cool, protected. coppertone sport clear. proven to protect. good to be with you this morning. it is 4:00 a.m. in the east, 1:00 out west. at msnbc world headquarters in new york. >> i'm geoff bennett at nbc news in washington. you're watching special coverage of round two of the first presidential debate in the 2020 season. who won? who lost? and which moments were the most memorab memorable. >> i do not praise racists. that is not true. >> do you agree today -- do you agree today, that you were wrong to oppose bussing in america? >> because i couldn't get it done. my community is in anguish right now.

>> we can transform this country. >> we can't be a forward-looking party if we look to the past for our leadership. >> trump. >> president trump and the republicans. >> to beat trump. >> who can beat donald trump. was it a warning? what the president said during a meeting with vladimir putin when the topic of russia's election interference came up again. we begin with day two of the first democratic debate. the remaining ten candidates squaring off in miami. >> president trump drawing fire early and often from the candidates and the middle class. the attacks shifted to those on stage. and early in the second hour, came this exchange between camera harris and front-runner joe biden. >> we're going to get to you. >> i would like to speak. on the issue of race. i do not believe you are a racist. and i agree with you when you

commit yourself to the importance of finding common ground. but i also believe -- and it is personal. i was actually -- it was hurtful, to hear you talk about the reputations of two united states senators who built their reputations and career on segregation of race in this country. and it was not only that but you also worked with them to oppose bussing. you know, there was a little girl in california, who was part of the second class to integrate her public schools. and she was bussed to school every day. and that little girl was me. >> you mischaracterized my position across the board. i did not praise racists. i was a public defender. i did not become a prosecutor. everything i've done in my career, i ran because of civil

rights. i continue to think we have to make fundamental changes in civil rights. >> do you agree today that you were wrong to oppose bussing in america then? >> i did not oppose bussing in america. what i opposed was bussing ordered by the department of education. that's what i opposed. >> i was part of the second class to integrate berkeley public schools. >> because your city council made that decision. that was a local decision. >> that's when the federal government must step in. we have the voting rights act and the civil rights act. that's why we need to pass the equality act. we need to pass the e.r.a. because there are moments in history where states fail to preserve the civil rights of all people. >> and during the debate, the harris campaign posted on twitter this picture of kamla harris as a young girl. among the first hour highlights and the exchange of generational

divide among candidates. >> i was 6 years old when a presidential candidate came to the california democratic convention and said it's time to pass the torch to a new generations of americans. that candidate was joe biden. joe biden was right when he said it was time to pass the torch to a new generation of americans 32 years ago. he is right today. if we're going to solve the issues, pass the torch. >> who has the guts to take on wall street? >> america doesn't want to witness a food fight. they want to know how we'll put food an their table. >> i want to look back on these years and say my generation delivered climate solutions, racial equality and an end to an endless war. help me deliver that to a new washington before it's too late. >> and the topic of immigration brought out differences and similarities among those on

stage. on the same day congress sent to trump a package with more than $4 million to address the humanitarian crisis at the border. every candidate extended health care coverage to undocumented immigrants. >> our country is healthier when everybody is healthier. there's undocumented immigrants in my community who pay. they pay sales taxes. they pay property taxes directly or indirectly. this is not about a handout. this is abinsurance program. >> if you told me that this country would sanction federal agents to take children from the arms of their parents, put them in cages, actually put them up for adoption -- in colorado, we call that kidnapping. >> you take a lot of people and put them in a detention center and inflict trauma on them,

that's child abuse. that's a crime. if the government does it, that doesn't make it less of a crime. these are state-sponsored crimes. >> and as on the first debate night, the candidates were divided on whether to allow private health insurance. >> no deductibles, no out-of-pocket expenses. they will pay more in taxes but less in health care for what they get. >> the plan that senator sanders and i support in medicare for all, is a single-payer. >> everybody who says medicare for all. every person who politics who allows that phrase to escape their lips, has a responsibility to explain how you're supposed to get from here to there. >> the quickest, fastest way to do it is to build on obamacare to make sure that everyone does have an option. everyone they have private insurance, employer insurance,

