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david gura. more breaking news in california this morning. another powerful earthquake. magnitude 7.1. the strongest quake in southern california in 20 years. >> i ran up to my house. my house is completely on the ground levelled. destroyed. >> we'll go live to california for the latest. plus, president trump continues to fight for his citizenship question on the census even though the survey is already being printed. >> we're thinking about doing that. >> and the president wanted a fourth of july spectacular. some were saying it was an expensive wash out. >> the continental army suffered a bitter winter from. it took over the airports.

it did everything it had to do and under the rocket's red glare, it had nothing but victory. >> nothing but victory. and saturday july 6th. truth is stranger than fiction. revolutionary airports mentioned. >> we're going to live on. we're going to survive. today we celebrate our independence day! joy williams is joining us, heather mcgehee is an msnbc contributor. let's begin this morning with the latest on the trump administration's fight to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census. justice department lawyers told a federal court in maryland they will continue to look for ways to add the question to the survey even though they face series of challenges. both logistical and legal.

>> we're thinking about doing that. it's one of the ways. we have four or five ways we can do it. it's one of the ways we're thinking about doing it very seriously. we're doing well on the census. >> the census forms are already being printed. it's a huge undertaking. they need to make 117 english questionnaires. we're talking about 1.53 billion pieces of material that have to be ready to go by the end of the calendar year. the "washington post" wrote in a piece published on thursday, one printer would need to print more than 130 items every second to finish the job before the ball drops in time's square. let us get a sense what the president is thinking at this point. we had the supreme court decision. the majority sending us back to the administration to explain it while the other cases are making their way through courts in

maryland and new york. the president saying in that clip there are four or five options they're considering here. time is ticking. what is he thinking? >> i mean, the president is clearly thinking he's trying to get the question on the census. and it has a huge impact on all kinds of things for the next decade. as he suggested, this has political implications whether republicans or democrats end up representing certain districts within the country and which states have the most representatives in congress and which programs get federal funding and who gets that federal funding. but i think we need to step back and look at what census fights are about. they've been about the same thing since the founding of this country. it's who has power in this country. and it has been the fight if you look at the enumeration clause in the constitution. that's what it goes back to, everybody should read the enumeration clause. you don't get too far in the clause from the census being

conducted before you get to the comprise. which was about states being able to hold slaves, not make them citizens, not give them benefits, but also, at the same time, keep power for those states. and we see the same fight playing out here. we see that it's not the same as slaves people brought over from africa as it is with undot-co d undocumented immigrants. in terms of the outcome, we're basically talking about generally wealthier whiter groups of people and generally people of color with less power. >> you heard what the president said. let me play a bit that have tape. the president made his way from the white house to his house in new jersey. >> you need it for many reasons. number one, for congress. you need it for congress for districting. you need for appropriations. where are the funds going? how many people are there?

are they citizens? are they not citizens? you need it for many reasons. >> i'm going to turn to you on this point. he says the quiet stuff out loud. to jonathan's point, in the constitution this is used for keeping track -- we're counting heads. here you have the president saying this is going to be the use of that citizenship question. >> yeah. he's basically trying to -- he's giving the case that he would make in his republican rooms, the case that was made essentially in the box of documents that was found in a republican operative's home by his daughter. this is the point. exactly as jonathan said really well. i think we need to zoom back from this and recognize that, as well, this is a republican president being willing to both show gross incompetence and confusion and basically undermine the very principles of our democracy and the constitution in order to grab power. and i think most people don't

realize how often this has happened in our history. how much this is in the republican world view a fight for them. they basically believe that they have made a demographic bet by saying we don't really care about the votes of young people. we don't really care about the votes of women unless they're married to the men we care about. we don't really care about the votes of people of color. so we're going to try to basically not count them and make the places where they live seem less populated than they are. you saw donald trump talking about all the, you know, extra votes. the -- basically there are people who don't count that shouldn't count that aren't really americans. and when the united states supreme court says you have basically lied and tried to cover up nefarious reasons for trying to do this. and then the trump white house or the trump himself comes out and says, you know, i'm not going to have this come through my commerce secretary and say

we've, you know, a very important reason for this. he just says i want this. because i want this power. he's not doing well for his case. >> we saw it on display this week. you had lawyers on the conference call trying to figure out what the president wants to do. i mean, there's a lot of idea here what the president says increasingly less important -- because it seems like they're trying to figure out what the president is thinking. >> yeah. that's why we don't have press conferences or things like that. or press briefings. you know, what is also important to note is that despite the president not having a real clue about american history and about how to actually manage the country, effectively. what he does know very well is what he has the power to do or at least that the power of the executive office. and that he can make the other agencies, he can make the government bend toward his will. even if it's unconstitutional.

even if we have to go to court and spend money and tie things up in court. i want you to do what i want and not necessarily what is best for the country. what is best for the american people. we see this in the census. we see this on a number of different issues. to the money part, you're talking about, i mean, the naacp is suing the census bureau rabot being unprepared. while we're spending a lot of time, obviously, necessarily talking about the citizenship question, there's also the issue of they're not prepared to actually execute the census in a real way which would result in undercounts and particularly communities of color. >> unwith of these trial runs when they should have done several. >> in history when it benefitted the power structure, noncitizens were counted as 3/ 5th of a

person. now they are counted as no fifths of a person. right. it's all about how do you change the rules to l joy's point? how do you change the rules to benefit yourself? >> i would add to that. it's not just the 3/5 clause, i love you brought into the conversation but noncitizens in our history, if they were white, were allowed to vote. >> that's right. >> i mean, it very much was about race. it was about who is an american. who blelongs and who counts. it wasn't just about citizenship, including in new york city where we are, in places in the midwest. we basically could walk off a boat, get on a train, and vote. even if you didn't speak english. even if you weren't a citizens. as long as you had white skin. >> and servants, for instance, in the constitution had basic voting rights. >> yeah. and connected to that, not only sort of the rights but it's also most americans don't know this is a civic thing, as well.

