senators' preferences. some food for thought adds mitch mcconnell's nemesis now takes over america's immigration program. we wanted to bring you that update to that story we've been covering on "the beat." that does it for me. thanks for watching. we'll be back at 6:00 p.m. eastern. don't go anywhere because "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. dean's list. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews up in new york. big show tonight. john dean of watergate fame gets under donald trump's skin. is anyone surprised by that? trump's attack on the media goes into overdrive. i've got a hell of a debate tonight between former white house coms director, anthony scaramucci, the mooch, and who trump called "little donny

deutsch deutsch." why they say they'd be better candidates than senator joe biden to take down trump. let's go to john dean's testimony today before the house judiciary committee, whose testimony a lot of people didn't get to see because of the tragic helicopter crash here in new york. dean, of course, is the former white house counsel to president nixon who famously blew the whistle on the watergate cover-up almost 50 years ago. he made two main points today in his testimony. he called the mueller report a road map for investigating trump and he said that don mcgahn, trump's former white house counsel, should follow he, john dean's example, and testify before congress. here he goes. >> mr. mcgahn represents not donald trump but the office of the president. his client is the office of the president. and i think he owes that office his testimony before this committee. >> do you agree with the white house or does mr. mcgahn still have a legal obligation to appear before the committee? if so, why? >> i have also read the olc opinion of may 20th that says

that a white house employee or a former white house employee has total immunity from testifying or appearing before congress. that pushes the outer limit further than i have ever seen it pushed. i think this is a smokescreen at this point and i hope that the committee will pierce it because i think it's important. >> in an effort to discredit that witness, john dean, republicans today in today's hearing accused dean of profiting from his place in history. here is part of an exchange with congressman matt gates. >> how many american presidents have you accused of being richard nixon? >> i actually wrote a book about mr. bush and mr. cheney with the title "worse than watergate." >> so it's sort of become -- did you make money on that book? >> it was a very successful book, yes. >> how much money did you make on it? >> i'm sorry, i don't have any idea. >> mr. dean has made a cottage industry out of accusing

presidents of acting like richard nixon, i'd like to know how much money he makes based on these accusations and exploiting them for his own economic benefit. do you believe if we turned the lights out, lit candles and got out a ouija board we could raise the specter of richard nixon? >> i doubt that. >> well, it seems to be -- it seems to be the objective. >> well, even before today's hearing, the prospect of dean testifying appeared to get under donald trump's skin. last night president trump called dean a "sleaze bag attorney" and said today he can't believe they are bringing in john dean, the disgraced nixon white house counsel who is a paid cnn contributor. according to a new npr poll, 22% of americans now support impeachment proceedings against the president. i'm joined by robert costa of "the washington post." elizabeth hoelzman who voted to impeach president nixon in '74.

there she back then. we are going back in time tonight. robert costa, can you explain once again, i ask you to be the trump whisperer in reverse. what is it that bothers him about john dean? >> he's bothered by things from that period of american history. that's when he got his rise in real estate in the 1970s. he became a figure in american life in the 1980s. he's often spoken about nixon. i've had conversations with him about president nixon over the years. he does not like that revival being connected to him in any way so he pushed back against it. >> does he think this is guilt by nostalgia? does he think this is actually going to work? the ouija board line was pretty funny from that congressman, but i get the feeling he doesn't like this seance. >> he uses political theater in his own career and he knows the democrats are presenting a case of political corruption by talking about john dean and richard nixon. his lawyers tell me, his friends

tell me, chris, what he really is concerned about is getting witnesses connected to the trump administration. the white house counsel that matters for this president is don mcgahn not john dean, and that's why this white house is blocking testimony and documents from that white house counsel because as much as they battled the democrats on the messaging and the theater, it's the documents and the testimony of the people that matter now that's of high concern in the west wing. >> well, here's a tough question. i don't know if anybody knows the answer but you might. do you think don mcgahn will stand up as a witness if he goes before a democratic-controlled house judiciary committee like he did before the mueller committee? will he say that donald trump tried to get me to fire mueller? will he be that strong? >> unlike john dean, based on my reporting, don mcgahn has not broken with this administration. he's a grumbling lawyer at times about his experience in the white house. according to his friends. but he's an ideolog, a conservative, somebody who touts his time in overhauling the federal judiciary as part of his tenure in the white house, someone who helped mitch

