at graham thorton. i will see you back here tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. with stephanie and 3:00 p.m. eastern. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in morning. it's a long, long, long way to hope and change and hope and justice but here we are. blocking trump aide hope hick from answering questions about her time in the white house and if our reactions from our reporters are any indication, tiptoed the white house line. >> hope, did the president obstruct justice? is the white house letting you answer any questions today? >> why is the white house limiting your tim so much?

>> i love my colleague kasie hunt even more now. jut department lawyer claiming hicks that's immunity from answering questions since she used to be a member of the executive branch, an argument democrats say is bogus. >> i'm watching obstruction of justice in action. you have the white house inserting immunity which is not a thing, it doesn't exist. you have to ask the question, what are they trying to hide from the american people? >> it just take it's to the court and waste taxpayers' dollars and you will just see the president say, this is taking too long, and the reason it's taking too long is because it's a team of obstructers. >> the president is continuing to engage in a cover-up to try to prevent congress from finding the facts. >> there's no question

democratless contindemocrats will continue to push for answers from hicks from her time from the white house. she's a key witness who is cited several hundred times in the mueller report, including trump's reaction of the mueller investigation. quote, when sessions told the president that a special counsel had been appointed, the president slumped back in his chair and said oh, my god, this is terrible. this is the end of my presidency, i'm f'd. the president told sessions he should resign at attorney general. sessions submitted his resignation and left the oval office. hicks saw the president shortly after sessions departed and described the president as being extremely upset. hicks said she had only seen the president like that one other time, when the "access hollywood" tape came out during the campaign. and his patience with hicks runs thin. so does patience with special counsel robert mueller and his reluctance to appear on capitol hill.

>> in terms of bob mueller, he's going to have to testify, and he can testify voluntarily or he can testify under subpoena, but it's going to have to happen. i don't think a two-year investigation of this magnitude followed by a written report in a ten-minute statement without questions satisfactorily answers the many, many questions we have about the investigation. so i also think time and patience are running out on that front. >> mueller's elusively triggering our friend joe scarborough this morning in his questions house intel committee jim himes. >> millions and millions of dollars will pay for your report. not everybody, bob, is going to read it! so you read it for them! like this is seriously -- i'm tell what you, as you can tell, i'm a little -- this is outrageous that this guy has not been dragged to capitol hill to

talk. >> that's all i got to say. >> two things to say, number one, it's going to happen. he's going to get subpoenaed. we have a profound interest inside the intelligence committee hearing about something we have not heard nearly enough. by the way, it will be behind closed doors. it will not necessarily be newsworthy. >> why? why will it be behind closed doors? >> because we care about in the intelligence community the counterintelligence investigation. so that's totally separate. >> what is going to be public? >> what you're talking about animatedly is getting bob mueller, because for all of the reasons you state, getting bob mueller to say what he said in the report, which by the way he said he would do. he said my testimony is in that report. as you point out, an awful lot of people have not gotten through the near 500 pages so there's virtue in that. >> it's time for all of us to speak animatedly. that's where we start with some of our favorite reporters and friends. with us on set former democratic senator claire mccase kill, nbc

news correspondent heidi pris bella, jonathan lemire and also joining us former u.s. attorney joyce vance and frank . tell us why they are coming out of a concerted five-act play to cover up the result of the mueller report by attorney general william barr. they lost all of the team from that revelation, any momentum they had and the white house seems to be getting his way by evidence of hope hicks, not even answering questions while walking the halls of capitol hill. it's ludicrous. >> definitely civility to robert mueller and his adherence to protocol and apolitical appearance has not served us well. it worked well a few years back but we're in a society that

watches tv, gets our news from whatever particular network we watch or from our neighbors or colleagues and we need to see something play out in front of us. it's sad but true and i think bob mueller absolutely does need to testify. it's time, it's past time for him to talk about his report to all of the american public. and as much of that testimony needs to be an open hearings, not behind closed doors. >> joyce vance, robert mueller found donald trump committed crimes, that he committed ten acts of obstruction of justice. robert mueller also found russia attacked our democracy to help donald trump. these are two really simple truths. these are two -- elizabeth warren was able to boil them down into a sentence. why can't democrats? >> that's really been a challenge for democrats. they've never been effective with the pen as president trump is on twitter. maybe they should try limiting the number of characters and doing it it that way but the reality is when you're talking

