. that will do it for me this hour. thanks so much for watching. i'll see you again right here tomorrow morning at 6:00 a.m. eastern. now it's time for "up" with david gura. ♪ this is "up," i'm david gura and president trump just wrapped up his visit to japan for the g20 with a 75-minute long news

conference. he talked about trade, the election and a potential meeting with jim jong-un on the dmz. >> might happen tomorrow. we won't call it a summit. we'll call it a handshake. >> the president is sticking up for joe biden. senator kamala harris, he says, is getting too much credit for her exchange with the former vice president. >> i want to be clear about my record and position on racial justice including bussing. i never, never, never ever opposed voluntary bussing. >> the supreme court decided that for now the census will not include this question, is this person a citizen of the united states? president trump is not happy about that. >> they're not allowed to ask whether or not somebody is a citizen of the united states? how horrible and ridiculous is that? >> it is saturday, june 29th. bill maher thinks he figured out

joe biden's worst moment. >> twhenhey went around and ask what will be your first act as president? joe biden said to defeat donald trump. "up" with me, elliott williams, tim o'brien and we begin in seoul where president trump has been having dinner with the president of south korea. just a few hours ago president trump suggested that he might meet the leader of north korea as well. i would meet him at the border/dmz, the president tweeted, just to shake his hand and say hello. reporters asked him about that proposal at the g20 at a news

conference. >> if you do meet kim jong-un at the dmz tomorrow, would you step across the border into north korea? >> sure i would. i would. i would feel very comfortable doing that. i would have no problem. >> the u.s. presidents who have visited the dmz, president trump was scheduled to on a previous trip, the white house canceled that trip. before that news conference at the g20, president trump had a meeting with china's president, xi jinping, as the trade war continues. the two leaders agreed to return to the negotiating table. president trump met with his russian counterpart, president putin, where one of my colleagues asked about the principle conclusions in special counsel robert mueller's report. >> mr. president, will you tell russia not to meddle in the election? >> don't meddle in the election. >> i'll read a line from tim o'brien's latest piece about president trump's approach to policy and the consequences of that approach.

expect trump's cart wheeling to continue. it's who he is. the only real difference between what he's doing now and what he was doing in his businesses decades ago is who it affects. long ago his bungling harmed his invest and employees and some communities in which he operated it was troubling but the damage was limited. now trump inhabits the presidency and the radius of wreckage is global. what did you observe over the last two days? this was a president not wholly focussed on the matter at hand, not focused on what was going on at the g20 summit in osaka. as one of my colleagues pointed out, he was wrestling with the fact that the focus here in the u.s. was not on president trump. >> it's a great example of the fact that he doesn't think strategically, he thinks cinematically. most of the time he's wondering about whether or not he's center stage, how things will play in the media what kind of backdrops he gets for his own appearances.

that's a pretty good way to think if you're a presidential candidate and campaigning, or if you're a reality tv star. it's not a great way to think if you're the president of the united states and you have to deliver a series of policy options that make sense for the american people and make sense for national security. it's not funny. there's a tragic comic aspect to all of this because there's buffoonery, he says things that are unhinged. the rail city he's not making good policy. when he came out this morning and said he would be willing to meet in the dmz, that's somebody thinking about atmospherics. i don't know if he thinks he'll be parachuted out of air force one, he'll land in no man's zone and they'll shake hands, that's not going to happen, but that's how he thinks about things. >> we'll talk about the g20 in a moment, but what did you make of this off-hand suggestion twhee

do this a that he would do this, and the motivations to do this, just to shake hands at this international border. what did you make of that? >> it's really laughable. it's not serious. it's unpresidential. none of that should surprise us at this point. everything he does, the way he approaches dictators and adversaries and allies has been the same pattern. he makes light of things. he jokes. he seems to lose his cool. what i mean fwha ean by that in losing his cool around ed adversaries, he doesn't know how to face them and jokes and makes light of things. it's not like you're in paris, hey, i'm in paris, meet me at the eiffel tower for a quick coffee. you can't act like that. he would like to, but it's not getting him anywhere. when he jokes with putin, don't meddle in the election, and with kim jong-un, i would just like

to shake your hand, that's not how it works. it's not moving the needle. i also don't think it's as scary as folks make it seem. but he certainly is walking back american credibility, because on national security it doesn't move us forward. >> elliott, the theme is laughter, another theme throughout the bilateral meetings is how the president said he was honored to be there. vladimir putin, honored to be there with him. what do you make of that? yes, it's the laughter and the discomfort in the setting, but this misconception of who these folks are who these meeting with. >> it's more free advertising for tim o'brien and bloomberg. it's ad hoc governing and governing by gut and not on experience. on immigration, where literally

in one fell swoop the president annoyed immigration activists and law enforcement by outing a law enforcement action that was going to happen. you can disagree or dispute the policy. with reasonable minds can disagree about the reach of mueller, but we shouldn't be talking to russian leaders about are you going hack our elections now? ha, no big deal. >> they are in osaka, and so is kristen welker. there was a focus on the trade war, we understand they will return to the negotiation table. how much of an achievement was that for the administration, reaching this point? >> it's somewhat significant, david.

here's why, because you have global markets that were on edge heading into this g20 summit wondering if they were going to remain at loggerheads. remember, president trump threatened to slam more tariffs on more than 3$300 billion wort of chinese goods if he didn't feel there was real progress being made. effectively what happened? both sides agreed to hit the pause button and go back to the negotiation table and try to get something done. what specifically are they trying to achieve? will they be able to achieve this? it's similar to what happened when these two leaders met in may. they just reached a truce and ultimately president trump wound up putting more tariffs on china. so it's not clear that this is going to lead to that broader trade deal. there are a number of sticking points. obviously the u.s. has put that freeze basically, that ban on u.s. businesses doing any type of business on hau, thiusiness .

