let's see what happens. that wraps up the hour for me. i'll see you back at tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern, all in with chris hayes. you can find me on social media, twitter, facebook, instagram, snapchat and linkedin. thank you for watching. deadline white house with nicolle wallace starts now. >> hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. it's not quite the thrilla in manila but it might be the closest thing we've seen to a general preview of the 2020 contest to date. joe biden who inhabits every square inch of real estate under donald trump's skin is in iowa today where he's calling donald trump an existential threat to america. >> this is a guy who does everything to separate and frighten people. it's about fear and loathing. he calls people the names he calls them. no president has done something

like that, for god's sake. it's bizarre, and it's damaging. so i think he's genuinely a threat to our core values, and he's a threat to our standing in the world. >> i believe the president is literally an existential threat to america. >> also in iowa today, donald trump, who according to brand-new "new york times" reporting told his aides to lie about internal polls that show him losing to biden. it's a face-off that focuses on the stakes in 2020 and the low road the president plans to travel. here he is attacking one of his potential opponents today. >> i heard biden, who is a loser. look, joe never got more than 1%, except obama took him off the trash heap. look, when a man has to mention my name 76 times in a speech, that means in trouble. when he mentions my name that many times, i guess i should be

complimented. he's the weakest memorially. i like running against people weak mentally. i call him 1% joe. until obama came along, he didn't do very well. look, i don't bring him up -- >> i don't bring him up, because i'm not weak up here. from the "new york times" reporting about trump's biden fixation. late at night using his old personal cell phone number, president trump has been calling former advisers who have not heard from him in years eager to discuss his standings in the polls against top democrats in the field, specifically joe biden, whom he describes in those conversations as too old and not as popular and people think. after being briefed on the devastating 17-state poll conducted by his campaign pollster, mr. trump told aides to deny his internal polling showed him trailing mr. biden in many of the states he needs to win. now, here is some of the battle ground polls that may have given trump a scare. biden up 12 in latest michigan poll, up 11 in pennsylvania.

even in texas joe biden is beating trump by 4 points. in a new quinnipiac poll shows biden beating trump by 13 points nationally. that is where we start today with make of our favorite reporters and friends. the host of saturday night politics here on msnbc donny deutsch. he occupies a little bit of space inside trump's head, too, these days. real clear politics a.b. stoddard and reverend al sharpton, president of the national action network. joining us from "politico" senior washington coordinator anna palmer and white house coordinator for "l. a. times" ely joins us. you are the king of trump tells. en wo of the things he does when he's really afraid of someone damaging him politically or someone getting into his ego space, which is vast, is he projects onto them his own insecurity. this dig about his mental capacity was startling even for

me. >> well, the projection, we can leave that to psychologists but clearly joe biden is in the president's head. he's in it for the polling, because this is a president who reacts to what he's seeing in the news. he's seeing a lot of coverage of joe biden and hypothetical matchups. the fact is joe biden is not the only person those quinnipiac polls show beating trump in head-to-head matchups. there are six democrats who would gebeat him in nationwide head 20 head. biden wants that, the surest nominee, surest chance for democrats to beat donald trump. he wants to be above the democratic fray. you see how easy it is for him sort of goad trump into solidifying that for folks. the biden campaign releases excerpts of the speech talking about the president as an existential crisis. a couple hours later, just like that, there's the president on

the south lawn before departure going on about biden and sort of helping people see that biden versus trump matchup. it seems pretty obvious that's what joe biden wants the democratic primary voters to focus on, and the president seems pretty focused on it as well. >> anna palmer, there are two tracks on which joe biden is being judged. i think voters are responding very favorably to the "full frontal" attack on donald trump's lack of cashing, his lack of decency and the debasement of the office of presidency. i think democratic activists and more partisan journalists and pundits are scrubbing the entire sort of record of public service. but today's performance seemed likely to strengthen his standing among the democratic base and really help him secure what is a sizable lead in every single poll i've seen. >> i think it comes off of a pretty bad couple of days for joe biden where he flip-flopped on the hyde amendment. now you see him in the way most

