good evening. anchoring live from msnbc headquarters in new york. right now for our special tonight on the first democratic debate as voters will see the largest, most diverse group of candidates in modern history. 20 candidates, two nights, everything on the table. who can really confront and defeat donald trump? >> the guy just doesn't understand the job. >> a threat to america. >> people are tired of the chaos. >> the president deserves to be

impeached. >> and a race that begins with democrats proclaiming unity. >> joe biden is on the side of the credit card companies. >> we cannot return to the past. >> we are not socialists. >> it's misinformed, and it's wrong. >> tonight's msnbc special, the road to miami starts right now. you hear the music? that means something is going on. good evening to you. we're live for the next two hours with a show that is different than some other shows. here's why. you probably know. this week 20 democratic candidates will take that debate stage in miami. it is no exaggeration to say by the end of this week there could be new signs of how the field could begin thinning because the candidates that come to the debates and fail to stand out,

they often don't recover, which puts pressure on this unusually large field facing off this wednesday and thursday. let me tell you what we are doing with this special tonight. we are going to do deeper on strategy, policies and some psychology over the next two hours. we have the latest on some of the stories breaking this sunday evening, including debates over joe biden's comments and how these candidates will approach donald trump's escalating tensions with iran. we'll hear from the man in charge of these debates and more. next hour, we go deeper with people who have been in the arena. a former presidential debate participant, reverend al sharpton. and then my exclusive with malcolm gladwell, breaking down the psychology for voters who, tell me if you have ever felt like this, are seeing a choice overload with 20 plus candidates in this field. as we head into the debates, joe biden speaking out today trying to tamp down backlash over his

working relationship with southern segregation of senators inside the delegation in the past which sparked words with other candidates, including corey. >> the way he said it caused hurt and harm by saying, hey, this racist called me son, didn't call me boy. well, it evoked a lack of understanding, an ignorance. >> i do understand the consequence of the word boy, but it wasn't said in any of that context at all. to the extent that anybody thought that i meant something different, that is not what i intended. >> biden has been doing far less press than most of his rivals. but he may be jumping over this topic now to diffuse it before he takes the stage on thursday. today's times with al sharpton who is an msnbc host and a civil

rights leader. while that has been a big debate between democrats, when it comes to taking on trump, the president fuelling more debates with his delay to round up immigrant families that were supposed to occur this weekend. a walkback also on the potential strike against iran. most democratic candidates do welcome those outcomes. but they're still slamming the president for his process and allegations. let's get right to it, kicking off our special coverage with this spashl panel. thanks to all of you for joining us this sunday night. >> thank you, ari. >> great to see you. i give it to you first looking at where joe biden got to. is this diffused before he took the stage. >> i think we have two priorities going into 2020. we have to get trump out of

office. the second is we have to have a progressive agenda. he represents a buy gon era of politics. but what i needed biden to do was condemn the language and actions of those men and the resurgence of people this think that way. that's the reason that many of these folks are speaking out, because biden tried to use them to talk about the way in which he could be bipartisan before saying iabhore everything they stand for. i think that's what he intended. but that's not what he delivered. and what we need in this moment is a kind of moral clarity. and that moral clarity begins with condemning a vowed racist. >> does he also look a little too casual in how he sort of rolling the stuff out? because there are many ways to talk about working across the aisle. i believe the guy at the top of that ticket, barack obama, talked about it plenty without

ever stepping in something like this. >> right. joe biden always steps in it, though. this is like -- it is like when he called barack obama clean and articulate. the challenges he feels entitled and dismissive. he's not on pitch and on tone for this moment. people feel very on edge about the political atmosphere that donald trump has ushered in where we're seeing levels of racism we haven't seen in our lifetime and in 40 years of democratic politics. and, so, biden really has to be very clear about what side he stands on and right now with him being dismissive, that makes people of color, who are feeling especially vulnerable feel like can you really hear our concerns? and the democratic party is the party of the people of color in this moment. that's going to be his core constituency. if he can't appeal to our real feelings about racism, then he's not going to be the candidate. >> take a listen to some of the other candidates in south

