with x1 voice control. and have professional monitoring backing you up with xfinity home. demo at an xfinity store, call or go online today. that's it for me. it's time for "up with david gura. this is "up with david gura." while joe biden is at the top of the pack, and data for who is in the hunt for second place is fascinating. >> i like joe biden. i've liked him for a long time. we need to win. president trump celebrating his 11th-hour deal to avoid the

implementation of new tariffs. most of that deal came together months in advance. >> i'm dealing with mexico right now. they need us. we don't need them. they need us. i know what to do with the mexicans, i'm asking them for everything. and pride and defiance after an nbc news report shows that embassies have not been allowed to raise the flag for pride month, diplomatic outposts are doing it anyway. >> this is part of the trump administration's attack on the best traditions of the united states of america. not just tolerance, not just respect, but embracing our differences. >> it's sunday, june 9th, and the name-calling continues. >> trump unveiled a new nickname for nancy pelosi. >> i call her nervous nancy. something about me having control of the nuclear arsenal makes her skiddish. i don't know what it is. >> up with me this morning. scott is a white collar criminal

defense attorney. and christina greer, associate professor at university. and maria hinojosa and david joll jolley an msnbc contributor. the cnn/iowa poll, democratic debate, seven days away, and it gives us new perspective on the race for the party's nomination. joe biden, leading the field in the hawk eye state. 24% of iowans say he's their pick. in second place, is bernie sanders with 16%. this is where things start to get interesting. he's in a virtual tie with elizabeth warren. and pete buttigieg with 15% and 14% respectively. kamla harris, 7% of likely caucusgoers say they would go with her. the field is win knowing.

no other candidate cracks double digits. not 1 of 600 respondents say they support bill de blasio or mayor wayne. what is the largest political gathering of in so far? cedar rapids for the democratic party's hall of fame theater. missing is joe biden, who is heading to tuesday of this week. president trump will be in the state then. how much does polling matter? what does the data tell you? >> we're six months out. this is a snapshot in time. it's not just positive for the race. the three stories coming out are around elizabeth warren, amy klobuchar and beto o'rourke. when biden got in, his numbers

were deep and wide. he had a 10-point to 15-point lead. this is showing that elizabeth warren, the progressive alternative, continues to chip away at that. if i'm amy klobuchar, i'm worried. that's a neighbor. that's similar to her constituency in the senate. and beto o'rourke is in the shadow of mayor bepete. beto is last year. and mayor pete is alternative. how do you break into a field that's so diverse? biden has reasons to worry. they're sheltering him a little. he won't be there among the candidates. you look at the polling and how

caucuses work. >> a primary is a private group. the iowa caucus is different. can you get people to make the argument for you. it depends on the messaging and the types of vehicles in those rooms. i agree, we're far out. it will be a ground game in the most literal sense. we'll see what camera harris does. you don't always have to win iowa. bill clinton in 1992 didn't do well in iowa. and didn't win new hampshire. because he did better than expected, he became a topic of conversation. it will be a series of

conversations about expectation. >> if i'm a presidential candidate and i win iowa, i don't turn it down. >> the polling is interesting. you have, who is your first choice, second choice, third choice? all kinds of things can happen. having run a few myself. it gets tough. the interesting thing out of this poll, is mayor pete. he came out of nowhere. his methodology and his approach and his discussion about we need to figure out why donald trump voted, as opposed to why pmp is the president, is resonating. he's the one to watch.

kamla harris, you get to the election in california, her strategy has to be to go into california strong. she has endorsements from around the state. if she runs hard into california, she comes in second, she is good to go and can run away with it. so much is name recognition. >> you have a twitter feed of women and women of color. if bill de blasio can stand up there and be, yes, we can, too. i introduced cory booker on friday. in the picture from the des moines register, he's one they

put. for him, he continues to say, if you pacompare to obama, i'm doi great. he's preaching about a lot of love. if i was -- if i was going to be castro, i would be angry. the number one issue that this president is targeting and attacking. to g in the low numbers, it's probably upsetting to him. on the other hand, i know what you're about to say. >> we just met and you're reading my mind.

you're saying, you need to get that fire in you if you want that message out. it can't be that you're nice. >> that's a good point, though. i was going to say, they have nowhere to go. they have no space. they're not resonating. there's no space for them. the other candidates are connecting better with the people who will be voting. they can't breathe. among those who list biden as their first choice, 29% said they are enthusiastic about their choice. that number is higher among other candidates.

>> joe biden's coalition of voters are maybe looking for the moderate, frankly, white man in the democratic party. below him, you have three or four of the progressive heartbeat candidates. a lot of people are considering joe biden because they think he can beat donald trump. they are keeping biden tight. eight or ten years ago, he's run for president, he's been unable to be the nominee of the democratic party. keeping it tight for joe biden may not last through the nomination. there will be five tickets and biden will have. they're trying to get him one of those.

the skillset is the same but it's not as applicable. >> when joe biden ran with barack obama. there's a difference between 65 and 76. you do see there's a difference in that time. there's that. and bernie and hillary and their fight in 2016 was this division between democrats and progressive democrats. not every democrat is progressive. this is important. and biden has a hillary clinton problem. he's been a public servant for so long. he's been an elected official for so long. there's votes he made that no longer keep up with the games. there's things he said that no longer hold true and resonate with democratic voters.

in the '80s i did some thing and i did some things in the '90s. coming up, another word that's worrying the president. and why the officials say the last minute deal that the president is celebrating is policies that mexico agreed to months ago. ago