about complex issues, and these are, for instance, i would take issue with the fact mueller found ten issues of obstruction. i think he had evidence to move on four. you can see doing the top-line explanation, it takes time, being sensible, having good policy, understanding the law. it takes time. so the real challenge for democrats is getting the attention of the country for long enough that we can engage in something more substantive than a tweet. >> i'm going to say something that is going to keep my off twitter for a week. when democrats lose elections, this is why. what joyce just said i'm sure is accurate. but the opposite of i can't say crimes were committed is to a political communicator crimes were committed. and if democrats don't have the you no he what to assert that and let people -- let the president's lawyers go out and say he did and found ten instance between a nexus and occurrence and proceeding were not exactly met, but let trump

explain that crime wasn't committed in the obstruction section. >> and the idea mueller doesn't believe he has a responsibility to communicate further about this report. he know what's barr did. this is not a dumb man. he knows barr totally screwed him in terms of the way he put the report out there before mueller had a chance to have his summary or to have his conclusions presented in a fair way. >> right. >> so here's the deal, you've got to come. here's my thing to the house judiciary committee, don't even talk to me about impeachment if you can't manage to get mueller in front of your committee. jerry nadler needs to quit doing press conferences on the need for impeachment and start explaining to the american people why a subpoena wasn't issued the next day. >> that's such a good point. have called and told him that? >> no, i haven't. >> can we call him? >> let's get him on the phone. >> it's a per setup. why are we debating impeachment when we can't even get robert mueller to capitol hill?

>> that was the very first question when the report came out okay, when are you going to come sit in the chair and tell us about it? even from jerry nadler's perspective, that is what he told us would happen and it is beyond me as a reporter because i'm plugged in to all of the sources up there who you need to be talking to on this as to why there is such a long lag on this other than, i'm sorry, there's only one explanation, which is the leadership made the calculation that the numbers are not there, even though they could eventually move. they don't want to have this show right now. they want to push it off as far as possible because they don't want to actually do impeachment. they don't want to do it. >> i guess jonathan lemire, the point to all of this is hope hicks strolling around the capitol saying nothing to kasie hunt is a perfect a symbol of this moment as anything. hope hicks who's quoted in the mueller report close to 100 times, who witnessed all of the scrutiny, all of the conduct

under scrutiny, not just the president's reaction saying i'm f'd when mueller was appointed but the incidents i understand he's most concerned about, getting sessions to unrecuse, all of the conflict and internal strife with don mcgahn, who was the one asked to carry out a lot of the president's code reds, if you will. why is she up there saying nothing? >> hope hicks today in her testimony wouldn't talk at her about her time in the white house. she would not even confirm where her desk was in the west wing. >> why not? >> she said that's part of the privilege. she doesn't have to speak about it. she wouldn't even confirm where she sat. to me that's emblematic of the approach the white house is taking. they're not going to cooperate. they're going to stonewall. they will not say anything or if they do the bear minimum and in this case she said nothing to kasie hunt in the hallway. this is what they're going to do. the president back to the mueller prart, we've been saying this all along. we know how anxious he is about

the idea of mueller appearing in public. even if he doesn't go much beyond his reading from the report, they know the weight his words would carry, this is someone who the american public has heard from exactly once in two-plus years since he got the job and that was a riveting display. that news conference he held. imagine that comes more if he sat there a few hours in capitol hill in congress talking about what he found, and perhaps go -- maybe he would go further to rebut what william said. >> you don't need mueller it do all the work tlxt were actually close to two dozen skilled prosecutors who could sit on -- sit next to him and if there were different individuals, different investigators who questioned hope hicks or don mcgahn, i don't think mueller would question either of them. you can deputize others to tell the story. >> and there is a big

constitutional question that will get to the forefront. clearly the white house believes they have a supreme court that will go places no one anticipates with executive privilege. they're not saying it's executive plinch and, joyce, please correct me if i get any of the legal stuff wrong. they're not saying plinch because she's already testified, she talked about this to someone else. so they're trying to say this is an immunity from talking. this is an open question of law. my question to my former colleagues in congress, republicans and democrats, really, you're going to let the executive branch go this far? you're equipment going to say we're going to lay down and let the executive branch say we get to decide who can tell you anything about what we're doing on the public's behalf? >> that's just it. they're undermining congress's very role, not just the political evaluation in the short term. >> and president trump, they're absolutely screwing the congressional branch of power for maybe a long, long time.

