. my thanks to charlie sykes and to all of you for watching, thank you so much. >> that does it for this hour, i'm nicole wallace. mtp daily steve kornacki in for chuck starts right now. ♪ if it's monday as the households it first hearing on special counsel mueller's report, the justice department hands over everyday that could shed light on possible obstruction by president trump. >> that material could be in house democrat's hands within minutes, but no mention of mueller in iowa as 2020

candidates hit the trail there and new poll numbers show a possible shakeup in the leaderboard. if it's monday, it's "meet the press daily." good evening, i'm steve kornacki in for chuck todd. we have multiple investigations surrounding the mueller report. you are looking live at the first congressional hearing into the mueller report's findings, which is happening as any in a moment mou, t jerry fad ler have been trying to get their hands on for weeks. nadler today dubbed these mueller's most important files his words there. they include evidence in the special counsel's obstruction investigation. in exchange, he will set aside a criminal contempt proceeding on barr. the house judiciary committee is hearing from a panel of legal

experts, most say the president satchs the elements of a prosecutable or impeachable crime. we should note two of those witnesses are both msnbc contributors. they are testifying on their own. of course, the big question is whether chairman nadler is laying out a case for the president's impeachment. first into a series into the mueller report comes days before the house will vote on a civil contempt resolution involving the former attorney general and don mcgahn for failing to supply with presidential subpoenas. the fundament am political reality facing pelosi was on display at this hearing with democrats playing up the severity of what lies before them an republicans dismissing it as a political hit job. >> we were attacked. we were attacked by a foreign

adversary. president trump's campaign took full advantage of the attack when it came. the descriptions of obstruction of justice volume 2 go to the heart of our legal system. >> there is an obsession. there is another election around the corner. >> that other election is simply being played out here. how can we damage the president? because we don't like the cards we have to run the election on. with the economy and other things happening. >> ultimately, it's a simple question. is a house osed to come of all member in that hearing. she had and up close view zoe love green joins us from capitol hill. thank you. okay. you got john dean, mr. water gaethje there. you got folks making nixon, donald trump comparisons, there was a move to impeach nixon.

he resigned before it came to a head in 1974 is this hearing a prelude to an impeachment drive whenever it comes to this president? >> we'll see. in the case of both nixon and clinton, the judiciary committee had access to actual everyday. as of this moment, the committee has no evidence. we just have the mueller report. so we had a great victory. we think today when the justice department essentially caved, and said that they will provide the committee the evidence, the underlying everyday of the mueller report, which we will review. this hearing today really was an educational matter. the law professors, former u.s. attorneys, a mr. dean, who was the white house counsel during the nixon years, were able to provide information about what the report actually meant from their expertise.

so i think that was helpful, but, obviously, none of them are fact witnesses. >> yeah, and a lot. a big point was made about that, that these were not fact witnesses, john dean said that, himself, these are folks offering analysis of something that's out there. obviously, you put john dean out there. he has been a very outspoken critic of this hearing as well. he was an outspoken critic of george w. bush, called for the previous president's impeachment at one point. what would you say to critics that say what you are trying to do with there hearing is put on a show for your base. trying to give them something that maybe would be substitute for impeachment for them? >> well, as you know, we have tried to get fact witnesses before the committee. we've issued subpoenas, the fact witnesses will be issuing those subpoenas. john dean was a witness because

he was the counsel to president nixon. you know, he mentioned that the last time he had been in the committee room was july of 1974 and actually i was in washington working for my predecessor, congressman don eed wards, who was a member of the judiciary committee in july of 1974. so i have a lot of remember ambulance you that proceeded. he was able to get some insight into mr. mcgahn's behavior as described in the mueller report. i thought it was useful, but the other thing i think every year presumably every member of the committee has read the entire report. but probably the american public has not read the report. >> let me tell you how you folks may be trying to move this forward you say nadler

characterized what the committee will be getting here from the justice department as key evidence. he calls it bob mueller's most important files. specifically, those are some big records there, what sit you think you are getting? >> well, we'll see. my intention is to get the underlying evidence not only for volume 2 which is first up also volume 1, which is very important. the collusion between russia and campaign operatives. so i hope and expect we will get all the underlying evidence. we have the means to continue if it's necessary. obviously, we don't want to go down that road if the department of justice is willing to do what they need to do, which is issue to a response of a subpoena. >> you said he did not hear from