democrats don't do. they are often reacting to the president. joe biden is taking the fight to donald trump, and i think he likes to be in offense against it. he's trying to remind people of the general election. it's going to be curious, how does it play with those partisans you're talking about. the left that really wants -- where the purity test, biden doesn't fit a lot of where the democratic party is and where the base is so how can he straddle those issues, fighting against trump but getting much excited boutd him about him in y primary states. >> one of the most disturbing things, especially for people like me, is how negative some of the coverage is about biden inside the beltway and how positive the feelings are about biden outside the beltway. >> it's an incredible disconnect. there's a lot of conversation about whether will democrats on twitter -- if twitter represents democratic party or actually

completely different party. vice president biden is making the bet that it's a different party. he's certainly been in the party a long time. he speaks to voters in the party that the super progressives don't ever talk to. so it really is an interesting game he's playing. i think a lot of the progre progressives and leftists say very risky to run a general election campaign. you know what he said not so sul subtly today, president trump isn't afraid of elizabeth warren he's afraid of me. he created a self-enforcing loop where he shows the voters this is how we beat donald trump next year and it worked like a charm today. >> i agree. i think, first of all, donald trump is as transparent as you can get in terms of what he projects. here is a man who just a couple weeks ago described himself as a genius and now he's talking about somebody else's intellect. who calls themselves a genius.

he's a man getting ready to celebrate his 73rd birthday. so he's got age in his mind which is why he puts that on joe biden. those that have watched trump for years know he's really hurting now. the poll numbers drove him crazy, and he's now calling old friends. you don't call old friends and start calling people dumb and all of that if, in fact, you're not really rattled. so i think that for many people, the comments by the president showed whether you're going to vote for biden or not. he can rattle this guy. the other thing i think a.b. brought up you need to bring the next step, if you look at the polls, a lot of the progressive, those on the left of center, people like me, you have more than one candidate. so a lot of that vote is going to be split. if joe biden is the only centrist in double digits, he's playing to a solid base that does not have other alternatives

unless you go down below 5%. he's going to iowa talking about ex stepgs threat with trade wars, talking to people that means something in iowa. the tone he into in i think was right. sometimes people worry about him getting off beat, he spoke in a very direct way but did it where he was not looking like he was off the rails. >> donny, i get this feeling, democrats loathe a coronation, republicans loathed it, too. that's why jeb bush was one and done, out. i think american voters loathe the idea that anyone sort of traipses in and thinks they are entitled. biden has to prove himself every day on the campaign trail. here he is with a protester today. i want you to evaluate this performance. >> no, that's okay. no, no, no. this is not a trump rally. let them go. let them go.

[ applause ] >> shhh, shhh. if you hush up i'll answer your question. if i answer your question, will you let me go onto other things? no, that's okay. look, i'll tell you what, i promise i'll answer your question. come on up. come on over here and we'll do it after this is over. i promise i'll sit with you. okay? >> so smart political strategist named david axelrod gave an evaluation after 2008 elections and said every election is a reaction to the presidency before it. if you want to react to the campaign before it, responding to a protesters by hugging it out literally and figuratively is the exact opposite of what trump does, who says i miss the day we roughed up protesters.

why can't we rough them up. i'm against coronations. i will vote for any of the candidates vehicle but biden gets brutalized on democratic twitter and by a lot of activists, had a good outing today. >> he's "pitch perfecpitch perf. he's not acting as far as i'm entitled. he's feeling a need. he's understanding emotionally all the entire -- this side, we've got to beat trump. it's emotional, unnerve. even his tone when trump did something tweeting, instead of going presidential tweets -- he's like, come on, that's not what presidents do. there's a comfort, a confidence. you saw it handling the heckler. going back to the two issues as far as issues coming after him. the hyde event two days ago, his entire thing, i've grown, i've changed my mind. the crime bill, 20 years of

experience shows you. he's going to get that teflon pass on every issue. >> we'll see. the voters still decide. >> i believe that and the polls continue to show it. he at the end of the day has a strength and gravitas and a calm and a confidence that is the complete, complete antidote -- a great advertising analogy. whenever i have a client and we would push them, do an edgy car campaign, show rocks and trees. to get them back, show them, a car footage ad. trump is the safe -- biden, he's the comfort flood. he's the running footage ad people want after the outrageous ad. >> i want to get you back in on some of the reporting about the trump candidacy. i'm sure you weren't surprised by this. i found it a shocking degree of granular reporting how trump is approaching his real life. "times" reporting, he's insisting on final approval over