>> and trump will coach pushing it. >> that's why my republican friends need to wake up and smell the coffee. >> if you listen to the democrats today, david cicilline, eric swalwell, they say that's it, we're going to court. we passed this resolution previously to give us the power to go to court and enforce these subpoenas so here we come. the problem is even if they use every lever of power that they have available to them right now, the mission of slow walking this is achieved by the republicans. >> and let me just press you on this idea, claire. it seems as though nancy pelosi's last pronouncement about trump is i'm not going to even answer him. it's interesting and ironic she won't even answer him when he's taking her lunch, he is schooling her. he's stripping her of her authority. he's stripping her of her power and has her 24/7 whipping the impeachment count and monitoring tracking poll like he monitors tv ratings. he's beating pelosi on the impeachment question. >> on the question of who has

more power in our checks and balances system, this is unprecedented what this president is doing. i mean this is a guy who campaigned and said no more executive orders. executive orders are terrible. i used to listen to all of my colleagues on the right in the senate go on and on about obama using executive power. i mean, holy cow, i mean, he was like a piker in executive power compared to what this white house is trying to do. not even letting somebody testify why their desk was? >> i guess my question is why? is he in their head? i understand why the republicans do it. they're too wimpy to sustain and survive a mean tweet y do the democrats do it? >> i think the democrats are trying. i think you've got one of the things nancy pelosi has to do is her cats, you have a lot of committees, a lot of jurisdictional committees.

it's bizarre. i saw it in the senate. one chairman would get up in arms because another chairman was talking about things. you look at immigration. there are four committees in the senate who have jurisdiction over immigration. no wonder we can't fix immigration. >> like high school. >> we can't decide who's in charge. so i think that's part of the problem. but i think she's got to realize that she's got to get more focused on the issue of getting the facts in front of the american people first with mueller and then as quickly as possible getting them to court. by the way, i'm not sure it works to their benefit, if they get a supreme court decision like next april or may, that the president can't do this, that probably is more damaging to the president than a supreme court decision. >> they've got some time for the court system to come to the rescue. >> and maybe closer to the election, i'm just talking from a political perspective, it's better for the democrats. >> i agree with you on that too. i think worrying about the politics now is so shortsighted, do the right thing. do the right thing, democrats. politics take care of themselves.

>> and we all know politics change. >> right. >> who knows where we will be six months, eight months from now. >> southern district may indict him for campaign finance violations. he's already an unindicted co-conspirator there. i believe we have new sound of chairman nadler talking about what he got from hope hicks. do we have that? not yet. here's what he said. i have the transcript. here we go. here's chairman nadler on the hicks' testimony. >> i thought you just told someone you were doing that. >> no. the white house is having this doctrine of absolute immunity, which we will destroy in court, doesn't mean she's -- >> as of right now you haven't decided if you're taking miss hicks to court? >> go with that.

>> i don't know if you want to do translation there. the transcript is a little more helpful. they will go to cost over this question of immunity. is that what you got? >> yeah, i think that's what he said. not clearly and not forcefully. would i have liked him to stop and go, we are taking them to cost right now and we're going to eat their lunch in court. >> not clearly and not forcefully has been the democrats' issue throughout this process. >> i agree, it's frustrateling. >> joyce vance, immunity is not a thing, what is everyone talking about? what is she under immunity from? i don't understand congress to be querying her about anything she hasn't already testified to to robert mueller. what does she want immunity from? >> that's the point senator mccaskill makes, there's no executive privilege being saerted because this has been asked and answered and sent out to the public. that is failed argument. now they seized on this notion she's immune from discussing absolutely anything that

happened during her financial tenure in t official tenure in the white house. let me put an end right here and debunk that myth. what you have to have for a successful claim of immunity in this setting is you have to have a clean record. here where there's plenty of predicate that indicates hicks is being asked to testify about criminal activity, there's no reason to apply immunity, no precedents for applying it. what happened in the obama administration was an effort to look into someone with no predicate of criminal conduct. here 488 pages in the mueller report say hope hicks has to answer questions. >> and frank florida gluzy, one of the time periods she did answer was the period before the transition before the trump presidency, which is obviously the trump tower meeting took place, all of the conduct that was under scrutiny in volume one of the mueller report was in

place and there had been some news reports from various organizations she would be asked about the hush money operation that the southern district of new york investigated. what sort of -- what are those lines of inquiries saying to you? >> well, they're pursuing criminality involving the president directly and her knowledge of it. they are trying to lay the foundation for the possibility of high crimes and misdemeanors and possibility of an impeachment. i think hope hicks that's to be very careful here. while she wouldn't apparently allegedly answer a question -- simple question of, hey, is the mueller report accurate with regard to what you said, she wouldn't answer that, she may be concerned about giving multiple divergent statements that could get her jammed up and that would be an interesting scenario to be concerned about, self-incrimination, of course, but where i see this going is they're going to focus squarely on conduct she can talk about