fact witnesses today, the two big fact witnesses who are often mentioned, potential fact witnesses would be the special council bob mueller, would be don mcgahn, still no deal for either of them to appear. what is the status of those fronts? >> i think mueller is not necessarily a fact witness but he's someone who could answer questions i have and others did about what was meant. certainly mcgahn is a fact witness. i think we will be moving forward. >> we seen path administrations describe these suspense over years. >> well, the courts are moveing a lot quicker. the case law is more clear certainly than it was when nixon was president. as a matter of fact, some of the precedence that were set were

nixon was president have are favorable to the congress at this point so we expect to prevail on these subpoenas. we have every right to hear from mr. mcgahn and other fact witnesses i believe we will. >> the "washington post" had this june 6th saying jerry nadler, the chairman of your committee has been pressing nancy pelosi the committee to launch an impeachment inquiry s. that true? >> he's not done so in my presence, you have to ask him. >> has he expressed to you that he's ready to begin an impeachment inquiry? >> not to me, not in my presence now. >> where do you stand? it sounds like you have been hesitant in the past. are you hesitant to launch and inquiry? >> i'm not afraid, i think we have to go about this in a deliberate way. as i mentioned before, we have a

report. we do not have the evidence that underlies the report. that's essential. you can't proceed without evidence. so we will be getting evidence soon. then we'll see where we are. >> a member of that committee, thank you for joining us. i appreciate that. >> thank you. >> let's bring in another person. congressman, thank you for taking a few minutes. zoe lofgreen says none of the witnesses were fact witnesses the purpose was to get it out there in front. what did you learn? >> i didn't learn more than what you hear on cable news, other than the title of presidential obstruction and other crimes. i think when you talk about chairman pelosi and jerry

nadler, you know where this is going. they understand it's purely a political hearing. i will say this, this mueller report is the most substantial piece of evidence. they have what they need. they just need to make a decision. they understand the american people don't want impeachment, so we continue to go on these show and political hearings. >> so what do you want to see? you are saying decided about impeachment. what course would you like to take as a member of the committee? >> i think we should call on bob mueller. i think we should also get to the point of moving on with the other business we have immigration issues. we will do anti-trust issues this week with the internet. the american people, when i get back home dpoe i don't get asked about mueller and collusion. i get asked about healthcare and aid. >> you mentioned mueller.

what about mcgahn, you want to hear from him? >> yeah, i think that's between democratic leadership and the white house. i think bringing bob mueller if we continue down this road is absolutely the way it should go. >> overall, you have a report here from the special counsel that says when it comes to this question of obstruction of justice. this is well documented. he didn't make a finding here. he pointed to ten possible instances of obstruction into justice involving this president. what should the judiciary committee do when it gets a report like that? >> first of all you have to start with it is never the prosecutor's moral burden to exonerate. we move through it. my answer is they should decide to have an impeachment hearing or move on. these show hearings are aco lassal way of time. >> is there a way to reduce it short of a hearing?

>> i think the house is mob rule. what the democrats determine to do is what's going to move forward. but we continue to do these hearings. we had four witnesses there that served no purpose to enlighten anybody about anything. at least three appear on cable news every night anybody can turn the tv on and hear the same thing. >> correct me if i'm wrong, you are against impeachment? you do not want that to be the outcome? >> my whole point is if we continue down this process, instead of having a circus, the democrats should do what i they want to do. >> i'm asking you then, a republican on the judiciary committee who doesn't want impeachment but is looking at a report that says there are ten potential instances of potential obstruction of justice involving the president of the united states. if you don't want impeachment

and you are on the judiciary committee, what do you do? >> i can walk through all ten of those charges him one of the things that gets lost in this argument is people go to the doj and a sitting president can't be indicted as the sole reason for why president trump wasn't charged. if you read the mueller report. you know that's absolutely not the case. there are legitimate reasons for a lot of things which potentially and the thing reads like a law review article about whether it is impeachment or not impeachment and they almost debate each case these levels, these things do not rise to the level of impeachment. >> you are satisfied now those ten instances mueller cites, each one individually you are satisfied is not obstruction? >> i absolutely am. i think we should move on and do the work of the american people. >> what about the department of justice for this underlying evidence to be turned the over,

