and that will do it for me on this hour of "weekends with al alex witt." now, it's time for "up with david gura." ♪ this is "up." i'm david gura. new details on the cyber war between russia and the united states, detailed in a bombshell report in "the new york times." president trump calling that story a virtual act of treason. and this may be what set him off. >> a report has that u.s. president trump has not been briefed in detail about the operation. thousands of protesters in the streets. there's been several demonstrations this week. now, they're calling for hong kong's leader to resign. >> the crowd keeps getting bigger.

just ten days to go until the first democratic debate. as the candidates crisscross the country, they're giving us a sense of how they're going to prepare for the big event in miami. >> you know, i'm going to figure out what it's like to only talk about 60 seconds and then you have to quit. >> it's sunday, june 16th. happy father's day. four years ago today, trump set foot on the escalator in trump tower to announce he was running for president. while the democratic hopefuls will square off against him. >> biden leads trump by 13 points. sanders beat by nine points. harris, by eight points. buttigieg and booker beat him by five. and somehow bill de blasio still loses by 137%. >> "up" with me this morning. he's the senior news editor at buzzfeed news.

and rick rasmussen is now an msnbc intelligence and national security analyst. l. joy williams is on civics on siriu sirius/xm. and pete dominick, the host of standup with pete dominick, also on sirius/xm. >> cookies for father's day. happy father's day to you, sir. >> happy father's day to you, too. new reporting from "the new york times," has the president crying fake news. the u.s. is escalating online attacks on russia's power gri. and one standout line. two administration officials tell "the times," they believed that president trump had not been briefed in any detail about the steps the u.s. has taken. pentagon and intelligence officials say there's hesitation to go into detail with the president because there's concern over his reaction. his reaction to the piece itself was swift. president trump said this is a

virtual act of treason by a once-great paper. nbc news has not verified that report, by two reporters, one of whom awarded three pulitzer prizes for his work. but he said that the president tried to walk back news in an interview. >> i don't think anybody would prevent me with anything bad they know how much i love this country. >> president trump backtracking after he said this to george stephanopoulos in the oval office. >> i think maybe you do both. i think you might want to listen. i don't know. there's nothing wrong with listening. i think i would want to hear it. >> you want that interference in our elections? >> it's not an interference. it's information. >> the commander in chief making that statement, after the mueller report identified 100

contacts between team trump and russia. donald trump jr. writing an e-mail on dirt with hillary clinton. and this is what jared kushner had with jonathan swann. >> why didn't you pick up the phone and call the fbi? there was an e-mail that said the russian government wanted to help. >> we're in a place where people are playing monday morning quarterback. i would get 250 e-mails a day. i showed up at 4:00. >> would you have called the fbi if it happened again. >> i don't know. it's hard to do hypotheticals. >> republican response was muted. this was nancy pelosi's response. >> what the president said last night, shows clearly, over and over again, he does not know the difference between right and wrong. and that's about the nicest thing i can say about him. >> efforts to bolster election security in this country have

stalled. and mitch mcconnell has let several pieces of legislation langui languish. the chairwoman writing this -- let me make something 100% clear. it is illegal for any person to solicit, accept, or receive any of value from a foreign national in connection with a national election. let's start with you. his use of the word would. i don't think anybody would present me with in information. that did happen. and the distinction he draws between interference and information. help draw the distinction of what he said. >> i don't know if there distinctidi distinction can be drawn. a hostile foreign power can be seeking any information, good, bad and different, to drive and the way people think and vote and act politically in this country. that should be offensive to everybody. a crossing of a red line. and it shouldn't be up for debate if that's appropriate or

inappropriate. parsing the words is great. but the context is what matters here. a president doesn't accept that election interference is a real thing. >> there was a hypothetical the president goes into. with norway, you have this information, and david gram saying this is as good as a request for bids. do you hear it as that? >> absolutely. people around the world heard that and realized, well, i guess it's open season. if we can get this information in front of him, get it into the oval office, in the campaign, they will remember this. if and when they win the next election. a little hot water, with the accomplishment. if they can get dirt on other political candidates and get in front of the president, why wouldn't they if they think there's going to be more consequence if they think this

can bolster their support with the trump administration. >> the president tried to walk all of this back. he spoke with a level of impunity that's astounding, in that interview with george stephanopoulos. what do you make of that, rather than the lack of honesty from the president in the oval office. >> a tremendous amount of ignorance and lack of understanding how history -- how the founding fathers created the concerns about foreign interference. a tremendous lack of understanding of government. of national security issue s. he admits crimes and finds out he admitted a crime, and he has to walk it back, even a little during the week. he implodes and we all watch it. he has no understanding and he is only watching it day-to-day, hour-to-hour. every day, we have to deal with this and worry about what's next

because he has no idea which end is up. and he's a conspiracy theorist. and his own national security people, and nick can speak to this working in republican and democratic administrations, they won't tell him what's going on because he will tell our enemies. he wouldn't allow the cia to conduct espionage, do their job against the north korean leaders because they're lovers. >> i need to talk to joy. this element hit on wednesday evening. like you, a lot of people were looking to see how republicans would respond to it. >> oh, no. >> i just want to say, my favorite line about this is from "rolling stone." the comments were so egregious that most republicans refrained from commenting. that's where we are now. >> i'm not looking to anybody to give a response. this president told us who he was and is, since he came down an escalator. those of us in new york city, in

new york, have known him for a long time. i'm not shocked or no longer surprised about anything, it's his own administration, officials keeping information from him, in order for us to protect our country. and i think that is the thing that i try to remind people of. on sundays, saying this all the time, starting at the beginning, that a foreign power interfered systematically in our elections process. and we then have a president who is supposed to be protecting as american people, who is fine with it. his focus is not on in answering that question. how do i make sure that our political process is protected? again, it's about him. why would i take information, whether or not he would contact the fbi or not. to focus the conversation, for someone who loves the country and loves the american people,