or no insurance. >> people don't like their private insurance companies. they like doctors and hospitals. people can go to any doctor they want, any hospital they want. >> as you just saw, the candidates hit a wide range of issues last night. for more, let's go to miami. you see vaughn hillyard standing by there, doing early duty. vaughn, good to see you. what were the differences between night one and night two of this debate? >> the first several minutes of your opener set up night two. that was a lot of substance over the two hours. outside of elizabeth warren, you had the other top-tier candidates in this race, in terms of polling numbers. kamla harris, bernie sanders, joe biden, going toe-to-toe with one another. what extent would they be able to present to the american public their case and build that

out to something more context chulize i contextulized. what you saw was a deep dive into issues over bussing, over into health care, over into education. eventually between these different candidates. you saw contrast painted between them. for instance, between joe biden and kamla harris. when it comes to the issue of immigration. he said one has to look at the record under the obama administration. and when joe biden was vice president, there was 3 million deportations. she said it's important when you're looking at having the conversation about the current race, you have to look at it under the context of the obama administration, that allowed local law enforcement to deport undocumented individuals. it's something that she said she is not supportive of.

>> vaughn, do you think she pulled away from the pack last night? there are huge risks in a candidate punching the front-runner. in this case, it was harris attacking, to use the phrase, joe biden. but it seemed to have worked for her. >> i think her closing line says it all. in her closing line yesterday, she said democrats need to find a candidate who can prosecute the case against donald trump. what she did was try to prosecute the gaze on herself from the other democrats on the stage. suggesting it was time for a new generation. when it came to joe biden, she said that joe biden, she said, had, in her words, had praised two segregationists. joe biden pushed back on that assertion. but kamla harris said at this moment in time, having somebody who could better understand what the next generation, in terms of

racial justice, is the type of candidate we need to look for. >> vaughn hillyard thanks for your time. we want to bring in lynn sweet, washington bureau chief with "chicago sun times." >> and daniel lippman, co-author of "the political playbook." kamla harris made the point in much the same way she prosecuted the case against joe biden, that she's best equipped to prosecute the case against donald trump. do you think it worked for her? >> i do. there was a reason she was a winner out of last night's debate. it was because she had the ability to do it all. from style, to substance, to punching and being aggressive without looking like she was overly aggressive. she was on-point.

the sub text of this debate is, who can be trumped because the difference on policies is razor thin when you get down to it. the big, big thing that harris accomplished for herself, was to make the public see how you could do it. how you could be on the stage and how it looks when somebody stands up to somebody. and you kind of had that mix of moxie and moves that put the point across that you just made that she can prosecute because you just can't say you can do it. you have to show you can do it. that's what harris did last night. >> given that, daniel, to you, don't you think joe biden would have been more prepared, leading ep to th up to this debate, because he's gotten criticism from the sag

ga segregationists debates. >> when he was running for vice president in 2008 and 2012. but last night was not one of his finest moments. he kept saying, my time is up. or that's time. that's not a strong case to make. kamla harris looked like she was much more energetic. she looked like she would be the real deal in doing up against trump. and she could defeat him in the debates, which is important. joe biden, one could imagine trump walking all over him and appearing the stronger candidate against a joe biden. so, the next couple debates will be crucial because biden has to get back some of the momentum that he lost last night. >> given that, lynn, how do we do that? where does biden take it from here? he's been leading in the polls.