mcconnell, the majority leader, nominate all of these judges. he still looks back fondly on what he did, so his willingness to break, to have some kind of breach, it's just not there, according to his associates. >> so this star witness, most democrats that i know about are looking to hear testify under oath may not stand up because my question will be, okay, the president told you to fire the special counsel. and you didn't do it. did he follow up? did he put pressure on you to do it? did he try to fire mueller in any other way? it will look like it wasn't really a serious effort to obstruct, i don't know what, an impulse that wasn't followed through on, which may not be enough to push for impeachment. that's my thinking. >> he's the closest we can get, reporter, any american citizen to understanding the president's intent. intent's everything for the democrats' case on impeachment, but if don mcgahn's not going to lean into intent then that makes the democratic case harder to make. >> i agree. a real question mark. i'm not sure whether it's going to unintended consequences are

always flying our way in politics. thank you. by the way, here's what dean said when asked if any president since richard nixon has committed as many crimes as nixon? >> comparing nixon to any future administration, would you say there was a future administration that committed more crimes than the nixon administration as far as obstruction? >> i would say the trump administration is in fast competition with what happened to the nixon administration. >> congressman holtzman, thank you for joining us. there is this overlap between nixon, tricky dick, as his enemies call him, and this guy. trump, if he did tell mcgahn to fire mueller, it's what nixon did on the saturday night massacre. same thing. >> absolutely. >> it's called obstruction of justice. >> correct. and, remember, knicksen was nam nixon was named an unindicted coconspirator. remember that. the case that mueller's made. of course he didn't draw a line and come up with a total.

he said i can't draw a conclusion, but the facts repeat almost exactly what nixon was doing. i wrote a book, "the case for impeaching trump," and i point out those examples. it's not only the firing -- trying to fire the special prosecutor. and he didn't do that only once. it's also trying to -- >> did he go back and try it again when mcgahn didn't follow through or what happened? >> yes, of course. he went to lewandowski and said, lewandowski, you got to tell sessions he's got to take over this investigation. >> then what happened? >> well, lewandowski didn't follow through, so, you know. >> the one difference is that nixon kept firing people until somebody did fire archibald cox. >> maybe he forgot what he was doing. i can't speak to that but the pardons also come right out of watergate. the dangling of pardons. that was one of the articles of impeachment against nixon, he dangled pardons before the watergate burglars to keep them from talking and cooperating with the prosecutors. we have ample evidence of that. >> also hush money.

not totally related, but the two women. >> getting the cia, he tried to get pompeo and dan coats, both top intelligence officials in the top agencies to call comey and stop the investigation, so we know that there was -- and that's what was at the beginning of nixon's actions. call the cia, get them to stop the fbi investigation. so we've got stuff right out of the nixon playbook. >> do you think if we had tape on trump his people would still support him? i think that's different. >> listen, 25% -- >> the top will support him no matter what he does. >> correct. that's 25%. the rest of the country, if the diplomats get the facts and put it out in the right way, if they do it in a fair and clear and serious way, the american people will support. >> do you think jerry nadler's up to what peter rendino did? >> i think he's learning. >> the president continued to attack john dean late today. let's watch that. >> look, john dean's been a loser for many years. i've been watching him on one of the net works that is not exactly trump oriented. i guess they paid him a lot of

money over the years. john's been a loser a long time. we know that. he was disbarred and he went to prison. >> let me ask you a bigger question now, robert. probably the biggest question i can come up with right here in new york. does trump think he's beaten this rap? >> he knows in terms of the mueller report -- >> yeah. >> he's not going to face immediate charges or any kind of federal prosecution. but he does not believe that he's totally beaten the rap politically because he looks at what happened in 2018, suburban voters do have questions about his conduct. and the questions about his conduct will continue to linger as long as the democrats continue to investigate. but the question is, he thinks the democrats in his mind when you talk to top white house officials may go too far. that's why he's almost baiting them with impeachment. but he doesn't like the scrutiny of his finances. he doesn't like the scrutiny of his conduct. but he also thinks he can make them a target if they go down that impeachment path in an explicit way. >> well, this is what i can't