he in no way describes that in his language, or protecting this country. >> let me go back to what pete was talking about, this piece in "the new york times." and what comes across is, this is a group of people trying to protect themselves. they don't want to take this information to the president of the united states. from your perspective, having worked in intelligence and law enforcement, what does that say to you? what does that say to you about the ramifications about the security of this country, if the commander in chief, the president isn't being briefed, isn't aware of the operation detailed in "the times" today? >> there's a fine balance to be drawn between how much detail do you take and put on the president's desk. that would be true under any presidency or any administration. here, it's more acute because the idea that it could be burted out in a public setting, the idea that the president would kounlt man -- >> we've seen that before with the russian ambassador in the oval office. >> as "the times" reported, if

accurate, the president might decide i don't want you to do that. even though everybody else thought this was a set of activities that made sense to our national security. having to do your job in that way, has to put an enormous amount of pressure on our professionals. >> i think it really breaks down something when you look at future administrations. you have deep conspiracies out there, that the government is running without the knowledge of the president. if you have a situation where the people carrying out the operations can't take it to the top, the top elected official in the country, that's worrying for what can happen under national security and future administrations, when we don't have someone that reads the briefings. >> i used to laugh at this deep state narrative. but stuff like this, can create

the impression among the lay reader that there is a deep state. they will act regardless of what the president wants. >> countries are worried about whether you agree with it or not, what is in america's interests. this president is not concerned about what is in america's interests. he has no idea what they do. so, they're not going to necessarily tell him because he'll destroy it all. he has no idea what our shochar is. he is confused. >> to that point is the devillef accountability. there's the deep state things. but where is the accountability. who is accountable if the agencies are focused on one thing and pushing in in one particular way, in terms of our foreign policy with different countries. and we have a history of not, sort of, this lack of accountability. but we have a history of

intelligence agencies doing other actions in other countries. other countries' elections and things, as well, that require accountability. coming up on "up," brand-new polling data from nbc news and "the wall street journal." first, thousands of demonstrators flooding the streets of hong kong, demanding the city's leader resign. sign ♪ sign over... hey, want to try it? ok here you go... over... under... hey whoa, pop, pop... your shoe's untied. ♪ ensure he's well taken care of, even as you build your own plans for retirement. see how lincoln can help protect

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i'm david gura. protesters have flooded the streets of hong kong again today. dressed in black, they're voicing their opposition to a controversial bill. the city's leader said she will not pursue for the time being. >> many members of the public have concerns and doubts about the bill. some kind it difficult to understand why the urgency. and i am happy with the process of the amendments. we have made many attempts to narrow differences and eliminate those. >> according to "the new york times," carrie lam's decision was on a retreat of a political issue, when president xi took over in 2012. that included a week of demonstrations that included violent confrontations between protesters and authorities. now, protesters are calling on carrie lam to step down. the operative phrase here is

suspend indefinitely, isn't it? that's what the chief executive said about the extradition bill. help us understand what the protesters are protesting today. is it related to this legislation? >> it's related to both, actually. there was a sense, we believe among the hong kong government, that by suspending this bill, by shelving it indefinitely, it would appease protesters and develop the rouds crowds the lk and where violence erupted last wednesday. it had almost the opposite effect. it encouraged more people to come into the streets. they say sus spus spending the bill is not enough. it's obvious that carrie lam

cannot govern and should step down. the march wasn't really a march. there were so many people, they were inching along the streets for nearly two miles. the temperatures are quite high today. and we saw a diverse crowd. there were kids and families, and old people. there really does seem to be the sense that this is an issue that is uniting hong kongers. we were asking them why it struck such a nerve. and they believe they are fighting for the future of autonomy here in hong kong. they believe freedom of expression is at great risk, if this extradition bill does go through. and protest organizers were saying they will not stop until they have the two demands met. >> thank you very much, ja anis. protesters concerned about police brutality.

now, fear a crackdown on activists could be on the way. i'm curious where you see this heading. the most people where we've been out today. that's difficult to have the crackdown that's necessary to clear the streets entirely. i worry that beijing is going to call up carrie lam and say, what are you going to do about this? she hasn't spoken about what kind of contact she had with beijing. she visited with the president last year. and they leaned on her to move forward on the things they say hong kong is obliged to do under the basic law that governs the autonomy of the region. she's under pressure from both sides. i can't see her staying on. if she does, it will be with beijing backing her.

there's a historical residence. of course, we have a focus like this a few years back. does it seem different? >> one thing that is different is the amount of coverage. every one of those individuals marching is carrying a cell phone. the images can be blasted and shared with the world in real time. it leaves the hong kong executive with no good operations. the one good option of tracking down has all of what's attached to it. it goes weekend and weekend. the streets being filled of young hong kong citizens. that doesn't work for the regime in beijing. i would imagine there's some serious conversations about the executive and her masters in beijing. >> it will be interesting to see what roll the other powers in the region, what role the united

states has, and getting in touch with carrie lam and talk about her options. if she feels isolated and there's no other option, i think that she may well go forward with it. if they get any warnings if they crack down on the protesters. >> coming from the business community and the government, as well. to see the protests. >> looking at this period we are in, holistically, not only here in america, and in china, and in sudan, in places all across the world, there are people sort of rising up and demanding change an what they believe to be imperial structures, outdated structures. we're in an immense change period that we've been in

before, from a world standpoint. what's going to be interesting to see is how those protesters and those people fighting back change a structure to be more representative of a people. to be more inclusive in our voices. that's one of the things about this protest. this is just one bill, right? now, you have people being out on the streets of what the next ask is. now, you have people have a greater taste for democracy and want to see changes. and what is the next step from there? >> seeing that as nick describes on film or camera. >> some people are filming in hong kong. i said, i don't know what's going on in hong kong. all i know is there were hundreds of thousands -- organizers say up to a million

people in the streets. they haven't left the streets. it's heartening and inspiring for people around the world to see this. then, you start thinking about the social media component that nick mentioned. and you start thinking about egypt. you hope that social media is got for democracy. you have reservations and everything is different. our president doesn't know where hong kong is. and with all of the levers he's pulling with all of the tariffs and the trade war, what can he do in hong kong? >> we head to the g-20 in a few days. "up" continues. ten days away from the first democratic debate in miami. more to come on the match-ups to watch, how the candidates are preparing and how they hope to stand out in a crowded field of 20. i switched to liberty mutual,