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welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. president threatened to raise tariffs on mexico tomorrow. mexico has agreed to deploy its new national guard, agree efforts to tackle human trafficking operations. and there's some migrants that will wait in mexico. one thing the white house could not get mexico to do was sign a safe third country treaty. yesterday, president trump was excited about the deal. we're learning from "the new york times", it was not all that new. let me read the piece from "the new york times." the deal to avert tariffs that

president trump announced with fanfare on friday, largely consist of actions that mexico had promised to take in prime discussions with the u.s. over the past several months. that's according to officials from several countries familiar with the negotiations. not much is being made with the policy. this is a thin two-page document. that's what i want to talk to you about. what's been agreed to here and what is it going to do to solve the problem on the mexican border? >> considering i did an interview with the former homeland secretary. and it got a little testy. here's the thing. hards reof what mexico agrees to. that's a second conversation.

i wish i was seeing that. but jay johnson, he confirmed that no matter what you do, the pushback from central america, the fact that people are living in these insecure moments. people are like, hey, i think i will listen to u.s. policy and decide if i will travel through mexico. it's not like that. no matter what mexico agrees to, it doesn't deal with the central issue. unless you're dealing with central america and all of the trauma they're going through, and the united states has had its happeneds there for over 100 years, none of this will change. it took a threat of the rising

price of avocados. >> maria makes a specific point. there's push factors from central america and pull factors that are important. we saw this with george bush when he was thinking about immigration the last two years. he realized, the pull factors are important. his friends and people in his party want cheap, if not free labor. they want to make sure they don't have to deal with human rights violations. trump says, i am getting everything from mexico. they need what is happening, unfortunately, in a global sort of economic and human rights version. we are doing things in this crisis. >> i think you're right about the economic violence the reality is this. why doesn't the u.s. invest more

in the central american countries? they just stopped doing that. >> as if that was going to be a means in regards to border security, which has the opposite effect. >> when you look at this, there's so much fuzziness that the president wanted. he wanted illegal immigration to stop. there is no distilled -- >> thank you for saying crazy. >> let's talk politics and policy. the politics of this, this is a scam, a sham, a ruse. donald trump knew what he was doing. he knew we would get to this moment. he created a narrative he could benefit from politically. the united states has a moral obligation to give those seeking asylum in the united states.

it's a moral calling. the president, for four or five years now, supported by most of the republican party has this as an issue. it's a humanitarian issue. take donald trump out of the conversation. consider we have 10,000 children last month approaching the u.s. border. we have a moral obligation to embrace those children, to support them and to provide them the resources and consideration that they are due. >> but i have to stop you right there. you're saying a question about moral issues and we know what just happened. this president has taken away a ball, a soccer ball, these are concentration camps. the moral argument, i don't know

how -- >> i'm not defending. listen. >> i know you're not. as a matter of law, we have to provide them an opportunity for asylum. and to get them to mexico and to house them there. >> here's the problem. you have republicans who want to get re-elected and they're afraid of their primaries. and they realize that the children that are being assaulted and worse, they don't see them as humans. what are we going to do about this crisis. there's women who are mothers and grandmothers who said, they don't want their children raped and killed at the border, they shouldn't come. how are we having this moral and humanitarian conversations? when you have americans who don't see people from central america as human beings.

>> 24 immigrants have died in i.c.e. custody. >> that we know of. >> there is a sense buried keep in "the washington post" piece that there are mexicans who are becoming tired of or acting out against migrants who are coming through mexico. what is your sense? >> as a proud mexican, is mexico has immigrants. having been at the border, it broke my heart that central americans have to wait in mexico before they can come into the united states. they're saying, they're insulting us, treating us badly. you have mexicans treating other

immigrants badly because mexicans are being treated badly here. where does it stop? what's happening with the administration, is the inhumanity is just rippling across the world. mexico has a lot to do. they need to be dealing with that publicly. >> the policy ooilitself, thereo chance this will work, either. it's up to the mexican government or the boaguards, wh have you. the president didn't think they were acting fast enough. there's no love lost between the president of the united states and the mexican president. they're being forced together on

this issue. will it work? >> a lesson in patience. up next, the pushback from the president and the democrats. we get ready for a big week of oversight hearings. we'll walk you through the calendar here. ough the calendar here. honey have you seen my glasses? i've always had a knack for finding things... colon cancer, to be exact. and i find it noninvasively... no need for time off or special prep. it all starts here... you collect your sample, and cologuard uses the dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers. you can always count on me to know where to look. oh, i found them! i can do this test now! ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. covered by medicare and most major insurers.

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the trump administration planned to unveil a new resolution this week that would give them the ability to turn to the courts and force subpoenas against bill barr and don mcgahn. expected to be a vote on that on tuesday. here's chuck todd talking about holding the attorney general accountable for his actions. >> no one is above the law. if people are not going to comply -- >> how does this change bill barr's life? how does this change bill barr's behavior? >> i hope that mr. bill barr is the attorney general for the united states of america, would understand he has a responsibility to work with the branches of government. this is one government we have. i'm open to fining these individuals and making sure we pursue all of the penalties we have at our disposal. it is another way the democrats will try to get access to the

mueller report and the president's tax returns. the stone wawalling responsibilities. the white house looks to slow things by losing it in the house of representatives. hope hicks, not to comply with the house judiciary committee southbound. wilbur ross has failed to comply with a subpoena on documents to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census. the chairman of the house rules committee says, quote, we will not allow this president and his administration to turn a blind eye to the rule of law. david jolley, i'm going to start with you. talk to me about the fact that maybe this will lead somewhere. and you see the courts taking on more prominence. you have the house ways and means committee saying, i'm

going to hold this. where do they stand? >> i think they continue to fight this on the president's field. i'm not sure it will work. you believe in nancy pelosi, you believe she will take this. let the investigations play out. there's another constituent saying why do we give this president license. let's call it labor day. we're going to have an impeachment in the judiciary committee by labor day. if you want to cooperate in our proceedings, we invite you to testify. you can offer democrtestimony tu believe is exculpatory. we will move on on labor day.