how does he stay in the polls after this? how does kamla harris run with this and keep that fire? >> i'm going to run with harris. right now, what she does is more obvious than what biden does. she goes out and keeps telling her story and keeps doing the miniversion. we saw how she could say in one or two sentences, what she's about, and her plans. showing humor and personality, on it. because she's new, the optics are, she's an interesting person to hear from. what she just does is get out and about. i bet her fund-raising will jump. and there will be interest in her now. interestingly, today in chicago, joe biden is going to be in a rainbow push event. that's the organization of reverend jesse jackson. coming off a night where bussing and segregationist senators were the headlines, biden is going to an annual meeting of one of a

major civil rights groups today. so, we'll know in a few hours what he does to come back, what he may say, what he may be asked. i don't know how he could put this behind him in any way but some -- it doesn't maybe need a whole speech. but he needs to explain better why you work with people you don't agree with. and that's where he stumbled last night. >> that's a great point. i think the big difference between last night's debate -- wednesday night's debate and thursday night's debate, is the degree the candidates took on donald trump directly. let's look at that from last night's debate. >> the american people understand that trump is a phony. trump is a pathological liar and a racist and he lied to the american people during his campaign. >> one of the worst things about president trump that he's done to this country, is he's torn

apart the moral fabbic of who we are. >> what is the greatest threat to the united states? it's donald trump. >> there has been this conversation ongoing from the very start of the 2020 race. do democratic primary voters care about the candidate with the plan or the candidate who can beat donald trump? based on what we have seen so far, with the trump-sized cav t caveat, it's early in this process. who do you think is best equipped to take this fight on the democratic side directly to donald trump? >> we can get rid of the people on the wings of the lineup on night one and night two of the debate. it showed they were there for a reason. i am not ready to say who can best do it on these two nights. elizabeth warren and kamla harris did so well. bernie sanders' gift is able to say in a pithy, understandable way what he is about. but the most important point

coming into focus is none of these plans matter for what all these candidates care about. and there's not that major of a divide between them. but you don't have a plan unless you have a president. that is, i think, where the conversation is going to go to. and where we'll see in subsequent debates. it's only a conversation amongst yourselves, if you don't go showing people how you can beat trump. when you see what former governor hickenlooper side, the colorado governor. one of the things that emerged from this debate and what he says in interviews is stop talking about socialism. not that they are, but republicans are blaming them. he thinks that's bad and they need to think about it. that's what will evolve in the conversation more about, i can beat trump because -- and then, fill in that blank. we don't know quite that answer yet. but we saw strong performances

over two nights from people that could be alternatives to biden. the former vice president now has to think about that this front-runner, he may be a front-runner, but it may be saying not firm earth. >> as you said, the wings of the lineup, who will remain for the future debates. we'll see those names and faces shaved off at this time. we'll check back in with you in a little bit. >> thank you. now, to breaking news from japan. president trump sat down with vladimir putin a few hours ago. they met in the g20 summit in o sack wa. putin was asked if he would interfere in elections. listen and watch closely.

>> nbc's hans nichols joins us from osaka. that was our producer shouting that question to president trump. but walk us through what happened here. >> tone matters in matters like this, jeff. and we saw him being the master in speaking. he expected and was expecting whether or not he would tell putin not to meddle in the u.s. presidential elections. the president took to the questions. don't meddle, mr. president. i want you to watch this again and pay close attention to the body language. and you tell me if both men think this is a serious challenge. >> it's a great honor to be with president bhutan. his representatives, my representatives, we have many things to discuss, including trade and include iing some

disarmament, a little protectionism, perhaps. a lot of positive things coming out of the relationship. vat mere, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> don't meddle in the election. >> jeff, i'm glad this is why we're in tv and not print. if you just look at the quote of what the president says, it seems as though he is almost admonishing president putin. but when you watch that in its entirety, it is clear the president is not taking this seriously. he seems to be laughing. there's a hint of sarcasm and facetiousness. just to give you a sense of it, there's a dispute whether the president ended that, by saying don't meddle in elections, please, or president. that's the level of parsing we're getting to.