how people are not citizens have rights even under the constitution. and that not knowing that and believing that we shouldn't provide resources. we shouldn't provide health care, we shouldn't provide anything they have no recourse or protections under our constitution. this is reserved only for americans. >> we'll come back in a moment. first, the 7.1 magnitude earthquake in southern california. it rocked the town of ridgecrest. it's the same area that sustained a 6.4 magnitude quake on thursday. communities including richcrest asked the white house for an energy declaration. my colleague molly hunter is in ridgecrest with the latest. she's been up all night talking to folks trying to figure out what damage is done. what have you been hearing from folks in the community, molly? >> reporter: david, good morning. we have been up all night talking to a lot of people. everyone has been up all night since the quake. we spoke with one guy who felt the quake outside. warren cooper returned home to

his mobile home to find it completely slid off the jacks. the corner completely into the dirt. our crew is at a different mobile home park and they say almost every single home in that mobile home park is unlivable. we spoke with a couple of residents from a town down the road. apparently it was even harder hit than ridgecrest. they said there's no power now. there's no water. we've seen that picture with the crack in the highway. that's from trona. here, though, everyone is a little bit freaked out because the ground keeps shaking. there have been dozens of aftershocks. when we felt the 7.1, david, it shook for about five minutes because there were so many other small aftershocks between 4 and 5 that just kentucpt rumbling. when you're feeling the 5.4 when

you're on top of the epicenter, it's scary. we're outside the hospital now. the regional hospital. actually, a couple of hours ago, they brought all the patients out and started treating patients out here in the parking lot. they've since moved them back in. that's one of the things officials will be doing today is going building to building to actually look for some of those damages. the structure damage or foundational damage that may not be obvious to the naked eye like, you know, a mobile home slid off the stilts. >> molly, thank you very much. molly hunter in ridgecrest. my colleagues will bring you the latest on msnbc. a donald j. production to tanks on the mall, the fall out from the fourth and the cost of that event. next. f the fourth and the cost o that event next lor what i witnessed, but i can tell you liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i only pay for what i need. oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no... only pay for what you need. liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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i'm david gura and president trump called his fourth of july event a show for a lifetime. he stood on the steps for an hour. he wanted tanks at his inauguration. he was impressed at the bastille day parade in paris. president trump jumped to the feet. for the first time in months, he looked relaxed and to be enjoying himself. the president later called it one of the most beautiful parades i've ever seen and then he said this. >> we may do something like that on july 4th in washington.

>> and he likes his parade as much as competition. when he got back to washington, he asked for a parade of his own. there was pushback and it took nearly a year of planning to get this event underway. leading up to the event on the national mall there was no shortage of criticism as the post put it, some decried it as a reflection of trump's authoritarian impulses. the backlash was bad and so was the president's command of key moments in american history. >> our army manned the air -- it ran the ramparts. it took over the airports. it did everything it had to do. and fort mchenry under the rocket's red glare, now be victory. >> he blamed it on the rain and the tell prompter. we bring in mike. help us understand how the white house sees this event. i'm not saying whether or not it was a success but i'm curious

how they view it now in hindsight. >> reporter: well, you know, a lot of attention is being focussed on what the president said or did not say or the flub he made. a flub that lost a thousand peoples. you talked about how he wanted to do that since he saw tbastile day. the way they got around it this time. they're not saying how much it cost. and so the president on his way out of the white house yesterday stopped and talked to reporters as he often does. here are the reasons for the flub. the red coats and holding pattern over la guardia airport. you know, his reference to airports and fort mchenry. he said it was raining and the tell prompter went out. the president said he's going to see a spike in military enlistment and interest in enlisting in the military as a result of this. he even said the media loved it.

the president, obviously, is going to tout this to the heavens regardless of what everybody saw. but he said he knew the speech very well. he didn't need the tell prompter, something he mocked his predecessor for using time and time again. the rain made it hard to see and that's why he had that flub. but in the president's view, of course, that's not going to get in the way of lauding the july 4th celebration that the military hardware display he desperately wanted ever since seeing it on display in france. >> thank you. he didn't need the tell prompter because he knew the speech so well and yet made the mistakes. i was struck as he was talking about this event yesterday. clearly it was because of his ego and wanting to do this. he had the economic motivation for it saying it's going to help the economy, et. cetera.

et. cetera. your take away from i don't know if you're appearing through the bulletproof glass streaked with rain. >> first of all, for someone who cares about good tv. it was terrible television. it was terrible television. i thought it was kind of sweet that mother nature decided to -- all over his parade. but, also, when i hear somebody say that donald trump wants to boost recruitment for the u.s. military, i just cringe. i have veterans in my family. some of my dear friends who veterans who served this country honorably. that's not what donald trump did. when his time was there to serve his country in an unpopular war. he said i have to be deferred a number of different times. i have bone spurs. it's just play acting. it's play acting he cares so much about the military. it's to show his whiteness, his maleness, his strength and has nothing to do with anything he's

ever given this country. >> young people in the country should join the military. jonathan, going into the event there was speculation it was going to bed toer f fire deparo campaign. we got the video which the president tweeted well edited video itself. trump, he tweets, erases line between campaign and presidency, gets a did do over with inaugural with tanks, three, he doesn't pay a dime. help us understand how they dove tail and how the propaganda will be something we see as we move ahead to november of 2020. >> this was a campaign event. the president's plan for the campaign is to find people who agree with him who didn't vote in the last campaign and bring them to the polls. what it does is offsets his approval ratings. the universe of voters is the same, he's in trouble. he's got to draw out people and

the idea is here with something that looks not partisan and feels nonpartisan to say, look, i'm representing the country. let's get feel good behind the president. and we see some of that there. i think if you saw the broader pictures of the mall, you would see it was nothing like, you know, you would see for a big inauguration for president obama or the march on washington in 1963. these were pretty small numbers. that said, you know, it's going to be effective with the audience he's seeking to generate enthusiasm among. one other note i would make mike bacarra learned about fort mchenry. i don't recall maverick and goose jumping their fighter plane and fighting off the communists to save, you know, the united states. i don't remember that in francis scott key's epic poem.

i don't know where it came from. even a basic understanding of american history would prevent that. >> credit to your sixth grade social study's teachers. >> fourth grade. >> how much does this major in the grand scheme of things? talking about the political implications of it. the currency it might have for his campaign as we go ahead. i'm curious as you look at the criticism leading up to it. the concern leading up to it. there's a low bar for normalcy we set as far as this administration. how much did this matter? >> i think to your point what is going to matter is the image that trump has created for the people that support him. and the image he's created is that i love america. i support our troops. and, you know, all of those values that people who are die hard supporters of him. and that's the facade he's keeping up. i have no illusions that he supports the troops and sort of believes in bolstering the military except for it to be

used as his person war toys. because if he believes and supported soldiers and believed in military, they wouldn't be going through the housing crisis they are. it wouldn't be at the pay scale they are in terms of soldiers entering the military. there wouldn't be an issue of the women who are in the military facing issues of sexual assault. so if you really believe in that, so it's a fa said. it's him playing war games and not necessarily him really believing in it. so what matters is continuing to sort of build up and continue this facade into the election cycle that he, umm, is a die hard supporter of the voters he's targeting. >> these are issues that run past donald trump. we were talking about how the nation treats its veterans, whether the nation is spending enough on doing enough on housing when you're talking about sexual assault in the military. we saw kiersten gillibrand stake

her career on sexual assault in the military. that was something going on in the last administration. and so, you know, i mean, i think those are things you want to look at with regard to this president and how he's dealing with those things. i'm not sure i would look at him specifically and say this is someone who is not dealing with those and therefore he does not care about it. >> what he does with playing fast and loose with american work policy. that's playing fast and loose with people in uniform. the fact he's cozying up to dictators, ripping up our international agreements, making us less safe. that is something that i think if you look at what a military families want, they want to know if they're going to, you know, if they're going to serve, that it's for a good reason. that it's not because of someone's ego, someone's affinity for a dictator or

another. and that's the basic security that he can't provide troops today. >> we'll leave it there because of time. joe biden said the democrats swing to the left could cost him down the road. the vice president trying to set himself apart from the rivals for the democratic nomination. h for the democratic nomination.

