did not here but i'm just going to send i little comment back to you, how much miami clearly agrees with you, my friend. you look great and we can tell you're enjoying your time out there. >> thank you. >> thank you and good day to all of you from msnbc headquarters in new york. it's high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." rising tensions making sense of claims and counterclaims as the u.s. blames iran for an attack on oil tankers in the middle east. where does the truth lie? about face on accepting foreign election help turn, we will examine the serious implications. debate expectations after the lineups are set. here what the candidates are saying and both nights could be critical for some contenders. four years after the escalator ride that changed america, why the president is rejecting the idea polls show him behind in 2020. but we begin with new warnings of potential military

conflict between iran and the u.s. as both sides escalate rhetoric following apparent attacks on two tankers. u.s. officials double down on ak zakss iran was behind the tanker incident adding new allegations if iranian proxies shot down a u.s. reaper drone, it's been done over the red sea there. iran continues to scale back their commitments under the 2015 nuclear deal and european governments are expressing fears of the potential for miscalculation, even if iran is found to have been behind the tanker incidents. a sentiment increasingly shared by american lawmakers. >> it is an act not of strength but of desperation. but here's what we cannot do, we cannot respond to that with a further military escalation because then what's going to happen is we're going to increase the likelihood of mistakes happening. we will increase the likelihood of an iranian soldier making a

mistake, and then we proceed down the course to war. >> nbc's courtney kube is joining us from doha. that was a sobering statement from congressman max rose. but right now there are accusations and counteraccusations. are we any closer to knowing the facts of exactly what happened in the persian gulf this week? >> we are, alex. remember when you have an attack like this, there's forensic evidence of who could be behind it. any shrapnel that could be left behind for the explosive. in this case the u.s. is saying these were himpette mines which are explosions generally placed at the waterline or just below the waterline on some kind of a boat. the japanese, who are -- one of the tankers was japanese flagged, they are saying it was not a mine that hit the tanker but some sort of projectile. that's the kind of thing that could be determined. they can also looj at the

shrapnel, whatever was left behind, and determine some kind of forensics of who might have made the explosive that could then trace it back to who might have placed it. the u.s. military put out video this week they say shows an iranian guard boat taking evidence away from the tankers. they're saying that's evidence iran was behind the attack. what the video does not show is anyone placing either of the mines, alex. >> absolutely. i have been wondering who in the world goes up to a ship with an unexploded mine and pulls that off? i mean, it didn't even seem to be that delicately handled. it's extraordinary, this video. >> i don't know if that's a job i would necessarily want, gathering up unexplode ordnance

off ashi ship. but that's what it shows. they are grainy though. it's still unclear whether these are mines that caused the explosion on the tankers. as of earlier today, one tanker was being held out sea. there were small iranian boats keeping the rescue tugboats from getting closer to it to try to tow it back into court. it's not clear whether that other tanker will make its way in some time today or tomorrow, alex. >> as you said, we have forensic evidence that can be examined certainly. cort courtney kube, thank you very much. we will speak to you next hour. now, marie, it's good to see you again. it's been a while. let's get right to your reaction. this is from secretary of state mike pompeo saying how he concluded iran is indeed

responsible for the tanker attacks. take a listen. >> the intelligence, weapons used, the level of expertise needed to execute the operation, recent similar iranian attacks on shipping and the fact no proxy group operating in the area has the resources to act in the area with such a high degree of sophistication. >> based on what he said do you think he has legitimate, unbiased intelligence that shows iran did it? >> alex, the truth is i don't know and one of the reasons i don't know is because secretary of state pompeo and president trump have at times, not just here in the united states, but about foreign affairs have not always told the truth. so iran certainly has the capability to do this. and iran is definitely a threat to the united states and our interests and our friends in the region. but part of the challenge is because of the trump administration's very aggressive rhetoric towards iran, to many people it looks like they're

looking for an excuse to escalate even further. and so in the absence of hard proof, there's a lot of pieces of information out there we don't have all of the facts yet. it's hard for other countries around the world or, quite frankly, americans to look at what the trump administration says and take them on their word. on so many issues, they haven't been completely honest. that's why the trust issue in a crisis like this, and god forbid we were in a worse crisis, that's why the trust issue is actually a really big problem for this administration when we're talking about issues of possible conflict or military action. >> when you look at the video -- granted courtney kube suggested it's not common we see this kind of video, but when you look at it, what do you think? what are you seeing? >> i think i see what all of us see, right, but it doesn't have definitive proof about who did it or why they did it. you have one story coming from the shipping company now, another story from the administration here in washington, you have another

story coming from the iranians. there's a lot we don't know. iran is a threat though. we should all be very clear about that. they certainly are able to do the kind of things we saw with the tanker this week but the challenge is if you take a step back and say what is the trump administration trying to do v z vis-a-vis iran? what is they're strategy? what are they trying to accomplish? it doesn't appear they have one. they walked away from iran without a strategy to not put something in place to not allow them to get a weapon. and now it feels like they're pushing intelligence past where maybe it actually is and they're looking for some sort of excuse to escalate further because they want a broader conflict with iran. it's real really hard not to view that video and everything we are hearing from pompeo in that larger frame. and i think that's important. >> i have to tell you, what you just said sent chills down my

spine, that they are looking for a reason -- they're pursuing a broader conflict with iran. are you kidding me? is there any positive outcome from something like that? >> the truth is no, we do not have to go to war with iran today. it sends chills down my spine too. the rhetoric i have seen coming out over the trump administration the last month feels so much like the lead up to the war in iraq. they're cheery picking intelligence, upping what they consider to be the threat. look, there is a real threat. i don't want to downplay that. but what worries me the most if the irans do something that is a provocation and we get into the situation where -- don't forget john bolton is still there and mike pompeo pushes trump to where he feels he cannot back down and then we're in a situation where, quite frankly, end really badly. there's no reason to go war with

iran today. we can counter them in many other ways. the trump administration doesn't seem to have a strategy to do that. that is scary to me. >> might some of this pin attributed to the fact the president pulled out of the nuclear deal? is there a correlation to what's happening with that? >> i think there is. and not just because i worked on that deal although i believe in and believe it's the right policy. when the president pulled on the iranian deal, without breaking the side with it, did it on his own, it set in motion a series of eska latory activities that i'm worried can lead to broader conflict. the relationship with iran is a sensitive one, tricky one. but it's important to imagine because they're a threat to us and because we have to maintain our vigilance and counter them in the ways that we can. by withdrawing from that deal we told iranians you can't trust the united states, we don't keep our word and we also took away

leverage from getting a nuclear weapon. look, they've done plenty of bad things, i'm not defending them, but by pulling out of that deal unilaterally, we split ourselves from our allies in europe. they want us to be in the deal. if we have to take military action, we need them by our sides. let me fell you the europeans do not trust the trump administration when it comes to iran. they just don't believe them. >> former defense secretary ashcart served -- you were with him under president obama, said the sanctions under iran are working. here's what he said -- >> what is good about the current moment is i think the iranians are feeling the pressure of sanctions. this may be the lash out on their part as a consequence. they're definite flily feeling pressure. and that's good for them. >> do you think that's right, the sanctions are working and that's a good thing?