what do you expect in terms of the everyday given your committee there? >> my understanding is the entire judiciary committee gets to see it. as soon as it's available, i will read the whole thing. i will say this is how these accommodations are supposed to work. you shouldn't have held them in contempt. i'm glad we are working towards how this is supposed to go. we will get access to more of the report. we will read everything that's available to us and continue to move forward. i do find it unfortunate we had to hold another of what i would say show hearing in judiciary to hold the attorney general in contempt. >> jerry nadler says this evidence is key evidence and some of robert mueller's most important files. is it conceivable to you that you will see something that you will change your mind on this? >>ly do something that i would recommend my chairman do as

well, read everything i think that has gone people in trouble. >> congressman from north dakota, thank you for taking a few minutes. ahead, both sides are digging in our legal expert is standing by live to break down their arguments, plus opening up the mueller file, the doj agrees to give congress evidence related to the president. the vice president spoke to nbc news' kristen welker. he says he supports that decisi decision. >> just to be sure you support this evidence in the report to chairman nadler? >> look the president's made it clear we support the attorney general and the department of justice. >> do you support this move? >> we certainly do. i have to tell you that i couldn't be more proud to have been a part of the

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the president provide over ample pages of documents, allowed key members of his staff to be interviewed and submitted written answers to questions. these are not the actions of someone attempting to obstruct an ongoing investigation, despite being clearly maddened by its existence. >> welcome back. that was john malcolm of the heritage foundation laying out the case why he believes the president did not obstruct justice in his handling of the mueller investigation. i am joined by someone that agrees. i am joined by the southern district of new york, she is an msnbc legal analyst and one of the former prosecutors who stated a letter saying they believe donald trump would face felony charges if he weren't president of the united states. mimi, thanks for taking a few minutes. we talked a little there about

what john dean had said. you heard from malcolm and soof the republicans, when it came to their case for why this is not a case of obstruction, two key themes they seem to stress. let me go through them with you. the first one was this idea that there is no, there was no under lying crime established by mueller in the report when it came to collusion, conspiracy, that you did not have an underlying crime that was established to obstruct. what do you say to that? >> well, first of all i say so what because under the law it just doesn't matter. second of all, as far as congress is concerned we're not talking about the crime of the obstruction but the conduct and whether it was obstructive or impeachable. lastly, i would say as i think barbara mcquaid made this in her testimony over and over again, there was lots of crimes, potential crimes, that trump

wanted to make sure were not investigated even if a crime was not ultimately found to be provable or chargeable by mueller, we know there was during the all of the conspiracy investigations that came out of mueller's office, we did find out about one crime, that's the one in the southern district of new york where trump was named essentially as a co-conspirator and there were other conduct that could have been criminal but for some legal technicalities, like the campaign finance fraud kind regarding trump tower. just because a crime found wasn't charge doesn't mean trump's motive wasn't to prevent those kind of crimes from being found. >> that would be a corrupt motive. >> that gets to the other idea what you call a corrupt motive. getting into donald trump's

intent was behind taking an action or not even necessarily taking an action, suggesting an action that maybe ultimately wasn't followed through on, that was the other argument that malcolm made. let's listen to that earlier today. >> you are talking about trying to determine what is an illegitimate or legitimate moment for core discretionary actions. it's easy to do in the face of facial criminal conduct or threatening a witness, not the actions that the president took here whether you like them or not. >> you can hear him there. he is basically saying the president has the right to take these acts so then you are into this realm of trying to discern intent. is that a slippery area to be in? >> well, ewould agree it's easier to discern corrupt motive when you are looking at as he says facially criminal or corrupt action like paying

abroad. it's not discernible and prosecutors make hard judgments about intent all the time every day and here where you have, for example, it's not that he took the act of trying to fire mueller, which he then tried to deny happened. he also then instructed mcgahn to lee about it and falsify everyday and anything but a corrupt motive. >> that is to me a facially corrupt act, trying to get a witness to lie and create false everyday so they can deny it ever happened. >> this deal struck with jerry nadler to ton over this evidence. he says this is key evidence. this is some of the most important files, can you shed light in what you expect this