the songs on his campaign playlist as well as campaign merchandise. that would be hats and t-shirts. but he's never asked to see a budget on 2016. i worked on three presidential campaigns. when you're the president, you have an opposite window into your candidacy -- normal presidents. i know this isn't one. you whatnot to know the big them act -- thematics, when to start juggling with more political activity. donald trump wants to pick the songs and hats. >> he's interested in the granular level of the message and branding. we heard him talk to audience, break the fourth wall and ask them what his re-election slogan should be. should it be make america great again or keep america great. he's basically talking about the tension for running re-election on the grievance-based message that got him elected.

he's been president already. can you claim success and claim everything is terrible at once. that's the tension in a re-election campaign for a president. yes, he is interested in sort of market testing and focus grouping everything whether it's with former advisers or whether with the audience he's talking to at a rally. that's always been his style. it's one of those things that he's actually really good at is figuring out -- reading the room, getting the reaction, and trying to find that sweet-spot in terms of setting a message. as far as the more important substantial policy details, his bet has always been that voters don't really care about that. they don't appreciate that. they don't make decisions based on that. they make it based on a feeling and that's the way he's always tried to connect with people. >> anna, we cheer when you and eli get information like this and put it out to fans and readers. there's a leak, pretty sensitive information about the infancy of

donald trump's election strategy. none of it makes donald trump look good. it's disparaging, the internal polls, we don't know internal or proprietary and the president's own focus in terms of his political vulnerabilities. he's clearly afraid of joe biden and not interested in a budget. what is this coverage, if we take a step back, say to you about the mind-set of people close to him and ostensibly supporting his election endeavor. >> as you well know leaks happen for a variety of reasons. i think in some of these cases it's people running the campaign trying to shake loose or shake up this president and say we need to focus here. we need to have a message. we need to think about how you're going to juggle the presidency and election. there's certainly those kinds of leaks come from those issues. i'm hearing from a lot of people there's concern around who the president take this seriously as

he needs to. you look at polls coming up, early, small polls, particularly michigan one. they are disconcerting what's happening in texas and other states. just to make sure the president is paying attention to this, for the last months has been focused on robert mueller and that investigation and not necessarily what's happening on the ground in key states. >> the dysfunction, no one feels like, can your top adviser sit with you in the residence for an hour after dinner and talk to you? the only way they know to communicate with him is through leaks in the press. >> it's amazing. we know the reporting from the end of the 2016 campaign, they thought the pr pitch would end as he planned, in defeat, where he would have new deals and new notoriety and a huge microphone. they were all basically around him in a sickle calling the world to say it wasn't me, it wasn't me, it wasn't me. >> that's right. >> basically what you have is a leak out of the embryonic 2020

campaign saying it's not us, it's not us, it's not us. he can't focus. he only focuses on certain things. he fights. he's not trying to persuade voters, only mobilize the ones who are mad. it's just such a sign they don't have a cohesive plans. we've seen polls. maybe they have internal ones. we can see public ones. they look terrible in the rust belt states he needs to hold onto. it's already kind of if this goes off the rails, they would like more jobs. if he goes down in defeat, people need to know it's because of him. >> it is amazing. it is amazing anyone thinks he would change at this point. i imagine -- you both knew him before he was president. i imagine he's the same person you knew. i remember covering both the primary and general elections saying why can't you get him to read three books. i sent over a book list to someone advising him. they laughed. they said donald trump doesn't read. it's amazing, though, that there was nothing about the presidency