it allows for finality to it. it clears the debt for the presidential candidates for the next 12 months, to talk about immigration and taxes. one thing i agree about, the nation is tired of this investigation. we've had two years of this. when i hear democrats say, i'm willing to go another year, i don't know. republicans didn't do any oversight. now, they're doing oversight. we're not a willing prisoner of the investigation. we're obligated to do it. you can't walk away from it. there's not going to be 25 candidates. >> the democrats on the house side have to figure out, what are the two options you have? a lot of people say, what about the republicans?

i have given up on them after two years. >> second time i agree. >> the democrats won the record. they have the keys to the car. they will not be as efficient as investigators as bob mueller. congress might try to create a political narrative, but they're not going to uncover a smoking gun. >> we don't know what the investigation would yield. >> we haven't seen the full report. this is necessary. and what donald trump has really exposed is how fragile our democracy is. republicans have always said, it's not just about donald trump. his party has shown they are willing to excuse the will of law, to support the executive,

and not the american people and not uphold the constitution. where americans are in a tight bind, we've seen this president as a charlatan and corrupt individual, to see he's wiggling out of situations. his republican colleagues just throw up their hands. and democrats are scrambling. democrats have been inundated with so much every day that comes from this man. democr democrats, if they're going to be successful, you have to pick two or three majored eitems. right now, the american public, the democratic voters are feeling overwhelmed by so much.

and following the narrative of donald trump. >> do we walk away? >> we don't walk away. we have to have a different strategy. >> you're impeaching or live by the investigations and hopefully the courts will relax there. people say we need the full report. the one person that can move the needle tonight, is nancy pelosi. if she says i'm going to order the nation at primetime, 9:00 p.m., every network would cover it but fox news. and she would make the case that the mcgahn article would be obstruction of justice. >> it's just their jobs. just saying. >> just their jobs. >> do your job. >> i would be remiss, president trump should be a viewer of this show. good morning. the show is called "up." still ahead. politics and policy, candidates

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well, this is "up." i'm david gura. three weeks before the first presidential debate. and they are trying to distinguish themselves from each other with policy. castro, combatting racial bias

in policing. beto o'rourke unveiling a plan with voting rights, with a goal of getting a record number of voters to the polls by 2024. and kristirsten gillibrand help lgbtq americans. cory booker says if he were president, he would give a credit to americans who spent 30% of annual income on rent. that would benefit 57 million men and women. i want to start with the plans. senator booker's plan is focusing on city where it's hard to build affordable housing. the focus that the three senators had an affordable housing. maria? >> i think for americans, it's one of the central issues. i give thanks to i own my apartment in new york city.

we were able to pull it together and make it a priority. but for a lot of people in this country, this is a huge issue. the specificity is important. christina and i were talking about mayor booker. he leaves stanford and goes into the projects in newark. he's criticized by his neighbor like, what are you doing? and he was living there for a decade and learning to survive there. it's interest ining. it helps in terms of the policy. but doing chris tetinchristina' very 1990s. i'm going to be with the people. and it's like, that's very 1990s. it doesn't really play here or not. again, he's whole thing is, i see you, i love you. all about love.

that's not necessarily 1990s. it is 1990s. i still have problems that need solutions. i think about the plans, though. what does the world look like if we implemented all of the plans. very expensive. does the house and senate pass it? is it real? where is the money coming from? you look at the section, it's where the money is coming from. the reality is, we're a long way from implementation. but does the average voter vote on a candidate because of the plans? i don't think so. >> congress will have to figure out the plans. the transportation grants. that's narrow, as well. how important are these plans in terms of the viability? >> you know, you think about my

favorite president, lbj, how he was able -- >> your favorite president? >> my favorite president. i will fight to the death to support that. >> it is. >> civil rights act, voting rights act, immigration act. we all have imperfect candidates. no one is everything. but we need to get the housing act. we see how he is unable to coalesce competing interests to substantive policy. we need that. we talk about scarce resources. we can't seem to find money for roads and infrastructure. but if we want to go to iran, we can get money in 20 minutes. >> that's different. >> it is and it isn't. we're talking about wars. we're talking about wars we're creating. and what's really important, this goes back to what is

insidious about the president. all of this costs money. we invest in what we want to see. we pay for that. we have donald trump and his ilk and members of his party who refuse to pay taxes, they are saying i don't have to pay for the things we're benefitting from. that's a gross distortion of what america should be. >> we have to change our priorities. >> david jolly, there was so much talk about policy being paramount on this campaign. help us understand. the message from the committee that is as important and pivotal as climate change. >> sometimes our party is not going to be specific with policy.

mayor pete has never had to cast a vote. joe biden had to cast a vote. this is an area where there's true contrast between the parties and the candidates. do you try to close the economic inequality gap by providing support and subsidies at the lower end? or do you grow the economy for all sectors? i'm thrilled we're having the conversation, for viewers and voters, look for policy with the candidates. there's candidates cthat can't find a policy on their website. how kept the diplomats are celebrating pride. they're not given permission to fly rainbow flags, days after president trump sent a tweet celebrating pride. ♪

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2. unlimited data. use as much as you want, when you want. 3. no surprises on your bill. taxes and fees included. still think you have a better deal? bring in your discount, and we'll match it. that's right. t-mobile will match your discount. ♪ this is "up." i'm david gura. june 28th marks a half century from the stonewall riots. this week, new york's commissioner officially apologized what happened in 1969. in a tweet, president trump called attention to pride month, calling for solidarity of the lgbtq community. you have to look at that in contrast with the administration's policies.

earlier this month, the ban of transgender people in the military went into effect. and nbc news has learned that the administration has denied the embassies to fly pride flags in israel, because the u.s. ambassador to that country is responsible for the trump administration's push to end the criminalization of home moe sexuality. i want to look at that if we can. just about a month ago. senator bernie sanders, who's running for president, weighed in on this. he called the president a homephobe because of a new policy. are you in agreement with that? is that a fair characterization? >> i think what's clear is that this president's tweet that acknowledged pride month earlier this month was a hallow gesture and actions over the last two years speak a lot louder than a

single tweet. and from day one of this administration, donald trump and mike pence have targeted the right's indignity of lgbtq people. they have sought to ban transgender people from our nation's military. they've reskinnedcinded guidanc against lgbtq patients. actions speak a lot louder than words for this president and i think his actions over the last two years have been anti-lgbtq from day one. >> the effort here to criminalize homosexuality and i remember when that was first reported by nbc news back in february, the president was asked about it and he seemed unaware that that was even taking place. so what's your response to those who hold that up, hold the tweet up about pride month and say he's getting an unfair shake?