might involve? >> i don't know what the question is. it's good they are good to get some concession now, some actual access to evidence i think what is far more important is the first hand testimony. today was this somewhat useful in highlighting what obstruction is, how the conduct described is objective. but there is no substitute for having don mcgahn testify and i hope that this is not the department of justice saying, okay. we'll give you this, so they look cooperative and will hold back the most important pieces, which is having the witnesses testify. >> thank you for taking a few minutes. i appreciate it. >> ahead the first iowa poll

since joe bind got in the presidential race. it shows first the front runner may be vulnerable. we will head over to the big board, break it all down right after this.

. you can't impeach somebody when there has never been anything wrong. we have a no collusion, no anything. there is no obstruction, no collusion, there is no anything. when you look at past impeachments, whether it was president clinton or i guess

president nixon never got there. he left. i don't leave. it's a big difference. >> welcome back. >> that was a few minutes, the president addressing today's hearing. we have an msnbc reporter joining us and susan dell persia the chief public affairs officer for move-on, thanks to all of you for withing with us, core ren, give me the question, the purpose of today's hearing. i'm trying to figure it out. is this the show for the base of the democratic party wants to see something? or is this a part of a grander strategy? >> i think it's both. i think what democrats needed to do the get out of the process, which was having this fight over witnesses, it was time to show the american people, what is it that they are laying out? what is in this mueller report.

as we know a poll said only 3% of the american public has read the mueller report. i think this is where we are today and will continue to be. james dean is a very powerful voice in this moment because of what happened in watergate. people have made the comparison to watergate. i think it is a start. i think it is a smarter move from them. let's see where it takes them. >> i think is this a test. you see where public opinion is right now. we heard this earlier in the show, zoe lofner said this is an idea you call the witness, the numbers will move. the numbers haven't moved on much of anything in the trump era. is this a test of democratic leaders to see if they will change the numbers and it's worth the next step. >> they won't change the numbers

in no disrespect to dean. he's not going to get -- people aren't going to say, oh my god, john dean said this, so this must be the case. they need, basically the public will say what else you got? because there was clearly a place holder. they're having problems. the congressional committee is not able to get people to testify. the president is stopping it. whether it be his counsel or others. but there are plenty of other people who can come and testify which they haven't called on, which i just don't understand. >> mueller, mcgahn. those are the two biggys. mueller said you can call me. i will say what i said. mcgahn says i won't even show up. where does that leave them boxed in. >> i think president trump has boxed them in. the democrats decided to say to the public, there are more things to consider impeachment proceedings. the white house smartly is

saying we will systematically deny you those things and deny you the opportunity to have kane kind of a spect cam, big moment, witnesses, new information. so what ends up hang, they have to relitigate everything in the mueller report and possibly if they had stepped out in the beginning and said, this is the right thing to move to impeachment and possibly more and more voters would have come with them. >> that's not what you are describing would be trump boxing people in. that's bob mueller boxing them in as well. so where do democrats go now? >> i have no idea. we do know. they are going through the process in the courts, i think also getting donald trump's tax returns is really another interesting thing to say. they're going to be fishing for a while. the thing that concerns me is we just don't know what we don't know. it's beyond the mueller report

that congress can go through, there is a lot of information through oversight they can find out that i think the american people are concerned about. the president is clearly makening money while he has been present. we should see his returns to see where that is coming, influencing him. there are other things they are trying to do in all fairness, right now it's noise from the american public, noise out of walk. nothing is being done, that's what they hear. that's frustrating. >> that's a big picture question is when you look at the mueller report, so much of the focus is on obstruction the second part. the first part on conspiracy and occlusion, unable to establish any conspiracy here. given how this was in many ways by democrats, the resistance,

you could say, given the last two years were filled with trump the russian agent, trump the guy compromised since 1987. trump the guy going to meet with his handler in putin in helsinki. did that create an expectation of something clear cut and blockbuster and now year talking about the intent of obstruction. >> it created that because of william barr, attorney general barr got ahead of everything and created the narrative. >> i'm talking about the two years before that, was there a level of talk about what this was going to establish? >> i don't think so, he was not exonerated. donald trump is never exonerated. there is a level of obstruction voters saw themselves, we got to remember, if we go back to 2018, that was in part one of the reasons the democrats got the blue wave they wanted a check on this administration. they saw for their very own eyes what was going with this president. look i have been very critical of the democrats. i have been saying please start the impeachment inquiries. it's really important. that's how have you the power.

