trump's getting clobbered by 8 to 10 points in some of those polls. >> and democrats are holding their convention in milwaukee. jim vandehei, i know you're sticking around for "morning joe." we'll be reading axios a.m. in just a little while. >> that does it for us this thursday morning. i'm yasmin vossoughian alongside geoff bennett. "morning joe" starts right now. >> i worry about iranian himgenony,i worry about their align with vladimir putin. as you look at the geo political workout there, iran, russia, china, tell me your concerns. >> don't worry about a thing. everything's under control. doesn't worry about a thing. >> okay. so here i am. i was about to say pigs fly, breaking news, pigs fly, i agree

with sean hannity. i really do. i mean, and anybody that's seen what iran's done over the past decade, well, why don't we just take it back a notch to 1979. can we get the music back up? donald trump, he's like sort of at one of those tiki huts, right? maybe outside the florida bama and they're going to have the toss and the music is in the background and the nuclear weapons are rising slowly behind him and it says "death to america" and what is donald trump saying? he says "is that bob marley? i love bob marley."

good morning. i can't do the accent. welcome to "morning joe." i would have personally kept the music going while they do the introduction. i don't know. that's my way of saying keep the music going while i do the introduction. welcome to "morning joe"," man. it's thursday morning. we have jonathan lemire, seceli jordan and he's writing a book on the history of reggae, steve. he's actually a huge jimmy cliff fan. he's going to explain how that led to the explosion of le regg worldwide. and columnist and associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius, you know

where he comes down on this. >> what, me worry? >> and axios's jim vandehei. as can you tell already just a couple of minutes in, mika has the morning off. what do you want to do today? what do you want to do today? thank you so much. so, first of all, david, i do need to go to you because as hannity was talking, i said, oh, my god, sean hannity sounded like a conservative, i agreed with sean hannity on a lot of things that he said but, man, when he started ticking down the problems, the proxy wars, the gimini, everything going on with the iranians, i was saying, yeah, i agree with that. donald trump says don't worry about a thing, everybody's going to be okay. that's what he's saying about north korea. that really is sort of what he was saying about syria until he was backed into a corner and

forced to do it. we have gone from barack obama's, quote, lead from behind and don't do stupid stuff to don't worry, be happy of donald trump. talk about right now how the pentagon may have a slightly different attitude than donald trump about what's going on in iran right now. >> joe, the pentagon specifically in the form of the vice chairman of the joint chiefs of staff is warning stridently that the iranians should be careful, not m miscalculate, warning that any attack on any vessel or personnel will be met with severe american response. i think one way to think about this is that donald trump wants to play long game with iran. he's got sanctions that really are squeezing the iranian economy. they're reducing iranian oil

exports to close to zero and trump would just like to keep those screws tight. the iranians want to play short game. they got to break out of this box, they are going broke. they have a real problem. that's the basic issue there. you have trump trying to say don't worry about it, this is a minor attack, woe're fine. what he's really saying let's keep this going tofor a while a then you'll be really hurting. let's look for the long game the u.s. wants to play, they have to calm down, versus the short, spasmodic response from the iranians. >> we'll get to joe biden in one second. have i to do a follow-up question here. this is a question people didn't have an answer to a couple years ago because there were three different forces in iran and each were going in their

separate direction and for once the muellers didn't seem to be reigning over the iranian republic. who is in charge now? who can say we need to find a way to break out of this and become a member of the international community in a way that will get this economic stranglehold lifted from around our necks? >> unfortunately the intelligence reports described to me make very clear that since the united states has tightened these sanctions and specifically sanctioned the revolutionary guard, that has added to the power of the worst of the worst in iran. it has made life more difficult for those like president row hanhan -- rouhani who would like to be in a demonstration with the us. when the prime minister of japan shows up in tehran last week carrying a letter from president

trump inviting some kind of letter and the ayatollah homini said i will not deal with you. >> i don't know where they think this is going to end. >> they don't know either. >> the sanctions are not going to be listed and they can continue banging their heads against the wall for the next couple of years and it's not going to work. let's go now to democratic politics. new polls out and the democratic field is pretty fixed except joe biden maintains a 32% lead. but look at this, here she comes, steve rattner's favorite candidate, elizabeth warren. just joking, steve. the only top candidate who gained in the last month. she is up five points to 15%.

something's happening there. bernie sanders at 14%, kamala harris at 8%, pete buttigieg at 5%, beto o'rourke at 3%. what do you see, steve rattner, in that list, as the donor classes are starting to move towards the candidates that they're going to want to fund? >> they're not moving to elizabeth warren but she's done it on her own. >> as you've said, that's the most powerful thing, online fund-raising and ability to get there on your own without the big donors. that fuels you. >> that fuels use and you get through the polls on your own. she's identified with a

strategy. i've got a plan, i've got a plan for everything. i would have guessed at the beginning of this campaign, this might have been a policy-free zone with a lot of us yelling and screaming about donald trump. but now she and other candidates are putting out these plans. but more than that, where she has been speaking, it's what an enormous impact. she was on friday at the black alliance in charleston. she's obviously not black but she gave her speech and i'm told by friends of miefr who wene wh there, she got the only standing ovation of anybody at that conference. and i'm told she's now perceived to be the preferred candidate to bernie sanders. she's still not the choice of centrist mainstream democrats. >> i saw a rally of hers and she has the same demographic as bernie does, a lot of white

people. a lot of younger white people. >> but that's why -- but that's why at this b.e.a. thing, there were a very small number of white people, almost all african-americans, and she got a standing ovation. >> well, we'll see. it going to be a challenge, i think to break into joe biden's support there, but it does look like we have a top tier now, which is biden and bernie, elizabeth warren, mayor pete and kamala harris owning the number eight. she's like at 8% in every poll. but she's right skrut side of that top four. but it's a pretty solid top four in every poll. >> i agree. it's still very early. we're still about seven months away from the first state where folks are going to be caucuses and 502 days away from the general election in 2020. >> how many days away from the fec reports coming out which shows they're not going to have enough money to get to the end of the year?

>> and that's a whole other conversation -- >> i think it's also going to dwindle down a bit m the field. those 1%, are they going to be able to sta in or -- stay in the field. elizabeth warren has this inclusive populism, if you will, where she talks about economic equality, where she talks about what it means for people of color, for women. she the people forum, you saw her resonate with that part of the base and you saw it last weekend when she got a standing ovation. it's been really clear she's been authentic and she's also had these policies that she's been able to talk about it in an authentic way and resonating and connecting with people. that matters and that's how she's been able to contrast herself. >> while she is not necessarily the most popular person in my

world, she is vastly popular to bernie sanders. she says she's a capitalist, she says she believes in markets. we'll see what actually happens. but she's pitching a better line for democrats who are not that far over than bernie sanders is. >> and it's very interesting are corrine, to your point, i've always believed the democratic candidate or independent candidate that changes american politics forever is the one who actually does what bobby kennedy did and that is unite blacking class americans and white working class americans. that scene where bobby's body was going down to the railroad tracks to washington d.d.c. and that beautiful scene on one side of the tracks, black americans waving flags, on the other side of the track, white working class americans waving flags and

the train goes by and the two sides walk back to their homes and nobody's brought them back together elise. if elizabeth warren can do it -- >> the bobby kennedy reference is so interesting to me. the first stop she made was going to the mississippi delta, just like bobby kennedy and i feel like her slow has given her this incredible recovery because i thought the video during the mid terms she released was political malpractice. and i couldn't believe she or anyone in her team thought that was a good idea. >> that was bad, bad. >> it's almost good to do something bad section, eight months ago, show that you're

serious and it about more than a sound bite and it resiliency matters. this is someone who donald trump went after full force, went after with the pocahontas nickname and everything else, but she took a hit and withstood it. she's moved up in the polls. she's also taken a lot of attacks from bernie sanders, who is clearly concerned about the inroads she has made into that liberal wing of the party. he went after her on twitter yesterday. but she is right now, she is the one who has the momentum. as joe joe biden hits more stumbles along the way -- they're all polling from the same group of peep. so let's object about this other story. we'll start it here but i think this conversation may go into the next block because i have an

opinion that probably is going to get me, like, kicked off the set. but he's defiant live rejecting criticism from his rivals from the democratic nomination after a new york city fund-raiser on tuesday night, biden said i was in the caucus with james o. eastland, herman tall ork, we didn't agree on anything, we got things done. today you're enemy. not the opposition, the enemy. we don't talk to each other anymore. yesterday cory booker called on joe biden to apologize, vice

president biden's relationships with proud segregationists are not the model for how we make america is safer and more inclusive place for black people and for everyone. >> i ran for the united states senate because i disagreed with the views of the segregationists. i was talking about the voting rights act. i was able to pass the voting rights act while when i was still a young senator and he was chairman, we voted against him and beat him in the voting rights act. the point i'm making is you don't have to agree. you don't have to like the people but you simply just make the case and you bet them without changing the system. >> how does it feel that your democratic say implicitly you have issues talking about race. >> they know better. >> reporter: are you going to apologize? >> apologize for what?