the president put a freeze on that overnight saying some companies could still do business with huawei. so they are working through these issues, and it's not clear these will be resolved. some of the jitters will come that we were starting to see worldwide. >> when you look at the long time horizon of these trade negotiations, so many achievements have been just getting these parties back to the table once again. there's been periods where there's troughs and they're not talking, there will be an announcement that the talks are back on. that's where we are and where we have been over the course of the last two years. >> it's not what we expected out of the great trade negotiator, the great dealmaker. you expected someone to go to washington and given his vast deal experience find a right avenue for the american people. and china, iran, north korea,

russia, china is in a category by itself. it's not only a military challenge, it's an economic challenge. and there's a lot of paths to resolving that in a healthy way. if both sides get what they want out of this. huawei is a great example. there's legitimate reasons to worry whether huawei is a threat. president trump said i'm willing to broker some of that off as part of a trade agreement. this morning he said china will be buying vast agricultural products, but there's no evidence they'll do that. >> earlier this week the president said he happened to walk by a tv and see the national debate. when you look back on the press

conference, he talked about what happened at the g20, but he also talked about mexico, the 9th circuit decision on the wall, he talked about jimmy carter's comments as well. some of that was governed by the questions the reporters asked. help us understand how he was animated or more animated by the domestic issues brought up during the press conference. >> he was very animated. no doubt about that. i thought it was striking. that democratic debate happened on a night when he had six different bilateral meetings. he had one eye on the debate going on back at home. that's for sure. he was asked to weigh in on that heated exchange between senator kamala harris and joe biden when she questioned his history on race. biden defended himself vigorously. president trump said that he thought people were overrating her performance effectively. he took the chance to take a swipe at biden, no surprise there. but i thought it was very illustrative of the fact that the president has not quite

figured out what his strategy is if he goes up against kamala harris. he's been taking ae ining aim a biden for months now, but he has not figured out what will his line of attack be against senator harris. privately those in his campaign have said she could be a formidable candidate in a general election. president trump with his eye certainly on the democratic race to defeat him, even while holding these high stakes foreign policy talks. >> kristen welker joining us from osaka, thank you very much for that. much more "up" ahead. president trump hits at the candidate he does not want to go up against at 2020, as he comes to another candidate's defense. we move from the first debate back to the campaign trail, how has the field changed? some analysis from the congresswoman from new york's 14th congressional district. >> it can seem like a high school classroom. some folks didn't seem like they

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harder than he probably should have been up. >> this is "up" and i'm david gura. president trump was playing pundit on what was called the most prominent exchange in four hours of debates over two nights. >> do you agree today that you were wrong to oppose bussing in america then? do you agree? >> i did not oppose bussing in america. what i opposed was bussing ordered by the department of education. that's what i opposed. >> there's a failure of states to integrate public schools in america. i was part of the second class to integrate berkeley, california public schools almost two decades after brown v board of education. >> because your city council made that decision. >> that's where the federal government must step in. >> the front-runner stumbled badly on thursday. that was jonathan allen's assessment. it dominated conversations about the campaign ever since. >> i have already supported

legislation that gives us bussing as a way to help diversify communities and strengthen communities. >> that struck me, i leaned back in miscouch and couldn't believe that one moment. >> kamala harris last night was right when she challenged states rights as a way of addressing the issue. >> we're joined by garrett haake, he was at the debate. he was the first reporter to talk to joe biden after that exchange. he joins us this morning from new hampshire. help us understand how the biden campaign tried to clean this up. we showed joe biden speaking in chicago, a lot of attention on that speech. the former vice president addressing what he said during the course of that debate. what's the strategy going forward? >> there may be a bit of a divide here. it's clear joe biden wants to relitigate and defend his record

as dewith me ohe did with me on. if joe biden wants to be the nominee, he needs to talk more about the future and less about the past. they would like to reclaim the opportunity as joe biden who has been a champion of civil rights, against donald trump. the longer they talk about something that happened in the 1970s, literally anything that happened in the 1970s, the worse of a day it is for joe biden. they're trying to turn the battleship around here. they recognize quite clearly as we saw in that speech in chicago yesterday that they couldn't move on from this issue without engaging with harris more directly. >> you have to wonder about why the campaign didn't see this coming. that's not me having an original thought there, i've seen that written a lot since the debate on thursday night. he has a lot of heavyweights in the communications field advising him on all of this. there were as i saw it, many saw it, two openings on thursday

night, one was the change on the amendment and also this issue. what does this say about his preparedness, about the campaign's preparedness and their readiness to deal with these issues. >> it's hard to say. i would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in the debate prep. there was an assumption early on that the candidates would not go after each other as starkly as we saw happen on the debate stage. especially after wednesday night's debate where the only candidate versus candidate clash was bourqeto o'rourke and julia castro going after each other. it is clear the joe biden campaign thought this would not be a pile on the front-runner. i think they thought we would be seeing all of these candidates trying to engage against each other as foils to donald trump,

not as foils to each other. i was struck that one of the factors in this debate on thursday night that appears to continue was these older candidates sticking together against the younger candidates. now you can lump donald trump into that same category. you had bernie sanders and joe biden who a lot thought would be the two going after each other, largely pushing back against eric swalwell, pete boouttigieg. i found it fascinating that donald trump threw in his loss with the older candidates. >> garrett haake, thank you very much. elliott, let me turn to you on what this moment was. yes, it was about bussing. as you heard at the end of that exchange, kamala harris talking about the role of government. how this has been addressed,

picked up on and used by the campaign since, that's the marquee thing you see her and other candidates picking up. >> people will be studying this moment for generations. it was a master class in political debating. if you are the democratic front-runner and you are on the wrong side of a debate about states rights and bussing, you done messed up. important point. here's what she did in four or five sentences. number one, she is someone polling at about 7% or 8%, who put herself on par with someone polling at 30%, 31%, showing she can go toe to toe with a front-runner. the other thing is the democratic party electorate is about 30% african-american, 57% female, she spoke to them. confronting white people about racial history and racism is incredibly difficult as someone who has been in that position because of how many minefields

and fraught that is. she did it without insulting. if you start a sentence with i don't think you're racist, semicolon, you're about to get dragged out in the back alley. >> i want to ask about personal and political history with regards to these two candidates. we talked about joe biden and his history. talk to me if you would about how each of them approach that. joe biden is aware of his political history, he's aware of his personal history. he seemed ill-equipped to talk about his own, to defend his own or acknowledge that things have changed since that history was formed. there's the personal history and political history of kamala harris as well. there was the line where joe biden said i left a fancy law firm, not quoting here, left a fancy law firm to become a public defender, i didn't become a prosecutoprosecutor. she didn't have to deal with

that attack as she might have during the course of this debate. >> you know, it's remarkable how critical performance is at a debate, being a good debater. she came out on top in terms of her performance and her talent to take people on to put herself forward like that. i was surprised at how biden held back. in general, it felt like he was advised to tone it down, to not come out very strong, to not come out emotional. he wasn't interrupting. he was very careful. but it ended up making him very underwhelming. he didn't do great. he didn't do well. he didn't do that -- he didn't do well. i don't want to say he did badly, but i expected more from him. he has a lot of experience to draw from. i worked with vice president biden when i was at the white house. i was consistently impressed with him. i enjoyed working with him. he was humbling. he always wanted to ask