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welcome back to "up." joe biden gave a wide ranging interview with cnn which he addressed the ongoing controversy over his position on bussing as well as where he sees

himself in the democratic party. the former vice president believes a progressive agenda will not have wide appeal when it comes to the general election. >> the vast majority of democrats where i am on issues. we've got to be aggressive and they're big ideas. the big idea on education, on health care, on dealing with the environment. i mean, i love how, you know, all of a sudden i wish i had been labelled as moderate when i was running in delaware back in the day when -- >> 80% of your party said it's center left. farther left is getting more attention. it's getting amplified more. there's a disconnect. >> look, it's center left. that's where i am. >> we'll get to the issue of bussing in a little bit later. where he sees himself in the party. he's carving out trying to find this moderate lane. we can talk about this. what do you make of that in the way he's positioning himself in

his field of 20 plus candidates. >> voters need to be fired up in order for a democrat to win the white house. in order for anybody to win the white house. voters need to feel passion about their candidate. they need to wear the t-shirts, knock on doors, quit their jobs for the last month of the campaign. they need to put their yard signs out. it has to be. it's the only thing that has worked. 100 million people did not vote in 2016. and when you look at who those people are who didn't vote, the majority of them are progressive people, young people, people of color, who would have made a difference in wisconsin, michigan, in the blue-wall states. part of the problem is that messages like the one joe biden is trying to give say i'm not willing to fight for your problems. let's do a little bit better than we've done in the past. that's not going to get people out to vote. that's not going to get people to be passionate. and i just want to say something about this moderation question. it's really important. right. i look at this through the

policy ideas. if you want more data, go to data for progress. they go deep this. here is the thing, moderates don't really exist. you've got people who are republicans, who are independents, who have, you know, want full marijuana legalization, want, you know, an end to the death penalty, or want, you know, a wall. right, i mean, these are big ideas. these are not middle of the road ideas. they don't really exist. and then, finally, i'll just say if you look at the swing voters, part of what biden said in that clip and interview, he said, you know, we took back the house and all these moderate and swing districts. these swing districts supported a wealth tax, support single payer health care, support debt-free college. these are ideas that we try to say they're in the middle or, i'm sorry, try to say they're in the left because they haven't been catered to in washington. but they're in the center of

people's concerns, worries, and fears for the future. and so any democratic party that doesn't endorse them is not going to get the hundred million people to come out and vote. >> john allen, how do you see him maneuvering through this? how uneasy is he with the issues that heather is bringing up? with what is being called left whatever. there's a lot of talk about joe biden and the institutionalist. how unaware is he? >> it's interesting he said he wishes he had been pinned as a moderate because he won election to the senate for 36 years in delaware. he won election as vice president of the united states twice. he ran for president twice before and never won a competitive primary. and so in delaware he didn't have to run competitive primaries. he went for president twice before and did poorly in democratic primaries. this is not somebody who ever had pressure on his left at all. maybe from some of his constituents at various times to do x, y, or z but never

electoral pressure on the left and called the career that was moderate, moderate democratic, maybe a little bit to the left to center. he was not a leading edge progressive on any issues when he was in the senate. sometimes people around him will say he was. it wasn't until he started positioning himself to run as president as vice president you saw him take charge on the leading edge, particularly on gay rights. we remember him coming out before president obama on gay marriage. and certainly he pushed things to the left in the senate. but he wasn't sort of a ted kennedy liberal lion at the senate in any sense, if you look at the other senators around him. >> i want to ask you about we talk about the demographics here. why isn't that message getting through? why is there so much talk about the phantom working class white voter who will be the future of the democratic party when so much data doesn't vet it out? >> one, because society has been wrapped around that person and

that category for so long. it's like we can't, you know, try to shift to focus on the growing majority of the country is, you know, it's learning curve for a rolot of folks. i think for joe biden, his problem is he's trying to run a general election campaign but has to get through the primary first. and just as both talked about, there are issues that are blind spots for him. we say him even though he has a full team and campaign around him, that i don't know if he's quite listening to in terms of what he has to do in order to move forward. and one particular piece i think he's missing is that he's been able to, in his past, as, you know, being in the senate and leadership for some time, to rely on relationships with progressives, with people of color, with othinstitutions as way to move forward. i have a relationship with the ncaa cp. i have relationships with the key leaders. and so, you know, that kind of politics allows -- you can come

to me and we can figure out something. the problem is, that we are rebuffing that form of politics going forward. and that we don't necessarily -- we don't any longer want a relationship with people in power. one, we want to be in power or at the table. two, if you are in that position, i want less of a relationship and actually want to see some product from you. i want to see some policy that has a real impact on our community and a real impact on our economy. and so that is where he has himself right now. he doesn't quite get the moment. >> yeah. >> and quite get who is going to come out in a primary election to even get you to the point of a general election. so he is still trying to appeal to maybe i can peel off some republican voters here that don't necessarily ideology republican and trump but need an excuse to vote for someone else. >> the other side of that coin, as well. up next school may be out

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what an amazing clean! i'll only use an oral-b! oral-b. brush like a pro. ten of the democratic candidates travelled to houston to speak at the national education association annual convention. each of the candidates had about 12 minutes to respond to questions from teachers on everything from charter schools to gun safety. kamala harris and vice president joe biden also pledged to change how the department of education is managed. they said they would nominate and educator with classroom experience to run the department. >> i will name someone to be secretary of education who has been a public schoolteacher. [ cheers and applause ] betsy devos need not apply. >> first thing i will do is make sure that the secretary of education is not betsy devos.

it's a teacher. [ cheers and applause ] a teacher. [ cheers and applause ] >> well, let me tell youly not be interested in grizzly bears. [ laughter ] not my interest and i come from the golden state. [ laughter ] [ cheers and applause ] my shameless plugs to my californians. under a harris administration, i promise you that the person who is nominated will be someone who comes from public schools. [ cheers and applause ] >> the issue of segregation and bussing didn't come up. back with me in new york. let me start with you about the issue of education. ten candidates going down there making that pilgrimage to the conference. you look at the top issues for democrats in a recent survey. health care 29%, climate change

25%, immigration 24%. education doesn't rank. what is your sense how important it will be for the democratic electorate and the general electorate, as well. >> i take those kind of polls with a grain of salt. they so reflect what gets media attention. but if you ask a family what keeps them up at night, what is driving their, you know, the decisions they make about where they live, what bill they have to pay first, you know, and then second and again, you know, they have to chunk it out into two pieces. it's about education. it's all about the quality of education, and it's all about the cost of education. so i think that, you know, when we were working on the issue of the rising cost of college, which was being driven by the fact that the public had pulled back. we had shifted from grants to loans around the same time our college population got more diverse and the fact states are cutting back in order to give tax cuts and spend money on health care.