>> this president has tried this before. in 2016 he held up an upside down rainbow flag and proclaimed he would be a friend of the lgbtq community. our community didn't believe him now. we certainly believe him even less today. all we have to point to are the actions of this administration that have put lgbtq people, particularly the most vulnerable in our community, transgender people, transgender people of color, at risk because this administration's actions, they're rescinding of protections, they undermine the ability of lgbtq people to live and thrive in this community. and the actions they've taken to ban the rainbow flag, this is a time when the united states should be leading the world on human rights and we're shirking that responsibility. and i don't expect anything less from a president who have shown

a clear affinity for athoroughtarian regimes. >> you look at the ban on transgender members of the military, for instance, it was something that caught the defense secretary by surprise. so this is kind of part and parcel of the way policies are implemented. people have to catch up and figure out what exactly the policy is. >> keep in mind when the president first tweeted about that, you know, the people in his own administration were saying, we don't respond to tweets. so either you write it on paper and make it official. but a tweet is not a policy position and i'm actually not going to subscribe to that. we cannot listen to one tweet that says, happy pride month, happy black history month, whatever it may be, and look at the litany of policies that are destroying the lives of millions of families. the work that the hrc is doing,

fierce is doing, there are so many organizations on the ground who are trying to protect the lgbtq community in america and abod abroad. keep in mind these policies are engaging our ambassador when they are on foreign soil. we saw the president clearly not understand how to respect the american ideals when he's away. but we have people who are dedicating their lives to doing that and they don't feel protected by their own president. by saying nothing about black trans women being murdered, suicide rates are on the rise because they're feeling this is the president of the united states who is saying, i don't care about you and neither does my party. >> listen, the star of "pose"

just posted on june 7th, a black lati latino trans woman was found dead in her cell. this is new york city, the most trans-friendly city. we have a trans woman who was found dead in her cell. so it trickles down. we are not -- we're light years away from making tremendous progress on this. it's not about a tweet. it's about the fact that they're still dying in our country right now. >> lastly to you, we've been talking about separation of powers. there's the equality act. let's talk about the broader theme of policy, and bills keep coming to the senate and the -- >> the area to look for republicans to continue to erode progress in the space of lgbt rights will be in the narrative of pushing things back to the states, almost the mike pence

position, let marriage be decided at the states. that would be going backwards and the other is wrestling with this question of do lgbt americans need and should they be provided protected class status, i think the lessons of history suggest, yes, just as african-americans and women needed to be provided a certain legal protection, so does the lgbt community in 2019. it's unfortunate it's the reality, but it is the reality. in a very conservative narrative, you will hear the trump administration and the republican party say, we want equality for everything. and the way to accomplish that is not to provide protected class status. >> thank you very much for joining us. coming up, the president worried

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♪ the "i" word. the "i" word. can you imagine? >> it's a dirty word, the word impeach. it's a filthy, disgusting word. >> this is "up."

there's a new "i" word. first it was investigations, then impeachment, and now it is imprisonment. "politico" had a scoop this week that triggered president trump, a report house speaker nancy pelosi said she would like to see president trump in prison. she said that in a meeting with democratic leaders on tuesday in a back and forth over impeachment with judiciary chair jerry nadler. they cited multiple sources familiar with that meeting. that led president trump to lash out at nancy pelosi in normandy, just a few feet away from the graves of soldiers who died in world war ii. >> she's a nasty, vindictive, horrible person. why is her district have drugs and needles all over the place. it's the most disgusting thing what she's allowed to happen in her district, with drug addicts living on the streets. and her name is nervous nancy because she's a nervous wreck.

>> the irony should be not lost on anyone, the lock her up chant has been e , and don't forget this moment. >> it's awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of our country. >> because you would be in jail. >> what explains the house speaker's report, was she trying to tamp down talk of impeachment. >> donald trump as president delayed, deflected, moved, fired and did everything educational background to obstruct justice. if he were any other person in the united states, he would be carried out in handcuffs. >> democrats have salivated over the prospect of seeing president trump in prison, but he adds, the more pelosi ups the talk

about trump she hopes she can draw this out. pelosi was pressed on impeachment by my colleague andrea mitchell this week, and unlike president trump, the house speaker did not engage. >> do you worry about the politics right now, impeachment and everything else that's on the table and how that can further divide us. >> with all due respect, i'm not here to talk about impeachment. >> not here to talk about impeachment. up with me this hour, eddie glaude jr., jill wine-banks, a former assistant watergate special prosecutor, michelle goldberg, a columnist for the "new york times" and my colleague, cal perry is a correspondent for nbc news. michelle, let me start with you and just get a sense here of what you think was happening inside that closed door meeting.

is it messaging toughness, what do you think she was trying to do in that back and forth with jerry nadler? >> obviously there's growing pressure on her -- from her caucus. not just the 60 people who have already come out for impeachment. i think what you see with the reporting on jerry nadler, there's a lot of support from people who don't want to challenge her publicly, don't want to kind of promote -- don't want to create a lot of stories about dissension in the caucus. the democrats are almost overwhelming in support of it. so nancy pelosi is trying to hold this off, i think, but also gesture to people that she understands their outrage, she understands their disjust, and has in some cases held out the prospect of him going to prison after his term is over as, you know, sort of a way for people -- a way to kind of promise justice to people who,

you know, feel like there's this appalling degree of impunity right now. this isn't the first time she's said he could face prosecution after he's no longer president. >> in "politico" magazine, they talk about the path to do this. this isn't a pie in the sky thing. there is a case to be made when you look at the obstruction laid out in the mueller report. picking up off of what michelle was saying, there's the political messaging, there's some reality here as well. >> i think the time for political messaging is fast fleeting and that the balance has gone from maybe we have to weigh the politics against our moral obligation, our constitutional responsibility, to our constitutional responsibility is in control here. this has nothing to do with it anymore. the crimes are clear. i'm one of the thousand former prosecutors who signed the letter say this is a case we would be proud to bring and win.