involving the president, crimes involving the president, her knowledge of them. hope hicks is not going away. you're going to see her called to testify in grand juries in the state of new york, in manhattan, and she's going to be a player for the next few years. up fortunately or fortunately on our tv screens. >> frank, let me just follow up on one thing i remember her saying i believe in front of the house intel committee. she admitted to telling lies for donald trump. how does that square with all of the exposure she faces in front of the grand juries you just described in those various jurisdictions? >> right. she's guaranteed to be called before -- before a number of grand juries. she's going to have to tell the truth or risk criminal exposure herself, and that's where the power is. in this whole discussion we have been having so far on the show, nicolle, about the deflation of the democrat inparty, the house kind of being impotent right now or feeling that way, the power

is shifting squarely to new york, to other jurisdictions and prosecutions of the president that will get this material out, that's where i'm going to be focused and as for whether or not the democrats have the power and intestinal fortitude to move forward, they're not doing it fast enough. they don't understand this is truly a crisis. we're in a battle for three equal branches of government and they're losing that battle now. >> good a place to pause as any. joyce advance and frank, thank you for starting us off. when we come back, tuesday's throwback rally proves nothing has changed including who donald trump thinks he's running against in 2020. also ahead one of the most offensive chapters of donald trump's prepresidency back in the spotlight. donald trump on the central park five. and kamala harris has another breakout moment right here on this network. we will bring it to you. i'm still going for my best... even though i live with a higher risk of stroke

due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin, i'll go for that. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. what's next? sharing my roots. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. eliquis, the number one cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ask your doctor if eliquis is what's next for you.

the first survivor of ais out there.sease and the alzheimer's association is going to make it happen. but we won't get there without you. visit alz.org to join the fight.

[ giggling ] ♪li'm a slick chickp♪ [ doorbell ] [ slap ] your nails! xfinity home... cameras. xfinity home... disarm the system. door's open. morning... welcome to the neighborhood. do you like my work? secure your home with x1 voice control. and have professional monitoring backing you up with xfinity home. demo at an xfinity store, call or go online today.

hillary clinton and the dnc, the insurance policy just in case hillary clinton lost. remember during one of the debates when crooked heldry sil said the free pass they gave to hillary and her aides. hillary used the word deplorables. hillary clinton made a big mistake with that speech. >> okay. lean in. don't tell trump but it's about 953 days since hillary clinton was a presidential candidate. believe it or not, she's not running in 2020.

that didn't stop trump though from mentioning her name more than half a dozen times before acknowledging a single democrat who is actually running in 2020. that's last night's rally in a nutshell for you. no new announcements, no shift in rhetoric. more look back than look forward and at times it was hard to remember what year it is. >> drain the swamp. drain the swamp. the system is rigged. the system is rigged. crooked hillary clinton. crooked hillary clinton. crookery, broken hillary clinton. >> last night's rally in orlando was trump's 16th campaign style arena event, his seventh in florida where he's behind in the polls and second one he's done in that city. it was nearly indiscernible than any of the ones that came before it. "the new york times" put it's, quote, by the end of trump's 76-minute speech, there were patches of blue seats visible across the arena. some supporters left the rally

early, maybe because they had seen it before. joining the conscious, just back from orlando, white house bureau chief of the "the washington post" phil rucker, senior adviser to move on.org, corinne jean-pierre. phil, what did you see? >> it felt like deja vu for both of us who covered the 2016 campaign because it was the same populous messages, same grievances, same lines even and same response with the crowd s. and the same logo. it was 2016 all goeover again a it was the kickoff for his election. it's been a nonstop four-year political campaign for donald trump and i think it will continue that way until election day in 2020. >> corinne, reading their own reviews after a restaurant opening, here's one from "new york" magazine -- obviously talking about everything he

talks about trump got most of it wrong in one way or another, intentionally or accidently or whatever the word is for doing something accidentally and not caring about the accident. he lied, exaggerated and misinterpreted. he spoke in a particularly bountiful hyper specific and yet somehow meaningless style in the speech. i think that's one of the best descriptions i have ever read of trump, but how do you confront that? >> that's a good question. i watched it last night. i didn't want to but i do. >> like that run you don't want to go on but you do. >> that's right. it was just a reminder of 2016 as others said but it has also basically laid out how awful it would be in 2020? it was 2016 times 10. that was the fear and ugliness you saw there. i would say in 2016 -- and