>> they are feeling pressure, that's true. but because we pulled out of the deal by ourselves, the international sanctions we had in place in the obama administration, none of those came back on. so what really got iran to the negotiating table was u.s. sanctions plus international sanctions. only half of those were back in place. sanctions also are not a too in and of themselves. they're a means to an end. i don't know what the end game here is for the trump administration. you can put pressure on iran. we did that with sanctions. but it was to get to the goal of negotiating a deal that would prevent them from getting a nuclear weapon. they were not supposed to just be use to punish with no end game in sight. that's why the fact the trump administration on one hand seems to want regime change. on the other president trump seems convinced he doesn't love military conflict. i don't know what the end game here that these sanctions are driving for is aimed for. sanctions are a very good tool and can certainly put pressures on countries like iran but there has to be a purpose at the end

of the day. that's what concerns me, i just don't see one right now. >> marie, there have been reports that team obama, if you will, has told iran don't escalate, don't take trump's bait. do you know of any former obama administration officials who are quietly behind the scenes urging iran play it cool right now? and could it be they're pointing to 2020 and potential for democratic administration? >> i think there are a lot of people -- and some former officials have been public about this. also there are a lot of officials in europe and elsewhere encouraging iran not to take the trump administration's bait, not to escalate and not break the nuclear deal because it remains in place for the most part up until this point. and i do think there's a notion if a democrat is elected president in 2020, the united states absolutely could and should get back in the iran deal and it's in the iranians' interest not to break it now, not to blow the whole thing up. i also think it's in the united states' interest to get back in

the deal. those are the kind of comments being made to the iranians. i know certainly from foshler officials and some of the european countries and other partners that were involved in this deal. at the end of the day the deal was preventing iran from getting a weapon, and there's a longer-term strategy here in terms of arms negotiations and where the deal could go in the future that, quite frankly, i hope outlasts this moment we're in with the trump administration, where they've walked away from all of these international agreements. >> the thing in terms of negotiating, the trump administration signaled they will talk to iran with no preconditions. iran said no to that. what's your take on that? >> the challenge here, alex, is when they got out of the deal they did not put in place a real plan or negotiabling strategy to get a new deal. they talk a big game but there's so much groundwork that has to be done at the staff level, under the secretary's level,

including secretary of state, and when they pulled out of the iran num l iran nuclear agreement, they didn't do that. they said here are 12 things iran needs to do and if they don't, we will walk away. they didn't start negotiations. if they sat down with iran and went back to the drawing board and said here are things we need. what do you need, which is how a negotiation works. you can't force anyone to do anything. i would support them if they went back to the table or tried to get another deal or strengthen the current deal. they just haven't done that. we have not seen one meeting, one conversation with anyone that indicates to me they're serious about negotiating with iran. you don't negotiate with your friends. you negotiate with your adversaries. and they're just not doing it right now. >> marie, do stay with us if you can. i want to talk about your candidate in a bit seth moulton about the 2020 race. you have a lot of hats you're weighing, my friend. >> happy to. meanwhile, also know polling numbers from the president's re-election campaign it shows

the president losing by wide margins to former vice president joe biden across key battleground states. nbc news obtained this data that was conducted back in march, biden then winning by double digits in pennsylvania, wisconsin and 7% in florida. and texas two points but when asked about it, trump denied theen exist. >> even your own polls show you're behind, don't they? >> no. they show i am in the lead. >> the polls say -- >> nobody showed me those polls. >> why does it bother you so much? >> because it's untrue. i like the truth. i'm actually a very honest guy. >> well, the president's campaign manager actually confirmed the internal polling data that exists but called the numbers ancient. the campaign saying since march they've seen huge swings in the president's favor.

joining me now, todd copeland and jan nichols, national correspondent for the nations. good to see you both. what do you think is behind the president's denial? do you think this campaign may not be showing him bad polls or do you think it's about him putting a spin on things? >> i'm really interested in the fact these polls got leaked. i saw some commentary of a little bit of an attempt to wake the president up. one a thing that was in the context of this reporting about the poll is the president didn't seem very engaged in his re-election campaign and wasn't taking it all that seriously. we've seen for the past two years the president basically thinking he could act the same way he did in 2015/2016 and that's the entire re-election strategy. the reaction was first he was briefed on the polled and two the polls got leaked to the

press to show how far he was behind seems to be an attempt to shake the president awake saying you can't just sit back and expect the same base to re-elect you in 2020. it seems to be sending a message to the president. perhaps he isn't taking serious enough the polling. i don't know what happened in the room. but there seems to be a concerted effort to send a message to the president maybe they should take the democrats seriously going forward. >> is even hearing it? wake-up call, john? what do you think? >> i'm sure there's some of that. i think what tal says is quite appropriate. i have to emphasize these polls are more than a wake-up call. they're pretty devastating numbers. we can get excited about a close race in texas or even good numbers out of florida. but remember that for donald trump, the key is the great lake states. and what he's telling us

parallels from publicly polling areas in those regions, two things are significant. number one, there is an energized democratic base. more energized it appears than 2016. additionally one subset of this has a really big deal, major issue for trump, and that is in the rural areas where democrats severely underperformed in 2016. it's what we are seeing in the public polls and i suspect top line numbers we're seeing in other places suggest we're seeing rule areas pick back up to democrats going to that 40% number. if democrats get to that number in states like michigan, wisconsin, minnesota and perhaps iowa, go higher there, donald trump is defeated for re-election. so this is big deal stuff. >> you guys have been further writing about 2020 so i want to get to that specifically. john, you have been critical about the way the first democratic debates are shaping up. what are your concerns?

>> i'm very concerned about the way the debates are shaping up. and it isn't really a criticism so much of the dnc or nbc or whoever's doing it, it's just i don't think people are thinking seriously about how you manage 20 candidates and just dividing them into two groups of ten seems like a good idea on the surface but when we do the draw for which debates you're in, we end up with a situation where four of the top candidates -- biden, sanders, buttigieg and harris are in one debate. and then elizabeth warren over on another stage. you can say warren has her own stage or does great or you can say wow, the action is really on another night. but going forward, knowing these debates will go the way they are, going further, i really think there has to be a rethink because people ought to be able to see the candidates who are in serious competition for the nomination going at one another, not being put on separate

stages. >> you also have endorsed the prospect of single topic debates. so that wouldn't matter so much over two nights, right? >> no, that would be better. and i'm a passionate believer in this. i fear the idea of ten candidates and multiple moderators in a two-hour period just ricochetting in all sorts of directions and frankly doing of the momentism, this is just what came up, let's talk about that. >> more about show than substance, that's what you're worried about? >> i real flier that. i would love it if there was a debate simply on the oirn of climate change and allow the candidates to dig deep on it. maybe a debate on criminal justice reform. i think the issue-focused debates helps us through this challenge of a very, very wide field. >> regarding your program, senator kamala harris unveiling a new set of policies, what's the underlying theme on that? >> what's really interesting is kamala harris and the rest of