that crystallized the capacity. >> i doubt he read the book list much less the book. >> correct. >> i think you have to deal with the fact that he ran on obama was no good, hillary is a crook. he doesn't have a theme when he was running, he had a slogan, make america great. no one knew what that meant. now you have to run for re-election. how do you justify whatever you did in those four years, particularly when you're talking to people that did not get what you promised. everyone wants to know who the leaks are. i feel sorry for whoever bret him those polls. he's like the wicked witch of the west in "the wizard of oz," please don't bring me no bad news. i feel sorry for the person who has to give him that. >> i want to give the democrats a warning before everybody starts taking victory laps. there's something very different with donald trump polling than other candidates. i believe there's a group of people, no the as much that

would make a difference in the polls, to trump, he's a guilty pleasure. they won't admit it in polls. we saw it the first time, we're going to see it again. when you see left wing candidates like bernie sanders and elizabeth warren beating trump in texas. no. i don't care what that poll says, that's not true. number two, as far as him changing, i know this is going to sound insane, one thing he cannot change about is his ability to survive and his meeti megalo mania. he can't run on anything. he did a tax plan that didn't help people. can't run on immigration. it's gone backwards. i actually believe -- i know you think i'm crazy -- there will be trump pivoting next year. he's going to look at the math. at the end of the say he's a survivalist. i want the democrats to be prepared for that. he's going to soften and become a little bit more human and normal. remember i told you this. it seems completely

counter-intuitive. >> get me a breaking news ban are. >> what you normally say is let me push back. >> i'm going to come back out to the reporters. e eli, any indication he'll pivot and become more normal. >> i haven't seen one yet. i would say donny is right in cautions we are a long way from election day 2020. i think what you're seeing in the president going after joe biden the way he has recently, he's hungry for a one-on-one matchup. right now he doesn't know who to go after. the democrats don't have their nominee. when you talk to folks around the president's campaign, they say, yeah, we're not in good shape now but we feel like this president is really good at taking his opponent apart. they think once the democrats have a nominee, becomes clear, the president will be able to focus more on that person and probably not in a pivot to a nicer posture but to a tougher, you know, go for the jugular type of posture that we've seen from him and that we've seen be

successful for him. >> i don't mean nice but more moderate, that's what i was talking about. never be human. >> let me give you the last word. >> i think we've seen trump try particularly on immigration pivot to the softer side of that reform and it lasted maybe half a day to a day. >> like one tweet, right, until ann coulter saw it. >> i think it's going to be a short-lived strategy. i'm with eli, i think the president does do well when he has somebody to fight against. he's very happy to be on offense. once he has that candidate, something he can pin the hopes of his candidacy on, i think you'll see him go very aggressive against that person. >> thank you so much for starting us off. after the break, joe biden may be on offense against donald trump, he's also on defense against the rest of the democratic field. we'll go deeper in that democratic primary and look at who is generating the most enthusiasm among black voters.

ahead, joyce vance takes congress to school and schools some republicans while she's at it. we'll bring you highlights from obstruction hearings. jon stewart is known the world over for his humor and intelligence but today he was deadly serious calling congress out for failing the men and women who responded to 9/11. all those stories coming up. 9/. all those stories coming up. ♪ i want it that way... i can't believe it. that karl brought his karaoke machine? ♪ ain't nothing but a heartache... ♪ no, i can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on my car insurance with geico. ♪ i never wanna hear you say... ♪ no, kevin... no, kevin! believe it! geico could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. here's how to enjoy our huge aussie steakhouse dinner. first, get your choice of soup or salad. then choose an entrée like our center-cut sirloin. add not one, but two amazing sides.

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on donald trump and on their partied front-runner. today mayor pete attacking from higher grund as trump and biden battle it out in the trenches. here is mayor pete buttigieg. >> so faced with this moment of enormous challenge and great possibility, it is not enough just to say we won't conduct foreign policy by tweet. nor would it be honest to promise to restore an old order that can't in any case meet the realities of a new moment. democrats can no longer turn the clock back to the 1990s than republicans can return us to the 1950s and we shouldn't try. >> joining our conversation washington examiner columnist and republican pollster kristen anderson and "washington post" senator political reporter aaron blake is back. glad you're here. we're happy to have you. let me get your thoughts on this performance today from mayor pete. he got the optics right, he looked presidential.