carolina which like florida has a diverse voting population in a primary and the general part of the state. take a look. >> we defeat trump by running a campaign of energy and enthusiasm that substantially grows voter turn-out. >> does that mean he wants to take us back before the civil rights act was enacted, before roe v. wade? because we're not going back. >> donald trump started the riot and lindsey graham and mitch mcconnell are the looters. >> beating donald trump is the floor. it's not the ceiling. beating donald trump gets us out of the valley, but it does not get us to the mountain top. >> so they're all striking the same note in saying they want energy. but what i'm seeing right now is it is too much about donald trump. a lot of these voters will say, how are you going to make my life different. when i go on the ground and start talking to different individuals trying to figure out what is it about the democratic

party versus trump, for democrats it is all about not trump. the opportunity for the democrats, though, is how are we going to inspire the new voter? and that is the market share they need to gain. you will have 12 million more voters for the first time in the mid-term election one out of six voters for young voters. how are you going to persuade them to come to you. you have 15 million unregistered latinos. so how are you going to ignite that ability for them to get excited and say you because the majority of democrats are going to go out and turn out for whoever the candidate is. what they need to do is be able to inspire that new base. >> and then when you look at what people are going to actually see, this is the first time people see these candidates. we know that historically. but they're going to see a little bit of a lot of candidates. and, you know, you remember

gol goldilocks. they asked democrat leaning voters, are there too many candidates? too few? or about right? 72% of dem leading voters say there are too many candidates. how does that play into what they have to do on that stage? >> well, it makes their work very hard. when i was covering presidential years, my favorite part of being a journalist, i loved this time of year because it's a voyage of discovery for the voters and the candidates. and the candidates are trying to discover whether they are really presidential candidates or wannabes. i love the drama of this. i thought there is nobody paddling on biden. he had a bad two weeks. and i thought he had a very weak showing on saturday because he ran through his speech as if he were on autopilot. his managers have a unique

tactical problem in presidential pol politics. they can't let biden be biden. he can talk himself out of the race. and he -- it is much too early to say he's going to do that, but he had a really bad two weeks. and on saturday he was acting like he is going to coast to an inherited position. i handicap the folks as i went through. >> i want to hear your handicap. but didn't it work for hillary clinton to just be a front runner in 2008? >> did it work? >> it's a joke. it was a joke. >> i was going to say. >> where do the democrats come? it is sunday night. it's been a long weekend. we'll pull out of it. just to finish up the point you are making, where is it that these democrats, some of them anyway, watch this happen before and then say, oh, yeah, i should do a rose garden of what you are saying and wait around as if that's ever worked.

>> no. it doesn't work. you sort of took us all by surprise with that question. but let me try to tease out something here. and that is who got what they needed at this -- on this very crowded stage? and i thought that kamala harris and corey booker came away in very good shape because they projected themselves as real contenders for the minority vote in south carolina. and they were right perfectly on pitch. senator harris with her invocation of the movement. corey booker with his invocation of martin luther king's dream and the other person that had a good weekend was elizabeth warren because she has dominated the issues discussion with medicare for all and the polls in south carolina show that her message is working there. and if it works there and she comes out of new hampshire and iowa in a strong way, she'll be a factor. >> i think everybody watching the debates on wednesday and thursday, what they will be

looking for is who can do toe to toe with donald trump. that is going to be the underlying question with them. so they could speak pretty. but if they can't feel like they are presidential like they could actually knock the sky down, that is going to basically be a ding on them. for a lot of these folks, it will be a marathon. they don't want to tarnish whoever the democratic is. it is a different type of race where before you wanted to ding down your candidates as fast as possible. there is an understanding unz tone that whoever ends up being the democratic nominee, they can't be bruised and that's really tough. >> could i sound a slight dissent on that? >> sure. >> denies are going to come out early. that's one reason for this crowded field. and despite this talk about keeping our nominee intact, it's going to be a real brawl because everyone in there professes friendship, bernie sanders for senator warren. but they're all in it to win it.