>> reporter: cory booker called for it. >> cory should apologized. there's not a racist bone in my body. i've been involved in civil rights my whole career, period, period, period. >> and senator booker responded this way. >> when he said almost jokingly, he was mocking a southern accent when he said that, they didn't call me boy, they called me son. the reason they call these white boys son is because the segregationists is because they could see in them themselves. the reason they called black men boy was to degrade and due hu dehumanize them. and for him not to take offense, i know i was raised to speak truth to power and i will never apologize for doing that and vice president biden shouldn't need this lesson. >> senator booker wasn't the

only democratic candidate to criticize joe biden for his comments. bernie sanders said i agree with cory booker. senator warren said i'm not here o criticize other democrats but i'm going to criticize another democrat. and here is kamala harris and new york city mayor bill de blas blasio. >> to coddle the reputations of segregationists, if people who had their way, i would not be standing here as a member of the united states senate, it's nice informed and it's wrong. >> reporter: should he apologize for that? >> he's going to have to make that decision. the senators he's speaking of with such adoration are individuals who made and stake

their reputation on segregation. >> i think the bottom line here is why on earth would a democrat speak nostalgic will tally of w with a segregationist? >> how do we want do this? should i talk first and then everybody can yell at me? >> pretty much. >> let's do that. >> first of all, i love kamala but joe biden didn't coddle any segregationist in anything he said. in fact, he called one of them one of the meanest people he ever met. if that's coddling, don't hug me, don't coddle me. also, he didn't speak with

adoration about these segregationists. his point was -- i mean, it wouldn't have been very persuasionipe persuasi persuasive, would it if he said i have proven over the last 30 years i can work with tom carper and every member of the delaware delegation. that's not the point. he picked the people who were the most repugnant to them, who he disagreed with the most and sa said i could even work with them. is it rumsfefelrumsfeld said i with anyone. and f.d.r. passed social, passed the new deal and he saved this country and saved poor people

like my parents. in the deep south, he also saved black americans. in chicago -- f.d.r. didn't sit there and go i'm not going to deal with the racists in the south. eleanor and i are going to just sit here and have tea and we're going to have radio broadcasts where we speak in self-righteous indignation all day, and we may have a crumpett, too. he also had to deal with segregationists to defeat hitler. you sometimes have to deal with people whose views you may find repugnant. l.b.j. had to deal with people in '64 and '75, he had had to

drag them them over the line to pass the voting rights act. i understand everybody wants to notch joe biden, wants to tame him down a place or two. a lot of us were upset when billy graham went to the soviet union in the 1980s and he said i think communists need jesus, too. and biden was getting the votes he needed to pass the civil rights act. let's start with you. you're about to jump over the table. >> i think we can have a really good debate here as the fellow southern baptist, grew up in the sounded. woor tacking about an era when jim crow was still law of the land, talking about language working with people before they had reached out the civil rights act. i think to go back to that kind

of large -- when he should be more savvy if he wants to win in this climate of the democratic party. >> what are you talking about? >> the boys, i've heard them use that language with black men -- it's not funny. >> he worked with segregationists. he knew how to get things done. >> the larger point i think is fine. it's the casualness, you know, making fun, making light of the behaviors that were september during that period that should not have ever been accepted. >> corrine. >> i think it was offensive using segregation as an example and saying it was a civil time. it brings back things for black americans who at that time did not see that environment as civil to them.

when you think about that body of senators who were mostly white males, they were denying the right of black people. so when you have somebody who wants to be the leader of the democratic party who back and look at the moment that we're in today, he said it the same night of donald trump's rally, you saw white supremacists marching to donald trump's rally. you saw the current president basically encouraging and inviting these kind of very hateful people, right, white supremacy, nazis, and this is the same kind of behavior that we saw from donald trump during charlottesville. so it is a very kind of sensitive moment for people and hurtful moment. so when you have joe biden saying that, it really does trigger things for people. and one more thing because this is very layered. one last thing i want to say. in that clip that you showed and

you have biden standing outside in front of the plaque he's joking about not being called a boy. then cory booker says it's dehumanizing for a black man to be called a boy. then cory booker, one of three african-american senators, right, he tells cory booker that he needs to apologize to him. >> that's the worst part of this. >> that is and it just shows that he is and i love joe biden. i got to work very closely with him. i got to know him. i do not think he is a racist, but it is -- it is problematic -- >> did core i think cory booker

it remember how he got pushed out? >> again, steve, what joe biden was saying is i couldn't even work with the deplorables. i can even work with those segregationists because they had no choice at the time but o do that and i department scream and yell, we figured out a way to work together, even though we disagree with each other. you can just like action and hamilton saying, yes, i dealt with a lot of slave workers. and how deeply offensive that was. >> i was going to add to your

list if it want for l.b.j. dealing with that, we wouldn't have the same society. this was a piece of and not disagreeing or taking offense with what you said, this was a piece of a long biden and secondly and this is a bit of a date in the democratic process at the moment, which is do you do better by trying to work with the other side or by trying to get a super majority or large group of progressives to the on a one-party vote? and he was staking out ground and the way to get stuff down is to work together. this bit has what and it was a paragraph, maybe a sentence in

this broader con strubt that he was trying to create about working with other people. looking do i think he could have picked two better examples of people that he worked with? >> sure, i get you could have. as a lawyer, i would say no. he couldn't pick two examples. those were the samples you would pick i could get figured out a way to pass the, you brought up charlottesville. i think it's very telling that joe widen, but we're going to keep talking. we'll talk about this on the other side of the break.

but it's important to remember when joe biden launched this campaign -- charlottesville. he said he was running and knew he was going to run after he saw the racism in donald trump's approach to charlottesville. >> what's interesting, you talk to people around biden, they're less concerns about sort of the lasting effect of whether or not people are accusing him of racism. what concerns them is he's talking about something that happened so far in the past. that he looks like a man out of thouch with the and look forward, look forward. everyone wants to make it seem like you've been in politics for 30, 60 years and that the democratic party has moved beyond you. so there's a lot of talk about how he's going to handle this upcoming debate. he stop making references about

people 10, 20, 30 years ago. you've got blaurch, budget jej and wa the new and if it ends up being him against be that's what scares them. health insurance what's going through bit you should talk about less about his lazy weekends with henry clay and talk more about how in 2011, how he worked with bloups and actually pushed barack oba-- he with groups and actually pushed president obama towards group for equality. >> he talked about how he was the compromiser and this is a

paragraph that obviously got a lot of attention for a reason, but he is not completely mired in the 18th century. >> no offense, steve, but the fundamental disconnect of you being there at the fund-raiser while joe biden has this slip-up and he's not out talking to people and dealing with the press is an underlying huge problem. >>what do you have mean? >> because he's dealing with big donors. >> everybody does. >> he's made that conscious choice. he isn't being hope to the press and he's going -- the next appearance was at another fund-raiser. he's not going to be able to survive in this environment where he's making so many gaffes like that when he is being loose-lipped -- >> there was a pool there. it wasn't like these remarks were leaked out. it was in a sense an open press. >>i think what you're trying to say is he's getting hit for not going out there and doing town halls. i think that's what you're trying to say. >> he has not done nearly as

many public events as some of his rivals. to steve's point, it crystallizes his idea of what do the democrats want right now? in the primary, do we want to work together or do we want to fight? he seems a little out of step. calling for senator booker to apologize, i think that is what galled a lot of people. >> eh. maxine waters basically called every republican a racist and i was deeply offended by it, went up and confronted her and we've been friends ever since. hey, maxmaxine, how you doing? it reminds me of a "washington post" column i read last week where people were talking about donald trump only sticking to script at normandy. that ain't nothing. joe biden would do well the rest

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welcome back, "morning joe," be happy. james clyburn, the highest ranking african-american in congress told politico "i worked with strom thurmond all my life. you don't have to agree with people to work with them. david ignatius, i think that's the point. when you have people like jim clyburn coming out who have been around, who have done this for a very long time, who also is the most powerful voice in democratic politics in south carolina, that certainly provides joe biden some cover. i'm curious, though, what are your thoughts about the

conversation you've been hearing? >> i think it's fascinating and goes to the heart of what the rest of this democratic nomination battle is going to be about. joe biden is with these comments stating directly that he thinks the country's looking for somebody who can work with the other side in this angry, divided country, somebody who can reach out to people he doesn't agree with, doesn't look at the world the same way with but get things done. you look at recent polls, recent pew research poll, for example, and there's clearly an intense, growing feeling in the country people are sick of this divisive politics. biden's problem is lease got he win the nomination. joe biden also has a way of making kind of loose comments, this talk about they didn't call me boy, they called me son. that's just an easy target.

it was sloppy use of language. he's going to be i can imagine in the first big debate he's going to spend a lot of time defending it, not talking about the things he wants. the bet he wants is the basic message is one of country wants to hear. >> and the real problem is, jonathan, is the fact that he just sort of rambled around. not only in the fund-raiser but then in his presser afterwards. he just has to be locked down. and i don't know who around him can actually tell him that but he never goes into a fund-raiser without reading from the teleprompter. i remember making fun of john kerry in four because he'd have teleprompters at every event, no matter how small they were, pretty damn smart. and that's -- i was wrong, he

was right -- that's something joe biden needs to do, every event. >> joe biden does this, he rambles. he'll get in front of the cameras and ramble. he's run for president before and neither campaign went that well and he was undone in part by gaffs like this. he would stray from the message and stray from the script and would get himself in trouble by doing so. he's not to the extreme that president trump is in terms of being unable to stay on message, but there is a problem of discipline with biden and there is a frustration among some democrats who believe in him who suggest if he were to stick on the script, because he is the front-runner and checks in many ways the right boxes and seems to be saying wa at least a percentage of americans want to hear that he would be the overwhelming favorite if he wouldn't be undone by self-inflicted wounds. what we saw yesterday and a few

times in the last couple of weeks, he is still prone to these gaffs. as much as we give him credit for allows the press pool to be in his fund-raisers, he hasn't done many events where he's interacting with the public or press and the more he does that, the more chances he's going to have to go off script and screw up. >> and this is so predictable for joe biden that this is a problem that even somebody as slow, even a country lawyer like me could see it coming. i wrote this last week and i'm going to go to jim vandehei. jim is always like, hey, could you read more of your writing? i'm doing this for jim. this was just last week and the pou point is not that i'm some truth sayer, but this is obvious and an unforced error. >> joe biden owes much to his

