt applebee's new loaded chicken fajitas. now only $10.99. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don't.

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you can barely feel. youwith washboardg to be tglutes.t bunny i'm not even sure what glutes are but... mine are gonna be shredded. mmhm, that was weird. oh sister it's gonna get way weirder. >> we have a constitutional responsibility here and that's to start this impeachment proceedings. >> we should bin impeachment proceedings. >> this president should be impeached. >> i believe the judiciary commity should begin impeachment inquiries. >> i believe the president deserves to be impeached. >> we need to begin impeachment

proceedings and we need a new commander in chief. >> the democrats in the house might be in conflict about how to hold the president accountable. the 2020 candidates are of one voice and it is loud and clear. i'll start with you, there is a really sharp different here. the 2020 democrats are on the same page with the public, 76% per the latest cnn poll say impeach. why the disconnect between those two groups? >> it is a really good question. i don't understand it. democrats were given a blue wave for a reason. they wanted to make sure this president was a check and balance on this president. what you you are seeing right

now is like a really bizarre, awful tv reality dating game. maybe we should, maybe we shouldn't. maybe we should just make out and see how it goes. 76% of its base is saying keep it going and going. nancy pelosi who i respect. she is a great speaker i think she truly believes it will hurt us in 2020 but there is no evidence of that. you talked about what happened with clinton and what happened, republicans, george w. bush won. he ran on restoring the dignity of the office, bringing back the honor of the white house and it helped him. there was not a big revolt for

republicans going hard on impeachment. there is no evidence in history that shows that this would be a political awful pill for democrats to swallow. the yeah, democrats definitely are dating in the friend zone. they're trying to whoa the trump base. here is jerry nadler. here is him on, congressman nadler, on cnn this week. >> are you on the same age with the speaker, nancy pelosi, on impeachment? >> we're launching an inquiry now, it may come to that.

>> what is this about -- do you have a coherent expla nay why they're saying this is why we gave democrats power? this is what the base is telling the party. why is nancy pelosi seaming to hold her own committee chairs in advance, why? >> the base of the party wants it, and what base of the party wants and the leadership responsibilities of the of the people for congress, most of them a over whming majority like them has said they're for impeachment or against it. on the house, let me just start stop you right there. that is also something that i don't understand. we just had on a congressman

that was a pro impeachment inquiry. in his state of cory gardener, arizona, north carolina, and maine, it seems like the politics would be if the republicans have this opportunity would be to impeach bill clinton and hold it against democrats saying look at how bern is a hypocrite. the politics would seem to be pretty easy. they seem to think that politics would be horrible. >>. here is the thing, the base of the democratic party believes that impeachment is removal. when speaker pelosi and other folks on the hill and the house side talk about educating the public, that is one of the

things that has to be pushed through. impeachment is not removal. i can't remember who said it before, it is basically an indictment of the president. but look, the methodical position and chance of speaker pelosi, damage damage legally the case against the president. we were talking about it earlier this week. it was behind closed doors, he is just doesn't want to see the president impeached, he is wants to see him in friday, he is wants to ensure that once he is in office in 2020 everything is stacked up in a way legally airtight so he can be prosecuted and go to friday for his crimes. which are, at least, obstruction of justice, they are laid out in the mueller report.

look, r i don't disafree with anything you have said, the democrats and speaker pelosi are here trying to hold on to their majority. maybe he is is over learning the lessons of the clinton impeachment. i said from the beginning that impeachment is an inevitability. it is a matter of how long we get there and how long it takes. it is coming sooner rather than later. making the case to the country that this guy is not about the rule of law, he is thumbing his know at the constitution, and that is on top of not honoring the dignity and respect of the office that he holds. >> be that as it may, i want to

play a moment between the different between republicans and democrats. nancy pelosi went to the rhetorical def con one saying he needs to be locked up. >> speaker pelosi now apparently telling senior democrats he is would like to see trump behind bars based on no actual crime. he is want as political opponent locked up in prison. that happens in bah than in in a republics. and by the way, in many ways the usa turned into a country we would no longer recognize. >> while we -- while you think about your response to that, can i pour a little out for irony, god rest your soul, irony, hear is trump's rallies. for what he is has done he is