people have said this, i'm not the first to say it, he didn't know he was going to win. he was doing it and it was fun and there was nothing attached to t he was just out there. this time around he's a desperate man. he needs to get re-elected. when you have a desperate man, a desperate person, it is going to be a wild, disgusting, ugly ride. he knows if he cannot get re-elected he can be indicted, he can be arrested. there's so much more at stake for him. that is what you saw last night. >> can i just say i think we in the media need to re-examine using the word populist at this point just because in 2016 there were arguably some policies that he put out there that were populous such as grand infrom structure plan. he talked about the forgotten man. these things have not materialized. when you boil it down to its essence, what we are seeing, it was not about populism. >> it was faux populism. >> yes. even the wall, he can't say he

did that. he can't even say build the wall anymore. he can't talk about the forgotten man because we're going to interview the farmers who are in destitute straits. we're going to talk to the coal miners. by the way, there are fewer coal mine workers today than there were under obama. it just doesn't work. we're all reflectively going back to losing that label to describe this. this was why joe biden, other dems are saying this is a test of us as a nation, because if he wins again, it really isn't about populism. it's about something else zplxt it's about resentment and how well he can get people to respond to i'm a victim and you're a victim, we're all victims. by the way, we've got to screw the people who are hurting us. it's all about resentment. it's us against them. and what they're going to try to do, and i know as somebody who has a deep respect, somebody who works every day with a large

group of people that are -- you know, are not in boardrooms, this is about growing his base. what they're campaign is doing, nicolle, they are not counting on getting the obama/trump voter back. they're counting on voting the trump voters, finding more of those people that never registered to vote, more of those 3e78 who are just as angry and just as resentful as the people in that arena last night and that's their strategy, is to grow. that's why it's so important our democratic primary doesn't get into a mud bath because we have got to keep everybody united and keep them enthusiastic about turning out. because this is going to be a battle of turnout. between those on base and those who want to go back. >> speaking to campaign official as head of this rally, that's exactly what they're trying to do. trying to turn out more trump voters. they understand there will not be many to persuade from the

other side. maybe a few who like the way the economy is going. but otherwise finding more people who didn't turn out next time or haven't voted in decades or never voted, or picked up by a pollster, and who are going to identify with a message of anger and grievance. that's what the message is trying to push. even those he's an incumbent and will use the trappings of presidency when they can, they will use him as the outsider. he's running up against career politicians, whether it's pelosi or schumer or joe biden in the general election. he still has that role and people identify with him. he speaks for anger. whether that will be effective or not remains to be seen. it was the greatest hits type of rally but they feel like this is still their best approach. as the final thing, that rally was devastating for hillary clinton's 2020 chances.

>> let show you one thing that has changed, marco rubio and lindsey graham swinging their hands and clapping at a managga rally. >> it's rubio! >> he's always calling me little marco. he's taller than me, like 6'2", which is why i don't understand his hands are the size of someone who's 5'2". did you see his hands? he said i'm sweating all the time. it's hot in here. am i sweating now? he doesn't sweat because his pores are clogged from the sprain tan that he uses. >> this guy lindsey graham. he's one of the dumbest human beings i have ever seen. i think lindsey graham is a disgrace and you have one of the worst representatives of any representative in the united states. >> stay in the race. just stop being a jackass. you don't have to run for

president and be the world's biggest jackass. >> he ran for president and i gave him the card. i don't know if he wrote the number down of the let's try it. >> you know how you make america great again? tell donald trump to go to hell. >> and there they are smiling, nodding. i didn't know you could say jackass on tv but that was network tv. phil? >> it was quite a sight to see mar marco and lindsey graham getting ought shout out and clapping and along for the ride. in a sense they're opportunists but also survivalists. these senators have made a calculation there's no a place for them on the republican party today unless they get on board the trump train so that's what they've done. they have seen some of the former colleagues who challenged him. bob corker, jeff flake, they're not in the senate anymore. i don't know what it says about their futures in the party,

graham or rubio, how they would manage this after the trump era is over but right now they're fully on board. >> they sure are. no one's going anywhere. after the break, the wrongful conviction of five black and latino teenagers known as the central park five is back in the news. not surprisingly donald trump says there are people on both sides of the issue. that story is next. an autonomous-thinking vehicle protecting those inside and out. and it's the mercedes-benz of today that will help us get there. the 2019 e-class, with innovations that will change the way we drive from this day forward. visit your local mercedes-benz dealer for exceptional lease and financing offers. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. the first survivor of ais out there.sease and the alzheimer's association is going to make it happen. but we won't get there without you.