you can't parse the smile on president trump's face. >> while we have you, the president created headlines there, with comments he made about the debate. there was a surprise comment about that, too. what can you tell us about that? >> he is saying there's a rumor out there. the president is claiming it's out there that the democrats want to change their name to the socialists. he wanted to weigh in on the debate. he was sitting there beside the brazilian president and said, what the democrats want to do is happening in venezuela. called the democrats socialists. he wasn't impressed. he is weighing in on what's happening on that other party. and this will be a feature of the remaining months of his presidency, until the re-election, or whether or not he is defeated. he will try to determine who the nominee is on the democratic party. and he will try to box them into positions as they have their

primaries on the other side of their caucuses. it's the feature of the presidency and will stay here for at least the end of the president's first term. and we'll see how much longer after that. jeff? >> hans nichols, reporting from osaka with great insights. thank you for your time this morning. still to come, fact-checking the debate. where did the candidates stray from the truth? that's next. and our post-debate coverage continues at 6:00, with a special edition of "morning joe" live from miami.

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welcome back to special coverage of round two of the democratic debate. time to fact-check some moments from last night, including this claim from former vice president joe biden, who often touted what the obama administration accomplished. let's listen. >> our administration, we built the largest wind farm in the world, the largest solar energy facility in the world. >> joining us now is allen smith, political reporter with nbc news. all right, allen. let's get to it. remind us of the truth here. did the obama administration build the biggest wind farm in the world? >> when this wind farm was built, it was the biggest in the world and it was built during obama's administration, like former vice president biden said. but there is actually a wind farm in china that is a little bit significantly larger than this one. it's not the largest wind farm in the world. but it is the largest in the united states. >> let's go to a topic about

health care. michael bennet, talking about his opposition to the medicare for all proposal from bernie sanders. >> bernie is an honest person. he's siaid over and over again, like others in this legislation, that this would ban, making illegal, all insurance, except for cosmetic. everything else is banned under the medicare for all proposal. >> now, i could have sworn i heard bernie sanders say that same thing. was senator bennett right? >> senator bennett is 100% right. and senator sanders would say the same thing if he was asked. the point of medicare for all, the plan that senator sanders specifically backs is that private insurance wouldn't be necessary because his plan is set up to cover everything, single medical item you would have under private insurance. he wants to eliminate private

insurance entirely. that's what senator bennett was sticking him with. >> moving forward and talking about president trump, different from day one to day two. he was mentioned early and often last night. let's listen to kamla harris criticizing the trump administration for focusing on job numbers when touting the economy. let's take a listen. >> people in america are working. they're working two and three jobs. when we talk about jobs, let's be clear. in our america, no one should have to work more than one job to have a roof over their head and food on their table. >> all right. yep. one job but two or three. put those remarks into context here. >> well, about 5% to 6% of americans work two jobs. but senator harris' remarks, saying there should be no americans working two job. there's nothing factually incorrect about that. it's a great campaign line and something that harris wants to push forward with. >> we remember when she brought

that out and saying when the other candidates are going here. we don't want a food fight, americans want food on the table, driving that point home. >> let's talk about the amount of time that each candidate spoke last night. joe biden got the most time with almost 14 minutes. followed by senator harris. you can see the number there's. senator sanders and mayor pete. and those who spoke less than ten minutes, senator bennett, gillibrand, hickenlooper and maryann williamson. when she spoke it was recommend rabb rememberable. and you see swalwell and yang at the bottom there. >> none of this was surprising. vice president biden, as the front-runner, you expected he would get the most speaking time. he would have the most questions addressed to him. and there's candidates on the stage that want to take aim at him, tussle with him and see if they can get a rise out of him. it will result in him having more talking time.