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this is "up." i'm david gura. we're getting very close to the first debate of the primary season. there's ten days to go before

the candidates descend on miami for two nights. this is how "the new york times" characterizes in the paper this morning. two nights, four hours and so, so many candidates. the first democratic presidential debates will be like nothing we've ever seen. on night one, june 26th, cory booker, castro, de blasio, amy klobuchar, beto o'rourke and tim ryan, and the top polling candidate, senator elizabeth warren. on night two, michael bennet, joe biden, pete buttigieg, eric swallow, aaron yang. here are what some of the candidates have said about them this weekend. >> i'm really looking forward to having a chance to talk about the things i've been out there for 5 1/2 months. >> we all have to support the 22 people that don't become the nominee, have to support the one

who does. >> i'm grateful that i get a chance to run with these extraordinary people. i am going to do what our families do, to work hard and to scrap and not take anything for granted. >> i'm going to be able to show actions and deeds. i think that will contrast favor mri. >> i'm on the record saying i would be thrilled to stand next to joe biden or bernie sanders to contrast my ideas and energy with theirs. >> beth, i'm going to read more from that "new york times" article i quoted a moment ago. candidates, strategists and party officials analyzed the lineups. is it better to debate on the first night, even if more of the top-tier candidates are on the second night? or is it better to be on the second night and draw blood against the top candidates. look at it. what does it tell you about the shape of the debates? >> i'm excited for both nights. i think it's a great opportunity -- >> you'll be watching both nights. >> i'll be there both nights.

it's an opportunity for every, single candidate. i'm not saying that spinning for our wonderful news organization. the second night, obviously, has the more heavy hitters, one would say, look at polling alone. biden, bernie sanders. the first night doesn't have the starpower but it has all of the people clamoring to get in front of the american people to do so. these candidates, 20 candidates, has an opportunity to step on a national stage to make the case for their candidacy. these guys can use that time and that opportunity to really good effect. if they're prepping, of course, they all are, and they know this is an opportunity they can grab and go with. >> pete, what are you watching for? this is the great win knowing

begins. >> i'm going to be watching for sound bytes. unfortunately, that's how it's going to have to work. you have 20 people on stage. the sound bytes will be -- as a comedian, i understand how important a comeback is, a response, a reaction is. for those people that don't watch the debates, i don't know what you could be doing. but it's the next day. what happens on social media the next day, who gets the big reaction or the best sound byte. that's what the candidates are looking at. why is de blasio there? >> there was somebody up there. who the hell is that? andrew gang. >> i love marion wilson. she brings a different flavor. i'm not sure how -- americans will learn, as you just said, l. joy, a lot of people will learn, because we pay attention for our job, but of those two nights,

who those people are. most of them will be introducing themselves. >> in 30-second increments. watching the debates -- >> he prepares. >> the only thing you can pick up from the candidates is how well they perform under pressure. that's the only thing. you're not going to learn in detail about their policy. you're not going to gel detail about their plan to put everybody back to work, to build our infrastructure. you're not going to get any of that. i wanted to mystify that. >> what's point two? >> point two is there's too many dam people on the stage. the second part is, that looking at both nights, that the trash candidate that you may think is

trash right now, may be tomorrow's nominee. you have to think about and we all have to think about, as advocates, how hard do we want to go in. >> who is your trash candidate? what a harsh word to describe these honorable people. >> that is the team we have to march down the aisle with. there's a real calculations. >> beth, you want to get in h here. >> not to state the audience, but this is crucible for joe biden. he's aashewed to being a big candidate. he's taken himself out of the mix. and this is a time when he can't. he's going to be a target for many of the other opponents. he's never been a front-runner

before. >> is it fair to say there were examples when he was concise and s succinct? >> and to defend himself while not going negative against the rest of the field. up ahead, lawmakers get ready to convene a hearing on reparations as more discuss that issue on the campaign trail. dist issue on the campaign trail. what is that? uh mine, why?

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this is "up." i'm david gura. an article published in "the atlantic," got americans talking for reparations for slavery. candidates for the democratic nomination have talked about that, during this campaign. on capitol hill this week, the house of representatives will hold its first hearing on reparations, in more than a decade, on what is a significant date, june 19th, which commemorates the abolition of slavery in the united states. republican members of the committee have yet to announce the witnesses they will call to that hearing. but critics are crying foul. >> what do you make of the idea of reparations for slavery? >> i think it's fool's gold. it demeans both whites and blacks. to black americans, you can

monetize oppression. the message to black america, your destiny is determined by what white people give you and not what you were able to do for yourself. >> let me start with you. i want to read a quote from back in 2014. to ignore the fact that one of the oldest republics in the world was made on a dual society, is to cover the sin of national plunder with the sin of national lying. i said, that article created a stir. a lot of people read it back in 2014. what has changed in the intervening years, as you hear candidates on the campaign trail engaging in this issue. it is part of this campaign. your reaction to this moment and how this factors into this political moment. >> the one thing i want to do is

it's not just the article. this is a long history. >> john conyers on the study. >> not only from a legislative standpoint, but organizations that have been pushing this issue for a long time. often, we think one thing -- the beginning but the build up of advocates working for this issue for some time. what he did was added some layers in context and put some concrete examples and for housing discrimination. and to tie it neatly together. the governments, federal, state and local governments all conspired to the distributed to this marginalization of african-americans in this country. we're at a point and i described this previously, where african-americans are baning more political and economic