discipline. he kept much of his loquacious instincts in check. if he can restrain himself for 16 more months, biden is likely to be our 46th president. if you think i'm trying to send joe biden a message with this column, you are correct. too much is riding on next year's leelection for any democratic candidate to shoot from the hip rhetorically." jim vandehei, that's exactly what joe biden did. we now have the abortion funding flip flop with the hyde amendment and this boy versus son comment that he made. he's got to stop it now. >> by the way, it's your soothing voice as much as the eloquence of your words that i want to hear everybody day. >> by the way, jim, i want you to know, coming soon a

mindfulness evening job where i'm going to have the sound of bobbling brooks and i'm going to say "joe biden" and i'll read the news in that voice. focus on your kneecap as i tell you about joe biden. >> there's no doubt -- >> mika's not here. >> all the good news, mika's not here. go ahead. >> this topic consumes biden's people. he's been pretty darned disciplined by biden's standards. if i were him, i'd be less worried necessarily about the gaffe in the moment. i'd be more worried when people like elizabeth warren can start to become storytellers about a different way to think about sort of her policy ideas and the direction of the country. they're unnerved by warren because something has changed with her and her ability to not

just talk about policy because most people i don't think really want to get into the weeds on policy but to weave it together. if you this i about why did trump win? he had a story to tell and he hit it over and over. barack obama had a very specific story to tell. she is developing a story and it's a different story for how you could really change policy and sort of change inequality and then she feeds in those policies to back it up. so if i'm him, a little more worried. what you said earlier is right, joe. if you think about everybody else -- biden's at the top at 30%. where do you think others go when the field narrows? you could see a lot of them gravitating towards her or buttigieg are kamala or bernie sanders. keep an eye on that. >> jim vandehei, thank you very

much for being with us. i hope you'll guest host on my mindf mindfulness podcast. >> i'll do mindfulness yoga. >> you don't have to do anything. just focus on your breathing. >> i need to do something. >> listen, hot yoga with jim ryan after the break. but we're going to be talking about big papi, iran and way more. we'll be right back. 'll be righ. we're reporters from the new york times.

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so dominican authorities say former red sox start david ortiz was not the intended target of a murder plot and was shot by mistake. do you believe that? do you really believe that? oh poor you. officials say they believe the bullet that hit ortiz in the back at the bar earlier this month was actually meant for a friend who was sharing a table with the baseball icon. but the shooter mistook one for another. i'm going to stop right there. we talked about elvis yesterday. this would be like memphis authorities saying, you know

what, the shooter when they shot fat elvis actually thought they were shooting jimmy smith, who was sitting next to him. like david ortiz is elvis in the dominican republic. there is no mistaking who you are pointing your gun at and shooting from five feet away, jonathan lemire. >> is this a crack about david ortiz's weight, comparing him to elvis? >> no, no. i'm saying if you went up to a bar and shot at elvis and shot at him, you would know who you were shooting at. >> it was a member of a drug cartel seeking revenge for this man working with authorities and turned him in. david ortiz is the most famous person on the island. he's instantly recognizable.

he moves out in public all the time. it does seem somewhat imappla e implausible he could be the victim of mistaken identity. the news on ortiz is good. the update from the red sox is good, he's doing good in mass. general in boston. >> roy moore will announce later today whether he's going to be running again in 2020 despite tweets from president trump calling on him to stay out of the race. moore's wife confirmed the announcement and said more details would be coming soon. he lost a special election amied allegatio

allegations -- amid allegations of sexual miscondu koconducmisc. senate republicans vowed to ignore his candidacy. over the past 20 years, i remember one election after another where alabama republicans opposed roy moore's nomination and he got nominated anyway. if roy moore decides to run this race, he'll probably win the nomination again. >> he'll make life hard for the republicans in a messy race. doug jones squeaked through this last time. if alabama politics gets so jumbl jumbled. if donald trump intervenes sharply to stop the roy moore candidacy, he's got a lot of clout down are. >> he's more popular in that

state i think than any going back to iran, what's the update this morning militarily? what are you hearing from the pentagon? >> i think militarily we're really kind of on an edge here. the pentagon has been putting out pretty clear red lines and the two that i note are first. if any americans assets or personnel are attacked by the iranians, it's a different ball ga game. they've been trying to make clear iranians will attack american targets at great risk. the second red line is iran moving to have what people describe as one-year break capability to have a newenon and i'd keep your eyes on the level of enrichment the iranians are claiming that the i i think

those are the two trip wires. otherwise, as you said earlier, joe, trump is weird live kind of down trading things. it's a long game but those are the two trip wires. >> a front page story, the u.n. report on the saudi murder of kashoggi, talking about dismembering him, talking about a smoking gun on the crown prince. i don't know how the united states of america, i don't know how the trump administration, i don't know how our allies across the world don't roundly condemn this man for cutting up and murdering the most premeditated way your colleague. >> joe, this report we could

still be horrified so long after this terrible crime, but the report managed to do that. the key new fact in it was according to the some 15 minutes before jamal khashoggi ever walked into the saudi consulate in istanbul, the team that would later kill him was talking about cutting up his body and about what kind of shroud to use to put the body parts in. that's according to her account of what's on the tape. then he walks in and they try to tell him that they're really just bringing him back to saudi arabia. but the fact that they were discussing these extreme measures before he even got there i think is really devastating information. and, again, the up representative says very

clearly, this could not have happened without the authority and approval of saudi crown prince, an issue that president trump continues to ignore despite the cia's own support of that view. >> and of course president trump has called him, quote, a sack official animal. coming up, new polling from the democratic race for the 2020 nomination. and the white house has honored economist arthur laffer with the presidential medal of freedom. we expect steve rattner will have thoughts on the man who co-wrote "trump nomices."

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. in march of next year, march

of 2020, i'm going to really look at the political world very, very carefully. if you'll remember coming into the election in 2008 when obama started rising in the polls and doing well in the polls, the stock market crashed and the stock market tells you what will be, not what has been and the stock market looks forward. if they see an obama coming into office, they'll crash and that's what led to the great recession. >> oh. really? it had nothing to do with bear sterns, really? it had nothing to do with the housing market artificially inflated? oh my god. what would happen to a guy like that? >> i don't even know where you start. >> i don't know where to begin. economist arthur laffer back in

april on fox news where he actually blamed senator blem to t -- anyway donald trump awarded that guy the presidential medal of freedom who co-authored a book called "trumponomics." although the curve has been embraced by republicans over the years, critics argue there's little evidence to support his theory and that it can inflate also bouj, conservative reporter

yesterday, and we were talking about we're sort of from a dying breed of conservatives. we're not on the are side of the conservative movement but rather we're just sort of actual, explosive deficits, entitlement meltdowns, you know. but he obviously brought in a philosophy that says fits in with the theme of the show, don't worry, it will grow the economy, it will get chicken weed out of your back yard, it will improve your backhand. it will do everything. sometimes it does spur the economy, but sometimes it makes the national debt explode. and i've got to say, you, an

excuse to cut taxes and never, ever try to replace that revenue. >> look, i think arthur laffer is one of the most dehines he. >> you end up with more revenue. reagan uses the justification for his tax cuts. bunk def fes and it's been used for justification and when bush 43 was cutting taxes and they were in the oval office debating and bush was saying what about the deficit, what about this, and want oo and p so the whole

notion we've become inured to these tax cuts goes back to laffer. taums so it doesn't work. i understand and we all understand when tax rates reach some huge mart whoever said it's going to bring you more than it's going to cost, it's irresponsible and we have trillions in debt to show for it. >> what do you think about arthur laffer getting the presidential medal of honor? >> the optics don't look good. >> and blaming obama for the

recession. >> and growth is a better driver for revenue. at a certain point it yields diminishing returns. the laffer -- however, the notion you can inject more liquidity into the economy and that will come back to you no norm and now obviously the deficits you and i share, concern about deficits and ballooning entitlement programs, but it's a little hard to swallow from those who would suggest that we should just tax and continue to increase the entitlement state to say, well, we need to slow done on this deficit so remember what you tell us about deficits. >>there's a lot to be said. if you cut revenues, you don't get dollar for dollar, you gut

some fraction of dollar for dollar and you can just keep going like that until you have a trillion dollar deficit this year and a $2 trillion deficit and i don't think you think that's a good thing? >> no. >> it's one thing to cut taxes when you're struggling through a recession and it's quite a another when the country and it's a seven or eight-year growth. any tax cut is a good cut is his philosophy and has dead to a fiscal train wreck. >> the president promised another tax cut last year saying this will focus more on the

middle class. that's the last we've heard of it. the question i've heard from a lot of economic people is whether the sugar high will eventually wear off this coming year in the point at which the recovery and can you keep growth growing in full commit -- >> yesterday they were take if it does slow down, we've added another trillion dollars that helped the richest americans and didn't consistently grow the economy. so we're worse off and we've go. >> we, it's interesting to ealmost nate the entire national

debt. all that he and the trick is that if we do head to another reaccepts, we've used up some of these tolls. if woo and there's nothing sort of left in our tool box, how will we attack that next recession if it comes? >> since we've been talking about iran, we didn't talk about iran shooting down a u.s. drone. what can you tell us? >> overnight there was a report from denying, the iranian claiming that shot that it was over the iranian airspace. it's hard to know without independent cooperation is in