>> he's wearing a jacket. >> maybe he could tell jim jordan what that's like. he seemed to get the mental right. >> for any folks polling in the high single digits. >> kamala is up. >> in national polls not as useful as places like iowa and new hampshire but the second tier of folks whether kamala harris, elizabeth warren, pete buttigieg, they are in an interesting place. on the one hand you want to show you can take on donald trump. you want to show you're up to the task presenting that contrast you can win over swing voters as well as doing what the base needs. at the same time it's almost felt like in the democratic primary the gloves haven't come off. everyone is kind of playing nice with one another. they are occasionally do things stepping outside the zone. you had medicare convention, medicare for all not right. testing the waters. with mayor pete, his mentality and overall vibe is somebody who wants to be presidential and the

idea let's step back from what felt like a crazy and chaotic last couple of years, presenting temperamental contrast with trump as well saying i would be a fresh face. he has a lot of things working for him if he can convince enough democratic voters he can stand up to trump in a general. >> aaron blake, he is rising in the polls as a person who at the moment represents the fewest constituents. he's had a meteoric rise. i think he's number four. he's made all of the cutoffs. he leapfrogged ahead of people who have been on the scene longer. it would seem to me that it's sort of his artfulness with words. he said over the weekend basically that normal was broken, that a return to normal is no longer achievable because normal has been broken. it seems like a veiled contrast to joe biden as well. >> yeah. i think if you look at a lot of what he said in his speech today, a lot of it was, of

course, referring to past politicians, referring to president trump. you can also in fer differences when it comes to joe biden, for instance, voting for the iraq war, which is not something that we've talked about a whole lot. i think this is a really interesting speech because you talked about how pete buttigieg has risen up in the polls early on and maybe leveled off a little bit but really kind of sticking up in the high single digits, really a presence in this race so far. he's done that largely without addressing this side of his biography, the side of him that actually has a very detailed foreign policy platform that he talked about a lot today. i think this kind of speech today, what we saw was going at maybe one of his biggest vulnerabilities here, which is, is this going to be a guy in his mid, late 30s who can go toe-to-toe with the president, be formidable in that election. to the extent he can make this kind of compelling case about foreign policy, about when we go

to war and when we don't, i think that speaks to his formidable news as a policy maker and not just a young guy getting people interested in the fact he can speak norwegian. >> blake, i have a follow-up for you. i think it's challenging to get too far to trump's left on national security. donald trump is this pizza ar, autocratic loving peace monger ally hating freak of nature in terms of a foreign policy view. he totally confound foreign policy establishment, his recklessness on twitter and affection towards dictators like kim jong-un and bad actors like putin. he's partnered with his own national security adviser on any sort of military confrontation with iran and undermined his sitting defense secretary jim mattis on staying in syria.

so i think what you're seeing about buttigieg could turn out to be extreme, extremely important and significant advantage that he has, if he can execute what he laid out today. >> yeah. donald trump is very good at taking all positions on a given issue but he's especially good at doing that when it comes to foreign policy. he ran as this noninterventionist very much opposed to the iraq war. he started his presidency by talking about fire and fury in north korea and now he's really backed off and is talking about beautiful letters kim jong-un is sending him. on the other side he's using much of the same rhetoric when it comes to iran talking about the possibility of a conflict there. democrats don't know what foreign policy trump they are going to run against. the american people might not know what foreign policy trump is running in 2020. to the extent they put up somebody who can talk about issues authoritatively and joe biden can speak to some of these

issues authoritatively, too, that could be a strength for buttigieg going forward. >> to widen the conversation about the opportunity all democrats have, quinnipiac numbers head-to-head biden up 13 against trump, sanders up 9, harris up 8, warren up 7, booker up 5. it's wide open. they all look. again, you're right to say they don't mean anything as it nears. in the early stages, this is almost like generic ballot polling. every democrat, at least is, more popular than donald trump. >> good news for them and bad news for president trump. as we said it's early. really predebates have no idea who will break out of the massive pool of zero percent. it's only 8 out of 23 polling in the material zone. i think bouuttigieg stands out