power. we have the ability to push elected leaders to talk about the issues we've been talking about for decades. it's not new. we now have greater political and economic power that demands that people respond to the reparations. >> dovetail this with what we saw yesterday in charleston, last week. his douglas plan, name affidavit frederick douglas. elizabeth warren and entrepreneurship in this country. >> there's a lot of talk about the wealth gap. there was a collection of the democratic candidates in south carolina, specifically to talk about that. when it comes to reparations, yes, they've all been open to the conversation, which is a brand-new thing. we haven't seen this on the national stage for ever. this is new. and yet, they're all stopping a little short of, yes, i embrace

this. there is generally an agreement that there should be a study done. there's legislation in the house who conduct one. and most are getting behind that. filling in the details of who would get the money, how would it be allocated, nobody is ready to go there yet. >> that's what we're looking at with this. the maris poll from 2016. it's a term we are throwing around. to beth's point, haven't been fleshed out. >> no one really knows. the original thinking of it is every black american credits a check of "x" amount to make up for the fact that your ancestors did not get paid for your labor. to rebuild the long-term wealth that was stripped away from us. in the last couple of years, what's changed is we've gone from individual check to changing the structure of how america works. that's what the candidate vts

latched on to, the need for structural change that we haven't had before. we can mix thifix this and this now capped dates feel a pressure to look at the prouder picture in the united states. this will be interesting, not least because of who is on the panel. there's one black woman on the subcommitt subcommittee, co-sponsoring this bill. >> taking the meantle from john conyers. >> and we have jim jordan of freedom caucus. and louis qommer. it will be interesting to see what the republican side does. and how they tried to frame the issue in a way, that does not make their own problems with the african-american community look much work. >> talk about a hearing of the house judiciary committee on the civil rights and civil liberties. hearings happen every day. how does codifying it change this? >> thir haviey're having it on e

juneteenth. i think it all matters. it matters how much the media covers this. is this going to get ratings? do people care about this? it's really important that we have the discussions right now. it's really important that white folks listen right now. we really need to listen and to understand and to read initial alexander's, the new jim crow. to read some of the scholars and try to understand hour history and understand that reparations isn't only about -- i would say it's not primarily about giving money to people of color or people who had ancestors who were discriminated against. there's a generation of hundreds of years. systemic policies that created what we are in now.

the challenge is, this frightening poll have a new years ago. 51% of white americans think that we're the ones who are more discriminated against. that we are the e grieved ones. we have been forgotten and left behind. and until you correct for that, i'm not sure exactly -- i'm not sure how to do it. >> the last thing, too, the video that was played before, about this being -- right. or particularly that you can put an economic or sort of a number on oppression, the reality is that it was about economics. the way we built this country, is based on the economy of slave labor. >> vote was 883 against. wokers at a volkswagen plant voted against union aigs. a look at state of organized labor at a pivotal moment in u.s. history.

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or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith. who we paired with a humana team member to help address his own specific health needs. at humana, we take a personal approach to your health, to provide care that's just as unique as you are. no matter what your name is. ♪ this is "up." i'm david gura. auto workers at a tennessee plant just voted gechbs unionizing.

it highlighted the difficulty of organizing workers. our employees have spoken. it is the latest in a string of losses for the united automobile workers. in 2018, its membership dipped to 395,000. that's down from 430,000 a year earlier. last time was the first time in nine years the union shrank its membership. since the uaw's ranks reached a low during the depths of the great recession. president trump did something he has done a few times. he made public a treaty to keep a manufacturing plant open. it is in coatesville, pennsylvania. and the workers will are also not unionized.

beth, what do does it say to you about the state of the labor movement? the president mocking it on the campaign trail. a couple of democrats talking about it. help us understand the roll it plays in the health of it as you see it today. >> it's been declining for years. and president trump has accelerated the decline -- his administration chipping away at certain labor rights. politically, i have to say, i've seen it reemerge among democratic candidates more robustly than in the past. president obama had been a community organizers and understood the point of solidarity. it wasn't an active part of the discussion throughout that presidency. this campaign, you see the candidates on the picket lines. they're marching with walmart workers and with mcdonald's workers. they are talking about labor built the middle class. bernie sanders, his prominence

has given voice to the conversation. at least on the democratic said, embrace of labor a entheir goals, and not just take thirg money, seems to be a new phase for democrats. >> i want to talk about what goes into the vote. the possibility that a business or its competitors might move production to sporesly unionized southern states can put pressure on workers to accept lower day. there was a sense or a threat, as reported, this could be perilous for the workers. it might mean that the factory could close or move elsewhere. >> that's been a problem since the '80s at the very least. i spent years in flint, michigan. i've seen what happens when these factories close down. on the flip side, you see the rhetoric that comes out of the companies that say, we want to be working with you one-on-one. we're a family. >> have the direct relationship.

>> you see that, not just from the blue collar union group. white collar companies trying to prevent groups from organizing and unionizing, much like buzzfeed news right now. the threat is real. the jobs are going to be shipped off to mexico. >> that's peculiar, the way the president reacts when something like this happens. the factory in philadelphia. the president is upset upset this is happening. >> a president that doesn't understand a day of work. he's never done work that the folks in labor unions have work. he's not sweat or bled. organized labor did build the middle class. and there's a direct correlation to see the wealth inequality

creation in unions. i've looked in this research a lot. 7%, in the unionized sector, 30% in the private sector. these are states exclusively in the south. they call themselves right to work states. the brothers and sisters in the downoncall them right to work for less states. they are making you worried about the future of your job. but everybody knows in the uaw, has a lot more money and better benefits. and volkswagen, a german company, they have labor people on their board. it's interesting to see them do this. >> you have about 30 seconds left. talking about a president trying to bring jobs back. going through that over and over again. >> and again, we see him not focused on the american people.

his conversation is, i liked to this ceo, right? and not i'm concerned about the workers and what they are being faced with. he can use that during his campaign to prevent that from happening. and we don't see an indication that he's able to do that. he's not a strong president on trade or economy, or anything. >> thanks to everyone on the panel here in new york. thanks to nick, as well. >> number one dad, right here. you need a tie to go with that. new data on impeachment and the presidential campaign just days before the candidates have the first debate of 2020. new details and data, next. ta, t

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this is "up." i'm david gura. brand-new polling from nbc news and "the wall street journal." let's get to the data. a lot of that centered on impeachment. more voters believe that congress should begin impeachment proceeds. but as nancy pelosi points out, the country as a whole, is deeply divided on that issue.