the air, at sea, in situations where miscalculation is so oo the evidence is grow that more militant action to push its way out of this box of economic since are ale ratherle they've been shooting missiles into saudi arabia, they attacked -- you should see the drone attack in that contest but the and denying the ticking of the iranian plane. >> we're stas fas natting about the roo donald trump course

doesn't. told sean be happy, everything's going to be great. is john bolton just playing good jop to drft east good cop? >> first of all, donald trump's instruction to us to not worry and be happy was about north korea and russia, too. in terms of iran, for as long as he'll get o rach el of the -- he doesn't want there and he's playing the unexpected role of keeping boaton at bay. as david just said, there is

this is port, even in the president couldn't nancy pelosi says if the house moves forward on this issue, it's going to be because members are ready to impeach the president. while speaking yesterday morning, she downplayed the likelihood of that. where exactly is the line for you? you've sort of spoken about threats to the constitution from this white house. so when does it rise above all the other stuff for you? what is that trigger? >> when we stop finding even more information. as i say, with me this rb rea n reason, you have make it so

clear. i think censor is just a way out. if you're going to go, you got to go. in other words, it's if the goods are there, you must impeach. and censor is nice but it is not commensurate with the violations that the constitution should we decide that's the way to go. >> still, there are at least 69 house lawmakers, including one republican who have so far come out in support of an impeachment inquiry against president trump. the list contains freshman democrats, including the lane porter and she joins tom mall now ski as the only freshman lawmakers on the list who represent republican-leaning districts. with us is freshman congressman sean castin, he became the first democrat to represent illinois's

sixth district in 1982 after defeating the republican in the 2018 mid terms. should there be an impeachment inquiry against donald trump? >> so with great regret, the answer is yes. up know, i'm -- i came here as a businessman and a scientist and i wanted to work on climate chang and this wasn't why i came, but the daily assaults on the constitution and what we know he did, the failure of the president to allow us to do our job i think has made this a necessity. >> i agree with you, congressman. thank you for coming on. >> i have a question of what we're been seeing with congress, particularly with yesterday with hope hicks and having these behind of doors type of hearings, where she doesn't answer questions and the american public is not seeing

what's going on. why have the hearings behind closed door? >> the trump administration is playing the game of let's run out the clock and hide things. i hope the president is not guilty. but the only way we're going to find that is through an insis -- insistence on -- >> if we put off a pointed decision on whether to move forward with an inquiry for so long that we get to the point where we're in the middle of an election, let's let the voters take care of it, is there a

point at which you think impeachment becomes less tenable because we are in the throes of a discussion on whether president trump should be reelected or not. >> for me personally i think the -- i think it is important that my voters understand what my thought process is and i think that's true of a lot of members. and i think we -- i think until we can actually have the conversation with the public about why we are so concerned, it's toward hard to get the gub to what's going on. >> jonathan lemire. >> what's the tipping point? you're the first democrat to hold this seat in quite some time. what are the voters in your district saying to you? is impeachment something that's

even a topic or are there other matters more on their mind? >> i don't think this is the top issue for the franklin. i think there as a part of the job of being a representative which says you've got to represent your dk, i don't think morals are negotiable. with respect to why today, i came to this decision some time ago but it not lost on me that as someone who flipped a seat that had been republican there's a certain story that's there, right? i don't want people feel look i'm calling them to act in other ways but i think it's very important for my constituents to know what i think, to understand the constitutional threat we're under and to understand that we're in a moment when what's going on shut not be partisan. what the voters think, what the

republicans think should not matter. we all took an oath to constitution. we should all care that russia interfered in our election. if i can't tell directly my views, then i shouldn't undertake to explain the election. >> that's pretty significant you have a guy who is the first democrat in the sean. >> it is significant but the last thing you said, which is already significant, that it shouldn't be a partisan event. why first president in a long time that led office with approval ratings in the mid 60s. i personally think it's a mistake. the math isn't there for impeachment. you have to get 218 votes for

impeachment. you're not going to get republican votes except for jewel but a majority of the walk i'd like to see donald trump drawing in quarters but what we don't want to do is go through a a. >> there's a lot to be said for the moral imperative there. if that is what he believes as a lawmaker, he owes it to his constituents to pursue. it was disastrous for republicans to impeach bill clinton. not that he violated the law and leefrd the house if not

conviction about the and they do have an obligation to the constitution as well their consistency. >> i'm going to say also that with bill clinton and found out that bill clinton had committed perjury in front of a kr and those charges were so serious that he was disbarred by the supreme court of the united states and also in arkansas. itwe have robert mueller saying here are ten examples of how the president of the united states quite possibly obstructed justice, but i can't come to a conclusion whether he did obstruct justice in these ten cases because the justice department won't let me. >> it was limited he should have come to a conclusion and if you

read the part that donald trump's the proudest of, which he obviously hasn't read or he wouldn't bring it up, the part about the collusion, the and it is all just hanging out there. and you have an attorney general general who trying to i don't ever this up and mopand exactly like a defense attorney, then there needs to be a resolution to all these questions to, to quote richard nixon, the american people have the right to know whether their president is a crook. >> i hopely agree with you. the report is 448 pages and it's

very damning. and i believe in having an infantry and we have to really answer the question is this? do we believe that within pun and part of this is we cannot set this precedent that this president currently could potentially get away with it and not be held accountable. he needs to be held accountable it's their congressional duty. congress needs to act. this is the step they need to break. we can't wait this play out

until and hold the and we'll get those underlying document, we'll learn moe and i respect nancy pelosi and i think congress need to act and and robert mueller began the progress and they have a constitutional duty for oversight and then let the facts lead where the facts lead. so days after president trump accused the "new york times" of committing, quote, virtual act, an article in "the wall street journal" this morning "accusing

president trump of treason, where he doo iify gone from misrepresenting ours about with phrase that's been used by againin generations demagogue, accusing times of sky so grave it a command are in chief can mack a what would it loo like for plm krm krp and it's the most incendiary language available. what is left is putting his threats into the action. peter baker, what do you think

about his op-ed. >> solzberger came along because he wanted to deliver this message to the president, this language, this enemy of the people language, this fake news language, even before you got to the question of treason was damaging to not just "the new york times" but to journalists all over the world. in fact, you know, dictators around the globe were seizing on this kind of language to crack down on free expression in their own countries in a way that goes on even further than donald trump has done here and he gives power to people with the language. the traes before running that story. we said do you have any security concerns if we run this? they said no, there are no national security concerns if you run this story. secondly, he said it treason for

running a story that you say is true. we didn't spill any national security secrets. he's saying it's untrue and it treason. this is where we're at. and i think and it's good for not just to -- in the face of the argument from the president in the oval office. >> he's also used that word, whether or not it's positive it can be punishable by death is unclear. this is red rick about the media. it's not going anywhere. in his kickoff rally in orlando two nights ago, the first ten minutes of the speech were attacks on the media. we know he calls the press the enemy of the people. he does not seem to respect the job in american society.

we know reporters have gotten death threats, people who have mailed letter moms, who have been enand there's no sense that's going to abate. there is a believes that he's and they're looking into how can you better secure their employees, because of these concerns, whether it's inside the arena or outside at a trump rally and he is time and time again stoking the fires of these threats. >> i'm interested to get david ignati ignatius' view on the other side of debate. still ahead on "morning joe." >> here i am, blue collar town, blue collar kid, blue collar family and i'm sit hearing talking to you about yoga. why? >> and doing it.

he's gone what a year. we're going to be explaining when we go to the industrial midwest for some hot yoga. you're watching "morning joe." we're going to be right back. hey allergy muddlers... achoo! ...do your sneezes turn heads? try zyrtec... ...it starts working hard at hour one... and works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. zyrtec muddle no more.

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do you like my work? secure your home with x1 voice control. and have professional monitoring backing you up with xfinity home. demo at an xfinity store, call or go online today. who would you prefer as an adversary? >> i've been asked that question but you never know. i could comment on different ones but i won't comment too much. beeny looks like he's had it. bernie looks crazy but he always did, but he looks like a tired crazy right now. joe biden looks like he's just exhausted. i don't know what happened to him but he is exhausted and he doesn't do anything work. he's not working one thing i found out about this job to do it right, and i've done it right, you have to do it hard. >> now for the latest installment in our candidate

checkup series, dr. dave campbell pay as visit to presidential hopeful tim ryan. ♪ ♪ congressman ryan has teamed up with yoga instructor dan neffens nef nevins on the campaign trail. finding himself depressed and disconnected, he discovered that medication, mindfulness and yoga would save his life.

tim and dan are making yoga a campaign priority and are looking to bring a little zone to the. >> i think it's fantastic. it's fantastic for the rust belt. the work he does with veterans is awesome. >> he brings these core values to the midwest and particularly the steel valley. right now he has my vote. he's on the veterans' side. >> and being led by a veteran was a once in a lifetime experience. >> congressman ryan, and meditation and mabb what if to me it's essential today when you're in politics, it seems like every hour there's a reason to be really upset about something happening. there's conflict all around the world. a will the you've got to figure

out something for your self. doing hot yoga, meditating has been wonderful. >> when we just model it, not only practicing but taking the opportunity to share it with people, it takes the fear out of, well, how will react it's really difficult to say, hey, have you heard about meditation? i was the guy that was like, no, not yoga. but once you actually have the experience, it all starts to make sense. >> my priority with this is the veteran, with people who made the decision to serve other people. so if there's any which is why it's an essential part of my

presidential campaign. >> you have a few tough months coming up on the campaign trail. how do you stay healthy physically ormen have my wife tell me to take the garbage out. i need to be reconnected with the people that i love the most and and touching base is also really important, too, for my mental health. >> reporter: he believes it's more important than ever to integrate yoga into his program. he invited to us sit down with a few local veterans at a youngstown pub. >> how yoga and meditation can

get a little control over there substantial use crisis we have, the opioid crisis. how can we take advantage of the improved funding and the science behind medication-assisted treatment. >> for me it's all about getting people to understand it, to know about it. here i am an old quarterback from outside of youngstown ohio, who is in congress, blue collar town, blue collar family and i'm sitting here talking to you about yol a. why am i doing this? it helped me, it helps dan. it helps people who have addiction issues. i think leaders' jobs are to take these ideas that are working in one place or another and say, okay, how do we scale this up now?