you know, a political group came up to us and said we're seeing polls when asking voters who didn't vote in the midterm where, you know, the democrats lost so badly under obama. the big issue that would have gotten them to the polls is debt-free college. this is a sort of sleeper issue. there's a reason why it was such a huge part of bernie sanders' out of nowhere rise and catching fire with young people. it's a huge reason why elizabeth warren said i'm going to cancel student debt at a couple of colleges. it's because this is making or breaking not only the next generation, people my age and younger, but, you know, our parents. our grandparents who are having social security garnished in order to pay for their grandchildren's student debt and their own as they go back to school after the factories close. >> john, this is the college for all support poll from the cnbc all america survey looking at those support having college

paid for. let me ask you about what we saw in relief. in the clips we've played there. senator elizabeth warren saying what he said before. she wanted a public schoolteacher and you see the other candidates following suit. what does it say about the field, at this point. as we're familiar with her phrase "i've got a plan for that." that's an example of that happening. her laying it out there and other candidates following suit. >> she smartly grabbed a huge policy of the democratic turf. on a wide range of things. it's basically i'm going to stake out all my policy proposals early and you'll have to run to the left or right of me. people said what is she doing? she's buried in the policy stuff. she's not making herself a brand and they wake up and they're like how am i going run against her? and they're going to coopt her plans and go out there and literally heard the vice president saying what she said.

and then in some cases there are differences. i thought it was important kamala harris said i didn't make a public schoolteacher. she said i'm going to make somebody who has a record in public education. she left herself room for an administrator, perhaps. but, i mean, i think that matters. if you take somebody straight from the classroom and make them a secretary of education, that might be a big jump in job. as compared to somebody who was administratoring, you know, public schools at some point. but i think that what we've seen from warren what is surprising to us is and actually echoes something that hillary clinton did is take that policy step. get it set out there. she doesn't have to flip-flop on anything. right. she already knows what her plans are. we see all the other candidates. we see harris and biden and others struggling with day-to-day where they're going to be on policy. warn has a plan and you have to deal with it and figure out

whether you agree with it. getting back to work. june's job numbers beat expectations but the market didn't like it. t expectations but the market didn't like it (vo) parents have a way of imagining the worst... ...especially when your easily distracted teenager has the car. at subaru, we're taking on distracted driving [ping] with sensors that alert you when your eyes are off the road. the all-new subaru forester. the safest forester ever.

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and he's talking about the unexpected high jobs for month of june. he also called on the federal reserve to lower interest rates. >> we don't have a fed that knows what they're doing so it's one of those little things, but if we had a fed that would lower rate, you would have a rocket ship. >> the president has not been shy to say the least about criticizing the central bank and the man who heads it whom he appointed. president trump has applied a ton of pressure on fed chair jerome powell over the fed's decision to adjust interest rates and that was pretty unprecedented and the president is undermining the federal reserve's independence. ron insana joins us now and he's a senior analyst at cnbc. i want to talk about the back and forth that took place at the last federal reserve press conference for people who are in the weeds and not watching this, heather long asked a question of the fed chair. let's take a listen to that exchange. >> heather long, washington post. can you explain if the president

tweeters on calls you to say he would like to demote you as fed chair. >> i think the law is clear that i have a four-year term and i fully intend to serve it. >> i didn't count the words and it was a curt answer. >> help us understand the pressure he's under about the fed is a rocket shep. >> i don't know how much better they could be. we have 6.3 open jobs and if everyone was put to work we'd still have a deficit of 1.1 million people in the labor force. even at zero unemployment we'd still need more workers. the economy is fine, but slowing and there's a case for the fed -- there is a case for the fed to lower interest rates or take back that rate hike from december. what the president is suggesting and now one of his nominees is suggesting that rates should be back at zero. that's for extreme duress. that's what we saw in the great financial crisis as you know in

2008 and 2009. there is no reason to get aggressive about pushing interest rates lower and this morning, last night, the president said that the fed is the biggest problem facing the u.s. economy. that is just utterly absurd. the fed has been extraordinarily responsible and has been. what i worry about most, david is the president packing the fed with sycophants and ideologues who will do his bidding and damage the credibility. >> forgive me for laughing at that crisis line. heather mcgee. the crisis enemy this president seems to have when president obama was in office and rates were very low, citizen donald trump was very critical of the way the policies were in place. when he's president he would want to have the economy, but this is something different. >> it's something different. it's him saying, you know what? i know that in my sector of the economy low rates are extremely good. that's real estate. >> that's the way he sees the world. >> but he's very far as someone who inherited millions of

dollars and has paid very little to no taxes. >> that we know of. >> right. he's very far from the squeeze that most working families and middle class are facing and it's not just about the pay in the job, it's about the cost for the little things in life like child care and housing and health care. we have an affordable housing crisis in this country where median worker, the typical worker can't afford a house or an apartment in most of the major cities in this country. so these are the things that when people are being looking at their balance sheets and looking at their bank statements they can say, sure, i know that i can find a job driving a lyft. i can find a job working at a restaurant. i can find a job in a back office right now, but does that job pay enough to pay my bills it is not. >> she wrote this amazing piece about how difficult things are for many americans and the

president will tout it and we'll look at that number and what does that tell us and how should we tout that number as an indicator. >> where i differ with heather is the number of open jobs that pay well is extraordinary and they may not be jobs that you necessarily want. if you don't want to drive a truck, you can still make $80,000 to $100,000 driving a truck. there are cyber jobs that pay $90,000 on average and we have a skills gap and we need people retrained to get the jobs that pay well. construction job, teachers, nurse, doctors, all of those jobs are in short supply that are the laborers and workers. the jobless numbers are fine, and the president's own trade policies that are restraining global growth and weakening the u.s. simultaneously. he's always been thus far working across purposes when it comes to policies. on the one hand he has a policy attacking china and europe down

the word and brexit is coming up in october and there are external threats that would give the fed reason to cut. right now the u.s. economy is okay and we continue down the path where he's fighting everybody in the world and we'll see a very weak economy. >> the president always talks about the stock market in the 30 seconds we have left here. how resonant is that? a lot of americans don't own stocks. >> when he talks about the economy to heather's point, he's not talking about it in terms of the average person or the average household. he's talking about people that he know, real estate folks, big corporations. when he's talking about preserving jobs, he's talking about keeping companies or corporations here that would be so benevolent that they would give you a job. >> right. >> so that is how he sees the economy and not necessarily on the skills gap or the squeeze that others are feeling. >> and let us understand one salient point, the trump

organization itself has $340 million in adjustable rate debt and if rates go up that will hurt them as well. >> ron insana, jonathan allen and heather mcgee. come back tomorrow, we have scott bolden and christopher dickey. he will be here in new york with christina grier and mike pesket and that is at 8:00 eastern time. a salute to america where a salute to trump and the divisions on the national mall as a microcosm of the divisions in this country coming up on "up." coming up on "up. [ giggling ] let's play dress-up.