the field are tackling some of the same democratic goals but kamala harris leetist policy is continuing a trend where she's talking about going back it using presidential power. so her latest proposal would actually try to create a path towards citizenship for daca resipants, sometimes called dreamers, which we heard democrats talk about for a long time. they also talk about in terms of legislation. and kamala harris came up with a set of regulatory changes she believes can clear the ways for some of these people protected under a daca or similar program to then legalize their status and become citizens. what's so interesting about this, you may remember back in 2010 president trump saying i'm a president, not a king. that mentality i don't want to be authoritarian, we're not seeing that rhetoric from kamala harris on guns and equal pay for men and women and now immigration. she's rolling out these policies that really say i don't need to

pretend i expect congress to act. i talked to some experts who think with the likelihood of democrats even taking the senate, it's going to be a very slim majority. they say it's realistic. now, of course, the caveat and the problem here is that executive action as trump has demonstrated and obama demonstrations can be tied up for years in the courts and can be unwound by the next president. of course, this is a somewhat risky strategy but speaks to the frustration with washington and real appetite for action among the voters. they want to know how you're going to get these things done. >> makes sense. thank you both so much. the president's backtrack, what prompted his debate after some explosive comments. the lexus es...

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first of all, i don't think anybody would present me with anything bad because they know how much i love this country. nobody will present me with anything bad. number two, if i was and, of course, you have to look at it because if you don't look at it, how are you going to know if it's bad? of course you give it to the fbi or report it to the attorney general or somebody like that. >> the president there trying to clarify his comments after he faced the fallout for saying he might not report offers of election help from fiea foreign entity to the fbi. joining me now, mike quigley, member of the house committee. thank you for joining me. always good to see you.

as you know the president said there's nothing wrong with listening if a foreign agency offers you information about an election. and then says you can't know if it's bad unless you look at it. is that right or wrong here? >> first of all, whether it's good or bad isn't the value here, it is still of course illegal. what's troubling for me and so frustrating the special counsel was extraordinarily kind to the president. he bent over backwards in his words to be fair, talking talking about obstruction saying he couldn't go to trial to defend himself. he's working with somebody, the president of the united states, who isn't fair, who doesn't follow democratic norms and violates the rule of law. so here we have it. when he says he has to see what it is first, i don't know how you compare the ethics of that to everyday life.

if you find a wallet, you look in the wallet to see if there's a lot of money before you turn it in? it's wrong to do what he suggested. it's illegal. finally in a perverse way, perhaps what he's doing is defending the actions of his son and seeking out dirt on hillary clinton and the trump tower meeting and contact and working with wikileaks surreptitiously. he's saying hey, it wasn't illegal according to the special counsel, i was exonerated, and my son did it, so it must be okay. >> let's take a look at something else the president said during his initial abc interview. here's that. >> when somebody comes up with oppo research, they come up with oppo reach, let's call the fbi. the fbi doesn't have enough agents to take care of it. you go and talk honestly to congressmen, they all do it, they always have. that's the way it is. it's called oppo research. >> do you agree with the president on that? >> look, democrat, republican,

independent, i have never heard of a member of congress saying or acting as if they would get information from a foreign adversary and not calling the fbi. just this last week at an intelligence public committee meeting i asked a republican witness, i said all of these contexts, would you have called the fbi? he said absolutely. it is the norm that i think every member of congress agrees to. do they do opposition research? absolutely. it's to find out if that person has a felony. i suspect that's fair game however we view it in the world. but it's an entirely different thing for the president of the united states to say it's okay, get information from a foreign adversary who would benefit from his candidacy and say that it's okay. we reached a new low. >> speaking of republicans who think it's wrong, let's listen

to senator lindsey's response, who seems to think it's wrong but had this to say about it -- >> i think it's a mistake. i think it's a mistake of law i don't want to send a signal to encourage this. i hope my democratic colleagues will equally credit that this happened in 2016 when the party gathered opposition research. all of those things are wrong. >> you care to comment on that? >> not letting the truth get in the way of a good line. this is the trump and his associates way to attack this. they spin the story how it all began. it began as a counterintelligence investigation, way beyond the steele memoranda or anything like it. it began when the fbi found out through conduits the russians were trying to seek out the trump campaign and tell them they had dirt on the hillary clinton campaign. the unanimous version, notion of the intelligence community, all 17 entities as early as january

of 2017 is that the russians attacked our democratic process to help one candidate over another one, and they did it with a high level of certainty. i have been on the committee, this is my third term. i have never seen them have this level of certainty at a unanimous level. the senator can say whatever he wants. hopefully the truth will let out. >> let's go to the escalating tensions with iran. the intelligence points to iran as being responsible for the tanker attack in iran. er that denying any involvement. german, eu forces are all asking for more r moevidence. do you have any authorities that we might have made a mistake? >> i think my first concern is our allies don't trust us or believe us.

the fact they want more information is appropriate. >> is it because the president doesn't trust and consistently undermines or intelligence community? >> he does that and he also pulls out of treaties unilaterally. i think the rest of the world views put america first as something as an isolationist selfish policy and the trump's extraordinary comments on foreign policy on an almost weekly basis also undermines the trust they have in us. putting aside the tanker attacks, it is the information leading up to this, which i suspect made the allies not trust anything that follows it. shourpd would anyone be that john bolton would on a unilateral basis get us into a war with very, very questionable intelligence? that's what our allies are looking at. on the other hand, iran does

pose a threat in the region. it's not outside the realm of possibilities they are responsible for these attacks. for me it's the leadup to the tension that the administration has to pull back on, putting the aircraft carriers out there, initially pulling out of the iran deal, removing waivers on sanctions for our allies, these are all pressures. i think it's time and our allies are looking at us for people to take a deep breath, perhaps read the barbara tuchman book about how the great war started, the first world war. it is assuming that we understand how others will act given our action. right now the middle east is a tinderbox. dry kindling waiting for a spark. every once in a while the country has to put its ego in such a manner in its back pocket or a lot of people die. >> illinois democratic congressman mike quigley, thank you so much.