it turns into a just dish process you can get things you wouldn't be able to in the position they are now. i think the good thing about today it takes them out of process. now we have to see what they do with it. they have to get mueller. they have to get mcgahn. they are boxed in. >> they need the narrative. >> that's the problem. they have been confusing everyone. if you are saying that you want to imprison donald trump. >> that means he committed a crime. so then move forward. do your constitutional duty. i am infuriated about that i think we are paik taking a step. today we have showing them here's what we v.. >> so what itself the time table? now we are into june. traditionally there will be a recess in august. you have a campaign.

all the comparisons to the nixon impeachments. those were second term impeachments. this president is set to face the american people in a year from now. if there will be impeachment, when does that decision have to come by? >> i think it's possible that pelosi gets her thing in the end, this thing is slow rolled, essentially the election and impeachment proceeding are one. i think what you saw today with a decision by justice to release documents, a surprise decision of coming to an agreement you will see that over and over again. democrats will get push, push, push, and get no, no, no, at the last second there will be a compromise to trip democrats of the opportunity to look as though there is some kind of wall going up. >> that's with mcgahn, we had zoe lofgen, it is quicker, the precedence for the disputes, we're talking two years to be

resolved. harriet meyers in that case. nick, susan, you guys are sticking around. ahead, iowa that was the place to be this weekend. if you are a 2020 democrat, a new poll shows the leadoff state is willer very competitive. >> i look at it the glass half full on number 6 in a field of 24 people i think you should look at this as the whole game. not just the first quarter.

> . hello iowa democrats! >> iowa, iowa. >> iowa. >> iowa. >> iowa. >> thank you, iowa. >> it's been a pleasure speed dating with you tonight. >> all right. welcome back. >> that is where most of the democratic field was over the

weekend. we just so happen to have fresh polling data in the state of play in iowa the state that will kick everything off. we had a lot of polls. nationally, biden generally mid-30s or soient 2-1. we have been seeing poll after poll nationally like this here is the new cnn poll. check this out. that's a single digit lead all of a sudden. biden has over second place, it's elizabeth warren and pete buttigieg, instead of being back

to you can say joe biden so why do things look differently than nationally? number one they are campaigning, it's a part of the political culture they're very engaged. it gets media coverage. you can move it nationally. joe biden hasn't been nearly as aggressive. another reason, another key reason is demographics of iowa versus the broader democratic party. joe biden, we say he's the leader nationally. one of the reasons joe biden is doing so well nationally is black voters. one out of every four votes cast in next year's democratic primary will be from joe biden.

this is him among black voters. significantly better biden is doing among black voters than white voters, he has 45% nationally. so that's one of the reasons why biden has been so strong in those national polls. you go to iowa. he can't lean, there are not that many in iowa. the state it's not the state. it's the caucus electorate. 3% ovlt of the democratic caucus in iowa was black. biden doesn't have that same support. it's an overwhelmingly white elect tore ralt when you look within, look at self-described liberals in iowa. warren is in first. buttigieg in second. white liberals, they tend to do a lot better nationally.

there are a lot more white liberals. they have been able to campaign aggressively, a war they have. so add that up. that's what you got. the state of play in iowa where biden is not dock as well nationally. buttigieg is doing a lot better. again a lot can change a lot of time all of that. but it looks different in iowa. that's potentially a problem. if he loses, takes a hit there, there could be a ripple effect. that's the front runner's fight mayor. we'll be back with the number one issue for iowa democrats. stay tuned. e for iowa democrats stay tuned and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life. ♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today.