and i think it is going to get dirty early. i don't think any of them are worried about cutting anyone else up. >> and our voters deserve that. we deserve to have a robust primary. to your point, this needs to be an issues discussion. if we just make this about who beats donald trump, we'll go with the safe candidate. but the risk of that we will use a whole generation of progressive politics. we have an opportunity to do something about student loans, an opportunity to break up big corporations. we've got an opportunity to actually get medicare for all. these are huge issues, and they're issues for millennials and generation z. we can actually concede this moment of progressive possibilities simply because trump is such a distraction. and, so, i worry sometimes when we begin to talk about who is most presidential, right? part of what that does is disadvantaging women and people of color. so what i'm hoping is that folks will go ahead and pull their knives. people got to fight for it. donald trump is a puig list.

people want to know who can beat him intellectually and out pace him morally and tamp down his tone and his ability to dominate conversations by just yelling in people's ear. sometimes the people that can do that are a little bit quieter and they force you to lean in and listen. that's what i hope happens here. >> i think all of that actually is the reason why i actually think like someone of a person of color or a woman is an actual opportunity. >> yeah. >> because people are saying, you know what, the same old politics hasn't worked. i think there is an almost understanding of we can go ahead and fight toe to toe when it comes to policy. when we start talking about character assassin, they will be treading carefully. >> we have got to appeal -- see, when people feel afraid, they don't want to take risks. they want to go for the safe option. i'm looking for a candidate that will say, here is why it is worth risking on me because that's the people we need. even though you feel totally assaulted by this current president, it is actually not

the moment to play it safe. it is actually the moment to go big. >> that's going to be audacious policy. >> exactly. >> the people that voted for donald trump in 2016 tossed a coin and said we never recovered financially from 2008. that's why you saw so many white women vote for him. what happened in 2018, they said, wait a second, we need our health care and family separation is not okay. so you saw a whole bunch of sub ber ban white women come back. the economy, yes, may be in recovery, but i'm still not okay. how are you going to have these conversations with the american people? >> who walks off that debate stage with voters who are actually tuning in for the first time that might be different than people like us. that's what you are doing. you are running to have something to do for everyone in service when trump is gone, if he's gone, if you were the

victorious candidate. thanks to each of you for kicking off this special. we have, as promised, a lot more. dnc chair will talk to us about this debate. i may raise some criticism as well. al sharpton is here to talk about what he learned from his interview, including this one that is making waves today. we'll break down the less sons of those moments that can define a candidate for years from past primary debates. some really fun archives if you are into that thing. and malcolm gladwell on how voters process choice overload. plus a few surprises from the greats. >> stand up to the mayor, whoever the mayor is. >> this is an exciting time to be in our business. >> isn't it, though? you're watching special coverage of the road to miami, the first presidential debate tonight on msnbc.

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♪ welcome back to our live special coverage on this sunday night. democrat candidates pe pairing to face many voters for the first time. these debates matter because americans really watch them. last cycle republicans were the party with a large field. 24 million people watched that first primary debate. and voters views tend to shift after these debates. think about jeb bush who was leading at this point in 2015

and dropped to the bottom. or rudy giuliani. in the last two gop primaries, all the candidates you see on the screen led the polls at one point in time. for democrats hillary clinton was leading at this point in 2007. so was joe leeberman in 2003. ask president giuliani or president liebermann. say polling shifts rapidly or even gets it wrong. another way to think about it is these were pre-debate polls. the polls after the debates tend to be shaped by how the candidates perform in these debates. >> joining me now is the man of the hour, tom perez, chairman of the democratic national committee, the organizer of these debates. thanks so much for being a part of this special. >> oh, it's great to be with you and all your viewers, ari. >> fantastic. we are talking to all sorts of different folks. what is your goal? what does success look like for the democratic party this week?