figure out about the guy, and maybe he doesn't have all of his head together around this situation, but when you dump on nancy pelosi, who is a tough political leader, the way he has. going after her, saying she's a disgrace to her family. going after san francisco and the homeless situation there. very direct shot at a politician if you're a member of congress. all this personal. you can't take this back. you can't say the next time you meet with her, oh, that's just politics. doesn't he know that might push her oh do something she normally wouldn't do, which is to say let's go with this thing, let's impeach this guy? >> he's using this urban-style warfare, political warfare going back to how he used to fight more koch in new york city. when you go back to people in the white house, thrm sometimes that speaker pelosi comes out of the streets of baltimore. her father, tommy dal sandro. she knows that kind of political warfare, speaks that language, even show she doesn't often go in that direction ever in terms of cursing or anything, she knows how to play tough, to play

hardball to steal your phrase. >> one thing i noticed about her, she's brilliant but she doesn't forget. when somebody runs against her as speaker, she never forgets. i never knew a speaker, including tip o'neill. they were never sort of welcome in the office again. that was a fact. they never came around anymore. >> she's not even stopping john dean -- she controls the committees with an iron fist. she's not stopping the committee from bringing up john dean. she knows that gets under the president's skin. she's still in full control. she's letting the committees push and prod whenever they want to because it helps with her left flank as well. >> well said. let me ask you about jerry nadler, the chairman of the judiciary committee. i see a man under tremendous train. the problem with congress is you've got to serve 30 years to get any power. here is a guy that knows nancy pelosi, the speaker, doesn't want to go with impeachment. i don't think she'll ever want to go because she thinks it bad politics. 20 members of his committee, apparently, out of 24, of the

democrats, want him to. he's in that vice. >> correct. >> what's that like? >> well, i wasn't the chair of the committee. i've been the chair of a subcommittee, but i think what he has to do now is get the facts of the mueller report out to the american people. most of them don't understand what's in it many of them heard barr that's nonsense. it's a lie. it's not true. nadler has to get that out to the american people. it was the american people that forced congress to -- >> how do you do that without hearings? >> well, you got to -- >> impeachment hearings. >> you can do it without impeachment hearings. what happened in watergate was that the senate had hearings. you have to do something equivalent to that. you've got to get that report out. you've got to get the american people to understand the facts. they can make congress do the impeachment. >> sam irvin and howard baker and a cast of television stars. that was an amazing hearing. >> of course. >> and we watched every bit of it. >> and only seven people there. >> where is robert mueller? where is robert mueller? why is it john dean? >> that's a great question. if he won't testify in his own

report, what's happened? >> right. >> that's a problem. anyway, thank you. robert costa, as always, thank you. former u.s. congresswoman elizabeth holtzman. the title of your book is "the case for impeaching trump." good looking book. out by sky horse productions. more on today's hearing and whether democrats should push for impeachment hearings. we're going to get to that question again because it's everywhere i go with all these lawyers. i always hang out with lawyers. every single one of them, all they talk about is are you going to impeach? i'm going to talk to a member of the house democratic leadership on that in a minute. plus, president trump's hysteria about the media. he says he knows these attacks are not presidential butc donnye along with former trump official, anthony scaramucci. not one but two of the democrats running for president are all going to play "hardball" tonight. cory booker of new jersey and new york city's own bill de blasio. they're both joining us here right here at this table.

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the democratic caucus now, are pushing for impeachment to begin. here's how president trump responded today to calls for impeachment. >> you can't impeach somebody when there's never been anything done wrong. we have no collusion. we have no anything. there is no obstruction. there is no collusion. there is no anything. when you look at past impeachments, whether it was president clinton or i guess president nixon never got there, he left. i don't leave. there's a big difference. i don't leave. >> i don't leave. i'm joined now by pennsylvania democratic congressman matt cartwright. congressman, thank you for coming, letting us go to your district a couple of weeks ago for our town meeting. "the deciders." we met a lot of interesting people. now, let me ask you, you're an interesting guy. where are you on impeachment, go or not go? >> oh, i think i speak for the entire house democratic leadership team when i said, chris, we're going to do something reasonable and sensible and measured. we're not going to rush headlong

into anything. you heard it yourself right their in wilkes-barre, where you did a town hall, people were not talking about impeachment, they were talking about the kitchen table issues that affect them and their families and their daily lives. that's what the democrats have been focused on. so, health care. we passed out of the house house bill 987 to make generic drugs cheaper and easier to acquire. we passed also as part of that bill -- >> right. >> -- outlaws junk insurance plans. this is what people at home are talking about. i realize impeachment is, you know, interesting and flashy and it's the bright shiny object, but we focus on what's important to the people at home, chris, and you heard that in wilkes-barre. >> thank you. there were 60 democrats in the house who want impeachment to begin right now. are you one of the 60? >> no. and here's the thing. the playbook has been laid out. if you want to bullocks up an