questions. he always wanted to learn more. he didn't show that on stage. she have apologized when it came to anything related to the past. this is going to come up repeatedly for him. it's baggage he has, it's a risk and a liability. any decision, whether it's iraq related, bussing, all these things, he should find a way, i find viewers are usually very forgiving when a candidate or when a public person apologizes, explains and moves on. this was then, this is now. >> i'm being told to wrap, i have to ask you about this, he said i'm sorry my time is up. picking up on what garrett haake was saying, how do you read into that line? >> he might as well said s.o.s. he did not have a good answer. he could have said i believe the

machinery of government is a tool for enacting our policies in the world. i believe bussing is an avenue for doing that. i respect your experience, senator harris. >> he's running for president, look at this. >> i want to follow a different route. he said i don't have a better answer, someone get me off the stage. the 2020 contenders sound off against the president's tactics and the candidates make their way to a detention center outside of miami. center outside of miami get ready for the insurance-themed experience of a lifetime. it's "progressive on ice." everything you love about car insurance -- the discounts... the rate comparisons... and flo in a boat.

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this is "up," i'm david gura. there are more leadership changes at the department of homeland security where congressman betty thompson says there is a constant game of musical chairs. mark morgan the former head of i.c.e. is now acting chief of customs and border protection. now there's another acting director of i.c.e. in a recent piece it was written each of the homeland security agencies responsible for enforcing immigration policy, immigration and customs enforcement, united states citizenship and immigration services is led by an acting

official. zolan kanno-youngs joins us now from washington, d.c. help us understand how this is playing out. we followed the news over the course of the week, as we saw these candidates go into that facility in homestead, florida what does it look like within the agency? what are folks there saying about the consequences of the disarray you describe. >> for the context you need to go back a couple months to when former homeland security secretary kirstjen nielsen resigned. from then, you had the commissioner of customs and border protection named to lead this ageagency. since then we have seen multiple former officials who seemingly auditioned for these roles on fox news being inserted into this department. each of these officials really are more aligned with and more likely to support the white house's aggressive stance on immigration. we've seen ken cuccinelli come

in. he onced a advocated for polic requiring employees to speak english. he's now the head of the department for legal immigration. we send the president extend an offer to thomas homan to be a board czar. another official who has been outspoken in supporting the president's policies. each of these decisions -- as well as mark morgan. he came in as the head of i.c.e. as well. ron vitello was ousted by mr. trump. mr. trump pulled his nomination, and at the time said we're looking for essentially someone that is tougher. then you see mark morgan come in who, of course, has said that he once looked into the eyes of migrant children and saw potential ms13 gang members. so mark morgan, the head of i.c.e., is moving over to cbp, that comes after a week in which he advocated and very much

pushed in the white house and in homeland security for a nationwide operation that would be a targeted enforcement operation to deport undocumented families as well that were on a doj expedited docket. >> you hear him laying out this carrousel and what it looks like. i would guess, in your interview with the assistant director of i.c.e. did not -- >> no. >> it strikes me, there's a shallow pool here of talent from which the president is pulling and putting back and moving around. what does that say to you about its capacity to deal with what is this humanitarian crisis. >> couple of things. i think that mark morgan comment was worse than that, because i can look into the eyes of some of these children and see -- it's not that i see future gang members. i can look into their eyes and make an assessment as to what's in their soul. immigration is fraught with complex issues.

these are reasonable policy debates to be having. put that aside. you cannot run an institution, these multibillion dollar, multinational security organizations with acting directors. it's bad for government, it's bad for morale, it's just bad for the american people if you are running a -- people need to know who is in charge. people need to know who they're reporting to. if they're gone in a matter of days, it's not good for the underlying policies of the agency. this is just bad for government. it's consistent. these are all folks that i worked with, these names, vitello, tom homan, and kevthey won't have a job through the summer because everybody gets fired at the department of

homeland security >> you know, he announced this roundup of 2 million families, and then decided not to do it. it was an example of the way that president trump often approaches policy decisions like this one. help us understand the disconnect between those who work at the agency and how they run it. the president said today in osaka, that it wouldn't take days to do, this could be done in minutes. that's a quote from the president of the united states. >> when he tweeted out that we were going to start deporting millions of people, it did blind side many people and surprise many people in the agency as well as i.c.e. specifically. when you're going to -- even from a law enforcement standpoint, for the people in this agency, that would say, look, these are people who have been issued a deportation order, or they missed a court date. for the people that want to carry out that operation, they would still say you can't just

telegraph it to the entire country in a tweet. at that point you're putting agents in danger. you're going to spread fear across the country. it's not the way that you usually handle business from a law enforcement standpoint as well. that was really good example of the disconnect here between the agents on the ground as well as the people in the white house that are looking to spread a message here when it comes to these different operations. when 2 comit comes to the delay happened last week, we had a supplemental emergency border aid package that passed, but the president was not clear on what he wanted democrats to do. he said that he wanted change to asylum laws as well. so we'll see if he gets the changes he wants. >> zolan kanno-youngs, thank

you. thank you very much for the time. appreciate it. coming up, president trump's suggestion he could delay the constitutionally mandated census as the u.s. supreme court decries the contrived rational on the president's proposed question on citizenship. that's a chevy blazer? aww, this is dope. this thing is beautiful. i love the lights. oh man, it's got a mean face on it. it looks like a piece of candy. look at the interior. this is nice. this is my sexy mom car. i would feel like a cool dad. it's just really chic. i love this thing. it's gorgeous. i would pull up in this in a heartbeat. i want one of these. that is sharp. the all-new chevy blazer. speaks for itself. i don't know who they got to design this but give them a cookie and a star. his life is pretty comfortable. then, he laid on a serta and realized his life was only just sorta comfortable. i've been living a lie. (laughs) the serta icomfort hybrid mattress. not just sorta comfortable, serta comfortable.