visit alz.org to join the fight. if your adventure... keeps turning into unexpected bathroom trips. you may have overactive bladder, or oab. not again! we're seeing a doctor when we get home. myrbetriq treats oab symptoms of urgency, frequency, and leakage. it's the first and only oab treatment in its class. myrbetriq may increase blood pressure. tell your doctor right away if you have trouble emptying your bladder or have a weak urine stream. myrbetriq may cause serious allergic reactions, like swelling of the face, lips, throat or tongue, or trouble breathing. if experienced, stop taking and tell your doctor right away. myrbetriq may interact with other medicines. tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems. common side effects include increased blood pressure, common cold or flu symptoms, sinus irritation, dry mouth, urinary tract infection, bladder inflammation, back or joint pain, constipation, dizziness, and headache. looking for a destination that isn't always the bathroom?

ask your doctor if myrbetriq is right for you. and visit myrbetriq.com.

southern law center calls them a hate group, proud buys, far right feeio nazi gangs that are often white supremacists and last night some were in orlando like moths to a flame, drawn to the area immediately surrounding donald trump's rally. apparently engaging with protesters. when it comes to trump and his appeal to white supremacists, it's another data point many find disturbing, as is trying to stoke our worries at the same

time the proud boys were spotted outside donald trump's venue, donald trump was on the south lawn getting ready to take off for orlando. as the central park are in the news because of a new netflix series, reporter april ryan asked trump what he said about the man in 1989 when he took out a full-page ad in four new york city newspapers calling for the state to bring back capital punishment. >> why do you bring that question up now? it's an interesting time to bring it up. you have people on both sides that admit their guilt. if you look at some of the prosecutors, they think the city never should have settled that case. we will leave it at that. >> we won't leave it at that. we will point out not only were the convictions of the central park five vacated in 2002 after dna evidence linked the serial rapist to the crime but the confessions that led to the original conviction were discovered to have been coerced.

phil and the table are back. i think in terms of the most disturbing campaign he's run, birtherism and the central park five takes the cake. >> i think central park five is even worth than birtherism. there are not both sides here. they found the right rapist with dna evidence. and this is something who had done this a number of times. this is not one single crime. there is no question that the criminal justice system is 100% certain that those boys were innocent, and they were boys. i mean 14, 15, 16, that they were completely innocent. the fact that this man is so bereft of the moral character to at least say, you know, it was a tough time, it was a touch moment, i was wrong and i'm glad our system fixed the mistake even though we probably can

never make it up to those young men. it's just beyond me that he is such a creep that he can't even say that. >> do you think it's a tie to his inability to say that and his welcoming of or at least there's no indication he's disturbed by the president's proud boys around his events. >> i have to make the assumption that this is calculated on his part. because you can't -- if it's something he's doing without thought, that's even worse. so it has to be a calculation that he is trying to, you know, do the dog whistle to the ugliest part of our society. the white nationalist, ku klux klan, all of those people. and that's the only assumption you can make by watching his behavior and how he conducts himself. >> corinne? >> i think it's ratist and bigoted and it is who he is.

i think it plays out over and over again any opportunity that he has, and he isn't even connected to, charlottesville, like personally collected to, he doesn't do the right thing, he doesn't rise up. he says both sides. like we saw yesterday with the central park five, we have to understand these young boys who are now men, their lives were destroyed and the system did it to them. during that time i grew up in new york and i remember this very briefly because i was young myself, he took out an ad -- >> four. >> four ads had saying they should be essentially hung without them getting their due process. and that is a scary, scary thought that he's now the president of the united states, who i is edge couraging. i have talked to african-americans who are older who have been around for a very long time. they see people like the proud boys and they tell me that's the modern version of the ku klux klan and they're not wearing

hoods. >> when is the last time he apologized for anything, for any instincts? he doesn't do it. whether it's small or high-profile like this that was life-changing for these young men. there's an understanding in trump world. we've seen time and time again his refusal to condemn far right nationalist violence whether it's charlottesville or australia, the guy who had sent letter bombed and had pro-trump material all over took days for trump to soft pedal it. these are people who he does not want to alienate because they support him. that's not going to change going forward, no matter how grotesque the incident may be. >> first of all, thank god for diversity in media and april ryan was there to ask that question and ee lits a weird answer. he said it's odd she should ask that question. it's odd he shouldn't anticipate it according to campaign officials he's going to try to