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try to convince the american public they should be the next president but these four democrats did not reach either of the thresholds for the first debate and that includes massachusetts congressman seth moulton. his campaign says though he will be in miami regardless. and yesterday my colleague kristen welker asked moulton whether the debate requirements created by the dnc were fair. >> well, no, but i mean i'm not here to cry over spilled milk. i understood getting in this race fairly late. voters go to the polls of february of next year. this first debate is not going to decide the field. what the dnc should be focused on is who is best able to take on trump? my message is resonating strongly on the ground. >> back with me marie harf, moulton's deputy campaign manager. having just heard from

congressman moulton there, there has to be a sense in the campaign this is unfair, right? not to single out others but everyone is worthy. are there a number of nonpoliticians making this stage? there are. we have to think about that. so do you think that's unfair? >> i think what the dnc quite frankly should be focused on right now is all of the candidates getting to the ground speaking with voters. not spending time on stage with nine other candidates where you don't hear a lot about their vision to beat trump. what's so interesting, alex, they announced on thursday seth would not be part of this debate. yesterday, one day later, we had our best fund-raising day on the campaign since the day we launched. >> why do you think? >> because i think the message that is putting forward to voters on the ground, we've been traveling to the early states, it's resonating. this idea we need an original leadership and someone to take on donald trump as commander in chief, we need a candidate who

can bring together all parts of the democratic party and also independent trump obama voters and disaffected republicans. all of those messages are resonating on the ground and quite frankly, voters don't go to the polls for almost nine months. so the idea we have a debate with 20 people where they get to talk for a very small amount of time, based on polls quite frankly this yirl in the game are mostly name i.d. polls, we think this is an important conversation to have but seth is taking this directly to voters. that's what we are excited to do in the weeks and months. >> i'm curious about you personally, why seth moulton and not joe biden given your work in the obama administration? >> look, all of us who worked in that administration and on those campaigns have a lot of respect for joe biden and admiration for him. but i feel so strongly, alex, it's time for a new generation of leaders in the party. voters are looking for that

personally. they seen what seth brings to the campaign, representing the next generation in the party and his experience on national security. four tours in iraq, four gcomba tours in iraq. i have known him for a while and i have been talking to him a long time how democrats can reclaim patriotism, can reclaim nationalism and service, those ideas donald trump thinks are theirs, seth moulton as i have gotten to know him really represents those. i do think he's willing to bring together a coalition of voters that not many other people can. he's super progressive on some issues like guns, like cannabis legalization, and other others he's actual splitly pretty prag on health care and having a competition in the market, which he believes is the right plan. i think that's just something a real person, politician that voters are looking for. quite honestly, i don't think i

would have joined any other campaign. it's only been a month but we have a lot of months ahead of us on the campaign trail, that's for sure. >> listen, he's lucky to have you. well done and we will see you again. >> thanks, alex. believe it or not, which answers president trump gave to george step kno george stephanopoulos may have changed 34riks forever. d 34riksr award winning interface. award winning design. award winning engine. the volvo xc90. the most awarded luxury suv of the century.

so tomorrow marks four years since that time we all remember that escalator ride that started it all. the president descending into the throng of reporters, supporters, staffers and paid actors to launch his campaign right there in trump tower. that moment beginning a new phase in american politics. joining me now, danielle moody mills, host of woke af on sirius xm, rick tyler and political analyst and former trump campaign adviser, sam numburg. thank you all. sam, i have to start with you, i know you must have been there on that day in january, the jaws have not fully stopped. when this all started, sam, did you or anyone else at trump tower believe we would actually be here today? >> we didn't really know. you have to remember the president at that point had two options. we were going to evaluate by the end of august to see how the

campaign was going and he had to give a decision to nbc if he was going to do "apprentice." that's how this started. fast forward a week later, eight days after his announcement he will no longer be doing "the apprentice," and while it wasn't good for his business during the comments he made in his announcement, he became sort of a political martyr. it's something that i think helped propel him to number one. i always said to him, said to me, where do you think we're going to be after i announce? i said if we're not number two in the teens we have a problem. we were number one faster than i thought and we got into around the 20s less than 15 days after he announced and that was in a crowded field. as rick will remember when he was with ted cruz, it was something where there was just something unique about it. there was an energy. it was something different. it was something that was exciting to the process. and it was novel. >> sam, do you think he was a martyr or do you think he was an attack dog? remember what he said.

>> right, the issue is how is it interpreted by the primary voters? we didn't hear much of a reaction to it besides i think msnbc reporter kasie hunt that day covering it was the only one who asked us about the comments he made about illegal immigrants. however, it became sort of organic eight days later the reaction suddenly happened that he lost a lot of business opportunities and he was heavily attacked. but the it was seen, when i say a martyr, the way it was seen because of the message of immigration, rule of law, the way it was seen by the primary voter was much different and much different interpretation. >> there are a number of new controversial remarks to unpack today, rick. i will start with you. those include the president disputing his former white house counsel don mcgahn's statements in the mueller report. let's listen to what he said about that. >> i never suggested firing mueller. >> that's not what he says. >> i don't care what he says. it doesn't matter.

that was to show everyone what a good counsel he was. but we had a business -- >> why would he lie under oath? >> he wanted to make himself look like a good lawyer. or, or he believed it because i would constantly tell anybody who would listen, including you, including the media, that robert mueller was conflicted. robert mueller had a total -- i didn't say that. >> rick, do you think republicans are going to buy the president's version of this story? i don't know. i'm not sure what he means. or, or, or, but i have been telling people robert mueller is conflicted. i don't understand the answer to the question. look, let's go back four years ago the escalator arrived. i remember that day well. i was in the houston headquarters and we were watching, of course, the announcement with the cruz campaign. i can remember we burst out

laughing hysterically when he came down the escalator because it was symbolism we're going down. it wasn't something you would normally plan for. sam was right. trump never -- i don't remember a national poll where he wasn't number one after he announced. and he kept that lead up. he did lose iowa to us so he did lose in the statewide poll. but he stayed number one. and part of the campaign, and think i part of the way the media covered him was, he was going -- this was it. i remember at the end of his announcement campaign we're all thinking that was a really interesting and entertaining and that's over. event after event after event we said that's over and realized it's not over. we're here today. it happens again and again and again. it's clearly donald trump in my view the way i read it he did want to fire mueller and gave explicit instructions to fire mueller verbally, not written down, but he did that.

that was obstruction of justice. but what will happen? maybe nothing. >> there was an exchange interview about the president's refusal to sit for an interview with mueller's team and to answer certain questions in a written fashion. let's watch how that played out. >> you didn't ask questions about obstruction. >> i answered questions in writing. they gave me questions, i answered them in writing. >> not on obstruction. >> george, you're being a wiseguy, which is typical for you. just so you understand, first, it's very simple, there was no crime. there was no collusion. >> what do you make of that, danielle? >> i think there's a reason why the president didn't sit down with mueller's team. there's a reason why. we see that in the interview with abc's george stephanopoulos, because he's going to incriminate himself. because he's actually going to tell the truth. the president is a liar. everyone who has surrounded him

is a liar and they get caught over and over again. the question is whether or not democrats are going to do anything about it. he sits there and says don mcgahn, he lies because he's a good lawyer because in donald trump's mind if you are a good business person, if you're a good lawyer, if you are a good servant to him, you're going to do his bidding. we see where that bidding gets people. we see his men are in jail, paul manafort is in jail, because they were good to trump until they no longer served him and now they're serving time. the truth is we can't trust anything that comes out much donald trump's mouth and there's a reason why robert mueller wanted to sit down with him, wanted to have that one on one because he knew donald trump would pull a moment like he did this past week with george stephanopoulos and say hey, everybody does it. everybody obstructs justice, everybody takes information from foreign adversaries, everybody does everything we can in order to win and we know donald trump

did everything he could in order to win, including break the law. >> rick, last question to you, with the president's comments on accepting dirt from foreign governments, he was very quick to write off the fbi director at the end of that. what do you make of that? >> it wasn't very well thought out. he said the fbi director is wrong. here's a problem with all of that is that foreign governments that give information or get involved in campaigns are doing so because they have an interest, particularly adversaries. now look at the iranian situation, you have an administration most people don't trust. they don't think donald trump tells the truth. if these situations in order to mobilize people against a cause as if we were going to war with iran, you have to be able to believe the administration and this administration is not believable. >> rick and danielle and sam, always good to see all three of you. thank you so much. i'm not a monster, i'm simply amanda. next, a tearful return from

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escalating tensions, the u.s. and iran spar over iran attackers, putting the u.s. on edge. and what new information expected to learn from longtime trump fan hope hicks that isn't in the report.