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it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life. ♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today. this is "up," i'm david gura. the u.s. supreme court blocked president trump's attempt to include a question about citizenship in the 2020 census for now at least. in what was a 5-4 decision john roberts joined the four liberal justices in writing for the majority said commerce secretary wilbur ross's reasoning for adding the question appears to have been contrived. the ruling leaves the administration little time to make its case before the census bureau needs to start printing forms for the krcensus. hours after the decision, president trump called for a

delay of the census. ha hansi lo wang joins us now. is it definitive that question will not be on the census? >> it is for now, is this question a citizen of the united states, that question is being blocked from the 2020 census forms. the supreme court opened up a window for the trump administration to try to make another case in court. monday is when the census bureau says 1.5 billion pieces of paper including paper questionnaires have to be printed with or without that citizenship question. >> that's the official deadline. how much leeway does the administration have to see how this plays out through the courts? >> that's a good question. i asked that of the census

bureau. krcensus bureau officials testified last year that the deadline could be pushed back to october 31st with exceptional effort and additional resources. what that means, i don't know. >> elliot, what do you make of the opinion as it was handed down? >> it's about the census, but sometimes the opinion about the census is not about the census, it's about voting who has a voice and who is allowed to speak in our democracy. that line john roberts used of contrived reasons is a big deal. you have someone saying, this would be advantageous to republicans and non-hispanic whites. it's very rare that you get the guy being racist on the record, that's kind of what you have here. yes, this gives them time legally to provide -- there's nothing illegal about putting a census question on the census. they have to demonstrate a legal

basis for doing it. maybe they'll make up a within for it now. it's so thin, and we know they're trying to prevent people of color and liberals from voting. >> we were talking about the seemingly ad hoc decision the president made to send a note, send a tweet to the leader of north korea about shaking hands at the border. i see this as part of a continuum, trying to delay the census. that this constitutionally mandated thing that could be delayed or moved at whim. >> he always says what serves him best in the moment. at this point it's hard to take him seriously. regardless of the issue. you know, with this issue in particular, though, the thing that is so difficult to wrap your mind around is that -- first, we have justice roberts saying this is contrived, that's a big deal for justice to say that about a cabinet official. secondly f he's facing all these problems -- let's pretend he can

make a legal justification to add this question on the census, the problem is an issue he created. that's a pattern. make crisis, fix crisis, pat self on back. did he this repeatedly. if the push back on this has to do with lack of trust in the government, right? lack of trust that such a census will not be used to redraw district lines. that those who are immigrants won't fill out the census because they're afraid this is a problem he's created. the fact that it's fine, we can do it until october. >> hansi you were talking to tameran keith and you talk about the history of this you looked at the date tax demographics, the history as well. has there been a question like that in the past? h >> past u.s. census forms have

asked about sit citizesicitizen. not every person was asked about it. it was only asked to people born outside of the u.s. if this citizenship question that the trump administration wants is added on to the 2020 census t will be the first time the u.s. census has been used to directly ask about the citizenship status of every person in every household in the country. >> tim, lastly to you about what wlern we learned since this was argued, help us with that context here, how that's changed the way we see the inclusion of this five or six-word question. >> clearly the supreme court is hip to this. there was the passage in this in which they said if you are going to do this, don't lie to us. the second thing is you've seen roberts emerge as someone who i

think cares about the institutional presence of the supreme court around a lot of these decisions, he's not willing to go with what might be his natural majority on the court. he's willing to side with liberals on the court if he thinks these process things move forward. it's not clear he's willing to do that every time on principle, but he's clearly willing to do it around administrative oversight. they clearly were saying in the ruling, he sort of punted on this, he said you didn't play ball fairly. we're calling you on this. back in your court. >> thank you very much, hansi, great to see you as always. up next, the deep divisions among the president's national security advisers on iran. first i want to make sure we get this in here. at an event in virginia, former president jimmy carter said this about the 45th president of the united states. >> he lost the election, he was put into office because of russian interference on his behalf. >> so you believe president trump is an illegitimate

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. this is "up," iran has filed a complaint with the united nations over what it says was a u.s. violation of its airspace. the u.s. claims iran shot the drone down in international air space, not iranian air space. it happens as senior iranian officials hold meetings in vienna, meeting with signatories of the iran nuclear deal. >> if you look at what's happened on foreign policy. we are working on iran, we'll see what happens. i think they would like to make a deal. i think they would very smart to want to make a deal. i'm okay, i have all the time in the world. >> worked on sanctions in the treasury department. i want to work on what he just said there. open to making a deal. talks about the prospects for there being some sort of agreement. help us understand how it's possible in light of the sanctions he levied on the foreign minister of iran. can no longer visit the u.s. can't come to the u.n. meeting

as well. what does that mean for the prospects of there being any kind of agreement going forward. >> let's start with the facts. the fact that he said that the iranians want to make a deal. i find that highly unlikely. at the end of the day they're going to want sanctions relief. the only way to do that is the united states at the other end of the table. both sides have made it clear they're not interested in talking. so that's number one. and in terms of foreign minister za reiff it's not unprecedented to sanction a foreign minister. it's a decision that's heavily weighted and calibrated. you don't do that if you are seeking diplomacy. so that's the second part. the third part is that's not really what i think president trump wants. his first goal and he said it when he abdicated from the deal was, he wanted to undermine iran's support for terrorism and destabilizing behavior in the region. sanctions are working to achieve that goal. the goal to getting another

deal, is secondary if not tertia tertiary. does he have time? that's very presumptuous, given next year. because i think it would take a lot of time to get there. where you have and where we are in the moment with the sanctions, where they are at their peak, farther than president obama had taken them in 2011, '12, '13, where they are now, the iranian response and the fact we don't have the europeans on board, frankly the europeans don't know what they're doing with iran means that we're not headed towards negotiations at any time soon. >> where are we when it comes to allies? you look at who might have been the allies who backed us there. it is not europe. it is not core of allies we might have had in the past. had does it mean for iran policy in the white house more generally? >> the u.s. can't operate unilaterally, globally, any way on any policy. we need to have alliances across the globe, we specifically need to have alliances with western

europe. what trump has done is he's left our allies reeling. in the same way that he leaves his own staff reeling. he doesn't listen to advice and he doesn't pursue policy goals. we talked about it earlier. he thinks about things sin maticallmat ical ically. he appears to be the pilling who is willing to take military action to resolve complex situations when in his heart of hearts he does not want to get more involved militarily there. but he's surrounded by people like john bolton who is ready to pull the trigger and he's surrounded by allies who don't know what he's going to do next. i think what he's done is dangerous when it comes to foreign affairs and diplomacy, he's left people back on their heels and uncertain. >> i think you'll see more of that as we get closer to the election. this is flexing the power of incumbency and power the presidency. it comes full circle when you talk about this hour it came up in the context of immigration. but the i alone can fix it.

which was essentially the key point at the 2016 convention, you're seeing a president who is i think over the next year more than likely to go it alone and more willing to. >> the obama administration used sanctions, trump administration is using sanctions as well. have we exhausted them when it comes to iran? when you saw the sanctions levied this week is that the end of what the u.s. can do? >> i'm glad you're bringing up the sanctions question to me. there's never an exhaustion to sanctions you can always find the loopholes that the iranians are using to evade sanctions. you have, you always have that, there's endless supply of that. but more importantly where you have, where they haven't exhausted everything is going on the road, pressuring the europeans and asian allies to sanction as well. there's an option for that. the germans have said if iran violates the deal they would consider sanctions. iran is now in violation of the deal. they've enriched their stockpile past the limit in the deal. and the uk might be interested in them. because they also assess that

iran had attacked those oil tankers. there's lots left to do. it's not, it's never exhausted. >> leave it there, thank you very much. joining me on site in new york. come back tomorrow, lynnette lopez is here, and pete dominick, that's "up" on sunday right here on msnbc. in the next hour, president trump indicates he's open to meeting with kim jong un at the dmz. but it was this exchange with another world leader that grabbed the headlines at the g20.