so there are several approaches, one is, you can challenge the office of legal counsel. it's an opinion. it is not law. it doesn't govern. >> there's nothing in the constitution that bars indicting a president. we tried to convince the special prosecutor that we could indict. he said politically the right thing to do is this. so we did. but we did more because we wrote in clear, concise sentences a road map to congress. we went to the judge, we said we want to give this road map to congress. the courts approved it. they got our road map which included the underlying evidence, grand jury testimony, it included the tapes and it spelled out all of the crimes that he could be -- we didn't say these were crimes. we said these were acts. and they did. it can be done by doing that and turning it over and then if he's

out of office, you could indict him then. i think you can indict him before. you can indict him after. if you wait and he wins re-election, the statute of limitations is going to run and then you can do nothing because he will be off office and not indictable. and that's wrong. >> eddie glaude jr., i'm going to quote here, she writes, how did lock him up become a motto. the point really to find whatever is the best way to lock trump up yielding a mugshot of him and elegant photos of melania or is it to make sure that in january 2021 there is a new president in the white house. there's the debate. there's what michelle is talking about. whether or not to proceed with impeachment or focus on the election. >> i think it's right to ask those questions and think about

that. and let's think about this at another level. it could be the case that speaker employees is tryipelosi us to think about the level of criminality around trump. there are all the things that he's done, many people believe that he's the head of a criminal syndicate. that -- >> several signatories to that letter -- >> yeah. not only in terms of the trump foundation, trump university, there's a sense in which imprisonment registers a set of behaviors that isn't reducible to his behavior in office. so she's expanding or panning out for us in that moment. but i think she's doing it with a certain kind of political calculus in mind which i think she shouldn't be doing. there is at stake, i think, the basic foundation of our constitutional checks and balances. the way in which -- barr doesn't

give a damn about trump. if congress doesn't exercise its constitutional responsibility, they will be complicit in the destruction of our checks and balance system. i think it's important for us to make a distinction, she's saying that trump's behavior goes beyond his abuse of executive power. the guy is acting like a criminal and we have cases that we're pursuing to pursue that -- to prove that. then the other side is the political map. and the political matter is, the fact that he's abusing executive power. >> cal perry, get in here. do you agree with him, first of all, that bill barr is not doing anything with trump in mind? >> of course. and there's a moral obligation that people stand on what they believe is the right side of history because history is going to judge all of us. and this is a man who is lying about what's happening at the border, separating children in a

completely unnecessary fashion against international law, is stopping science from being presented to the american people and so you need to stand on what you believe is right. the problem is, that it may not help democrats win the next election. and the way that this is branded, we better use the language that you are using, congress better use the language of corruption and a president who has broken the law and they better get the verbiage away from impeachment because people in ohio and in michigan and pennsylvania, they view it as more of the swamp. >> michelle. >> i don't know if we know how people in all of these swing states view this. there used to be this line that nobody -- that this is something -- >> i'm with you on this. >> it's not just me. all of these members of congress went home for their memorial day recess and they heard about it every day they went. it's why some of them who didn't previously support impeachment have come around. people told me in pennsylvania,

in mississippi, that it's the first thing they heard about and so i think, again, this idea we all have that it's a beltway obsession, i think that's changing. i think people care about justice. >> we can agree, this president is not going to be removed by impeachment. he's going to be removed by an election or at the end of his second term, fair? >> i will push back a little on that. i think facts matter. and what happened in watergate was that as the facts started coming out, support for the president plummeted, support for impeachment rose. and i think that's where we're at now. it's a chicken and egg kind of thing. you need support to bring impeachment but you need to have impeachment inquiry and hearings and fact finding to get that support. and i will predict that monday could be a turning point. the hearings are going to be very dramatic, much more than i would have thought. i urge everyone listening today,

tune in to listen to john dean. >> very quickly here, i want to ask you about this as a trigger, i said this at the top. did president trump react to this, the specter of going to prison. >> look, nancy pelosi knows how -- she knows how to make the move shech move. she did it. when you step on a cat's tail and it screams, he knows he's in trouble. beyond that fact, the congress, democrats cannot appear spineless. they have to embrace their constitutional duty. we don't need politicians right now, david, we need statesmen and women. >> the very exciting tariff deal president trump claims will be a big win for the nation's patriot farmers. we'll be right back with more of that in just a moment.

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♪ this is "up." on may 30th, president trump sent out these tweets on june 10th, the united states will impose a 5% tariff on all goods coming into our country from mexico, until such time as the legal migrants coming through mexico and into our country stop. the tariff will increase until the illegal immigration problem is remedied at which time the tariffs will be removed, details from the white house to follow. that sent administration officials scrambling as he set a timer on something that would

have been politically and economically explosive. he set the timer and then he skipped town. president trump was in the united kingdom to commemorate d day and visit one of his properties in ireland. back home, his aides and republican lawmakers tried to defuse that device. >> there's not much support in my conference for tariffs, that's for sure. >> i think it's a mistake. >> we may have enough to override a veto on this? >> i've discussed it in several ways. >> suffice it to say, our members have a lot of concerns, they're very concerned about it. >> as that clock kept ticking down, they were worried about the kind of tariffs the president imposed, what that would mean for their constituents who would pay the price once tariffs were put in place. only one man had the power to stop the sequence but he was thousands of miles away and he was having none of it.