"ice on fire" documentary talking about the dire situation and what can be done to change it, starting now. good day from msnbc headquarters in new york, welcome to "weekends with alex witt." we begin with details on the escalating tensions between iran and the u.s. new claims by u.s. officials iran's proxies shot down a u.s. drone over the red sea and more fallout on attacks on two tankers over the persian gulf with u.s. allies warning against further military escalation. one congressman gave me his take on why allies are asking for more evidence of iran's culpability. >> trump's extraordinary comments on foreign policy on almost weekly basis also undermines the trust they have in us. putting aside the tanker attacks, the information leading up to this, which i suspect has made our allies not trust anything that follows it. how surprised would anyone be that john bolton would on a

unilateral basis get us us into a war with very, very questionable intelligences? >> nbc's courtney kube is joining me more from doha with new information. another welcome to you on this day. what more are you hearing about the u.s. allegations against iran? >> so we're getting a little bit more detail now, alex, about what the u.s. is saying were two times, two separate times in the last couple of weeks where u.s. drones were targeted by what the u.s. military is saying were either iranian forces or iranian-backed forces. the first time was on june 6th and this case a u.s. reaper drone was targeted by houthi's, the rebel group in yemen, and in this case the military said the reaper was shot at and shot down and destroyed by these houthis. this was over a week ago. the second time was on june 13th on thursday, just after the first distress call by the motor

tanker altear. in this case another u.s. drone, reaper, flew by after that first distress call and was targeted by a surface-to-air missile that missed the drone but did fly near it. again, alex, these are two separate times the u.s. military is now saying u.s. drones were targeted by either iranian or iranian-banged forces in the region. >> courtney kube watching things for us in doha. thank you for the update. appreciate that. joining me now, congressman tim ryan, democrat from ohio p. , running for president and qualified for the debate later this month. we will see him on that stage june 26th. welcome to you, sir. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> before we get to the debate, i want to ask you if you were the president now, how would you be addressing the situation with iran? do you think you would try to deescalate the tensions and move forward on that? >> of course you want to deescalate it.

the war in the middle east to this point in addition to what's going on in iraq and syria and all of the other activity there would be a disaster. i think it's important. we would not be in this position if i was president, alex, because we had a peace deal with iran. everybody needs to remember this president took us out of a long, tedious negotiated peace deal with iran to make sure they did not have nuclear weapons. he recklessly got us out of it. he put john bolton in a very high position. john bolton has been talking about regime change in iran for a long time and the president doesn't play too close of attention on some of these issues. this is a dangerous situation we're in right now. but it goes back to the fact we had a deal with iran that the president recklessly got us out of. what the hell did he think was going to happen? here we are in the middle of escalated tem

escalated tensions in the middle east. russia is an ally with iran. russia's been deeply involved in our elections, trying to destroy our democracy, so, of course, they're partnering with iran now. i'm sure they are in some way, shape, or form behind what's going on here. they want to try to destroy us. you have john bolton there. so escalating tensions, we're running trillion dollar deficits, so now get us engaged in something that will hurt the global economy, destabilize the region and further get americans involved in something we don't necessarily want to be involved in. this is completely reckless but most importantly was preventible. >> do you think would you try to put us back in this deal? would that be one way would you deal with it? >> i would most certainly try to get us back into the iranian deal. it was a good deal. it was a good deal. it was prevechbting iran from having nuclear weapons. now we're going to have a nuclear weapon race in the middle east between saudi arabia and iran and these other

countries are going to want their own nuclear weapons to protect themselves. that's why they had the nuclear weapons done. even russia was supporting it. and the president took us out of it and now john bolton, regime changer for iran, is in a top position for us. it makes no sense, completely preventable. >> let's get to the debate. you will be on that stage the first night along with other senators elizabeth warner, cory booker, amy klobuchar. when you heard the pairings, what was your reaction? >> i was excited. the good night is a good opportunity because there will be a lot of eyeballs on it. i'm just excited to be on the stage. we have a great opportunity to talk about who i am and where i'm from, being from the epicenter of the industrialization, i think that democrats today, alex, are going to want someone who really understands what's happening with the economy.

i have been taking president trump on, on the economy. it's not as good as he's saying. just because the stock market is up and unemployment is down, people went from making $30, $40 down to $15. we will put forth a very robust agenda, reform agenda around creating an industrial policy in the united states to start making things again. if people want to be support of that agenda, they can go to timryanfor america.com and we talk about that. >> is there anything on the stage you did not connect directly to joe biden, bernie sanders to this point? >> not really. i think there will be seven, eight, or so other people on the stage that will be applying pressure to both senator sanders and 1r79 biden in their agenda and what they want to do for the country. for me it's about getting people to know who i am, where i'm

from, being from northeast ohio, i have a long legacy of defending working class people, that they can trust me when i'm in the white house to pull the powerful levers of government for the working class and i come from the middle of the intant mortality crisis in the country, middle of the mental health skries in the country, middle of the opiate crisis in the coun y country. the people want to know they will get the government back working for them, the government will be on their side. that's what i will provide for them. a real opportunity to hear me talk about it. i have been in congress 17 years, alex, working on these issues against china and all of the other ones i listed. i'm excited to be there. if anybody wanted to be a part of that, they can go to tim ryan for america.com. no one at this point, alex, would have expected congressman tim ryan from youngstown, ohio, would be on the debate stage. i think it speaks to the fact we're connecting to voters around these economic issues. >> absolutely, that certainly has been a big platform for you

and something you fought for in all of these, what, 17 years in congress. you have that to look at. people can look at that as well. but you have acknowledged name recognition is a challenge for you. how do you want to break through? how do you plan to do it and gain some lasting, national notice? >> we're going to talk about, again, who i am and where i'm from. i think people will know i will be on their side. also because of where i come from, we had to scrap our way through survival. they will hear about the most cutting edge education reforms i will be putting forward around social and emotional learning and trauma-based care and really taking care of our kids and schools, making sure they're eating well. we will hear talk about innovative ways approaching health care, flipping the system from a disease care system to

system of prevention. using medicine that's reversing things like type 2 diabetes at a very low cost and get these pharmaceutical companies out of our lives to the except we can by staying healthy. i have an innovative program around trying to cut the veteran suicide rates down in the united states. with innovative things like yoga and meditation that are healing vets and getting them off their meds and all of the prescription drugs they're on. people will hear tim ryan is for really cool, innovative things that are actually working around the country and whether it's affordable housing or getting mental health counselors in every single school in america, people will i think understand that my agenda is coming out of youngstown, ohio and akron, ohio. it's not something i learned on the ivy league schools.