should be locked up. he is deleted the e-mails. i think he is is pathetic, i think he is should be in jail. >> it is just awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. >> your eulogy for irony? >> there is a different in the way that republicans do their business and democrats do their business. republicans for eight years obstructed o, even though they didn't care if it was wrong or right, they fought, they fought, they fought, and they were rewarded in 2010, in the house, in 2014, in the senate, and they got the presidential white house back in 2016, the problem is that democrats just need to fight. republicans fight all of the time, and here is the

difference. democrats would be on the right side of history. they would be on the right side of history if they did what they needed to do. if they started impeachment inquiries they would have more power. they would have more legal standing. >> well, the rules still aplied but apparently only to the democratic party. thank you for your time. >> after the break there could be, get this, a way to break what we have just talked about, democratic log jam for impe peachment, that is next, stick around. peachment, that is next, stick around that quickly turns liquid to gel. so i feel protected and pretty. always discreet boutique.

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donald trump, as president, delayed, deflected, moved, fired, and did everything he could to obstruct justice. if he were any other person in the united states based on what is documented in that report, he would be carried out in handcuffs. this matters for our democracy not just now but under the next president and the next president and the next president, we have a constitutional responsibility here to start impeachment proceedings. >> welcome back to a.m. joy. the first to call for impeachment remains outspoken on

the subject. he is not impeached. one of the reasons that speaker pelosi and others are weary of impeachment is the believe that a republican controlled senate would acquit trump, but what if the house could do it on their own. that was the subject of a washington post op ed this week. he is the author of "to end a presidency, the power of impeachment." a tone for the times. explain how the house might be able to act if the senate ref e refused to take up and start an impeach me impeachment trial, or to build in an acquittal. >> what the house could do, joy southbound fairly

straightforward and they have done it before. they could have factual conclusio conclusions. nixon completed offenses and it wasn't just like an indictment. an indictment is an accusation referring to someone else for trial. that is what i proposed it should do. now in the process of the hearings the house might educate the public and mitch mcconnell might give in and the whole thing might go in a direction that nancy pelosi quite rightly say social security not very likely. but who is afraid of the big bad turtle here? in the case of john adams, for

example, there was a big controversy over the fact that he extradited an american citizen to britain. there is a lot of debate in the house. there was a lot of impeachment, maybe in part because they didn't think the senate would convict. but they were ready to debate whether or not the house could condemn him. find that he violated the of the verdict in that debate the winning side was yes the house has this authority. now in that case by a vote of 64-30 or something, they decided that amends did not deserve to be sentured on condemned. but my sense is that after a

full hearing where the president and his lawyers would be invited to make the a presentation, of course they would say no thanks, but they would have a full opportunity and it would be a kind of trial, it is only the senate that has the power to try impeachments, but you don't have to be afraid of what the senate would do. if it is in the president's hip pocket. you can see we find that the president created high crimes and misdemeanors. >> that is fascinating. you're saying that the house could in and of itself have, would it be the judiciary committee that would hold the hearings that could come to the vote and a conclusion, but number one would subpoena power apply to that house trial? >> absolutely, the power to

issue subpoenas and make people like don mcgahn, hope hicks, and all of the others testify, it would be super charged by the fact that this is an impeachment inqui inquiry. we need here, it is at it's absolute apex when it looks to the possibility of impeaching a sitting officer or president. rule 6e, which we heard so much about, having an exception. so the books would be opened, there would be a transparent public hearing, the public could be finally educated. over 1,000 federal prosecutors say that the mueller report shows criminal obstruction of

justice. it would be the best way to go. the house would be much more than like a grand jury concerning an indictment. the defendant doesn't get to be represented. when the house considered impeachment possibilities against rich nixon, he was invited to appear. i would imagine that we could see the trump lawyers making an argument against finding the president guilty of taking advantage of a foreign power and doing other things. the kind of thing this other district of new york called him an unindicted con-conspirator. the house, after all, is an independent body.