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we must have bigger aspirations and bolder dreams than just that, beating donald trump is the floor. it is not the ceiling. beating him. beating him will get us out of the valley but it will not get us to the mountaintop. welcome back. new jersey senator corey booker says democrats have to have higher aspirations, the latest poll have defeating him as the most important, two-third, 60% say it is more important for the winner to have a strong chance of beating donald trump compared to 31% who say it is more important for the caucus winner to share their major positions.

susan, core ren is back with me. let me see where biden sits. there are two schools of thought on it. number one is he hasn't campaigned much at all in the big debut, the big test will be that debatened that's one way of looking at it. the other is, all the advantages he is bringing to the race. >> look. every person behind them will tirado placings in a second. she winning. we are eight months away, simply ahead by a decent margin. what i see the iowa democrats are pragmatic and want to beat trump and like a bunch of

different candidates. there is lots of this i think so to happen. they always do. >> that's where that electability season comes in. two-thirds, i wonder if that's not how much they say who their first choice is once the primary season starts. i remember when john kerry became the nominee, he was nowhere until he won iowa all these edward supporters they all got behind kerry because they wanted to unite hein somebody. >> we're going to say iowa, new hampshire and south carolina. >> that will tell the story. i think biden has himself in an interesting, precarious situation. he has to go and keep the lead.

>> that is his biggest strength is he can take on trump and people think other candidates can do just as much of a good job against donald trump, they will start looking at him. they're at eight points. if it gets to a point race, biden can be in trouble. they think their candidate is the best person. >> my question is how do they give up? their preferred candidate doesn't win here. it's a little stronger than that. >> let's ask about bernie sanders, look. the reputation is this is the candidate of the activist. this is the candidate on the left and the reputation of iowa, the caucuses, this is the place in the democratic party. sanders basically battled

hillary clinton to almost a tie there in 2016. he's sitting there, not winning liberals in iowa. >> he is having a tough time, now there are alternatives. have you elizabeth warren who is rocketing towards him and one thing i notice about the polling back in march, you combine biden and bernie, they're at 52%. now they're at 40%. it is a wide opened field. you do not want to be the leader. the front runner right now. we've seen this time and time again. you just mentioned kerry. i think what's happening now is that iowa caucus goers are smart people. they know what is in their hands. they will go to multiple events. some maelaene towards one candidate and they will move, listen and hear, yes, they want

someone to beat trump. they are listening, how are you talking to me? the other thing that biden need to be careful about. they want to see people fighting for their votes. they want to see you out there in their living rooms. out there in the town halls, talking to them. i was in an incredible state. >> i don't know how to put this, we never had a president of the united states 80-years-old in office. if joe biden is elected, he will cross 80. you can go back a generation ren ronald reagan was going to be the first 70-plus old president, there were all sorts of questions back then on the campaign trail. is he up to it? i think people are asking a similar campaign and it kicks into more of a full time campaign. >> that will be the question

there. >> healthcare is better and better these years. you can go on a long time in politics. the john biden was if full possession of his political strengths. i see no reason why he can't get those back a year later? i know it's time about talking about politics as though it's theater. there is an element, practicing to people. communicating in a certain way. he has to get back into the rhythm to be a real way. >> not have this itis. the hyde amendment last week was a perfect example. his staff went out there and said he supported it. it was an evolution thing. it was a campaign fought ready for prime time.

>> that more than age is a concern for biden right now. >> the question is the night before, it was a religious objection. the next night there has been an evolution. does that happen? does that become a scene? nick, susan, corinne, thank you fowl all for being with us. we'll be right back.

[ sitar music playing ] chloe, why is there a lamp shade on your head? shhh. my owner might have given me a little bit of cat nip. uh. [ laughing ] it's great, listen. it is great, gidget. everything is grand. [ meow ] [ purring ]

[ growl ] are you finished? [ cooing ] that was weird. oh sister it's gonna get way weirder. . and you are looking live here at the proceedings going on before the committee here. >> that first hearing on the

mueller report hearing continues at this hour. we will be back tomorrow, "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. >> good evening, as steve mentions, that hearing continues. we will bring you the live updates from it, including very special coverage. this is quite a monday to start the week. watergate star witness john dean in those hearings i mentioned still continuing. he laid out why he basically thinks. although he used careful language that the sitting president is a criminal. we'll get into that. the justice department also folded. this is a story we have been covering a lot. you will think, what will ever happen? was ag barr ever going to back down? he did. he handed over new documents to the congress. there is a lot we will get into. that's not all, donald trump, himself, backed down completely with his threatened trade