>> i know outsourcing is one of your big platforms as well. can i ask you given your state in ohio in 2015, which was won by the president, how is he seen there right now if you could take a temperature on that? >> i wish you wouldn't have reminded my of that, alex. >> i'm sorry. >> that's okay. >> the shine's coming off the apple. there's no question. we had three ships at the local general motors plant go in the last three years. it's a plant that had over 16,000 workers in it. we lost a few hundred trucking jobs. the truckers were informed through text message on a saturday night they lost their jobs, leave the trucks where they are and pack their bags. that's happening all over the country. and, yeah, i mean manufacturing growth is not happening in places like the great lake states. the shine is coming off the apple because the president hasn't delivered on any of this

stuff. my argument to the people at home and democrats looking to vote in this election as nominee is who better to prosecute the economic case against donald trump that somebody to the area that lied to all of the people, all of the workers, those are my folks. white, black, brown, gay, straight, working class people he lied to. i believe i'm best positioned to make that economic argument against donald trump and make the argument on behalf of the workers and say we can do better than this. oh, by the way, we have to win western p.a., we have to win ohio, we have to win michigan, we have to win witness witnesco play offense on iowa. my idea is let's switch the center of gravity from the democrats to the coast of the e ivy league schools to youngstown, ohio. and go to kentucky, which isn't far from where i'm from and take

on mitch mcconnell and go to south carolina and help janie harrison take out lindsey graham. we have to win the senate back period if we're going to have a long-term agenda for the country. i think moving the center of gravity to a place like ohio shifts the brand and you have a working class blue collar candidate that will be the nominee. it's about taking trump out. somebody's got to knock the bully out in order to bring peace and harmony to the playground. i definitely can do that. but then we have to move forward with a big agenda that will rebuild the middle class in the united states. i think i'm well suited to do that. >> all right, democratic presidential candidate tim ryan, congressman of ohio. best of luck. we will be watching for you wednesday, june 26th f. n, if n before as well. >> thank you. now the other 2020 presidential contenders active on campaigns today focusing on debate preps. kamala harris in las vegas, and

a new poll showing elizabeth warren overtaking bernie sanders. she's at 16, sanders 12. joe biden still leading that one with 27. and today elizabeth warren, cory booker, beto o'rouke, pete buttigieg all in south carolina at the black economic alliances presidential forum. let's go to our road warrior garrett haake in charleston right now for us. garrett, good day to you, my friend. what's happening in south carolina today? a lot going on, right? >> alex, yes, there is. they practice a very tactile kind of politics and your seeing it now. mayor pete buttigieg is back in this crowd here. he's part of five for 15 protests here, a march to unionize mcdonald's workers in this case in south carolina, expand union power here, get to the $15 minimum wage. mayor pete's the third democratic candidate to participate in a march like this this morning here in south carolina. this is a big important battle

state here. this is the first of the states in which they're a dominant political force. i saw beto o'rouke at a town hall talking about criminal justice, all-black manupanel tr to get ideas from them. i asked him how it went and what he might put in his policies. what shows up in a beto plan based on conversations like this? >> we were talking about the disparity, for example, of the enforcement of drug laws. people locked up and spending time for possession of marijuana and substances that are legal in most states in the country. >> you hear him talking about legalization of the marijuana there, beto o'rouke. this is a state that partially legalized marijuana about a year ago. this is an issue he was out in front. you're seeing the fight of unionization and increasing members and it's a big deal in

part of the southern states. part of the reason so many candidates want to come out here and put their wingtips to the pavement and join these marchers and be part of the movement building supporters in the fourth state in the primary cycle. a lot of folkless probably not be standing oof south carolina votes. >> i think they're all wearing sneakers they're going so fast. garrett haake, thank you very much. inside the president's internal polls, the candidate he's trailing in battleground states next. ♪ play it cool and escape heartburn fast with new tums chewy bites cooling sensation. ♪ tum tum tum tums

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president trump appearing to backtrack, saying he would accept campaign help from a former government -- with a foreign government rather without necessarily telling the fbi. here's what he said initially and how he revised hose comments yesterday. >> if somebody called from a country and said we have information on your opponent, oh, i'd think i want to hear it. >> would that not be interference in an election? >> it's not interference. would i take it. >> first of all, i don't think they would present me with anything bad. they know how much i love this country. number two, if i was, and of course you have to look at it because if you don't look at it, how are you going to know if it's bad? of course you give it to the fbi or report it to the attorney general or somebody like that. >> just a short while ago, congressman mike quigley, a democrat in the intelligence

committee, told me the president is violating the rule of law. >> when he says that he has to see what it is first, i don't know how you can compare the ethics of that to everyday life. if you find a wallet, you look in the wallet to see if there's a lot of money before you turn it in? it's wrong to do what he's suggested. it's illegal. >> the president's apparent about-face came after he received plenty of bipartisan criticism. joining me, betsy woodruff, politics for the daily beast and a political reporter from "l.a. times." betsy, you have been reporting on the democratic reaction here. lawmakers you spoke to described his remarks as, quote, shocking, disqualifying and even criminal. then you write, they did what they've come to do best, shrug. can you explain that? >> the challenge that democrats on capitol hill face who support impeachment or at least want a formal impeachment inquiry to be open is speaker of the house

nancy pelosi has resolutely opposed any movement on that front. i have spoke, my colleagues and i spoke to a number of staff who favor impeachment who have been involved in the internal conversations, several dozen members who have publicly come out and called for the president to be impeached. what these staff say is they believe the number of congressional democrats calling for impeachment has stayed comparatively small because members worry if they buck pelosi and come out and say she needs to do more, democratic leadership needs to do more, they can potentially face some sort of retaliation. the result is even when the president makes kmonts like the ones he made earlier this week that sure sound like they're supporting potentially unlawful activity, congressional democrats are not actually jumping on that and use it to increase the torque in their investigation by starting an impeachment inquiry and that caused a huge amount of frustration among the hill democrats.