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♪ ♪ this is "up." i'm david gura and on thursday this was the scene in front of the lincoln memorial in d.c.. >> we come together as one nation with this very special salute to america. we celebrate our history, our people and the heroes who proudly defend our flag, the brave men and women of the united states military. >> if you couldn't make him out that was president trump behind the glass. about a mile away, john stamos hosted a capitol fourth on the front of the u.s. capitol. >> for 39 years it's been a show of the people, by the people and for the people. visitors have travelled from across our great country to the

west lawn right here the u.s. capitol from main street usa to sesame street to celebrate america's birthday. >> you can look at that contrast and you can think of the patch of land as a microcosm of this country. one group on the left and one group on the right with protesters in the middle. it was clear from the beginning that independence day meant nothing more to president trump than an opportunity to choreograph a made for television re-election, vent and give himself an obscenely expensive ego massage. he noticed there was a reviewing stand of sorts that closed off vip section near the lincoln memorial where republican party donors could sit in close proximity to the party's leader. >> the future belongs to the brave, the strong, the proud and the free. we are one people chasing one dream and one magnificent destiny. >> president trump claimed his event was for all americans and there was some relief he didn't

talk politics during his speech, but as vox points out his emphasis on the military and the fourth of july and the hardware on display and the planes that flew overhead was more moscow than washington. up with me this morning is eli mostal, and sally cohn is a progressive activist and author of "the activist of hate" a guide to repeal humanity and the co-host of the podcast unredacted and retired general gary mccaffrey joining us this morning from kansas city, missouri. general, you and i had the opportunity to talk earlier this week before this event and you spoke about where this can be situated in the culture of america today. what the back and forth, the criticism of this event meant about how we are as a country and i want to get your perspective now that this event h has passed and what does it is a about the united states today? >> part of it says nothing has

changed. mr. trump hijacked an event and sort of a narcissistic display for his own political purposes. having said that, david, the pundit group went into hysteria over the whole thing. it was essentially a long, badly delivered patriotic speech with the military theme with the flyover. the notion of tanks rolling through d.c., there were two m1 tanks and by the way, you're never going to talk to someone that loves m1 tanks more than me. you know, on static display so it actually was an okay event and there's military displays all over the country and flyovers in particular, mass parachute jumps. so the real thing was this is the first time in my memory we've had an angry fourth of july which is sort of common place now dealing with the president. >> i talked to one of your fellow generals and retired general robert scales and former

commandant of the u.s. army war college. the military has been used as potted plants, as he put it for a long time here. what's the legacy of this going to be? the fact that the president did this as you look ahead to future years? >> well, i think probably very little. what is not -- not unusual in a sense, is politicians using the armed forces as a prop. the u.s. armed forces are the most respected institution in american society for good reason. 2.1 million men and women active guard and reserve, it is very tempting for any president to wrap himself and garb himself in the armed forces. this president's done a lot of it. we have very strict laws prohibiting the u.s. armed forces from being used in political affairs. so it's very uncomfortable n dealing with this administration

and having them routinely try to use us as backdrops for the president's presentations. >> i'll turn to you with that point, with the novel thing as the general was saying and we've seen in the last few hours how the president has taken that and made it into something that will have political currency here as we head into the election. >> which i'm not sure is illegal or appropriate to use government resources to use a campaign ad. i agree with general mccaffrey. it doesn't reflect on our country at all and it reflects on him yet again as being a small, sad little man playing with his toys and oh, they won't let me have the tanks on the streets. they have to be driven in. it's just another one of a series of politicizing military space as he should. remember when he visited iraq. he made a campaign rally. they were handing out maga chairs and hats. it's pitiful. i have to say i left d.c. on

thursday before heading upstate for a couple of days and it wasn't just on the mall. there were armored personnel carriers on the streets. it was a little eerie to see. i agree with the general. it was made into a bigger deal on the mall and it was rare to see these tankish vehicles just spread around. >> how much did the speech matter? we've made fun about the line at the airports. a lot of it was the visual. so when you look at this event as it happened, what's more important to you? that visual itself and what had the most lasting effect? the visual or the speech. >> i'm going to go out on a limb and say none of it matters. >> first of all, there's this problem in our society right now and i think the general is pointing to it where we sort of react to something based on which side we're on and overdramatize it and underdramatize it and this is the sort of theater of extreme politics at the moment and this was a stupid, wasteful,

pointless display meant to as eugene robinson made and stroking massage and this president's ego and in the grand scheme of things compared to a hundred horrible other things he's done in the last week and not really that momentous or bad. it's just another demonstration of his pointlessness and lack of st st strategery. what we will remember is what he wasn't doing with crap on this. we don't know how much he spent on this display and there have been reports that it's somewhere in the millions and that's instead of giving soap and toothbrushes and toothpaste to kids in cages who are being kept away from their families and locked up in concentration camps because of this president, too. so it's ultimately, i don't want to give them a satisfaction. it's not going to go down in history and it was a crappy speech and an uneventful day and

it has an impact on people's lives. >> hear, hear. i want to get your thoughts and you had the events and the trump baby balloon and phil cott wrote, and it's not idolizing the war itself and it's idolizing those in it and that was not subject to the individuals on display and it was about the planes and the tanks and the armored personnel carrier. >> it's amazing how this desperate narcissist has made jingoism all about him anyway, right? look, i'm not your fourth of july guy? 1776 didn't do a whole lot for me, all right? so i don't really go in, and any time i see fireworks and flag waving white people and it's dangerous and so i sort of step back and as i was sitting in my backyard drinking white russians to honor america and listening to hamilton as one does, what we

saw from the president this weekend really represents a total failure on the part of the people who wrote the constitution and i'm listening to "hamilton" and thinking now the failure is complete because the thing they wanted most was to not have this demagoguery. federalist paper one, the very first thing said in defense of the constitution warned by alexander hamilton warned against demagoguery. george washington's exit address, warned against factionalism and party politics destroying america from the inside out and so when you look at trump making it exactly as you say all about him, all about the hardware as opposed to the idea of independence, it really makes you think that the very thing that the founders were terrified of, the thing that kept them awake at night is now what has happened. >> i'll have what he's having. >> the white russians in the backyard!