27% of americans say there is enough evidence to begin proceedings now. more americans, 48%, oppose starting proceeds. among republicans, a minuscule 6% of those backed impeachment. and 86% surveyed say that president trump should finish his term as president. the president on twitter, blasting low turnout and impeachment protests that duturd out across the country. holding steady here at 44%. if you look at the underpinnings of that number, most of president trump's support comes from republicans. no surprise there. 58% are between 50 and 64 years old. the lowest ratings are from independents, women, latinos and kafr c african-americans. to see how america feels about this moment, the justice department backing up steve mnuchin who has refused to hand

over president trump's tax returns. and even though democratic leadership hope s we we get the movie version. hope hick's testimony will be behind closed doors. president trump is trying to walk back what he said to abc news, that he would accept dirt from foreign sources. and nancy pelosi reacted to what we all heard. >> he doesn't know the difference between right and wrong. and that's probably the nicest thing i can say about him. >> we're in campaign season. if you find he took help from a foreign government, would you launch impeachment proceedings?

let me start with you and let's start with these polling data more broadly here. what do they tell you about this conversation? 27% of americans say this is the time to do this, what does that say about where we are in the conversation in. >> that's a relatively small number, given the constitutional crisis we're in, given how ridiculous this administration is and everything that's in the mueller report. pelosi may say, we're not ready for impeachment. at this point, the democrats are not doing a great job. and messaging to the american people what is going on. at this point, we need a deep public education campaign so

people can be informed and we can get to the bottom of all of the corruption that is presumably kind of being acknowledged. >> why is this so hard? you look at the material and we played what the president said to abc news. the case could be made easily with what we have. what's in the mueller report we've read thus far. why is this such a damage? >> you might have noticed that the country is divided these days. to make a long story short, this is a difficult case to make. they have said, we're going to take months and months building this case. one thing that's interesting hear is there's been an assumption from people in democratic leadership in particular, that the poll numbers are not going to move on this. the fact we've seen 10% movement

in the last month, is not the case at all. and it is a dynamic situation. it's a hard conversation to have. people get their news from different places. not everyone read the mueller report. democrats don't have one message about the mueller report. but the fact there's 10% more impeachment than there was a month ago, suggests this is getting in the bloodstream. it's not realistic to think that impeachment would start tomorrow, but realistic that it might happen down the road. >> there's a message about impeachment. and the messaging, i'm going to nerd out, reading a book on the history of impeachment. this was an animateliing issue. they wanted it to be a dynamic conversation about how we regard our leaders. why is that so difficult. the case could be made for

encountering that term, fighting with that term, as well. >> that's right. democrats need to lead on this. the fact the democratic leadership are wanting to lead them with poll numbers, are part of the broken way that pelosi and many other democrats are thinking about impeachment. in the clip you played, pelosi says, this is a president that doesn't know right from wrong. there's a right choice and the wrong choice, to follow what do the majority of americans want to do, when faced with tremendous wrongdoing from our executive? if democrats want to gain the trust of the american people, they need not to lead on this issue. they have to say, 27% of american want this so, we're not going to do it. they need to start impeachment. it will give them the opportunity to present their case.

it will give them the coverage they need, of a long, slow drip. nobody is answering that question. it's up to nancy pelosi to start these proceedings. >> apoll jis to ramon carer have. aren't we really talking about going ahead with investigation, with more rigger and more detail. what is this look like to nancy pelosi in. >> i think she is worried that the vulnerable democrats will be penalized in their districts. i don't believe that's the case at this point. you're right, jill. the democrats need to lead on this. here in a situation where this isn't about political posturing and who might lead a seat or

two, come 2020. we have a president who is literally sitting in the white house saying, i'll take foreign aid. i won't disclose it. we have a white house right now that's not doing anything about the fact that russia has meddled in our elections and is probably doing the same thing again now. we're literally in a place where i think there's an opportunity for the democrats to be far beyond the politics on the ground and say, guys, this is about the preservation of our democracy and we're goingalculo will be 2020 losing a couple of seats or the future of our democracy? >> it seems like the worst of washington that people perceive it. i talked down with julio castro

and talking about where he wants to be. he's not looking ahead a year or two years. he's looking 20 years' time. that's the point you're making. it's a world question. and you have to consider it with a longer time horizon. >> we can square the circle here. this message is good political messaging for the short run. what democrats might be risking here, is getting into a situation where the base is disillusioned with them. this long-term thinking, it's not just the house. they don't want donald trump to be re-elected. we have to understand there's reasons to be skeptical of that caution. they are thinking long-term. if they don't think of this in terms of potentially allowing trump to be re-elected,

democrats will never hold the white house again. that's a perspective. >> last question to you, as someone who talks about impeachment. there's some data about elizabeth warren. a combined 64% of those surveyed say they are comfortable or enthusiastic about her candidate. a combined 27% have some reservation which is down 33%. this is written about in politico, as well. president trump was going after joe biden for a long time. when you look at the populist mantle, this and impeachment is part of this, is a message that's rez lasonating in this country. >> warren has been on the forefront of the messaging. her pole numbers show that is a strong message. there's a number of people who

say, i love her. i would love her to be president but i don't think she can win. that's reflective how many of us have become minibun dit minipun. where might this affect a voter in ohio. should we impeach or not? who do i support in the democratic primary? my ask to voters, people who responded in the polls, is to think about what is exciting to you? and the more voters think in terms of that question, what do i actually find resonates with me, the more you see warren grow in popularity, and the more i suspect that impeachment would seem realistic and the right course forward.