>> well, we're proud to be partnering with all of you at nbc, msnbc. our definition of success is straightforward. we want to make sure we have remarkable numbers of people watching our candidates, that every candidate gets a fair shake to communicate their message and vision. what i think the viewers are going to see is that there is a remarkable unity of values between our candidates. we all believe that everyone in this country should have access to quality, affordable health care. and we're 90% of the way there thanks to democrats. we will have a discussion how to get the next 90% to 100%. the other side wants to take us backwards. same thing about climate change. we know the science. we know you need to take action. we will have a discussion about how best to do that. for me, success is about the fact that we have a bumper crop of candidates and the american people are going to get to see this deep bench. and this is the first step in a

process that's going to enable us to take back our democracy. >> you mentioned the bench. i wonder how you feel leading the party at this moment. a lot of folks look at this and they're thinking on the democratic side who can beat trump. folks look at the ending. what about the beginning, the process? do you take any special pride in how diverse the field is with more women running than we've seen in any other presidential cycle in history? is that stuff important? or do you just look at what the conversation is going to be? >> oh, i'm absolutely proud of the fact that not only do we have the most women in the race, but the most racially diverse field of candidates in the history of our country. that's who we are as a democratic party. what people will see is they will see america and they will see the democratic party. and that is absolutely a point of pride and one of the things we did at the outset, because we were listening to people, ari,

is that we wanted to make sure we return power to the grass roots. we want voters to have the final say in who our standard bearer is. that's why early on last year we announced this unprecedented set of thresholds for making the debate stage. not only polling, but also a grass roots fund-raising threshold. for $1, you could have a say in who gets on the debate stage. and what's happened is it has unleashed a flurry of participation. over a million new participants in the democratic process. and whoever our candidate is, they need to be very proficient in raising money and connecting with the grass roots. our rules were fair. they were set forth early. we are aggressively neutral. we want -- >> aggressively neutral.

i like that. let me press you on that a little. we're partnering with you on the debates. the democratic party, which you are in charge of, as well as the members of the democratic national committee set these rules and you're saying they're fair. you have critics out there. you know that, right? >> when you are the referee, you are always going to have some folks who have questions, concerns, injections, and i understand that. >> i want to play one of them for you. i will say from observing this process, i'm familiar with what it's like, how much you are balancing and all these different candidates. but also candidates who are upset with you. you may be feeling a little bt like method man. you know method man, the rapper? he says forget a rap critic. they talk about it while i live it. i know you have been living it and living the fights. let me play your response. a governor who is outrunning ads basically at you. this is criticizing you and the party and the way he says you kicked him off the debate stage.

take a look. >> he's the only democrat for president who won a trump state. but you won't see steve bullock on the debate. >> they're staying steve bullock doesn't qualify for the debate. that's [ bleep ]. >> first of all, i am a big fan of governor bullock. i had the privilege of working with him when i was labor secretary. he's done a great job. we set forth these rules months ago, back in february. we told everyone involved here is how they apply. here is the polling. in governor bullock's race, there was a poll that wasn't really a poll. it was a survey, an open ended survey that said how many -- who do you think should be the democratic standard bearer in the upcoming election. and it gave you the suopportuni to put anybody in. the person that came in fourth in that poll, ari, was donald

trump. we communicated that to him in march. >> and i'll say, i'm not a polling expert, but that does sound a little fishy. >> well, it was. and, again, donald trump came in fourth. there were a bunch of other folks that aren't running that actually came in above where he was. and i mean no disrespect by that because i think the world of him. i have -- his message deserves to be heard. and that is why we worked very hard with various networks, including msnbc to make sure there are town hall meetings. i think in this cycle there has been unprecedented access to the voters. i commend msnbc and other networks that are allowing these formats. i commend our partners in the ecosystem. there is so many campaign forums being held. i saw one. i didn't personally participate. but there was one in las vegas a while ago with labor leaders to

talk about issues affecting working families and members of labor unions. so a lot of access out there. and, again, i have great respect for the governor. it would not surprise me in the least if he's on the debate stage in july because he's running a spirited campaign. he has a really important message to communicate. but, again, we made the rules back in february. and if you make rules and then you make exceptions because you like someone -- and i liked steve bullock a lot -- that's not a principaled way to do this. >> i think that's fair. you are laying out the transparency of the party and voters and everyone else decide the process. he won't be able to run dramatic attack ads against you if he makes it next time. i know how busy you are this week. thank you so much. chairman of the democratic national committee, for joining our special. >> it is great to be with you.

we'll see you down in miami. >> there you go. thank you, sir. up next, one of the biggest moments from past debates. what do they tell us about what you will see next week. we will speak to the clinton aid who played donald trump for hillary clinton's prep next. experience the style, craftsmanship and technology that have made the rx the leading luxury suv of all time. lease the 2019 rx 350 for $399/month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. i've always been amazed and still going for my best, even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin... i want that too. eliquis.