>> what do you see that's behind the president's about-face on this topic? it's not every day we hear him attempt to clarify or walk back comments? >> i think there was a lot of heat and bipartisan heat. you saw lindsey graham, a golfing buddy of the president come out and say look, this is inappropriate. in addition, i think george stephanopoulos' question was very clear. he wasn't asking about the president's discussion with world leaders. he was clearly asking about dirt from a foreign government. i was reminded about four years ago on the campaign when the president candidate said hey, china, i'm sorry, russia why, if you're listening, i would like to see the 30,000 clinton emails. that wasn't surprising but the backtracking was interesting. >> do you hear anything from white house officials as to something they're defending in private? >> i have not spoken to white house officials in particular about that question. what i can tell you on the oversight front as the white house is gearing up for this congressional onslaught is

administration officials tell me they're going to be involved in decisions the justice department makes about what underlying evidence from the mueller investigation, members of the house judiciary committee get to see. the white house very much feels like when the executive branch is in question, they have a huge amount of leverage and control over what democratic executives get access to and that's something they're banking on going forward. there's so much democrats want they have zero appetite for showing them. >> can i ask you the pros cons the ten on one night, ten on the other, the kiddie table and whatnot, how do you think this lands up in the end, cima? >> i think they're hoping to have it split up into front-runners and that kind of happened but didn't because the prominent candidates will be on the second night, sanders,

buttigieg. i wonder how this will impact the lower-tier candidates, will this have their opportunity to get their message out on the second night? and four years ago when they had over a dozen candidates, each candidate has such little time to get their message out. how do you break through some do you have one zinger or one line? four years ago donald trump was usually the one with the breakthrough moment. are any of these candidates able to do what trump did four years ago? i don't know. that will be interesting to watch. >> final thoughts, betsy? >> i love presidential debates. i they're so fun. i'm really excited. i know there's always going to be something for people to complain about. there's not a bird pr way to have 20 people have a degate. there will be a lot of griping and consideration but these things are so fun. >> we will see what happens. i'm sure we will be talking about it as well. thank you, ladies. amanda knox is back in italy and speaking out this morning about her murder conviction and

acquittal which set out an international uproar and says she still lives in fear of being unjustly accused. nbc's sarah harmony is following this for us. sarah, welcome to you. what's the latest on this? >> hey, alex, amanda knox knows a lot of people think she's crazy for even going back to italy where she faced these charges but this is deeply personal for her. she feels like the media mishandled her case and she really wants to set the record straight. amanda knox center stage today, visibly emotional as she addressed a criminal justice event. speak income italian, knox told the audience through tears she is still scared now today of being attacked, vilified, of new accusations just because she's come here to tell her version of the story. she spent four years behind bars after she was convicted of murdering her roommate, meredith kercher.

she was later acquitted. the inquest was contaminated, she says. the jury was corrupted. it was impossible for me to have a fair trial. an attorney for the kercher family calling her return to italy inappropriate and very painful. knox has been in the spotlight ever since she's arrived earlier this week. cameras awaiting her at the airport in milan, following her every move, prompting her to leave a panel early, at times clearly emotional. earlier this week she fleblted on her experience writing, the italian prosecutor painted me as a sex-crazed femme fatale and media profits for years by sensationalizing in already sensational and utterly unjustified story. she also criticized the media that she says does not dwrish between a person's life and click-worthy content saying here on "today" last year -- >> they decided i was guilty and

retro speculatively decided to view me through the lens of guilt. if i was crying, it was wrong. if i wasn't crying, it was wrong. >> another man was also accused of kercher's murder and still serving a 16-year sentence. and now amanda and her boyfriend trying to reclaim their lives. amanda said she knows she's a high-profile figure, especially in italy but she's determined to embrace that and wants to take back the narrative and help other people who she says could have been wrongly accused like her. ail snex. >> that's showing strength. that's for sure. sarah harman in london, thank you very much, sarah. the winners and losers drawn for the fist democratic debate. that's next. tic debate that's next.

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democrats will be taking the spotlight night one for the debate, drawing officials to say there will be a kiddie table debate. night two includes joe biden,

pete buttigieg, kamala harris and bernie sanders. joining me peter emerson, who's worked in three democratic administrations, republican consultant shermichael singleton, host of "consider it" and conservative strategist lauren zelt. always good to have you. who do you think will be the winners and losers of these sze baits? >> i have done a lot of these over the decades and the winners are those with authenticity, sense of humor and most importantly given the number of people on stage. both of those two debate nights is someone who has a very memorable, highly rememberable phrase to shot out much the way water mondale did with gary hart, where's the beef? politically correct it will be where's the protein? those who are inauthentic, humorless and thick that somehow substance given the very short period of time each candidate will have will win the night. that i don't think will be the

case. >> what about "the washington post" headline, shermichael, that says the drawing has been lopsided. do you see it that way? isn't it possible someone on night one can benefit not sharing the stage with the front runners? >> i think so. but to put most of the well-known individuals on night two does a disservice to some of the candidates who are lesser known candidates. i do think, however, it will be a great night for elizabeth warren because it will given her an opportunity, i would argue, to really sort of get into some of the nuances of many of the policy proposals she's put forward, i think translating tonight too, joe biden needs to be steady and firm and show why he is the front runner. i also expect to see kamala harris and mayor pete do very, very well, which could benefit their numbers. >> what about the republican undercard debate which i'm sure you remember, lauren. in 2015, serve kaenven candidat, main debate had ten. what are the lessons from those packed debates?

>> the dnc did everything they could to try to avoid the same kiddie table debate situation, but unfortunately, as "the washington post" reported it, it is a bit lopsided. you are seeing about 20 or so percent collectively of the candidates polling on night one and 64% on night two with the rest undecided. so i am going to be interested to see how elizabeth warren does on night one. she's starting to surpass senator sanders in some of the polling. i think if she distinguishes herself, she will come out as the progressive front runner but with the understanding a lot of these progressive he candidates collectively, so senator warren, bill de blasio, bernie sanders and others are still only polling together about 30%, which the sen tracentrists are about 50%. >> does it help those on night two to watch those on night one?

>> it does. you have to be careful not to compare yourself generally speaking. i recommend to people getting ready for the debate try to go inward rather than outward to look to their awe thskills rathn matching others. i think al gore learned the hard way. you can watch it but try not to absorb too much of it. >> how much of a setback is it for those who did not make the debate stage? >> alex, i think it's no surprise given the numbers of candidates in this thing not every single person would make it and to be honest, i think that's okay. i don't think democrats want to create an environment for whomever becomes a nominee of the party that individual has a difficult time rallying and putting together all of the desperate factions which will be very difficult going head to head for donald trump. this is what i said, alex, thinking about night one and night two, whatever individuals

can show case they are the best persons to go toe to toe with donald trump will do very well i would argue for democratic voters and even independent voters looking for that person, whomever they are, to say this is better than trump. >> i'm out of time so i'm definitely going ladies first next time. my thank you to you all. game-changer, why hope hicks' testimony before the house could be damaging to the president. one of the congressmen on the judiciary committee is joining me next. tee is joining me next. incomparable design makes it beautiful. state-of-the-art technology makes it brilliant. the visionary lexus nx. lease the 2019 nx 300 for $359/month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.