because he's the only one nobody knew that has risen up. he's consistently at 4. he's been at 3 a lot. i think the reason is what you were talking about at the start of the show, we revert to the opposi opposite. a terrible deficit. voters who love biden and buttigieg don't care how many white papers they have. they think they are able and decent. he's going to have a great debate. there's no question he's going to have a great debate. others are hoping on that chart they are going to have a great debate and they are going to best pete buttigieg. i think what we heard from him so interesting this week both in iowa and today, he's definitely decided i am not going to ever get chosen as vp. i'm running from this or running another time. he's separating himself from biden for months he refused to do and that's the new departure. >> he has what nobody has is the future, open future. every other candidate -- >> beto has that. >> he doesn't have the stuff

inside. when you look at his pedigree, veterans, afghan war, rhodes scholar, harvard, so quick on his feet. you can asisign a lot to him. newspaper of the other candidates have that. you bring up a good point. there's a strength, a quiet strength. he's going to be standing for a long time. >> the quiet strength i think it's important because when we first were introduced to the name and the headline, first openly gay candidate, he did not come off like what we were used to or expecting. when i brought him to harlem to that restaurant, sylvia's, i was impressed that he was self-assured, comfortable in his own skin, and really knew what he was talking about. i think that a lot of his traction is him. that's who he is. i think people realize he's not acting. i think the other part of that that works for him is that he

can talk specifics and you feel that he knows what he's speaking about, which is antithetical to the present president but also true of a lot of people on the field. you don't get the impression there's a war room behind him that's telling him what to say. >> not poll tested. >> one thing to bear in mind, if you look at poll numbers, a lot of matchups look pretty close. they were all telling a not great story for president trump. at the moment a lot of americans are getting to know the rest of the democratic field. whenever you have a campaign, is it a referendum or choice. is this a referendum on do you want four more years of trump or not. i suspect trump and his campaign are going to want it to be a choice, not just up or down on did you like the last four years or more. they are going to want to take whoever the democratic nominee and point out every possible way voters could not want him to be president. for folks like buttigieg, we have not seen the full force of

the republican machine or even really the machine of his democratic opponents turned on him yet. at the moment, a lot of these folks seem like they could be really great candidates. they have not been pressure tested yet. they have a long way to go. >> "snl" a good sign among biden among black voters, 76 biden, 64 sanders, harris 53, booker 43. >> achilles heel. when you look at biden, you look at women, he beats trump 62 to 20, by 40 points. even white men are tied at this point. every number is pointing. but once again it's early. trump is not beyond starting a war. i mean, you have to really -- >> i thought it was infrastructure. >> guys, you have to understand this is not real to him. this is not the normal chain of events.

buckle up. whatever you think is possible is possible. >> i totally agrees he's not above starting a war. but i think the thing in terms of black voters, two words, barack obama gives biden something that a lot of blacks feel this president was under attack for eight years, biden stood with him, he was loyal. i think it is going to be unreasonable to think a lot of people will not keep that identity. >> all right. when we come back, the brilliant and compelling joyce vance made waves on capitol hill yesterday. we'll talk to her about obstruction hearing before the house judiciary when we come back. g before the house judiciary when we come back

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just moments ago the house voted along party lines passing what's called a civil contempt resolution against attorney general barr and former white house counsel don mcgahn. it's a modest escalation for the house democrats and it means

they will now be able to go to court to enforce their subpoenas. several of those subpoenas are being ignored by members of donald trump's inner circle. that vote came after contentious hearing yesterday on capitol hill where members of the house judiciary committee got a taste of what we're lucky enough to enjoy on a regular basis, grit, smarts and ruthless devotion to the facts courtesy of joyce vance who is also an msnbc contributor. >> do you still believe there was collusion? >> so it's important to note, as mueller does -- >> it's a yes or no. i've got 2:45 left. >> there's a difference between conclusion -- >> the special counsel's team wasn't able to find collusion between the trump campaign and russia but apparently you did. >> so mueller in his report is careful to clarify he's not making any decision about collusion. that is a far cry from saying there was no evidence of collusion. there's abundant evidence of