it is the people's house, and they should stand up to their duty under the constitution. >> and there is just a parade of witnesses that one could just imagine calling. he is could have called the lawyers that they used to negotiation that deal. the call workforce robert kelner who thor attorney for michael flynn who was going to cooperate with the mueller probe. >> we have information that implicates the president, and we have a national security issue, maybe a national security issue, maybe, i don't know.

so, you know, we need some kind of heads up. for the sake of protecting everyone that we can. >> what you had here was he was really angry that the michael flynn team would no locker share information about the team, and they're dangling something. could someone like doud be called before an inquiry like that in the house? >> absolutely. >> i thought if he had not passed away, that might have been tony soprano. there is no defense. lots of normal privilege social security don't apply anyway when they're engaged in an inquiry of the highest significance.

it was called a grand inquest. i respect her as a woman, a politician, a leader, i think he is makes the constitution wrong he here. he is is assuming that launching the investigation, if he is not investigated for impeachment offenses, but he is is assuming that launching the inquiry puts you on a collision course with the stone wall represented by mcconnell and the gop in the senate, it doesn't, if the senate continues to shirk their duty, they can say that after a full and fair hearing we find that donald trump has committed the following offenses, high

crimes and misdemeanors. it is possible to acquit him. they should decide before they have the inquiry, but the likelihood is he would be convicted. his forehead would be marked with the stamp of i. i think it is a silly prospect to say that he would be strengthenned. he would claim vindication. he could always claim vindication, that is his style, but the american people are not as stupid as he seems to think. they are not. they need to be educated by an impeachment inquiry that could begun and ended. it is a mistake to think the senate is an indispensable part of that process. >> let me ask you a question, it is the one that democrats ask

the most about what you're just said. they will say what is the point of impeaching donald trump if he is not actually removed. if he is not removed from office what is the point? >> the point is to do your constitutional duty, to set the record straight for history, to mark him with that scarlet i. he would then probably be rej t rejected by the american people in an election. there have be a number of centuries. no twhaun has been the suggest of centuries has been reelected to the presidency. it seems to me to be a mistake to assume that a solemn conclusion would not make a

difference. the senate needs to stand up and do their duty, and as you pointed out earlier there are states like colorado, arizona, maine, and north carolina. i think they would be hard pressed to say that what would be revealed is all just fine. a president that pays attention to his bottom line and not the bottom line of american families. he violates the federal election laws to get elected. who invited help from a hostile foreign power, that is not fine, and it is definitely not fine for the house of representatives to say never mind, we have other work to do.

they can do that while they hospital this president to account. that is what they owe to the constitution of the united states and the american people. >> a very novel idea that they could do that. thank you for your time. >> thank you, joy. >> thank you so much. coming up a 2020 contender just listening to the conversation i had with the professor and we will hear what he has to say about it, next. just stopping that irritation... that burn that i get is really life changing.

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most people think that impeach means you're out of office. it is an indictment. so when you're impeaching somebody, you want to make sure you have the strongest possible indictment, it is not the means to the end that people think. all you do, impeach, bye bye birdie. >> the impeachment fight is threatening to tear apart the democratic caucus. mention those ta among those taking quite a different approach is some of the 2020 presidential candidates. joining me now is democratic

congressman and presidential candidate seth moulte. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> there is a little bit of delay, i'm overseas. you, can to be blunt, were a democrat that was opposed to speaker pelosi taking on a second term as speaker. i want to play some of the criticism that you had of her at that time. >> since 2008 we have 30 fewer seats than we did when he is took over. it really has not done well. when you look at some of the amazing talented leaders we have in the caucus, including some incredible women like martha fudge, i hope he is will run, you will see what it means for the american people. >> you got a lout of criticism,

mostly from women, do you now wish that very criticism had been more on something like what we're dealing with now. that the current leadership is so cautious and the base of the party is very ramped up to have dramatic change and to really reign in this president. >> this was never about nancy pelosi, it was about the top three leaders in the country that have been in the house for a combined total of 100 years. i think it is time for a new generation of new ideas, the most diverse and historic class, and as a result of having that democratic debate in the house, we got the voting rights sub committee. the climate change committee, an an agreement on term limits.