andrew yang, he wasn't asked many questions. maryann williamson wasn't asked many questions. gillibrand wasn't asked many questions. and they weren't jumping into the fray much and starting arguments or debates with other candidates, which would increase their speaking time. the one that's interesting to me is buttigieg. he's right in the middle. for him to have had a really good night, he would want to see the numbers where kamla harris is. if he were to have a good night, he would be speaking more, probably in the area that senator harris was in. >> tracking the speaking time used, we are keeping track of the world clouds, the most was trump. candidates mentioned him 36 times. that was followed by health care. the word taxes, climate change and the economy. socialism or socialist was mentioned four times. but those words not by senator

sanders. what's your take on that? >> compared to last night's debate, trump was referenced way more. notably so. they wanted to focus on things that their own policies. and mentions to him and his administration were not often by name. tonight, you saw the candidates like biden and sanders and others, coming out guns blazing. there was a moment in the show when senator sanders was calling trump a pathological liar. a lot of the front-runners were on tonight. the first 30 minutes were almost the candidates debating health care and the differences between them. that leads to the mentions of socialism. you have hickenlooper and senator bennett, who wanted to draw contrast with senator sanders. they were using the word

socialist to describe health care policies or what they didn't want the democratic party being branded as. senator sanders, he's not dropping mentions of socialism. he's trying to have his policies speak for themselves. and he doesn't really feel the need to be dropping that moniker. >> allen smith, thanks for your time this morning. one of the top democrats decided not to make an appearance in the so-called spin room. that's raising questions for some. we'll explain, coming up next. gg for your phone. cool! wait til you check out the back! that's a lot of groceries. look at my strong man! don't patronize me... the new buick envision is full of surprises. current eligible gm owners get up to 16 percent below msrp on most of these 2019 buick models. that's just over 7 thousand on this envision premium.

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one of the most memorable nights came when kamla harris challenged joe biden about a vote in the '70s. >> did kamla harris mischaracterize her position? >> on which of the subjects? >> on the bussing question in particular. >> yes, she did. >> how, sir? >> i don't think she intended to. i supported bussing. >> and senator harris decided why she decided to speak up. >> we have to be honest about what happened. we have to be honest. i said what it meant. i have a great deal of respect

for joe biden. i think it's really important for us to remember our nation's history on these issues. it's not history from a really long time ago. it directly impacted me. and so, when we talk about these issues, we can't talk about it with nostalgia only. like, oh, those days. those days have an impact on today. and that's what i felt needed to be said. that's why i said it. >> one of the debates' other big moments came up when eric swalwell brought up the age difference of the democratic candidates. in the spin room, bernie sanders criticized that line of thinking, calling it ageism. >> if i were to say to a younger person, you know, you're not qualified because you're only 35 or 36 or something like that, you know, that's not right. i don't think so.

judge people on the totality of who they are, what their ideas are, what their experience is, what their record is. >> joining us now, with more from inside the spin room is nbc correspondent vaughn hillyard and brewster. what was it like in that room last night, vaughn? >> to give you an idea of what the spin room looks like, as soon as the debate is over, the candidates start rolling in. you have press corps from all over the country, all over the world, that have descended on there. you have the cameras on and the microphones opened up. and the conversations are going towards the candidates and giving them a second wind and an opportunity to explain what they were say organize respond to others. you know, run into the likes of michael bennet. i asked him the question, that generational question that eric swalwell had set up. ho he said he believed it was

time to pass the torch down to a generation like his. and kamla harris, obviously, her responses throughout the evening at the debate, really took on, eventually, as she was setting up or prosecuting the case, against a couple of her democratic opponents, particularly joe biden. that resonated into the spin room where she not only talked to other reporters, talked to msnbc. i asked to her and asked why did you decide to take this case on against joe biden there on this night? that's when she said, it was time. this is the time now. she is running in this race. she was using this as her opportunity to do just that and set herself apart from the rest of this field. >> back to that issue of age. generational change, as we heard from swalwell, the pass the torch comment to joe biden. but bernie sanders spoke to you about it in the spin room. what was his take as the oldest