collusion in this record. >> joyce vance joins us. joyce, i've got a question, if they are so sure their guy is not guilty of collusion, why are they so mad? >> they are awfully mad and they might want to talk a little about collusion but they certainly didn't want to discuss obstruction. >> why not? >> because the evidence is clear, the evidence is compelling and there's not a lot they can do with it. >> joyce, take me through whether or not the objective was yesterday and whether in your opinion it was met. >> it's a difficult question for this committee. how did they provide when the white house is trying to fight every effort by democrats to subpoena fact witnesses. yesterday they decided to go a different direction and have some experts talk about the legal context. what is the law, what do you have to prove, what evidence is in the mueller report, would it satisfy the standard. we know 1,000 former federal prosecutors have already signed

this letter saying they believe the president could be indicted for obstruction of justice. we put some flesh on those bones yesterday. >> i was happy to see you there, other our colleague barbara mcquaig was there. it's unclear why they had to assassinate your character if their guy was in the clear but whatever. you do you, jim jordan. i want to know why people like chris christie and cory lewandowski, with no claim aren't testifying on capitol hill. >> i have no insider knowledge but i suspect we're about to see that happen. it would be important for me as a prosecutor not to put a witness like chris christie on without knowing what he had already said to bob mueller. as of yesterday chairman nadler now has an agreement with the justice department that he can

obtain those underlying interviews. the fbi, form 302 that reflects what chris kiss achris christie have said in conversations with the mueller team. once you're prepared then you're prepared to call the witnesses and question them. >> there's news today donald trump jr. will be before closed doors meeting with senate intel committee. there was a political hull baloo after the cryptic explanation of what mueller dealt with when it came to junior. the mueller report describes their efforts to talk to him, and i think natalia vess veselnitskaya. what do you think he'll do tomorrow. >> a witness who took a privilege like the fifth, another was witnesses who lied to him.

another involving witnesses who did he tried information he wanted using apps and other mechanisms that destroyed that evidence. we don't know where trump jr. falls. but he's agreed there was a negotiation. the committee wanted to discuss ten topics with him. he agreed to discuss six. i suspect that will give them an opportunity to test whether he was truthful on his initial appearance with them. if they find he wasn't truthful, they can then refer to that to prosecutors. >> aarerin blake you've written lot at the effort to get to what went on with trump jr., anything with the intel committee. >> it's going to be a black box tomorrow. it's certainly a black box now. one thing i would add and i think is important richard burr, however much he inflamed republicans by issuing the subpoena and trying to bring

donald trump jr. back into the committee he said in interviews with "the washington post" he did not attempt to bring donald trump jr. back as an effort to essentially try and determine whether he committed personalry. that's always the biggest question here about why he's being brought back when he already talked to the committee. at least publicly that's what richard burr said. he said this was not about trying to reconcile donald trump jr.'s past statements. at the same time when you are in front of the committee, you do have to answer for the things that you've said before in light of new evidence. certainly that's going to be something that the members, especially on the democratic side of that committee, are going to try to get at to the extent they are allowed to under the rules they have agreed to. joyce talked about the six areas in which they have determined they can ask him questions about these things. we're not going to know what happens but certainly some interesting legal wrangling behind closed doors. >> nicole, your first minutes of the show are the perfect microcosm of the playbook,

instead of impeachment, trump saying they are trying though take your president. what did we have on the show. joe biden saying this is not presidential, trump acting goofy and backdrop, drum beat of the investigation with donald trump jr. you don't go to impeachment. there are 500 days to election. it's a long play. keep the drum beat. the backdrop always in the news is investigation, investigation, investigation. and then maybe at some point you pounce. but if you look at the way we covered stories today, if you had given trump that club of impeachment, if that was going on, none of this stuff would be making through. they are trying to take your president away, they are trying to take your president away. this is a backdrop he doesn't have an answer to. >> push back. >> i have to work so hard to get you to push back. it used to do easy. >> the only answer, it's not politically popular, i would program my show differently, if democrats think it's the right thing to do, they should do it

anyway. >> timing. keep laying it out. keep getting poll numbers to drop, to drop, to drop. keep getting people tired. if there is a time to do it -- >> you also have to enforce the law. >> nobody saying they aren't doing that. >> people send you to washington in 2018 to uphold the law and the integrity of the office, and there are clear violations, and there is evidence that there may be some violation of high crimes and misdemeanors, they have an obligation to live up -- >> if i'm a homicide detective and i know somebody killed somebody and i want to put them away. if i have enough to arrest him but mott enough to convict him, if i'm a smart homicide detective i'm going to wait until idle him. >> maybe. >> quote nicolle wallace, democrats should think about whether they want to elect trump, jim acosta in jail, would they think he waited too long.