it gave pelosi the vote he she needed to be speaker. i think it is important to say, joy, that pelosi did a fantastic job standing up to trump, i think he is deserves a lshe des credit for her leadership. although he is makes a good political argument for why the politics may be difficult, what about doing the right thing by the constitution nap is our d-- our duty. the constitution is very clear here that we should be having this debate in the house. >> i think we could debate whether or not he is had the votes, my whip count looking at the politics for her were pretty strong going in -- >> no no, he is didn't have the votes, he she only one by five,

is didn't have the votes, but the point is that when we're talking about right now is s that we have a constitutional due to to have the debate, i voted for impeachment long before any of the other candidates came out in favor of it. in december of 2017 i voted with 58 other house democrats to move forward on this debate. in the past couple weeks i had more and more colleagues coming to our side and joining this position, we feel it is just simply the right thing to do. >> it still, as you said it was 58 people that mauved for impeachment, why so few? he is speaks for more members of the caucus than you do. why is it still such a small

relative number of democrats that agree with yourself and most of the contenders? >> it is a good question. i think there is political concern about the fallout here. i look at it this way. there is the political issue, the politics of whether or not it makes sense, and the legal constitutional issue. for me the constitution always comes first and i think it is very clear, it was clear back in 2017 that the president is violating the law with the mueller report coming out. and there are more members of the caucus reading the report and we think about this from a constitutional perspective and they're changing their positions. part of the reason it is taking some time is it is hard, but a lot of people are moving in the other direction, they say that he or he is was for impeachment before and now is against. at the time, it is shifting in our direction and i do believe

that eventually we'll get to a point where we'll probably vote that way as a caucus. >> can you see the scenario that they put forward where the house not only does an impeachment inquir inquiry, but holds the trial and says senate do what you do, but they're going to impeach and have a finding, if it goes that way, that he committed high crimes. >> i think this that is right, it is not a novel idea. that is what myself and some other folks in the minority here have been advocating for. when the debate started over richard nixon, they were not on the side of debate either, but more evidence was brought out, the case was made, and indeed

public opinion shifted. not only is this the right thing to do on constitutional grounds, but he thinks the politics are on the side of impeachment as well. this is the place where i changed my opinion. before i said the politics are bad but the constitutional duty is the right thing to do, now i think the politics are shifting in favor of this as well. we just need to see the facts. >> yeah, i want to make with quick turn here, you're running as one of -- two i believe, veterans, running for the united states presidency. i want to play you some of the current president talking on good morning britain about his nonexperience with vietnam. >> you were unable to serve, do you wish you were able to serve? >> i was never a fan of that

war. i will be honest with you. i thought it was a terrible war, i thought it was very far away, you're talking about vietnam and at that time nobody ever heard of the country. it's not like fights nazi germany or hitler. >> as a veteran yourself what do you make of that answer? >> what the president is saying is that he thought it was okay for another american to go in his place. when he didn't show up, when he lied about his feet, it wasn't like there was just an empty seat in vietnam with his name on it. no. there is a great american hero that went in his place. i didn't agree with the iraq war, i was very outspoken about it, but i never wanted someone to go in my place, and that's why i went back for a total of four tours.

a lot of other veterans have done the same thing. there is a lot that went with me to iraq even though we disagreed with the war but we knew we could have a bigger impact than by being back home complaining about it and we didn't want anyone to go in our place. >> all right, congressman, are you going to make the debate stage in miami? >> i'm not going to make the fi first debate, i don't think so, i have a seven month old daughter at home so it wasn't an option to get in earlier. the election will not be decided by the dnc debates but it will be decided by the american people so that is where i'm focusing my energy. seth moulten, one of three veterans running for president of the united states. coming up, prime minister teresa may is gone, but brexit is still here. great, we'll talk about it next. .