>> one, two, three! >> whoa! >> reporter: i went along with him, his wife andrea, and their son, brady, to the park. i asked him about the impact of rising health care costs in america. >> the fact that $2 to $3 trillion a year go to treating diseases that have a cure. the pharmaceutical kls keep getting paid. that's a disease care system. >> what's the congressman's new approach to dealing with diabetes? >> start isn't -- nutrition, diet, support. for a $10,000 investment, you're going to reduce expenditures by

$14,000 a year for the rest of your life. some people say oh, my god, that's government intervention and here comes the government wants to tell you what to eat. i say [ bleep ]. what business person wouldn't make that same decision and you got a guy healthy. we've got this crazy argument noun like the bd you can reduce type two diabetes through food and support. that's the next generation of health care to me. >> sir, thank you very much for having us. >> and thank you, dr. dave for that. that was fascinating. you didn't see tim ryan as sort of the mindfulness hot yoga sort of guy. >> it's fascinating hearing from the rhett rans that a guy who

lost -- >> i'm glad you guys are doing this. it gives these candidates an opportunity to talk about their issues, highlight their states. right now we talk about the top tier, we talk a lot about bernie and it's great too have an avenue where they can talk about hot yoga and how veterans are really connecting to something that they need, some sort of being able to connect and find themselves and deal with the horrors of what they had to deal with and being facted. >> i've always, even before tim ryan got to congress and it was the great tim traffic cam. mr. chairman -- "mr. chairman" is what he would call everybody as he walked by.

ohio was in the 90s was the post-industrial example. i'll be looking to see what he brinhe, tim ryan, brings to the debate stage this week. >> youngstown h, ohio is a very likable place. donald trump claims to speak for the rust belt but when i travel that part of the country, i'm hearing a lot of frustration, people thinking that their lives haven't groten better, that plants aren't really opening. it will be interesting to let let's -- the fact that he's

doing it with a yoga instructor with a double amputation makes him a pretty interesting candidate. >> coming up, we'll discuss rising tensions in iran. a u.s. official says it was international airspace. "morning joe" coming right back to talk about that. back to talk about that thanks for coming. no problem. -you're welcome. this is the durabed of the all new chevy silverado. it looks real sturdy. -the bed is huge. it has available led cargo area lighting. lights up the entire bed. it even offers a built in 120 volt outlet.

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with us now former allied supreme leader, chief national security and diplomacy analyst for nbc news and msnbc. also with us, jonathan. donald trump told sean hannity last night don't worry, everything's fine. >> were doing reggae. >> "i shot the sheriff." that's what the i iran is saying. it's 130 foot wing span ksh fly flooi 12,000 miles, stay up 24 hours, costs $100 million.

this is a pretty big escalation. also because it's a direct shot at the united states as opposed to these tank are explosions they've been denying. >> if they shot down a $120 military drone, what do you say we do? >> i that package of options is being developed in the pentagon this morning, where, by the way, we have the third secretary of defense in the last six months. what we should be doing is working more closely with our european allies. think of them as swing voters. this is a political show. you got the u.s., you got iran. in the middle you got the returns. we've got to pull them bum back out of this things and the u.s. versus iran. that's go being hard. >> the trump administration loves their one-off deal, their bilateral deals.

there's no way trump can strike any kind of agreement with going to be be up for what's now a ma'am o i think in the end this is going to end badly. i think we're going to see strikes going one way or the other, significant ones. now, let's not jump to that or isk conclusion yet, you we've got to get the international piece of this. we got to get energy together to create more from cyber to borders, to ps it happened in international airspace, fine, show us the evidence. that will help bring the europeans on board. >> the president is telling

anyone who will listen that their strategy is economic pressure. it's tehran that would like to provoke a limited strike for their own purposes. but the pattern of escalation here is really disturbing. not just this drone strike but the two strikes on commercial shippi shipping. at what point does our nonresponse become negligence? >> i think we're right on the edge of that. if the iranians take one more step that closes the straight of hormuz, launches ballistic missiles, he gets attention and meetings with the president. iranians want relief from sanctions and they think this is the way to get it. i don't think they're going to get it. we're on a collision course in the iranian gifl.

so following up admiral starvidas' point, at what point did the iranians move to such down a u.s. drone, there have been attacks on shipping, that the u.s. is forced to respond. do you see that looming in the next days and weeks? >> i do. remember, the goal of the trump administration's policy allegedly or supposedly has been to pressure iran to negotiate. not to go to war with iran, but to bring iran back to the table. but the iranians have been responding in exactly the opposite way. they're responding to maximum pressure with maximum provocation. everything they've done so far has been formally deniable. although the u.s. came out immediately last week and said

iran was responsible for the attacks, america's european allies were much more reluctant to point the he finger decisively at iran. this changes the equation. they've claimed responsibility for it. it is relevant to learn where exactly the drone was shot down. the americans are claiming it was over the gulf. the iranians are claiming it was over iranian air space. i think that's actually very important to determine what iran's strategy here. because if it was shot down over iran, they can claim they were protecting their national integrity. >> let me ask you, admirable, the iranians obviously, since 1979, have defied all expectations. they have played the united states time and time again. i don't even go back to 1986 and the birthday cake shaped like a key or the bible. i just don't want to do that. they have made fools of us time and again. and usually they're three steps

ahead. they don't understand here is that they are the ones whose backs are against the wall. they are the ones who are being strangled economically right now but these sanctions. they're not going to get out of the corner shooting down u.s. drones. this is one of the first times, although i consider them to be the epicenter of international terrorist since 1979. this is one of the first times i've said to myself, how irrational the iranians are acting because they may be evil, but they are not irrational. they're kind of like the old soviet union who was conservative with a small "c." what do they think is going to happen to them when they shoot down u.s. drones? >> they are democracy prattly hoping that because president trump doesn't want to get dragged into a war with the run up to the 2020 elections, that they can use these incidents to force the administration to

mitigate its positions on sanctions. i don't think it's going to work, joe, and the last time we had an exchange of ordinance, so to speak, was with iran in 198737 we sunk a bunch of iranian warships because they went to close the strait of hormuz. i fear that is where we are heading and that is the miscalculation on the part of the iranians. >> the french and british will stay with us if we say they shot down a $130,000 aircraft when it was over international waters, we have to respond. our allies would stay with us on that. >> you would think so, but foreign policy has not been an issue for the democrats who are want to go replace president trump. do you think that has to change in light of what we're seeing here in the gulf? >> i hope so. the pressure will be on the

democrats to respond. they have studiously avoided the subject of foreign policy until now because of the perception that democratic voters don't actually care about foreign policy, which i think is not entirely accurate. but this is one of these cases where the demands of policy and the demands of politics start to clash because the dems may not want to talk about foreign policy at this point, but the world gets a vote, as well. and this is an issue that is going to demand some kind of a response. >> all right. jonathan, thank you so much. admiral, as always, great to have you here. still ahead, joe biden is facing backlash over his remarks about segregation of senators. but he's not backing down. we'll tell you why when "morning joe" returns. we'll tell you whyg joe" returns ...do your sneezes turn heads? try zyrtec... ...it starts working hard at hour one... and works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. zyrtec muddle no more.

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they're going to attend james clyburn's world famous fish fry. i would like to be there. the event, which first began nearly three decades ago, as become an important stop for democrats seeking the nomination. it offers them a chance to would voters in the early swing state, particularly in the african-american community. congressman clyburn stayed tight lipped on the possibility of endorsing a candidate ahead of the primary telling nbc news, quote, it would be a bit selfish for me to go out and please my political inclinations and therefore the foundation on which we are trying to build a new vibrant south carolina democratic party. organizers will serve fish and

bread. that is the way god planned it. that's the way god wants it to be in the words of the late, great billy preston. and jim clyburn, a defendant joe biden as he came under attack from fellow 2020 candidates for what he said about working with segregation of senators back in the 70s. we're back in two minutes. e 70s. we're back in two minutes. woman: (on phone) discover. hi. do you have a travel card? yep. our miles card. earn unlimited 1.5 miles and we'll match it at the end of your first year. nice! i'm thinking about a scuba diving trip. woman: ooh! (gasp) or not. you okay? yeah, no, i'm good. earn miles. we'll match 'em at the end of your first year. yeah, no, i'm good. i'm and i'm an emt.erer when i get a migraine at work, it's debilitating. if i call out with a migraine, that's one less ambulance to serve a community.