candidate in the raice? >> he called it ageism, against minorities, against women, and the lgbt community. he said, yes, a new generation is needed. but it's a new generation of ideas and vision. he wants us to focus on his poli policies. and policies like medicare for all, got a lot of attention on the stage last night. but that's being embraced by many of the democratic candidates in this field. he wants people to focus on climate change, an issue in 2015, he was called too radical to say it was one of the top threats against the country. but now, many of the candidates have their own climate change proposals and we talk about the green, new deal. watch how the candidates embrace ideas like the green, new deal. he wants to say to voters, don't discount me because of my age. listen to my ideas that are being adopted by many of the younger candidates. >> yeah. we'll talk about the spin room, we should explain why this exists is so that candidates can come back after the debate and

emphasize points they did or weren't able to make on the stage. vaughn, to you, one of the candidates that did not do that was mayor pete. mayor pete buttigieg. let's listen to what his communications adviser had to say about why he was not there. and we'll ask you more on the other side. >> is mayor pete coming out tonight? >> no, he's not. >> why not? >> he won the debate and had a direct conversation with the american people, not thinking about the next four years but the next 50 years. and he's the only person that can bring about the profound change our nation need. >> she says he won the debate. that's spin. what accounts for his absence there, do you think? >> that's the ultimate spin in the spin room there, geoff. that's the conversation that makes place. you make a tactical decision if you come out. if it weren't for garrett haake to find him on the debate stage afterwards, he also, along with pete buttigieg, did not come to

the spin room. it is an opportunity for kamla harris. earlier in the evening, kamla harris, for instance, there was a question posed of who in the room supported or would replace their own insurance, their own private insurance, for a government-run program. and kamla harris, along with bernie sanders rose their hand, which caught people offguard because she had offered different positions on that specific question in the past. and so, i was able to ask her a clarifying question afterwards, in which she told me, she goes, she still believed to note that people should be able to buy private supplemental insurance. that gives you an opportunity like kamla harris did, to clarify other positions she had taken during that debate. >> thanks for taking us inside the spin room there. going to check back in at the top of the hour. is answering questions in spanish connecting with or patronizing latino voters? raul reyes, weighs in next. in t

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presidential contenders took to the stage last night to dispute policies. the contenders agreed on one key issue heading in on 2020, the immigration debate and how they would reverse president trump's policy. take a listen. >> i will immediately, by executive action, reinstate daca status and daca protection to those young people. >> we have to make sure that i.c.e. is completely reformed. and they begin looking at their job in a humanitarian way. >> on day one, we take out our executive order pen and we rescind everything on this issue that trump has done. >> there's nothing that we cannot do in the courts and i will not do as president to reverse that and make sure that families always belong together. >> i'm the guy that got a bipartisan agreement at the end of the campaign, at the very end of our term, to spend $740 million to deal with the

problem. we all talk about these things. i did it. >> and joining us now is attorney and nbcnews.com contributor, raul reyes. thanks for joining us this morning. >> good morning. >> let's start with the former v.p., joe biden. you hear his comments about immigration and what he accomplished while he was v.p. he said he had $740 million passed as v.p. is that a compelling argument for voters politically, do you think? >> i'm not sure it's a particularly compelling argument for voters right now. people are concerned about the crisis at our southern border. a more effective talking point would have been to say, what would he do with these americans that are arriving to the overcrowded detention centers. and what would he do? what would be his path going forward for the undocumented people here? that's the two questions that have hung over this administration, as well as the last one. >> yeah. that's why you have donald trump

pointing to the past administration, blaming it for the crisis we see now. now, you have former vice president biden who is defending president obama's policy that departed millions. senator harris called him out on that. let's listen to it. >> an individual is living in the united states of america without documents. that's his only offense. should that person be departed? >> no. >> depending if they committed a major crime. they should be deported. the president -- president obama did a heck of a job. to compare him to what this guy is doing is absolutely, i find close to immoral. >> i disagreed with my president because the policy was to allow deportation of people who, by i.c.e.'s own definition, were noncriminals. i issued a directive to the sheriffs of my state they did not have to comply. >> so, biden didn't say he would focus on immigrants with

criminal records. he did say that. >> my take was they were talking about two different parts of the obama administration. kamla harris was talking about his first term, in which he was, you know, he did become known for his record numbers of deportations. and he earned the tag deporter in chief. in his second term, this is what joe biden was referencing, that the people that i.c.e. would go after were criminals and gang ties and recent arrivals. if you were in the country and not one of those three categories, you were left alone. there were not enforcement actions being taken against you. they're talking about two different terms in the administration. in this dispute, however, kamla harris may have the edge. latinos know that obama was known as the deporter in chief.