i don't care if they impeach him or not, i want to know why bob mueller is not testifying on capitol hill. what i would like, just like jim jordan would like, bob mueller to come out and address what the attorney general told us about spying. he did not defend the department or colleague in front of bob mueller when he went on tv to contradict him a day after bob mueller into at the justice department. we have questions this man needs to answer. they are not about are you sending us a report, is this a roadmap for obstruction. there are tons of things beyond his findings. there's no excuse for him not to come. we're not getting any answers about that and i think it's really an abject horror. >> joyce vance, thank you for being on capitol hill. do you want the last wore word oppose that? i'll let you button that up for me. >> i look forward to the fact witnesses coming forward. that's where we need to go next. we've heard from prosecutors, we can hear more from prosecutors, i think we would like to know the facts. >> we're all saying the same

thing. when we come back jon stewart shames congress on an angry and emotional speech on behalf of the 9/11 responders. that story next. n behalf of the 9/11 responders. that story next.

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i know. are you in good hands? they responded in five seconds. they did their jobs. with courage, grace, tenacity, humili humility. 18 years later, do yours. >> it was vintage jon stewart. he's made a career at taking politicians to task. stewart was advocating for a bill that should be a no brainer. insuring a 9/11 victims compensation fund never runs out of money, adding fuel to an another emotional testimony, several of the subcommittee members were in and out of the hearing. two of them skipped it altogether. stewart erupted. >> behind me, a filled room of

9/11 first responders and in front of me, a nearly empty congress. sick and dying, they brought themselves down here to speak to no one. shameful. it's an embarrassment to the country and it is a stain on this institution. and you should be ashamed of yourselves, for those who aren't here, but you won't be because accountability doesn't appear to be something that occurs in this chamber. your indifference costs these men and women their most valuable commodity -- time. it's the one thing they're running out of.

this should be flipped. this hearing should be flipped. these men and women should be up on that stage and congress should be down here answering their questions. as to why this is so damn hard and takes so damn long and why, no matter what they get, something's always pulled back and they got to come back. >> well, he's right. and congress needs more of this. i will just say that the subcommittee hearing is not the full committee, so, it wasn't empty seats of what would have been 41, it's 14, but people coming and going certainly made a statement to the people who came, among the first responder population. thank god they have jon stewart and congress really needs to be faced with this kind of call for accountability and this kind of anger for people like them. more often, it is paralyzed.

it takes too long to do the right thing in many, many cases. and he's also right, he pointed out, this wasn't a natural disaster, didn't come out of nowhere. we've known year after year, 18 years later, these people still need help. >> there's one clip of him saying, you know how long it took the fire department to respond? five seconds. jon stewart is a great american. and there's something wrong with a country that guys that rushed into those buildings that we're not taking care of for life. there's just something wrong. >> rushed in, knowing they were facing danger. i'm a new yorker, i was here 18 years ago end and no one sent an email in saying, okay, blacks get out or latinos get out or gays get out. we all suffered that day and these first responders ran in danger's way for all of us. this shouldn't even be an issue. so, i give kudos to jon stewart, because i will argue against people that cross the line, like police or something, but those first responders stood up for all of us and we need to all stand up for them. >> they are literally the best

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in the palm of your hand. fordpass. built to keep you moving. i could talk to these friends forever, but we're out of time. my thanks to donnie, a.b., the rev al sharpton and aaron blake, and most of all, to you for watching. that's it for this hour. "mtp daily" starts right now with steve kornacki in for chuck. if it's tuesday, president trump and joe biden are on the attack against each other, trading very personal insults as they both stump in iowa, right now. this as a new poll shows biden leading the president by double digits nationwide. plus, the full house just voted to escalate democrats' fight again