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. this is "up," president trump has just wrapped up another trip to japan where he was focus on politics here in the united states. for the debates and testimony from special counsel robert mueller, as he met with world leaders including the crown prince of saudi arabia and the president of russia. as we count down to election day 2020, it's important to note robert mueller was unequivocal about what russia did in 2016. >> there were multiple systematic efforts to interfere in our election. and that allegation deserves the attention of every american. >> every american and every intelligence official, including the fbi director, who called russia's meddling a dress rehearsal for 2020. but the white house this week,

before he embarked on his trip to the g20. president trump was asked about the subject by reporters. >> . >> i'll have a very good conversation with them. what i say to them is none of your business. >> well one of my colleagues asked the president the same question at the start of a bilateral meeting yesterday between president trump and president putin . >> >> don't meddle in the election. >> an astonishingly light-hearted reaction. for the first meeting with russian president vladimir putin. only two weeks ago the president said he's open to accepting dirt on opponents from foreign sources. >> the joke is on us and putin is the only one laughing. schumer went on to say the president is basically giving putin a green light to interfere in 2020.

in a wide-ranging interview with the "financial times," russia's leader calls president trump a talented person who knows very well what his voters expect from him. we learned this week robert mueller will testify on capitol hill wednesday july 17 by members of the house intelligence and the house judiciary committees. the chairman of those committees subpoenaed the special counsel making good on the democrats' promise to get one of the principles in this investigation to breathe life into a 400-plus page report. to make it into a movie. well the news prompted "huffington post" reporter ryan ri reilly to say this. the trailer for movie -- this would be the stand-out line. >> if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. under longstanding department policy, a president cannot be charged with a federal crime while he is in office. charging the president with a

crime was therefore not an option we could consider. >> joining me this hour, eugene scott a "washington post" political reporter. michael feuks, an adviser to elizabeth warren's campaign for president and vice chair of the new york state democratic party and mimi rokas, an msnbc legal analyst. let's start with this. the transition from book to movie. christine quinn i'll start with you. how difficult is that going to be? do you agree with the tweet, that this is going to have a lot of difficulty on the part of the congress to get robert mueller to enliven the report? >> i think it's going to be five-star challenging. the robert mueller did not want to testify. it took them negotiations and then a subpoena. this is a man who understands court-like proceedings and has a great respect for the rule of

law. and he did not want to testify. let's look just at his first opportunity to break on to the big screen. his press conference. it was -- nothing. it added nothing to the debate. it was a restatement of, i've issued a report, let me summarize the report and that's what you're getting. and i think beyond that, even if he wanted to testify, it's a very unusual position for him to be in. he's a prosecutor. he's not someone who is usually interrogated. he does the interrogating. so i, look, i hope something as a democrat, i hope the democrats do well and in convening this hearing. i hope something new comes out that will be more transparent for the american people, but i don't think that's likely. >> amy rocha, i'm going to guess that you like the book more than the movie. what has to be in the movie to make it good, to be on parallel with the book, with the report itself? >> i think what has to be in the

movie is the substance of the book. i'm going to respectfully disagree. because i don't think we need something new from robert mueller. what's in the report, what's in the book, if people focus on the individual acts of obstruction. let's put aside russia for a second. but the individual acts of obstruction. they are so blatant. and shocking and every time in our reporting something comes out where we sort of focus on this, like flynn's lawyer getting this voicemail from trump's lawyer to stop him from cooperating. and everybody goes -- wait, what? that was in a recent news cycle. guess what, that was in the report, but it gets lost. because one, no one has read the report, and two, there's so much in the report and you had bill barr, basically misleading everyone about the report. so i think if robert mueller just in his own dry way, he's not going to be arguing, he's not going to be impassioned, he's not going to be making a

case for impeachment. he needs to get people to focus on the conduct that he's described in such detail. in the report. i think he will do that. >> i feel like that is just a microcosm of this entire administration. when you look back over these few years that the president has been in the white house you go -- i completely forgot that happened. and that he said that. and that this thing happened. and it's credibincredibly absur. every time rex tillerson's name comes up in the news cycle you go, i completely forgot. i think these are the types of things that the democrats running for the white house hoping you know to get into the oval office are going to have to remind the american people, would you like a presidency that's a little -- boring? or tame and orderly? and not just this long reality series? >> i'm going to torture this metaphor, how much improv is there going to be?

robert mueller has written the script. how difficult is it going to be to offer more color to answer questions which will go beyond this report. >> i think to gene's point, we need to step back and see the context. instead of watching the same news reel again and again we need to first look at the report, as mimi pointed out. robert mueller made very clear -- the president of the united states obstructed justice. the president of the united states colluded with russia to win the 2016 presidential election. the president of the united states has made clear now that he's going to do that again, if the opportunity presents itself. so instead of having this ongoing conversation that we've had over the last two years about let's wait and see what robert mueller says in his report, now we've got the report. let's said what robert mueller says in his testimony to congress. why don't we just get on with

it. mueller's report is an inpeachment referral to congress and congress needs to act. >> this is an outlier, you've seen other hearings before and you've watched how they prosecute things like this, how they ask questions. i imagine this is still very new to you as somebody who toiled in that branch of the judiciary. what do they need to do to make this effective? collaborate more? figure out their line of questioning? >> so the world that i come from, justice system, every hearing like this is actually an exercise in getting out facts, right? and finding out information. congressional hearings are nothing like that as far as i can tell. as an observer. they need to make this, though, more of a fact-finding, not about making political points, not about trying to grill robert mueller on why he didn't subpoena trump. we can all, we can talk about that. robert mueller is not going to give much insight into that and

frankly, it doesn't matter right now. what matters is what he has already found. to your point, he has found collusion. and yet we have the president and the attorney general out there every day, still saying no collusion. and that is absolutely not true. no criminal conspiracy, fine. but no seclusion cloougcollusio? that's a lie and they need to have robert mueller, who has some credibility still, one of the few people left to say that. >> i would actually if i was running this hearing, because there's hearings and there's hearings. and the capital "h" ones, you need to run them in a way like you run a court hearing. there's a goal, what is the goal for this hearing? then the chairpeople need to set everything to those goals. they need to have who their top five questioners are, what their questions are. they need to practice what the rebuttal will be.