>> and you say george washington's farewell address was in "the washington post" and we'll get to that later in the show. >> i'll go to the general on this, as well. this was a holiday and many had time off and pulled in late and general dunford as all of this unfolded. the therein lie, a lot of people were put in an uncomfortable position. >> i don't want to give them too much credit, but they've been managing up to this. he went to paris and he said i want one of my own. they said it's going to crack the streets and there's too heavy. there's been a lot of that, on the flipside. he is using them in props. i would like to think they're uncomfortable to that. whether or not general dunn fornd would have made it a point of celebrating elsewhere rather than there, i don't know. it seems from reporting that a lot of generals didn't know what

was happening, didn't know there were two tanks there. i on u know, when general mattis was there they did a good job of managing up, when it's acting director shanahan or mike esper was there, i don't think there will be a lot of managing up. >> general mccaffrey, lastly to you i'll ask you to do an exercise in empathy there and what do you think he was thinking and not having a secretary of defense and how much does that matter? not having that civilian pushback perhaps against an event like this one? >> well, you know, traditionally the secretary of state, treasury and defense are all grand men or women of the republic. they're older, their gravity as, and we've lost that, and much of the government's significant spots are acting as low-level people and i think that makes the armed forces a giant enterprise, uncomfortable. there are only two civilians

that give instructions to the armed forces, not the jcs. it's the president as commander in chief and the secretary of defense, and by the way, mike esper is about to be knocked out of the box also. they'll have to go to another acting senator if the senate doesn't confirm him. it's a very uncomfortable situation. having said that, again, we don't want to overstate this stuff. the armed forces are under strict discipline. they're apolitical and that's the way they're supposed to act, and you know, we can count on the fact that the military will respond to the constitution and they'll testify to the congress when asked and they'll give their own viewpoints, we're going to be okay. >> on that note, general, what brings you to kansas city? do a shameless plug here on the way out, if you would. >> well, you know, this wonderful world war i muse dwum unbelievably interesting place. i'm giving a lecture on monday at the museum and helping them

do a fund-raiser on monday night. i love kansas city. it's the heart of the nation. >> up next, he declared his independence on the fourth of july, congressman justin mosh saying partisan politics are a threat to the country and he's quitting the republican party. former congressman david jolly will join us next. david jolly will join us next. i've been

politics for a while, and i

believe very strongly that it's hurting our country at this point, and i think people need to stand up for what's right, stand up for what they believe in and be independent of these party loyalties that really divide us. >> this is "up." i'm david gura and that was justin amash and he is stepping away from the gop just weeks after he argued lawmakers should start impeachment proceedings. congressman amash will inspire that he's becoming the anti-trump conservative and he could seek the 2020 election. president trump weighed in on twitter after that op ed was published. great news for the republican party as one of the dumbest and most disloyal men in congress is quitting i inexplicably in quotation marks and no collusion and no obstruction. knew he couldn't get nomination to run again in the great state of michigan. he conclude, a total loser.

pundits who distanced themselves from or left the republican party. many saying the party is not recognizable. timothy egan is a columnist in the new york times and the founding fathers would gag at today's republicans. republicans would not approve of the republican and would prefer a merging of church and state. we are joined by david jogglly d himself a former republican of the state of florida. let me start with what you read this week and how do you feel about the party today? >> justin should wear the criticisms as a badge of honor and nobody should be prouder to be criticized by this president for his own convictions. what we saw from justin amash this weekend is not a rejection of trumpism. he had largely done that, frank

thr frankly through the service in the congress and he called out a party that continues to celebrate this president. he rejected the republican's embrace of this president and you know, i sent a brief note to justin saying hey, i know it was a journey for you, and i hope you are breathing easier today. i think what he experienced what i did as well which is a bit unexpected that in rejecting trump and the republican party there's also this bit of rejection of today's partisanship, and that is not playing both sides. it really isn't. in today's republican party we have a party that failed morally and failed to protect the constitution and the ideals and we do know that the two-party system and the entrenchment continues to, rode at the founders' vision. >> sally cohn, that was vigorous nodding as the former congressman said that. >> look, no -- look, i

understand there's a certain strain of republicans. i'm obviously not a republican so i don't understand a lot of it -- just for clarification, sal sally kohn, not a republican. there is a certain vain that we'll give the guy a chance and we'll see this through and we'll even be fine with the party he's leading because we're getting the things we want. we are getting packed courts with conservatives and tax cuts for corporations and the rich on the backs of working class and poor people and there's a certain point even then all of which i find unconscionable, and that's why i'm not a republican, but there is a certain point when you do have to say when is enough enough? and when you have a president who is tweeting about the other party engaging in constant name calling is lying regularly, is attacking the press and is limiting the rights of the press. when you have a president who is

locking up children in cages and concentration camps and when you have a president who is going to re-write the census, and he will do what he wants anyway for political reasons and at a certain point even if you're a republican you have to say okay, my conscience is telling me to do something about it. good for justin amash. >> you wrote one as well when you left the party. you can't be never trump and be a republican and that's the clearest and unequivocal conclusion to which i regrettably arrive. to fight for the heart and soul of the republican party has been lost to darker angels and a darker leader. on this network and other networks there are never trump republicans who sit around the table and talk about the party and talk about where things are and a number of them have not left the republican party and i wonder how much thought you're given to why that is. if we so closely associate the

republican party to president trump, why have so few people left the party the way you and now justin amash has? >> i am so glad you asked this. justin and i come have very different ideological standpoints. he thinks the party is not rigid enough and he's a libertarian, down the line constitutionalist and i represent the purple state thinking that it is too ridge id at times, but on the fundamental issue on how the party has dealt with trump. they have not just tolerated him, they have celebrated him. throughout history we get to judge the decision making of our political leaders at times of economic crisis and the security crisis and now we face the rise of donald trump and it is fair to judge how the republican party has embraced him and celebrated him. the reason i left the party is i cannot point to a single leader in today's republican party and think that one day i would associate with them or trust their leadership or decision making.

i think the republican party has been lost for a generation. i cannot see returning to a coalition of republican voters that would include today's republican leaders and be able to explain this to the daughter that would question me as to why i left last fall. it is hard to suggest that you can be never trumper and still a republican because this fight has already been won and has been celebrated by the victors. justin amash's most purely defined constitutional conservatives who have always pushed back on these types of failures in ideology have instead as a freedom caucus embraced and celebrated this press and congratulations justin for saying enough is enough. >> we will leave it there. former congressman and former republican david jolly. >> joe biden and kamala harris go toe to toe on civil rights and joe biden says it is getting

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welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. i'll let eli get in. you wanted to get in. we were out of time. you have something to say and i want to give you the chance to say it. >> never trumpers, welcome, right? i need you to be never republican, okay? because it's not enough for you

guys to say oh, we don't like trump, but then not go down the line and vote against his policies. so it's, you know, if you're going to be never trump then i need you to stand with amy mcgrath who is run against mitch mcconnell and m.j. haggar who is running against jovn cohn corny susan running against brett cavanaugh collins and if you want to be never trump -- not the -- i don't like trump and i don't need the furrowed brow. i need your actual votes. >> the purity test is not timed. this is the white eye walkers and the night king. we have to come together, the southerners and the wildings and you know how we will know when we've gotten back to normal when we hate each other. for now i accept the george conways and the tom nichols and the more the merrier. >> i got lost in that metaphor.