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trump could not help but try to get involved in brexit this week and it went about how you would expect. stay with us. bout how you would expect stay with us

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when donald trump says there are parts of london that are no-go areas, he is portraying a stupifying ignorance -- >> he has been a friend of mine, he has been very nice, i have a good relationship with him. >> donald trump didn't get the chance to meet with his supposed

friend boris johnson while in the u.k. johnson is currently a top contender to replace teresa may, but he declined to meet with trump, opting, instead, for a brief phone call, but he did hand be n hang with nigel ferrage. where is the love? it appears to be one way. >> it does seem to be a one-way love salespersonly when you have someone calling you stupifyingly ignorant, but both of them are going in the same direction as far as populism, far right politics, and just the general trend of american government under donald trump, all of that puts them not in lock step but at least in the same direction.

the problem is that boris johnson really does think that donald trump is stupid because boris johnson is really very smart, he is a typical british right wing intellectual. trump is basically a thug from manhattan. >> i wonder how -- let me tell you really quickly. the other person on the about it is the discussion that he got with trump, take a listen. >> he obviously believes in brexit. thinks it is the right thing for the country to do and he is concerned that it is taking a long time, he is very interested who the next leader is. >> how important to, enmeshed in the movement is donald trump, is

he a figure they considering to be a fellow compatriot. >> he is very helpful to him, and they really are on the same page, a lot of things, a lot of the rest of the far right in europe has been a little uncomfortable with trump and they're uncomfortable with each other farage wants nothing to do with marine lepen. and they're all a little afraid of the new power in there. and they have opened a way fromming white nationalism that they all subscribe to. >> let me come to you on this here, that is an awkward place

for the british party to be, right? teresa may is maybe not the most popular, but if there is, so i wonder where are the british conservatives now that they are biting at their heels. nigel farage is more likely to drag it toward brexit, and i think the conservative party is most worried about the socialist leader of the britain's opposition. for fear if they have an election that the labor party, it could be elected, and this is one of the reasons another

member of the conservative party, likely to see a prime minister. the parliament made clear they don't want brexit in the hardest possible form. look, in the end, brexit wasn't a decision, it was a division, and we are seeing those divisions plaid out and we may be heading for the final chapter. how will that be written? that is a question that i can't answer. one of the concerns that have been raised by those in the left is what trump wants is a bilateral deal in which he, the u.s. multinationals in the drugs or insurance world can encroach and start to carve up the national health services. is that a threat that could really happen?

>> donald trump wrote back on it but he said that the national health service would be part of the negotiations, look, there are many people who criticize the national health service here in the uk, but everybody at the same time is extremely proud of it. one of the achievements is drug prices. if there was a negotiation with u.s. pharmaceuticals that the expectation and the demand would be that prices would have to go up. that is a simplistic way to talk about it, but it illustrated that negotiations with the u.s. after a brexit will not be as simple as president trump and other probrexit politicians in the u.k. like to suggest. i mean that isn't to say that you -- the politics is so different and so difficult to predict these days, i'm not con

vicinitied that if it happened quickly there would not be a real push on both sides to get negotiations done. there are lots of hurdles, and tryst tin d-- some would say there are parties that are in the middle and they still have a conservative party that wants to style itself in the old form. it is a conservative party that they, too, have a far right thing knocking at their door, for how long do you think britain can resist that side and can europe resist it? >> well, first of all, it is a complete mess. we're seeing the democratic process they have it with brexit in the last three years.

when we talk about a new prime minister, we're not talking about a choice that will be made by 48 million voters. we're talking about a choice my by 45,000 members. if there was an election right now maybe jeremy corbin would win, but i can tell you who would lose, it would be the torreys. that is the solution when you have three years of a brexit policy. britain is falling apart and they think if america is going to give them a good trade deal they're nuts. trump is like a hyena waiting to gobble them up when they leave

the party. >> what happened to this party that had such dominance in british politics for so long. what happened to them. >> i think you can exaggerate the slide of the two main parties, the labor party and the conservetive party based on recent elections. in terms of the party one objective is in mind and that is to become prime minister itself. he is trying to sit in the middle. i would say one thing. in terms of britain in crisis, i wonder if you can look back to the 1907s and ultimately recover from that and see some kind of

positivity there, you can't just say this is a crisis that is an existential crisis for the u.k. >> we will see, thank you both very much. we appreciate your time. coming up, we will tell you why the saidies are going to jerries next.