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every democratic candidate wants to win this week's debates, which typically involve a breakout moment. the first ever was in a democratic primary. it was 1956 featuring stevenson who ran several times. what is a breakout moment? it could range from a show of dominance to even giving your opponent a hand. >> turn that microphone off, please? >> i am paying for this mic micropho microphone. >> when i hear your new ideas, i'm reminded of that ad, where is the beef? >> i think the secretary is right. and that is that the american people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails. >> thank you. me too. me too. >> when we see those highlights, some may think remembering a quip doesn't seem that hard. the debates can be harder than

think look because no one knows which of those exchanges between these breakout moments and who will get the upper hand. >> it is three agencies of government when i get there that are gone. commerce, education and the -- what's the third one there? let's see. >> there are a lot of reasons not to elect me. >> if you want someone to grab a beer with, i may not be that guy. >> i don't think i'm that bad. >> you're likable enough, hillary. >> thank you. >> i don't trust president obama with our records. i know you gave him a big hug. and if you want to give him a big hug again, go right ahead. >> you ought to be ashamed of ourself for jumping on my wife. you are not worth being on the same platform as my wife. >> there is only three things he mentioned in the sentence, a noun, a verb and 9/11. there is something else. >> let's see. i can't. the third one i can't. sorry. oops. >> oops. rick perry came to be defined for that oops.

you don't want to be introduced to the nation as the oops guy or as the guy defending his story about seeing a ufo. >> held le democrlo democratic . i've been concerned about global warming is being neglected. >> did you see a ufo? >> i did. and the rest of the account -- i didn't -- it was unidentified flying object, okay? it is not identified. i saw something. >> i'm joined now by the former clint clinton aid who famously played donald trump in their secret debate. but we now have a clip. >> hillary clinton and donald j. trump. [ applause ] . >> a little bit of fun there. although, people remember him looming. so you were on to something.

how will you doing? >> i'm good. that's strange. it's sped up. it looks like a chaplain movie. >> we wanted to get to the heart of it. i don't need your slow walk before the moment, you know. so what do you think is important when the democrats take the stage, especially such a large one? >> well, you know, there are going to be a couple of things to look for. you want to look at what's in the paper wednesday morning, 12 hours before the debate even starts. it is 72 hours from now, enough to be excited and for you to have a live special. but the world can change and typically does in three days. what we're talking about today, whether it is about joe biden of pete buttigieg might not be what we're talking about on wednesday. yeah, it is a crowded stage, but there is an 11th person that doesn't have a podium. it's donald trump. donald trump is going to be an issue in this in a way he hasn't otherwise. i don't just mean that as being the incumbent and people saying they don't like the incumbent. the guy is going to be tweeting and speaking over the next three days. he might be tweeting right up to

the minute of the debate. he might be tweeting during the deba debate. >> as someone that has been in this rare back room, what advice would you give then? >> well, you know, it is tough. you want to prepare fundamentalry for two things. you want to be ready for everything. and you want your one thing to be ready. so on the one hand, you want to make sure someone knows what the price of gas is or what a gallon of milk is or how much a stamp is. you worry about someone knowing basic stuff. but what you really want is you want your candidate to be able to take the time they have to deliver the message that they do every single day. if a candidate says something on the stump tomorrow, different than what they're saying wednesday night, then that's a little bit of a problem. you want to deliver your message at a debate. you don't want to create your message. and time is of the essence. you and i are having a conversation right now that is longer than probably most of the candidates will be able to