>> what do you think of republicans who say they may take action to block you from imposing those tariffs. >> i think if they do, it's foolish, there's nothing more important than border. >> mexican officials booked a trip to washington, d.c. >> mexico came prepared to put solutions on the table. on wednesday we felt they were insufficient. >> business leaders started to sweat. >> tariffs on mexican imports would harm u.s. consumers, workers, farmers and businesses of all sizes making us less c e competitive. we oppose tariffs. >> we're having a great talk with mexico. we'll see what happens. but something pretty dramatic could happen. we've told mexico that tariffs go on, and i mean it too.

>> the man who caused the crisis, swanned in to end in. hours before the trading relationship and the diplomatic relationship with mexico, one of our closest allies, could have blown up, crisis averted for now. >> michelle goldberg, i'm going to start with you. my homage to 24. picking up the "new york times" again, to summarize what they wrote, from what they heard from administration officials, so much that's in this thin, two-page document was stuff that was hammered out before. the frenzy that took place in washington while the president was away was a ruse. >> this is sort of their modus operandi, right? he makes some bombastic threat, everybody scrambles, then he --

>> bonus points if it's on twitter. >> then he climbs down while claiming victory and before we quite understand what the details of it are, you see a lot of chest beating on the right. well, how are democrats going to explain this one. how are democrats going to avoid giving him credit. you have to admit that only trump could have pulled this off. and it turns out, he got basically nothing while trashing american credibility in the process. and he's denying that today with -- >> four tweets. i'm not going to read them all. >> even by his standards. you sort of see both how incompetent they are on a policy level and how good they are on a media level because there is this moment before the details come forward where you start thinking, huh, maybe all this bluster actually did accomplish something. it's not worth it. but maybe this kind of game of chicken made them swerve.

and, no, and the more he run this is playbook, the less effective it is because everybody knows that you can get him to back down as long as he can declare victory on tv. >> this is the playbook. we've seen it now. in 90 days time, they're going to revisit what happened. now we've seen it. he's shown his cards. >> when are democrats going to take it seriously that this works, where he creates a television show, where he controls cable news for six weeks, it works. we're not talking about the detention facility that is are overwhelmed, we're not talking about the the fact that this country has become a detention facility. we have the technology to fix these things but we've cut the aid to these countries and democrats are not taking seriously that this works. that these images go out on the

tv and later this week when we should be watching what's happening on capitol hill, there's going to be video of mexican police standing off against migrants who are headed north in mexico. and he's going to say, see, i was right. and cnn and msnbc are liars and their not showing it even if we do -- that's what's going on. >> one of the things i think is going to be interesting, when you saw with north korea where he said, i solved it and he solved nothing. he had an interest in playing down sort of further developments that these new missile tests are no big deal. it's going to be interesting to see what he does when the migration doesn't stop. i think it would be a good thing if he has an interest -- how he has an interest instead of in fear mongering about these migrants, saying, it's handled. >> it's handled. he hadn't been to mexico, i think that's worth pointing out as well. he's dispatched jared who's gotten the order of the aztec

eagle or something. there's the shallowness just to his understanding the way all of this works. we talked about push factors. i have not heard the president say push factors during the course of his comments on immigration. >> push factors is a bit too high for his vocabulary of it. this is the highest cut of the red meat that he can throw to his base. he's appealing to these fears. he's using a language that they're invading our country, we're about to experience an invasion. >> and his policies are cruel. >> it reminded me of this wonderful quote on the pleasure of hating. and there's this sense in which this deep-seeded fear of hatred,

he's exploiting it over and over and over again. >> return to that. democrats are about to turn up the heat. tomorrow the first of a series of hearings on the mueller report. the fireworks we can expect from one of the witnesses to testify. look there, a familiar face, when we come back. k. your daily dashboard from fidelity. a visual snapshot of your investments. key portfolio events. all in one place. because when it's decision time... you need decision tech. only from fidelity.

he's exploiting it over and over when we come back. they need

because otherwise the house has no power. and they'll never been an equal branch of government if they don't stop writing letters and arguing and start filing lawsuits in federal court. >> former federal prosecutors spoke to my colleague chris matthews. one of the marquee witnesses is john dean who testified against president nixon some 46 years ago. >> i began by telling the president that there was a cancer growing on the presidency and if the cancer was not removed, the president himself would be killed by it. i also told him that it was important that this cancer be removed immediately because it was growing more deadly every day. the meeting with the president

that afternoon was a tremendous disappointment to me because it was quite clear that the cover-up as far as the white house was concerned was going to continue. >> the top republican on the house judiciary committee says the hearing could violate decency rules in congress and it appears to be part of a strategy to turn them into a mock impeachment inquiry. it is out of order for a member of congress to express an opinion even a third party opinion accusing the president of a crime. democrats say this is the first of several hearings that will focus on what we have seen of the mueller report. appearing along side john dean is joyce advance and barb mcquade but they are testifying as former u.s. attorneys, and as individual experts on the subject matter on that hearing. barb mcquade joins us now. i want to understand why you are testifying tomorrow. there's an emphasis here on the

historical residence of all of this. >> i was asked to come and testify and i think that the house wants to just gain a better understanding of the significance of the acts described in the mueller report. and so having been a prosecutor and handling obstruction of justice cases, also as a u.s. attorney and supervising obstruction of justice cases, i've seen memos like robert mueller's and i can share that appearance and try to put in context the significance of those acts. >> i don't want you to give up the goose and preview too much of your testimony, but what will success look like to you? what do you want the lawmakers to learn, what do you want the american people to learn from your testimony? >> well, success would just be a deeper understanding of the facts that are contained in robert mueller's report as jill wine-banks said earlier in your show. facts matter. i think it's a dense report, 448 pages that many americans have not read. and there has been so much