>> a good and humble question. they may be unpaid presidential advisers. coming up, the many sources of income that is jared kushner and ivanka trump and the controversy surrounding the two of them. sy surrounding the two of them. this time, it's his turn.

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on the nation's largest gig-speed network for less than at&t. that's 120 dollars less a year. better, faster. i mean sign me up. comcast business. beyond fast. this is "up." i'm david gura. on friday, the white house released new financial disclosures for members of the administration, including cabinet secretaries. the forms show incomes and the

value of their assets in broad ran ranges. and they have broad arrangements and purchases they have made, while in office, and gifts received. according to "the post," the president's daughter and his son-in-law has assets ranging from $181 million and $755 million. that's according to the disclosures. ivanka trump, as she did in 2017, earned $3.9 million last year. i say earned from her stake in the trump international hotel in washington, a popular gathering spot for republicans and those with business before the trump administration. according to reports, jared kushner is carrying between $29 million and $135 million in debt. they are advisers to the president. but last year, they took in between 29 and $135 million xined. that was from real estate holdings, investments and book royalties. the numbers are down from 2017,

when the white house financial reports indicated they made between 82 and $222 million. this is a thick thing. more than 60 pages in length. what does it tell us new, as you look through this and you see the level of investments and the debt that she and her husband have. >> it tells us something that we need to talk about. the fact you have this family continuing to enreach themselves on the backs of the american people. first of all, this trump hotel, where they bring in people all over the world, and spend all of this money and make money on the back end, it's illegal. we need to be talking a lot more, that this is unprecedented that you have the trumps that have not guy vedie vested or us

blind trusts. we're hanging out in the white house. what are you going to do about it? they buck at the democrats and say, i pair you dare you to que. they are able to enrich themselves. none of us should be joking about this. serious stuff and i want to read something about the disclosures. ivanka amended her disclosure eight times. jared kushner amended his four dozen times. i was speaking about the broad range on these documents. >> one of the reasons we have to keep talking about this, is the depth has not sunk in with the american people. this is a conversation that we have been having. we, the reporting class for 2 1/2, three years because this

is a massive scandal. every other president's family has devested everything they own. it's an indication that we don't know everything. we won't know things for a while. that's the point. it's very hard for people to comprehend the full degree of what we're looking at here. >> we can't forget that. that's deliberate in a way. the president talks about how transparent he's been, releasing the disclosure form for this. it's impenetrable. we've gone from talking quaintly about a president's peanut farm, to talk about a woman who has trademarks in two dozen countries around the world. the magnitude of that is so different than what it was like before. >> that's the story of this administration, right? the magnitude of the wrongdoing, of the conflicts of interest, of the lies, of the misstatements.

it's so huge, it overwhelms the press and the public. we are unable to digest it. this is a prime example of that. and the average american people has no concept of the wealth that the trump family has. these documents are so far removed from what i comprehend in my own life and my own financial life. and because there's so much of this, because the trump administration is so unapologetic, when reporters like those at "the washington post," do spend the time to comb through it, they don't get the whole story and we're so overwhelmed and exhausted by this tremendous amount of information and wrongdoing, that it's hard for any of it to land. you have so many scandals, you have no scandals because none of them actually resonate. >> i'll ask you lastly. there was a piece in "the new

york times." focusing on elaine chao, wife of mitch mcconnell. that's a story that dropped last week and nobody is talking about it. >> elaine show has so much business in china, has always had business in china, very wealthy, happens to be the wife of mitch mcconnell who is getting rich through whatever is going on with this administration because we're not digging into it. such a huge -- this could have been a massive, massive scandal all on the front pages. why aren't we talking about this? just keep reporting. we need legislative journalists to be digging deep and calling out what is happening in improprie improprieties. we lose as a society when we get overwhelmed that we just stop asking questions.

the message allows us the opportunity to ask the questions. you have an unapologetic administration. all of the cabinet secretaries that are getting rich and no one is coming for them around it. it's time we start in more vigor. >> because of reporting, elaine chao did sell her shares in companies that do a lot of business in the field of transportation. >> forget iowa and new hampshire, there's another state that's the center of the 2020 australia. the candidates barn storm south carolina. and the man challenging the president, bill weld, here in new york. ♪

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this is "up." i'm david gura. this week and next, candidates will be spending a lot of time in south carolina. this weekend, four contenders spoke at a forum at charleston. cory booker, elizabeth warren, beto o'rourke and pete

buttigieg. some 200 miles up i-26, if i'm not mistaken. tell us what was discussed and the plans released during the week were talked about during that forum yesterday. >> you saw the candidates with their plans to improve prospects. south carolina is the state where democratic primary voters will have a chance to check the relative strengths and weaknesses of the candidates, with american voter s. just this morning, a new poll that paints a familiar picture, interesting terms in the south. we see joe biden with still a very large lead over the rest of the field. his numbers are slipping month-to-month. emerging a second-place threat.