speak. and that puts a lot of pressure on. and another dynamic of the large field that i think isn't really being given enough attention is loyalty is going to be very thin this year in the sense that there is such a priority to get rid of donald trump that if someone shows any weakness, any kind of lapse or someone has a great moment, people aren't going to go down with the ship of their original candidate. they're going to move. >> right. >> they're going to -- >> you're talking about the political environment around those orbits. where when you guys were prepping the primaries, he did very well, better than expected. but you really had a clear sense of who was movable where the lines were. >> yes. >> you also mentioned trump. let me show you his new comments because he knees himself above all else as a pundit and analyst. here he was in all that. take a look. >> they would say she was a lousy candidate. i actually think that hillary clinton was a great candidate.

she was very smart. she was very tough. she was ruthless and vicious. >> you'd rather run against her again? >> you spent a lot of time talking about her. >> no, no. i would actually rather run against biden. >> why? >> sleepy joe. she was not sleepy. >> would you advise these candidates to get into any of that stuff over this week? >> well, you know, it is interesting because you do have this dynamic where people are putting that priority, the attribute of being able to go toe to toe ahead of anything else. they look at joe biden as the front runner and thinking that a lot of his support is because people are preceding him. so i disagreed listening to your earlier segment because someone can be negative and not be negative at joe bind. for instance, if you want people

to think you can go toe to toe with donald trump. you don't have to look forward and look down the row and say, joe, i don't think you are any good. you can talk to camera and say, look, donald, if you are listening, i'm a governor. i'm going to do this. i'm going to do that. you better hope you don't face me. those kind of moments will be effective. they don't come at any other democrats expense. that will be the problem, is, you know, people are so -- it is a primary. it is a competition. it is a contest. people are supposed to try to beat each other. but there is such a zero tolerance for democrat on democrat criticism that it's hard to see what will happen. so it is a safe zone to go after trump. and it is a way of distinguishing yourself from biden. the last thing i will tell you is the other audience is your donor base. this is june 26th and 27th. june 30th is the end of the second quarter. >> right. >> and especially now because of the way the dnc, the way you were talking to chairman perez,

fund-raising is so important, you could have a great 30 second line that frankly the media doesn't even notice, that none of us notice, but that you take and put into a mailer, into an e-mail that you send to your supporters who love it and you crank out $300,000 in one night. >> right. and the people understand what is happening on that stage feels bigger than making the same quip or the same words in some other mace on the campaign trail. >> before i let you go, i did want to ask you, did you think donald trump ultimately was a good debater? >> no, he sucked. she kicked his ass in certainly the first and the third. the second one was just ugly because the topic, it was two days after access hollywood and the hacking. no. he's terrible because he had never done it. he had never at that point ever debated anyone one-on-one. he had never spoken at a debate more than 23 minutes. that was a debate where it was 90 minutes. he spoke for 40. he could show you. a lot of people, i don't know

about you, but when i was in college i waited until the last minute. you have 20 candidates right now. you have half of them looking at your show going, hell, i need to hit the books. >> time to get to work. >> donald trump did not spend enough time. >> getting ready. to your point, which goes to the echo of is he going to be -- >> not just debating, getting ready to be president. >> that's the thing that hangs over all of this, which we cover every night on the beat. but they will be going up against an incumbent president that has had more experience in terms of why they need to show their voters why they would be the one to do it. thank you for joining us. up next, we'll show you who is standing out as the debate comes. kamala harris making quite the entrance with her own drum line in south carolina. you are watching our msnbc special, the road to miami. ♪