>> joe biden and senator kamala harrisa ever the two of them went head to head in the nbc news debate on the issue of bussing. joe biden has defended his position and he called bussing an asinine concept. he told chris cuomo the attacks left him disappointed. >> i was prepared for them to come after me and i wasn't prepared for the person coming after me, she knew beau. >> kamala harris, on wednesday a reporter asked her to elaborate her position on bussing and it was to remove some of the daylight between these two candidates. sally kohn, let me turn to you this was the subject on the campaign trail. this has become an issue as joe biden said about segregation and he's tried to keep it narrowly focused and as you mentioned about the debate --? yeah. bussing is a very complicated issue and positions on all sides

and he's being strategic in term was just trying to make this about bussing. let's be very, very, very clear. biden is on the record multiple times in written form and spoken form saying ostensibly and often explicitly that he is against segregation, but he is not necessarily for integration. that is his record. so that applies to bussing and education and it applies to a whole host of things and he's right to be criticized for that record, plain and simple, number one. number two, if this guy can't handle being criticized for his political record by kamala harris, he thinks that's too personal? this whole thing about elect ability and he's the guy that can go up best against trump, look at this, this fairly legitimate clear-cut and definitely legitimate attack on his actual record, there's not even name calling here.

this is baseless trump, right? and he can't handle it and meanwhile, kamala harris is looking more and more electable every single day. grow up, joe. >> let's ask you about the evolution of strategy, joe biden wanted to look ahead and he doesn't want to talk about the past and he wants to talk about the future. we still see that in that interview with chris cuomo. i don't know why we're talking about the past. we should be talking about issues in the future. sally mentioned it's the corpus and not evidence and the material that we have -- the material that we have of him saying this stuff, that can't be ignored. >> we all knew what was anything and he didn't know and that was inexplicable about the vice president and he had the best people around him and it's not staff all of the time. it was shocking. it was shocking on a number of levels and it was shocking on ele electablity and he's digging for it since and i don't want to speak for anyone else, but joe

biden, i don't think he's a racist. i don't think he has a racist bone in his body. yes, he's 76 years old. he was in the 18 is the at a time when things were horrible, but the question is can a white man of that generation whether it's him or burdenernie sanders they the right person to address race echl or sexism in this day and age and i think that's what's coming to light? this counter argument that's the press making it about kamala, give me a break. she's 54 years old. she was bussed. i mean, the idea that her answer on current bussing is a counter is absolutely nonsense. >> he's not going to speak for you as well. do you want to take another try at that rhetorical question that philip just asked? >> i don't think he's a racist and i don't know him personally so it's not for me to say. he hasn't figured out how to talk about race.

he hasn't figured out how to talk about his own record and people need to remember and sally brought it up exactly rid. this did not start with bussing. this started with joe biden trying to pal around with segregationists and trying to justify palling around with's gr segregationists. he has an entire world view that he's going to be elected and mitch mcconnell is going to be, like, let's go get a scotch and figure out this government thing and that's not how it works anymore, joe and his inability to accurately talk not just about his own record, but about his future. i understand he wants to play it like mark maguire and say he's not here to talk about the past, how will he do about the current segregation that we face in will skoos today, right? because today i live in westchester county, six blocks north of me the school district is 88% white. where my kid goes to school the district is 75% nonwhite.

that's six blocks away. what is joe biden going to do about that? because what kamala is saying is that, no, she's not talking about bussing might kids to the white school. i'm not talking about that, but she's talking about using federal power to try to break the joe biden's word, de facto segregation that we still see in new york, in chicago and los angeles county is one of the most segregated school districts in the nation. kamala is using federal power to address that. joe biden is talking about, i don't know, having a beer and having a handshake agreement with mitch mcconnell. >> he can't be -- he can't be mad when someone asks him about this. >> of course, not. >> if you're someone who feels that you have a great record it is uncomfortable and you want to strangle them. he's running for president. he was the vice president. he knows how it goes, and to prove that he can successfully be a president to address these things. he can't get mad every time someone asks him a question no matter how silly it is.

>> i wonder what trump's going to do? first of all, it's true and this is a present tense problem. our will skoschools today, they segregated than they were 20 years ago and the current president or the next president will have to do something about this. i want to address that there's not a racist bone in his body thing. look, part of the issue is that our conversation thankfully on race has progressed, so i don't think he's an overt racist in the sense of a kkk member or something like that, but we now should be, need to be talking about race in a more subtle nuanced and endemmic and systemic way and talking about unconscious bias and the fact that whether you mean to or not, if you grew up as a white person in this society, you ingested and breathed in certain ideas and certain kind of hate and demeaning and dehumanizing of people. our next president needs to be a person who can progress on those issues. so it's not to say that he couldn't have in the past, but

he needs to show that people can learn and get better. >> in fairness, his most recent job was working for the first african-american president in eight years so i get the unkofrns unkofr unconscious bias. >> you can't wrap yourself in barack obama's skin like you're buffalo bill. you have to have something else besides having a black friend in order to be president in a way that's going to speak to african-americans. >> the george costanza cable guy? >> just like lots of sexist men have wives daughters. -- okay. >> we'll take a break. more "up" on msnbc in just a moment. in just a moment oh my, this heinz mayonnaise is so creamy,

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heinz mayonnaise, unforgettably creamy. welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. several 2020 candidates are having trouble getting support from voters. joe biden and kamala harris are in a virtual tie when it comes to support from black americans and candidates are earning 0% of the vote from african-americans

and one is mayor pete buttigieg. an officer shot and killed a black man in the mayor's hometown of south bend, indiana and this week a special prosecutor has been named to eversee the investigation. eric logan was breaking into cars and he approached an officer with a knife and the family disputes that claim and the shooting was not recorded by the camera. the camera was not on. he's dealing with the fallout with that incident including this tense exchange in iowa this week. >> i have a solution for you, and i'd like you to make a comment. just tell the black people of south bend to stop committing krims and doing drugs. >> sir, i think the racism is not going to help us get out of this. the fact that a black person is four times as likely as a white person to be incarcerated for the exact same crime is evidence of systemic racism. it is evidence of systemic

racism and with all due respect racism makes it harder for police officers to do their job, too. it is a smear on law enforcement. >> that moment in that backyard is drawing comparison to an important moment during the 2008 presidential election. >> i can't trust obama. i have read about him and he's not -- he's not -- he's a -- he's an arab. he is not -- >> no, ma'am. no, ma'am. he's a -- he's a decent family man, citizen that i just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign is all about. he's not. thank you. thank you. >> eli, just let me get your reaction with the late senator john mccain, but that moment, you heard the audience there gathered for that backyard town hall and shouting down the guy who asked that question and you

saw the response from the mayor, as well. >> i think he's trying. my problem with where he is right now. put it like this, if i came on your show and i did my whole bit and your face was, david, white people listen to your show? i guess i have to do my homework. you can't show up and start running for president without having already thought through what your appeal does going to be to the african-american and the latino community and what your appeal would be to the people of color and how you're going to go about -- you have to sign up african-american validators and surrogates and all of the stuff that he didn't do because he didn't know that people of color make up a huge part of the primary process and that's my problem. he's trying to catch up to something that he should have been part of the price of entry into the presidential election. now that he's trying, i thought his answer on the debate was good. he didn't get the job done. he took personal responsibility for that, right?