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developing this hour, a group of house judiciary members have started reviewing former special counsel robert mueller's underlying evidence. politico reports they traveled to the doj thursday to begin looking at the documents. joining me is one of those lawmakers, florida representative ted deutsche, a might be of both the house judiciary and foreign affairs committee. congressman, thank you so much for joining me. awfully good to see you. >> likewise. >> what conversations have you been able to review so far and is it material that's will help your committee's investigation? >> i can't really talk about what i've seen but i can absolutely acknowledge that it will help the investigation, which is why the justice department should turn over all of the information. they should do it quickly and they shouldn't make us schlep down pennsylvania avenue to the department of justice to see it when we know how to handle materials like this in congress. the pace needs to pick up. that's what we saw in our committee last week and that's

only going to accelerate with hope hicks coming before us this week. >> why is that even happening? it's rather bizarre you have to schlep, as you say, down to the doj to look at these documents. was that part of a deal jerry nadler struck? >> that was initially the way they agreed to make these available. the conversations continued as we pointed out we can certainly handle these materials in congress. we talk about, i love coming on your show, because at the ends of the week we get to reflect upon what happened. let's remember this was the week where we finally started to refocus what's in the mueller report and in particular the fact don mcgahn was asked to fire mueller and told by the president to lie about it and then told by the president to create a false file about it and then we saw the president with stephanopoulos later in the week saying that wasn't true.

>> i didn't do that. >> yes. and after he was pressed by stephanopoulos on why the president of the united states refused to cooperate with mueller on this investigation of obstruction of justice, he did what he always does, resorted to name-calling of the interviewer. people love a good story. they love a good book in our country but they want to see the movie more. we have the mueller report. now we're going to start hearing from and talking to the subject in that report so the american people can see firsthand and hear firsthand all of the ways the president acted to obstruct justice. >> we should also say the president threw don mcgahn under the bus saying he just did it to main himself look good. it really was rather extraordinary. let's talk about hope hicks. what do you expect to hear from her that she's not already offered in testimony? >> here's what's important about hope hicks. she was a key part of the trump campaign, which a large part of

the report was focused on. she was a key part of the trump administration in the early days and that's the reason that she's a prominent figure in the mueller report. i have a whole series of questions that i think i like to ask and i look forward to having her answer but they all get to really the fundamental question of what was happening inside the campaign and inside the white house? all of those things that were described in the mueller report were a starting point that we get to ask about. then the questions will go from there. it's that kind of background that will help inform the way this whole process goes forward. >> a couple of things here, the testimony being behind closed doors in addition to the fact you have a member of white house counsel accompanying her, how much do you really expect to find out? >> well, given the history of the administration throughout this investigation, i'm not kidding myself

into believing suddenly the administration will back down in their efforts to stonewall congress and prevent the american people from getting the truth. if she tries to invoke executive privilege or to blame her inability to respond to questions because the administration has this blanket and unacceptable use of executive privilege, then we'll call her on it and reserve all of the ways we have to press to make sure that we get those answers. we've seen throughout this entire process an unwillingness of the administration to cooperate. the reason is becoming more and more apparent. we saw it in our hearing last week. we saw it in the president's flustering, his inability to explain why he simply refused to answer questions about obstruction of justice, and we know they turned over materials on this subject. when they turn them over, they can't rely on executive privilege. we will press to get the truth. >> how about regarding hope

hicks, she was right in the thick of it when it came to the don jr. issue and how they would spin what happened at the june meeting. what do you want to hear from her on that? >> well, again, i want to hear more about what she heard since she was so centrally located in the midst of that. again this week, remember, alex, here's another one this week the president essentially confirmed everything that was in volume one of the mueller report when he said yes, foreign governments can interfere in our elections, i invite them to interfere in our elections. not only is that a problem an alarming and should concern us all, but we were reminded by the chairman of the fec later in the week that it is illegal to receive any benefit from a foreign government, any benefit at all in connection with an election. those are the types of issues that we are investigating and the president this week in every one of those issues proved to

the american people why the work we do is so urgent at this point. >> representative ted deutsche, we're out of time for this, but i understand you did introduce a measure on gun control this week. i would love for you to come back and talk to us about that one. that's something near and dear to me. >> i look forward to it. thank you, alex. >> thank you. wake-up call, what's different in a documentary on climate change that focuses on how we can still turn things around. ♪

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every time i go to a new lake, i attempt to light these gas pockets because it is very high concentration of methane that is highly flammable. we see a positive flame test when they contain methane. >> hbo latest climate change documentary "ice on fire" shows the immediate effects of climate change and what we and world leaders can do about it. just this week temperatures in greenland were 40 degrees higher than normal and arctic ice sheet levels are approaching the lowest levels recorded in the age of weather satellites. pretty sobering there. joining me now is the director of the documentary lila connors. what i appreciate is how you've highlighted the numerous ways that people are fighting to reduce the volume of carbon

emissions on our planet. some of them are huge and have the ability to turn things around cumulatively and is there a prospect you think that could be the first to gain global recognition and implementation? >> i think there is 80 solutions that we know of. a lot of them are natural and some are technical. trees are very, very important. what blew me away was kelp. planted in 9% of global waters who reduce emissions by 50% and that is mind-blowing. and what is exciting is that people invented a direct air capture machine in switzerland, very small machine runs on renewable energy and we could turn carbon into stone. so we can reverse what we have done over the last 150 years which i find very exciting. >> those were two of the things that stayed with me as well. what do you think is the most feasible thing world leaders can do and how damaging is it that our president pulled us out of

the paris climate accord. >> it is damaging in the sense it slows us down. we don't have a lot of time. we have under 10 years to reduce our emissions to zero and we have to start drawing down what we call legacy carbon in the next 20 to 30 years. so when we have a president that doesn't believe in climate change, that pulls us out of agreements, it slows our country down but our message is people around the world, including americans, are working to address this problem. not just with innovations but also with science, keeping the science current so we know what is happening to our planet. >> i'm curious what is behind the pushback on the science behind climate change. you have decades of research of monitoring of statistics all put together plus visual proof of the melting ice caps, the rising waters. how do denies make their case? >> well, they've been very successful because we're still discussing it. one of the scientists in our film said they've been work on this problem for 30 years. and still there is a question

about it. we know for sure it is human caused because carbon that we burn from fossil fuels is different than natural carbon. so they could measure very accurately what we've done to the atmosphere. >> you know, the film is called "ice on fire" and we showed the clip of lighting ice on fire from the escaping methane gas. what did you find most shocking while making the documentary. >> what is shocking is the lake -- the men age, which is why the ice is on fire because it is flammable, that methane is 35,000 years old and -- carbon dated lost in the permafrost before the ice age ended so what is happening is that old methane that wasn't in the current carbon psychle is now in the atmosphere and that will increase temperatures further. it means we're hitting a tipping point. so we have to pull back from the tipping points in order to

preserve the planet as we know it. >> lila, i'm curious, it is not your first film about climate change and you worked on "the 11th hour" with leonardo decaprio. have you seen a difference on the position of climate change. >> i think people are getting it. sadly because of the fires in the west and the floods that we're seeing, because of the extreme events of high temperatures in the arctic, now it is no longer a question we see it. >> lila connors, director of a very powerful documentary "ice on fire" all over hbo right now. it runs about an hour and 40 minutes. well worth everybody's time. thank you so much. >> thank you so much for having me. tainted alcohol or something else, the big questions after another american tourist dies while vacationing in the dominican republic. a lot of republicans and democrats but not there. that is in our next hour. our nr

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