elizabeth warren sneaking up on bernie sanders. we see joe biden with commanding numbers among african-american voters. until the others do better with black voters, it's joe biden's to lose. they want to see a fresher face out there. on the trail today, just one last thought, beto o'rourke, the only candidate of the 23 out today, starting his day meeting with the south carolina state senator who happens to own a krispy kreme franchise. we came prepared. >> garrett haake, thank you very

much. from the democratic candidates from the republican candidates for president. yes, my use of the plural there was deliberate. bill weld is running against president trump. i'm glad he's here in new york. matt welch, says you're all alone in the bug on trump's windshield running. i think the president has difficulty distinguishing right from wrong. and grounds removal from office, is way past what dick nixon did. president trump has written new law in terms of illegality. >> how much are you talking

about impeachment? i tell them i'm an economic conservative. i was the most fiscally conservative governor in the united states, as a republican in massachusetts. i believe that climate change is real and not a hoax. there's a lot of differences between me and donald trump. i say, we're two, big, orange men with nothing in common. >> what does your home look like? what does the party look like today? when you look at the edifice, how changed is it? >> i think the nicest thing that can be said, is what john boehner said earlier in the week. he was asked about the republican party. he said the republican party is taking a nap. >> when you look at your beliefs, are they more aligned with some members of the democratic party? where you stand gun policy, for

example. there's other things that would be in the other house. >> i would be to the right on spending and education, probably on guns, as well. certainly on social issues. i was out there by myself for 20 years. i came out for gay and lesbian rights for 20 years. >> have you talked to larry hogan or others thinking about running? i'd like to know what is being considered. i talked to hogan and kasich. keep doing what you're doing.

this is doing it for us. >> are you surprised that you are showing up quite a bit? people assumed that john kasich was going to do this. and larry hogan were looking at it seriously. >> john has a new job. and governor hogan has been re-elected. it's tough for a sitting governor to run. i don't suffer from a big new job or being elected governor. i think it's way important. i invilted them to get in. the more the merrier. >> what do you know about donald trump that we don't know? >> occasionally you would bump

into the donald and melania. and i'm familiar with his business reputation in new york, which is being the most dishonest business person in new york or new jersey. new york is easy. but being more dishonest in new jersey, you have to be more dishonest than the mob guys. their word is good. if they say they will shoot you, they shoot you. >> i'm interested in the base. where your base would be or how you can penetrate this republican base that is extremely moved to the right. we wonder, what happened -- you said they're sleeping. what happened to all of the republicans who had a conscious, who are people of faith, the evangelicals, the values. i'm curious what you're saying to try to appeal to that?

>> how are you going to appeal to the committee people? i'm not. there's 20 states that permit crossover voting. that's part of the strategy. with issues like the deficit and climate change, the millennials are going to reap the whirlwind if those issues are not addressed. mr. trump is not doing his job at all. he told the leaders in congress, you can investigate or legislate. if you investigate me or my finances, i'm not going to play ball. that's like saying, i abdicate my role of president of the united states. i think the ground is ripe to initiate impeachment proceedings. i don't think people understand

that the nixon impeachment took ten months in the house. you don't go to the senate and get a vote right away. you have a trial in the senate, adam schiff and other house members would be appointed to go prosecute the case in the senate. that takes another six or eight months. you're past the election. the republicans don't control the timing there in the senate. >> let me ask you lastly here. you watched the abc news interview. there was a vacuum where one wondered if the republicans in the house and senate would say anything. and it took them a long time before they did. why is that the case? you have principled republicans who are in lockstep with the president. how did that come to pass? not articulating opposition to what they know is morally and legally wrong.

>> all i can think is everyone in washington is obsessed with being re-elected. the two parties are almost trying to kill each other. their base will get stirred up and give them more money. it's a vicious circle. it doesn't do the people any good whatsoever. >> he admitted he would accept dirt from a foreign government. that's not the only headline coming out of the interview with president trump. the controversies being stirred by donald trump has he makes more news this morning. "fresh take" just ahead. take" . i don't keep track of regrets. and i don't add up the years. but what i do count on... is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink

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donald trump. the phrase no collusion comes up. >> i have a phony witch hunt. mueller comes out, there's no collusion and a ruling no obstruction. and they keep going with it. people are angry about that. >> i don't think that's what he found. >> that's what he found. no collusion and he didn't find anything having to do with obstruction because they made a ruling based on his findings and they said no obstruction. >> he didn't examine collusion. >> are you trying to say collusion now? the report said no collusion. >> did you read the report? >> yes, i did. you should read it, too. let's go. >> the president can't obstruct justice. >> the president can run the country. that's what happened, george. i run the country and run it well. >> when the president does it, it's not illegal? >> the president under article two is strong. read it.

if you answer these questions to me now, why not answer them to robert mueller under oath? >> they were looking to get us for lies for the slight misstatements. i look at what happened to people and it was very unfair. very, very unfair. very unfair. you're not worried about being prosecuted after you leave office? >> by my count, he said no collusion five times. what did we learn about the result of this interview? the gift that keeps on giving. it was a rich interview in the bizarre honesty with how he talks about this investigation. we can't to see that the president has no understanding of what's going on around him. he said, there's no collusion. and george is like, that's not what he said. did you read the report?

he said that wasn't his charge to look into collusion. i'm watching them saying, is this a skit from "saturday night live"? i'm thinking, are we being punk'd? donald trump is punk'ing us and gaslighting us. it's very sad and scary. >> the thing we heard from the president, you can't impeachment. things are going great. the economy is going great. how long is that going to be resonant with people in. >> there's a reason during the midterms, they trying to impeach me. he thinks this resonates. when you look at the substance he is saying there. there's striking things that you can notice. the idea that mueller found no collusion. this is the same interview that

the president said, i would accept help from a foreign power. that's the definition of collusion, not that it is a legal term. that's what people are talking about. he's going to lean on the same thing. he'll continue to say no collusion. the president plays his greatest hits. we've had this conversation, everyone has. he thinks that the impeachment is a politic aal proceeding has sunk in on the american people, he says this is political and i'm great politically, he can rely on that. >> let's dwell on the pregnant cause, when george stephanopoulos asked him why he wouldn't sit down with mueller and it's your understanding of engagement with this investigation. that was an illuminating thing for that reason. things get mixed up and he's confused about what he was asked to do.

later, he said he answered the questions he was asked. >> he is somebody that sees the presidency as a platform for power. i don't think he concedes of himself as a public servant. z >> pack to my statement. >> he's treated the presidency the way he's treated his businesses. he's the top dog, the top of the heap. and it doesn't matter to him how things get done, as long as he benefits and people totally up to him. he treats the white house the same way. he won't be able to articulate why he was advised by his lawyers and sit down under oath. this is a man who lies when he opens his mouth. you heard him say that, that it's very unfair that people who are lied unoath get in trouble for that.