there was something, if there was something nefarious maybe it would have come up. it was a total waste of time. i didn't guest past saying show up here at 4:00. i showed up at 4:00. >> it is hard to do hypotheticals, but we were not given anything salacious. >> white house senior advisor and presidential/professional son-in-law jared kushner sat down with axios this week. joining me now is vicky ward, an

investigative journalist. i want your reaction to that. thank you for being here to answer the question of whether or not it would be a bad thing to take further assistance from a foreign power should it be offered be offered again. what do you make of that? >> i think it just proves the theory of my book, "kushner, inc." which is really discreted how jared kushner and ivanka trump don't believe in rule, including the law. they disdain the rules and think they're for other people, much poorer people. in that interview with axios is when he won't answer the question about whether kushner company's dealing with deutsche bank should be investigated for money laundering and he bumped the question and talked about how it was ridiculous quote/unquote successful people like him presumably should be

prohibited from going into government because of their business interests. the irony about that is that very successful people joined the trump i can think of rex tillerson, the sikecretary of state, unlik jared kushner, who divested himself of everything. he did abide by the rules and the person who pushed him out of the trump administration was jared kushner. >> yeah, it's an interesting thing. it's not clear, his role seems to be be he's the every adviser. one of the things jared kushner has been named as the adviser on is supposedly create a middle east deal, peace between the palestinians and israelis. i want to play you a bite from the same axios interview where he seemed to be talking about the investment potential of the potential palestinian state but not actually talking to any palestinians. take a listen.

>> do you believe the palestinians are capable of governing them sselves without israeli interference? >> i think that's a very good question. i think that's one we will have to see. the hope is over time they can become capable of governing. >> they being the palestinians. >> i think in order for the area to be investable and investors to come in and invest in different industry and infrastructure to create jobs you can use a fair judicial system with freedom of press, freedom for expression, and religion. >> do they have freedom from government experience? >> i think it's a high bar. what is the way you have both people live in peace.

>> kushner, ink, my book is about the kushners, the trumps and middle east and their commercial interests. this is called "the peace plan." it should really be kafcalled jd kushner and donald trump's big gift of a lifetime be to be bibi netanyahu. you just can't get away from the fact bibi netanyahu is a very, very old and very close friend of the kushner family. he famously stayed in jared kushner's bedroom when jared was a child. so, of course, the palestinians feel that this is totally gridlocked against them and the

idea jared kushner could have been talking to palestinians on the street. my sources laughed when they hear it. they're like the only street jared kushner has been talking is the equivalent of park rio in riyadh. >> another thing that stood out a lot in this interview is the weird reaction when she's asked about a relationship in regard to the murder to jamal khashoggi. >> how many conversations have you had with mohammad bin salman about the murder of jamal khashoggi? >> the discussions i have with world leaders, i keep those discussions to myself. the people that need to know about them in our government, they know about our discussions.

>> so saudi arabia is crucial for delivering this great gift for bibi netanyahu. he set up a deal with mohammad bin salman that mohammad bin salman will pay for it essentially. so with jared kushner money matters more than anything else, which is why he looked so horrified and disdainful that jonas and swan were asking him this question, telling him he wasn't going to divulge top-secret conversations. the interesting thing is when rex tillerson was seblcretary o state, he found jared kushner wouldn't divulge top-secret conversation within mohammad bin

salman very oppressive figure who indeed carried out the murder of jamal khashoggi. rex tillerson couldn't find out with jared kushner and mohammad bin salman were discussing on whatsapp and he was the secretary of state. so i don't know who jared kushner thinks should be privy to his conversations but it sounds like he didn't think anyone should be. and that is really bad for our national security. >> oh, we really appreciate you being here today. thank you for your time. being here today thank you for your time.

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that is our show for today. "a.m. joy" will be back tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern. alex witt is next. i have to shout out my macaroni bracelet, a lot of folks on twitter have been asking about my macaroni bracelet. can i tell you quick? >> yeah. >> this i got from my adorable nephew keyon, he made me this adorable macaroni bracelet so i want to shout out to him and rashan and jeh and ramon, all of our little cousins and nephews. >> they love hearing that. that is so cool. you took off and left me here and went to london. girl, you got some explaining to do when you go home. >> i will bring you back tear and something from