the problem is when you really think about police brutality and criminal justice reform and what needs to happen, a mayor of a town has so much more power than the president of the united states, right? like, i'm in new york and when i lived in the city i voted for de blasio specifically because he said that he was going to do something to end stop and frisk which is a thing that a mayor can do and not a president. so the fact that buttigieg hasn't quite gotten his house in order in south bend, that's as much power as he's going have to deal with this issue and the fact that he hasn't gotten it done there doesn't make me feel great about him being able to get it done as president when his power is so much more removed from the officers on the ground. >> he was using some of the words that you were using in his response. >> fantastic. i want white politicians, by the way, in either party, to talk about the structural and systemic ills we have as a

country that has a -- that was literally built on racism, and what they're going to do about it, and doesn't just run to win an election, but is also running to transform the consciousness of a nation. i think there's always a bigger -- how you run also matters. i also want to say there's something underneath what you brought up and there are two theories of how democrats win and this is an ongoing battle and one is that you fight for those four swing voters. i think there's four at this point, and they all live in, like, ohio and western pennsylvania and we -- and we, the party officially cares way too freakin' much about these four voters and that's the theory of victory and the other theory of victory is you actually recognize that the present and future of the democratic party is people of color, new immigrants, women and progressive whites and pro

dominantly people of color and you actually stop taking them for granted and stop assuming because you can run for president and assume all these things and you know what? not only is that not true. that's messed up. and that's this sort of continuum, if you will, white supremacist implication of our politics that the only voters who matter and thus the legitimate way to win an election is to win a majority of white voters. not only is that no longer going to be politically true, that's messed up. >> philip, i want your reaction to this as well and not just the backyard exchange and the way he's dealt on it. >> i'll put a finer political point on these guys. you're not becoming the democratic nominee with 0% of blacks. just not going to happen. what is strange, to your point, which is he's known he's going to run for a while and has done nothing to address this and it started when he fired the south bend first african-american police commissioner and this has been bubbling up and what's

interesting, i wins when i watch these. it's interesting you guys think he's trying. i think he's trying, but when i watched that it's almost like watching joe biden in the previous. he doesn't feel any more quipped as a white man as bernie or someone else and that's not an attack on the other white men in the race, but i think i've said it to you before, this might not just be the year of the woman, it might be the year of the not white man, and i think we're seeing that in the debate -- >> can we have that more than just one year? >> go ahead, lastly to you. >> why he fired that black commissioner. they don't know why. >> i don't know why. >> he fired him because the police commissioner was accused of tapping the phones of white officers trying to catch them saying racist things to other people. so he was trying -- so the police commissioner was trying to build a case that his white underlings were being racist by tapping their phone lines and it

was, like, oh, my god, he fired him. the power of the mayor, and the mayor has incredible power over the police force in their town and we have not seen evidence that buttigieg has used that power, you know, correctly. >> effectively. lastly. >> he has very positive, futuristic speaking style and it's strange to watch him getting bogged down in this. the fact that he can't solve it and there was an image from a couple of weeks ago where he read a statement in the middle of -- it's this crumpled piece of paper and it looked like he had sent a staff toer to read i under duress and it's contrary to who he is and who he is building himself as the future when he can't deal with the president in the past. >> up next, hear the mike pence mystery. the president says he will tell us in a couple of weeks.el l

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why did the vice president cancel his trip the other day? . >> you'll know in about two weeks. there was a very interesting problem that they had in new hampshire that i can't tell you about it. it had nothing to do with the white house. there was a problem up there, and i won't go into what the problem was but you'll see in about a week or two.

>> that is president trump teasing reporters about vice president mike pence's abruptly cancelled trip to new hampshire. we'll know the reason in two weeks time, adding to the any fact surrounding all of this, a top police official in salem, new hampshire, tells "the washington post" he was unaware of any security threat that would have caused the vice president to cancel his trip. sally, you're laughing. >> listen, it's just the threat that happened isn't a threat. it's a pence specific threat. i know exactly what it is. is that there were a lot of single unaccompanied gay women and pence couldn't be there in the state of new hampshire because, you know, both the gay thing and the women by themselves without male protectors. he was in an unsafe environment for pence, and that's what. >> just like the wait don't tell me segment. >> he said that trump always

says you'll know in two weeks. is there anything more than that? what explains the weirdness? >> i love solving these kind of puzzles and figuring out. i have no idea. this is really really weird. it's just strange because -- >> trips aren't scancelled. >> trips like this aren't cancelled. he wouldn't have gotten to the plane. >> aliens. >> aliens landed in nashua, they asked to be taken to the leader. they were going to send pence because you wouldn't show the aliens trump. that would just be stupid. they were going to send pence, and they were like wait a minute. >> hay heard aliens and misunderstand extra terrestrial, and mrs. pence won't allow him to be alone with aliens. >> especially with those single female gay ail ens.

>> maybe pence thought he was going to get impeached at some point, there's a great episode, john h you have to tell pence if he's going to be needed to come out of the bull pen and save the republican party. >> i actually do think there's going to be an interesting answer here. >> you do? >> what if he's not going to be the vice presidential candidate. >> it might not make sense but i think there's a specific answer. >> i'm going to bet it does not make sense. we're going to leave it there. thank you very much for being on the show. a little off the rails but i think in a good way. write in, let us know your thoughts. raining on his parade, criticism pouring down on president trump's fourth of july celebration. that is straight ahead on a.m. joy.

that does it for me today. i'll be back at 8:00 eastern time. thank you very much for watching "a.m. joy" with joy reid. i don't think he understands, this is america's birthday, not his birthday. >> donald trump is handing out tickets to his big donors, that's a campaign event. >> reducing our nation to tanks and shows of muscle just makes us look like the kind of loud mouth guy at the bar. >> we can be confident and strong without having to flaunt our military muscle.

>> good morning, and welcome to "a.m. joy", live from new orleans. well, this week on america's birthday, known as independence day or simply july 4, donald trump threw himself a party. ever since he saw that the french president has a parade, it's called bastille day and the dictator of north korea has a parade, it's called authoritarianism, and that they get to have tanks and people marching in front of them and saluting them, and all of that stuff, he's wanted to have one too. he tried to co-op other holidays like veterans day and memorial day, but the adults in the military kept pushing him back. no more. donald trump finally got his special donald trump parade, rolling tanks down the streets of your capital, flying air force planes over his head while he gave an odd speech about the airports, the continental congress took control of during

the revolutionary