they need to coordinate highly in advance. with mueller's staff and other staff of the congress people so they know what note to give their congress people if this isn't orchestrated like the "nutcracker" it will be useless. >> directors christine quinn, eugene we'll go to you lastly. we're seeing the contours coming into focus. the judiciary committee, not all members will be able to ask questions in open session. does that tell you that that kind of focus is emerging? >> we would hope so. think what we've often seen or at least people have concluded is that a lot of times these hearings are for people in congress to make a name for themselves. to go viral, to remind you that they're running for president. but the reality is, as everyone has noted, what the american people need to be reminded of, is something happened regarding the involving the campaign of the president of the united states, and even the early days

of the administration, that is deeply concerning, that should not have happened. and that changes needs to be made to make sure that doesn't happen again. >> how much does this exchange that we saw in the beginning of the bilateral meeting between trump and putin color what's going to unfold. >> the fact that trump said recently he's willing to do this again to get russian help to win in 2020, just shows us what the stakes are right here for congress, and frankly for the american people to take action. >> but they can't get -- i agree. but the committee cannot get distracted. and focus on that news clip. because then that will dominate the story and take precious time. this is business. and they can't grandstand and the chair people need to cut them off if they do. and no little news tangent. no shiny little thing should distract them the morning of this hearing. >> thank you very much. up next, the surprise

invitation from the president that north korea is calling very interesting this morning. why at least one prominent analyst calls it emblematic of president trump's pursuit of a photo-op in place of any real substance just listen. (vo) there's so much we want to show her. we needed a car that would last long enough to see it all. (avo) subaru outback. ninety eight percent are still on the road after 10 years. come on mom, let's go! oh! oh! oh! ♪ ozempic®! ♪ (announcer) people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®. in a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than seven and maintained it. oh! under seven? and you may lose weight. in the same one-year study, adults lost on average up to 12 pounds.

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gura, that was president trump in japan saying he would feel comfortable crossing the dnz into north korea. unprecedented. in a tweet last night trump invited north korea's leader kim jong un to meet him at the border as he visits the peninsula. setting up a potential third summit. he wrote while there, if chairman kim of north korea sees this, i would meet him at the border just to shake his hand. and say hello. >> it's worth noting that twitter is not available in north korea. an aide for kim jong un called the invitation an interesting suggestion. the invitation follows another love letter between the two leaders. president trump said kim sent him a beautiful birthday card earlier this month. joining us from headquarters is janice mackey. we know that president xi jinping has recently met with kim jong un. how much do you think that influenced the president's eagerness, president trump's eagerness to have a meeting or a handshake with the leader of

north korea? >> you start to put all of these pieces together and it forms a very interesting picture. the question of course is could this actually happen? president trump is saying that he just thought of it. that he was putting the feelers out. but it does put, give it an interesting context, given the recent visit to pyongyang by china's president, xi jinping. what appeared to be a bit of a truce, between china and the united states. on issues of trade and also huawei. there was the quote most excellent letter that kim jong un had received from president trump last week. it was splashed all over the pages of newspapers in north korea. so perhaps this has been in the works a bit longer than the tweet last night. the question is will it happen? the north koreans have replied saying they haven't received an official proposal yet. but that could mean a lot of things, including, yes. whether it will actually advance

negotiations, is of course unclear. what's also interesting to note is a change in the pattern of behavior, news conference today, just before it happened. and apparently didn't walk back in. now why that could be interesting, a couple of months ago, kcna, the state news agency in north korea was very public in its criticism of mike pompeo. saying if there was any expectation that the north koreans were going to return to the negotiating table, it could not include him. so that could be interpreted as the secretary of state taking a step back. and advance of what could be a very historic day tomorrow. >> janice mackey ferrer. >> let me ask you about the import of this. during the press conference president trump said we won't call it a summit, we'll call it a handshake. you know well from your work at the state department the import

of that. it's not a small thing. it would not be a small thing for president trump to go to this location, the dmz to meet him there, to go into north korea. a handshake can take on huge import. >> the diplomacy with north korea is necessary. the only way we're going to address any of these issues with north korea. what trump is doing now with north korea is not diplomacy, it's reality tv and he's stringing us all along for the ride. he's tweeting out about dropping in and saying hi for a minute to the world's most brutal dictator just for a photo op. there's no substance that's going to come out of that. i've got a recommendation to president trump. if he wants to tweet something. that will actually help us make progress with north korea why doesn't he tell kim jong un over twitter that he's willing to compromise, he's willing to pick up where they left off in hanoi and he's willing to send his negotiators to meet with the north korean counterparts, any time, any place. that's diplomacy. this, when he's doing in setting

us up for potentially tomorrow? that's reality tv. >> eugene scott what do you think when you saw that tweet cross the transom last night. in inurred to something like this? >> i have no guess as we, we were just were told, the response from north korea could mean anything from yes to no. i was fascinated by the lack of seriousness or understanding coming from the president about the reality of this situation. all the way down from not seeming to understand that he doesn't even have twitter. to realizing that, just because these past few summits failed more or less, that doesn't mean that you lean in and try to create a third opportunity. so that you can find a win. you go back, revisit, saying what is it that i ultimately

want to happen. what's in the best interests for the american people and how do we implement that? this is not about me, this is not about getting w's in the press, it's about realizing that we're dealing with a situation that 0 have serious implications on the world stage if i don't approach it in a way that's beneficial for the american people. >> the cavalierness of this, the president proud of the fact that there hasn't been a war, north korea hasn't launched a nuclear weapon. >> low bar. low bar. about the cavalierness on an issue that's something that perhaps i dare say deserves to be treated in a different way. >> if it wasn't so deadly serious, not just to us but to the entire world -- it would be amusing. it might be like a funny reality tv show. you turn on to escape and turn your brain off. but this is deadly serious. and it shows, yes, a cavalier

attitude. two, a total narcissism. and three, just a -- cavalier, you know you're being cavalier. i don't even think he has any sense of the gravity of the situation or the recklessness of what he does. >> there are moments where i wonder if he understands why people have a problem with what he's doing? because he's never addressed it. usually one would say i hear my critics saying this. there are even people in my own administration or my team saying i should do this differently. but he never addresses those. >> interesting. >> look, he you know that he treats this like reality tv. when he was at the g20 after he tweeted that out, he rushed up to moon jae in, the president of south korea saying did you see the tweet, did you see the tweet? like an excited schoolboy here. he wants to be the first person, first american president to step foot in north korea. he wants these wins. >> he wants the headline. >> early in the campaign i said you're an unpaid unofficial