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♪ senator kamala harris making a big entry this week in south carolina. i'm joined by the democratic strategist and fellow and

republican strategist and analyst here. what do you think of what we saw in south carolina and kamala's big entry? >> she went to hbcu. so people who know hbcu, went to hbcu certainly felt the energy and the excitement by her bringing that drum line. i thought it was perfect. i thought the tone was right on the mark. >> take a listen to bernie hitting joe biden. we were just talking about how you are going to this debate. it is not that it's gotten unduly ugly. but we're seeing democrats now going at the perceived front runners and drawing distinctions. here we go. >> i hope to be the effort against the war in iraq. joe's position was different. i voted against disastrous trade agreements. joe's position was different. so i think what a campaign is about is to talk about our

record and our vision for the future. >> does that work? >> it seems really dated. it seems like i heard this, i don't know, about four years ago. and that's part of what i think bernie sanders is facing right now and why elizabeth warren warrener -- excuse me. >> warren. >> is starting to take over in the polls, is because bernie is just using the same message sand there is a sense of entitlement he says he has to it. he says he was the first out with these messages, but he's not shown what he's going to do wit. he's talking a lot and coming off as that angry man. it's not playing well now. we're seeing that in the polls. >> yeah. i think that's true. i think that bernie's time has passed. and i appreciate, though, four years ago what he did for the democratic message and the democratic policy priorities. he pushed a progressive agenda in a way that i don't believe ever would have happened if he had not run. but i don't know he's the one to carry it over the threshold. >> there is at least ten others

out there that could right now with a fresh and kind of different take on where to take the party. >> and that becomes the question, right? is this going to be a primary about bold ideas and a vision for the future and really about the progressive energy and base and ground swell of the party that bernie, that and elizabeth warren and championing. or will they retreat into some sensibility of we need to go back to yesterday because we need to retreat and regress into what used to be and play it safe. i personally think the democrats will lose if they play it safe. i think it matters we are in a presence right now where the progressive values are at the forefront of the conversation about politics. we can't go back. and, so, i just hope that on the debate stage that the candidates are able to kind of drive that message home so the public can see forward versus backwards. >> we talked a bit about the debates and trump tonight. we haven't talked about the obama legacy.

this was a high watermark for this party. are you going to see younger democrats on the stage try to harken back to that in some way. i am the next obama, an obama reboot. does that open the door for joe biden test, i think, one of thet questions in politics, and i say that wryly, because i think it's unlikely to work, which is, is barack obama a transferrable political entity? if he is, maybe you can run on it. if he's not, it's like you worked for him, a lot of people worked for him, people knocked on doors for him, that doesn't mean you're obama. >> i think in the segment before you had a lead-in with joe biden saying everything rudy giuliani says is 9/11. i think joe biden is going to come out with noun, verb, and i was barack obama's vice president, and saying it and saying it and saying it, because that is really the closest thing he has as a forward looking message. >> yeah, so you know what's interesting about this is that i don't know that barack obama

could really play in this particular presidential field in terms of the issues, the energy, the dynamic of what's happening in america right now. >> you think he'd be less likely to break out one of 20 in this moment? >> i think hope and change, when we are literally facing a catastrophe, a dangerous villain in the white house? i don't know that hope and change permeates through where we are right now. >> bipartisanship. >> we are polarized and polarize the through the obama area because white supremacists retreated. i don't think joe biden saying, i worked for this guy that there's a whole lot else. >> whether people want something really new and strong. thanks to both of you. still ahead some of the great archive footage. how they used to debate. next hour, i'll talk to one of the top debate experts in the country about how candidates try to make the splash and the risks

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what do we do next? our second hour's going to be a little different in this "road to miami" special.

reverend al sharpton is here. he just spoke with several of the top 2020 contenders in this field. he's been on a debate stage himself. cecile richards, former head of planned parenthood, and mike murphy, presidential campaign veteran. malcolm glad well, he's going to talk about what happens to your mind when you have 20 choices like 20 candidates recess he's author of "the tipping point." we think he may widen our perspective of the science of what's happening when we look at this debate stage next ahead in the next hour, "the road to miami."

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simple. easy. awesome. click, call or visit a store today. you're looking at it. we are on "the road to miami." the first democratic primary debate of the 2020 election this week. ari melber coming to you live here. next hour we have as promised special new stuff. including going deep with experts that you might not see in a typical newscast. the man barack obama and bill clinton relied on for their debate prep, their chief debate roach, robert barnett. he's prepped ten presidential candidates of the democratic party. we've set aside time to go over the strategy and the archives. then a