commentary on what it says that i think some of the facts they have been lost. i think a success would be an understanding of the facts that are in that report and the seriousness of them. i did sign the letter along with 1,000 other federal prosecutors that said that if the president were not precluded from being charged with a crime, i would have fully expected that memo to ended with, therefore i recommend charging obstruction of justice in at least four counts. >> jill, you might have a question for barb, but i want to ask you about the nature of this. we've had this conversation about the politics of the mueller report, how much of it we're able to see. but we haven't seen a hearing like that where it's entered into the record in this way. how important is that just for this to be in the water, in the legislative water on capitol hill? >> it's extremely important. the difference between now and watergate was watergate was preceded by senator sam irvin

and the special committee that was investigating campaign finance violations, oversight responsibilities, they had hearings that brought out facts, that people couldn't ignore. and that's when the republicans started going, oh, i know the president says he's not a crook, but he sure looks like one. so the facts do matter and they persuaded the republicans to end up going to the president and saying, if you do not resign, we will convict you in the senate. it was not an easy choice. but the facts do matter and public education is the key to what's going to happen. and i think barbara is correct that this is what we need to do and that this hearing is about making sure that people have at their discuposal what the muell report says. and it's so important.

there's absolutely critical that we go ahead with this. >> there was a piece in "the times" yesterday looking at things you might have missed in the mueller report. let me turn that around and ask you, are there things that stand out that you think are being missed when it comes to obstruction? what do you want to stress to the american people that they could find in that document? >> there are four episodes of facts that i think it's important to describe where president trump was attempting to impede the special counsel's investigation or even to curtail it to focus only on future investigations. and i think it's really important to understand the significance of that. i know that there have been those who have argued, what was there to cover up? and that's not the case. obstruction is the thwarting of the investigative progress because it impedes the ability of investigators to find the truth. and in this case there was an underlying crime and that was

the crime charged against russians to interfere with our election. and so those efforts prevented investigators from learning the truth that's necessary to protect america from an attack. i think the significance of the obstruction is one point i hope to emphasize. >> i'm going to read this with apologizes to the witness for tomorrow. this is from the atlantic. but it's a delicious quote. as congressional hearing notices go, it read like the lineup for a music festival. they tried to book taylor swift and beyonce but got hootie and the blow fish instead. apologizes to you. >> there's a bunch of people that if you have them there, it would be a blockbuster hearing and i understand the tension between just wanting to get this

thing started and still, you know, fighting it out to get all of these other people's testimony. but i think there's something a little bit anti-clamatic, as highly i think of john dean, i tend to feel like john dean is an interesting figure for a slightly different reason which is that he's an example if you're out there in the trump administration, do you want to be john dean or johner -- >> hopefully we'll see robert mueller follow in your footsteps. thank you very much for joining us. what bernie sanders is saying this morning about the newest poll out of iowa and the fight against the current front-runner, joe biden.

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♪ welcome back toup. a new des moines register cnn iowa poll shows former vice president joe biden holding a wide lead over the democratic field. 24% of iowa's likely caucus goers say he's their pick for president. in second place is senator bernie sanders with 16%. with just less than three weeks away from the first debate, we're seeing sanders square off with joe biden's record.

here we was just a few moments ago on cnn. >> the hyde amendment, that is not the only issue that you've had a disagreement about. you disagreed about nafta, about the war in iraq, the bank bailout in 2008. if you're right on all of these issues and joe biden is wrong, why is he in the lead? >> well, that's the poll of today. the last i heard, the election was eight months from today when the first ballots are going to be cast in iowa. and in terms of the war in iraq, let the american people decide. i not only voted -- i did everything that i could to make certain that the united states does not invade iraq. >> what does it say about joe biden's judgment that he didn't? >> i'm interested in two things here, the importance of this poll and also just the reaction to vice president joe biden.

eddie let me start with you on the second point. you have seen over the course of the last week with the hyde amendment conversation, the degree to which democrats focused on that. what happened this week with front-runner vice president joe biden? >> joe biden has to defend the record of the democratic party up until now. >> not just his record? >> he is an avatar for the dnc and its children. part of the response to hillary clinton, even though she wasn't president clinton at the time is that she wore the responsibility of a set of policies that impacted every day, ordinary people, the base of the matter, triangulation, corporate democrats or whatever. she had to bear the burden of that and her positions. biden as well. if biden isn't held accountable, then the way in which we account for hillary clinton is pure

sexism. >> of course, of course you're right. as always. but here's the but, joe biden is going to get forgiven a little bit for the policies of the past because so many democrats want to get rid of donald trump. he's going to be forgiven a little bit for the flip-flopping. there are democrats across this country who want the strongest candidate that they can get to get rid of president trump. the inherent problem there is that going to result in the best candidate? is that going to result in the candidate that has the best policies and the strongest appearance when it comes to those policies. >> i think you have to listen who what the policies are that he has going forward, not the ones he supported in the past. and a flip-flop is going back and forth and back and forth. he evolved. he changed his mind. he sees the reason for the hyde amendment being obliterated. we need the candidate who will win and if that's the person in joe biden who will appeal to the

steel workers and to the old base of the democratic party, then he's the one who should be -- >> they're saying a flip-flop is not a bad thing. >> i don't want to criticize joe biden for coming onto my position. his policies -- but i do think that this assumption that he's necessarily the strongest candidate to go up against donald trump, although there's now polling that shows that, there was -- the polling also showed that hillary clinton was going to eviscerate donald trump. we basically see the -- we're going to see over the next eight months and if joe biden is the nominee, this continuous apologizing but refusing to apologize for his entire -- for almost the entirety of his past career. and so i actually think that that puts democrats in quite a weak position because donald trump -- because they're going to be sort of vacillating and explaining. and if you're explaining, you're

losing. >> if we look at sanders' numbers, warren, buttigieg, most of the voters aren't looking to joe biden, they're looking for something big. >> you've got something in the mug? >> this is a green drink. >> i'm trying to hide it. >> finally to those, angry about the pastries. >> the south carolina democrat taking the fight to senator lindsey graham. jaime harrison joins us when we come back. en we come b ack.when cravings co stron, now you can be stronger. with new nicorette coated ice mint. layered with flavor... it's the first and only coated nicotine lozenge.