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so you can take on the markets with confidence. don't get mad. get e*trade and start trading today. on worry about ranlan proxy wars and terror. i worry about their alliance with vladimir putin and i'm not sure where china shakes out on all of this. as you look at the geopolitical work up there, iran, russia, china, tell me your concerns. >> i don't worry about a thing. everything is under control. don't worry about a thing. >> good. okay. so here i am and i was about to

say, pigs fly. i agree with sean hannity. i really do. i mean, and anybody that has seen what iran has done over the past decade. why don't we just take it back a notch to, like, 1979. no reason to worry about iran, but donald trump, can we get the music back up? donald trump, he's like, sort of at one of those tiki huts, right? maybe outside the florabama and he has a pina colada and they're about to have the interstate mullet toss and this music is in the background. and the nuclear weapons that are just rising slowly behind him and they -- and it says death to america scribbled in it. but what is donald doing? don't worry about a thing. he's saying, is that bob marley? i love bob marley. oh, my god, don't worry about a

thing. good morning. and welcome to "morning joe." i would have personally kept the music going while i did the introduction. i don't know. that's my way of saying keep the music going while i do the introduction. welcome to "morning joe," man. it's thursday, june 20th. with us we have white house reporters for the associated press jonathan lamere, former aide to the george w. bush white house and state department solice jordan, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst and he's writing a book actually on the history of reggae. you hear it here first. >> exactly. >> he's actually a huge jimmy cliff fan and he's going explain how that led to just the explosion of reggae worldwide. senior adviser move on of organize and an msnbc contributor careen jean pierre,

david ignatius, you know where he comes down on this. >> what, me worry? >> exactly. >> and jim vandehei. as you can tell already, just a couple of minutes in, mika has the morning off. >> all right. thank you so much. so first of all, david, i have to -- i do need to go to you because as hannity was talking, i said, oh, my god, okay, so there was a time when sean hannity sounded like a conservative and i agreed with sean hannity on a lot of things he said. but when he started ticking the down the problems, the proxy wars, everything that's been going on with the iranians, i was thinking, okay, idea, i agree with that. and then donald trump says, don't worry about a thing. everything is going to be okay. and, of course, that's what he's saying about north korea. that really sort of what he was

saying about syria until he was backed into a corner and forced to do it. we have gone from barack obama's, quote, lead from behind and don't do stupid stuff to don't worry be happy. donald trump, talk about right now how the pentagon may have a slightly different attitude and our arab allies might have a different view of what's going on right now. >> general silva is warning stridently that the iranians should be careful, should not miscalculation, should understands that any attack on any american vessel or personnel in this gulf confrontation will be met with severe american response. i think one way to think about this is that donald trump wants to play long game with iran.

he has sanctions that are squeezing the iranian economy. they're reducing iranian oil exports to close to zero and trump would just like to keep those screws tight. the iranians wavent to play the short game. they are going broke. they have a real problem. that's the basic issue you have here. trump says don't worry about it. this was a minor attack. we're fine. what he's really saying is don't not worry about this. we are where we want to be. so look for the long game the u.s. wants to play, the calm down versus the short spas moddic response from the iranians that want to try to break out. >> and we have a lot of democratic polls. everything is yelling at joe biden. we'll get to that in a second. i asked ben roads this question yesterday. it's a question people didn't have a an answer to a couple of years ago. there were three different forces in iran and each were

going their separate direction. the iranian remember. but who is in charge now? who can say we need to break out of this, we need to figure out a way to become a member of the international community in a way that will get this economic stranglehold lifted from around or necks? >> unfortunately, the intelligence reports that are described to me make very clear that since the united states has tightened these sanctions and specifically sanctioned the revolutionary gathered, that has added to the power of the worst of the worst in iran. it has made life more difficult for those like president rouhani, perhaps, like foreign minister zarif who would like to be in a negotiation with the u.s. a demonstration of that was when the prime minister of japan shows up in tehran last week carry ago letter from president

trump inviting some kind of broader negotiation and the ayatollah supreme leader, they don't call him that for nothing, said basically i will not negotiate with you. i won't answer the letter. i won't deal with the united states. so any question who was running the show, that was answered without the abe visit. still ahead on "morning joe," joe biden tries to make a point about political stability and ends up prompting a political firestorm. we're going the break down the issue surrounding his comments on segregation of senators coming up next on "morning joe." s coming up next on "morning joe." welcome to our busy world. where we all want more energy. but with less carbon footprint. that's why, at bp, we're working to make energy that's cleaner and better. we're producing cleaner-burning natural gas. and solar and wind power. and wherever your day takes you... we have advanced fuels for a better commute. and we're developing ultra-fast-charging technology for evs.. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. so we can all keep advancing.

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joe biden has a large lead in the poll, but he's defiantly rejecting criticism from others after remarks on tuesday night working with powerful segregationists early in his career, channeling a southern draw, biden said i was in the caucus with james o. eastland.

he never called me boy. he always called me son. there was civility. we got things done. we didn't agree on much of anything. we don't things done. but today, you look at the other side and you're the enemy. not the opposition, the enemy. we don't talk to each other any more. yesterday, cory booker called on biden to apologize and he said you don't joke about calling black men boys. vice president biden's relationship with proud segregationists are not the model for how we make america a safer and more inclusive place for everyone. in maryland last night, biden reacted with indignation and he called on booker to apologize. >> i could not have disgreat with jim eastland more and he was a segregationist. i ran for the united states senate because i disagreed with the views of the segregationists. what i was talking about was the

voting rights act. i was able to pass the voting rights act while i was a young senator and he was the chairman. the point i'm making is you don't have to agree. you don't have to like the people in terms of their views, but you simply make the case and you beat them. you beetle them, without changing the system. >> how does it feel that your democratic rivals are implicitly saying that you have issues talking about race? >> they know better. >> are you going to apologize? >> apologize for what? >> cory booker has called for it. >> corey should apologize. he knows better. there's not a racist bone in my body. i've been involved in civil rights my whole career, period, period, period. >> and last night, senator booker responded this way. >> when he says almost jokingly, remember he was mocking a southern accent when he said that. they didn't call me boy. they called me son. the reason why they call a young white man son is because

desegregationists, they could see in him themselves. the reason why they would call black men boys was an attempt to establish the other, to dehumanize, to degrade them. and for him not to understand this and why people would take a deep offense to the way he used and dredged up this awful language -- i know i was raised to speak truth to power and that i will never apologize for doing that. and the vice president biden shouldn't need this lesson. >> bernie sanders shared booker's statement on social media. i agree. i agree with cory booker, especially when the trump administration is trying to divide us. >> senator elizabeth warren said i'm not here to criticize other democrats, but i'm going to criticize another democrat. she said the celebration, you can't celebrate segregationists,

never. i didn't know he did. here is senator kamala harris and new york city mayor bill de blasio. >> to caudal the reputations of segregationists, of people who if they had their way, i would literally not be standing here as a member of the united states senate is, i think, it's misinformed and it's wrong. he's going to have to make that decision. but let's be very clear that the senators that he is speaking of with admiration are senators that made and build their reputation on segregation. >> my wife is african-american. we have two beautiful children. james eastland literally thought my wife and i should not have the legal right to marry and that our children should not exist. i think the bottom line here is why on earth would a democrat speak nostalgically of working with a segregationist? >> oh, my lord.

how do we want to do this? how do we want to do this? should i talk firsts and then everybody can yell at me? >> pretty much. >> okay. pretty much. first of all, i just -- kamala, i love kamala. but joe biden didn't caudal any segregationists in anything that he said. in fact, i think he called one of them one of the meanest people he ever met. if that's coddling, please, stay away from me, joe, don't hug me, don't caudal me. that's not coddling. also, he didn't speak with adoration about desegregationists. his point was -- i mean, it wouldn't have been very persuasive if he said, you know what? i have proven over the past 30 years i can work with tom carper and every member of the delaware delegation. that is not the point. he picked the people who were the most repugnant to him, who he disagreed with the most and

he said i could even work with him. is it rumsfeld that says you fight on the battlefield with the enemy that is presented to you, something like that, right? well, guess what? fdr, the brilliance of fdr was he could work with the yankees from new england and he could work with segregationists and racists from the south. and you know what happened when fdr did that? he passed social security. he passed the new deal. he saved this country and he saved poor people like my parents. in the deep south, he also saved black americans. in chicago. i mean, fdr didn't sit there and go, you know what? i'm not going to deal with the racists in the south. ellen and i have just going the sit here and have tea and we're going to have radio broadcasts where we speak all day. and we may have a crumpette, too, but the point is, i'm not talking to those people because

they offense me. it would have been a pretty bad country if that happened. he also had to deal with the same segregationists as we moved towards world war ii to defeat hitler. sometimes to get to 60 votes, to change america, you have to deal with people whose views you may find repugnant. you can say the same thing about lbj who had to deal with people in '64 and '65. he had to drag them over the finish line to pass the voting rights act. he did it. in '64 and '65. so, you know, i understand everybody wants to knock joe biden, wants to take him down a notch or two, but i'm sorry, as a southern baptist, this is like people in the southern baptist conference,lty of us get really upset when billy graham went to the soviet union back in the 1980s. why would he do that? billy graham said because i think communists need joe biden, too.

joe biden wasn't converting, but he wasn't sitting there preaching to the choir. let's start with you. >> you're about to jump up on the table. >> i think we could have a really good debate here as the fellow southern baptist who grew up in the south. we're talking about an era when jim crow was still law of the land. we're talking about language working with people before they had worked out the civil rights act. so i think to go back to that kind of language in this era when he should be more politically savvy, if he wants to win fwh this climate of the democratic party -- >> what language are we talking about? >> boy, saying the word "boy." growing up in the south, i grew up with -- >> so are we talking about that part of the interview or are we talking about him actually -- the larger point which was he worked with segregationists, he knew how to get things done even with people who --