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. welcome back the. the supreme court will decide on the future of daca protections for young undocumented immigrants this time last year in the middle of the 2020 election season. amid a week of devastating headlines in the u.s. the first democratic presidential debate. >> if i were president today i would sign an executive order that would get rid of trump's zero tolerance policy. the remain in mexico policy and the metering policy. >> there are undocumented immigrants in my community who pay, they pay sales taxes. they pay property taxes directly or indirectly. this is not about a handout. this is an insurance program. >> and if you take a lot of children and you put them in detainment center, inflicting trauma on them, that is called child abuse. >> this decision to take up

daca, this is one of those issues where so much has been happening in so many different parts of the country. help us understand what they're going to be weighing and the timeline for this happening. >> it's interesting, because they didn't expedite it. so while this is sort of been playing out furiously in the political realm and the media, by the time a year from now that they have a decision on it, every candidate is already going to obviously if they haven't already have to stake out their position. we're going to be so close to the 2020 election. so on the one hand they're, we'll get to the gerrymandering, trying to stay out of politics. on the other hand they're going to be wading in at a moment where it is at its height. so it's interesting just the timing alone. >> mike pucks during the course of the debate. senator harris says don't forget about the kids. there's been such a focus about the migrant conditions being

held in deplorable conditions in shelters across the country. this is an issue of keen importance to so many people across the country. what do you make of the timing of this? >> fundamentally, this is about the soul of our country. it's about what kind of a country we are. now i think you saw on the democratic debate stage was a genuine debate about policy. right, everyone there welcomes immigrants, knows they add to our country. they are an essential part of our country and they are struggling and trying to figure out what the best policies are, right, to fix this system. but that's not the debate that president trump and the republicans are having. they are fear-mongering. and they're making the problem worse. if you want to get at the root causes of the problems, why don't we invest in central america to help the root causes, just the root causes of these problems. rather than locking kids in cages. on the border. i mean this is just not the

trump administration is not having a real debate about this. they want to fear-monger. >> we saw the president respond when the candidates have conversations. >> in japan no less when he had six bilateral meetings on the agenda. he happened to see it on a tv screen. go after he said he wouldn't be watching. what's been interesting, it's from the right, the president and many of his supporters as they look at the left seeing them trying to figure out solutions to all of these issues related to immigrants have concluded if the left's stance is how can we make life better for immigrants, trump feels like he's already won. because many of the people on his side are not interested in improving the situation for daca, for children and migrants, they're interested in keeping as many immigrants out of the united states as possible and wants to back someone who has policies and ideas rooted around that. >> christine what changed about our understanding of this issue. there was that photograph, we're going to spend some time talking

with a photographer who took that photograph. but that was powerful. you saw this pilgrimage of political candidates from miami to homestead to peer over the wall into one of these facilities, how has that coupled with what mike is talking about, changed the national understanding of the issue of immigration, do you think? >> i think the picture is the most pivotal thing that has happened. not just this week. but maybe the entirety or significant part of the debate. it's so true, the president and his allies are fear-mongering, they're playing to that, 28 or 30% of the base. they're not going to lose who hates immigrants, who blames immigrants for all of their problems. and they don't want any of them here. documented or undocumented. but the picture made it human. >> in the same way the picture of the man hoeding the baby on the beach in syria made that

conflict human. whatever you think about the nuance of policy, and those matters, you can't erase from your mind that father and his child clinging to each other. clinging for life. and the hope of better things. and this idea that people are leaving their countries frivolously -- the rejection of the reality that they're fleeing terrible violence and crippling poverty. i think has been erased. you see the human loss. you see pain in a way that you often never do. so i think that picture has made it much harder for the fear-mongering to be successful. and to penetrate. and not to pivot immediately to politics. but -- in an election sense, the

president has those 30%, right. he's not going to lose them. but that picture makes it very hard to bring in others through a fear-mongering sense. and then that picture and that fear-mongering juxtaposed to the democratic opponents, going arm in arm together, saying that this work is about a higher cause. not a title. really sends a message of who has the concerns of the world in their hearts. >> up next, the crucial supreme court case that could change the political landscape for years to come. the implication for a political system, after the break you nee. nice. but, uh... what's up with your... partner? not again. limu that's your reflection. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

. welcome back to "up," in what many are considering a setback to american democracy, the united states supreme court ruled thursday that the issue of partisan gerrymandering is beyond the scope of the federal courts. according to the chief justice, gerrymandering is a quote political question that should be left up to congress or states to decide. like my home state of north carolina and maryland won't have to redraw new congressional districts before the 2020 elections. if the only way to address the issue is by voting in representatives that oppose gerrymandering, how can you vote for them if your vote has been diminished by redrawn districts.

justice elena kagan said in an opinion she read from the bench. the partisan gerrymandering have debased and dishonored our democracy, the core governmental idea that all power derives from the people. >> i've been to the supreme court arguments, i've seen opinions handed down. it's extraordinary when a justice reads from a dissent. we had elena kagan doing that. what she had to say from the bench and what she's saying. >> she's saying to the rest of the court, you've abdicated your responsibility here. just because it would be hard for the court to intervene in a way that is defer yengs and respectful to the political process, we throw up our hands and say, can't do it. that's the most remarkable part here. it's not like the court has never and doesn't weigh in on

things that are political. bush versus gore, pretty political. i mean this is all kind of tied together. but instead, they just said no, you know not doing it. and that i agree with her. the second thing she is saying is, as a matter of principle, the result of it, the fact that we are leaving this blatant political gerrymandering out there uncontrolled, is a violation of the one person, one vote. she's making two different points. the first one is almost the most important, it has the potential to affect other things as well. >> i'll read a bit from her dissent. for the fist time in this nation's history the majority acknowledges it can do nothing about be a an acknowledged constitutional violation because it has searched high and low and

can't find a workable standard to apply. the decision delivered an example of how a new justice can create monumental change. justice kennedy with, someone who couldn't have gone where brett kavanaugh went in this decision. >> that dynamic is what we feared with the kavanaugh appointment. one that he himself, not withstanding all of the other controversy and revolting behavior, that he was not that thoughtful of a jurist. that he was not a jurist who was of the level to be on the supreme court. that he wasn't proven creative thinker. we see that. we see this significantly. we also see with his appointment, no longer having that swing vote, if you will. has emboldened the more conservative part, less creative part of the court. i think that's a real danger moving forward.