reach out to the african-american community by, guess what, criminal justice report. how do they plausibly thing they can talk about criminal justice without this haunting him throughout the entire campaign? this incident, the birther incident, which is just more of an issue of prure racism, this speaks to the heart of criminal justice reform. these boys were coerced and their lives ruined and the president was a big part at that time of stoking the flames and the emotions around all of this. >> phil rucker, i want to put you on the spot. i read with a lot of enthusiasm and interest the way this rally was covered. i read three papers this morning. i consumed a lot of cable coverage. it seems if there's a lesson learned on the media side at 16, fact-checking has to happen in realtime. we don't have six hours or three hours or two hours. your paper did it. other papers do it. what were you thinking in terms

of being in the room and how, if any, you'll cover him differently than you did in the '16? >> well, nicolle, one of the ways we cover him differently he is he has a record now. he's taken action as the preds of the united states on a number of these areas and so these aren't just ideas or promises that are coming from his mouth when he's at these rallies but there's an actual record of substance or lack thereof. but we have to hold him to account. he told a number of falsehoods in that speech last night. a lot of the reporters were tweeting corrections in realtime and alerting people. the trouble is so few of his supporters believe the media. they're inclined to believe whatever the president is telling them and they are sort of living in the same alternate universe of alternative facts that trump and so many of his aides and allies live in and so it's a real different set of information that they're dealing with.

>> i did see donald trump jr. got up and attacked joe biden for wanting to cure cancer and about ten minutes later trump got up and announced he was going to cure cancer without any sort of hint of irony. maybe he was able to see the whole thing is a fraud. phil rucker, thank you -- go ahead. >> i would just say joe biden if he could cure cancer probably would because his son -- >> save his son's life. >> his son died of cancer. there's our personal element there too. >> of course. would i dare to say that every american whether you love trump or hate trump would like to see cancer cured for all of our children and all of our parents and everyone we love. >> of course. >> phil rucker, thank you for spending time with us. we're grateful. >> thank you. after the break, senator kamala harris has another breakthrough moment. eakthrough . my experience with usaa

has been excellent. they really appreciate the military family and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life. ♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today. ♪ the first survivor of ais out there.sease and the alzheimer's association is going to make it happen. but we won't get there without you. visit alz.org to join the fight.

thyou had a good run, but it's time to sell or trade it in, and you need to know what it's worth. with truecar, just enter your license plate and see your car's value in real time. sports package and low mileage? nice. incident with a shopping cart... not so nice. sunroof? real nice. within minutes, you'll have a true cash offer and you can head to a local certified dealership to cash out or trade in. enjoy a better way to sell or trade in your car with truecar.

you should be mad at leaf blowers. [beep] you should be mad your neighbor always wants to hang out. and you should be mad your smart fridge is unnecessarily complicated. but you're not mad, because you have e*trade which isn't complicated. their tools make trading quicker and simpler. so you can take on the markets with confidence. don't get mad. get e*trade and start trading today. deal with the problem. we have 11 million people who need a pathway to leadership but we're not going to get that out of this president. what we're not going to get out of this president is someone who approaches people fleeing the

murder capitals of the world and does what is reflective of american values, which is understand the strength of our arms to embrace people who are fleeing harm. no, that's not what this president does. they arrive at our border and he says, go back to where you came from. came from. that is not reflective of the values of who we are as americans. >> senator kamala harris appealing to our hearts and our minds and our common sense calling out the sheer inhumanity of the president's policies giving us a preview of the conviction and candor we will see next week from her on the debate stage. i think that every time she is sort of in front of a camera or sort of presenting anything, she nails it. my question for you as someone who worked with her, what does that look like behind the scenes? >> she's got a really good gut, a political gut. and she does have the ability to communicate forcefully and clearly and with moral clarity. and that's going to be really important. and she kind of needs to have a

breakout moment. she needs to somehow -- and that's the scary thing about this debate for all these candidates. if you're going to get, what, maybe a total of eight minutes, maybe? >> if you're lucky. >> so how do you break through without making a fool of yourself? how do you push the envelope and stand out without people dismissing you and smelling that this is you trying to stand out? it's a really big challenge, but kamala, i think kamala will do well. i think she's used to -- when you've been in the courtroom and you have to think on your feet and you have to not know what the question is going to be or what the answer's going to be, i think it gives you a certain amount of confidence that she has that will serve her well in the debate. and by the way, you know, she was on our committee for homeland security and government affairs. so she is very well versed in these immigration issues because we had so many hearings on them. and she knows what all of us