>> as he accused the white house counsel of lying. >> he can be held potentially legally accountable, he would be in tremendous. he doesn't. that's the extent to which he seems able to comprehend and speak about these issues, which is quite scary. i don't watch a lot of tv. for my own personal stress levels. every time i see the president when i'm forced to watch him speak, i do have this moment, of oh, my god. many, many of my citizens. and the reaction is, this guy should run our country. this is a terrifying cartoon of a person who, sure, maybe should be funny on reality tv. but that would be the extent we should have movement over anything. and that is a profound divide

over the united states, of what we think the job of a president is, and what we believe our public servants to be. and i find it terrifying. >> right here, the president tweeting about polling. read it. i go back to the peter baker column a few weeks back. you look at pst presideast pres faced impeachment. it had a chilling effect on him and that white house, the fact that was in the water, in the conversation. yet, you have this president going out there and talking about it as much as he can, engaging with george stephanopoulos the way he did. help us understand that tact that the president is taking here. the way the president thinks about his job, it's political. his advisers told him, if you talk about impeachment, you will rile up your own business. coming up, the president

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the darkest times of my liech. even once i came home it was still very challenging for me to get a job. >> these people want to work. they want the best outcome, and i'm so happy to be here today amongst people that want the same thing. >> this is up, i'm david gura, and this week president trump hosted an event that will help inmates once they get out of prison. kim kardashian was also at the white house. president trump is calling for the expansion of an education department pilot program that would allow former inmates to apply for federal jobs and affordable housing. the question in all this is the administration getting serious about criminal justice reforms or is it all just 2020 politics? >> when you look at these 2 1/2 years where there's any semblance of bipartisan

consensus it has been on this issue. >> i think that's great news and a testament to incredible work of criminal justice advocates who have been doing this work for years and years, decades and decades. and the act we finally made inroads within the republican party is a huge success and i think it's good to take a moment and celebrate that. that said, the trump administration is clearly using this as a wedge for 2020 as part of their efforts to undermine joe biden. they saw how tying hillary clinton to the 1994 crime bill which she didn't vote for and wasn't in office for ended up being a fairly successful strategy to kind of undermine her democratic base support. and you can already see the building blocks being put in place now to do the same thing for joe biden. regardless of the fact donald trump himself spent tens of thousands of dollars taking out racist ads in "the new york times" calling for the return of the death penalty. this is clearly trump's effort to make himself seem not racist, to make himself seem like he

actually cares about these issues. you know, what you will note, though, is what the trump administration is not doing. this is, what, the third commemoration of the same law, essentially. he's not doing anything new at this point. these programs aren't getting adequately funded. and as important as it is for formerly incarcerated people to have jobs -- he is not making many of the sort of very, very crucial steps to make sure that, for example, formerly incarcerated people can vote because that would be very damaging to his party. and so i think keeping an eye on the initiatives he supports, which are essentially very business friendly initiatives and not necessarily focused on the actual needs of the formerly incarcerated tells us a lot about what this is about. >> you were at this forum yesterday in charleston, and leading up to that event one

died a survey about black americans, how they felt about the economy and also american society in this day and age. when we look at criminal justice 59% of those survade feel ensuring americans with prior convictions to get jobs is an extremely important priority. help us understand what that information tells us about these efforts, how they square with what the president's been saying. >> honestly i don't know they do. i think jill is absolutely right. there have been people aggressively working on criminal justice reform for decades and for one deal with the sentencing issues and secondly to support people as their reentering am. this administration is doing a dog and pony show as they always do. i think african-americans, we're not fools. we understand this administration has absolutely done nothing, for the most part, to deal with the racial

aggression and animus that this president has perpetuated in america. and so this is their only play to say, look, this we've got this one criminal justice thing over here. look, i'm helping kim kardashian west and kanye say this is good, too. and really create this specter that the administration in some way is caring about the outcomes of black peoples lives, but the vast majority of what they do suggests otherwise. the devil is always in the details. i'd hate for us to get to a place where anyone looks at this as the president making deep inroads in the black community. >> thanks very much. coming up at the top of the hour joy reid faces ten of the 2020 candidates. and jonathan capehart is here to tell you all about it. here to tell you all about it. 300 for $359/month for 36 months.

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beyond work and life... who else could he be? there is the moment. beyond technology... there is human ingenuity. ♪ ♪ every day, comcast business is helping businesses go beyond the expected, to do the extraordinary. take your business beyond. that does it for me today. happy father's day. happy father's day shout out to my producers who could be having breakfast in bed but they were helping me out this morning. i appreciate that. jonathan capehart is in for joy. we are fighting the fake news. it's fake, phony, fake. they are the enemy of the people. >> good morning, and welcome to "am joy." it's been four years to the day

ever since he's been no stranger to attacking and undermining the free press. well, it happened again last night. this time trump accused "the new york times" of committing, quote, a virtual act of treason after the newspaper reported that the u.s. has escalated cyber attacks against russia's electric power grid. "the new york times" replied to trump late last night tweeting, quote, accusing the press of treason is dangerous. "the times" also noted that administration officials believed trump had not been briefed over details of the program because they were afraid he would tip off russian officials. "the times" reported, quote, pentagon and intelligence officials described broad hesitation to go into detail with trump about operations of russia for concern of his reaction and the possibility he might countermand it or discuss it with foreign officials as he did in 2017 when he mentioned a sensitive operation in russia to the -- in