>> the larger point, i think, is fine. i think it's the casualness, you know, making fun, making light of the behaviors that were accepted during that period that should not have ever been accepted. >> so i think it was offensive using segregationists as an example and saying that it was a civil time. when what -- when he says those things, it brings back a time for black americans at that time who did not see this environment as civil to them, who if you think about that body of senators, they were denying the rights of black people. when you have someone who wants to be the leader of the democratic party, who goes back to a time that was incredibly hurtful and you look at the moment we are in today, 24 hours prior to we learned about the statement, he said it the same night of donald trump's rally, you saw white supremacists

marching to donald trump's rally. you saw the current president basically encouraging and inviting these kind of very hateful people, right? white supremacy, nazis. and this is the same kind of behavior that we saw from donald trump during charlottesville. so it is a very kind of sensitive moment for people and hurtful moment. so when you have joe biden saying that, it really does trigger things for people. and one last thing i want to say. in that clip that you shows and you have biden standing outside in front of the black suv and he's going back and foshth with him, he's talking about cory booker, he's joke background not being called a boy. then cory booker says it is dehumanizing for blank black men to be called a boy. and cory booker, one of three african-american senators, right, he tells cory booker that he needs to apologize to him.

i think there is -- >> that's the worst part of it. >> that is really the worst part of that, with that piece that i saw. and i had just shows he is out of step. and i've said this on many shows. i love joe biden. i got to work very closely with him. i do not think he is a racist. but it is problematic -- >> did cory booker suggest that he was a racist of racially insensitive? >> i think racially insensitive, probably. i think cory booker can speak for himself. but it is problematic that he brought that up as an example. >> remember trent lot? >> yeah, but there's a huge difference. trent lot had said, as you well remember, trent lot said the nation would have been much better if strum had been elected in '48. again, steve, what joe biden was saying is i can even work with the deplorables.

i can work with those segregationists because they had no choice at the time. and i didn't scream and yell. we figure dollars out a way to work together even though we disagreed with each. just like alexander hamilton dealt with a lot of virginia slave owners at the beginning of the remember. and yes, how deeply, deeply horrifically offensive that was. >> i was going to add to your list that if it weren't for lbj dealing with some of those people, we wouldn't have medicare or medicaid and part of the great society. but look, i was at that event where biden spoke and let me put it in context. and i'm not disagreeing or taking offense of what you said. this was a piece of a long biden

wapderring of the landscape. secondly, this was something shah in in a bit of a democratic debate at the moment. which is do you do better trying to work with the other side or do you do better by trying to get a super majority or large group of progressives together and ram stuff through on a one-party vote. and he was staking out ground which is not where everybody else is that you want to work together and the way to get stuff done is to work together. this bit that has gotten all the attention was a paragraph, maybe a sentence in this broader construct that he was trying to create about working with other people. look, do you think he could have picked two better charchls of people he worked with? sure. i guess he could have. >> but -- as a lawyer, i would say no, he couldn't pick two better examples. those are the examples you would pick because they were the

people that you found to be most deplorable. and yes, i could work with them even though their views were deplorable. we found a way to work together, get 60 votes, figured out a way to do a lot of things that helped a lot of americans. and one other thing, too, you brought up charlottesville. i think it's very telling that joe biden, jim, and then we'll wrap this up, it's important to remember that when joe biden launched his campaign, what did he launch it talking about? charlottesville. he said he was running and knew that he was going run after he saw the racism in donald trump's approach to xharltsville. >> you talk to people around biden, they're less concerned about sort of the lasting effect of whether or not people are accusing him of racism because they think that's nonsense. what concerns them is that he's talking about something that happened so far in the past,

that he looks like a man out of touch with the times. and one of the things they've been working on is look forward, everyone wants to make it look like you've been in politics and there is a lot of talk beyond you. how can he start to move forward, not make all these references, regardless of who the characters are, stop making references about people 10, 20, 30 years ago because you have others making the case about what the new america looks like and what the new democratic party should look like. and if it ends up being him against somebody who has a vision that feels more of the moment and more of something that will shape democrats for the future, that's what scares them. so that is what is going through biden's mind when you see how he's talking. coming up, we'll hear from

congressman joaquin castro. plus, john kennedy joins the conversation. "morning joe" back in a moment. e conversation "morning joe" back in a moment our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition... for strength and energy! whoo-hoo! great-tasting ensure. with 9 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. ensure, for strength and energy. look for savings in your weekly paper. here are even more reasons to join t-mobile. 1. do you like netflix? sure you do. that's why it's on us. 2. unlimited data. use as much as you want, when you want.

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with respect to iran's connection toes al qaeda are very real. thee they've hosted al qaeda. there is no doubt there is a connection between iran and al qaeda. >> is there direct evidence of iran having operational control over al qaeda? >> if the use of military force is necessary to defend u.s. national security interests, we will do everything that we are required to do with respect to congressional war powers and we will comply with the law. >> the state department's special representative on iran at a house foreign affairs hearing yesterday on whether the trump administration is preparing to tell congress its has approval to go to war with iran under the 2001 authorization because of ties between tehran and al qaeda. with us now, the vice chairman of that subcommittee democratic congressman joaquin castro of texas.

so, congress mran, is there a link between al qaeda and iran? >> not in the way that the administration is trying to establish. and certainly not in a way that would allow the administration under the 2001 aumf to basically go to war with iran. and so even some republican members have said they don't believe the 2001 aumf gives the administration the ability to go to war with iran. >> so noah, do you think there's any linkage? >> in the 9/11 commission report, they demonstrated there were connections between iran and al qaeda operatives. however, i think the congresswoman is correct that the notion that the 2001 uamf covers is dubious, especially since the house just repealed it. >> also, didn't iran help us quietly behind the scenes after anyone and argue? >> iran is directly responsible for the deaths of american

soldiers, many in iraq and afghanistan. >> but there was a moment after 9/11 where they were briefly allies. >> it's ancient history now. >> no, no, i'm just talking about linkage between al qaeda and iran and how tight that nexus is. i've been saying since 1979 that iran has been the epicenter of terrorism since 1979. this is a much more confined questions. >> it's not nonexistence, but it's not a strong connection. the administration doesn't want to seek a new uamf for an attack on iran when it arguably needs if it's not in self-defense. congressman, you said it is your impression that this administration is hell bent on moving towards war with iran. in the interim, we've had now multiple attacks on commercial shipping and an attack on an

american drone and the administration's response seems relatively restrained. so what is your view as to why it is the administration that is being belicose and not iran? >> the person that did the fox news town hall was my twin brother who is running for president. >> i am sorry. that is a truly awful confusion on my part. but i'm sure it's not the first time this happened. >> people always confuse me, congressman, with my evil twin brother, skippy. go ahead. skippy what on yesterday yelling about robert mueller. i was horrified watching it at home. >> this administration has taken a posture where it's basically been trying to provoke iran into a conflict. we have to be very careful about that. there isn't much of an appetite as speaker pelosi said among the majority members of congress to get into a full fledged war with iran. and so i do sit on the intelligence committee. based on what i've seen in the

intelligence committee, what i've heard from our allies, i think that this administration with people like john bolton and even secretary pompeo are being hyperbolic about the intelligence perhaps bending the intelligence to make their case for a conflict with iran. >> congressman, let's talk more about the intelligence that the special envoy brian hook presented about the linkage with al qaeda and iran. you said that you didn't believe that it was strong enough to warrant kinetic action. could you talk about their presentation of the case and how he disagreed with it. >> mostly because what they're telling us is not anything new. we have known that these links have existed for years and there is isn't anything with respect to that link that would precipitation a war right now. in other words, with the intelligence that we have in

terms of that link, you could have made the case five years ago or on 1 years ago for a war. and so obviously we didn't. nobody did. i still don't think that it rises to the level of taking action of going to war with iran. >> congressman, it's john. let's get your take on the breaking news overnight about the drone that was shot down. there's some dispute as to exactly where that happened. what are you hearing? >> we still have not gotten a full fledge briefing on that. so i'm looking forward to it. but, again, we have to make sure that we move at the right pace, that the united states military through this administration doesn't take any quick action or any action without consulting the united states congress. so i'm looking forward to getting a further briefing on that. in terms of a drone being shot down, that is not the same thing as an airplane or a united states ship with sailors on

there being struck. part of the reason that you've got drone technology is because it means that you don't have to put human beings, your personnel, in harm's way. >> it is $120 million, though. >> it is. >> and it is an act of aggression, right? >> sure. it would be. but, again, whether we're going to go to war over somebody striking down a mechanical piece of something, a drone in this case -- remember, that's part of the reason that you've got drones is because it's a different kind of basically surveillance where you don't have to put your human beings at risk. >> yeah, but i mean, we don't have drones so iran can shoot them down if they're in international waters. >> i agree. >> so it seems to me if those strikes continue -- again, i'm only talking about how will the europeans react. i suspect if they continue shooting down u.s. drones that france, britain and other european allies will say, go

ahead if you want to have a measured strike, we won't object. >> yeah. we are in dangerous territory, to say the least right now. and i guess my quench for the representative is how do you avoid conflict? what is it with iran? what can we do? what can you do in congress to avoid this? >> that is a great question. i disagreed with the administration's positions in backing out of the iran deal. i think when the decision was made to get out of the jcpoa there is auto domino effect. the trump administration has approached iran in the last several months the way you would see a guy get in somebody else's face hoping that the other person punches so that he can punch back. that has basically been the approach of the administration. right now, we're holding a line, many of us are, that the administration has to come to congress for any authorization to use military force against iran. and we're going to keep pushing them on that. >> congressman, thank you so

much and i for one thank you, too. should run for president. coming up next, boeing has faced a lot of criticism in the wake of two fatal crashes. now captain sully sullenberger, the retired pilot known for the miracle on the hudson, is weighing in 37. plus, we're going to be joined by republican senator john kennedy. "morning joe" will be right back. dy "morning joe" will be right back we call it the mother standard of care.