impeachment, if you want to get it wrong, we saw them do that in the late 1990s. they got ahead of public sentiment. they got ahead of what the evidence showed and they went ahead and impeached bill clinton and paid for that for a generation. it created moveon.org. you know, let's move on from bill clinton's private life. and republicans paid dearly for that for a generation. why would you want to go down that same path? >> if you were a judge and not an elected official, if you were a judge and looked at this case and looked at the mueller report and what it said about obstruction, would you see an impeach offense there? >> well, the question is whether you'd find an indicting offense and you very well might. i think that's the point of the hearings now, chris, not to dramatize things, it's just to get them out. you can't expect regular people at home to read through the 400-page mueller report. it's really the job of the house to get the information out and so people at home want weigh it and think about it and chew on it and decide where they're at on it. >> would you be able to live

with it as an elected official representing your community up there in northeastern pennsylvania, would you be able to live with it if trump got away with all of this? >> as long as we do our job -- >> no, if he got away with it -- if he gets away with it? >> well, that's like saying bill clinton got away with something. i mean, it's about what public sentiment will put up with, and if trump did something that the public is fully informed of, that we do our job, our article i requirements of keeping a check on the executive branch. >> okay. >> if we get the facts out so everybody knows what the facts are, and they still think it's okay, then that's what we do. we don't impeach and we just let -- >> well. >> -- the voters decide at the ballot box. >> do you think the leadership of which you are a part of, the democratic party in the house, is delaying a vote or proceedings on impeachment or are you crossing it off as a possibility? which is it? >> i don't think either is true. i think that's a -- that's a false choice, chris. i think what we're doing is, you

know, we're being deliberate about it. >> okay. >> we're getting the facts out and we're going to see -- >> okay. >> if the american people want us to go down that path. and i think that is the responsible -- that's the sensible, that is the measured thing to do in this case. >> i appreciate you coming on, congressman. i will make you the same gentleman's bet, no money involved, that the house will not impeach this president at any time during this congress through the next year. they will not impeach. it will not happen. >> thanks for coming to wilkes-barre, by the way. enjoyed having you there. >> the people were great. they know how to argue and they know what to care about. they said stop looking down on us and stop taking us for granted. >> they did. >> we're real people. as important as anybody in the big city. get your act together. it was wonderful. >> that's the most important thing you brought out, politicians think people look down on them. so important we paid attention to that. >> really nice people. thank you so much. congressman matt cartwright of pennsylvania. up next, donald trump admits

he's not acting presidential but, of course, he can't stop it, including his wild sort of weird attacks on the media. i think he got okay press. got this deal through with the mexicans. not quite as big as he says it is. but he got some ink out of that. what's his problem? a lot of pictures with the royal family. that's going to help him with people. donny deutsch and "the mooch" anthony scaramucci join me next to debate. it could be hot. stick with us.

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howard beale is a fictitious tv newsman who found his way in the line of fire because of his pursuit of the truth. and i would like to dedicate this to all the real journalists around the world, both in in -- both in -- both in the press and the print media and also broadcast media who actually are in the line of fire with their pursuit of the truth. the media is not the enemy of the people. demagoguery is the enemy of the people. thank you very much. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was, of course, bryan cranston at last night's tony awards accepting his award for best actor for his performance in the stage adaptation of "network". and while cranston didn't say donald trump once, his message was clear given the president's weekend attack on the news media. this sunday, yesterday, his ire, trump's ire was about the reporting of a deal to avert

tariffs on mexico. in a series of tweets he attacked the "new york times" reporting writing, the failing "new york times" and ratings challenged cnn will do anything possible to see our country fail. they are truly the enemy of the people. it followed a similar tirade on saturday by trump when he took aim at print and broadcast outlets including this network, of course. then just before midnight came this quote. little donny deutsch is a disaster. has been saying that i have been a friend of his. this is false. hardly knew him other than to know he was, as is, a total loser. but just minutes later, trump conceded his attacks were beneath the dignity of his office. trump said "i know it's not at all presidential to hit back at the corrupt media. problem is if you don't hit back, people believe the fake news is true so we'll hit back. we." for more i'm joined by donny deutsch himself host of "saturday night politics" here on msnbc and the great anthony