>> let's talk about something that happened in both nights of the debate. this was candidates using part of their time to answer questions in spanish. let's take a look. >> now, this was a debate, as we know, was simulcast on telecommutelemund telemundo. but the approach did get a hashtag on social media, it was #hispandering. >> i give them points to try to make a connection with latino voters. that type of approach, to think you can speak spanish and win a

segment or a group of latinos is very old-school. that was done back in my parents' generation. people were happy to be acknowledged in some basic way. the latino voters are more sophisticated and they care about perspective and issues. one thing that did jump out to me about the use of spanish across both nights. the reaction it generated here in the u.s., it was mocked and people used #hispandering. but in latin america, the use of spanish was viewed very positively. there, it was seen as a sign of respect, a sign of conclusion and a sign that latinos were welcome in the party. we have different perspectives when we look at u.s. latinos and latin america. >> raul reyes, thanks for your time. one of the signature moments of the debate. the exchange between kamla harris and joe biden. reaction from a democrat in a key early primary state. state.

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last night's debate reflected the partisan divide between health care and immigration. >> president trump jumping on the moment on twitter saying, quote, that's the end of that race. joining us now is republican strategist, brian darling, founder and president of liberty government affairs and anton seewright. did the democrats give president trump an easy opening with this position? >> that's an issue that president trump wants to talk about. he wants to talk about immigration. he wants to talk about this issue. obviously, when you look at the daca issue that puts more better for the democrats. you look at the issue of health care for illegal immigrants, that cuts better for republicans. the big picture was, republicans like me, were watching this

debate to see if the democrats would focus more in attacking donald trump or focus more on attacking the front runner joe biden. it looks like they split time between both. >> i want to ask you about that, anton. joe biden polling very high. kamla harris was out of the gate on fire. she continued that flame last night, too. your take on that and how she pounced on it. >> she had a great right. and no one could refute that. she behaved like a prosecutor and she made every response she received a closing argument. kudos to her for finding her groove last night. but also, there was a different line of pressure for the vice president than it was for every other candidate on that stage, simply because he came into this debate. and i think he left as the front-runner. he didn't have to be so -- he didn't have to be so aggressive in terms of punching back at the

people who punched up towards him. and i think that's so important for context. the debates for a moment, they do not find a race. we'll see the impact -- the short-term impact. but let's not forget, this will not have long-term impact on the race as a whole. >> let's talk about that antjuan. one of the reasons that joe biden is doing well in south carolina is his support among african-americans there. did kamla harris, with her direct attacks on joe biden, do you think she pierced that bubble of support that joe biden has there? >> i think the vice president's support among african-american voters, seasoned african-american voters, i did not say old, is strong and solid. i think that kamla harris grabbed the attention of some who may not have been paying attention just yet. we're early in this process.

and also remember, over 40% of the people are not really paying attention. and they're not on twitter and on social media or in the bubble as we are. i think black people are not monolithic. the vice president will enjoy some favorability and flavorability among african-american voters. but i think kamla harris did herself a true favor in last night's debate, making the case for why she can stay on the stage with donald trump and debate with him toe-to-toe and be a valuable candidate. i don't want people to forget there's a lot of ball left to be played, a lot of time left on the clock. >> and donald trump will be setting his sights on kamla harris as his target. thank you to both of you. antjuan seawright, john darling. how the end of the first debate could mean the end of the road for a few of the candidates. candidates if you have medicare, listen up.

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