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thankfully, the governor's charter school policy task force just made important recommendations for reform: more accountability on charter school spending. and giving local school districts more control over the authorization of charter schools. reforms we need to pass now. so call your state senator. ask them to support ab 1505 and ab 1507. we owe it to everyone who flies, passengers and crews alike to make sure pilots will be able to handle an unexpected emergency and keep passengers and crews safe. but first, we should design aircraft for them to fly that do not have inadvertent traps sets for them. they need to develop a muscle memory of their experiences so that it will be immediately accessible to them in future, even years from now, when they face such a crisis. >> yeah.

hear, hear. by the way, we knew that was coming up, so we started talking about flights, denzel, everybody saw e"flight" here? >> of course. >> you didn't see it? >> of course what does that lead us to? "book of eli." and everybody has of course seen "book of eli," right? >> no. >> i think i've seen it 47 times. that and you've got mel right up there, in different movies completely. but listen, if you've got nothing to do, watch "book of eli" and then you've got to watch "flight." oh, my god. "book of eli," wow. anyway, i know this is why you tune into the show because you want me to tell you what movie toes watch weekend. anyway, that was captain sully sullenburger and he's calling on all pilots to undergo advanced training.

speak to the house committee hearing yesterday, he said all pilots need to take sessions in a full motion simulator, not just a computer program to fully understand the automated stabilization system that has been at the heart of these crashes. the jet liner model has been grounded after two 737 max crashes claimed the lives of 346 people. let's begin right now, sara isen. did captain sully's system have any impact on boeing stock? >> boeing stock had already been heart hit going into this testimony. and now that pilots are speaking out against boeing, not really having such a major impact and that's because, joe, the paris air show is also going on this week and boeing is actually receive something surprise orders. like yesterday, at the same time that was in testimony, british airways parent company, iag, put an intent letter, a humbling 200-plane letter of intent.

in other words, it's going buy some of those grounded 737 max planes when they go back up in the air. and that is something that wall street cares about, the sales impact on boeing, even if some of this testimony was quite damaging. and i'll just bring you one other line that stood out to me in the captain sully sull sullenberger's testimony. he said it could have happened in the u.s., play down the fact that these were foreign pilots with far less experience. moving on, wall street has been in a celebration mode after the federal reserve came out yesterday. they did not cut interest rates as president trump has urged them to do, but they did do something very important. for the first time, they hinted that they are leaning towards cutting interest rates, moving into easier policy, more of a stimulative mode. the market loves stimulus. he cited the trade risks many

times. he said we have to wait and see what happens, but the betting here on wall street is that the federal reserve is going to move to cut interest rates in july. will it be enough for president trump? well, jay powell said the law is clear. i intend to serve out my full year term, although the president has been critical. >> all right. thank you so much. >> thank you. and coming up -- >> we are going to appoint mad dog mattis as our secretary of defense. shanahan is doing a fantastic job as the acting secretary of defense. mark esper, who is a highly respected gentleman with a great career, west point, harvard, a tremendous talent he was just named acting secretary of defense. >> president trump is now on his third secretary of defense. two of them acting, of course.

we're going ask senator john kennedy about the impact on the military ahead on "morning joe." military ahead on "morning joe." i don't know what's going on. i've done all sorts of research, read earnings reports, looked at chart patterns. i've even built my own historic trading model. and you're still not sure if you want to make the trade? exactly. sounds like a case of analysis paralysis. is there a cure? td ameritrade's trade desk. they can help gut check your strategies and answer all your toughest questions. sounds perfect. see, your stress level was here and i got you down to here, i've done my job. call for a strategy gut check with td ameritrade. ♪

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listen, let me ask you. i want to talk about immigration in a bit. >> okay. >> first, let's talk about what is happening in iran. you know, i would guess your constituents were a lot like mine. they don't want us to be the world's policemen but at the same time they don't want iran shooting down $120 million drones over the persian gulf. so what do you tell your constituents about what america's next move should be in the gulf? >> i tell my constituents, joe, that we should keep doing what we're doing. military restraint but maximum pressure. those sanctions are biting. they're hurting. i feel bad for the people of iran. but it's necessary. i think iran is now a very fragile, exhausted theocracy. i think the ayatolla is desperate. i think if we just continue to do what we are doing, maximum

pressure, but military restraint, that eventually, maybe sooner rather than later, the ayatolla is going to come to the table. he's looking to europe for help. europe is silent. and the sanctions are biting. again, i feel bad for the people of iran. >> yeah. >> but the ayatolla, you know, we've just got to contain him and i think we're doing that. >> so there is a give and take inside the administration obviously between john bolton who has always been very hawkish on iran, russia, north korea, and the president of the united states, who is an anti-interventionist. what do you see when you see that give and take? do you think regardless of what happens donald trump is going to remain committed to not intervening, not taking military strikes against the iranians? >> well, in the history of ever,

i'm not sure it's possible to predict what the president is going to do but i like his approach so far. i think the dialectic within the administration is good. i think it's healthy. i think the idea -- i don't mean to show disrespect but i think the idea that we should unilaterally attack iran is a dorm room idea. i just think what we're doing is working. iran is desperate. it is desperate. i think it is trying to provoke an attack and within reason. now, if they attack american boys and girls over there, then that is a different story. but i don't think the ayatolla will do that. he's not a stupid man. he's an evil man, but he's not a stupid man. >> let me read you what former vice president joe biden just said. keeping his focus on the run for the white house in the midst of a controversy. a new statement out just moments ago declaring president trump's iran strategy is, quote, a

self-inflicted disaster, adding he unilaterally withdrew from the hard-won nuclear agreement and promised that walking away somehow would lead to a better deal. instead, the predictable has happened. iran is building back up its nuclear capability. it is sadly ironic the state department is now calling on iran to abide by the very deal the trump administration abandoned. senator, what is your response? >> i think vice president biden is a very talented guy. i think this is america. his opinion matters. just not to me on this issue. i don't think he can be objective. he is running for president of the united states and running against donald trump and he is running in a primary where his constituency is moving further to the left and he's not about to say anything to compliment the president of the united states against whom he is running. let me say it again. i think what the president is doing and secretary pompeo makes sense to me.

military restraint but maximum pressure. >> right. >> we've got iran down. we don't need to try to choke them to death right now. we just need to keep the pressure on. >> you respect joe biden as a man, right, a vice president for his service to america? >> of course, yes. but when you run for president -- >> of course. i get that. >> it changes your perspective on things. >> i just knew you were going to answer that way from hearing you talk before and i wanted our viewers to hear that, that there are people that can disagree without being disgreebl. let me ask you about your immigration plan. i'm curious about it and also what you thought about what the white house put out a couple weeks ago where they were talking about an immigration plan that focused more on skills than, say, family connections and deciding who comes to america and who doesn't. >> i think we ought to take a look at our criteria for welcoming people to our country, but right now i think we've got to contain the crisis at the

border. look, i think people respond to incentives. i think there are some bad people coming into our country from central america, but i think there are also some very good people. why are they coming? they're coming because of the deplorable conditions in el salvador. >> so looking to keep them there? >> i wouldn't re-establish the funding. if i were king for a day, i don't aspire to be, i would call a summit with the leadership and the northern triangle countries. i would ask the president of mexico and i would say, gentlemen, let's sit down and talk about what, if anything, we can do together. america is not going to throw money at the problem. we're not going to let the leadership steal it down there. i think their leadership to some extent is corrupt. but the simple answer, the short-term answer, joe, is to

fix our sovereign laws. everybody on capitol hill knows that. they know they make no sense. the democrats know it. the republicans know it. i think the reason we haven't been able to do it is because some of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle allow their feelings about the president to cloud their otherwise good judgment. >> all right. senator john kennedy, we will leave it there. thank you so much for being on today. >> thanks, joe. >> all right. final thoughts, jonathan? >> i want to go back to our passionate discussion earlier about vice president biden. i think there are -- you can come on either side of the issue about his comments about the segregationist senators but i think what is undeniable is the democratic race, primary race has entered a new chapter. the gloves are off from the other contenders who are now showing no hesitation going after biden on this issue and others and that will continue next week during the debates. >> just in time for the debates. >> i'm glad we got to talk about iran and the escalation of iranian activities in the

region. we need to have more of a discussion about the authorization of use of force in congress and we need to have donald trump make the case to the american people if he is going to decide to go to war, which i think would be a mistake. >> yes, 18 years later. we probably need a new resolution. >> just touching on what you just said there about joe biden, i think there is always -- there has always been a fear -- people seem as a standard bearer there were people very excited about him jumping in and i think the fear has always been with these folks i spoke to, is he going to have these gaffes, is he going to be able to stand up? i fear that we have come into a place where we're learning, okay. this could be problematic. can he hold on and make it through out of this primary? it's concerning. >> briefly on biden, there is real hurt from those comments but the senate puts a premium on collegiality and it wasn't scandalous until a little bit ago. anybody who has been in the

senate has a collegial relationship with people who are possibly unsatisfactory, barack obama's relationship with robert bird was touted frequently as a bridge building measure. if democrats want to engage on that go back and look on that as something to be indicted for they'll open up a can of worms. >> that does it for this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. thanks so much. good morning. i'm stephanie ruhle. it is 9:00 a.m. on the east coast and we start with a remarkable look at the state of american politics. on one side you've got president trump kicking off his campaign by intentionally sharpening the political and cultural divide and getting slammed by democrats. on the other side, you've got joe biden, trying to show that he can bridge that divide and getting slammed by democrats. we'll get to biden in just a moment. i want to go first to the president. let's bring in brian bennett senior white house correspondent for "time" magazine, robert