scaramucci. former white house communications director. he says attacks on the country as if he was charles de gaulle. even de gaulle knew he wasn't the doesn't. he says "we" like a royal person. >> first of all,tics." the president of the united states, the leader of the free world, he's sitting in his pajamas at 11:15 on a saturday night a rerun of mine, watching it and tweeting about it. denying we were friends just like michael cohen wasn't his lawyer even though he's serve time in jail for paying off a stripper. >> 45% of the country believes everything this guy says. >> it's scary. it was the same kind of disconnectedness to everything i was talking about. >> tell me about your relationship with him in a cappual. were you friends? >> yeah, we were friends -- >> is that why he's mad at you? >> sam nunberg was on my show. michael cohen told me the same story. when he came out with the bigger thing, i came out and said it was racist.

he called me up -- >> he didn't know it was racist. >> you're my friend. how can you say it's racist? because it's racist. the same deattachmentachment. it's the same detachment that allows him to sit in front of the cemeteries -- >> did you ever call him up and say wise up and stop being such a guy, we can be friends again -- did you ever try to put him straight? >> our last conversation was after he won the -- i think one of the early primaries. he called me up and he says, can you believe this? i said, yeah, it's amazing. they can't find somebody to replace me on "the apprentice." that's where his head was at. then i started trashing the immediately. >> mooch, does this square with your look at trump. >> look, i obviously like the president. i think down deep we all sort of admire -- >> you never crossed him. >> no, i haven't crossed him but i do disagree with him on the press. i wrote an op-ed "the press is not the enemy of the people." i wish he would stop saying that. it's not good for the kids. it's not good for him. >> people tell me he reads

everything. >> he gets upset if you cross him or disagree with him. here's the problem, when you say the press is the enemy of the people, you're losing a lot of white middle-class women voters. >> how does that work? >> they tune out. okay, i'm trying to teach my kids about anti-bullying, the constitution and classic social studies. you can't be saying things like that. when you call rex tillerson dumb as a rock and he's done it twice now on twitter. >> is anything sacred for this guy? what does he hold true except for his family? >> i don't know what you mean exactly. >> truth. >> the president is capable of going after anybody and anything. and so that puts fear -- >> what will he defend? what will he defend? the constitution? >> what i like about donny is he's fearless. >> by the way, tweeting about it is the best thing he could do for me. i never thought he would reach out because he knows how good it is for me and he dislikes me

that much. >> he wants the praise of the establishment and "the new york times." >> it doesn't make sense, he's got that 40% -- what i cannot understand from the day he won the election. if he just did a little pivot he would have 55%. it's almost sick that he wouldn't do that. >> here is my dream -- not dream, nightmare. >> that he does. >> two weeks before the democrats make their move, could be elizabeth warren, biden, i don't know who it's going to be. maybe buttigieg, who knows. he'll become that guy. >> i said on my show. >> the minute he knows who the target is, trash them for a couple of months and go quiet and be a gentleman. >> i had a segment called "beware of the trump pivot." he is such a transactionalist and no ideology. >> can he do it? >> at the end of the day it's about survival. if he doesn't, to be honest, if he's running against a biden/harris ticket and they don't stumble over themselves he will do the math and make that pivot. >> you're making an assumption about the brains of the democratic party. do you think the democrats are

smart enough to put that ticket together? do you? >> not enough money -- >> that ticket maybe sense. >> i think that's the obvious ticket. remember about vice president biden he has a very high floor, chris. 25 people in the race, maybe his floor is 18 to 20. i don't see his floor going to 9 or so. >> chris, you and i both know this. people like elizabeth warren are incredibly impressive. she loses 48 states. >> i don't know. >> i hear polls she's even with trump in texas. come on. who are you kidding? >> i'm covering this thing -- >> the state of the union address -- >> camilkamala would help the t in pennsylvania and not hurt it. >> that's the ticket. >> listen, he is capable of doing that pivot. the state of the union address is the perfect example of that. >> did you ever see him go presidential for two weeks? >> not two weeks, but the state of the union address, he had a six-point rise in his approval ratings. if he acted like in the state of the union address every single day -- >> we know that's not -- >> let's see how good you guys are. you especially on this question.