know that understand this subject matter. you can't deport millions of people. at the rate you're going, i think they did the calculation. at the rate he's doing on deportation, it would take 24 years to get to millions of people. so this is another lie. there's not jail space. they have 60,000 beds. they can't -- there's not enough jail space to deport all these people. so it is a cruel lie meant to score cheap political points of resentment and to scare a whole lot of people that don't deserve to be scared. >> which has no chance of doing anything about illegal immigration. joe biden in the news and not for good reasons. joe biden recalling civility incented. mr. biden speaking at a fundraiser at the carlisle hotel in new york city on tuesday night stressed the need to be able to reach consensus under our system and cast his decades

in the senate as a time of relative -- at the end mr. biden noted that he served with the late senators james o. eastland and talmadge. >> yeah. so, let's put politics aside for a second. what he said is just wrong. and when you juxtaposition with the day that we are going through today, which is today is juneteenth, which is we are celebrating, acknowledging, the end of slavery. the house judiciary subcommittee just held their first hearing on reparations. and what he's remembering fondly is the time when the body of the senate was primarily white and male, and they were working overtime to deny the rights of people of color, to deny the rights of women. and this is what was happening during the time that he's remembering fondly. and that's incredibly problematic for so many people. and also it puts -- it really

contrasts what you say his -- i've heard you say this so many times, the two-by-four that he did with his announcement, using that shortsville video where he put himself as the barrier against fear, against being on the right side of things. and it counters that. and it's incredibly problematic. >> can i throw dick cheney in the mix just to make a broader point? when i worked for bush and cheney, people used to say what do you think of dick cheney? and people would say, well, i hate everything he stands for. but when i see him, we ask each other about our families. like, do you think that there is any chance he was saying i hate what these men stood for but i was able to work with them? is there a possibility for that in your mind? >> but he didn't say that. >> okay. so i looked into this because i was on our email server with people sending in corrections and also anita dunn who was later in the context was he did say that they were mean and he

didn't agree with them on anything. but he was talking about a time when the senate function, not so much harkening back to a particular day or culture, anything other than a functioning senate. >> -- on civil right rights. he fought them on civil rights. he worked against them on civil rights. i agree with you it was a bad moment for him to call them up. we're praising segregationists here. >> i'm going to give you all the time -- i just want to read the quote again. i don't want to get too far from the language. stressed the need to, quote, be able to reach consensus under our system, cast his decades in the senate as a time when they could do that. he noted that he served with the late senators eastland and talmadge, both senators who were staunch -- of deseggachq i am just saying are you open to any

explanation -- i disagree, i heard it all the time. i disagree with everything. i mean, jim makes this point, it's hard to hate up close. >> i know joe biden, i know him pretty well. i think he's a good guy. i love the guy. right? but there is this question of this generational gap. and i think this is what it plays to. people want -- like, the charlottesville where he brought up charlottesville in that opening video, that's what people want to hear more of. but when you take us back to a time that's really, really dark. i know he is talking about bringing people together. but to bring up those names, i think is just -- right, exactly. >> and as a postscript as much as the idea of bipartisan sounds like a good idea, that is from the democrats. the democrats want to fight. they do not want to reach across the aisle and shake hands. >> i'm not sure -- >> but the democratic primary --

>> and let me just say joe biden is not getting credit for one thing. nobody has written this up. i have never known a presidential candidate to invite the press pool into every fundraiser, every living room, every gathering. the press pool is that everyone, i have never seen that before and nobody's talking about it. >> the press pool is very happy about it. >> vice president biden, you just got on the record for him. we have to sneak in our last break. we will be right back. we will be right back. your brain changes as you get older. but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish.

in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. ♪ as your life grows, so do your needs. ♪ and with bank of america and merrill, the benefits you get can grow, too. as a preferred rewards member, you can enjoy priority service and exclusive discounts... so your growing life can be more rewarding, too. ♪ what would you like the power to do? ♪ what would you like the power to do? so chantix can help you quit slow turkey.rkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. chantix reduces the urge so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye.

when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery. tell your doctor if you've had mental health problems. the most common side effect is nausea. quit smoking slow turkey. talk to your doctor about chantix. the first survivor of ais out there.sease and the alzheimer's association is going to make it happen. but we won't get there without you. visit alz.org to join the fight. look limu. a civilian buying a new car.ug

let's go. limu's right. liberty mutual can save you money by customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh... yeah, i've been a customer for years. huh... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ my thanks to senator mccaskill, jonathan and all of you for watching. that does it for this hour. i'm nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" starts right now with my friend chuck todd. if it's wednesday, is what's old new again? president trump launches his re-elect with a