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he's earned endorsements already from luke skywalker himself, ma his campaign raised $270,000. graham has shifted to a predominant ally of donald trump and they're opening that grassroots energy will help some candidates score unlikely victories. senator graham's approval rating has risen 24 percentage points in less than two years. south carolina senate candidate jaime harrison joins us now. you have heard the rhetoric, this is going to be an uphill battle. what do you know about south carolina politics that the rest of us don't? >> david, listen, mad respect for you for knowing the river in south carolina. listen, my entire life i have

been told that you can't do something. i was born to a 16-year-old mom, grandparents didn't have much education, grew up in rural south carolina. i decided i wanted to go to yale. people said you can't get it and i did.had. decided i wanted to go to georgetown. they said you can't go there, and i did. i went to capitol hill and i did well. going against lindsey graham is just going to be yet one other hill we're going to climb but we're going to do it successfully. maybe the old lindsey graham would be very difficult to beat but lindsey graham 2.0 isn't. we've seen this guy, his core, the core values that help you determine that is right and wrong is just missing, it's not there. i don't know what happened to it. when john mccain passed away regrettably, lindsey graham's spine must have left with him because we just don't know who this lindsey graham is. >> jaime, i want to ask you about the conversation you had with the senate minority leered, chuck schumer, back in february

or march. you were talking about making a run for this seat. what did you talk about? what made this seem like something this would be worth your time getting into. >> we talked about how things are changer in south carolina and across the south. i really do believe we're on the brink of a new renaissance in the south for the democratic party. you look at what happened with stacy's race in georgia, what andrew was able to do in florida and beto in texas. what we need is an influx of resources into these southern states. for almost a decade, the national party really did not investigate in our democratic parties in the south. so with tom peres as dnc chair we saw a recommitment to the states and to building programs there i was telling him just a little about what we have done in south carolina. we have built a bench of democratic leaders across the state in every county. so we were able to flip a congressional seat. we were able to flip a state

senate seat. pick up a number of house seats in this past election. we do believe we're on the verge of building something new, and i think south carolina is going to be the tip of that spear. >> jaime, eddie from princeton has a question from you. he won't hold it against you you went time in new haven. >> it's clear you're in opposition to lind graham 2.0. what are your policy positions. where do you stand on medicare for all? what are some of the positions you're taking that will allow you to win this campaign in south carolina? >> eddie, i'm going to focus on the issues that are going to impact the people of south carolina. take one issue, for instance, health care. lindsey graham is/cassidy graham/cassidy, a health bill he came up with with rick santelli tore um. this is a bill that won't cover people. 20% of people in south carolina

this pre-existing conditions. this is a bill that will reduce money going into states. we've had four rural hospitals that have closed in south carolina. so if you have issues with diabetes or if you have a stroke or a heart attack and you're in one of these communities, it doesn't matter if you're a democrat or republican, it doesn't matter if you voted for donald trump or hillary clinton or lindsey or myself but in you are in that position and it takes you 25 or 35 or 45 minutes to get to the hospital, that is a death sentence. so it's not about a left or right thing, this is about right or wrong, and lindsey is just on the wrong side of many issues in the state. >> i grew up in the other carolina, north carolina, where i heard a lot about the new south. as you travel and write your column and look at the terrain, what does it look for you. jaime is talking about the change in the pass. what does that seem to you? >> in a lot of places they are

almost there. stacey abrams is correct, were it not for voter suppression she would have been the next governor of georgia. the georgia six, newt gingrich's district now represented by lucy mcbath, african-american democrat in favor of who ran on a platform of gun control. i think there is change but i think you can't underestimate the influence of the old south. a question i would have for jaime. on the one hand we would like to think lindsey graham has trashed his reputation. he's trashed his reputation in d.c. and new york but people love this new spineless, toady lindsey graham. he was more popular than when he had this rebeccatation. >> jaime, how are you going to fight back against that. >> i know you guys cited one poll. there was another poll that took place in february that had

lindsey at 36% approval, 44% disapproval. in that same poll donald trump was at 50% approval, so he was above water and lindsey was below water. the only other people below water than him was nancy pelosi. there will be more polls over the next few weeks. the constant refrain, i just had lunch with my wife at a nice restaurant and a republican couple came to me and said what happened to lindsey graham. two, i don't like the fact lindsey has not defended his best friend john mccain against the attacks from president trump. and so this is about character. right now we have to question the character and the values of lindsey dpram. >> jai-- graham. >> jaime, thank you very much. jaime joining us from south carolina. thanks to my panelist here.

coming up at the top of the hour, trump under fire. joy reid and the author of "siege" when michael wolff joins her next on msnbc. "siege" when s her next on msnbc. alright, i brought in ensure max protein... ...to give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you don't (grunti)g i'll take that. (cheering) 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar ensure. for strength and energy. shaving has been difficult for me. i have very sensitive skin, and i get ingrowing hairs. so it's a daunting task. oh i love it. it's a great razor. it has that 'fence' in the middle. it gives a nice smooth shave. just stopping that irritation... that burn that i get is really life changing.

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determination as to whether the president did commit a crime. the introduction to the volume 2 of our report explains that decision. it explains that under long-standing department policy, a president cannot be charged with a federal crime while he is in office. that is unconstitutional. charging the president with a crime was, therefore, not an option we could consider. >> hello and welcome to "am joy" coming to you live from london. when former special prosecutor robert mueller finally broke his silence rast month, he reiter e reiterated the policy that says a sitting president cannot be indicted. he stated that his office therefore never considered trying to indict donald trump for obstruction of justice despite not being able to clear him of crimes and finding 10 separate instances that now -- nearly 1,000 former federal