i have a hunch that the people who watched all the ceremony over in england are the people that go to the supermarket every week and see all the stuff about meghan and kate and read it and they like it. the royal family looks great. they're glamorous. his hanging around with them for a couple of days, especially queen, and before that the emperor of japan has helped his status. >> no question. >> i think he's going to be high in the 40s next week. >> i think it's helped him. >> despite all the other status. >> for him, it was what he said it was. i'm setting my family up to meet the next generation. he genuine believes. >> he is a romanof. up in the high 40s next week? >> i don't think it helps him that much. >> we have him at 46. >> i think people can separate the two. >> i think he goes to the high 40s. i think it's a combination of things, but also the tariff wrap up with mexico is actually helping him. >> oh, i think it's helping him. >> we may disagree with the strategy and tactics. >> that's what you're going to say. i couldn't get the wall but look

what i got here. we stopped the asylum seekers. thank you, donny deutsch, anthony scaramucci. catch donny's show, "saturday night politics," great name, by the way. it's pretty basic, it's on saturday and it's about politics. saturday at 8:00 p.m. our weekends are booming. up next, presidential candidate senator cory booker joins us with key takeaways out of a new presidential poll in iowa and much more. we've got him on. also got the mayor of new york coming on. you're watching "hardball." all. and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life. ♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today.

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our strength as a party comes from the grassroots. our party does not need a savior. we need each other. i'm running for president because beating donald trump is not enough. we must have bigger aspirations and bolder dreams than just that. beating donald trump is the

floor, it is not the ceiling. >> well, welcome back to "hardball." that was new jersey senator and 2020 democratic hopeful cory booker out in iowa this weekend where he and 18 of his fellow democrats were making their case in a crucial first contest coming up next february on 2020. booker was one of the first candidates to build up his presence there, according to the a.p., the associated press, "with at least 50 staffers on the ground, booker's iowa team is widely seen inside iowa as one of the strongest and most seasoned behind only massachusetts senator elizabeth warren's in numbers." joining me right now is senator cory booker of new jersey. thank you for coming on, senator. when you took that comment there about how it's not enough to beat trump. that sounded like a shot at vice president biden. >> no, i've been saying it since i got in. i got into this race -- >> who are you talking about if not him? >> this is the theme of my campaign since he kicked it off. look, i live in a low-income neighborhood, below the poverty line, we don't confuse weathlth

with worth in my neighborhood. we've got a lot of challenges going on long before donald trump was in office. from shootings on my block all the way to kids in my city who drink bottles of water because they have lead in their water. so many of the challenges we face, stripping the dignity away from work, attacks on women, this stuff was going on before donald trump was elected. we need to get rid of him. as i said in my speech, that gets us out of the valley but not to the mountain top where we need to go. >> who would that candidate be? you're singling in the -- centering in on someone. mathematical question, the sufficiency question or the necessary condition? the necessary condition is beating trump. then you'd like to do something better, but don't you first have to beat him? isn't that the most important goal, beat trump and do something good afterwards? >> well, you and i are pretty much saying the same thing. i just want to say the way you beat him is not just tactically focussing in on him. we cannot run this race about

what we're against, we have to run this race by what we're for. that's going to inspire people. that's going to energize folks. the tactics of just beating him, i'm sorry, he wants to make this all about him. he wants to suck all the oxygen again out of an election and he wants us to fight him on his turf and his terms. i know this from going up against tough candidates before. i had to beat a machine to become the mayor of the city of newark. the way you beat someone that is using kind of tactics like that is to inspire people about what politics should be about, the best of who we are. >> well, you're good at that. i think you're great and i loved meeting you out there. i think you're going to be a great candidate. i don't know why you haven't gotten traction yet. do you have a sense that will come? you're at about 1% in iowa now. when do you think you're going to get your kick? >> well, you said at the open, everybody in iowa tells me we're doing all the right things in terms of focussing first on building your team and your organization. we've got the best team out there. we're one of the leaders in