and ruth bader ginsberg has to stay alive for a very, very long time. >> let's go to north carolina, my home state, you spent time there as well. there is, it was acknowledged by chief justice roberts, there was shamelessness to the way this was done. the voting lines were drawn to preserve this configuration of seats they had in north carolina. >> if you look at the map it's obvious that things were done to try to keep certain people from not being represented or have their votes count as much as others. and having the issues that matter most to them, addressed in congress, i was speaking this week to voters in north carolina. and i think one of the biggest take-aways that people are thinking about is what this does to voter confidence. north carolina we know is a state that very regularly is in a position of is it going to be blue or red? it's been purple for a while.

and this combined with issues that so many americans are already having to consider, heading into the 2020 election. related to interference makes it very difficult for some people to go out of their way, show up and make their voices heard. if they don't feel like ultimately at the end of the day they're going to be listened to. >> as a result of the supreme court decided? >> it's up to state legislatures now. and state legislatures and every citizen needs to stand up and show their representatives that they want to be counted. they want their voices to be heard. what the supreme court did here was make clear that it is okay for representatives to choose their voters. rather than voters choosing their representatives. and that is just unbelievable. the history of our country is one in which we make slow perhaps, but we make progress towards a more perfect union and a better democracy. what the supreme court did here

is taking us back, a huge step, stripping away one of those core constitutional safeguards. >> as you look ahead to immigration and other big decisions, what does it tell you about the way that they approach these issues. >> they're going to hide behind this cloak of we're the court, we're above it all, we don't get involved in politics. while that's been to a certain degree, a feature of a conservative of a conservative court -- >> quaint or anachronistic, what do you think about that? >> it's a facade. it's a pretext. they instead of doing its job, which again, as i said, would be to rule, create a deferential standard. but not just pull out and say,

this isn't our job. >> we're going to leave it there, mimi, thank you very much. up next the growing schism within the democratic party as the old guard stands up against the new . >> joe biden was right when he said it was time to patch the torch to a new generation of americans 32 years ago day, visionaries are creating the future. ♪ so, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. ♪ the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. ♪ because the future only happens with people who really know how to deliver it. because the future only happens with people when you start with a better that's no way to treat a dog... ...you can do no wrong. where did you learn that? the internet... yeah? mmm! with no artificial preservatives or added nitrates or nitrites,

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pestirorous and moderate people that pamake up the backbone. according to a survey, michael references in that piece actual democrats skew younger. take a look at that. 43% are under the age of 40.

over 12% are over 70, 54% are white, 36% make under $30,000 a year, 37% have a high school education or real, tomaski argues it could bring the democratic party to ruin in 2020. i'm pleased to say he joins us now.

not nearly as liberal as the twit determimocratic wing. >> you go back and look how things were in 2016. it could be worse than it was in 2016. how has the landscape changes from superdelegates to automatic delicates. >> this gets into the question of the rule changes the democratic party made that were governed and how they choose the nominee and made one significant chance. people will remember who the superdelegates are, the elected officials, governors, senators, house members and so on and democratic national o committee members and they get to endorse whomever they want and usually they endorse the establishment person, the front runner in 2016

they almost overwhelmingly backed hillary clinton. this time they will have their say but much later in the process, not until a potential second ballot at the convention. so what that sets up in the darkest scenario, i mean, there are scenarios where it doesn't really matter but, you know, the most contentious scenario that that sets up is that we go into the convention no one has a majority of delegates but somebody is close and then somebody let's say bernie sanders because his backers are so passionate and tend not to care as much about the democratic party as other people, suppose we have a situation like that. on the second ballot, the superdelegates called automatic delegates would step in and anoint the winner and block sanders and that is a recipe for problems. >> michael brought up the senator from vermont. this isfr him and kasie hunt in miami where the debates take place. take ata listen to what he had

say in this subject area. >> if it's clear that you are not going to be the democratic nominee, will you leave the race before the convention? >> i intend to be the democratic nominee. >> but if you're not -- >> no -- >> some people said -- >> wait, wait -- >> hillary clinton -- >> some people say if maybe that system was not rigged against me, i would have won the nomination and defeated donald trump. >> let me turn to you on the point michael was raising, what does that exchange tell you about how the next few months are going to look. >> well, bernie, i think will be in until the end. the question is does he gain some enlightenment to understand that sometimes the fat lady sings earlier than he wants that to happen. look, maybe he'll be the nominee and it's a different question but we cannot have him regardless of who the nominee is kind of hang on and drag down.

it's too serious. i understand the intensity of bernie's supporters and applaud them because they certainly made policy impacts on the agenda that are significant but we have to beat donald trump. think of the potential of this lunatic as a lame duck. we cannot let our egos get in the way. it's one thing for the senator to say that now in june, july, i do hope his mind changes. >> i want to ask you about another piece i read in coff compliment in michael's. he does a good job of looking at surveys. i'll read a quotation, race and immigration are the issues donald trump and hise republic allies want to place front and center in p2020. i read that with michael's piece as he talks about the diversity of the party. what do you make in light of

that with what the president had to say about that debate, exchange that took place by between kamala harris and joe biden? >> as i said, we talked about before theke president is a fea mongerer and he wants to raise issues in the way he sdchlt let me take a step back for a second here. you know, we're still in june, i think, of 2019, right? we still20 got a little more th a year to gore before the conventions. we like to talk about electability and what the road to a contested convention might look like as michael's piece outlines here. so let's take a step back, though, right? we do this, we have the same conversation. i was on hillary clinton's 2008 presidential campaign. there was a whole conversation about, right, how long is this primary going to go? 2016 the same thing. 2016 on the republican side. donald trump, everyone is wondering contested convention. will they take it away from trump and give it to somebody else? let's take a stept back for a second. we had f a substantive policy

debate this week between democrats talking about real solutions on issues like immigration. i think that's where theke focu should be for the democrats for everybody right now and if we get to a point in 11 months or so where maybe it looks like there is a i contested conventi, you maybe have that conversation. >> all right. >> i think earlier -- >> quickly. >> i was a big hillary supporter but she went on too long and bernie went on too long in '16. i agree. it's early. don't panic but plan. don't panic but plan we need to be doing that. >> counsel there from the formeh counsel speaker. michael, thank you very much. appreciate it. i commend the piece. thanks to my panelist here in new pyork. eugene scott, michael fukes. stay with us. come back tomorrow. linettt lopez will be here starting at 8:00 eastern time. at the top of the hour, joy reed with more on will they or won't they? moments away from trump kim 3.0.

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