endorsements from iowans in the legislature. iowans who are lawmakers. from city council people to mayors. we're making our connections, building this brick by brick. you know this. we're eight months out. the polls in previous presidential campaigns don't necessarily predict the winner out of iowa. we're going to win in iowa because we're building this from the grassroots up. >> you know, when i was up in pennsylvania a couple of weeks ago, we had a town meeting. we called it "the deciders," a bunch of people from different points of view. i asked them gut questions. do you trust the democrats to stop or slow illegal immigration from across the border? they all said no. isn't that a problem for the democrats? trump is pushing this stuff with the tariffs on asylum seekers and whether it's a mixed bag of success or success or not, it's something. what will the democrats do if they have power to stop illegal immigration or slow it down? what would they do? >> right. well, the best indication of that is to see what the senate did right before i got there. incredible group of people, gang of eight, on both sides of the aisle who understood we were hurting ourselves as a nation of

immigrants by not keeping that truth real and that we had to do things to protect our borders. they actually put forth a piece of legislation that actualliy passed through our senate that not only would have put more protection on the border, but given people pathways to citizenship and would have helped our economy. the congressional budget office -- >> it would have stopped illegal hiring, too. i love that bill. by the way, ted kennedy was wind it. >> yes. >> even lindsey graham was behind it. >> chuck schumer was behind it. >> yes. >> i wish the diplomats wouemoc follow through on it. i have to ask you about impeachment. you're very strong on it. we just had a congressman on not for impeachment. there are only 60 democrats in the house who want to do it. it seems to me they've got to make a decision. they do slow-mo, get around to have more hearings, investigations, i have a sense it's one of these gut decisions, you either do it or you don't? what's your thinking? >> well, my gut changed. i have to say when you have a president that is not even allowing congressional

investigations to happen, i mean, he is flounting the law. he is basically saying more like an authoritarian leader "i am subject to no oversight. not the checks and balances of the constitution." i literally had a heart-to-heart with my own team in the senate office and said how is history going to look back on this? >> i agree with you. >> when a president was willing to violate the mandates of the constitution, subject himself to checks and not allowing subpoenas. not allowing interviews. i'm sorry, forget about the politics of the situation. what will history say when we have a president who acted in such an authoritarian fashion. we should begin impeachment proceedings to have even more legal leverage to actually provide the oversight that is congress' job. we'll see what that leads to. >> senator, you say all the right things to me, at least. i hope you do well in this election. running for president of the united states. senator cory booker of new jersey. up next, yet another candidate. new york city mayor bill de blasio is here. i'm going to ask him what it's like running for president while running the city that never

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this is the tricky thing about having a real job. joe biden doesn't have a job right now. some of these guys are senators, which means they miss a few votes. at the end of four years or so, nobody really counts one or two votes. you're mayor of new york during a snowstorm, during a tragedy like today. you must have been glad as heck you were home because you were home. >> let me tell you, when you're chief executive of the nation's biggest city, and a lot of people call this job is the second toughest job in america, there is a lot to take care of. our firefighters did an amazing job fighting that fire 50 stories up and made sure everyone was safe. >> you have to be on the corner. you look the the police commissioner and fire commissioner. they're all supposed to be there where you can see them if something goes bad. >> that's leadership. that's what you want in someone who would be president. a reporter asked me aren't you busy, don't you have a lot of responsibility and a lot on your plate? do you want to somebody to be president who is not busy? >> what if you're out of town? >> you got to come back and deal

with it. >> let me ask you about the guy that is running. big polls coming out of iowa. i'll talk about it in the next segment. biden's ahead but he's fading. elizabeth's coming on strong. buttigieg is coming on strong. why is buttigieg from a town as big as south bend, okay, known for notre dame primarily, getting all this attention. >> look, it's eight months out. >> you're the mayor of the most important city of the world, you can say. >> eight months out. i'm going to talk to people in iowa and around the country what we've done. we've put working people first. prepre-k. paid sick leave for working people who had to choose between a day's pay. >> who payed to that pre-k? >> it was a combination of state funds and city funds. i had to go and fight and get a republican state senate to agree to it. we built so much energy on the ground, chris, people were demanding it. across all demographics, they were demanding pre-k because we made it a center piece of my campaign. anybody who doesn't have health

insurance in new york city they get a card, they get a primary care doctor assigned to them. these are the kinds of things if done across the country would change the lives of the american people. >> why is a moderate like biden leading and not a progressive like you? >> i think the ball game's just begun. i think a progressive's going to be nominated. i'll tell you something, when i talk to iowans and people all over the country, they want us to discuss very bluntly, and this is an issue i think joe biden's not well-positioned on, very blujt whatntly what's happn our economy. i say there is plenty of money in this world, there is plenty of money in this country, it's just in the wrong hands. i say it bluntly. i'm telling you, chris, audiences -- >> the other side is also blunt and saying these can't be afforded. they're not affordable. the taxpayer won't back them. that's what the moderates are saying. >> i believe moderates may think that. i'll tell you what working people think. every demographic, all four early states, i say the money is in the wrong hands, people applaud with energy because they want to be -- have a real conversation. this country is not fair right

now. it's not fair for working people. it's not working for working people. they want something different. >> would you back biden with enthusiasm if he were the nominee? >> look, if joe biden is the nominee, i will definitely work hard for him, just like i think he'd work hard for me. i think democrats will be unified. i got to tell you something. here's what i worry about. donald trump can win if we repeat the 2016 mistake, which is not to not have a clear progressive economic message. in a place like iowa, that's how you lose iowa. >> you know what's interesting about this whole thing? is that bernie sanders, who is not a member of the democratic party, has never ran on the democratic ticket, has refused to run on the ticket for years, ran against the democratic party in vermont his whole career, he might win the nomination. would you support him if he doesn't join the party? >> yeah, i think the world of bernie sanders. >> yeah, i know. >> and if bernie is our nominee, i'll work very hard for him. same thing, if i'm the nominee, he'll work hard for me. i think we're going to be unified, but if we're unified with the wrong message, we could easily lose. >> what's the wrong message? >>, quote, unquote, moderation

for the sake of moderation. the fear of having a clear, blunt argument for working people. i think what a lot of democrats did is became the party of the elite. >> i know that. >> that's why we lost a lot of voters to the trump. >> they thought there was a party going on and they weren't invited. >> exactly. >> i think that's what they looked at. >> you talk about labor unions, by the way, a lot of trump voters are union members. when you talk about what working people need. >> yeah. >> people respond to that. we got to be that party again. our coalition used to be an urban coalition. >> what's more important, economic issues or social issues? >> economic issues. >> thank you. good answer. that's what they said out in pennsylvania. mayor de blasio. >> good to see you, chris. >> i love your city. up next, what the latest poll out of iowa tells us about where the 2020 race is headed. i got my predictions coming up. you're watching "hardball." if you have moderate to severe psoriasis

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i have a few thoughts tonight about that new poll by "the des moines register." it shows senator elizabeth warren in a rapid rise in iowa. she was 9% in the same poll in march and now she's at 15. a six-point jump in three months out in iowa. mayor pete buttigieg has made an even bigger jump from 1% to 14% in three months, a 13-point climb. meanwhile, the two candidates dropping are former vice president joe biden, who was at 27% and is now down to 24%, and senator bernie sanders, who dropped from 25 in march to 16, a nine-point drop. where is this headed? it shows that warren is about toe overtake sanders on the

progressive left. if she keeps up her strong campaigning, hitting hard and offering strong policy positions, she could be the top contender come caucus time in february. there is simply no other way to read this. caucuses are home fields to progressives and she's got the momentum to be the number one progressive when the time comes. buttigieg, whom we hosted that town hall meeting in fresno, california last week, also has a clear shot in the iowa caucuses right now. he's come out of nowhere and is not going back to nowhere. he looks to be the sleeper in this nomination fight the candidate that everyone agrees a long shot but somehow wins. remember jimmy carter? jimmy who? he ended up beating all the big names and wound up being elected. joe biden faces serious challenges here in iowa. he can ride at or near the top in the national polls, but history shows all that doesn't matter very much. all that changes once the caucuses vote and are counted in iowa. what impresses me about warren's and buttigieg's rise is it matches the word of mouth. everybody's been talking about what a strong race she's running

and how impressive the south bend mayor has been. this tells me that the conversations here on this show and among people who watch "hardball" are remarkably in sync with the larger conversation among democrats likely to decide the early contests starting very much with iowa. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with ali velshi, in for chris hayes, starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> you're here to provide historical context. >> exactly. >> and throughout history you accuse presidents of acting like richard nixon and you make money off it, right? >> not all presidents, no. those who do act like him, i point it out. >> democrats endeavor to educate america on the mueller report. >> i do think it was worse than watergate. i think this president worked with russia. >> tonight, as the justice department begins to comply with subpoenas, what we learned today from the mueller report hearing. >> this report has not been widely read in the united states. it the not even been widely read